Rants and Raves

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4780528]

If Grandpa was a doctor in NYC over 100 years ago and you remember him describing this to you, are you 80 years old? Did Grandpa live to 110 and told you the horrors of the 1918 pandemic when you were a little boy?[/QUOTE]If he is 80 years old, you need to take a break and listen to anything he has to say. Having experienced "history" first hand is a lot more accurate than your copying / pasting skills from news articles for which there's no clear method of accuracy and theorizing results in something I did in the toilet this morning.

Anyone remember elementary school where you'd all line up, the teacher would whisper something into the first kid's ear, then everyone was told to repeat it verbatim? Last kid in line got it all wrong. That's the best you can get with regurgitating news feeds.

Pick up a rifle, get on the front lines and report back with something accurate and fresh.

[QUOTE=Niteluvr;4780556]more accurate than your copying / pasting skills from news articles for which there's no clear method of accuracy and theorizing results



Pick up a rifle, get on the front lines and report back with something accurate and fresh.[/QUOTE]No copy and paste at all. If you think the effects the 1918 pandemic had on WW 1 is only in theory 100 years later and there's no clear method of accuracy, your reading skills and intellectual curiosity are lacking. I carried a rifle, tough guy.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4780575]No copy and paste at all. If you think the effects the 1918 pandemic had on WW 1 is only in theory 100 years later and there's no clear method of accuracy, your reading skills and intellectual curiosity are lacking. I carried a rifle, tough guy.[/QUOTE]No copy / paste? That's all you do. Tell me everything you've posted or observed personally on this topic that ain't been copy and paste.

Did I challenge anything you said about WWI (not 1, you idjit)? Perhaps you should have interviewed my great-grandfather on the front lines in Europe during the Great War. I have many hand-written, framed letters written by him to his then-gf and future wife, describing the details of his time in the trenches.

What kind of 'rifle' did you carry? Give me the correct name and tell me how to clean it blindfolded. And do not copy and paste.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4780528]

If Grandpa was a doctor in NYC over 100 years ago and you remember him describing this to you, are you 80 years old? Did Grandpa live to 110 and told you the horrors of the 1918 pandemic when you were a little boy?[/QUOTE]For those who are apparently lacking in math skills and understanding family history. I just turned 60, my grandfather was born in 1890 which would have made him 27-29 during the Spanish Flu. I remember him well and even spent 2 months living with him before I shipped out for Army Basic Training. He died at age 92. So the story told is possible and not assume the writer is in their 80's.

Then again, many people are showing either they cannot do their own math, are doing that crazy new math, or just trust the warped math coming out of fed and state government folks.

[QUOTE=Niteluvr;4780604]No copy / paste? That's all you do. Tell me everything you've posted or observed personally on this topic that ain't been copy and paste.

Did I challenge anything you said about WWI (not 1, you idjit)? Perhaps you should have interviewed my great-grandfather on the front lines in Europe during the Great War. I have many hand-written, framed letters written by him to his then-gf and future wife, describing the details of his time in the trenches.

What kind of 'rifle' did you carry? Give me the correct name and tell me how to clean it blindfolded. And do not copy and paste.[/QUOTE]You think anecdotal evidence is more valid than actual facts and data? You don't think WW 1, thats right 1, had any effect on the second and third wave of the spanish Flu?

A M-16A1 and I can't tell you how to clean it blindfolded, war hero.

Where did I copy and paste anything from an newspaper opinion piece or a new article?

You want to cower in fear inside tho facts tell you if you're healthy and under 60 your risk is minimal at best, do it.

Someone here once referred to you as an old drunk. At that time I wondered why. I don't anymore.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4780808]For those who are apparently lacking in math skills and understanding family history. I just turned 60, my grandfather was born in 1890 which would have made him 27-29 during the Spanish Flu. I remember him well and even spent 2 months living with him before I shipped out for Army Basic Training. He died at age 92. So the story told is possible and not assume the writer is in their 80's.

Then again, many people are showing either they cannot do their own math, are doing that crazy new math, or just trust the warped math coming out of fed and state government folks.[/QUOTE]It's possible his grandpa was a young doctor in the early 1900's and what he describes actually happened, but when someone frames all re the China Virus from a political perspective, spits out propaganda and warns of mass death, second and third waves, as they tell half truths or plain bullshit, they have a political aim. As mentioned, they toe the party line. Spit out talking points from some hot sheet found in their inbox. I don't believe a word that comes out of their mouth.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4780528]Did your Grandpa explain to you the effects WW 1 had on the second and third waves. WW 1 at that time the largest global migration in history. How more US soldiers died of Spanish Flu than in battle. Sick soldiers packed into troop trains / ships with the healthy. Packed in the trenches to fight, dying on top of each other. Sick packed into the field hospitals. Packed into the hospitals once they made it back to the states spreading it all around. Hundreds of thousands of asymptomatic carriers returning home and spreading disease. He tell you how Wilson's political advisors told him not to send more soldiers to Europe because too many were dying but his military advisors told him if he didn't Germany would own Europe so he kept sending them. Grandpa tell you how effective antibiotics and testing were? Probably not because they had neither. Wouldn't have penicillin for another 25 years. There's a lot more to this story.

If Grandpa was a doctor in NYC over 100 years ago and you remember him describing this to you, are you 80 years old? Did Grandpa live to 110 and told you the horrors of the 1918 pandemic when you were a little boy[/QUOTE]First of all my grandfather was born in 1888. Which made him 30 at the time off WW I. So yeah. Second while he had a draft card, his was a high number. Understand WW I had minimum impact, for two reasons.

1. It was already raging in the US before the troops even deployed.

2. The second wave hit in December of 1918. US troops were still in Europe or on their way home.

When he passed he was 85 in 1973. Yes I was 10. So there is your math.

The impact of returning troops was pretty minimal with regard to the 2nd wave.

[QUOTE=Niteluvr;4780604]No copy / paste? That's all you do. .[/QUOTE]This is copy and paste: Forty years ago another flu from Asia killed a population adjusted 250 thousand Americans and life went on as normal.

'In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the United States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving December 1968 and peaking a year later. It ultimately killed 100,000 people in the USA, mostly over the age of 65, and one million worldwide.

Lifespan in the US in those days was 70 whereas it is 78 today. Population was 200 million as compared with 328 million today. It was also a healthier population with low obesity. If it would be possible to extrapolate the death data based on population and demographics, we might be looking at a quarter million deaths today from this virus. So in terms of lethality, it was as deadly and scary as COVID-19 if not more so, though we shall have to wait to see.

"In 1968/69," says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, "the H3 N2 pandemic killed more individuals in the USA Than the combined total number of American fatalities during both the Vietnam and Korean Wars. ".

Nothing was closed by force. Schools mostly stayed open. Businesses did too. You could go to the movies. You could go to bars and restaurants. In fact, people have no memory or awareness that the famous Woodstock concert of August 1969 planned in January during the worse period of death actually occurred during a deadly American flu pandemic that only peaked globally six months later. There was no thought given to the virus which, like ours today, was dangerous mainly for a non-concert-going demographic.

Stock markets didn't crash because of the flu. Congress passed no legislation. The Federal Reserve did nothing. Not a single governor acted to enforce social distancing, curve flattening (even though hundreds of thousands of people were hospitalized), or banning of crowds. No mothers were arrested for taking their kids to other homes. No surfers were arrested. No daycares were shut even though there were more infant deaths with this virus than the one we are experiencing now. There were no suicides, no unemployment, no drug overdoses attributable to flu. '.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4780808]For those who are apparently lacking in math skills and understanding family history. I just turned 60, my grandfather was born in 1890 which would have made him 27-29 during the Spanish Flu. I remember him well and even spent 2 months living with him before I shipped out for Army Basic Training. He died at age 92. So the story told is possible and not assume the writer is in their 80's.

Then again, many people are showing either they cannot do their own math, are doing that crazy new math, or just trust the warped math coming out of fed and state government folks.[/QUOTE]My grandfather was born in 1888. I was born in 1963. He passed away in 1973. The math is pretty straight forward.

I am totally confused at the lack of basic comprehension skills and concern by some of the posters on this thread. There is an abundance of evidence that while this is not the 1918 flu, it is not influenza either. Why this is compared to the 1918 pandemic, is simple. Because if we followed the social interactions like they did 100+ years ago, then yeah we could potentially lose millions of fellow Americans.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4780885]This is copy and paste: Forty years ago another flu from Asia killed a population adjusted 250 thousand Americans and life went on as normal.

'In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the United States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving December 1968 and peaking a year later. It ultimately killed 100,000 people in the USA, mostly over the age of 65, and one million worldwide.

Lifespan in the US in those days was 70 whereas it is 78 today. Population was 200 million as compared with 328 million today. It was also a healthier population with low obesity. If it would be possible to extrapolate the death data based on population and demographics, we might be looking at a quarter million deaths today from this virus. So in terms of lethality, it was as deadly and scary as COVID-19 if not more so, though we shall have to wait to see.[/QUOTE]You sort of left off some info.

There were a few important events occurring that overshadowed this pandemic.

1. Vietnam War.

2. Upcoming Apollo 11 launch / Moon Shot.

3. Robert Kennedy and MLK assassinations.

4. Warren Investigations into the JFK assassination.

5. The Race Riots in summer of 1968.

And this pandemic really did not stand out compared to regular influenza seasons for the period.

From the NIH / NCBI.

[URL]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2374803/[/URL]

Similarity Between Pandemic and Nonpandemic Influenza Seasons.

With the notable exception of the 1918 pandemic, each influenza pandemic season was less lethal than the prior one, reflecting the overall seasonal trend in influenza deaths.

Compared with nonpandemic seasons, the 1957-1958 and 1968-1969 pandemics do not stand out as exceptional outliers, nor were these pandemics visually discernable from nonpandemics in seasonal (Figure 1) or monthly (Figure 2) influenza mortality graphs.

In fact, although nonpandemic influenza seasonal death rates never exceeded prior pandemic seasonal death rates, many nonpandemic seasons were more deadly than subsequent pandemics.

For example, the 1941-1942,1942-1943,1943-1944,1944-1945,1945-1946,1946-1947, and 1952-1953 nonpandemic seasons were all deadlier than the 1957-1958 pandemic season.

Similarly, the 1959-1960 nonpandemic season was almost as deadly as the 1968-1969 pandemic season (Table 1).

[QUOTE=Jims2321;4780920]You sort of left off some info.

There were a few important events occurring that overshadowed this pandemic.

1. Vietnam War.

2. Upcoming Apollo 11 launch / Moon Shot.

3. Robert Kennedy and MLK assassinations.

4. Warren Investigations into the JFK assassination.

5. The Race Riots in summer of 1968.

And this pandemic really did not stand out compared to regular influenza seasons for the period.

From the NIH / NCBI.

[URL]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2374803/[/URL]

Similarity Between Pandemic and Nonpandemic Influenza Seasons.

With the notable exception of the 1918 pandemic, each influenza pandemic season was less lethal than the prior one, reflecting the overall seasonal trend in influenza deaths.

Compared with nonpandemic seasons, the 1957-1958 and 1968-1969 pandemics do not stand out as exceptional outliers, nor were these pandemics visually discernable from nonpandemics in seasonal (Figure 1) or monthly (Figure 2) influenza mortality graphs.

In fact, although nonpandemic influenza seasonal death rates never exceeded prior pandemic seasonal death rates, many nonpandemic seasons were more deadly than subsequent pandemics.

For example, the 1941-1942,1942-1943,1943-1944,1944-1945,1945-1946,1946-1947, and 1952-1953 nonpandemic seasons were all deadlier than the 1957-1958 pandemic season.

Similarly, the 1959-1960 nonpandemic season was almost as deadly as the 1968-1969 pandemic season (Table 1).[/QUOTE]Exactly. A virus from China killed a pop adj 250 k Americans and life went on. Crime, murders, wars, protests, govt investigations and a massive concert attended by 400,000. Restaurants, bars, sports leagues, business' stayed open. No lockdown quarantines

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4780838]You think anecdotal evidence is more valid than actual facts and data? You don't think WW 1, thats right 1, had any effect on the second and third wave of the spanish Flu?

A M-16A1 and I can't tell you how to clean it blindfolded, war hero.

Where did I copy and paste anything from an newspaper opinion piece or a new article?

You want to cower in fear inside tho facts tell you if you're healthy and under 60 your risk is minimal at best, do it.

Someone here once referred to you as an old drunk. At that time I wondered why. I don't anymore.[/QUOTE]You still don't know how to abbreviate World War One? It is WWI and World War Two is WWII. And it's "An" M-16 A1, not "A" M-16 A1. Were you absent during first grade?

Who is cowering in fear about anything? Obviously not me and I haven't worn a mask yet. I do keep one in my truck though, in case it becomes mandatory for the general public.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4781050]Exactly. A virus from China killed a pop adj 250 k Americans and life went on. Crime, murders, wars, protests, govt investigations and a massive concert attended by 400,000. Restaurants, bars, sports leagues, business' stayed open. No lockdown quarantines[/QUOTE]You are still missing the point. If you had read the entire article. Then you would have seen the part about the vaccines have little or no impact on the influenza death.

Implications for Influenza Vaccines.

Historical influenza mortality data contain many relevant implications for influenza vaccination campaigns.

The overall decline in influenza-attributed mortality over the 20th century cannot be the result of influenza vaccination.

Because vaccination did not become available until the 1940's and was not widely used until the late 1980's.

This rapid decline, which commenced around the end of World War II.

Points to the possibility that social changes led to a change in the ecology of influenza viruses.

I found that declining mortality rates occurred simultaneously with expanded influenza vaccine coverage since 1980.

Especially for the elderly (65 years and older). However, recent research suggests that vaccination is an unlikely explanation of mortality trends.

A 2005 US National Institutes of Health study of over 30 influenza seasons "could not correlate increasing vaccination coverage.

After 1980 with declining mortality rates in any age group. ".

Other research has reviewed available international studies of inactivated influenza vaccine effectiveness and efficacy.

One study concluded that "evidence from systematic reviews shows that inactivated vaccines have little or no effect on the effects measured. ".

Considered in light of the data presented here, these studies imply that other causes–such as an improvement in living conditions.

Or naturally acquired immunity from similar strains of influenza virus–may have been partially responsible for the declining trends in recorded influenza mortality.

The main reason we were able to bend the curve from an exponential growth in death rate.

Is because we took away the ability of the virus to spread because of social distancing.

Shutting down common gathering areas (churches / restaurants / stadiums / concerts / mass transit).

Did it stop it. No it allow our medical system to avoid complete collapse, it allow our medical system to start to catch up. We have now been about 2 weeks in Georgia easing of restrictions.

As you can see # of cases is increasing, despite Gov. Kemp's claim to the contrary.

[URL]https://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/health-care/map-shows-latest-us-coronavirus-case-totals-state/[/URL]

May 8: 32,177, including 1,997 in Hall; 1,400 have died statewide, including 28 in Hall; NGHS is treating 123 patients with confirmed cases and has discharged 406.

May 7: 31,600, including 1,958 in Hall; 1,352 have died statewide, including 27 in Hall; NGHS is treating 134 patients with confirmed cases and has discharged 394.

May 6: 30,738, including 1,914 in Hall; 1,327 have died statewide, including 27 in Hall; NGHS is treating 134 patients with confirmed cases and has discharged 388.

May 5: 29,852, including 1,836 in Hall; 1,294 have died statewide, including 26 in Hall; NGHS is treating 135 patients with confirmed cases and has discharged 364.

May 4: 29,103, including 1,712 in Hall; 1,204 have died statewide, including 23 in Hall; NGHS is treating 125 patients with confirmed cases and has discharged 348.

May 3: 28,602, including 1,695 in Hall; 1,177 have died statewide, including 22 in Hall; NGHS data is not updated on the weekends.

May 2: 28,331, including 1,694 in Hall; 1,175 have died statewide, including 22 in Hall; NGHS data is not updated on the weekends.

May 1: 27,492, including 1,481 in Hall; 1,165 have died statewide, including 22 in Hall; NGHS is treating 146 patients with confirmed cases and has discharged 318.

April 30:26,260, including 1,332 in Hall; 1,132 have died statewide, including 21 in Hall; NGHS is treating 153 patients with confirmed cases.

April 29:25,644, including 1,238 in Hall; 1,095 have died statewide, including 20 in Hall; NGHS is treating 159 patients with confirmed cases.

Does that look like the number is trending downward? And those are the reported cases. Who knows how many are asymptomatic.

[QUOTE=Jims2321;4781385]You are still missing the point. If you had read the entire article. Then you would have seen the part about the vaccines have little or no impact on the influenza death.

Implications for Influenza Vaccines.

Historical influenza mortality data contain many relevant implications for influenza vaccination campaigns.

The overall decline in influenza-attributed mortality over the 20th century cannot be the result of influenza vaccination.

Because vaccination did not become available until the 1940's and was not widely used until the late 1980's.

This rapid decline, which commenced around the end of World War II.

Points to the possibility that social changes led to a change in the ecology of influenza viruses.

I found that declining mortality rates occurred simultaneously with expanded influenza vaccine coverage since 1980.[/QUOTE]Seems Gainesville has become a new hot spot for C-19 in Georgia, per my local newspaper. I'm curious why. Did the Gainesville Times reveal any clues for the uptick?

[QUOTE=Niteluvr;4781671]Seems Gainesville has become a new hot spot for C-19 in Georgia, per my local newspaper. I'm curious why. Did the Gainesville Times reveal any clues for the uptick?[/QUOTE]Hey Nite, it's undoubtedly because of the Chicken processing plants. The majority of the workers are Hispanic, most likely living in close quarters with multiple family members. Both the working and living conditions are very much a predisposing factor to transmission.