"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=Coolhand2;1188271]This has been my standard approach. I have taken it as a means to avoid misunderstanding. My thought was that if I wanted subsequent meetings that clarity was best. The problem is that it may be keeping me from having the first meeting. You are unknowingly competing in a auction without the opportunity to rebid. Someone comes along and offers more and you are toast. Hence the no-shows, which has been a problem for me. As with most things, how do you achieve the proper balance?[/QUOTE]I am thinking that if we lose girls by bidding too low and also lose girls by not naming any number maybe we should either A. Not name a number; or B. If we name a number it should be high enough to foreclose (most) competition. What do you think? A lot of girls will show up even if no number is named.

[QUOTE=Golfcart; 1188396]. . . . , it is not "Escorts."

Excuse me, but the present discussion of [I]how to get the girl to the hotel and in bed earlier and how to avoid being outbid[/I] Is best achieved by seeing an internet escort in the first place. So why is this approach even being considered with a civie? It won't work except with a girl in serious distress. We shouldn't want a girl in distress because we are taking advantage and we will be resented. Nothing good will come from that.

Rather, we should find a girl and meet her for coffee under circumstances where moving things to an unplanned dinner is possible. If things go well at coffee move it to dinner. Put something [I]meaningful[/I] In her purse at dinner [I]without saying a word, without looking at her[/I]. Let her make the next move and the clothes will come flying off in appreciation. That is an "arrangement." We allow her to [I]give to someone who is not a taker[/I]. We become important rather than resented.

This involves a little risk, of course, but the reward is much greater.

Be careful, some of you will be playing with fire. Real escorts know the no call, no contact rules. Civies don't. You can't get away from a girl who knows how to find you. [/QUOTE]Golf, this is a very classy approach and when you have time to work it you will, I am sure, wind up with an extremely satisfying relationship. Thanks for explaining it.

[QUOTE=Varoom; 1188123]Lit:

Another angle that I have cultivated similar to SB's, are dancers. Not the avg ones but those that seem to have their act somewhat together. Void of chemcials, or at least any hardcore habits, that like to hook-up for private parties outside of the establishment. I know this is not the same thing but it functions as such for me. A little more personal contact than a typical escort (also cheaper) and an ongoing fuck if I want it. The crop of a few that I have cultivated here are early to mid 30's and fine in the specimen and performance dept. Just another angle that seems to be much easier than the legwork of finding the gals like Lit and the gang are doing. [/QUOTE]I'm impressed by this. I love dancers but the four I've taken out have all cost me a huge amount of moola in the VIP before they agreed to meet at a hotel and three of them scared the hell out of me with their drive towards entanglements. One girl wanted a baby (and got one from another customer) , another wanted a father for her two kids and one was 19, gorgeous and hysterical with strong self-destructive urges. I think my approach to them was all wrong as it was borderline romantic. None was in Virginia. I'm not in the clubs much these days and I don't look for take-out when I am.

It sounds like you have a winning strategy for finding and fucking girls who are both cute and fit.

I don't know how all these sb sites work, I only know how the one I'm on works and also the one promoting extra-marital affairs that advertises everywhere these days.

I don't think you'll get anywhere as a geezer trying to bed young honeys just posting your profile and sitting back, waiting for girls to contact you.

I admit I never advertised much on CL in the old days or BP and I'm not skilled at that. If you are good at writing those kinds of ads then probably what I have say doesn't apply to you.

Some sbs seem to troll nationally and internationally. I assume somebody gets to fuck them sometime but the out of geographic range unsolicited emails I've received all appear to me to be mass mailings. The girl either hopes to find a billionaire like the one who married Anna Nicole Smith if she just sends enough emails, or they are schemes to get you to send money with no real prospect of ever meeting the girl. Just my opinion based on a few email exchanges.

The procedure that seems to work for me is this: 1. Search for girls within xx miles of your zip code. 2. Screen for characteristics that matter to you (like age, weight, race, marital status, etc.).3. Screen for recent online activity. All this can be accomplished in a few minutes. Now you have a set of xx girls to work with in the geographic area you want who claim to look like what you want and who have been online recently looking for somebody.

Go through the set and find the girls you like best and contact them by email. Try to figure out what will appeal to them. It's ok to use a generic email but its best to add some words that show you have actually read the girl's profile. Send out a bunch of them at the same time so you don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Don't be afraid to follow up if you get no response at first.

Where your profile or "ad" comes in is that when the girls get your email they will look at it. It has to make them at least willing to communicate with you and not turn them off. How you do that is up to you but I've found shorter is better. Girls don't usually like direct talk about sex, body parts, etc. Inmo, at least not at first.

Most girls will ask for a photo in their first response if they have any interest after looking at your profile. I tried to avoid this but I eventually uploaded a couple of pix that I altered to make unrecognizable but which clearly show my age and general body type. The pix are in a private gallery that can only be accessed with a password.

When I give the girl a password I usually ask her a question that challenges her determination to enter into an sb / sd relationship. I find this makes her more likely to respond after looking at the photos.

[QUOTE=Literal2; 1188701]I'm impressed by this. I love dancers but the four I've taken out have all cost me a huge amount of moola in the VIP before they agreed to meet at a hotel and three of them scared the hell out of me with their drive towards entanglements. One girl wanted a baby (and got one from another customer) , another wanted a father for her two kids and one was 19, gorgeous and hysterical with strong self-destructive urges. I think my approach to them was all wrong as it was borderline romantic. None was in Virginia. I'm not in the clubs much these days and I don't look for take-out when I am.

It sounds like you have a winning strategy for finding and fucking girls who are both cute and fit. [/QUOTE]"both cute and fit"

And the funny thing is, I am neither. But they must view me as safe and an easy way to accomplish whatever their goal is. Perceived to be CA$H. But a key element that I think is part of it is, I am very nice to them (non-threatening) and also fun to be around. (based on the girls' feedback).

I don't do any VIP room stuff, in fact maybe only twice have I even had a private dance. I simply talk to them, buy them the cheapest drink on the menu, maybe 15 or 18 bucks, and once I hit upon someone that is a decent conversationalist and someone that I would want to see outside of there, I merely work into the convo some questioning about partaking in "private parties". I assume that "they do it" but it doesn't hurt my feelings if they say NO, but it only takes one yes to get your weiner wet. Lets face it, these gals are already selling themselves and all I want is some private time with them. They have needs, both physical and financial, and I can meet one of them for sure, maybe both on a good day. The only issue that I would have with any of these encounters is on a few occassions I have had girls who request meetings a little too often, after the initial one or two encounters. Via text msgs. (Oh I want to see you. How about Friday morning, blah, blah). Trying to keep that contact to a minimum is really the biggest challenge. In fact I have had 3 requests this week to meet today. Rent must due this week, ya think?

I think sb14 makes 9 sbs who have opened their pussies for me since I started targeting sbs late last year. In at least half of these cases, there has been zero discussion of any specific amount of allowance. Yesterday was typical. At the end of the session I put her allowance in her jeans. She didn't even count it.

I try to deflect specific discussions of cash by saying "I don't like to talk about this, I'm sure you'll be happy" or something like that. Again we return to the question of whether these girls think of themselves as escorts. Most of the ones I've run into don't. Just my experience for what it's worth.

[QUOTE=Varoom; 1188733]"both cute and fit"

And the funny thing is, I am neither. But they must view me as safe and an easy way to accomplish whatever their goal is. Perceived to be CA$H. But a key element that I think is part of it is, I am very nice to them (non-threatening) and also fun to be around. (based on the girls' feedback).

I don't do any VIP room stuff, in fact maybe only twice have I even had a private dance. I simply talk to them, buy them the cheapest drink on the menu, maybe 15 or 18 bucks, and once I hit upon someone that is a decent conversationalist and someone that I would want to see outside of there, I merely work into the convo some questioning about partaking in "private parties". I assume that "they do it" but it doesn't hurt my feelings if they say NO, but it only takes one yes to get your weiner wet. Lets face it, these gals are already selling themselves and all I want is some private time with them. They have needs, both physical and financial, and I can meet one of them for sure, maybe both on a good day. The only issue that I would have with any of these encounters is on a few occassions I have had girls who request meetings a little too often, after the initial one or two encounters. Via text msgs. (Oh I want to see you. How about Friday morning, blah, blah). Trying to keep that contact to a minimum is really the biggest challenge. In fact I have had 3 requests this week to meet today. Rent must due this week, ya think? [/QUOTE]Three requests to meet this week? Not too shabby. Well done.

Thank you for explaining how you do this. I learn something every day on this website.

A pro would be a lot more direct and focused with a specific quid pro quo; she shows up, sex is had, cash is exchanged, and bam, you're done, and even if you're a regular, each time is still a one-off deal.

A sugardaddy / baby is a looser arrangement more like an easy girlfriend paired with a generous boyfriend; you may have dates and do things together other than sex, but there's still the implicit understanding that she's being so "good" to you mostly because you're being so "good" to her and vice-versa.

A pro is likely making her living that way with multiple clients, whereas a sugarbaby may have a real job or schooling or may be a "rent girl" who's put up in an apartment with all expenses paid but still exclusive to her sugardaddy.

A "sugarship" seems about halfway between an actual relationship and outright prostitution, and some may veer more towards one side or the other, but not quite far enough to call it really just one or the other.

I'm going to jump into the discussion after watching from the sidelines.

I'm also try to establish "SB type" relationships with dancers at clubs. Unlike escorts I get to see what she looks like and see if their is any chemistry prior to the event. The downside is that it takes while to cultivate over many visits. I have worked on some dancers sporadically for over a year before closing the deal. I have a handful that have become regulars and a number that were not worth repeats.

My current regulars almost all took a while to develop, but are hot and very into it.

Not a bad option if you have the $'s, are a gentlemen with a good sense of humor. I'm mid-40's and not bad looking, but I'm not a twenty something stud.

I like dancers!

Wow Mad. You are very patient. Over a year to close the deal.

You mention you are in your 40's and not a bad looking guy.

I don't have the patience or the time to jack with these gals for that time span. I'm in my early 60's, nothing more than avg looks at best, puffy around the middle. So I'm not impressing anyone in that respect. What that all adds up to is I don't think I am going to whoo them off their feet; so I don't really try that hard. It is a numbers game speaking to a lot of gals, getting a sense of who fits my profile of acceptable candidates and if they do, I merely ask for an outside appt. It is a yeah or nay as far as I am concerned, or maybe a phone number from them to discuss it later, or meet for lunch to see where we can go from there. It is not a case of me going back time after time to ink a deal here. Not that detailed of a transaction at all for me. We either agree to meet and get necked, or we agree that we won't. Ther than possibly a lunch or a call later, in some cases.

One las tthing. Relative to the younger good looking guy vs the older not so hottie. Of the two the older guy is a lot less threatening. There is little chance that these gals are falling for some old geezer, they are merely having a need met and there is little mystery beyond that. Just how it seems to make sense and work for me, anyway.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax; 1189025]I'm going to jump into the discussion after watching from the sidelines.

I'm also try to establish "SB type" relationships with dancers at clubs. Unlike escorts I get to see what she looks like and see if their is any chemistry prior to the event. The downside is that it takes while to cultivate over many visits. I have worked on some dancers sporadically for over a year before closing the deal. I have a handful that have become regulars and a number that were not worth repeats.

My current regulars almost all took a while to develop, but are hot and very into it.

Not a bad option if you have the $'s, are a gentlemen with a good sense of humor. I'm mid-40's and not bad looking, but I'm not a twenty something stud.

I like dancers! [/QUOTE]

SB13 showed up on schedule for a drink. I had asked her to a hotel but she wanted this first. I'm glad she did. She wore sweats, is about 25 as she claims and has the face of a hound. Much worse than her pix. Big boobs and squashy ass from what I could tell. Even Mr Johnson asked, what the fuck are we doing here? It's a good thing sb14 took care of him the day before because he can get unreasonable if he hasn't had pussy for a few days. She said I was her second sd. I gave her a little sugar for her babysitter as I said I would and told her to get in touch later. It will have to be a true pussy emergency before I see that girl again.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax; 1189025]I'm going to jump into the discussion after watching from the sidelines.

I'm also try to establish "SB type" relationships with dancers at clubs. Unlike escorts I get to see what she looks like and see if their is any chemistry prior to the event. The downside is that it takes while to cultivate over many visits. I have worked on some dancers sporadically for over a year before closing the deal. I have a handful that have become regulars and a number that were not worth repeats.

My current regulars almost all took a while to develop, but are hot and very into it.

Not a bad option if you have the $'s, are a gentlemen with a good sense of humor. I'm mid-40's and not bad looking, but I'm not a twenty something stud.

I like dancers! [/QUOTE]I like dancers too and you get to inspect some high quality goods very thoroughly before you commit to anything. But I had the same long run up that you describe and I'm not doing dancers at the moment.

This dancer tech is good stuff. Thanks for describing your experiences.

[QUOTE=Varoom; 1189146]Wow Mad. You are very patient. Over a year to close the deal.

You mention you are in your 40's and not a bad looking guy.

I don't have the patience or the time to jack with these gals for that time span. I'm in my early 60's, nothing more than avg looks at best, puffy around the middle. So I'm not impressing anyone in that respect. What that all adds up to is I don't think I am going to whoo them off their feet; so I don't really try that hard. It is a numbers game speaking to a lot of gals, getting a sense of who fits my profile of acceptable candidates and if they do, I merely ask for an outside appt. It is a yeah or nay as far as I am concerned, or maybe a phone number from them to discuss it later, or meet for lunch to see where we can go from there. It is not a case of me going back time after time to ink a deal here. Not that detailed of a transaction at all for me. We either agree to meet and get necked, or we agree that we won't. Ther than possibly a lunch or a call later, in some cases.

One las tthing. Relative to the younger good looking guy vs the older not so hottie. Of the two the older guy is a lot less threatening. There is little chance that these gals are falling for some old geezer, they are merely having a need met and there is little mystery beyond that. Just how it seems to make sense and work for me, anyway. [/QUOTE]Vroom, do you ask multiple girls if they will do private parties on one visit to a club? Does management ever warn you off when you do this? When the girls say no, are they offended?

SB15 never responded to the lunch invitation for yesterday she asked me for. I expect she will be back in contact eventually because I think she's a pro or semipro.

SB16 is 27, slim, a health care services provider, she says. She want to meet first in the hotel bar today but knows I have booked a room for us at the hotel. Her voice is intelligent and feminine and she has a nice laugh. Not much to go on but I think Johnson will find her acceptable. I don't have a lot of time so my plan is to spend no more than 15 minutes in the bar.

SB3 asked for a hotel meet for next weekend. I agreed but won't make any arrangements unless she stays in touch throughout next week. What a cock tease. Johnson wants access to her though. Badly.

[QUOTE=Spitfire; 1188973]A pro would be a lot more direct and focused with a specific quid pro quo; she shows up, sex is had, cash is exchanged, and bam, you're done, and even if you're a regular, each time is still a one-off deal.

A sugardaddy / baby is a looser arrangement more like an easy girlfriend paired with a generous boyfriend; you may have dates and do things together other than sex, but there's still the implicit understanding that she's being so "good" to you mostly because you're being so "good" to her and vice-versa.

A pro is likely making her living that way with multiple clients, whereas a sugarbaby may have a real job or schooling or may be a "rent girl" who's put up in an apartment with all expenses paid but still exclusive to her sugardaddy.

A "sugarship" seems about halfway between an actual relationship and outright prostitution, and some may veer more towards one side or the other, but not quite far enough to call it really just one or the other. [/QUOTE]I think this is about as good a definition as I've seen. The folks that say all sbs are really pros seem to be saying all women who are motivated at least partly by money are pros. That includes gold diggers and women who marry a guy for his money which includes a lot of women. There are many different kinds of sbs. Look at the difference between the kind of sb Golf is looking for and the kind I'm looking for. Look at the dancers Vroom and Max are getting. The sbs Spit and Cool pursue don't sound like escorts to me. Two of my sbs, sb13 and sb8 probably would be escorts if they were better looking, but they would starve as escorts even though they are available to be fucked. SBs are different, like the man says.