Rants and Raves

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;5505983]Regardless of how many ways it was proven you all still would not believe it. Several military from his admin have states the same.[/QUOTE]And no matter how many times you say it, that doesn't "prove" it. I am all for the truth and a proof one way or the other would be great. Please help us all out and give some citations (from credible sources would be swell) that shed some light on who these military might be and what they said.

I think a lot of us would like better information. I now I would and you seem to have it. Please share.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;5505983]Regardless of how many ways it was proven you all still would not believe it. Several military from his admin have states the same.[/QUOTE]Trump's plan included. Should the Taliban not co-operate fully. The US would respond with massive force until they did. The world including the Taliban knew President Trump meant what he said. The world also knows Joe Biden is a spineless Puppet.

[QUOTE=ComTech42;5505518]The United States is on the verge of collapse. [/QUOTE]You're probably right. Even after trillions of dollars printed, latest consumer sentiment numbers are the lowest in 10 years. GFC was 10 years ago. Future economic expectations are also lowest in 10 years. Bonus UE benefits end in 2 weeks. Inflation hasn't been this high in 20 years. Mortgage rates then were 10%. If inflation continues and rates need to rise accordingly, the monthly payment for good credit on a $120 k home will be the same as is for todays $600 k home. Even after trillions printed GDP estimates are being lowered. Inflation growing faster then the economy. Stagflation destroys an economy built on ZIRP and ever rising paper assets. The Biden admin has shown the world its inability or reluctance to project US power even when the lives of 10 k+ Americans and 80 k+ Afghan allies are at extreme risk. Winning WW II and the destruction of Europe's manuf capabilities gave the US the benefit of the US dollar being the worlds reserve currency creating a constant demand for the currency and an estimated profit of nearly 1 trillion annually. If the US continues to print such massive amounts of dollars and is no longer capable or willing to project their power, why should reserve currency status remain? If that goes, collapse is too mild of a term for what will happen to US.

[QUOTE=ILuvEmall;5505707]As I've said many times, you really need to look at the data from other countries to get a more realistic view. I would trust the data coming from Israel much more than the data coming from here as 1) they are months ahead of us on the vaccination campaign and have much more advanced data, and 2) they have not shown the propensity to make nearly as many stupid and intentionally misleading statements as the disinformation campaign that this administration has embarked on. That said, I think the data has always shown the vaccines have utility in symptomatic amelioration. This may make them worthwhile for the elderly or people with underlying conditions, but it certainly does not justify a mass vaccination campaign, and certainly not for children. Here's a more in-depth study from Israel that lays out the Pfizer vaccine's effectivness against "severe illness":

[URL]https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-covid-graphs-prove-vaccines-works-delta-pfizer-1.10101640[/URL]

I note this:

"For those under the age of 60, the rate of severe illness among the unvaccinated stood at 2. 4 cases per 100,000 people 2. 7 times more than the 0. 9 per 100,000 among those who are fully vaccinated. " Now, I'm not denying the vaccines show effectiveness against "severe illness", and even for this age bracket, 2. 7 x is nothing to scoff at. However, unless I miscalculate that, the % rate for severe illness for the unvaccinated for those under 60 stands at. 0024%! Even for those 70-79, where the factor goes to 10 x, the risk would be. 0208%. And that is only "severe illness", not death. That's practically nothing, and for me, does not warrant the risk of taking the vaccine, with its unknown long-term effects, and its known short-term risks. Others should be free to assess their own risks, although the risk that these vaccines are leading to variants by their leaky nature should be factored into that equation.

I think history will eventually show this pandemic is being terribly mismanaged, and the long-term effects will be suffered for years to come (in several different fashions).[/QUOTE]Every credible source I can find indicates a mortality rate for non-elderly adults like 100 times higher than your claimed serious illness rate. The facts are the facts. One you start cherrypicking only the sources that most align with your views, while taking them out of context in ways that might be misunderstanding what they are talking about, you aren't dealing with facts anymore. Of which speaking of the facts are that there are no known serious short or long term consequences for the vaccine despite 100's of millions of shots given out, but direct demonstrable short and long term effects for the disease proper, the latter of which gets more dire with each passing day.

Do you have the actual math you used to derive your numbers? Because frankly I don't think its possible for it to have been derived from the data there. You need more than just serious illness rates by age and vaccination, you are also need to know the population by age and vaccination rates by age as well, probably also the overall case rate by age as well. Its also fundamentally an exercise in futile because Israel's cases are spiking dramatically (new cases per 100 k doubled in the last 10 days) and there will be an inherent and uncertain time delay between when cases happen and when serious illness, hospitalization, and death happen due to those cases.

Meanwhile I see you are continuing to play the 100% selfishness card and be completely indifferent to how being unvaccinated makes more likely to spread it to more vulnerable people. Its pathetic how far the USA has fallen, from the days in which people willingly volunteered to fight in WWII despite the major risks to life and limb it imposed, to people unwilling to accept the safest most effective and natural form of healthcare possible even if only to ensure their grandpa doesn't die a painful death as they gargle on fluid filled lungs. I bet that these same people don't have the slightest concern about medication or surgery that are far less safe. There are literally people taking cow dewormers, a product with no known healthcare benefits Covid-19 or otherwise and untested on humans, rather than just take the friggin vaccine. Its madness.

[QUOTE=ComTech42;5506513]Trump's plan included. Should the Taliban not co-operate fully. The US would respond with massive force until they did. The world including the Taliban knew President Trump meant what he said. The world also knows Joe Biden is a spineless Puppet.[/QUOTE]HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHA!

NO!

[URL]https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/timeline-of-u-s-withdrawal-from-afghanistan/[/URL]

After making that deal the Taliban continue to care out attacks and Trump did NOTHING about it, do your research better next time. 😂.

[QUOTE=ComTech42;5506513]Trump's plan included. Should the Taliban not co-operate fully. The US would respond with massive force until they did. The world including the Taliban knew President Trump meant what he said. The world also knows Joe Biden is a spineless Puppet.[/QUOTE]Amen and amen and the blind fools who supported this spineless scrotum sack know it too now that's too late. We tried to tell you but you labeled us racists, insurrectionists, white supremacists, anything you could throw at us to divert attention away from the real truth that you ignored for god knows what reasons. Some of you who support or supported this fraud are true anarchists (and you know who you are too) but most of you were caught up in the lies the media told you about Trump and thus were easily swayed and manipulated away from what the monsters who hid behind Mighty Joe intended to do to this country and to us once they gained power. What we have witnessed this week was once unimaginable but now even the corrupt media that put him in power has no choice but to address it. We all see it. The problem is that too many of you did not and now we all must pay for the inevitable catastrophes that will surely follow. This level of incompetence is unprecedented and the level of stupidity exhibited now at the highest levels of our government are so insane that the only conclusion is to believe that this has all been planned in advance. This is just the beginning.

[QUOTE=TheRabbit;5506660]HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHA!

NO!

[URL]https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/timeline-of-u-s-withdrawal-from-afghanistan/[/URL]

After making that deal the Taliban continue to care out attacks and Trump did NOTHING about it, do your research better next time. 😂.[/QUOTE]What attacks? No casualties in the last 18 months with a force of 2500 in place. Do you just lie because lying is like breathing to you? I ask knowing that there will be no real coherent response from you as always. I ask to just make the point with those who can think rationally and clearly, things that most clearly exclude you. The Taliban feared Trump reprisals if they didn't behave but of course CNN and others never told you that. Are you an anarchist or just a complete fool?

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;5505983]Regardless of how many ways it was proven you all still would not believe it. Several military from his admin have states the same.[/QUOTE]Trump's plan included. Should the Taliban not co-operate fully. The US would respond with massive force until they did. The world including the Taliban knew President Trump meant what he said. The world also knows Joe Biden is a spineless Puppet.

[QUOTE=ComTech42;5506880]Trump's plan included. Should the Taliban not co-operate fully. The US would respond with massive force until they did. The world including the Taliban knew President Trump meant what he said. The world also knows Joe Biden is a spineless Puppet.[/QUOTE]HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHA!

NO!

[URL]https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/ti...m-afghanistan/[/URL]

After making that deal the Taliban continue to care out attacks and Trump did NOTHING about it, do your research better next time. 😂.

[QUOTE=TheRabbit;5506949]HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHA!

NO!

[URL]https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/ti...m-afghanistan/[/URL]

After making that deal the Taliban continue to care out attacks and Trump did NOTHING about it, do your research better next time. 😂.[/QUOTE]When confronted with the truth do a Hillary laugh. So predictable Dilbert.

[QUOTE=Bullett64;5505625] Stop being a right-wing fanatic and try actually listening to other points of view.[/QUOTE]Do what the old man says. Don't be a right wing lunatic and start listening to the rational other side when they tell your fanatical ass that Trump pissed on horers in Russia. Putin has it on tape and is blackmailing him. Now Trump's a Russian spy. Russia put bounties on US soldiers heads and Trump did nothing because he's on tape pissing on horers. Trump's lawyer Cohen's going to take him down. Big bad ass Comey and Big dick Mueller coming for Trump. They're going to send Trump to prison. Orangeman going to be wearing Orange jumpsuit. Listen to what Kamala says. Don't trust or take the vaccine. It's Trump vaccine. Orangeman bad Impeach. Resist. Joe Biden will bring America back. He's presidential. Has decades of foreign policy experience. They know he'll lead the world to peace and prosperity. Steady and competent leadership. Our allies will embrace and love Joe. Not make fun of him.

Mask up motherfuckers. Nancy and the wealthy elites don't have to but your 2 year old kid does.
https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/1429469022542864387?s=20



Come on, man. Don't be a right wing fanatic. Listen to the common sense from the Anti-Trumpers

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;5508295]Do what the old man says. Don't be a right wing lunatic and start listening to the rational other side when they tell your fanatical ass that Trump pissed on horers in Russia. Putin has it on tape and is blackmailing him. Now Trump's a Russian spy. Russia put bounties on US soldiers heads and Trump did nothing because he's on tape pissing on horers. Trump's lawyer Cohen's going to take him down. Big bad ass Comey and Big dick Mueller coming for Trump. They're going to send Trump to prison. Orangeman going to be wearing Orange jumpsuit. Listen to what Kamala says. Don't trust or take the vaccine. It's Trump vaccine. Orangeman bad Impeach. Resist. Joe Biden will bring America back. He's presidential. Has decades of foreign policy experience. They know he'll lead the world to peace and prosperity. Steady and competent leadership. Our allies will embrace and love Joe. Not make fun of him.

Mask up motherfuckers. Nancy and the wealthy elites don't have to but your 2 year old kid does.
https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/1429469022542864387?s=20



Come on, man. Don't be a right wing fanatic. Listen to the common sense from the Anti-Trumpers[/QUOTE]Do you have reading problems, comprehension issues, or are you just stupid?

I said to listen to the other side. I never said you have to blindly follow everything that is said, which by the way, seems to be exactly what you do for your side of the argument.

Here is a shocker for you: not everything that your side says is correct, just as everything the other side says is incorrect.

This is true no matter which side you are on. Polarization without reasoned thought is the biggest challenge we face as a society today. You really need to brow up and pretend to be an adult.

[QUOTE=Bullett64;5508780]Do you have reading problems, comprehension issues, or are you just stupid?

I said to listen to the other side. I never said you have to blindly follow everything that is said, which by the way, seems to be exactly what you do for your side of the argument.

Here is a shocker for you: not everything that your side says is correct, just as everything the other side says is incorrect.

This is true no matter which side you are on. Polarization without reasoned thought is the biggest challenge we face as a society today. You really need to brow up and pretend to be an adult.[/QUOTE]I'm surprised to hear from you after this last response:

[QUOTE=Bullett64;5500089]You are either simply ignorant (intentionally or not and / or stupid (again, either intentionally or not), but you are certainly arrogant and dangerous, whether to yourself, those around you, or the general population at large.

And that IS intentional on your part.

I can no longer be bothered to even read your posts. Good luck with your health; you are going to need it.[/QUOTE]A bizarre reply to my question asking you to give examples regarding your statement accusing me of being a liar. But that's okay. You're of advanced age and in cognitive decline. I get that. Let's move on to the matter at hand.

So which is correct, Trump did / didn't piss on horers in Moscow, Trump was / wasn't a Russian spy? Anti Trumpers like yourself didn't have major policy differences w / Trump but allow yourselves, seek out even to be mentally triggered by his personality, the media and stories made up by the media, their lies repeated over and over again. There was / is nothing to listen to the other side about. What are the major policy differences to debate? You want open borders, US dependence on China manuf our drugs, PPE, etc? A ten trillion dollar going to save the world green new deal? Everyone stays at home w / o a job and gets paid? MMT money printing? I don't think you do.

What you are doing, Bullet, is confessing through projection. It is you who is the triggered lunatic, the fanatic that you accuse others of being. It is you who help create and facilitate the polarization you speak to. Trump didn't piss on hoarers in Moscow. Trump isn't a Russian asset. And Orangeman is not bad. He just triggered you. Why does Trump trigger you so?

[QUOTE=Bullett64;5508780]Do you have reading problems, comprehension issues, or are you just stupid?
[/QUOTE]Yes.

I think part of the problem is Hamlet doesn't like to wear the hard helmet they gave him due to embarrassment, and he doesn't like anything between him and god. Put on the helmet dude. We'll laugh at you but it will help with the falls from that scout scooter you ride around on with a trump flag.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;5510803]I'm surprised to hear from you after this last response:

So which is correct, Trump did / didn't piss on horers in Moscow, Trump was / wasn't a Russian spy? Anti Trumpers like yourself didn't have major policy differences w / Trump but allow yourselves, seek out even to be mentally triggered by his personality, the media and stories made up by the media, their lies repeated over and over again. There was / is nothing to listen to the other side about. What are the major policy differences to debate? You want open borders, US dependence on China manuf our drugs, PPE, etc? A ten trillion dollar going to save the world green new deal? Everyone stays at home w / o a job and gets paid? MMT money printing? I don't think you do.[/QUOTE]You cannot take a random set of examples, subtract it from the totality of life, and conclude that the remainder is the same as your actual set. In non-math terms, you can't select a few examples and conclude that everything is ljust the same.

Any one of us can find some glaring examples of poor decision making, incorrect facts, misunderstandings, and pure falsehoods. Those examples do not make up the whole picture as you well know. Hunter's laptop? Who knows, but does it really matter any more than Trump paying hush money to women he slept with? Not to me, as neither impacts running the country, foreign policy, or the national debt, etc. We as a country are deeply emerged in a partisan fight over the foibles in life, when we can better spend our time working TOGETHER for the common good.

You are not completely right. I am not completely right. You are also not completely wrong just as I am not completely wrong. Any time you wish to discuss an issue, I am willing to do so calmly and reasoned manner. Just let me know where you want to start.

Please don't begin with "Trump preeing on horses" as it will be a very short conversation.

Work reading.

[URL]https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/america-s-tortured-domestic-politics-are-hampering-its-foreign-policy/ar-AANHERa?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531[/URL]

Yes, its CNN. No, you don't have to agree with any of it. Yes, you do need to read it with a reasoned and open mind.

Finally, someone convicted of felony voter fraud.

[URL]https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/candidate-pleads-guilty-in-alleged-florida-vote-scam/ar-AANGWZG?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531[/URL]

You have something else to put in your accomplishment column, the single deadliest day for our men and women in uniform in 10 years in Afghanistan! You spineless pu $$why!.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;5515409]You have something else to put in your accomplishment column, the single deadliest day for our men and women in uniform in 10 years in Afghanistan! You spineless pu $$why!.[/QUOTE]Official release from the White House.

[QUOTE=CrestWood87;5515427]Official release from the White House.[/QUOTE]Its a little more complicated than you are making it.

The presumptive leader of Afghanistan is Mullah Baradar, who was imprisoned by Pakistan in 2010 and released as part of the deal then President Trump made with the Taliban in 2018. He then became the chief negotiator for the Taliban, resulting in the agreement (again with the Trump administration) to remove all US forces from Afghanistan by May 1, 2021.

There was no planning by the Trump administration to make this happen.

When he lost the election, President Trump lost interest in pretty much everything except getting it overturned and refused to coordinate any change-over support to the Biden administration, which he did not recognize.

President Biden was presented with a fait accompi regarding Afghanistan. The process was underway and in President Trump's own words, "They cannot stop it. ".

So the evacuation was going to happen. And it is happening. It was assumed that the Afghan forced could hold off the Taliban for six months. This turned out to be a very bad assumption indeed. The country folded in a matter of days, changing the entire dynamic of how the withdrawal would happen.

Now it seems that ISIS is also involved making things even more difficult. I truly believe that the forces on the ground are doing everything within their power to extract every one that they can. Some people cannot be located. Others have refused to leave. Some are being detain or have been arrested by the Taliban. So we will not get everyone out. Anyone who thinks we can is simply naive. But to say that President Biden has turned his back on them is simply disingenuous. It is not his best moment by any means, but he was put in a no-win position by President Trump who should share well over 50% of the blame.

[QUOTE=CrestWood87;5515427]Official release from the White House.[/QUOTE]That fucken "Palace" should have been gone, and all in it! Fucker, wait until this weekend when USA men, Woman, left behind, and you see the pics of bodies, parts?

Show us your back as you walk away from us, Joe! One more time!

Do you really thing the Taliban or Isis would be acting this way if Trump was still president? They were not that stupid. We held them at bay with only 2,500 troops for a few years.

[QUOTE=Bullett64;5515517]Its a little more complicated than you are making it.

The presumptive leader of Afghanistan is Mullah Baradar, who was imprisoned by Pakistan in 2010 and released as part of the deal then President Trump made with the Taliban in 2018. He then became the chief negotiator for the Taliban, resulting in the agreement (again with the Trump administration) to remove all US forces from Afghanistan by May 1, 2021.

There was no planning by the Trump administration to make this happen.

When he lost the election, President Trump lost interest in pretty much everything except getting it overturned and refused to coordinate any change-over support to the Biden administration, which he did not recognize.

President Biden was presented with a fait accompi regarding Afghanistan. The process was underway and in President Trump's own words, "They cannot stop it. ".

So the evacuation was going to happen. And it is happening. It was assumed that the Afghan forced could hold off the Taliban for six months. This turned out to be a very bad assumption indeed. The country folded in a matter of days, changing the entire dynamic of how the withdrawal would happen.

Now it seems that ISIS is also involved making things even more difficult. I truly believe that the forces on the ground are doing everything within their power to extract every one that they can. Some people cannot be located. Others have refused to leave. Some are being detain or have been arrested by the Taliban. So we will not get everyone out. Anyone who thinks we can is simply naive. But to say that President Biden has turned his back on them is simply disingenuous. It is not his best moment by any means, but he was put in a no-win position by President Trump who should share well over 50% of the blame.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;5515856]Do you really thing the Taliban or Isis would be acting this way if Trump was still president? They were not that stupid. We held them at bay with only 2,500 troops for a few years.[/QUOTE]Yes, I do. It was President Trump who released 4000 cof their leaders from prison and it was President Trump who negotiated the "Peace" agreement with them, an agreement so bad that even under the current environment they have not violated. And it was President Trump who drew our forces down to 2,500, a number too small to stop anything. This would have occurred regardless of who was President now. When President Biden took office, President Trump gloated that "the process cannot be stopped." He was correct and he would not have been able to stop it either.

And it was President Trump who failed to plan for the eventual withdrawal that he created because he was too busy trying to overturn the election.

He just dumped the whole mess into President Biden's lap.

President Biden is not without fault either. His intel people either failed to recognize, or failed to inform him, or he failed to accept the fact that the Afghan army would capitulate in days rather than months and to thereby plan accordingly for the withdrawal.

It didn't help that President Trump's idea (which was never formalized as an OPLAN) never even considered removing Afghans who worked for us, which I find to be unconscionable.

If you truly believe that President Trump would have done thing s better just because he said so, I have just wasted a couple hundred words.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;5505140]Along with the 15,000 Americans and 80,000 Afghan allies abandoned in Afghanistan, we are completely fucked.[/QUOTE]With four days to go, they have airlifted over 100,000 people out of Afghanistan.

Do tour numbers indicate that if you were in charge, you would have left over 5,000 of them (and counting at the rate of approximately 12,000/ day) behind?

[QUOTE=Bullett64;5515977]President Biden is not without fault either. His intel people either failed to recognize, or failed to inform him, or he failed to accept the fact that the Afghan army would capitulate in days rather than months and to thereby plan accordingly for the withdrawal.

[/QUOTE]The part that bothers me is that the US knew years ago that Afghan soldiers only cared about collecting a paycheck, not giving a shit about the cause (paraphrasing Gen. Clark). Same thing with the NVA and VC in Vietnam, and we know what a cluster fuck that evacuation was. Why haven't we learned that agreements with the enemy never work? Really pisses me off that the US essentially has done the same thing again, fully knowing the circumstances beforehand. I blame leadership and, If I were the CINC (Biden), heads would roll. At least the forces we have on the ground are doing their best to get people out.

[QUOTE=Niteluvr;5516603]The part that bothers me is that the US knew years ago that Afghan soldiers only cared about collecting a paycheck, not giving a shit about the cause (paraphrasing Gen. Clark). Same thing with the NVA and VC in Vietnam, and we know what a cluster fuck that evacuation was. Why haven't we learned that agreements with the enemy never work? Really pisses me off that the US essentially has done the same thing again, fully knowing the circumstances beforehand. I blame leadership and, If I were the CINC (Biden), heads would roll. At least the forces we have on the ground are doing their best to get people out.[/QUOTE]You are referring to the ARVN, not thr NVA or VC, but I get your point. The US does indeed make this mistake over and over again. I blame it on the fact that we change administrations every 4-8 years, losing a lot of the people with knowledge in vital areas in the process, and that we jump into fires with all good intentions, but without a firm goal or exit strategy.

[QUOTE=Bullett64;5516957]You are referring to the ARVN, not thr NVA or VC, but I get your point. The US does indeed make this mistake over and over again. I blame it on the fact that we change administrations every 4-8 years, losing a lot of the people with knowledge in vital areas in the process, and that we jump into fires with all good intentions, but without a firm goal or exit strategy.[/QUOTE]Correct on ARVN, their official name, but NVA is how most vets refer to them in my veterans groups. The CIA had separate agreements with the Viet Cong, another poor ROI. Those shitty agreements were the angst of my post, such that, so many decades later, we're still fucking it up on a world stage?

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;5515409]You have something else to put in your accomplishment column, the single deadliest day for our men and women in uniform in 10 years in Afghanistan! You spineless pu $$why!.[/QUOTE]No doubt about it, Biden and his underlings at the State Department / NSA totally botched up the withdrawal of US Troops from Afghanistan but it is inconceivable the Trump administration would have done any better. After-all, trump's administration was populated by a great many incompetents, and made a mess of every large-scale logistical challenge it confronted. If they couldn't deal with a hurricane in Puerto Rico, or distribute vaccine doses in an effective manner, how could the Trump White House have pulled off a withdrawal of our troops from Afghanistan.

[B][I]
Trump, in a written statement, April 18, 2020
I personally believe that the predictions that the Afghan forces will collapse right away, they are not right. We will help; we are helping them now. We will help them. This is our commitment. I personally believe that the statements that the forces will disintegrate, and the Talibs will take over in short order are mistaken. The real choices that the Afghans will face is between a long war and negotiated settlement.


Trump, at a political rally, June 26, 2020
Whatever happens in Afghanistan if there is a significant deterioration in security, that could well happen. Weve discussed this before. I dont think its going to be something that happens from a Friday to a Monday. So I wouldnt necessary equate the departure of our forces in July, August, or by early September with some kind of immediate deterioration in the situation.[/I]
[/B]

The agreement that then-Secretary of State Mike Pompeo negotiated with the Taliban was substantially complete by February of 2020. If Trump and Pompeo thought that leaving Afghanistan would be easy, then they would have set things up to complete the withdrawal before the 2020 election, so Trump could run on that accomplishment. Instead, they pointedly set the withdrawal up to take place at a time about as far away from a presidential election, or a midterm, as is possible. They knew full well that a fiasco was likely.

I am not a Biden supporter and I definitely don't want anything to do with Trump. But I have to give both of them credits for the courage to leave Afghanistan. The mistake was made by George Bush, propagated by Obama and Trump. We should have gotten out after we killed Osama Bin Laden. I don't believe in occupying another country by nation building. We cannot force other countries to live, to think and to behave the way we want them. It is up to them and not us. How many deaths and refugees we have created around the world? Leadership is achieved by persuasion, sincerity and not by bombs. We failed there because we don't understand them. It is easy to bribe their leadership by planeloads of gold bars. We failed to find read Afghan leaders in 20 years. What we had were Olympic champions who broke world records to leave by breaking world records. We should go after these leaders that betrayed us and get back all our money! They are as bad as the terrorists there. We are the most powerful and best country. The best way is to win people heart, like providing vaccines to the world quickly! Domination does not work. There Are so much we can help the world. In fact, the whole world (including China, Russia, Iran and North Korea) is looking forward to good USA leadership. I pray for world peace and for all our soldiers that died last week. May God bless their families and USA.

[QUOTE=Niteluvr;5518065]Correct on ARVN, their official name, but NVA is how most vets refer to them in my veterans groups. The CIA had separate agreements with the Viet Cong, another poor ROI. Those shitty agreements were the angst of my post, such that, so many decades later, we're still fucking it up on a world stage?[/QUOTE]ARVH = Army of the Republic of Viet Nam (the "good" guys).

NVA = North Viet Namese Army (the "bad" guys).

VC = Viet Cong (also the "bad" guys but less formally organized then the NVA).

Truth is, we have successfully done nation building but it is no longer politically correct and no one has the stomach for it. We did in the Philippines, Japan, and Germany. But it requires complete take over of the government and slowly bringing them into the fold over the course of a generation or two. While we certainly stayed in Afghanistan half the time required, we did not use the same approach.

[QUOTE=ILoveHo;5518366]I am not a Biden supporter and I definitely don't want anything to do with Trump. But I have to give both of them credits for the courage to leave Afghanistan. The mistake was made by George Bush, propagated by Obama and Trump. We should have gotten out after we killed Osama Bin Laden. I don't believe in occupying another country by nation building. We cannot force other countries to live, to think and to behave the way we want them. It is up to them and not us. How many deaths and refugees we have created around the world? Leadership is achieved by persuasion, sincerity and not by bombs. We failed there because we don't understand them. It is easy to bribe their leadership by planeloads of gold bars. We failed to find read Afghan leaders in 20 years. What we had were Olympic champions who broke world records to leave by breaking world records. We should go after these leaders that betrayed us and get back all our money! They are as bad as the terrorists there. We are the most powerful and best country. The best way is to win people heart, like providing vaccines to the world quickly! Domination does not work. There Are so much we can help the world. In fact, the whole world (including China, Russia, Iran and North Korea) is looking forward to good USA leadership. I pray for world peace and for all our soldiers that died last week. May God bless their families and USA.[/QUOTE]

Stolen elections have catastrophic consequences.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;5519675]Stolen elections have catastrophic consequences.[/QUOTE]Good thing it wasn't stolen.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;5519675]Stolen elections have catastrophic consequences.[/QUOTE]Biden is a fucking embarrassment. Multiple reports told by pilots unable to land outside of Afghanistan due to the United States pressuring those countries to deny them access to airfields. They are literally sending Americans back to Afghanistan to be murdered.

The democrats their voters, representations and their President have weakened and disgrace our country in the eyes of the world. The republicans are not muc better.

[QUOTE=RedneckStud;5519732]Good thing it wasn't stolen.[/QUOTE]Maybe not, but enough of you dumb fucks voted for this criminally compromised sack of shit to make this unfolding tragedy possible. Wear it. Own it. You are just as responsible as he is.

Scientific fact: My dog gets more factual information sniffing another dog's ass than we get from you all.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;5519675]Stolen elections have catastrophic consequences.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CrestWood87;5519766]Biden is a fucking embarrassment. Multiple reports told by pilots unable to land outside of Afghanistan due to the United States pressuring those countries to deny them access to airfields. They are literally sending Americans back to Afghanistan to be murdered.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ComTech42;5519784]The democrats their voters, representations and their President have weakened and disgrace our country in the eyes of the world. The republicans are not muc better.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=HobbyMan51;5520058]Maybe not, but enough of you dumb fucks voted for this criminally compromised sack of shit to make this unfolding tragedy possible. Wear it. Own it. You are just as responsible as he is.[/QUOTE]

'Sundowning isn't a disease, but a group of symptoms that occur at a specific time of the day that may affect people with dementia.

The term "sundowning" refers to a state of confusion occurring in the late afternoon and spanning into the night. Sundowning can cause a variety of behaviors, such as confusion, anxiety, aggression or ignoring directions. Sundowning can also lead to pacing or wandering. '.

'JUST IN - Biden says "My fellow Americans, the war in Afghanistan is now over." Trump's spokesperson responds "Biden didn't end the war, he lost the war"'

'Biden was a U.S. senator, vice president, or president for 16 of the 20 years of the war in Afghanistan. He voted for it, funded it, re-authorized it, and prosecuted it for 16 years.

No politician on earth is more responsible for the failed mission in Afghanistan than Joe Biden.'

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;5521963]The term "sundowning" refers to a state of confusion occurring in the late afternoon and spanning into the night.

I couldn't help but notice that you posted this at 3:56 p.m.

No politician on earth is more responsible for the failed mission in Afghanistan than Joe Biden.[/QUOTE]I couldn't help but notice that you posted this at 3:56 pm.

You are welcome to your opinion, but the name Donald J. Trump keeps appearing, just like it does in that pesky election, no matter how hard he tries to revise history.

[QUOTE=Bullett64;5522135]I couldn't help but notice that you posted this at 3:56 pm.

You are welcome to your opinion, but the name Donald J. Trump keeps appearing, just like it does in that pesky election, no matter how hard he tries to revise history.[/QUOTE]IDK what that means. Seriously, you're what 1 year younger than Biden, maybe 2? He prob seems sharp as a tack to you, full of energy. Well he's not and neither are you.

You've called me a liar among other things. When I asked you how I lied you responded with.

[QUOTE=Bullett64;5500089]You are either simply ignorant (intentionally or not and / or stupid (again, either intentionally or not), but you are certainly arrogant and dangerous, whether to yourself, those around you, or the general population at large.

And that IS intentional on your part.

I can no longer be bothered to even read your posts. Good luck with your health; you are going to need it.[/QUOTE]Suck my dick, old man. Do what you said and no longer be bothered to read my posts.


*Joe Biden's death spiral continues. Where is his floor? At this point does he have a floor?

Reuters: ..."Things are not going well in terms of the fight against the Taliban," President Biden told Afghanistan President Ghani during a July phone call.

Biden continued...

"And there is a need, WHETHER IT IS True OR NOT, there is a need to project a different picture."