Rants and Raves

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;4774019]My numbers are sound and I'm not ignorant of basic math.[/QUOTE]Oh, but my friend, you are. You are pulling a sample of jelly beans from a jar containing an unknown, but approximate number of them, and declaring that exactly 23.49174820725975% of them are red. Its mathematical bullshit and is done only because you think the number is more compelling than just 23-24%.

As to the age question, are we not a society who is in this together? Or are you just in it for yourself? If society as a whole does not work to slow this thing down until an effective vaccine is developed, you will eventually run out of convenient targets for the disease and it will progress to the next most available population group. Will it only become important when your age group is affected?

Why did we push so hard to contain AIDS when it mostly affected those who were young and gay? It didn't affect us, so why bother?

Like it or not, we are all part of the problem and we must all be part of the solution. Most of us are. We welcome you to join us when you grow up.

[QUOTE=PWhipped;4774108]Hey, thanks to all for the info, The back and forth and all the OPINIONS are interesting and I guess even with the figures, its still guess work. Soo, in each and all's opinions, at the 85-90% group, if in excellent health, what is the % that one will not survive this world in the coming year and if or not continuing see a few ladies, what % chance of catching this fucking virus?? And what if wearing a mask and not going out anymore than necessary, helps keep from catching it?

Yes and I wish all wet dreams abound! PW.[/QUOTE]The mask does not prevent you from catching it, or even lower the chance. The mask is to prevent you from spreading it. There are too many vectors for this virus, and this virus is very opportunistic. So catching it is pretty easy. Depending on your body immune system is the determining factor. If you have a normal immune response, probably better than 95% you will survive with just minor symptoms. If your immune system is either compromised, or over reactive then all bets are off. What is still being ignored, is that even if you recover, there will be damage to your organs (lungs, kidneys, heart). So what is long term prospect? That is something that medical science will start looking at after we are past this beginning phase.

[QUOTE=PWhipped;4774108] Soo, in each and all's opinions, at the 85-90% group, if in excellent health, what is the % that one will not survive this world in the coming year and if or not continuing see a few ladies, what % chance of catching this fucking virus?? And what if wearing a mask and not going out anymore than necessary, helps keep from catching it?[/QUOTE]Nobody knows. And therein lies the problem. It has been shown that this is a highly contagious disease and that maintaining public health requires public participation. To what end, one again, no-one knows. Keeping it under control until a a vaccine is developed seems to be the best strategy at the moment, but for the third time, no-one knows for sure.

Killing off all the old people is another way to go, but I personally think we can do better. Its called "public health" for a reason.

Wearing a mask and not going out more than possible is NOT guaranteed to keep you safe, but it IS guaranteed to keep you, and everyone else, safer.

No matter how many decimal places they use, no-one can give you exact percentages on anything relating to this disease. Its simply too soon. We can, however, separate the good ideas from the bad ideas and that is the problem the world is facing. When do they overlap? When does the benefit of reopening society become the problem of causing a new wave of disease? And when does the economic hardship of closing society outweigh the increase in deaths that will be caused if you open things up?

If you know ahead of that decision, the answer is easy. But as none of us has that level of clairvoyance, we have to make the best educated guesses that we can.

[QUOTE=Bullett64;4774264]Oh, but my friend, you are. You are pulling a sample of jelly beans from a jar containing an unknown, but approximate number of them, and declaring that exactly 23.49174820725975% of them are red. Its mathematical bullshit and is done only because you think the number is more compelling than just 23-24%.

As to the age question, are we not a society who is in this together? Or are you just in it for yourself? If society as a whole does not work to slow this thing down until an effective vaccine is developed, you will eventually run out of convenient targets for the disease and it will progress to the next most available population group. Will it only become important when your age group is affected?

Why did we push so hard to contain AIDS when it mostly affected those who were young and gay? It didn't affect us, so why bother?

Like it or not, we are all part of the problem and we must all be part of the solution. Most of us are. We welcome you to join us when you grow up.[/QUOTE]Damn good response. I also like to look at whole numbers, if possible, not percentages drawn out to the nth degree. That, and a shitload of common sense have always served me well.

[QUOTE=Bullett64;4774264]Oh, but my friend, you are. You are pulling a sample of jelly beans from a jar containing an unknown, but approximate number of them, and declaring that exactly 23.49174820725975% of them are red. Its mathematical bullshit and is done only because you think the number is more compelling than just 23-24%.

As to the age question, are we not a society who is in this together? Or are you just in it for yourself? If society as a whole does not work to slow this thing down until an effective vaccine is developed, you will eventually run out of convenient targets for the disease and it will progress to the next most available population group. Will it only become important when your age group is affected?

Why did we push so hard to contain AIDS when it mostly affected those who were young and gay? It didn't affect us, so why bother?

Like it or not, we are all part of the problem and we must all be part of the solution. Most of us are. We welcome you to join us when you grow up.[/QUOTE]Vaccines do not magically appear and we cannot stay locked down that long. They call it a Flu Vaccine but it really isn't vaccine in the same sense as the polio or measles vaccines. The flu is only for a certain strain that year and is far from 100% effective and I do not intend to get stuck every year on a vaccine that may or may not prevent it. The shelter in place was to flatten the curve so as to not overwhelm the health care industry and we have done that! Mission accomplished. Let's get back on with life and those who wish to hide in their homes are free to do so.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4775155]Vaccines do not magically appear and we cannot stay locked down that long.[/QUOTE]Both of these statements are true. It will take time to develop a vaccine and society must and will reopen before one is developed. The important consideration, however, is that this virus is not just another flu. It is far more contagious and continues to spread despite the rather draconian measures that we have taken to date.

Giving up now, however, is not the answer. While scientists are working on a vaccine based solution, it is incumbent on the rest of us to buy them time. The problem is to balance personal and economic freedoms with the sacrifices necessary to slow this thing down to a manageable level. Do I have all the answers? Certainly not. I doubt I know all the questions.

But I do know that unless we work together until we get this thing under control, we as a society will allow it to get much worse. 1 1/4 million cases and 75,000 dead in the US in the last two months is not something we should be ignoring. We should work to gradually and safely reopen the economy, but be ever mindful that it may cause an entire new wave of the disease.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4775155]Vaccines do not magically appear and we cannot stay locked down that long. They call it a Flu Vaccine but it really isn't vaccine in the same sense as the polio or measles vaccines. The flu is only for a certain strain that year and is far from 100% effective and I do not intend to get stuck every year on a vaccine that may or may not prevent it. The shelter in place was to flatten the curve so as to not overwhelm the health care industry and we have done that! Mission accomplished. Let's get back on with life and those who wish to hide in their homes are free to do so.[/QUOTE]

FWIW, Forty percent of Americans are clinically obese and another 35% are overweight. Letting COVID run amok would most certainly overwhelm and might even bankrupt our health care system. According to the Newyork times, "More than a month has passed since there was a day with fewer than 1,000 deaths from the virus. Almost every day, at least 25,000 new coronavirus cases are identified, meaning that the total in the United States which has the highest number of known cases in the world with more than a million is expanding by between 2 and 4 percent daily. ".

"Rural towns that one month ago were unscathed are suddenly hot spots for the virus. It is rampaging through nursing homes, meatpacking plants and prisons, killing the medically vulnerable and the poor, and new outbreaks keep emerging in grocery stores, Walmarts or factories, an ominous harbinger of what a full reopening of the economy will bring. ".

[QUOTE=SgtSoros;4775286]FWIW, Forty percent of Americans are clinically obese and another 35% are overweight. Letting COVID run amok would most certainly overwhelm and might even bankrupt our health care system. According to the Newyork times, "More than a month has passed since there was a day with fewer than 1,000 deaths from the virus. Almost every day, at least 25,000 new coronavirus cases are identified, meaning that the total in the United States which has the highest number of known cases in the world with more than a million is expanding by between 2 and 4 percent daily. ".

"Rural towns that one month ago were unscathed are suddenly hot spots for the virus. It is rampaging through nursing homes, meatpacking plants and prisons, killing the medically vulnerable and the poor, and new outbreaks keep emerging in grocery stores, Walmarts or factories, an ominous harbinger of what a full reopening of the economy will bring. ".[/QUOTE]And we have allowed big pharma to redefine obese, high BP, and other things just get us on drugs. Other countries, such as India, laugh at how quick we are to put people on drugs for tests they still consider to be in the normal range. I am not one to typically compare what works in countries the size of some of our average states but Sweden is not in the same boat. Plus, as I have said before, how many people who do have medical conditions are not getting them because the hospitals have shut down a lot of those procedures for now? We are going on 2 months now and some states may keep it another month. Dr Foolish Fauci wants all spectators not allowed in a sports complex this entire year along with concerts and other such things.

If you want to become a brain dead idiot with a brain full of mush, read Rants and Raves! Jesus Christ some of ya'll are ignorant fucks!

[QUOTE=SgtSoros;4775286]FWIW, Forty percent of Americans are clinically obese and another 35% are overweight. Letting COVID run amok would most certainly overwhelm and might even bankrupt our health care system. According to the Newyork times, "More than a month has passed since there was a day with fewer than 1,000 deaths from the virus. Almost every day, at least 25,000 new coronavirus cases are identified, meaning that the total in the United States which has the highest number of known cases in the world with more than a million is expanding by between 2 and 4 percent daily. ".

"Rural towns that one month ago were unscathed are suddenly hot spots for the virus. It is rampaging through nursing homes, meatpacking plants and prisons, killing the medically vulnerable and the poor, and new outbreaks keep emerging in grocery stores, Walmarts or factories, an ominous harbinger of what a full reopening of the economy will bring. ".[/QUOTE]The New York Times, a former newspaper. Get out of here with your doomsday nonsense. It is so tiring and easy. They have no journalists, only activists and opinionists.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4775421]And we have allowed big pharma to redefine obese, high BP, and other things just get us on drugs. Other countries, such as India, laugh at how quick we are to put people on drugs for tests they still consider to be in the normal range. I am not one to typically compare what works in countries the size of some of our average states but Sweden is not in the same boat. Plus, as I have said before, how many people who do have medical conditions are not getting them because the hospitals have shut down a lot of those procedures for now? We are going on 2 months now and some states may keep it another month. Dr Foolish Fauci wants all spectators not allowed in a sports complex this entire year along with concerts and other such things.[/QUOTE]The 3 big hotspots in Europe have all been traced to sporting events, specifically 3 soccer matches. This is why Dr. Fauci doesn't want to allow spectators.

[QUOTE=SeekingHead;4775507]The 3 big hotspots in Europe have all been traced to sporting events, specifically 3 soccer matches. This is why Dr. Fauci doesn't want to allow spectators.[/QUOTE]You do realize that no spectators equals no money for the team, their employees, etc.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4775513]You do realize that no spectators equals no money for the team, their employees, etc.[/QUOTE]You do realize if we get a second wave of this pandemic everything will shut down again, perhaps for even longer. This equals no money for businesses, teams, employees etc for an even longer period of time.

[QUOTE=SgtLurker;4775513]You do realize that no spectators equals no money for the team, their employees, etc.[/QUOTE]MLB, college football, NFL, NHL, NBA, & MLS all make a lot of money off of their TV contracts usually exceeding what spectators spend.

[QUOTE=Bullett64;4774264]

As to the age question, are we not a society who is in this together? Or are you just in it for yourself? .[/QUOTE]Yes we are. But global data shows there is not a one size fits all approach. I'll start with what you need to do:

Based on your age, you're part of the 90% that bad things happen to if they catch the China Virus. Not necessarily death, but bad sick. Hospital. Tubes shoved down your throat. ICU stay. And I'm sure you know that over 100,000 Americans die each year from unrelated virus' caught while in hospital. You're in hospital for simple appendix surgery or to get a new hip and you catch a virus floating around in the hospital that kills you. Tragic. Depending on your pre-existing conditions, if any, overweight, morbidly obese, elevated blood pressure or hypertension, diabetes or pre-diabetes, cancer, cardiovascular disease, etc. , your age combined with one, two or many of those, you are now in the 95-99% of those who bad things happen to if they catch China Virus. That 95-99% is only a percentage of those known tested positive for virus, not of the whole. Estimates range from 5-40% of all have had China virus. Depending on that actual figure, even at the lowest estimate you'd have to multiple, thin the existing data by 15 x which puts the percent of Americans at grave risk from China Virus so low, w / many zeroes to the right of the decimal point followed by a long chain of numbers, that if I posted that, you would run to your kitchen and shove so many of the aforementioned jelly beans down your throat that you'd puke. They're no good for you anyway, pure sugar, if you are diabetic, pre-diabetic they'll kill you.

Pertaining to this hobby, what you need to do whether it's a massage parlor girl, a crack / heroin addict at the Red Roof or a $1,000 sugar baby co-ed, based on your age with or w / o pre-existing conditions, you need to be very careful. They're up close and personal w / many, most likely passing China Virus back and forth from asymptomatic to asymptomatic. A Petri dish if you will. A month or so ago, someone of natl. Prominence called for 12-24 month lockdown of the US. An ignorant fear monger of course, but his point had validity for those at high risk like yourself. China Virus isn't going to disappear. Weaken yes. But those at high risk, those who China Virus seeks out and hurts bad will still be at risk while a fraction of a percent of the rest of us won't be. So you need to be careful w / that activity for years to come.

You should stay inside as much as possible. When you go out for groceries or whatever, you need to wear a mask. A certified N95 mask. One not from China because many of those are counterfeits. An N95 can actually filter out the China Virus microbes. A bandanna, painter's mask from Lowe's do nothing but jeopardize the health of a man your age. Make your heart and lungs work harder and you just breathe in and out, in and out, virus' you already carry. Make you sick. You also need to wear latex gloves. Order a case and throw away after each use. China Virus can live for days on cardboard. You're at the grocery store, pick up a box of Metamucil that someone who has virus just touched, you rub an eye, pick your nose and you've become infected. China Virus can live for weeks if not months on plastics, plastic laminates, stainless steel. Surfaces that exist on sales counters, reception stations, Dr. 's offices, that cold steel table in the exam room, etc. That again carries the same risk for years to come.

Depending on your living situation, you may need to mask and glove up at home also. Your son, grandson, great grandson lives with you. He's doing his thing, feels great. No problems. But he could be a asymptomatic carrier of the China virus. You ask him to pass the salt, you touch that shared surface then lick that BBQ sauce from your fingers and you've become infected. Faucets, toilets, countertops, fridge doors, etc. All pose the same risk to you. For years to come as previously stated.

What I and others in my shared demographic need to do:

Basically whatever the fuck we want to do. If under the age of 60. Feel great. No known serious pre-existing conditions. Bang hookers. Eat at dine in restaurants. Don't wear a mask or gloves. But don't shake hands. If I see an elderly person like yourself, I give them space for their benefit, not mine. But tests show passing someone on the street or in an enclosed environment, China Virus won't leap off them and onto you over those brief seconds. This type of behavior among those in low risk group is what someone like yourself in a high risk group should encourage. You lay low. Let the rest get on fully with their lives and work toward weakening the virus so all are at lower risk. They'll be an uptick in cases and deaths as this happens. But many claim those deaths, serious case, would've occurred anyway. They've only been delayed and possibly increased by a lock down that weakens our immunity to all.

To the original question you asked me, 'Or are you just in it for yourself?' I ask you the same. Are you just in this for yourself? Do you seek further job loss, business loss, suicides, homicides, divorces, depression, assaults, food / supply chain disruptions leading to higher price for basic necessities for the 99%+ of the population at extremely low risk at the sole behest of the -1% like yourself at high risk with all based on mis/disinformation?

You and others can read the political propaganda copied and pasted here by some mook. Or the copied and pasted lab reports by some piss ant claiming the China Virus has mutated to an even deadlier version. You can watch some fuckstain on CNN telling you you'll fucking die unless we lock down for years. I could copy and paste multiple sources that claim the exact opposite of all. But I don't. I don't even have cable. All posts I've made on the China Virus have been fact based and data driven. Not opinions based on a political or selfish aim.

I've provided you with an excellent fact based, brief yet thorough snapshot of where we as a society, as individual parts of the whole are right now. If facts and data changes tomorrow, next week or next month, so will I. But if or when that happens, we have nothing left to discuss.