"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2098425]Thanks, this is most useful information. I am assuming a successful date ends with her in your room and having sex? So do you typically pay for M&G? I know we are supposed to pay for the dinner, drinks etc, but do you offer an allowance then, just for them having come out? [/QUOTE]To me a successful date is one that ends in a good time overall, which typically means not only good sex but a satisfying night across the board, including the whole thing ending with smiles on both our faces. I had one situation where the sex was good but conversation went sideways and she copped an attitude over something silly and stormed off in a tiff and of course she got no gift since that's the very last thing I do. We patched things up later in e-mail, so I could look at it as a good date in the sense I got free sex from a stunner, but in my mind it was not a good date since I don't enjoy arguing or any sort of negative vibes.

I could say pay I for M&G in the sense that all my M&Gs ended up with sex except for one, and even then I bought her dinner, but I never offer anything up front. The one that didnt work out at the M&G took the conversation down the negotiating path and that's the main reason it didn't work. The times that they've indicated before meeting they wanted a certain amount just for showing up I say thanks but no thanks. I only ask that they meet me, then decide from there if they are attracted enough to me to proceed. I tell them if money is the only reason they are there they should move along because I need a certain amount of genuine chemistry.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2098425]Thanks, this is most useful information. [/QUOTE]Just got home and had to spend some time catching up. Much activity here in such a short time.

DirtyDeeds, I think everything said was golden advice and anything I add will just be repetitive. With that said, I'm just going to repeat.

I learned to keep the cost of the M&G down as low as possible. The first one I went to, I got too excited about the possibility of an 18 yr old and spent too much for nothing. It wasn't until the 2nd date at a much later time that we fucked, but the cpo is still very high with her because of the M&G. Following some advice from this board, I keep it to just drinks now. I understand the value of wining and dining a POT, but around here it's a numbers game and I can't afford to wine and dine all the ones that end up flaking.

I like Fred's advice of working backwards with your budget. If your financial situation allows for a total of 300/ date, subtract the cost of room and other expenses to get to the amount of sugar you can offer. Once you have a solid rotation going and you're more confident in your game, you can lower the sugar and see what you can reel in. Each one of us will differ in what it takes. Hollywoodguy's experience and location lets him maintain a waiting list with his $ offer. It's possible that where you're located, that offer will get you absolutely nothing but the desperate pros. Just keep fine tuning while you're enjoying the chase and keep thinking with the big head.

Everyone should be aware that there are pros on the SD sites. In some cases, you can spot them early on. Some make it easy by using terminology that gives them away. Others you have to do some research on. I've passed on them since I use hx for the quick hits.

Here is a sporty college girl I met a few years ago, like a month after her 18th bday. She is now a 21 year old about 5'8' 125 llb. Maybe 6.5/9/9/9. Bangin body, super friendly, excellent skills. Just reconnected. She agreed to $.7 for 2 visits a week. If I can fit them in. And she drives to me.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2098917]Here is a sporty college girl I met a few years ago, like a month after her 18th bday. She is now a 21 year old about 5'8' 125 llb. Maybe 6.5/9/9/9. Bangin body, super friendly, excellent skills. Just reconnected. She agreed to $.7 for 2 visits a week. If I can fit them in. And she drives to me.[/QUOTE]Ok, is that $700 a month, or $170 for two visits during the week? I have trouble making out the numbers when presented like that. LOL.

Either way, man I've been way overpaying. I got one on the hook right now, but she wants a traditional agreement of $2000 a month. College girl. I won't got for that, but going see if she will accept a cash infusion per visit after we meet.

Another question. Do you ever just end it with these girls by just fading off and not communicating? And do you worry that some disgruntled girl you saw, had a dinner out with, then sex at a hotel, is going to come looking for you, ever, cause you told her you were going to be a sugar daddy?

I worry about this shit. LOL Although I cover my tracks fairly well, but these days, it's easy to track people down. I know the real names, etc of all the girls I dated. And they did not necessarily intend to let me know this, I just find shit out.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2098966]Ok, is that $700 a month, or $170 for two visits during the week? I have trouble making out the numbers when presented like that. LOL.

Either way, man I've been way overpaying. I got one on the hook right now, but she wants a traditional agreement of $2000 a month. College girl. I won't got for that, but going see if she will accept a cash infusion per visit after we meet.

Another question. Do you ever just end it with these girls by just fading off and not communicating? And do you worry that some disgruntled girl you saw, had a dinner out with, then sex at a hotel, is going to come looking for you, ever, cause you told her you were going to be a sugar daddy?

I worry about this shit. LOL Although I cover my tracks fairly well, but these days, it's easy to track people down. I know the real names, etc of all the girls I dated. And they did not necessarily intend to let me know this, I just find shit out.[/QUOTE]Basically 85 dollars a visit and she has to make a 50 mile RT from her place. She will make time for 2 visits a week if I can squeeze her in. She is in love with my dick. And any girl that isn't wouldn't be worth a nickel. What her live in boy friend (emphasis on the boy) doesn't know will never hurt him.

If you date enough girls you will meet some wackos. And when you pull the security away many times they will try to dig in. No different than civi dating. Actually easier because the sugar sets the boundaries. Civi dating is way too wishy washy for me. Sugar dating is inherently tilted towards the mans needs. As the number of available SB's far outweighs the number of Real SD's. In civi dating there are far more available young good looking guys for a very limited number of hot girls. I am always shocked when I see some good looking young guy with an average girl that I wouldn't date for free. But in civi dating the hot girls rule. My neighbor is a good looking in shape, drives an audi, educated guy. I want to ring his neck when I see the girls he dates. I doubt I have ever seen him with an 8 or better. Lots of 5's and 6's. We wouldnt touch those girls, and even if we did we wouldnt be seen in public with them. When I am out I get so many looks, comments and haters it's ridiculous.

And I doubt that most sugar daddies are hotter looking than thier dates. I'm certainly not.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2098974]
If you date enough girls you will meet some wackos. And when you pull the security away many times they will try to dig in. No different than civi dating. Actually easier because the sugar sets the boundaries. Civi dating is way too wishy washy for me. Sugar dating is inherently misogynist.[/QUOTE]I agree it's much like civy dating but with less hassle due to boundaries created by money (that's what I like about it, what makes it so addictive). But I really don't see it as misogynistic at all. I see it as helping these girls on a number of levels: some of them are going to school or paying off student loans, so I'm helping educate society, sort of. Some of them are single moms, so I'm helping provide for their kid. A surprising number of girls I meet have simply found themselves with 2 or 3 dogs and a constant flood of vet bills (nobody told them the average dog will cost around 40 grand in care if during their lifetime), which works also because I like animals so helping with vet bills sounds good to me too.

They say the number of girls walking the streets for money has diminished tremendously across the nation as a result of the Internet and what it's done for providers (given them a much safer way to operate, both from legal risk, pimps / drugs etc), so in the case of some of these girls that are borderline escorts or would-be pros, turning them into SBs actually helps keep them away from more dangerous options and activities.

I genuinely love women. It doesn't mean I will put up with crap from one who tries to give it to me, and it doesn't stop me from trying to maximize what I get out of my dates and pay them as little as possible, but my actions don't mean I dislike them or look down on them because they are women. Sometimes I do look down on them because they've got an attitude issue or they attempt to match wits with me when they aren't even close to being experienced enough in life to do so, but certainly not because they're female.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2098991]I agree it's much like civy dating but with less hassle due to boundaries created by money (that's what I like about it, what makes it so addictive). But I really don't see it as misogynistic at all. I see it as helping these girls on a number of levels: some of them are going to school or paying off student loans, so I'm helping educate society, sort of. Some of them are single moms, so I'm helping provide for their kid. A surprising number of girls I meet have simply found themselves with 2 or 3 dogs and a constant flood of vet bills (nobody told them the average dog will cost around 40 grand in care if during their lifetime), which works also because I like animals so helping with vet bills sounds good to me too.

They say the number of girls walking the streets for money has diminished tremendously across the nation as a result of the Internet and what it's done for providers (given them a much safer way to operate, both from legal risk, pimps / drugs etc), so in the case of some of these girls that are borderline escorts or would-be pros, turning them into SBs actually helps keep them away from more dangerous options and activities.

I genuinely love women. It doesn't mean I will put up with crap from one who tries to give it to me, and it doesn't stop me from trying to maximize what I get out of my dates and pay them as little as possible, but my actions don't mean I dislike them or look down on them because they are women. Sometimes I do look down on them because they've got an attitude issue or they attempt to match wits with me when they aren't even close to being experienced enough in life to do so, but certainly not because they're female.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I edited that part. because my definition of that word is just that men rule. The true dictionary definition is woman hater. But in our politically correct world its any guy that doesn't toe the extreme feminist line. SB's do have the power to walk away. And then woe is us, as we will then be stuck interviewing a bunch hot young girls to replace the one that left. Things could be worse.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2098966]Ok, is that $700 a month, or $170 for two visits during the week? I have trouble making out the numbers when presented like that. LOL.

Either way, man I've been way overpaying. I got one on the hook right now, but she wants a traditional agreement of $2000 a month. College girl. I won't got for that, but going see if she will accept a cash infusion per visit after we meet.

Another question. Do you ever just end it with these girls by just fading off and not communicating? And do you worry that some disgruntled girl you saw, had a dinner out with, then sex at a hotel, is going to come looking for you, ever, cause you told her you were going to be a sugar daddy?

I worry about this shit. LOL Although I cover my tracks fairly well, but these days, it's easy to track people down. I know the real names, etc of all the girls I dated. And they did not necessarily intend to let me know this, I just find shit out.[/QUOTE]That'd be 170. $2000/ month isn't bad. I'm assuming she'll be showing up 20 x a month though. But seriously, it's all relative. There's been recommendations to give sugar for each date and avoid the monthly lump sum. I've made agreements on a monthly but gave a fraction of that after each date. You don't want to be too ahead on the sugar. Someone compared it to hiring a contractor. You don't give all the money up front.

I've never just faded away. If things need to end, I let them know first. I've been cut off of communication though, but just moved on. If you're concerned about your privacy / safety, be cautious about the name you use, the phone number / email you give out and how close to your home base you play. I've only had one crazy but she didn't know my real name, only had a hobby related number and email. It's possible I may run into her one day, but it's a big big world.

I'm sitting here in my suite at the MC Hotel in Vegas, alone at the moment, waiting to see who blinks first with a 23 year old SB I just had a M&G dinner with. I thought things went well until towards the end of the meal when she told me that I would need to pay Her some money to help with her tuition, car payment, car insurance, Rent, and a trip to see her Mother in New York over the 4th of July. All before she would join me in my suite for a rendezvous. I told her that I wasn't planning on paying anything like what she requested until we had a chance to see if we were physically compatible. That doesn't work for her. Pay first Fck later doesn't work for me. Two positives though. First, this IS Vegas so I am sure I will be able to find some company tonight if this does go south. Second, this SB is really cute. About 5'3" very thin but fit. The opposite of my first M&G with the "linebacker", who went in the 2nd round in the NFL draft a few days ago.

[QUOTE=Rouleur;2099021]I'm sitting here in my suite at the MC Hotel in Vegas, alone at the moment, waiting to see who blinks first with a 23 year old SB I just had a M&G dinner with. I thought things went well until towards the end of the meal when she told me that I would need to pay Her some money to help with her tuition, car payment, car insurance, Rent, and a trip to see her Mother in New York over the 4th of July. All before she would join me in my suite for a rendezvous. I told her that I wasn't planning on paying anything like what she requested until we had a chance to see if we were physically compatible. That doesn't work for her. Pay first Fck later doesn't work for me. Two positives though. First, this IS Vegas so I am sure I will be able to find some company tonight if this does go south. Second, this SB is really cute. About 5'3" very thin but fit. The opposite of my first M&G with the "linebacker", who went in the 2nd round in the NFL draft a few days ago.[/QUOTE]Hit up every hot 18 to 22 year old black, mixed or latina with regular pics, no professional model pics. Just offer $$ to come straight to your room. be firm, no upsell bs, take it or leave it with a genuine smile. If you send 50 messages before you get to sleep you will have at least 5 girls ready to rock by 6 pm or sooner tomorrow. Skip the dinner and just do room service. I am really excited. Please do this so you can all tell us the day after tomorrow what bomb sex you had with a local hottie. Not a CG or BP girl.

There are girls that live there that have never even stayed on the strip. That alone can almost seal the deal.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2099053]Hit up every hot 18 to 22 year old black, mixed or latina with regular pics, no professional model pics. Just offer $$ to come straight to your room. be firm, no upsell bs, take it or leave it with a genuine smile. If you send 50 messages before you get to sleep you will have at least 5 girls ready to rock by 6 pm or sooner tomorrow. Skip the dinner and just do room service. I am really excited. Please do this so you can all tell us the day after tomorrow what bomb sex you had with a local hottie. Not a CG or BP girl.

There are girls that live there that have never even stayed on the strip. That alone can almost seal the deal.[/QUOTE]Thank you for the sound advice HollywoodGuy, I had gone downstairs to the bar area earlier after my first post and saw, for a few minutes, the CG's working. I knew then I am not made for the instant sex type of fun. So, I returned to my FC and saw your note.

I had 5 potential SB's from my acct on SA that live here. As you suggested I started emailing them for tomorrow and before I got to the 4th SB on the list, the 2nd on the list returned my email. I'll believe it when I see it but she is supposed to meet me here at the MC in about 45 minutes. I kid you not she said she was hungry and I told her great room service is 24/7. She actually liked that idea.

I'm sort of nervous as this SB is only 20 and looks even younger in her photos. Slim, mixed race japanese / white but looks more white than asian. She is 5'8" which is nice as I'm a bit tall. Not to sound strange but I'm actually physically nervous as this would be the first woman I've actually had sex with, other than my Ex, in the last 20 years.

Wow, she just called and asked if she can arrive early! Will check in tomorrow, hopefully with a successful night to share rather than "learning experiences".

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2099006]Yeah, I edited that part. because my definition of that word is just that men rule. The true dictionary definition is woman hater. But in our politically correct world its any guy that doesn't toe the extreme feminist line. SB's do have the power to walk away. And then woe is us, as we will then be stuck interviewing a bunch hot young girls to replace the one that left. Things could be worse.[/QUOTE]Oh, I think must have meant chauvinistic, in which case I am definitely guilty as charged. I'm so far at the opposite end of the spectrum from being feminist supporter that I make Andrew Dice Clay look like Phil Donahue. LOL. I have no problems objectifying women sometimes -- a lot of them enjoy being objectified and seek it out. Hell, I like to be objectified myself sometimes, I've had civy dates in the past tell they didn't even really like me much aside from enjoying sex with me and I found their comment to be both a huge complement and turn on. To them I say welcome to an alpha male's world, sweetheart.

With a lot of talk about prices lately, I thought it would be a good idea to discuss about defining your own success.

I think we all do share one common goal of getting young hot sexually open girls while not breaking the bank in the process. It's safe to say we all pretty much share that goal. But beyond that, it's important to set your own goals and you shouldn't feel pressured by the clubhouse here to adhere to a certain price structure. And if you want to go to dinner and movie with your SB don't feel ashamed about it, it's your prerogative.

It's pretty common for all new SDs to overpay in their first few months in the Sugar Bowl. The Sugar Bowl can be overwhelming at first with literally a conveyor belt of real college girls letting you have a real sex with them (not that mechanical fake shit you get from escorts) for just a few hundred dollars. But after you've been in the Bowl for a few months or so, you gradually sharpen your sword a bit and you learn you can often get more with less.

Having said that, still keep your own goals in mind. Don't get caught-up in the Budget-Arms race. If you can get what you're looking for at 100, then fantastic. But if 100/ date don't mesh with the target girls and experience you want, then don't get caught up in the budget wars. I got caught-up last summer and I let a couple of really good SBs slip through my hands because I was over-extended to where I didn't have the resources to hold on to the quality SBs that landed in my lap. If I just gave those quality SBs 200-250, (they were worth twice the amount, IMO) I could have held on to them. So I took my eye off the ball and lost some good ones.

If you have the means to comfortably afford 300-400/ date, then go for it. Obviously be smart about it and don't just drop that amount money on a no-sex M&G. Those type of actions do make it difficult for the rest of SDs if girls are expecting to get paid for M&Gs. Otherwise, what you want to pay your SB is entirely up to you. The advantages of having a higher budget is that you'll be able to attract more top-end white girls and asian girls. Or you can fly-in top-end black / latina girls from out of state and pretty much pay the same thing. Also with a higher budget, you're far less likely to get outbid by another SD, so you'll be able to hold on to the ones you like. So if you have the means, don't feel like you have to settle for the "100" range girls to get your SD card stamped around here. Go after what you want.

Hollywood and I have two different approaches. He goes for volume and plays the numbers game, and I try to aim for quality over quantity. Our differing approach has a lot to do with our different situations. I'm married so there's no way I could juggle an endless stream of pussy. Hollywood isn't married so he has to fill more slots. My point is, it's important to understand your situation and adjust your approach appropriately. We've had quite a few married members come through here over the years and completely overdose on pussy the first 6 months and quickly flame-out, due to exposure from the SO or financial problems. It's important to remember if you're married, the higher volume of girls you're seeing directly increases your risk of exposure. So if you want to have a long career in the bowl or at least be able to retire with your nuts still in tact, then understand your situation, define your own success, and be smart. We will love to hear your stories and exploits regardless of how much you spend and how many girls you see. It's the different approaches that make things interesting and helps us all learn something new.

IMHO it is important to end things well with your SB. On one hand it is a classy thing to do and it is good to be a gentleman about it. This is what separates us from the dirt bags who are truly misogynistic and abusers, and give men a bad name. On the other hand it makes good business sense. Letting go easily leaves the girl with her self esteem somewhat intact, leaves the door open for a return visit, and prevents bad feelings which could prompt a psycho reaction. A woman scorned could lead to exposure by invading your private world if she knows who you really are.

So how do you do it? We all hate it when girls flake on us. So prepare her for separation. I always use the discovery card or the finance excuse. "Baby, you are amazing and I love every minute with you but {my business is in a down cycle / lost my job, whatever} and I can not afford to pay anymore. I am so bummed out I can hardly stand it. Now, if she loves you she might say ""THat's OK honey, I don't need your money, I just enjoy being with you " ,then you have a dilemma. Free pussy vs "now what do I say " . If you think she is the latter type of girl (believe me, they are few and far between) then use the SO card. Fill in the blank above with " My SO discovered my activities and is threatening to make trouble for us. I need to take a break to let things cool down. When it does I will see if you are still available " . Then you have to figure out how to explain your profile being active still.

The Truth? Well, I'm not sure how it will fly to say "You are just not my type of girl and I am not attracted to you anymore " . I told several PPots up front that I was only available for 1 month and it was surprising how many were OK with meeting weekly with an end in sight. One strategy would be to set a time limit and extend it if you want to keep her on the string.

If it was a shorter term thing and or I just want to move on I tell them that I have had a change in my work situation and pay and unfortunately I will not be able to afford our situation anymore. I basically work on commission so I'm not really lying.LOL. My pay is different every month. HA. They seem to get that the $ are not there so they move on with some understanding. Or a couple just said. Well. Just help me out with what you can, SCORE. Ok by me!

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2099208]IMHO it is important to end things well with your SB. On one hand it is a classy thing to do and it is good to be a gentleman about it. This is what separates us from the dirt bags who are truly misogynistic and abusers, and give men a bad name. On the other hand it makes good business sense. Letting go easily leaves the girl with her self esteem somewhat intact, leaves the door open for a return visit, and prevents bad feelings which could prompt a psycho reaction. A woman scorned could lead to exposure by invading your private world if she knows who you really are.

So how do you do it? We all hate it when girls flake on us. So prepare her for separation. I always use the discovery card or the finance excuse. "Baby, you are amazing and I love every minute with you but {my business is in a down cycle / lost my job, whatever} and I can not afford to pay anymore. I am so bummed out I can hardly stand it. Now, if she loves you she might say ""THat's OK honey, I don't need your money, I just enjoy being with you " ,then you have a dilemma. Free pussy vs "now what do I say " . If you think she is the latter type of girl (believe me, they are few and far between) then use the SO card. Fill in the blank above with " My SO discovered my activities and is threatening to make trouble for us. I need to take a break to let things cool down. When it does I will see if you are still available " . Then you have to figure out how to explain your profile being active still.

The Truth? Well, I'm not sure how it will fly to say "You are just not my type of girl and I am not attracted to you anymore " . I told several PPots up front that I was only available for 1 month and it was surprising how many were OK with meeting weekly with an end in sight. One strategy would be to set a time limit and extend it if you want to keep her on the string.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2099208]So how do you do it? We all hate it when girls flake on us. So prepare her for separation. [/QUOTE]My exit door is built into the blueprint early on. Since I'm only a seasonal traveling daddy, I tell them up front I am interested in interviewing SBs in the town they are in because of occasional travel to that area. So, for the most part if they are looking for someone to see every 4 times a month every month they already know I'm not going to be the one.

A couple of times I've gotten mushy e-mails to the effect that they say things like "if I meet the right guy and fall in love I'm open to that etc." and if I get kind of a overly gushing reaction to my photos telling me how attracted they are to me, I usually respond back being very clear that I'm not looking for any sort of regular dating scenario and that I really want the separation of a SD / SB arrangement and I need someone who can handle that, know its not going to change, and not be clingy.

So far it's worked out pretty well and while I've had a few turn crabby, as women sometimes do, I haven't had any stalkers, vengeful types, or walked away wishing I had done something really differently.

One of my SB's was a 20 year old stripper, and she was a little different in the sense that she would text me incessantly to ask "when are you coming again!??" meaning when would I be in town again, but that was a little different because I met her where she worked and she did not have the benefit of hearing my set of rules up front.

I thought this experience so unusual that I would share with you guys. After breaking up with my last SB, I couldn't find anything for a couple months on SA and needed some relief, so I started looking at BP ads. Made a date with a cute spinner, and soon realized she was not an average working girl. Not on drugs, had her own house, dean's list certificate on the wall, etc. So I have a chat with her about the sugar bowl and she says she hasn't heard of the concept, but is interested. She wants to quit the business and likes the idea of an allowance. We settle on an amount, and so far its working. She pulled her BP ad and changed her phone no.

So now there is only one problem, and I welcome your comments on this. The sex is meh. I thought it would improve, but it's still lame escort sex, quick BJ, lay down and open the legs. She doesn't seem to enjoy it. Kind of understandable given her background, still I was hoping for GFE, and she hasn't heard of that concept either. Have you ever been with girls who look super sexy, but just aren't when the get in the sack?

[QUOTE=Tommyboy;2099300]I thought this experience so unusual that I would share with you guys. After breaking up with my last SB, I couldn't find anything for a couple months on SA and needed some relief, so I started looking at BP ads. Made a date with a cute spinner, and soon realized she was not an average working girl. Not on drugs, had her own house, dean's list certificate on the wall, etc. So I have a chat with her about the sugar bowl and she says she hasn't heard of the concept, but is interested. She wants to quit the business and likes the idea of an allowance. We settle on an amount, and so far its working. She pulled her BP ad and changed her phone no.

So now there is only one problem, and I welcome your comments on this. The sex is meh. I thought it would improve, but it's still lame escort sex, quick BJ, lay down and open the legs. She doesn't seem to enjoy it. Kind of understandable given her background, still I was hoping for GFE, and she hasn't heard of that concept either. Have you ever been with girls who look super sexy, but just aren't when the get in the sack?[/QUOTE]I'm sort of new to the SD scene, but have a little experience. I'm telling you the options out there right now are virtually limitless and there is no need to stay with a girl where the chemistry and sex is lacking. She has conditioned herself to "escort" style, just get it done type sex. In the SD world, it's our job to pay, be charming, be ourselves, be respectful and accommodating...it's her job to supply the sugar and a get to know your wants and desires so she can become a true GFE. If she lacks the capacity to do that, then you need to cut your losses and move on.

Ok this can be a touchy subject for us men, but it's a real one and something I've stumbled on with this new generation of girls out there. Many are not shy about asking things that can be touchy for us guys. In corresponding with back and forth with several ladies on SA, I've been outright asked about my dick size. One of the girls was 21, not much experience and she blurted out when we met in person, "so how big is you dick" I answered truthfully and told her, well, I don't think it's small, a little bigger then average, but by no means huge." then she giggled and asked if she could see it. Haha. Well heck yeah. We were at a park in my motorhome. So I whipped it out and had a semi erection from the erotic nature of this encounter. She looked at it and said, "you're not small, you have a perfect dick." LOL. Then she giggled again and asked if she could touch it...well hell yeah. So she proceeded to get me rock hard. While stroking me, I asked, "do you like them huge, or something..and she said, "look at me, I'm 5'1" 100 pounds, what do you think, I asked you cause I probably have the smallest tightest little pussy you will ever have, I don't like big dicks" Oh wow. After some begging, she stroked me off and giggled and said she had fun, etc, etc.

Another girl on SA, flat out told me she liked big ones and she was only 24. But she was a built girl. Fine, I moved on.

Yet a third girl asked me the same thing and was more the like the first, indicating she met one man and he was huge and she did not have sex with him. She said she could not accommodate a big dick. LOL.

They are forward and right to the point some of these girls these days. But it added another fine dimension to this whole SD thing. NOT ALL THE GIRLS WANT HUGE DICKS!! LOL. When dating MILF, or cougars in the past, they all want king kong, so this is a nice aspect of SD dating younger women. I think at least.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2099499]

They are forward and right to the point some of these girls these days. But it added another fine dimension to this whole SD thing. NOT ALL THE GIRLS WANT HUGE DICKS!! LOL. When dating MILF, or cougars in the past, they all want king kong, so this is a nice aspect of SD dating younger women. I think at least.[/QUOTE]I haven't had any SBs ask me in e-mail (and usually once in person they get to see it soon enough without asking), and not many civys in the past (prior to meeting in email at least) that come to mind, but I think in general dick curiosity is not a new thing. I can remember being maybe 5-6 years old the neighborhood girls 2-3 years older than me giggling and asking me if I was old enough for it to get hard yet and I wasn't shy about dropping trou, showing them how quickly I could work up a miniature boner. Later on I can remember girls asking if they can put their hands down my pants around the 7th-8th grade, or in the 9th grade passing me a note in class asking how big it was, asking me to estimate by drawing on the paper. Similar stories throughout high school. Several years back I was at a nightclub hitting on one girl, and her friend was much bolder than her and not too shy to do some recon work, so she stood in front of me, back facing my chest, acted like she was dancing rubbing her ass on my crotch, reached down with her hand and on the outside of my pants sized me up and announced the results to the other 4-5 people standing around talking, to all of our amusement (especially mine). I remember another time I met a girl in the club and she sat me down on a bench in front of a busy bar, straddled me cowgirl style, pulled my shirt up and stuck her hands down my pants and proceeded to give me a full-on tuggy while deep kissing as tons of people including the bouncers walked by and said nothing.

However with the SBs I've met it just doesn't happen because most of the mails happen prior to the first M&G, and at that point they are just holding out to see if my pictures are real or of someone else or 15 years old. So they usually don't get too curious or playful if they are planning to meet me in person anyway, in my limited experience.

[QUOTE=Tommyboy;2099300]I thought this experience so unusual that I would share with you guys. After breaking up with my last SB, I couldn't find anything for a couple months on SA and needed some relief, so I started looking at BP ads. Made a date with a cute spinner, and soon realized she was not an average working girl. Not on drugs, had her own house, dean's list certificate on the wall, etc. So I have a chat with her about the sugar bowl and she says she hasn't heard of the concept, but is interested. She wants to quit the business and likes the idea of an allowance. We settle on an amount, and so far its working. She pulled her BP ad and changed her phone no.

So now there is only one problem, and I welcome your comments on this. The sex is meh. I thought it would improve, but it's still lame escort sex, quick BJ, lay down and open the legs. She doesn't seem to enjoy it. Kind of understandable given her background, still I was hoping for GFE, and she hasn't heard of that concept either. Have you ever been with girls who look super sexy, but just aren't when the get in the sack?[/QUOTE]How long have you been seeing her? If it seems like she's not moving away from the escort sex, I'd have a talk with her. I'm not sure how I'd approach the subject, but let her know how you feel about the sex. It may be that the escort sex is all she ever knew even before getting on BP. If she's willing to learn, then you get to teach her about the passionate side of sex rather than just getting off asap.

[QUOTE=JohnGSmith;2099126]With a lot of talk about prices lately, I thought it would be a good idea to discuss about defining your own success.

I think we all do share one common goal of getting young hot sexually open girls while not breaking the bank in the process. It's safe to say we all pretty much share that goal. But beyond that, it's important to set your own goals and you shouldn't feel pressured by the clubhouse here to adhere to a certain price structure. And if you want to go to dinner and movie with your SB don't feel ashamed about it, it's your prerogative.

It's pretty common for all new SDs to overpay in their first few months in the Sugar Bowl. The Sugar Bowl can be overwhelming at first with literally a conveyor belt of real college girls letting you have a real sex with them (not that mechanical fake shit you get from escorts) for just a few hundred dollars. But after you've been in the Bowl for a few months or so, you gradually sharpen your sword a bit and you learn you can often get more with less.

Having said that, still keep your own goals in mind. Don't get caught-up in the Budget-Arms race. If you can get what you're looking for at 100, then fantastic. But if 100/ date don't mesh with the target girls and experience you want, then don't get caught up in the budget wars. I got caught-up last summer and I let a couple of really good SBs slip through my hands because I was over-extended to where I didn't have the resources to hold on to the quality SBs that landed in my lap. If I just gave those quality SBs 200-250, (they were worth twice the amount, IMO) I could have held on to them. So I took my eye off the ball and lost some good ones.

If you have the means to comfortably afford 300-400/ date, then go for it. Obviously be smart about it and don't just drop that amount money on a no-sex M&G. Those type of actions do make it difficult for the rest of SDs if girls are expecting to get paid for M&Gs. Otherwise, what you want to pay your SB is entirely up to you. The advantages of having a higher budget is that you'll be able to attract more top-end white girls and asian girls. Or you can fly-in top-end black / latina girls from out of state and pretty much pay the same thing. Also with a higher budget, you're far less likely to get outbid by another SD, so you'll be able to hold on to the ones you like. So if you have the means, don't feel like you have to settle for the "100" range girls to get your SD card stamped around here. Go after what you want.

Hollywood and I have two different approaches. He goes for volume and plays the numbers game, and I try to aim for quality over quantity. Our differing approach has a lot to do with our different situations. I'm married so there's no way I could juggle an endless stream of pussy. Hollywood isn't married so he has to fill more slots. My point is, it's important to understand your situation and adjust your approach appropriately. We've had quite a few married members come through here over the years and completely overdose on pussy the first 6 months and quickly flame-out, due to exposure from the SO or financial problems. It's important to remember if you're married, the higher volume of girls you're seeing directly increases your risk of exposure. So if you want to have a long career in the bowl or at least be able to retire with your nuts still in tact, then understand your situation, define your own success, and be smart. We will love to hear your stories and exploits regardless of how much you spend and how many girls you see. It's the different approaches that make things interesting and helps us all learn something new.[/QUOTE]From a guy who must know...I have reduced my budget from $$ to $ and it's a lot tougher. Had to do with my situation but even anything above $ goes down much better. Must be why Walmart always prices in weird uneven numbers...LOL.

[QUOTE=Tommyboy;2099300]I thought this experience so unusual that I would share with you guys. After breaking up with my last SB, I couldn't find anything for a couple months on SA and needed some relief, so I started looking at BP ads. Made a date with a cute spinner, and soon realized she was not an average working girl. Not on drugs, had her own house, dean's list certificate on the wall, etc. So I have a chat with her about the sugar bowl and she says she hasn't heard of the concept, but is interested. She wants to quit the business and likes the idea of an allowance. We settle on an amount, and so far its working. She pulled her BP ad and changed her phone no.

So now there is only one problem, and I welcome your comments on this. The sex is meh. I thought it would improve, but it's still lame escort sex, quick BJ, lay down and open the legs. She doesn't seem to enjoy it. Kind of understandable given her background, still I was hoping for GFE, and she hasn't heard of that concept either. Have you ever been with girls who look super sexy, but just aren't when the get in the sack?[/QUOTE]I reserved comment for a while here because others' opinions may vary here. But, based on the types of girls I see, I think someone trying to migrate from a BP girl (even a high class one) to the SB scene is up against major challenges. First, she's already in a situation that by all rights should provide her more income per hour than an SB would make, so she's a little spoiled in that regard. BP opens her customer base to guys who won't or can't pay for SD membership, and thus she is already a higher volume girl. That alone marks her off the list of what I would be looking for. The fact she is lousy in bed means she could run the risk of SDs like me who are insulted by being treated like an hourly customer, and would end up not gifting her for lousy sex and a rushed job even if she's established in her daytime career and educated. If she is not performing well sexually at the BP girl level she would be a super dud as an SB, in my opinion.

Part of the allure and excitement that I find in SBs is the fact that they genuinely enjoy sex. The allowance is just something to distance herself from the SD in a way that she can focus on her own fantasies, in the same way we want to distance ourselves from emotional attachment to them. I try to weed out the would-be pros and former pros in my searches and follow up conversations (which is not always easy and occasionally leads to wasted time).

I actually see SB as a stepping stone where a girl can figure out whether she is cold enough to be a pro, or if she just likes the idea of an older partner and mentor that can help her move past her current position in life. Most of the SBs that have ranked high with me have a genuine attraction to older men, and older successful men in particular. A true SB would really like to minimize their quantity of sex partners and find one that can REALLY take care of them. There are varying degrees of SBs below that, some of whom don't care how many guys they fuck as long as they reach a certain income level, and I see most of that type as a future escort even if they don't realize it yet.

It's a great question and a very worthwhile discussion, particularly considering the subject line of this thread (amateurs or not). I just think it's very hard for someone who has been pro to go backwards to being an SB amateur in search of a secure allowance. Seems counter-productive IMO? One mans opinion...

In the early hours of the morning, in a suite at the MC Resort in Las Vegas, I had one of the most enjoyable sexual encounters of my 56 year old life. My 20 year old Amerasian friend arrived early and we had 6 hours of talking, tasting, listening, exploring, penetrating, and coming. Feb 11 2013 was the last time I had sex with my Ex, the night our marriage ended. The joy of tasting the wet warm and almost cliche tight flower of my friend is beyond my ability to describe. I've had some medical issues that sometimes gave me ED problems during my marriage. That was not remotely a problem last night. In fact I am wondering now if the ED was more a symptom of the routine semi comatose sex my Ex provided rather than my Cardiac problems.

I wish I had the skill to adequately describe my encounter in a way that was entertaining for my fellow SD's Unfortunately all I can offer is that I am the happiest and most physically satisfied that I've been in years... And we are getting together again on Thursday!

By the way, other than ordering some room service food for her, no money was exchanged, no talk of compensation, nothing. I did slip a gift card into her bag while she was in the shower and it was very much appreciated. Thanks again for the Seniors who offered advice and encouragement during my first tentative steps in the Sugar Bowl.

[QUOTE=Tommyboy;2099300]I thought this experience so unusual that I would share with you guys. After breaking up with my last SB, I couldn't find anything for a couple months on SA and needed some relief, so I started looking at BP ads. Made a date with a cute spinner, and soon realized she was not an average working girl. Not on drugs, had her own house, dean's list certificate on the wall, etc. So I have a chat with her about the sugar bowl and she says she hasn't heard of the concept, but is interested. She wants to quit the business and likes the idea of an allowance. We settle on an amount, and so far its working. She pulled her BP ad and changed her phone no.

So now there is only one problem, and I welcome your comments on this. The sex is meh. I thought it would improve, but it's still lame escort sex, quick BJ, lay down and open the legs. She doesn't seem to enjoy it. Kind of understandable given her background, still I was hoping for GFE, and she hasn't heard of that concept either. Have you ever been with girls who look super sexy, but just aren't when the get in the sack?[/QUOTE]I like the idea of a chat with her about what your needs are. Some girls just do not love sex and never will others will treat it as means to an end. But, if you are an attentive lover you might back off on the make out scene and work on pleasuring her. First with a long massage followed by clitoral stim, oral, and finally intercourse. If she has not had an O by the time you have done all that then either 1) you don't have skills in the pleasuring department, or 2) she is frigid, perhaps damaged goods from trauma, abuse, or whatever.

Did a M&G last night, drive 3 hours to Charleston for this one. She assured me sex was on the table after a M&G. Her photos on her profile were waist up, hair done, makeup, likely a professional photo. She looked hot on there. We had been emailing and texting for over a week. Hundreds of texts (lots of work and I'm cutting back on this aspect now).

So I show up, settle in with a beer and wait for her. She texts she has arrived and is looking for me. Well, she walked right by and I did not recognize her. Yep, you guessed it, she was ugly as sin. Girl has on baggy jeans, was short stocky, massive, big boned girl, hair pulled back, no makeup. ETC., She was 26, but looked like an un-kept middle aged housewife. My first thought was literally, "you couldn't pay ME to fuck you.".

She was an educated, well spoken girl. I drove four hours, so I figured we could have a few drinks, might as well. She had a huge chest, but no ass, and I don't care for women with a big bone structure. She was nearly as wide as she was tall. Totally not my type. She even told me she had a few men show up and walk off. I was like, "didn't that tell you something, be honest with who you are!

She did say she wanted to meet for sex dates and told me she likes sex. Really, no shit, as I doubt most guys would do you for free, was what I was thinking. I went along with it, and was polite, bought her dinner, etc. But will not be in contact.

Moral of the story was not so much I felt mislead, as that will happen with this hobby, but was anger at myself for all the damn time spent texting and emailing and realizing I was going to have to start all over with that, with another girl.

For that reason, I'm going to start recycling and saving texts and email. LOL.

Well, off to the hunting grounds to try and find another.

In the past I've had a couple of times in civy dating M&Gs that were disappointing in the sense that the reality didn't quite live up to the photo, but I think I was lucky in that I don't think any of them were intentional false advertising cases. My SB meets have been the opposite -- their real looks have turned out as good as or better than their photos. Maybe one key to success has been asking early on for recent photos (in addition to any profile pics), and if any aspect of photos was dodgy or seemed to be hiding something I asked for a few more. Be wary of photos that have been filtered with instagram and the like. Don't worry if their profile pics are dodgy or limited, they may just want privacy, its the ones you receive in follow up that matter most.

That sucks that that happened to you after a long drive like that, I can imagine how disappointing it must have been. It sounds like she willingly misrepresented herself, and in that case I would have felt no guilt in just walking away like she said other guys had done.

Some FB research on the girl once I know her name has actually saved me from wasting time on a pig or two, since the photos they post there tend to reveal more.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2100452]
Some FB research on the girl once I know her name has actually saved me from wasting time on a pig or two, since the photos they post there tend to reveal more.[/QUOTE]I agree. I have been trying to find twitter, FB or just google image search gave me good details. Many of the newbies don't know that their real email or phone number can give lot more details. I just found one POT SB with fraud charges or one POT with all kind of smoke, going with others..! It helped me...to avoid those POTs.

Met a civilian in real life and turned her into a SB? Someone you met socially who you were able to make a SD / sb proposal to? Either a social acquaintance or a total stranger. I met someone and was curious how to approach it, or even if you all think it could be done. I think it it can be done. A SB I was emailing with some time ago advised me she got into the SB scene because an older, well dressed but not attractive gentleman approached her on the street, gave her his card and basically propositioned her while she was on her way to a date with someone her own age. After drinks with the young loser her own age, she decided to call the gent. And entered the world of SD / sb relations. I'm not smooth or "suave" but the SB pool in my area seems weak, which makes the ones who are around more in demand. It's hard to even get a response on any of the websites.

In my current case, I have to be super careful, and if she told anyone it could have repercussions for me, since we have some mutual acquaintances.

I await your responses.

Norm!

Well the closest you can get to an amateur is to be the first guy to pay her. That's always my ultimate goal. But hard to find. I have done it more than a few times for sure. But need some utr's to fill in along the way.

Quantity over Quality.

If you have enough quantity there will always be some quality in there. As far as I am concerned every girl is an unknown (looks and financial status aside) until you meet in the FC.

Budgeting.

I always start out with the $ per visit, but I know there are always going to be extra payments for one thing an another. So far this year I am at about $.3 overall. But my ATF is at $.5. If I started out at $$ it would probably end up at $$.5. Lets call it SB creep.

Size.

Yes it does matter. For anal a girl may prefer a smaller one. Just to stare at or give a HJ. The bigger the better. For intercourse usually above average helps. But for enough sugar you will always have the biggest one ever.

I was with a utr girl not long ago.

I say "so how do like daddies big cock".

She says "I've seen bigger".

I guess I wasn't paying her enough. LOL.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2100341]

For that reason, I'm going to start recycling and saving texts and email. LOL.

Well, off to the hunting grounds to try and find another.[/QUOTE]I've come to expect certain questions to come up before the M&G. At first I'd cut and paste from past emails, but now I just have it saved on a word document.

I have my thought out responses to different questions ready to go, but would make some quick edits when necessary.

At Rouleur: Congrats on your good time. Are there plans to see her again?

Man how come you SOB's didn't turn me on to this world before? Wow! I've had a few successful encounters, but tonight my work finally paid off. Up at 10 am and decided I was going to get laid tonight by a true SB, under age 24 who was sweet and leave no doubt in my mind I wanted to come back. All the rest were so so, but sketchy for one reason or another.

So I started the mass, but thoughtful emails. Sent out 21 in all and got 11 responses within 6 hours. Narrowed those down to three I was texting and all three were willing to go out tonight. Went with my gut, ironically the only one were there was no discussion of sex, or price. We had not time, so we just met.

She was 20,5'2 120 pounds, very pretty down to earth small town girl. No baggage, fresh on SA. Drove two hours to her town and met for dinner. This girl was as advertised! Sweet, bubbly, touchy feely, pretty and had me wanting her the moment she walked in.

Finished up dinner and went to her car (her request) and chatted. We began kissing. I asked her if she was open for some intimacy and like a true lady, she said, "I really like you and I am attracted to you, maybe sometime" Asked her if she wanted to get a room at nice hotel and she agreed.

At the hotel, it was on. Great, great GFE sex. I went DATY on her and she had a massive screaming orgasm, jumped on top of me and rode me like a wild bronco. I thought I must be fucking dreaming. Only issue was no protection, but mid way through I asked her if she could get pregnant and she assured me she was on the pill. (this brings up another topic, as all these girls I've been with don't even mention condoms, there are fine and down with going bare back, so how do we know they are not out to trap one of us?).

Her pussy was wet, tight, pink and pretty. This girl was beautiful, sweet and I could not resist. I came inside her, so I hope like a mother she was not fibbing about being on birth control. How do you guys handle this? We laid and chatted for about for about an hour and then she went down on me. Very sensual, slow BBBJ and we went at it again.

I want to thank everyone for the sound advise here. It paid off in a great way tonight and I finally figured out why we do this. It can be unbelievable rewarding! I treated this girl as she deserved, kind with respect, gentle, and aimed to please. She was most grateful and so was I!

The kicker? When we finally discussed money, she said how about $100. I gave her $400! She about teared up. Grateful and as sweet as could be. She told me she really enjoyed the sex, said it was unlike anything she had before. Said her ex boyfriend was all about himself.

What a night!

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2101095]Man how come you SOB's didn't turn me on to this world before? Wow! I've had a few successful encounters, but tonight my work finally paid off. Up at 10 am and decided I was going to get laid tonight by a true SB, under age 24 who was sweet and leave no doubt in my mind I wanted to come back. All the rest were so so, but sketchy for one reason or another.

So I started the mass, but thoughtful emails. Sent out 21 in all and got 11 responses within 6 hours. Narrowed those down to three I was texting and all three were willing to go out tonight. Went with my gut, ironically the only one were there was no discussion of sex, or price. We had not time, so we just met.

She was 20,5'2 120 pounds, very pretty down to earth small town girl. No baggage, fresh on SA. Drove two hours to her town and met for dinner. This girl was as advertised! Sweet, bubbly, touchy feely, pretty and had me wanting her the moment she walked in.

Finished up dinner and went to her car (her request) and chatted. We began kissing. I asked her if she was open for some intimacy and like a true lady, she said, "I really like you and I am attracted to you, maybe sometime" Asked her if she wanted to get a room at nice hotel and she agreed.

At the hotel, it was on. Great, great GFE sex. I went DATY on her and she had a massive screaming orgasm, jumped on top of me and rode me like a wild bronco. I thought I must be fucking dreaming. Only issue was no protection, but mid way through I asked her if she could get pregnant and she assured me she was on the pill. (this brings up another topic, as all these girls I've been with don't even mention condoms, there are fine and down with going bare back, so how do we know they are not out to trap one of us?).

Her pussy was wet, tight, pink and pretty. This girl was beautiful, sweet and I could not resist. I came inside her, so I hope like a mother she was not fibbing about being on birth control. How do you guys handle this? We laid and chatted for about for about an hour and then she went down on me. Very sensual, slow BBBJ and we went at it again.

I want to thank everyone for the sound advise here. It paid off in a great way tonight and I finally figured out why we do this. It can be unbelievable rewarding! I treated this girl as she deserved, kind with respect, gentle, and aimed to please. She was most grateful and so was I!

The kicker? When we finally discussed money, she said how about $100. I gave her $400! She about teared up. Grateful and as sweet as could be. She told me she really enjoyed the sex, said it was unlike anything she had before. Said her ex boyfriend was all about himself.

What a night![/QUOTE]No comment, No comment, No comment. LOL. Join the club.

The only requirement for membership is the desire to fuck hot, younger (and preferably grateful) NP girls.

I think we can safely assume she was all of those.

[QUOTE=Dolato;2100940]I've come to expect certain questions to come up before the M&G. At first I'd cut and paste from past emails, but now I just have it saved on a word document.

I have my thought out responses to different questions ready to go, but would make some quick edits when necessary.

At Rouleur: Congrats on your good time. Are there plans to see her again?[/QUOTE]Thank you Dolato, we were supposed to get together tonight but rescheduled for Saturday.

My question to the Senior Members who've been in the Sugar Bowl for a while: Do you recommend seeing multiple Sugar Babies? My first impulse, now that I've had a great first time experience, is to just go silent on SA and not nurture any other situations. However, the cancellation of tonight, while understandable as to why, left me sitting here writing on this Forum rather than buried deep into some warm fun that I had been expecting.

Also, did you start off trying to see multiple Babies from the beginning of your joining the Bowl? I understand some Members have almost a Season each year where they can play but for others, what was the road you took to seeing multiples? Is anyone here playing this game by just seeing one SB at a time?

Would love to read some of your thoughts on this topic.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2100848]
Budgeting.

I always start out with the $ per visit, but I know there are always going to be extra payments for one thing an another. So far this year I am at about $.3 overall. But my ATF is at $.5. If I started out at $$ it would probably end up at $$.5. Lets call it SB creep.

[/QUOTE]This is a very good point. Give yourself room to grow with your allowance. Ideally your initial offer shouldn't be your top end. Exceptions being if you know that you'll probably only see her a few times, but if there's a chance of long-term potential then give yourself a cushion to grow because you don't want the "SB $ creep" put you in a financial strain down the line.

I recently canceled my membership at SDFM because while I had a few pots, after a month I ended up with zero girls who were even worth the effort to meet in person. Probably my worst fishing trip on SDFM ever. Granted I'm a little bit pickier now and I'm not willing to travel as far, but even when I expanded the search I wasn't really impressed with what I saw.

So I ended up canceling my membership and went back to fishing in CL. A year ago CL was pretty much a complete waste of time for me but strangely enough every single SB I've met in person and gone to the FC this year has come from CL so far. I'm as shocked as you. And these aren't fugly BBW Non-Pro CL girls. I'm getting very fresh first or second-time SBs. They all have amazing bodies, have decent faces, but take mediocre to poor pictures. It's probably how they got overlooked. Either way CL has been gangbusters for me lately.

As an example, I placed an ad a few days ago targeting Latinas because I have a thirst for them and I don't have any in my stable currently. Unlike others who specialize in CL postings in my area, I don't spam with a bunch of ads. I make a carefully worded ad that has the necessary keywords, entices the normal curious girls without scaring them off, and filters out the Pros. Then I just let the ad sit and stew for several days. Usually I don't get a response in the first 12 hours, but after 24 hours I get about 1-2 responses a day for about a week. There's so much clutter in CL that even most girls know to use the search function. So even though my ad is several days old, it gets picked up by the girls when they search.

So after placing the ad I got about 5-6 legit responses with 2-3 being good prospects. The other morning one of the responses was from a Latina who looked only slightly above average from her pic. But I was able to find her Facebook page via her name and found a photo of her wearing a bikini and she looked great. Though it was a couple of years old. Either way, it was enough for me to put her at the top of the list. She was 23, firm but real 36 Ds, somewhat athletic body-type but still curvy, and she recently got out of a long-term relationship. Fortunately I had free time at the end of the day, so we decided to meet quickly later on that day. Since I had quite a bit of intel on her already from her FB page, I took a chance with an "Office" M&G interview. When she arrived, she looked way better than her initial pictures. We talked for a while and she was impressed with the office and was pleasantly surprised that I wasn't a weirdo or super-fat guy. Many girls say they're new to SD / SB arrangements, but I could tell this girl actually was new by the type of questions she asked. After talking for a while, we got to talking about financials. She wanted certain major bills covered but I explained that while I could contribute to them I couldn't afford to pay for all of them. Now with a GPS or experienced SB that probably would have ended the conversation and left. But she mentioned how she was new at this wasn't really sure what were realistic expectations. However we got along very well so she wanted to give the arrangement a try even at the lower levels I offered.

So here is the best part, I then mention how physical chemistry is very important and that we should do a trial run to see how compatible where are right then and there on my office couch. This was the advantage of having the M&G in my office. It serves as both a public and private place and if things go well, it can quickly transform into a FC. She paused for a second but then after thinking for a moment, she was completely down for it without asking for any money! When she stripped out of her clothes her body was just as good if not better than the bikini photo I saw on FB. We had wild uncovered sex (oops) in various positions and then she took a facial and then licked all the cum off her face. I was in awe. God I love Latinas. She was new to SB / SD arrangements but she was a sex freak and truly enjoys sex and pleasing a man. To recap, I had BBFS with a 23 year-old Latina who swallowed and licked every last tablespoon of my cum and I didn't pay a single penny for it. I did give her a gift card I had lying around but that was it. I've never had this kind of experience from the girls I met off the SD sites. It was basically a free trial sex, LOL. I told her we'd talk the next day to see if we were both interested in proceeding with the arrangement.

So yes CL has been a real boon for me. My CL Teacher SB is more into passionate sex while this CL Latina likes it more aggressive and is a bit more freaky. Both contrast each other well and gives me variety. And there's another girl I met off CL a couple of weeks ago who is a little petite blond hottie, but I'll talk about her more at a later date.

I'm starting to think it's still possible to use CL to catch girls before they graduate onto to the SD sites. For starters, some girls don't want to have a public profile of themselves looking for a sugar daddy. They prefer to respond discretely to individual ads while they feel out the whole sugar daddy thing, so CL is better suited for them and less of a commitment than having a profile on a SD site. The SD sites will still have a higher volume of actual SBs. My CL ads my net about 3-6 responses over a week whereas on a SD site you could get that many responses in a few hours if you message enough girls. But if you have a talent for mining CL (which is pretty hard), there are definite first-time SBs to be found. I've had 3 genuine first-timers in 4 months.

[QUOTE=NormGerd;2100742]Met a civilian in real life and turned her into a SB? Someone you met socially who you were able to make a SD / sb proposal to? Either a social acquaintance or a total stranger. I met someone and was curious how to approach it, or even if you all think it could be done. I think it it can be done. A SB I was emailing with some time ago advised me she got into the SB scene because an older, well dressed but not attractive gentleman approached her on the street, gave her his card and basically propositioned her while she was on her way to a date with someone her own age. After drinks with the young loser her own age, she decided to call the gent. And entered the world of SD / sb relations. I'm not smooth or "suave" but the SB pool in my area seems weak, which makes the ones who are around more in demand. It's hard to even get a response on any of the websites.

In my current case, I have to be super careful, and if she told anyone it could have repercussions for me, since we have some mutual acquaintances.

I await your responses.

Norm![/QUOTE]There's a thread on another board wrapped around escorts becoming SBs. I think it's up to like 15 pages and gets quite snarky on both sides. Anyway, one of the posters is a guy who claims that the only true SD is one who finds someone who needs help and then turns her into an SB. He describes a clerk at a store that he frequents. He started with idle chit chat. Found out she was struggling and simply gave her his number and asked her to call if she wanted to talk about it. He has been with her for I think 3-4 years. He has guided her and mentored her to where she is now manager and doing great on her own... But still sees him. There is no set $ amount he gives her... He simply helps her. Pays rent, bought her an inexpensive car, etc. He's done this several times with several women over the years. It's interesting reading. He uses a term during the thread several times which I'm sure he would apply to what most of us on here are doing. He says if you're giving an amount of money per week, per session, per month, etc. What you really have is a "hooker on retainer". I"m not saying that's good or bad, and I'm sure many of us would agree with that. It all really comes down to semantics. The definition of an SB means so many different things to different people. Anyway, if you see that girl you're attracted to working at a minimum wage job, strike up a conversation and give it a try.

Good hunting,

Travelin'.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2101095]Man how come you SOB's didn't turn me on to this world before? Wow! I've had a few successful encounters, but tonight my work finally paid off. Up at 10 am and decided I was going to get laid tonight by a true SB, under age 24 who was sweet and leave no doubt in my mind I wanted to come back. All the rest were so so, but sketchy for one reason or another.

The kicker? When we finally discussed money, she said how about $100. I gave her $400! She about teared up. Grateful and as sweet as could be. She told me she really enjoyed the sex, said it was unlike anything she had before. Said her ex boyfriend was all about himself.

What a night![/QUOTE]You had postcoital psychosis brother. Now you have screwed the pooch and poisoned the well. She asked for $100 . Now you will never be able to go back and as the other bros said, there is always an upsell in progress with most of the babies. I would very carefully explain the her that your generosity was to secure her as your SB (initiation fee for you) but your usual is $100/ visit.

Converting a civie into an SB? Not in your home space. If she doesn't bite then she might talk this around. "You won't believe what this old dude said " "you mean Sara's grandfather, huh? " You can see how that could go.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2101314]You had postcoital psychosis brother. Now you have screwed the pooch and poisoned the well. She asked for $100 . Now you will never be able to go back and as the other bros said, there is always an upsell in progress with most of the babies. I would very carefully explain the her that your generosity was to secure her as your SB (initiation fee for you) but your usual is $100/ visit.
[/QUOTE]I assumed since she was in a town a couple of hours away, he probably had no intention of seeing her a second time. If that's the case, I don't see a problem with rewarding commensurate with performance. I always use the case of my one and only $500 date -- that was $500 I could have just put in my pocket, but what do you do with a 10 that looks like a celebrity, fucks like a dream (multiple times), sticks around all night and half a day, holds a conversation as well as she holds a cock, connects to you in a way that indicates she wants to be your next civy girlfriend (and would probably make a good one), yet asks for nothing in return and refuses to accept gas money even though she drove 2 hours to meet you and even got lost in the process? At the time giving her 2.5 x my normal date amount just felt right and concluded the date with a happy ending. Anything less and I would have felt guilty, it was required of me to cap off the date as a true success.

However, if he is planning to see her again, paying $400 on the first date sets the bar too high for future visits. One way to get that back on track is to mention some sort of change in financial position before the next date occurs, and simply say "I wish I could continue at that level, but I won't be able to" then mention the $100 amount and see what she says. Or simply move on to the next one. As long as you have enough flexibility to work a certain geographical radius, there will always be another right behind her.

Long time lurker in this forum. Repeat offender in some of the others.

I had to share some success I had with a young lady. I'm a member of several stuff for sale facebook groups in my area. A local young hot single mom posted looking for a room mate and offering for sale some hot shoes, outfits etc. I used my alternate facebook profile to contact her and politely offer compensation for her to model some of her items for sale. I'd pay the cost of the item and she could keep it. She said she loved most of the things she was selling but needed cash and she'd think about it. A couple of days later she asked a few questions about where it would happen etc. A day or so later she agreed. The first meeting took place on a weekday at a local state park. We met at the agreed upon place and she was right on time. I asked if she had done as I asked and let someone know where she was going and when she'd be back. She said she had. She was wearing sweats over the outfit I chose and had her heels in a bag. She stripped out of the sweats, put on her heels and walked across the little foot bridge like it was a stage. The girl really had moves. I enjoyed the view and her moves for a few minutes paid her the $15 she was asking for the outfit and thanked her for coming. I said I hoped we could do it again soon. She noticed I was visibly excited. She asked if that was all I wanted. I said I'd like much more but didn't want to rush things. She said it was clear I was excited and between the shoes, the outfit and my visible excitement, she was very turned on. I suggested that the park was deserted this time of week and we could handle things right there. We took care of things several times for her and once for me. She insisted on swallowing every drop. Afterwards as we walked back to the parking area I asked if she really wanted a room mate or just needed the cash. She said she hated the idea of the room mate but needed the cash. I suggested monthly compensation in the amount she was looking for in a room mate. ($450) over the course of a month. She said she really only needed $350 and would that be ok? I agreed and tried to contain my enthusiasm. We got back to the parking lot and took care of things on the hood of her car once more before departing.

Fast forward one month. I've seen her 9 times this month. Several times at her place. A couple at a motel near where I work and once or twice in parking lots somewhere for a blowjob or quickie. My CPO is well under $40.

I think she genuinely likes the sex, the dressing up sexy, the look of lust she gets from me, the connection and I'm sure the cash doesn't hurt. She freely said it's the best parts of a room mate and a FB without all the complications!!

The moral?? Another poster already said it. POTS are out there. You just have to look hard enough!