"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2093171]I went to the SD school of hard knocks. No brothers. No forum. Just golddiggers, pros and some good luck as time went on. I may have an mba in sugar dating, but I paid for it. Also I have always focused my CL and SD ads more on sexual fantasy than wine and dine or big money talk. Started out doing that pre-sugar dating on the civi sites. But these girls are much prettier and younger. Although looking back the civi daters were all pretty dirty in the FC. Even bagged a pro for free for months just appealing to her need for some killer sex.

Thinking about it now, maybe I will try POF just to see what happens. Some things never change. I will report back if anything positive happens.[/QUOTE]What would be some good examples of an ad based on fantasy? I'm curious.

I am such a nice guy. I did a failed M & G with this 19 year old girl a week ago. I had already moved on from even thinking about her and she called about noon and said she got kicked out of her moms. So I felt sorry for her and let her stay over. Just fed her some fast food, candy and ice cream.

We hung out all day then watched a couple movies and went to bed. No kissing or anything else.
Too bad because she is more than cute enough to bang. 5'7" and 117.

Suburban not urban. Educated and smells good. Not sure what's going to happen today. Nothing sexual that's for sure.

I offered to pay for her time, but she is not interested. Platonic sleepovers are not my thing,
I don't need company that bad, even for free.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2095446]I am such a nice guy. I did a failed M & G with this 19 year old girl a week ago. I had already moved on from even thinking about her and she called about noon and said she got kicked out of her moms. So I felt sorry for her and let her stay over. Just fed her some fast food, candy and ice cream.

We hung out all day then watched a couple movies and went to bed. No kissing or anything else.
Too bad because she is more than cute enough to bang. 5'7" and 117.

Suburban not urban. Educated and smells good. Not sure what's going to happen today. Nothing sexual that's for sure.

I offered to pay for her time, but she is not interested. Platonic sleepovers are not my thing,
I don't need company that bad, even for free.[/QUOTE]How the heck did you managed to keep your dick in your boxer with that pretty little thing walking around in your home?

[QUOTE=Smokarz_XO;2095581]How the heck did you managed to keep your dick in your boxer with that pretty little thing walking around in your home?[/QUOTE]You know, when a girl is not interested in me, I quickly lose interest in her. And it's not like I am not gettin any. Watch Don Jon. Interesting movie. If that didn't make her want to fuck me, I don't know what. She probably wanted to fuck him.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2095593]You know, when a girl is not interested in me, I quickly lose interest in her. And it's not like I am not gettin any. Watch Don Jon. Interesting movie. If that didn't make her want to fuck me, I don't know what. She probably wanted to fuck him.[/QUOTE]I'm of the same attitude, it's not much fun without mutual interest, even if that interest is based on dollars and cents.

As I've said, you're a good man. Also the Godfather of Sugardaddy's it would seem. Keep up the good work.

Zhuxi.

[QUOTE=SkinJr;2094434]If she meets me for lunch or something, I'm trying to decide on what to give her. I kind of hate to give her cash and reinforce the P word. I'm thinking maybe a vanilla card with credits as a gift for school.

Any thoughts?

Also, I'm running into a problem. I can't get to all the girls I've been talking to and it seems like many are dropping me cause I can't show up. Kind of like they think I'm full of shit and I'm just wasting their time for photos and shit. Any advice on how to set the hook?

Skin.[/QUOTE]Congrats on being able to keep the line of communication open. I'd recommend cutting back on the apologies though. Fine line between seeming apologetic and seeming sappy.

Have she mentioned any interests in any of the conversations? It'd be great if you could get her a thoughtful gift based off something she mentioned, even if it was brief and minor. Besides the sentimental aspect, it'll probably be cheaper too. If you were to get her a book related to an interest or some other product, you'd be out only .2 or .3 rather than $ on a gift card.

Not sure how to deal with your schedule. Depending on just how much free time you usually have, even a quick 1 hour /30 min set aside for a drink / coffee could let them know you're serious and not just a looky loo. Hope others have better advice on that.

Keep us posted on the hunt.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2095593]You know, when a girl is not interested in me, I quickly lose interest in her. And it's not like I am not gettin any. Watch Don Jon. Interesting movie. If that didn't make her want to fuck me, I don't know what. She probably wanted to fuck him.[/QUOTE]I guess I could relate if that was the case, because all I could think about when I saw it was how I'd like to stuff it in Scarlett Johannson.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2095626]I guess I could relate if that was the case, because all I could think about when I saw it was how I'd like to stuff it in Scarlett Johannson.[/QUOTE]Usually watching any movie with even the slightest sexual content makes girls horney.

So the little suburban girl is a bit lost in the big city. I blew off an unexpected trip to the FC (showing her all the txt's) with a confident 22 year old and let her stay another day. She did warm up to me a little after that, but in the end I went down in flames.

I got to feel a bit of her charms but nothing to convince me to let her stay any longer. So just another day of feeding her and hoping to get lucky. Tomorrow I am going for the gold with the 18 year old UTR girl I saw last week. And maybe see my MILF on the way home.

Like I said in a prior post I am reaching a little to get the true NP first timer. And she is. I just didn't get her. The one that offered to come over today was one that turned me down 2 months ago. She would also have been a first timer, so I asked why the change of heart. She admitted to finally bagging a $$$$ date. But it was just like I told her, these guys overpay for a reason.

So she said doing me for a $ didn't seem like such a bad way to pass the time after all. But I missed my shot with her so maybe in another week.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2096048]So the little suburban girl is a bit lost in the big city. I blew off an unexpected trip to the FC (showing her all the txt's) with a confident 22 year old and let her stay another day. She did warm up to me a little after that, but in the end I went down in flames.

[/QUOTE]So I have been trying Hollywood's allowance schedule and am striking out across the board. I just can't pay what I used to. I have a few possibilities so I will see. If I could date in the open and expose these Babies to more than a FC visit I'm sure I would have more luck. This is truly a rich man's game. I would like to be rich again.

Everyone has their own version of what a 10 is.

This is only for my version. Mixed or AA petite spinners. 18 to 22 year old NP's. Minimum 1 hour for a first date.

10's - 98%.

09's - 97%.

08's - 90%.

07's - 87%.

06's - 80%.

05's - 75%.

If I did the percentage for UTR girls only, the turn down rate would be about 75% overall. Maybe less. With a very low turn down rate even for 7's. Maybe 50%. And I have had many 9's for that $.

For pros (meaning they advertise on escort sites) there really is no turn down rate as the average donation per half hour for covered FS is $. No matter how hot they are. But I rarely if ever go down that road.

The girl pictured below finally left. After spending a total of 3 days (which included 2 overnites), plus a 6 hour date and a 2 hour date with her which cost me $.75 total (basically just feeding her), I couldn't get her to agree to my plans for her. And neither did any other guy. I doubt I will go to that extreme to convert any other girl anytime soon.

In response to my $ offer. 23.5"0' petite cutie nearby.

Very detailed and nice!!

I love passionate (you fill in the blanks).

I'm interested and want to know, where do I sign up!?

Will I see her. After some due diligence maybe. Monday and the replies are coming in.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2095446]I am such a nice guy. I did a failed M & G with this 19 year old girl a week ago. I had already moved on from even thinking about her and she called about noon and said she got kicked out of her moms. So I felt sorry for her and let her stay over. Just fed her some fast food, candy and ice cream.

We hung out all day then watched a couple movies and went to bed. No kissing or anything else.
Too bad because she is more than cute enough to bang. 5'7" and 117.

Suburban not urban. Educated and smells good. Not sure what's going to happen today. Nothing sexual that's for sure.

I offered to pay for her time, but she is not interested. Platonic sleepovers are not my thing,
I don't need company that bad, even for free.[/QUOTE]I can see hanging around a hottie like her, but with no apparent hope of a sleep in (the vagina) why would you waste any more time? I bet it was the challenge of the unobtainable. You thought you could break her down with your steely resolve. At least a feel up or a massage would have been nice. She owes you big time. Maybe she could refer her friends.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2097307]I can see hanging around a hottie like her, but with no apparent hope of a sleep in (the vagina) why would you waste any more time? I bet it was the challenge of the unobtainable. You thought you could break her down with your steely resolve. At least a feel up or a massage would have been nice. She owes you big time. Maybe she could refer her friends.[/QUOTE]On sat we did cuddle for an hour or so. I felt her nice ass, legs and loved her tiny waist. But it was predicated on her going for the gold. Which she declined. I was a little bored with not much to do and she was a real first timer. Very clean and intelligent. It was an experiment to see what she was all about, get some psychological intel on the mindset of these types of girls. Usually I just go straight to the FC. I don't really negotiate. So I thought I would give it a try. And try something different. But there are too many willing girls out there. This was more like civi dating. She made it pretty clear that if she wanted to fuck me it would be because she was hot for me, and not the money. Guess I wasnt her type.

Now I remember why I don't civi date anymore. And hope to get lucky. I'd rather make my own luck.

Summer is here and things are getting busier. My dancer pot went radio silent after what I thought was a nice meeting. Texted her a couple of times, nothing, so I'm moving on. My newlywed baby is coming over for a nooner, and I just got a call from a 36 year old recently divorced blond who I've been emailing. She is brand new and in her profile she just talks about wanting nails / shoe shopping etc. I'm not sure what to expect from her, I think she wants to be a bad girl and explore her new found freedom. She invited me over to a local resort where she is hanging by the pool with a couple of her girlfriends this afternoon. That ought to be an interesting M&G! I decided, what the heck, after I get done with my regular baby and send her on her way, I might go over and buy them drinks at the pool. We'll see what comes of it.

[QUOTE=Dsprdo;2097338]Summer is here and things are getting busier. My dancer pot went radio silent after what I thought was a nice meeting. Texted her a couple of times, nothing, so I'm moving on. My newlywed baby is coming over for a nooner, and I just got a call from a 36 year old recently divorced blond who I've been emailing. She is brand new and in her profile she just talks about wanting nails / shoe shopping etc. I'm not sure what to expect from her, I think she wants to be a bad girl and explore her new found freedom. She invited me over to a local resort where she is hanging by the pool with a couple of her girlfriends this afternoon. That ought to be an interesting M&G! I decided, what the heck, after I get done with my regular baby and send her on her way, I might go over and buy them drinks at the pool. We'll see what comes of it.[/QUOTE]Sounds expensive. LOL. If they say shopping in their profile I usually move on.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2097364]Sounds expensive. LOL. If they say shopping in their profile I usually move on.[/QUOTE]I usually am all about the 23 year olds...this woman is my "type" (petite blond spinner), but older. Some guys have discussed the advantages of 30 somethings, so after she messaged me I wanted to give it a try. I will be trying to get the goods without going to deep into the sugar budget.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2097364]Sounds expensive. LOL. If they say shopping in their profile I usually move on.[/QUOTE]I could write a book on the subject of shopping and what it means to women (which of course translates into SD tactics). You're absolutely right that you never want to actually take them shopping, but just understanding that it taps into something at the core of femininity and leveraging that to your advantage can pay off big time.

A large number of them fantasize about a man taking them shopping. Partially because of the idea of an unlimited spending spree they have in their mind, but also because of the psychological aspect. They know that very few men have the patience to follow them from store to store as they try stuff on, giving feedback on what looks good on them, let alone pull out their wallet and buy for her what she picked out. Because of this, it makes any man who can do it (without constantly sighing / taking deep breaths / rubbing their eyes in frustration and to stay awake, or just fucking losing it altogether and yelling) a VERY rare find. Because of the rarity of the find, it makes that man an idol of sorts (perhaps an unachievable one in most of the reality these girls live in, but they can dream can't they? In the mind of many women and true SBs, this scenario is way more attractive than cash, because it not only satisfies their financial need, but gives them the feeling of control they crave (because it would mean we're such a wuss that we'd be willing to follow them around and buy them whatever they want) as well as making us someone they can see themselves spending a lot of time with; suddenly we've gone from being out of their preferred dating age range to being soul mate material to them!!

The trick is to always make sure any proposed shopping trip or idea of one is always far enough in the future so that you're not taking her shopping first and expecting payoff later; really you don't want to take her shopping at all and won't have to if you play your cards right, you just have to convince her later on that using the cash you gave her and going alone is better anyway because she can take her time without feeling pressure from you to hurry up or hearing about how your head or back or feet hurt or whatever from standing / sitting / walking etc.

An example was a civvy date find that just liked older men. She had another guy competing for her attention that was closer to her age and while I had gone out with her a couple of times, even gotten some DFK and groping on more than one occasion, she was gradually falling in love with him (something I wasn't even trying to offer since I was in love with someone else anyway) and it was starting to look unlikely that she would ever let me fuck her. So one day I said that I was going to take her on a shopping spree for her birthday (IMPORTANT POINT -- Her birthday was 2+ months away! Everything about how she saw me changed at that point and that was all it took to get the pendulum swinging in my direction. No, I never took her shopping. Her personality and mine were so incompatible that she should have known we wouldn't even be talking 2 months later. But I got what I wanted, and I no longer felt cheated about the times I had taken her out to dinner (2 or 3 times) and got nothing in return. And, she never held any resentment for me because for all she knew I really did have intentions of taking her shopping at some later date, things just panned out the way they were destined to anyway. We parted on good terms.

The best analogy I can think of is if you found a girl who is a hot looking virgin (remember what I said about rarity) , but gives you reason to believe you're going to be the one to get it. Imagine the negotiating position that puts her in to let you fantasize that its really going to happen as long as you don't screw it up. Same kind of thing, that's how they see a daddy that's willing to take them shopping. But of course if the shopping fantasy is fulfilled first, there's little motivation for them to perform in return, so it must be used as incentive.

I will say that not every woman cares about shopping. I've met a couple of SBs who didn't really care about shopping or even money, they wanted someone they can travel to exotics places with. So, did the Mister Lizard dangle the carrot a little bit in favor of some happy fun time at the expense of a few personal integrity points? Hmmm... I'll never tell. LOL

You ever been with a hot young thing in the changing room at a Victoria Secret? I can just say it is incredible mental foreplay for both of you.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2097461]I could write a book on the subject of shopping and what it means to women (which of course translates into SD tactics). You're absolutely right that you never want to actually take them shopping, but just understanding that it taps into something at the core of femininity and leveraging that to your advantage can pay off big time.

A large number of them fantasize about a man taking them shopping. Partially because of the idea of an unlimited spending spree they have in their mind, but also because of the psychological aspect. They know that very few men have the patience to follow them from store to store as they try stuff on, giving feedback on what looks good on them, let alone pull out their wallet and buy for her what she picked out. Because of this, it makes any man who can do it (without constantly sighing / taking deep breaths / rubbing their eyes in frustration and to stay awake, or just fucking losing it altogether and yelling) a VERY rare find. Because of the rarity of the find, it makes that man an idol of sorts (perhaps an unachievable one in most of the reality these girls live in, but they can dream can't they? In the mind of many women and true SBs, this scenario is way more attractive than cash, because it not only satisfies their financial need, but gives them the feeling of control they crave (because it would mean we're such a wuss that we'd be willing to follow them around and buy them whatever they want) as well as making us someone they can see themselves spending a lot of time with; suddenly we've gone from being out of their preferred dating age range to being soul mate material to them!!

The trick is to always make sure any proposed shopping trip or idea of one is always far enough in the future so that you're not taking her shopping first and expecting payoff later; really you don't want to take her shopping at all and won't have to if you play your cards right, you just have to convince her later on that using the cash you gave her and going alone is better anyway because she can take her time without feeling pressure from you to hurry up or hearing about how your head or back or feet hurt or whatever from standing / sitting / walking etc.

An example was a civvy date find that just liked older men. She had another guy competing for her attention that was closer to her age and while I had gone out with her a couple of times, even gotten some DFK and groping on more than one occasion, she was gradually falling in love with him (something I wasn't even trying to offer since I was in love with someone else anyway) and it was starting to look unlikely that she would ever let me fuck her. So one day I said that I was going to take her on a shopping spree for her birthday (IMPORTANT POINT -- Her birthday was 2+ months away! Everything about how she saw me changed at that point and that was all it took to get the pendulum swinging in my direction. No, I never took her shopping. Her personality and mine were so incompatible that she should have known we wouldn't even be talking 2 months later. But I got what I wanted, and I no longer felt cheated about the times I had taken her out to dinner (2 or 3 times) and got nothing in return. And, she never held any resentment for me because for all she knew I really did have intentions of taking her shopping at some later date, things just panned out the way they were destined to anyway. We parted on good terms.

The best analogy I can think of is if you found a girl who is a hot looking virgin (remember what I said about rarity) , but gives you reason to believe you're going to be the one to get it. Imagine the negotiating position that puts her in to let you fantasize that its really going to happen as long as you don't screw it up. Same kind of thing, that's how they see a daddy that's willing to take them shopping. But of course if the shopping fantasy is fulfilled first, there's little motivation for them to perform in return, so it must be used as incentive.

I will say that not every woman cares about shopping. I've met a couple of SBs who didn't really care about shopping or even money, they wanted someone they can travel to exotics places with. So, did the Mister Lizard dangle the carrot a little bit in favor of some happy fun time at the expense of a few personal integrity points? Hmmm... I'll never tell. LOL[/QUOTE]I agree with you 100%... I guess I am just less of a game player. No offense. But I really try to stay on point. My pleasure, her reward. In the past I actually made that a topic of conversation right off the bat. Not anymore.

[QUOTE=Beachesnole02;2097496]You ever been with a hot young thing in the changing room at a Victoria Secret? I can just say it is incredible mental foreplay for both of you.[/QUOTE]They don't allow that in L.A... Lord knows I tried. But I was kicked out of a regular store after getting busted for playing around in the dressing room. Plus all major stores have hidden cameras in the changing rooms to help prevent theft.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2097571]I agree with you 100%... I guess I am just less of a game player. No offense. But I really try to stay on point. My pleasure, her reward. In the past I actually made that a topic of conversation right off the bat. Not anymore.[/QUOTE]I don't like games either, really, one of the reasons I stay with my current GF is the lack of games.

But, I like to have a few cards up my sleeve, comes in handy when you find one that is a little too well versed in the meaning of "take" but has not yet learned the meaning of "give". I consider a little psychological warfare fair-game, as long as I'm helping them further their education (in this case education on how interpersonal relationships work).

Like in the example I gave, I could have either cut bait and been out about $.5 in drinks and dinner date expenditures, or gamed a little, spent another 50 and had a killer all-nighter with no limits, so I opted for the all-nighter.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2097581]I don't like games either, really, one of the reasons I stay with my current GF is the lack of games.

But, I like to have a few cards up my sleeve, comes in handy when you find one that is a little too well versed in the meaning of "take" but has not yet learned the meaning of "give". I consider a little psychological warfare fair-game, as long as I'm helping them further their education (in this case education on how interpersonal relationships work).

Like in the example I gave, I could have either cut bait and been out about $.5 in drinks and dinner date expenditures, or gamed a little, spent another 50 and had a killer all-nighter with no limits, so I opted for the all-nighter.[/QUOTE]I played the game over the weekend. The girl was here for 3 days and 2 nites. And nothing. LOL. Total civi date. Cost .5 for the weekend. My time is worth a lot more. But theirs obviously is not. We do have fun around here either way. I really had a few good laughs watching the don jon movie. Even that guy was bitching about the quality of the sex he was getting. Admittedly the looks quality was high. But we are all spoiled brats on this thread.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2097608]I played the game over the weekend. The girl was here for 3 days and 2 nites. And nothing. LOL. Total civi date. Cost .5 for the weekend. But my time is worth a lot more. But theirs obviously is not. But we do have fun.[/QUOTE]See while I might have whipped out the shopping tactic, I wouldn't have done the platonic sleep over thing like you did even if I lived by myself.

One time many years ago when I was in my 20's, I was driving down an oceanfront area that frequently had nice looking girls walking up and down the sidewalk. I saw a nice looking, slim girl walking by herself, odd at that time of night and definitely didn't look like a SW to me (and that particular area was not known for pros anyway). I pulled up beside her and said she looked like she could use a ride, she just kind of nervously looked at me and kept walking, so I gently talked to her for a moment, assured her I was not a bad guy (and I look clean cut, had a nice car, etc) so she eventually accepted the ride and got in. Except once inside she told me the story, boyfriend just threw her out of his apt literally, and she had no idea where to go except to go somewhere she could phone her family (this was before most young people had mobile phones). I rode around with her for awhile, played the gentleman and good listener. We had talked about the fact we were attracted to each other, so after a while I suggested that I could get a hotel so she could at least get a good nights rest, relax a little bit and get her thoughts together and so forth. She really liked this idea. Just to be sure we were on the same page, I made sure she knew there were sexual expectations along with my generosity and what would happen that night in the room, and I got answers to the effect that this was not what she had in mind. So, I just took her closer to her original destination, dropped her off, and wished her luck. I wasn't willing to give her a place to sleep out of the goodness of my heart, and I would do the same thing today.

One thing though, if she happened to be at your place on the day after her period was over or whenever her sex drive peaks, you never know what she might do. I take it you tried giving her a few drinks and throwing on some porn.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2097629]See while I might have whipped out the shopping tactic, I wouldn't have done the platonic sleep over thing like you did even if I lived by myself.

One time many years ago when I was in my 20's, I was driving down an oceanfront area that frequently had nice looking girls walking up and down the sidewalk. I saw a nice looking, slim girl walking by herself, odd at that time of night and definitely didn't look like a SW to me (and that particular area was not known for pros anyway). I pulled up beside her and said she looked like she could use a ride, she just kind of nervously looked at me and kept walking, so I gently talked to her for a moment, assured her I was not a bad guy (and I look clean cut, had a nice car, etc) so she eventually accepted the ride and got in. Except once inside she told me the story, boyfriend just threw her out of his apt literally, and she had no idea where to go except to go somewhere she could phone her family (this was before most young people had mobile phones). I rode around with her for awhile, played the gentleman and good listener. We had talked about the fact we were attracted to each other, so after a while I suggested that I could get a hotel so she could at least get a good nights rest, relax a little bit and get her thoughts together and so forth. She really liked this idea. Just to be sure we were on the same page, I made sure she knew there were sexual expectations along with my generosity and what would happen that night in the room, and I got answers to the effect that this was not what she had in mind. So, I just took her closer to her original destination, dropped her off, and wished her luck. I wasn't willing to give her a place to sleep out of the goodness of my heart, and I would do the same thing today.

One thing though, if she happened to be at your place on the day after her period was over or whenever her sex drive peaks, you never know what she might do. I take it you tried giving her a few drinks and throwing on some porn.[/QUOTE]This was a total experiment. Sometimes I just go out in left field. This girl had only been having sex for a year. Super fresh in every way. I knew I didn't really have anything special going on and the only girls at my disposal were utr girls I could fuck just about any day of the week. In fact I turned one down that was willing to come over right while she was there. So I suggested I take her to the library for 3 hours while I fucked the other one. We talked about it for a few minutes and then I ditched the other girl who was a NP, but no where near as hot as this girl. Here are two pics from her profile. Afterward was when the cuddling and feeling around started. She seemed pleased that she won out. After that she took a shower and I gave her a new razor. I implied she could have unreciprocated oral that would be awesome. When she turned that down I knew it was over. It really was just a good reminder of why I don't civi date. Like when you have one too many and say, "oh yeah, now I remember why I stopped doing that". Sometimes you need a kick in the ass to get back in line.

I know what my type is. And I knew she wasn't it, (except physically). So I rolled the dice and crapped out.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2097743]This was a total experiment. Sometimes I just go out in left field. This girl had only been having sex for a year. Super fresh in every way. I knew I didn't really have anything special going on and the only girls at my disposal were utr girls I could fuck just about any day of the week. In fact I turned one down that was willing to come over right while she was there. So I suggested I take her to the library for 3 hours while I fucked the other one. We talked about it for a few minutes and then I ditched the other girl who was a NP, but no where near as hot as this girl. Here are two pics from her profile. Afterward was when the cuddling and feeling around started. She seemed pleased that she won out. After that she took a shower and I gave her a new razor. I implied she could have unreciprocated oral that would be awesome. When she turned that down I knew it was over. It really was just a good reminder of why I don't civi date. Like when you have one too many and say, "oh yeah, now I remember why I stopped doing that". Sometimes you need a kick in the ass to get back in line.

I know what my type is. And I knew she wasn't it, (except physically). So I rolled the dice and crapped out.[/QUOTE]Well maybe she'll have another falling out with her mom and call you up again, and you can complain about the blue balls from last time and establish terms that are more to your advantage? But if not, hell, you're in L.A. And it's not as if there's less than a few hundred thousand more like her out there that are willing to do more than she was. I should be glad I'm not there in at least one way -- I don't think I'd be able to stay focused on a LTR with all that stuff prancing around everywhere.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2097760]Well maybe she'll have another falling out with her mom and call you up again, and you can complain about the blue balls from last time and establish terms that are more to your advantage? But if not, hell, you're in L.A. And it's not as if there's less than a few hundred thousand more like her out there that are willing to do more than she was. I should be glad I'm not there in at least one way -- I don't think I'd be able to stay focused on a LTR with all that stuff prancing around everywhere.[/QUOTE]The only way she could come back now would be as a freebie. Anything else would be demeaning. But like I said she isn't my type. Every girl has to call me daddy in bed. And she said she wouldn't do that. That's actually a deal breaker for me. She just txted me now. lol. I know that pussy is sweet. If there was a next time it would have to be straight to the FC and no sugar past a sweet tea at mcdonalds.

Probably see my new utr tonite if this new girl I been txting won"t come over after school. She is pushing for noon tomorrow.

Here is my way of handling the SA site. With no real research, it's all raw and real and my own devised plan. More seasoned veterans at this SD / SB thing, feel free to chime in and offer this monger some advice. .

I wrote up a real and nice profile. Stuff about what I like, art, fine dinning, travel, etc. All true. Profile photo is real and I'm not too half bad looking. Girls email me daily on there. About 3-5 per day.

I small talk a few emails and then get down to business. I tell them it's best to be upfront to avoid confusion and hurt feelings. I tell them while I want to wine and dine and have fun (I really do) I also want and expect intimacy. (the word intimacy seems to go over better then SEX) I tell them I am willing to pay for all dating expenses and such, but will not offer cash infusions or allowances until they feel comfortable enough to take it to the next level. I tell them if we spend a half day at a hotel, etc, I'm willing to part ways with $2-$4 and if they spend a night $5.

All the women aged 24 or over have went for it. All those under age 24, don't write back. LOL. The women around 30, or the one over 30 I saw, really appreciated that I was honest and upfront.

So far I've met three women and has sex with all three. Two were outstanding and the third was a wham bam, quickie.

Of course there is MUCH more detail and sentimental stuff outlined in my emails, but I getting about a 75% acceptance rate of girls willing to meet with me.

Once I have them texting and communicating directly, I reel them in and ask right up front, I say something like, "I only expect intimacy with you, if you are comfortable and after you meet me and decide you like me, but if you do are you ok with going to a hotel to be intimate".

And again, so far, I've had sex with all three of the girls I've met. One age 33, the other 31 and one 22 year old. All were into the sex and had multiple orgasms and such.

I met one girl who gave me a BBBJ in my motorhome for $ LOL, but later she pissed me off asking for $1200 to spend the night with me. And threatening me etc. Crazy, so I dumped that one.

My goal is find regular hookups for a total sum of $300 per night. Can it be done regularly? I like variety and am really enjoying this so far, but with travel, rental cars, hotels and dinning out, it's not cheap.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2097811]More seasoned veterans at this SD / SB thing, feel free to chime in and offer this monger some advice. .
[/QUOTE]Hope you don't mind a less-seasoned not-really-a-veteran chiming in.

I'm thinking you're from the NC area from your other posts, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

I understand that the honey is not as plentiful in other parts of the country as it is in Southern California, but the sugar you're offering seems high enough to get you a higher success rate in more trips to the FC.

I think everyone's entitled to offer whatever rate they can afford to finance the hobby. One thing I wouldn't do is limit the sugar you offer to just a half day and offer more for an overnight. Try to leave it open and keep the sugar the same whether it's a 2 hour long quickie (anything shorter isn't acceptable to me) or an overnight. I'm sure some SBs will try to rush through, but you can cut them loose or tell them that it's not acceptable.

I think your $date is very doable and that should include sugar / room / misc.

Once you have some regulars going, you can lower the offers in new messages and start replacing the $date SBs with the $/ date.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2097811]Here is my way of handling the SA site. With no real research, it's all raw and real and my own devised plan. More seasoned veterans at this SD / SB thing, feel free to chime in and offer this monger some advice. .

I wrote up a real and nice profile. Stuff about what I like, art, fine dinning, travel, etc. All true. Profile photo is real and I'm not too half bad looking. Girls email me daily on there. About 3-5 per day.

I small talk a few emails and then get down to business. I tell them it's best to be upfront to avoid confusion and hurt feelings. I tell them while I want to wine and dine and have fun (I really do) I also want and expect intimacy. (the word intimacy seems to go over better then SEX) I tell them I am willing to pay for all dating expenses and such, but will not offer cash infusions or allowances until they feel comfortable enough to take it to the next level. I tell them if we spend a half day at a hotel, etc, I'm willing to part ways with $2-$4 and if they spend a night $5.

All the women aged 24 or over have went for it. All those under age 24, don't write back. LOL. The women around 30, or the one over 30 I saw, really appreciated that I was honest and upfront.

So far I've met three women and has sex with all three. Two were outstanding and the third was a wham bam, quickie.

Of course there is MUCH more detail and sentimental stuff outlined in my emails, but I getting about a 75% acceptance rate of girls willing to meet with me.

Once I have them texting and communicating directly, I reel them in and ask right up front, I say something like, "I only expect intimacy with you, if you are comfortable and after you meet me and decide you like me, but if you do are you ok with going to a hotel to be intimate".

And again, so far, I've had sex with all three of the girls I've met. One age 33, the other 31 and one 22 year old. All were into the sex and had multiple orgasms and such.

I met one girl who gave me a BBBJ in my motorhome for $ LOL, but later she pissed me off asking for $1200 to spend the night with me. And threatening me etc. Crazy, so I dumped that one.

My goal is find regular hookups for a total sum of $300 per night. Can it be done regularly? I like variety and am really enjoying this so far, but with travel, rental cars, hotels and dinning out, it's not cheap.[/QUOTE]It's working. Don't fix it.

I think the key is you allow the girl to control the pace and until then all she gets is dinner.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2097461]

The trick is to always make sure any proposed shopping trip or idea of one is always far enough in the future so that you're not taking her shopping first and expecting payoff later; really you don't want to take her shopping at all and won't have to if you play your cards right, you just have to convince her later on that using the cash you gave her and going alone is better anyway because she can take her time without feeling pressure from you to hurry up or hearing about how your head or back or feet hurt or whatever from standing / sitting / walking etc.

...
So, did the Mister Lizard dangle the carrot a little bit in favor of some happy fun time at the expense of a few personal integrity points? Hmmm... I'll never tell. LOL[/QUOTE]I've used this tactic quite a few times. But the offer isn't total BS, so I feel I don't lose any integrity points, LOL. I basically say we could occasionally go up on shopping trips out of town and other fun when schedules line-up nicely and etc. While the offer is sincere, the truth is 90% of the girls I talk to never last long enough to go on those type of trips or we simply don't have the personality chemistry to withstand a long car ride and hang out for hours. But for 70% of them it's a very nice carrot early on and makes them feel there's more to gain than just the cash allowance. With some of the short-term SBs / Booty calls, it helps to reduce them trying to squeeze every penny out of you in the initial negotiations.

And I have actually taken a few girls on shopping trips. If our personalities click and she's paid her dues, then I'm fine with the occasional shopping trip. It's fun buying girls sexy clothes and it just makes most girls very horny to have a man go shopping with them for the reasons already described in this thread. It's also a good way to hold on to a good SB and ward off other sharks. Even most SDs rarely take girls on shopping trips, so it's a rare event no matter how you slice it. I usually make a whole day of it, so it's fun for all involved. Yes the shopping part sucks, but she'll want to fuck your brains so hard afterwards, it's worth it.

I would never take a girl on a shopping trip during the M&G phase or in the early stages of a SB relationship. I've made that mistake before too. I only do shopping trips with tried and true SBs. Girls who I'm comfortable with and girls I know 100% know how to properly show their appreciation. Also if you've been with a SB for several months giving her an allowance of 100-200 every visit, she will already by then have an idea of your budget and won't try to go on a 500-1000 shopping spree. But a girl you just met will quickly try to test your limits which will cause problems.

Another PRO-TIP: Go shopping when there is a 40% off sale at one of her favorite stores or mall-wide. Don't tell her that you know about the sale. Just act surprised. But this means you'll get more bang for your buck, either she'll be able to get a higher volume or she can get a relatively expensive item for cheap, which she'll love because she can brag to her friends about (and won't mention it was on sale).

So these are some of the things you can do with a long-term SB.

I need help and guidance ...

Met SB and found her info which doesn't match what she was saying. She tried to come clean...like she was in military, someone used her pics and put it on BP like site...etc. I started believing as this SB felt caring. I asked her to coeme clear on everything she is saying...! But yesterday...I found some fraud and arrest report when I found the name based on her email name. Funny, email can give real name sometimes. So should I ask this SB to explain..or just not followup. I am afraid if asking to explain might trigger backfire and don't want to call trouble for myself. Note: This SB looks nice, tall and caring what I look for. But now I need to make a decision..

Thanks.

[QUOTE=KingGreg;2098192]I need help and guidance ...

Met SB and found her info which doesn't match what she was saying. She tried to come clean...like she was in military, someone used her pics and put it on BP like site...etc. I started believing as this SB felt caring. I asked her to coeme clear on everything she is saying...! But yesterday...I found some fraud and arrest report when I found the name based on her email name. Funny, email can give real name sometimes. So should I ask this SB to explain..or just not followup. I am afraid if asking to explain might trigger backfire and don't want to call trouble for myself. Note: This SB looks nice, tall and caring what I look for. But now I need to make a decision..

Thanks.[/QUOTE]I have been down a similar road before, and I would continue to check up on this SB and see if there are any other issues. Usually in this sort of situation I cut my losses and move on. Most of us older guys have clean records and good reputations. Not worth risking that IMO. If you are in Virginia court records are easy to search online. One recent POT that contacted me and used her real name as her email address, had a string of serious legal issues. I don't care to put up with stupid people who can't keep out of trouble, so I move on.

[QUOTE=JohnGSmith;2097939]I've used this tactic quite a few times. But the offer isn't total BS, so I feel I don't lose any integrity points, LOL. I basically say we could occasionally go up on shopping trips out of town and other fun when schedules line-up nicely and etc. While the offer is sincere, the truth is 90% of the girls I talk to never last long enough to go on those type of trips or we simply don't have the personality chemistry to withstand a long car ride and hang out for hours. But for 70% of them it's a very nice carrot early on and makes them feel there's more to gain than just the cash allowance. With some of the short-term SBs / Booty calls, it helps to reduce them trying to squeeze every penny out of you in the initial negotiations.

And I have actually taken a few girls on shopping trips. If our personalities click and she's paid her dues, then I'm fine with the occasional shopping trip. It's fun buying girls sexy clothes and it just makes most girls very horny to have a man go shopping with them for the reasons already described in this thread. It's also a good way to hold on to a good SB and ward off other sharks. Even most SDs rarely take girls on shopping trips, so it's a rare event no matter how you slice it. I usually make a whole day of it, so it's fun for all involved. Yes the shopping part sucks, but she'll want to fuck your brains so hard afterwards, it's worth it.

I would never take a girl on a shopping trip during the M&G phase or in the early stages of a SB relationship. I've made that mistake before too. I only do shopping trips with tried and true SBs. Girls who I'm comfortable with and girls I know 100% know how to properly show their appreciation. Also if you've been with a SB for several months giving her an allowance of 100-200 every visit, she will already by then have an idea of your budget and won't try to go on a 500-1000 shopping spree. But a girl you just met will quickly try to test your limits which will cause problems.

Another PRO-TIP: Go shopping when there is a 40% off sale at one of her favorite stores or mall-wide. Don't tell her that you know about the sale. Just act surprised. But this means you'll get more bang for your buck, either she'll be able to get a higher volume or she can get a relatively expensive item for cheap, which she'll love because she can brag to her friends about (and won't mention it was on sale).

So these are some of the things you can do with a long-term SB.[/QUOTE]First thanks to those fellow mongers who offered advise. This part of the hobby is a lot more complex, but at this point I'm addicted to it. Maybe it will phase out, but the idea of meeting young, pretty women for sexual adventures, that are not prostitutes is amazing to me. It fills a gap in a part of my life I never really had. I am divorced now for the past 6 years, but I married at 20 and never really had the freedom to date and try many girls. So I'm making up for it now. One thing that is evident to me is the generational changes on sex and how it is viewed. I tend to tread lightly with the girls on the subject of sex and ease into it. But these girls are different these days and do not care if you're just right to the point. They are used to it and many, in fact, want you to be that way. If you want sex, want it a certain way, just say so and they are fine with it. Utterly eye opening!

From reading the past 12 pages here on this thread, it seems many of you are hooking up for $100-$200 per pop, or am I reading into this wrong? I really had thought I was pushing things by offering $300, plus dinner, drinks and then a few hours at the hotel. But given the few responses here, some implied I'm actually overpaying?

I need advise on what to offer. I'm spending about $500-$700 per session right now when you include $300 for the girl, travel, hotel and dinner and drinks. Are there really an abundance of girls on SA that will meet dinner and $200?

Also, to the member who responded to me, what does "FC" mean?

Thanks,

Dirty.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2098233]
From reading the past 12 pages here on this thread, it seems many of you are hooking up for $100-$200 per pop, or am I reading into this wrong? I really had thought I was pushing things by offering $300, plus dinner, drinks and then a few hours at the hotel. But given the few responses here, some implied I'm actually overpaying?

I need advise on what to offer. I'm spending about $500-$700 per session right now when you include $300 for the girl, travel, hotel and dinner and drinks. Are there really an abundance of girls on SA that will meet dinner and $200?

Also, to the member who responded to me, what does "FC" mean?

Thanks,

Dirty.[/QUOTE]To each YMMV. Costs depend on what part of the country you are in. I think it is reasonable to get basic cost information from escort rates in that area. These rates are hourly but most offer a price that covers time from a 15 min FS to all niters. You are at the top of the market brother -at least with the total tab which you have to consider. If you can afford it and are having success then don't change. Your options will become more limited the lower your offer is. And make no mistake, the girls want money in their pocket. All the other stuff is nice, but your sex skills, dinner, and fancy Hotel really don't matter in the end. Of course there are exceptions.

FC =Fuck Chamber (hotel, apartment, etc).

You need to figure your budget and work backwards. Use a budget notel at $50,dinner and drinks at a chain restaurant or local place, don't drink too much, forget fancy wines, bring a $12 bundle of flowers. You get the drift. And be willing to walk away from a 10 you have a burning desire to have. She will have GPS and you will run the tab up trying to impress her.

[QUOTE=JohnGSmith;2097939]I've used this tactic quite a few times. But the offer isn't total BS, so I feel I don't lose any integrity points, LOL. I basically say we could occasionally go up on shopping trips out of town and other fun when schedules line-up nicely and etc. While the offer is sincere, the truth is 90% of the girls I talk to never last long enough to go on those type of trips or we simply don't have the personality chemistry to withstand a long car ride and hang out for hours. But for 70% of them it's a very nice carrot early on and makes them feel there's more to gain than just the cash allowance. With some of the short-term SBs / Booty calls, it helps to reduce them trying to squeeze every penny out of you in the initial negotiations.[/QUOTE]Yes, I should probably clarify that it's not a good idea to go around making big promises with early intentions of breaking them. It's just good to be able to dial in to whatever really motivates a girl (and for a lot of them it's to have a shopping daddy, for some of them its a travel daddy, etc) and use that to your advantage. I'm actually very straightforward about what I'm looking for and what's possible in my profile on SD sites. The times that I dangled the shopping carrot, it was usually to mitigate a situation where I had already spent some money wining and dining a civvy, yet saw things headed toward a no-payback situation. I've never told an SB I would take her shopping or traveling and then let her down.

If you're the type that actually does like going shopping with women, it's really an extra card you can play to your advantage. Yes sometimes lingerie peekaboo shows or sexy clothes with a *new* girl can be fun (key word being new), but the shopping should always be a reward *for something she's already done*, it should never be the dangling carrot to motivate her toward good sexual performance, because it is essentially giving her a bag of carrots and letting her eat half of them all at once -- she won't be as hungry for a while. What's more, her other boyfriends will also be enjoying her in the lingerie you paid for whether you realize it or not.

For me, actually going shopping with them is something I might do if I didn't already have a GF (thus didn't care about being spotted in places like malls), did it as a reward for past performance, and knew the girl was someone I really wanted to keep around. Just remember the act of going shopping with them alone is a gift. My current girlfriend loves it if I go to the mall with her (which I avoid like the plague), even though its her own credit card that comes out when its time to pay. She is just thrilled to have me present at all. It's almost like a status symbol for them to have a man willing to go in these stores with them and wait around.

The one thing I would say, if you are the type that likes to take them shopping, know your girl quite well before you do, because there is always the chance that she will try to go nuts with the spree (remember shopping is kind of like a gambling addiction for some of them, and they may not be able to control themselves). What you don't want is for her to come away from the shopping event feeling disappointed about her net bounty from the expedition, because if she does, the shopping has done more harm than good.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2098233]
I need advise on what to offer. I'm spending about $500-$700 per session right now when you include $300 for the girl, travel, hotel and dinner and drinks. Are there really an abundance of girls on SA that will meet dinner and $200?

[/QUOTE]Everything Fred said was true. I live in a large urban area where there are a LOT of girls from a lower socioeconomic status who are looking for a little help. I have generally tried to stick to HG's rule of thumb of offering $ per meet and waling away if they are not interested. I have pretty good success (though not as good as his) and generally the girls are 7 or 8. I have had a lot of turn-downs or non-responses, too. I tend to go for white girls, so that probably hurts some as in general they either can or think they can command a little more. When I go after girls who are students at the local party school my success ratio drops, because those girls tend to be a little smarter and also are generally from a better situation in life. My response rate from that crowd is lower even when I don't specify an offer right off the bat. I believe that if I went to $$ as a standard offer I would have more girls than I could possibly meet up with. This summer I have some free time on my hands, a little extra sugar budget, and a project coming up later in the year that will probably sideline me for four months, so I am thinking about going with a $$ offer, but only hunting a ten (or close to it). Of course I will keep my 500 a month regular and continue to fish in the $ waters, too.

Bottom line is that in your area there should be a deep enough pool that you could reduce your cost by quite a bit. The tradeoff will be more turn-downs and more work for you. It all comes down to what is most important to you, how much time you have, and what your sugar budget is.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2098233]
I need advise on what to offer. I'm spending about $500-$700 per session right now when you include $300 for the girl, travel, hotel and dinner and drinks. Are there really an abundance of girls on SA that will meet dinner and $200?
[/QUOTE]A lot of what you'll pay depends on the girl. I tend to go for the stunners. They need to be at or above the level of looks of a typical dancer at a high-end club to be SB material, to me. I could get higher quantity if I made some sacrifices, but since my annual SB season is short, I tend to schedule as much quality poon into that window of opportunity as I can.

I actually don't offer anything up front, I give them a gift based on overall performance / attitude etc. The few times I've discussed money up front, the types of girls I go for tend to blurt out prices in the 1 k-2 k range which is absurdity to me. The general target I have in my mind to give the girl is $200. My actual dates almost always cost me more than that because of the hotel, and the fact that I like making a date of it complete with dinner / drinks so my actual per session cost including travel is probably close to what you've mentioned, it's just hard to calculate because I sometimes consume more than half the cost of dinner or drinks, and a lot of times the travel is fixed overhead (I was already going to travel with or without the girl so I can't really put the cost of hotel on her in many cases, but expenditure is expenditure).

The most I paid was $500 for a perfect 10 stunner, all-nighter no holds barred dream date. She never asked for a dime I just gave her that right before she went home the next day (she didn't open the envelope until after she left).

I have been trying SD4 M and one thing I've noticed is a lot more scams than on SA. I just had a woman who lives in Ghana want to IM on yahoo, in an obvious phishing scheme. I also have a "Ukrainian girl" whose photos put Megan Fox to shame emailing me. If I thought there was a 50% chance she was for real I would be on the next flight.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2098366]A lot of what you'll pay depends on the girl. I tend to go for the stunners. They need to be at or above the level of looks of a typical dancer at a high-end club to be SB material, to me. I could get higher quantity if I made some sacrifices, but since my annual SB season is short, I tend to schedule as much quality poon into that window of opportunity as I can.

I actually don't offer anything up front, I give them a gift based on overall performance / attitude etc. The few times I've discussed money up front, the types of girls I go for tend to blurt out prices in the 1 k-2 k range which is absurdity to me. The general target I have in my mind to give the girl is $200. My actual dates almost always cost me more than that because of the hotel, and the fact that I like making a date of it complete with dinner / drinks so my actual per session cost including travel is probably close to what you've mentioned, it's just hard to calculate because I sometimes consume more than half the cost of dinner or drinks, and a lot of times the travel is fixed overhead (I was already going to travel with or without the girl so I can't really put the cost of hotel on her in many cases, but expenditure is expenditure).

The most I paid was $500 for a perfect 10 stunner, all-nighter no holds barred dream date. She never asked for a dime I just gave her that right before she went home the next day (she didn't open the envelope until after she left).[/QUOTE]Thanks, this is most useful information. I am assuming a successful date ends with her in your room and having sex? So do you typically pay for M&G? I know we are supposed to pay for the dinner, drinks etc, but do you offer an allowance then, just for them having come out? I recently started putting in my stock email (that I send out after I tell them I want to be upfront) that I do not pay for M&G as the first girl I met on SA, we met for drinks and I dropped $300 on her for an hour of drinks. Then never heard from her. To me, the arrangement is formed when she can and is willing to sleep with me. And I'm upfront about that now. I do not imply I am paying for sex. (which I am NOT) I just let them know, this is when things are taken to the "next level" and when payments begin, because she is showing me she accepts me and wants to play like I'm her boyfriend, etc. I refuse to see any girl who wants payment for meeting. Fuck that!

To me, if your some small town girl, where every job is $7.25 an hour if you can even get one and some decent looking guy, mid 40's offers you $200 to spend a day or a night together and you enjoy sex anyhow, that's fair. But you are right, many of these girls think they will be swept off their feet with fairly tale sums of cash. It does happen, but not to many of them. So for this reason, I have found some of the girls who have been at it a while, tend to have lower expectations. The newbies, still have the "dreamer" mentality and think rich daddy will come along and offer them $15,000 to look at their pussy. LOL. I've ran into a few of those and politely set them straight and wish them luck with their endeavors.

I'm taking back my offers of $500 for overnighters and keeping it at $300 whether she spends the night, or has 3-5 hours of FC time. If she is unwilling, or unsure on sex, well, then she got drinks and maybe dinner. I am a little leery of some of the girls who are willing to go straight to a hotel for sex. I think many of these are just working girls trying this game and I'm not into that. Sure, I P4 P, but I do this as it's different and feels like I'm young and chasing pretty women. It's the thrill of the chase and nothing I've done before has compared. I do always treat these girls nicely, even if they turn out to be greedy and nasty. And I have encountered one of those thus far. I think she was doing drugs. She was texting me demanding $1200 after a BJ and an hour meeting. She was terrible and when I told her off and explained she was going at all this the wrong way, she threatened me. I told her I was calling the police if I heard from her again and she went away. The girl was bad, bad news and scary as hell. I met her in Jersey.