"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Bear in mind that these comments are from one who's experience in this is limited to [i]one [/i]person, albeit over a longer period of time. So take that for what it's worth.

[QUOTE=CantWinLosin;1573496]When they start the "I'm seeking something non-sexual" line, I've learned to tell them politely but directly that they don't grasp how this works, they're wasting my and every other SD's time and to find some other way to try to make money. They seldom seem to get the hint, but let's face it. There's a certain level of selfishness in everyone who does this on both sides of the sexual divide, so it's to be expected.[/QUOTE]I don't think it's completely fair to say that [i]every[/i]one's time is wasted. It absolutely is a waste of [i]your [/i]time, and would be of mine if I was yet in search mode on this one. However, a compensated non-sexual relationship is certainly a legitimate goal, and there are guys out there who want exactly that, however ludicrous most, if not all, the posters on this particular forum would find such a thing.

SubCmdr has some good guidelines in his response to this one; if the significant sugar doesn't flow until [i]her [/i]sugar flows, it's less likely that these "platonic" types will take you for more than, as he suggests, coffee or drinks.

I do suspect, though not of experience in the Sugar Bowl, that M&Gs are, at some stage, a necessary component of verifying a POT's intentions with any certainty. Others might feel differently, I believe John G Smith does, but since what most of us want is essentially illegal in most places in this country, setting forth conditions in email, text, or even over the phone seems like a somewhat less than prudent course of action. Hell, even after all this time, my SB and I don't mention sex or money in our texts, though we do sometimes do some sexy talk on the phone. In my case, this is a holdover from dealing with strippers, but I think it applies in any area where you're talking about borderline, if not outright, illegal stuff. You just don't talk except face to face, and often, after both are already naked. (:

[noparse]/[/noparse]z

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1573726]P. S. I have broken my own rules and become E involved with my ATF. I will now stand and take my grade.[/QUOTE]I don't think it's possible to avoid this over the long haul. Human males seem to be hardwired to morph sexual attraction into a certain affection, at the very least, over time. It's not something over which you can exert much in the way of conscious control. The best you can do is be careful about paying attention to the signs that it's happening.

After three years, I'm not even going to pretend that there's not a fairly significant degree of affection on my part for my SB. Is it love? If anyone has ever successfully defined that emotion, let me know. I'm sure some would call it that. I'm certainly not going to leave my wife for her, but there's quite a bit else I would do.

As for the other direction, I'm sure there's some, but she doesn't let it get in her way. (: Women don't seem to suffer from this problem to the same degree as men. (:

Though I'd be interested in hearing what the resident sugar baby has to offer on that issue.

[noparse]/[/noparse]z

[QUOTE=Zomby;1575282]I don't think it's completely fair to say that [i]every[/i]one's time is wasted. It absolutely is a waste of [i]your [/i]time, and would be of mine if I was yet in search mode on this one. However, a compensated non-sexual relationship is certainly a legitimate goal, and [b]there is a guy out there who wants exactly that[/b], however ludicrous most, if not all, the posters on this particular forum would find such a thing.[/QUOTE]I fixed that for you. A legitimate goal? Sure. A realistic goal? Not so much. I would classify this with finding Bigfoot:"We are pretty sure he's real because we've read about him on the internet". These POTs are lazy and looking to be paid for hanging around and breathing, nothing more. And isn't "a compensated non-sexual relationship" called marriage?

[QUOTE=Zomby;1575282]I do suspect, though not of experience in the Sugar Bowl, that M&Gs are, at some stage, a necessary component of verifying a POT's intentions with any certainty. Others might feel differently, I believe John G Smith does, but since what most of us want is essentially illegal in most places in this country, setting forth conditions in email, text, or even over the phone seems like a somewhat less than prudent course of action. Hell, even after all this time, my SB and I don't mention sex or money in our texts, though we do sometimes do some sexy talk on the phone. In my case, this is a holdover from dealing with strippers, but I think it applies in any area where you're talking about borderline, if not outright, illegal stuff. You just don't talk except face to face, and often, after both are already naked. (:[/QUOTE]Verifying a POT's intentions and looks! How often has someone reported on the forum that the potential sb shows up 20 lbs heavier or 10 years older that the pic's she sends? The small blond 19 yo country girl turns out to be the chunky. 27 yo black haired goth."I just haven't updated my pic's lately." IMO, one can only go so far with text, email and phone calls. M&G's have there place. I personally want a face-to-face confirmation before moving forward and if all it costs me is the price of a drink or coffee, small price to pay. And who wants to be front page news when LE decides that this is the next big crime wave they must stop. Especially during the election season.

[QUOTE=ILikeHotWomen;1574813]The 43 yr old profile is especially funny, and I doubt she will get much response to such an ad. I don't know what she is thinking and maybe she could have gotten away with a profile like that 20 yrs ago, but I really doubt it now.[/QUOTE]I was around 20 yrs ago. That ad won't work now, wouldn't have work then and would never work! Jesus would have thought she was a total cvnt!

Stay Safe.

Strict

'you're talking about borderline, if not outright, illegal stuff. you just don't talk except face to face, and often, after both are already naked. (:'

zomby brought up a good point that frequently is the elephant in the room. those of us have enjoyed the escort side have overtly flirted with danger risking fame, fortune, and reputation in the event of a sting. one of the many things i like about sd life is the relative safety from le attention. many of our membership have suggested ways to couch the need we have for sex in return for sugar."intimate time together " tops the list, so something needs to be said ahead of time to serve notice to the interviewee that we mean business so that we don't waste time and energy. le would have to be motivated to set up a sting to catch sugar daddies in action and i don't see this being on the radar. they seem to sting high volume pros like sws or escorts in a hotel room where multiple johns can be netted at one time. we do need to be aware of the **** sting which le will pursue one john. i'm sure none of us would knowingly pursue an admitted **** girl but i think many of the 18 to 21 yr olds could be lying about their age to get in the game. so we should check ids in any iffy situation.

sa i browsed sa in dc and there are boat loads of gps girls. does anyone know of guys who pay $5000 plus? i'm working a 19 yr old now who wants $600 / visit and i had to give her a lecture. she is just an escort unfortunately because she is really cute. i told her to be an escort, get a website and charge $250 a pop and she could probably make 2000 / day. but don't pretend to be a sb.

I have been reading this forum, joined the site and already had 2 back at my apartment. Both 25 years and model quality. Damage was $$ and $$$ for each. Vey hot women, both gave bbbjcimws and spent 4-5 hrs. I'm really happy with the progress so far. Have two dates lined up today.

[QUOTE=Mr Strict;1575345]I fixed that for you. A legitimate goal? Sure. A realistic goal? Not so much. I would classify this with finding Bigfoot:"We are pretty sure he's real because we've read about him on the internet". These POTs are lazy and looking to be paid for hanging around and breathing, nothing more. And isn't "a compensated non-sexual relationship" called marriage?[/QUOTE]I think you're overestimating the degree of willingness to strive for as much as they can get among those in that segment of the male population that do this sort of thing. Sure, most may [i]hope [/i]for more than arm-candy, but many of them don't have the confidence, or risk tolerance, to pursue more. I don't want to harp on strip clubs, but I've watched a [i]lot [/i]of customers in those clubs pay a [i]lot [/i]of money to do nothing but sit and talk with these women, including women who I know from direct experience are willing to do a lot more than talk. These same men will often either become upset at the suggestion that their favorite girl is a thinly disguised prostitute, or be unwilling to take the next step in availing themselves of those services for a number of reasons, whether that be fear of spousal reprisal, contracting disease, law enforcement, social stigmata, etc.

The set of men who go to strip clubs for sex is not, in my experience, very representative of the set of men who go to strip clubs regularly. It seems well within the realm of possibility, not far-fetched at all, that the same factor applies to sugar daddies.

[noparse]/[/noparse]z

After having interviewed hundreds of girls on the sugar daddy sites. All the girls agree on one thing. The direct approach is always best. Tell the girl exactly what it is you are looking for and exactly how much you are willing to pay. I get turned down a lot as I am on a tight budget. But after years of doing this I also have a few regulars and see about one random girl a week.

Most girls on a sugar daddy site don't really know what they want other than they want to have good chemistry for what ever it is they consider fair compensation. And this is where really talking to a lot of girls pays off. On the one extreme you have average looking girls asking for way too much. And on the other you have beautiful looking girls willing to take far less if you can show them a good time in bed, show some patience and understanding, and can offer some good conversation and advice.

There is also a contingent of girls under 25 that only want men over 50. Sometimes its more of a sexual fantasy and sometimes its more for the stability and maturity only an older guy can offer. Sorry, but most guys under 35 don't think the same as someone over lets say 55. I never would have imagined that I would be at the peak of my desirability at 58.

All I know is the demand from the girls far outstrips the supply of what I have to offer. Oh poor me. LOL. Once the girls have been out in the sugar world for any length of time they realize the odds are against them as there is so much competition. Part of that is living in los angeles. Where every decent looking girl in the world moves thinking they are going to break into hollywood one way or another.

But conversely in the more out of the way places its almost worse for the girls as the number of sugar daddies is much more far and in between. All I know is that neither the guys nor the girls need to settle for what they don't really want as there is ample enough supply on both sides. If you put in the time. To make everyone happy.

Typically they all have one friend that introduces them to this or they saw a show on tyra or where ever. And some do come straight out of the box and get lucky. But most do not. So if you are a good guy, are willing to be a little patient and not bs these girls too much. You will eventually find what you are looking for and for the amount you can afford.

I just start this SD hobby. I was trying out craglist which is all bot and no ready lady. Was wondering if anyone would like to help me out where to look for a good SB. Thank you ahead of time.

[QUOTE=Majest;1575566]I just start this SD hobby. I was trying out craglist which is all bot and no ready lady. Was wondering if anyone would like to help me out where to look for a good SB. Thank you ahead of time.[/QUOTE]Majest,

Welcome to the Bowl. What I (and many of the other members of this site, I'm sure) did was start here (

[url]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?9746-quot-Sugarbabies-quot-quot-Arrangements-quot-Amateurs-or-Not/page150[/url]

And read forward. You will get a lot of great information, inspiration, and entertainment (often simultaneously, for that matter).

That's my prescription for the newbie in the Bowl.

Dr. Feelgood

[QUOTE=Zomby; 1575471]I think you're overestimating the degree of willingness to strive for as much as they can get among those in that segment of the male population that do this sort of thing. Sure, most may [i]hope [/i]for more than arm-candy, but many of them don't have the confidence, or risk tolerance, to pursue more. I don't want to harp on strip clubs, but I've watched a [i]lot [/i]of customers in those clubs pay a [i]lot [/i]of money to do nothing but sit and talk with these women, including women who I know from direct experience are willing to do a lot more than talk. These same men will often either become upset at the suggestion that their favorite girl is a thinly disguised prostitute, or be unwilling to take the next step in availing themselves of those services for a number of reasons, whether that be fear of spousal reprisal, contracting disease, law enforcement, social stigmata, etc.

The set of men who go to strip clubs for sex is not, in my experience, very representative of the set of men who go to strip clubs regularly. It seems well within the realm of possibility, not far-fetched at all, that the same factor applies to sugar daddies.

[noparse]/[/noparse]z[/QUOTE]Possibly, but I don't think so. I just think the strip club experience is a much different animal when compared to the sd / sb experience. I feel that it is a different type of need that is being fulfilled at the club that has little to do with actually having sex with the strippers. Using myself as an example, and I admit I did not frequent the clubs on a regular basis, I never had the desire, past the fantasy stage, to bed a stripper. And it wasn't for fear of rejection or for any social or legal issues. I just didn't feel the need. The club for me was a place to hang with the guys, drink, smoke, talk shit and have a great time while looking at naked women. Nothing more. Now, if little Miss Fuck-Me-Pumps asked me into the back room for some nasty time, I would go in a heart beat. But look for it? No.

And I can't imagine anybody putting in the time and effort it takes to meet a decent pool of potential sb's and then pay cash, in some cases a huge amount, to just "hang out". There are anomalies in every group and I think these guys are the anomalies in the sd pool. And, IMO, are very few and very far between. But a girl can dream, I guess.

Thanks Mr. Z for your thoughts. I always enjoy reading your posts. As always, this is just my opinion and counts for no more or no less than anyone else.

Stay Safe.

Strict

i think some of you are blowing the legal issue out of proportion. as hernando mentioned, there's pretty much a miniscule chance you'll get busted for prostitution in the sugar bowl. i've haven't heard of a single case anywhere of a sugar daddy getting busted for propositioning an of-aged sb. again, as hernando noted police want to net as much johns as possible per sting. it's about arrest stats, revenue from fines, and sometimes election year publicity. going after sugar daddies who are located all over geographically and have erratic schedules for meets would take a lot more time, effort, and patience from le. it's a lot easier for them to create a bp ad and setup a sting in a local hotel and net a 10-20 local mongers in one night.

also when i negotiate over text / email, i don't mean you should be overly graphic. i never say "i'll give you 80 for a bbbj every time we meet and 150 for bbfs". what i do say is that i'm looking for an arrangement that has physical intimacy. and then later on i may give an offer like this,"how about i gave you a monthly allowance of 1000-1200, which i'll give it to you in pieces 200-300 per meet." no where i'm explicitly saying i'm paying for a sexual act. i'm just giving my sb a monthly allowance which i'm paying in installments or i'm just giving her money on our dates. nothing illegal with that. sure i'm making implications that part of the parameters of our relationship is that we become "intimate". but again that's not illegal and le would have a hell of a time trying to draw lines with absolute certainty that i'm paying directly for sex acts. otherwise le would have to arrest everyone who gets on one knee and proposes to his girlfriend to be his wife. using an expensive engagement ring as payment, the guy is proposing a relationship that with absolute certainty will have sex involved. in fact, marriage isn't even official until a sex act is committed. so it's actually very hard to draw a legal line of distinction between a sd/sb relationship and a regular relationship.

besides, if le really wanted to nab sugar daddies, they could very well have the sb wear a recording device and then have le grab you when you leave the restaurant. saying things face to face doesn't give you anymore safety than text/email if le really wants to get you.

but still, i think there's little to worry about. maybe down the line if there is some serial sugar daddy predator who gets major headlines, then le may take a bigger interest in this arena. but for now it's pretty much unmonitored. again, our biggest threat is making sure we avoid the **** babies. it doesn't take a sting for you to get in trouble, it just takes an angry parent / friend / brother / sister who calls the police on you. so tread carefully with babies in the 18-20 range. any baby under 20, i always verify their age by asking for their facebook page. usually this is enough.

and some people are misinterpreting me and think i'm saying i believe in "no m&gs". that's not what i'm saying. i'm just saying do a little more vigorous pre-screening before you do a m&g. before you buy her dinner / drinks and waste your time, make sure she's pretty much already down with the program. that way you're basically just using the m&g to verify her appearance and any personality quirks. and if everything looks good, chances are high you could proceed to the fc right after the m&g if time permits.

i'm just saying, i'm hearing a lot of guys here complaining about girls wasting their time or being no-shows at m&gs. so i'm just saying move the m&g to "stage 2 or 3", don't have it as your first step.

[quote=john g smith; 1576019]i think some of you are blowing the legal issue out of proportion. as hernando mentioned, there's pretty much a miniscule chance you'll get busted for prostitution in the sugar bowl. i've haven't heard of a single case anywhere of a sugar daddy getting busted for propositioning an of-aged sb. again, as hernando noted police want to net as much johns as possible per sting. it's about arrest stats, revenue from fines, and sometimes election year publicity. going after sugar daddies who are located all over geographically and have erratic schedules for meets would take a lot more time, effort, and patience from le. it's a lot easier for them to create a bp ad and setup a sting in a local hotel and net a 10-20 local mongers in one night.

also when i negotiate over text / email, i don't mean you should be overly graphic. i never say "i'll give you 80 for a bbbj every time we meet and 150 for bbfs". what i do say is that i'm looking for an arrangement that has physical intimacy. and then later on i may give an offer like this,"how about i gave you a monthly allowance of 1000-1200, which i'll give it to you in pieces 200-300 per meet." no where i'm explicitly saying i'm paying for a sexual act. i'm just giving my sb a monthly allowance which i'm paying in installments or i'm just giving her money on our dates. nothing illegal with that. sure i'm making implications that part of the parameters of our relationship is that we become "intimate". but again that's not illegal and le would have a hell of a time trying to draw lines with absolute certainty that i'm paying directly for sex acts. otherwise le would have to arrest everyone who gets on one knee and proposes to his girlfriend to be his wife. using an expensive engagement ring as payment, the guy is proposing a relationship that with absolute certainty will have sex involved. in fact, marriage isn't even official until a sex act is committed. so it's actually very hard to draw a legal line of distinction between a sd / sb relationship and a regular relationship.

besides, if le really wanted to nab sugar daddies, they could very well have the sb wear a recording device and then have le grab you when you leave the restaurant. saying things face to face doesn't give you anymore safety than text / email if le really wants to get you.

but still, i think there's little to worry about. maybe down the line if there is some serial sugar daddy predator who gets major headlines, then le may take a bigger interest in this arena. but for now it's pretty much unmonitored. again, our biggest threat is making sure we avoid the **** babies. it doesn't take a sting for you to get in trouble, it just takes an angry parent / friend / brother / sister who calls the police on you. so tread carefully with babies in the 18-20 range. any baby under 20, i always verify their age by asking for their facebook page. usually this is enough.

and some people are misinterpreting me and think i'm saying i believe in "no m&gs". that's not what i'm saying. i'm just saying do a little more vigorous pre-screening before you do a m&g. before you buy her dinner / drinks and waste your time, make sure she's pretty much already down with the program. that way you're basically just using the m&g to verify her appearance and any personality quirks. and if everything looks good, chances are high you could proceed to the fc right after the m&g if time permits.

i'm just saying, i'm hearing a lot of guys here complaining about girls wasting their time or being no-shows at m&gs. so i'm just saying move the m&g to "stage 2 or 3", don't have it as your first step.[/quote]i agree with mr. smith and hernando that the possible legal entanglements involved with playing the game of sugar, within the bounds of all players being of legal age, are very miniscule. le should have and do have bigger fish to fry. but, all it takes is one politician or enough complaints from a community to plant a seed.

scenario: i'll use richmond. article comes out that richmond is crawling with sd's "preying" on women, some very young. suddenly the 6 o'clock news picks it up. the mayor, police chief, everybody is hearing about it and it's an election year. hmmm. good opportunity to clean up the town and gain election points. place ads on various websites, work large number of potential sugar daddy's and schedule m&g's at staggered times in hotel bar. working 100 sd's. 20 (and that is very conservative) will show up and 18 will get nabbed. and there isn't a police chief in the universe that wouldn't give his left nut for arresting 18 "johns". yes, you just went from sugar daddy to john. and as you stated yourself, it's about "arrest stats", not conviction stats. that is just the gravy. they have their headline and you have your life and arrest record handed back to you in a plastic bag.

how likely is this? not very likely, i admit. and it would only net a large amount of "perps" in the bigger metro area's, i would think. but considering the time, money and effort le puts into saving us all from prostitution now, this could become the politician's newest flavor in sex related crime that need's to be dealt with.

mr. smith also gives the standard as to how one should conduct their game. a vigorous pre-screening, that includes confirming her age for the younger babies and that she understands her roll and is fully aware of what is expected, leading up to the m&g, is excellent advice. thanks john g. for reminding the membership how it should be done.

stay safe.

strict

Over the past couple of month's or so, the followers of the forum have taken a couple of swift kicks in the nuts (sorry Mandy!) with Hernando's relationship with his ATF being exposed and JoesParty contracting HSV-2 from his sb. It seemed to be the 800 lb sugar baby in the forum for awhile with no one commenting much, at least not what I would expect.

So, my question is: How and if these events have affected how you conduct your game. Has anyone quit? Doing things radically different? Or do you feel it just isn't a big concern and you have changed nothing. For myself, I stepped back and reevaluated how I was conducting my business and tighten everything up a bit. Obviously, if you're not married, being outed that way is a not real concern. But having work find out possibly could be. And disease is always a concern, and what has been stated before cannot be repeated too often: This will never be a 100 percent safe hobby. So, I was just wondering what is everyone's take on the whole thing.

Wrap him and Stay Safe.

Strict

I from experience, second the wisdom of Mr. HollywoodGuy.

About 20% of girls I dealt saw my maturity as a big factor on their decision to share their honey.

About 30% of the girls that I met ask too much. At least for me, over $$$. IMHO, these girls quickly learn that only a few pool of players exist at that dollar range and they demand return on their investment with acts or requirements that quickly scare and drive non-pros out of the game. Again, in IMHO, patience is our allied here. Once girls realize the going market, they are more likely to be reasonable in their demands as they find they have a bigger pool to interview for the chemistry that's so important to them with the safety they want and the honey they need.

I have also found a number of gals who happen to stumble into my ads purely for the fantasy of meeting someone who is into the game. Some success and with more time and effort, these gals may prove to be a steady stream of honey.

My last point is the "fantasy" or the need for companionship that we bring to this game. I have experienced a good number of the girls that I have dealt with are drawn to the experience be / see of the sugar but also because of the fantasy, the illicitness, etc.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy; 1575503]After having interviewed hundreds of girls on the sugar daddy sites. All the girls agree on one thing. The direct approach is always best. Tell the girl exactly what it is you are looking for and exactly how much you are willing to pay. I get turned down a lot as I am on a tight budget. But after years of doing this I also have a few regulars and see about one random girl a week.

Most girls on a sugar daddy site don't really know what they want other than they want to have good chemistry for what ever it is they consider fair compensation. And this is where really talking to a lot of girls pays off. On the one extreme you have average looking girls asking for way too much. And on the other you have beautiful looking girls willing to take far less if you can show them a good time in bed, show some patience and understanding, and can offer some good conversation and advice.

There is also a contingent of girls under 25 that only want men over 50. Sometimes its more of a sexual fantasy and sometimes its more for the stability and maturity only an older guy can offer. Sorry, but most guys under 35 don't think the same as someone over lets say 55. I never would have imagined that I would be at the peak of my desirability at 58.

All I know is the demand from the girls far outstrips the supply of what I have to offer. Oh poor me. LOL. Once the girls have been out in the sugar world for any length of time they realize the odds are against them as there is so much competition. Part of that is living in los angeles. Where every decent looking girl in the world moves thinking they are going to break into hollywood one way or another.

But conversely in the more out of the way places its almost worse for the girls as the number of sugar daddies is much more far and in between. All I know is that neither the guys nor the girls need to settle for what they don't really want as there is ample enough supply on both sides. If you put in the time. To make everyone happy.

Typically they all have one friend that introduces them to this or they saw a show on tyra or where ever. And some do come straight out of the box and get lucky. But most do not. So if you are a good guy, are willing to be a little patient and not bs these girls too much. You will eventually find what you are looking for and for the amount you can afford.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ILikeHotWomen;1574813]Did these "babies" have the same profiles before you met up with them?[/QUOTE]No. If they indicate anything that smells like GPS, I pass. But I do seem to be a catalyst for profile changes; several ladies have changed their profile once they asked me what I was looking for or "how does this work?" and I gave them an direct and honest (though polite) answer.