Sunday advice aprreciated
Supra still closed for repairs so tried 2024 P Street. From the outside it looks like some sort of new age place, so skipped it. Any advice for Sunday in DC?
Cheers
This is quite a quandary...
I understand all sides of this debate. And, in all honesty, to a certain degree, I agree with them as well.
It's not like a wait person who is paid their tips based off a percentage from a set and publicly published menu as in a restaurant. Publicly published...on a paper menu...like a restaurant...not an implied fee, a usual fee, or an 'understood' fee. They can usually serve up little more than is on the menu and they typically have little control over what you get.
It's more like the bartender at your favorite watering hole...who easily has the ability to deviate from how the 'typical' customer is treated and pour you a stiffer or better drink or more drinks based off your repeat business or how much they like you or how much you've tipped them in the past. While they work off a set fee also, they have much more control over the AMOUNT of service they provide. I have bartenders that know me and treat me very well when I walk into their establishments because I tip them well.
It's also like your barber, who cuts your hair EXACTLY like you like it, every time, without asking how you want it cut, because you tip them well and you are a repeat customer. My barber does exactly what I want, when I want, and will stay late for me whenever I need because I tip him well.
Now, here comes the quandary...
Notice that this is a service industry, and the 2 major things that make a significant difference is repeat business and increased tips.
You can give a better tip, but if the relationship is not a long term one, it's wasted money. I've given great tips to bartenders in the airport, but then the next time I'm in the same airport bar, I get a different bartender and they give me the same old service the transient customers typically get.
What's the use?
In order to form the relationships needed for increased service (and tips), the spa girls have to stay around longer so they can make the relationships needed to garner the increased tips and clientèle. In order to make this happen, the spa owners have to keep the same girls around for a longer period of time. Naturally that has problems of its own, but if the girls saw something in it for them, they might not want to move so quickly to better pastures.
I remember the old days. I was a very frequent customer of Ginza (you know...the next best spa in DC to Downtown back in the day), and I saw Candy almost exclusively (but not quite exclusively...I liked to check out the new talent). Since Candy was there long term, I saw her for at least a year or more. And the more I saw her, the better treatment I got..and I do mean better! As the treatment got better, I'd giver her an extra .2 at the very best times. Honestly, it made her get even better and do even more. She never knew when she would get it, so she didn't expect it, but she got it when the service hit a high. Consequently, the service got better and better because she never knew when it would come.
So I really understand the desire to tip better for better service. But, we have to get something long term out of it as well, because the increase in tipping has long term consequences. It has to be in conjunction with a longer term relationship and actual better service or it's wasted and drives up the base price because the spas and the girls will begin to expect the increased fee for the same level of mediocre service and unspectacular talent that we seem to be currently getting.
Temper all of this with the economical fact that spa prices have been at the same rate for the 20 years I've been in the DC area. There's been no basic price increase with inflation and no economic fluctuation of prices. This is not the case for any other personal service industry. Even the acceptable tip for wait persons at a restaurant has risen from 10% to 15% to 18% over the past 25 years...and they have MUCH less latitude over what you actually get from the establishment...only in how it is served up. It could be that the AMP talent is going to places that are more willing to account for the economical inflation factor than to those places that are not.
I honestly believe we cannot continue to expect to get the same level of service over the years for the same price. That's just not economically sound. Now, I'm not giving more than the accepted DC norm. I show solidarity with my fellow mongers and will not routinely increase my base price without consensus. However I'm willing to consider some base increases in fees that are commensurate with substantial, long-term, and sustained increases in talent and service. And, with the nature of the business being what it is, I'd need to see these improvements before they would see my increases. I have no problem paying more for quality over quantity.
I will tell you, I've been to other cities in the US and we have the lowest prices of all. However, I believe our fees reflect our quality of talent.
Adding to the quandary is the fact that you can often keep the price the same and get better service if you are willing to sacrifice age and youth. I see a provider in Sac Town that does a straight up PSE...will freak you out! Fee is no more than DC. She's late 30's-early 40's and has been there long term...at least for the past 4-5 years. However, she is extremely enthusiastic and gives a performance you'll rarely see from DC spas!
I don't know quite how to solve this problem or I would have given you a solution. I suspect none of you know how to solve it either. I do know I want the quality, longevity, and service of the providers in DC to increase.
Of one thing I'm certain...the Chinese condos/spas are not the alternative. I went to one that very recently moved and relocated to an office building in Falls Church. Saw Cee Cee. 1.5. Certainly not worth more, if that. And the talent pales in comparison to the K-Girls. And the music made me think I was in a Chinese restaurant...jeez...not the best experience at all.
My interim solution is that I see a Thai girl regularly and only do the K-spa when I can't see her. No table shower (a big disappointment since I consider that to be half the experience), but I get the bulk of experience I'm looking for. Quality, longevity, and, the fee is 1.6...max.
I think the long term solution is for the spa owners to realize they need to provide their customers more of a long term relationship and increased service in order to get increased revenue. But we have to agree to make it worth their while to get more from them...and they have to make it worth our while to get the increased fee. However, this level of negotiation increases our vulnerability to LE.
Thus the quandary.
[QUOTE=Labiameister]Interesting conversation bros. My .02 is that comparing AMP's to gas or a coke is not relevant. Rather, AMP's are more like waitresses or any other service work where the house wages are relatively low and the workers make their living on tips.
That being said, there is a range of acceptable gratuity, below which you shouldn't go unless you flat out do not get the requested (or normal and customary) service, and above which you only go on the exceedingly rare occasion.
I liken it to a restaurant. 15%-20% (not that I use those percentages at an aMP) is for normal, acceptable service. I only go above that if the server really is remarkable and I only go below it if the server f*cks up, is rude, etc.
As far as exact numbers go, I'm with Jake, I can see no likely scenario at an AMP where .2 would ever be warranted, and I'd even go lower than that to .1 to .15 as the range.[/QUOTE]
AMP girls, how long they stay, the business model, etc.
NukeyNuke et al,
With all due respect, I think you need a reality check. Don't get me wrong! I preached and prattled about this many times. The AMP girls are people and need to be treated with kindness for that reason alone. You treat people with dignity and respect, no matter what they do for a living.
But these girls are, in the final analysis, prostitutes. That means that they sell the use of their bodies for money. There are many different kinds of women. A "normal woman" (if their is such a thing) gives herself to a man if she feels a connection and wants a longterm relationship. There are also women who give it up to every man they meet. These women are called sluts. But a woman who gives it up to any man who will pay her for it is called a prostitute.
I understand how easy it is for some of these women to beguile you. Some of them are indeed beautiful. Many have charming personalities. I have personally found that most of them have great strength of character. Many are also very kind and sweet. But as I've mentioned (and this bears repeating), they are prostitutes.
For whatever reason (poor English skills, childhood sexual abuse, extreme debt, etc.) these women have determined that the only (or perhaps best) way for them to survive is to sell what a normal woman gives to a man whom she loves. The consequences of this are major. For one thing, when such a woman makes love to you, you should not be confused enough to think that it means she loves you. In fact it has no meaning at all, except that you are paying her and she is taking your money.
For another thing, it means that even if you were rich and if you were to marry one of these women and keep her in high style, be kind to her, etc., the first time she got pissed at you (which every woman eventually will do) she's going to tell you to go fuck yourself and then go out and go back to work doing what she knows best.
Now we come to the reason they move around so much. Personally, I don't believe it's part of the business model. I think the major reason they move around is that they have unreasonable expectations about what sort of comfort, happiness, or satisfaction they can achieve in some particular place. When a woman moves, say from Flushing to D.C., she thinks that perhaps she will be happier, make more money, be treated better, whatever! But naturally this does not happen so she moves again. This is not a life that leads to happiness.
I think also that to some extent, the owner/operators of the establishments believe that it is in their interest to have new talent. They know the customers like this. They also are probably wise enough to know that it is in nobody's interest for the customers to fall in love with the girls. But unless the girl causes trouble for the mamasan or for one of the customers, I don't believe they will force them to move on. It just happens and they know it's part of the business.
So my advice is that if you are looking for a relationship, don't look for it in a massage parlor. Look for it online, in church, in some other venue where you practice your endeavors. But don't look for it at an AMP. To do so is to make your life and the life of the working girl more complex than it needs to be.
This industry is not going to change in the way you would like it to. It exists for one reason. That reason is to enrich the people who own the AMP's. They do enrich themselves. They do so because there are guys like you and me who are willing to part with our hard-earned money for a little bit of comfort and pleasure and because there are girls who need the money badly enough that they will sell themselves to get a bit of that money.
LexLuther
