"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Been taking a break from new meet and greets for about a month now. I cleaned out all my old contacts and started to look for some new girls.

So far this year I have dated 13 different girls (3 are the home team). Two others that were carry overs from last year that ended and eight new girls of which I am still seeing two.

This came to a total of 90 dates in the first 116 days at an average of $.2 per date. The home team accounted for 56 of those dates. I am now looking outside my normal demographic a bit, meaning they could be any age or race.

I only missed out on one super hottie and I am going to hit her up again but I think its a lost cause. So I have 2 new POTS so far. One is a FetLife girl I met at a party and one is a gym rat, very tall but very lean. I am not rushing out to see the obvious booty call / UTR girls of which there is an unlimited supply in L.A. And trying to find something more real.

Like Revvo I would like to find the "one" but its very elusive and probably not going to happen. So I try to stay entertained with whatever special skills or attributes the various girls have and even though I can't seem to wrap it all up into one super girl I manage to get what I need through all of them put together.

I will never go the AMP, SW, or BP girl route. Some of their pics are very enticing but I read enough other threads to know this isn't what I am really interested in. I think like anything else the longer you do this the easier it gets, but there is still a lot of hit and miss especially sticking to a strict per date budget. I know if I pay more it would be easier to get the hotter looking girls but as we all know that has no bearing on their skill level or personality.

If a girl knows for a fact she is a 9/9/9/9 you are not going to get her for $.2 a date. And I wouldn't expect to. I always lean towards body type and skills over facial looks and personality. It's tough when you meet a pretty one you like but the skill level just isn't there. As I do lean towards younger girls this is more of an issue as well.

But I would take a 7/9/7/9 over a 9/7/9/7 any day.

So, out of a possible 40 total points and being on the budget I have set for myself I am rarely going to go to 34 total points and more likely going to be at 30 to 32 points. (the home team averages about 33 points each)

But if I take the best qualities from my home team in each category and combine it all into one girl I get a 9/9/10/10 or 38 points. The math of dating.

How do you verify age of SB? Can you ask there DL? What if they don't have drivers license? Just wondering if any of you guys have to deal with 19+ year old look small though inreality.

[blue][deleted by admin][/blue]
[b][u]editor's note[/u]:[/b] [blue]this report was edited to [u]remove references to **** persons[/u].

i am aware that the vast majority of references to **** girls are legitimate attempts to warn other fellow members about how easy it is to accidentally pickup an **** girls, the potential dangers of being caught with **** girls, etc. however, past discussions in the forum has repeatedly demonstrated that the subject simply cannot be discussed intelligently, in any form or for any reason, without being misinterpreted, and without starting flame wars.

please do not post references to **** persons in the forum. [i]thanks![/i][/blue]

[QUOTE=KingGreg;2066635]How do you verify age of SB? Can you ask there DL? What if they don't have drivers license? Just wondering if any of you guys have to deal with 19+ year old look small though inreality.[/QUOTE]I will not date any girl that can not provide a state issued photo ID proving they are 18 or older.

[BLUE]Nobody said they were looking for one. In the USASG there simply are no numbers smaller than 18 that are allowed to be posted. Doesn't matter the reason. If that magic numbers is >18 don't post it.

This is THE most zero tolerance issue on the forum. Never, for any reason, even as a warning, even with the very best of intentions.

Again, these guys were on the side of the angels, they weren't being assholes, it's just not allowed.

A2[/BLUE]

[blue][deleted by admin][/blue]
[b][u]editor's note[/u]:[/b] [blue]this report was edited to [u]remove references to **** persons[/u].

i am aware that the vast majority of references to **** girls are legitimate attempts to warn other fellow members about how easy it is to accidentally pickup an **** girls, the potential dangers of being caught with **** girls, etc. however, past discussions in the forum has repeatedly demonstrated that the subject simply cannot be discussed intelligently, in any form or for any reason, without being misinterpreted, and without starting flame wars.

please do not post references to **** persons in the forum. [i]thanks![/i][/blue]

[blue][deleted by admin][/blue]
[b][u]editor's note[/u]:[/b] [blue]this report was edited to [u]remove references to **** persons[/u].

i am aware that the vast majority of references to **** girls are legitimate attempts to warn other fellow members about how easy it is to accidentally pickup an **** girls, the potential dangers of being caught with **** girls, etc. however, past discussions in the forum has repeatedly demonstrated that the subject simply cannot be discussed intelligently, in any form or for any reason, without being misinterpreted, and without starting flame wars.

please do not post references to **** persons in the forum. [i]thanks![/i][/blue]

[blue][deleted by admin][/blue]
[b][u]editor's note[/u]:[/b] [blue]this report was edited to [u]remove references to **** persons[/u].

i am aware that the vast majority of references to **** girls are legitimate attempts to warn other fellow members about how easy it is to accidentally pickup an **** girls, the potential dangers of being caught with **** girls, etc. however, past discussions in the forum has repeatedly demonstrated that the subject simply cannot be discussed intelligently, in any form or for any reason, without being misinterpreted, and without starting flame wars.

please do not post references to **** persons in the forum. [i]thanks![/i][/blue]

[QUOTE=FotoGuy1970;2063749]I've never, ever been able to get off with oral either.[/QUOTE]I could never get off from oral until I was in my mid 30's and met up with this horny chick from a phone chat line. She just had the most incredible vigorous technique and I came within a couple of minutes. Somehow that "unlocked" that part of my brain and have been able to get off with a whole lot of women since then from oral..just have to be really backed up and/or the chick has to be really good at it.

Also if you have intercourse for awhile and get close, then can have them blow you at the end and get you off more easily. But my point is don't assume that it will never happen for you...just keep getting your the*ck sucked by various women and one will probably do it for you.sounds like a fun project.

Actually something else would have to be going on (I.e. Providing alcohol) for CDM to even enter into the picture.

But for our own sanity, yes it's best not to surf the edge of age of consent laws. By that I mean that of all the 18-19 year olds I've met, I can only think of one 18 year year old that had the maturity / emotional maturity to handle being an SB. Most of them will tell you they are very mature for their age, and they believe that, but get to know them a little better and you will start to see the problem. Even in civvy dating, I used to have no problem fucking someone that was 22 or 23, but I found that anyone younger than about 27 or so was simply going to be too much of a pain in the ass to date (by that I mean in terms of relationship material) simply due to the maturity gap. One night stand after a night at the club? Yes. Girlfriend? No.

Especially for the married guys, I'd avoid the very young ones because they are the most likely to act sweet initially then do something really foolish or damaging if the relationship should go sideways (like turn Amy Fisher Gone Buttafuoco on you).

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2067459]
Especially for the married guys, I'd avoid the very young ones because they are the most likely to act sweet initially then do something really foolish or damaging if the relationship should go sideways (like turn Amy Fisher Gone Buttafuoco on you).[/QUOTE]Strange, I've experienced the opposite. For me, the younger they are, the less drama there is. But they just tend to be more flaky and unreliable.

The older they are, they tend to have more real expenses, bills, and responsibilities, which make them much more intense when things go wrong or if their expectations aren't met. But that's just been my experience.

Probably has to do that with the younger girls, I usually get the decent ones and not the Nando 1's. But with the older girls since I'm a relatively young guy, I just don't have much appeal with women over the age of 27. I'm too close to their age, so I probably don't attract the best MLF SBs. The few crazy SBs I met were all over the age of 25.

So I guess it's just a matter of self-selection. You may naturally attract the crazies from one group but not the other.

[QUOTE=JohnGSmith;2067608]Strange, I've experienced the opposite. For me, the younger they are, the less drama there is. But they just tend to be more flaky and unreliable.

The older they are, they tend to have more real expenses, bills, and responsibilities, which make them much more intense when things go wrong or if their expectations aren't met. But that's just been my experience.

Probably has to do that with the younger girls, I usually get the decent ones and not the Nando 1's. But with the older girls since I'm a relatively young guy, I just don't have much appeal with women over the age of 27. I'm too close to their age, so I probably don't attract the best MLF SBs. The few crazy SBs I met were all over the age of 25.

So I guess it's just a matter of self-selection. You may naturally attract the crazies from one group but not the other.[/QUOTE]We all have our sweet spot based on our age and experience. My sweet spot is 25 to 28. Out of hundreds of candidates from 18 to 40 something the mid to upper 20's hits the spot. Here's a summary of something I submitted several years ago on this site. Several single / divorced friends were talking about it in their dating experience IRL, but I have found it true in Sugarland as well. I'm talking more about Nando 3's,college girls, not Nando 1's and Pros.

18 to 21 young and hot bodies but immature into partying. Sex is recreation to them but no emotional attachment involved. They are sexually inexperienced and have no pleasuring skills. They want to drink ,420, and stay out late. They have no money at all.

21 to 25 still into partying but superficial. Sex is still casual and although a little more experienced still don't know enough to read their man's needs. Finishing college, maybe early employment but no money. Needs are high monetarily. Intensely into friends and hard to get them alone and away from the phone.

25 to 28 have a job and some money. More mature, not so interested in going out to bars and staying up all night. Have accumulated some sexual skills and some knowledge of mens needs. Enjoy a classy date but are willing to stay in and snuggle. Not feeling the clock ticking yet and do not want commitment This is a group the term NSA was created for.

28 to 34 Most are married or divorced and some with kids. They are into careers or family and the biologic clock is ticking. They want a family They are starting to look for an SO and will be decent short time SBs to save up some money, or to survive. They are starting to get jaded if they have not become financially solvent or have had a decent SO.

35 to 39 all have kids who are in the tween and teen years. They need money to survive and are starting get desperate about the future. The kids create babysitting problems and availability is harder, especially at night. If they don't have an SO or money they are facing a life of struggle and looking at being an UTR or old girl SB. They are aging out.

40 to 50 teen kids to early grown. These Moms are the type whos' daughters are our targets, not them. Old age problems abound, menopause, sexual dysfunction and bitterness. They have little prospects of finding an SO. They love sex and can be good partners. Lots of experience and enjoyment though.

50 + FUGEDDABOUDIT!

I'm sure all you guys can add to this list with your own slant to it.

While we're discussing ages of women and girls, I'd like to share with you a story that happened to me last summer. I met a 40-something gal on whatsyourprice and we ended up in the FC after dinner. I was disappointed when I met her since her pics had been photoshopped in the face. She still had a nice body so I saw her once more before she began asking for more money from me. The straw that broke the camel's back was when she no showed for an early morning rendezvous. She said that she had overslept and would make it up to me when she came back from vacation next Thursday. At the same time I'm talking to a 19 yr-old from the same part of town. She was eager for the FC but said she was going to the beach until next Thursday. Hmmm, now the gears are turning inside my head, but I'm thinking what are the chances of fucking mom, then a few weeks later the daughter. So on the night we're supposed to meet, she tells me that she has to bring the car to her mom since they share it. Out of curiosity I asked what it was, and it was the same car as the 40-something. She asks me if I can pick her up and without hesitation I jump in my car and off I go. This sexy young thing was a total freak and got me to drive to a local park. I took a blanket and pillow and down to the soccer field we went at 2 in the morning. What a rush. Everything was available with me finishing all over her face and tits as she licked me clean. I dropped her off at home and headed home to go to bed. I was awakened at 9 am with a phone call from mom cursing me out and calling me a pervert. LOL, guilty. I guess on the way home I should haven't have told the daughter about fucking her mom 2 weeks earlier, LOL. MW.

I personally have little or no interest in having a SB who's 30 or older, and if a SB is in her older 20's, that's even pushing it for me. I'm far more interested in the 18-24 girls.

[QUOTE=FotoGuy1970;2063045]*College POT: Nice enough girl, met for dinner. She assured me in texts that the arrangement would be mutually beneficial, but there has been no discussion at all of specifics. We are planning on meeting up later this week, but no discussion of what kind of a date we're having. She's really attractive and I like her, but I have no idea where this particular relationship is going.[/QUOTE]Well, I found out which direction the College POT relationship was going, and it sure wasn't the direction I wanted. We had a nice M&G that went well, so this week we agree to meet up for dinner and a movie at local mall, and since we'd have some time between the two, I'd figure we'd walk around the mall for a while also. After we sit down for dinner, she tells me she may not be able to go to the movie after all, because she's busy studying for finals and stuff. I understand and agree to just dinner and walking around the mall. While we're in the middle of eating, she asks how I handle allowances and such. I felt uncomfortable discussing this with people around us in the restaurant, so I deflect her question. After we're done eating and we start walking around the mall, I ask her if dates will be platonic or what? Keep in mind, she assured me our arrangement would be mutually beneficial, but as of yet, there have been no discussions of what her idea of that is. She tells me she's not sure how platonic or physical they'll be and that it would have to be discussed at some future point. Fair enough, but my Spider-Sense is already tingling that this girl expects to be paid for platonic "hanging out".

So we go into a store and I want to find a couple of new shirts for myself. She helps me pick out a couple, then she's walking around the store getting a few things for herself. I think that she's going to be buying the stuff for herself, but when we go to checkout, she puts the stuff right in with my shirts I picked out. Not wanting to make a scene in front of the cashier and not wanting to discuss our lack of agreed upon arrangement in such a public place, I bit the bullet and paid for about 250 dollars of clothing for her. The rest of the time walking through the mall, I'm fuming. When we part ways in the parking lot, I don't get so much as a hug or a nice thank you for the clothes I bought for her. A reminder to myself and to my brothers out there to make sure that you and POT are on the same page with *everything* before you get hooked into buying her stuff or giving her sugar.

SA has been a complete bust for me so far this time out. My CL ads continue to generate a nibble or two, but nothing definite and / or interesting as of yet.

[QUOTE=FotoGuy1970;2067725]Well, I found out which direction the College POT relationship was going, and it sure wasn't the direction I wanted.

I bit the bullet and paid for about 250 dollars of clothing for her. The rest of the time walking through the mall, I'm fuming. When we part ways in the parking lot, I don't get so much as a hug or a nice thank you for the clothes I bought for her. A reminder to myself and to my brothers out there to make sure that you and POT are on the same page with *everything* before you get hooked into buying her stuff or giving her sugar.

SA has been a complete bust for me so far this time out. My CL ads continue to generate a nibble or two, but nothing definite and / or interesting as of yet.[/QUOTE]Sorry for your loss brother but you did that to yourself. Cardinal rule is " NO $$ until the panties hit the floor " An exception is the M&G at which you treat the Pot to a nice dinner and drinks. PERIOD. Do not go shopping where you will be put in that awkward situation. And what's with going to a movie? I know we are all different, but what most of us want is to hit the FC as soon as possible, not sit in a movie, unless she is going to blow you in the back row. .

Remember, you are in charge because she wants your money. She doesn't care about sex with an old dude and she is not your friend. She wants your money. So make it easy to earn your money. Never say " if our dates will be platonic or what? There is NEVER an acceptable scenario where sex is an option. It is a sure thing or move on .

Instead say " I find you so sexy and you are my kind of girl. I would like to spend some private time together soon ".

She tells me she's not sure how platonic or physical they'll be and that it would have to be discussed at some future point. At this juncture you might say that " you will discuss her allowance at the same time you discuss physical activities. ".

My Spider-Sense is already tingling that this girl expects to be paid for platonic "hanging out". Of COURSE she does! She has already read you as an easy mark. You are probably a nice guy but be a little more demanding. You might say. I would like to begin an arrangement with you so that we can both get what we want. Let's discuss it right now.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2067758]Sorry for your loss brother but you did that to yourself. Cardinal rule is " NO $$ until the panties hit the floor " An exception is the M&G at which you treat the Pot to a nice dinner and drinks. PERIOD. Do not go shopping where you will be put in that awkward situation. And what's with going to a movie? I know we are all different, but what most of us want is to hit the FC as soon as possible, not sit in a movie, unless she is going to blow you in the back row. .

Remember, you are in charge because she wants your money. She doesn't care about sex with an old dude and she is not your friend. She wants your money. So make it easy to earn your money. Never say " if our dates will be platonic or what? There is NEVER an acceptable scenario where sex is an option. It is a sure thing or move on .

Instead say " I find you so sexy and you are my kind of girl. I would like to spend some private time together soon ".

She tells me she's not sure how platonic or physical they'll be and that it would have to be discussed at some future point. At this juncture you might say that " you will discuss her allowance at the same time you discuss physical activities. ".

My Spider-Sense is already tingling that this girl expects to be paid for platonic "hanging out". Of COURSE she does! She has already read you as an easy mark. You are probably a nice guy but be a little more demanding. You might say. I would like to begin an arrangement with you so that we can both get what we want. Let's discuss it right now.[/QUOTE]I don't mind doing dating activities (I.e., dinner and a movie) with a SB because, unlike a lot of my brothers, I'm single outside of the sugar bowl. So it's nice to have an attractive young lady to go and do things with other than hitting the FC. But I won't give sugar for just platonic dates, as I usually make clear. But since this girl assured me before our M&G that our arrangement would be mutually beneficial, it seemed like she was on board with being physical also. It wasn't until midway through this last date that she gave any indication that she wasn't sure what those mutual benefits would be.

[QUOTE=FotoGuy1970;2067776]I don't mind doing dating activities (I.e., dinner and a movie) with a SB because, unlike a lot of my brothers, I'm single outside of the sugar bowl. So it's nice to have an attractive young lady to go and do things with other than hitting the FC. But I won't give sugar for just platonic dates, as I usually make clear. But since this girl assured me before our M&G that our arrangement would be mutually beneficial, it seemed like she was on board with being physical also. It wasn't until midway through this last date that she gave any indication that she wasn't sure what those mutual benefits would be.[/QUOTE]I'm technically single, and really single when my girlfriend travels for weeks at a time. But yes, I'm like you in that I like to make a date of it. I probably wouldn't go to a movie with an SB unless there were a film I really wanted to see that I was planning to see by myself anyway. In other words once an SB is involved there's a chance she'll get to the theatre and go "oooh can we see that instead" and it's some chick flick with Julia Roberts in it or something. For that reason I just wouldn't do movies at all (See foot note at bottom). Also with most movies being around 2 hours in length, some of these girls may feel like they are doing you a favor by sitting in a dark theatre watching the movie (I.e. They gave you 2 hours of their company and should be thusly compensated).

I do highly recommend the dinner M&G, since of course you're enjoying half the cost for yourself and thus your potential loss is minimized, and it's how the typical first date starts out in a normal civvy dating online meeting anyway (in my experience I should say). You could save a few bucks by making it a lunch meeting, but I think you've got a better chance of going straight from dinner to the FC if it's dinner, and in the evening rather than during the day. The next question is simply where the FC is from there. I'm always traveling when I meet an SB, so I already have a hotel room that I'm set up in. When possible, it's nice to get a hotel that has a decent restaurant in or near it, because then the FC is just an elevator ride away. Nice hotels cost a little more, but if your stay is one night and a few more bucks per night puts you in such an easy position to slip away from the dinner table or bar straight to the room, it greatly increases your chance of scoring on the M&G so money well spent. Every time I've done this I've gotten laid and not one of them talked money before the act, I just gifted them after the fact.


foot note* I did want to qualify my "no movies" advice a bit and say that for the single guys, having a nice TV / home theatre system / digital cable or sat can be a big bonus in any sort of dating. I don't bring SBs back to my house these days because my GF, but I always found a nice TV set up goes a long way on the dates I did bring back. First because you can say "do you like porn?" and throw in a porn disc, and before you know it she'll have her hand in your zipper. All of this assumes of course that you know the girl well enough to let her know where you live, a risk that decreases dramatically when you're single. I never had a problem bringing civvy girls I just met at a bar home, but I would be a little more cautious about doing that on the first date with SBs, maybe that's just me. Also if its someone you want to see more, the TV inspires her to come visit more often because she most likely has a crappy TV with limited channels wherever she lives, even if she streams Netflix to her tablet or whatever... once she gets the remote and starts channel flipping she'll get absorbed and stick around a while.

[QUOTE=FotoGuy1970;2067725]Well, I found out which direction the College POT relationship was going, and it sure wasn't the direction I wanted. We had a nice M&G that went well, so this week we agree to meet up for dinner and a movie at local mall, and since we'd have some time between the two, I'd figure we'd walk around the mall for a while also. After we sit down for dinner, she tells me she may not be able to go to the movie after all, because she's busy studying for finals and stuff. I understand and agree to just dinner and walking around the mall. While we're in the middle of eating, she asks how I handle allowances and such. I felt uncomfortable discussing this with people around us in the restaurant, so I deflect her question. After we're done eating and we start walking around the mall, I ask her if dates will be platonic or what? Keep in mind, she assured me our arrangement would be mutually beneficial, but as of yet, there have been no discussions of what her idea of that is. She tells me she's not sure how platonic or physical they'll be and that it would have to be discussed at some future point. Fair enough, but my Spider-Sense is already tingling that this girl expects to be paid for platonic "hanging out".

So we go into a store and I want to find a couple of new shirts for myself. She helps me pick out a couple, then she's walking around the store getting a few things for herself. I think that she's going to be buying the stuff for herself, but when we go to checkout, she puts the stuff right in with my shirts I picked out. Not wanting to make a scene in front of the cashier and not wanting to discuss our lack of agreed upon arrangement in such a public place, I bit the bullet and paid for about 250 dollars of clothing for her. The rest of the time walking through the mall, I'm fuming. When we part ways in the parking lot, I don't get so much as a hug or a nice thank you for the clothes I bought for her. A reminder to myself and to my brothers out there to make sure that you and POT are on the same page with *everything* before you get hooked into buying her stuff or giving her sugar.

SA has been a complete bust for me so far this time out. My CL ads continue to generate a nibble or two, but nothing definite and / or interesting as of yet.[/QUOTE]If you haven't discussed anything sexual at all prior to the meet and greet then there is no reason to have one.

18 to19 - hot looking, hard to get, usually not great in bed, but fun to play with.

20 to 22 - got, getting or wanting to get their skills up. Much easier to get going with asap.

23 to 27 - obviously more experienced but the financial needs are starting to get bigger.

Over 27 - don't go there too often. Much harder to find the true spinners in there. And the ones that still are put a greater dollar value on their looks.

Will not have an allowanced (is that a word?) SB if she has a kid. Too many expenses.

Walruscl:

I think "Max" is right on with a few tips on Threesomes.

1. Let the SB be "in charge" of the 3rd player, if the chemistry isn't there then nobody is having fun.

2. Strip Club as a "trolling" spot. If it is a good, fully nude preferable club, going (or suggesting to go) with your SB can be a way to confirm "what kind of girl would you be interested in? Which gives you the innocent opportunity to take the SB to a club, buy some lap dances for HER (the SB) from strippers she is attracted to, and see what happens. Many strippers are bi, and with your SB making the shots and you taking a more passive role you will find out quickly what your SB has as preferences. Plus you will have a great evening after you leave the club!

If your SB is in charge of the 3rd player, if things don't work out it's not your idea. If you have limited personal availability for the SB this all may be too complicated from the start. Good luck!

Stay Safe!!

PR.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;2055327]I have had 20+ threesomes. I'm actually not that into them because there is only one of me and they rarely turn out as good as planned. Very few sexual experiences are as good if they require too much planning and threesomes usually require a lot of planning. It works best when it is the girls idea. The best times I've had is taking a girl to s stripclub and she really hit it off with a dancer who decided to come home with us.

In summary, it needs to be the girls call, but you can create the right environment (going to a strip club togetheer). Always best if it is more spontaneous and involves a woman I'm very interested in.

Good luck![/QUOTE]

My sweet spot seems to be about 22-23, but there are always exceptions. Met an 18 year old white-blonde-spinner off of CL (one of the few times it has not been a total waste). She was on the fast track to UTR if not already there. Texted back and forth for a couple of weeks before she asked me to come pick her up at her apartment complex. I got there and had to ask for her I'd, just to be sure. Took her back to my place and she proceeded to blow me away. I broke out a toy, she showed me some light bondage pics of herself she had had taken (I'm sure that guy had a good afternoon as well) and we played very nicely together. She talked about wanting to be a porn star, and two minutes later about how she wanted a SD who really cared about her. I tried to plant the thought that I was that guy for her, but she is too scattered or too busy working other guys off of CL to bite. I have been trying to setup a follow-up for over a month with no luck, she always responds to texts quickly and wants to get together, but is always "at my Nana's house" (seriously) or getting high, or whatever. Anyway, it was a great one-off.

Some very interesting reading here gentlemen. I feel the need to add some of my rules to all the good advice that has been offered. I always let a POT know that I do not pay for anyone to sit and have conversation with me. If I want to just do that, I can stay home with my wife. As Fred stated, no $$ until the panties hit the floor. I always meet them in public for a cocktail or lunch before taking them to the fc. I usually make that a separate date as I do not like to commit to the fc with them until I talk with them first. More than once they turn out to be mental patients I would rather not get involved with. The maximum I will start out with is $150. If they are looking for more, I tell them they can show me why they deserve more, but we are starting out at that. Only twice have I gone to $200, and that was because both ended up just being amazing. I also have some strict communication rules. If they are challenged with that, I move on. I will not spend any time trying to chase them down because they care little about my time. Also, they need to be able to tell time and be on time. Most of us have "windows of opportunity" to see them. Constant tardiness is an insult. Again, I move on to the next one.

Remember, the pool is full of new SB talent. None of them are so good that we need to accept any of their bullshit. I hope this is of value here.

[QUOTE=Dsprdo;2068246]My sweet spot seems to be about 22-23, but there are always exceptions. Met an 18 year old white-blonde-spinner off of CL (one of the few times it has not been a total waste). She was on the fast track to UTR if not already there. Texted back and forth for a couple of weeks before she asked me to come pick her up at her apartment complex. I got there and had to ask for her I'd, just to be sure. Took her back to my place and she proceeded to blow me away. I broke out a toy, she showed me some light bondage pics of herself she had had taken (I'm sure that guy had a good afternoon as well) and we played very nicely together. She talked about wanting to be a porn star, and two minutes later about how she wanted a SD who really cared about her. I tried to plant the thought that I was that guy for her, but she is too scattered or too busy working other guys off of CL to bite. I have been trying to setup a follow-up for over a month with no luck, she always responds to texts quickly and wants to get together, but is always "at my Nana's house" (seriously) or getting high, or whatever. Anyway, it was a great one-off.[/QUOTE]I know, not long ago I had a one off (technically two) that was freakin amazing. I put her in my top ten of all time. She told me I was her last client. She was a pro and already retired (only 22) due to being married and wanting to start a family. She was on the sd site for maybe one day (due to financial issues). The bigger point is, if you truly can catch them on the first day, be ready to follow up immediately, because by the second or third day they realize this is not what they want to do. YMMV but its so worth it. No future in it. But a great memory all the same. I have seen 9 quality level girls do this. Can't count how many I let slip through my fingers because they were an hour drive I just could"t make that day. Sometimes it's about feeling desperate for money, sometimes curiosity or sometimes it's just "fuck the world (or guys in general), I am going to do what I want to do". And then they never do it again. Or they step it up and you cant afford them anymore. A 9 quality girl that i passed on that I met through a friend, that started by doing $ BBFS sessions, is now up to a K a day only a year later. Lately the game has me worn out. I am seriously considering just looking for a hot older girl if I can find the right one (no kids please) to be my next sb, a true np that just needs a little something extra now and then.

Did Fred hit the nail on the head or what?

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2067758]Remember, you are in charge because she wants your money. She doesn't care about sex with an old dude and she is not your friend. She wants your money. So make it easy to earn your money. Never say "if our dates will be platonic or what? There is NEVER an acceptable scenario where sex is an option. It is a sure thing or move on.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Golfcart;2068320]Did Fred hit the nail on the head or what?[/QUOTE]Yep. You lay the ground rules, not her. Most women are attracted to authority (overwhelmingly true of SBs), and the more you can exert (while of course remaining tactful and charming) the more it will work to your advantage.

It's a delicate balance; you don't ask her what she wants to do, and you don't tell her what she has to do... You suggest what the two of you WILL do in a way that sounds like you've got it all worked out and she will respect you for it, be more attracted to you for it, and most of the time it will work out in your favor. Exceptions will occur but you take the losses with the wins. Women are women and the game is the game. Sharpen your skills in the sugarbowl and it will help you in general interactions with women and dating (and vice versa). It doesn't matter if there is money in an envelope on the table or not -- women just are what they are and it's about understanding what they think and respect.

I am back in bowl and now feel that I know some old tricks. Well...here is one SB ...

SB: I'm driving through Saturday, let's meet for lunch.

Me: ok.

SB: Are you interested in more than one girl? I have my friend I'm traveling with.

Me: Well, tell me what you like to do. Also allowance info. I prefer to meet you only but if you send me info we will discuss.

- now I know what's coming next, after couple of back and forth text.

Me: I will give allowance only after our date is over.

SB: Well I am ok with allowance on nightstand, I should be able to see it.

Me: I can't keep it there. I can show the allowance and then will keep it in safe place! It will be given to you after the date. That's how it will work.

-- I said I had some bad experience with such situation.

No reply...no talk afterwards.

I guess someone else is getting into this trap..be careful...!

What's up with all SBs here...they are asking 0.5+ hmmm..getting tough to fish.

[QUOTE=KingGreg;2068825]I am back in bowl and now feel that I know some old tricks. Well...here is one SB ...

SB: I'm driving through Saturday, let's meet for lunch.

Me: ok.

SB: Are you interested in more than one girl? I have my friend I'm traveling with.
[/QUOTE]I don't even consider that type an SB, it's just an escort posing as an SB.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2068892]I don't even consider that type an SB, it's just an escort posing as an SB.[/QUOTE]Yes, this was supposed to be a SB meeting as she said marketing director and come to Richmond every week.

I feel like I have just experienced a convergence of several discussions over the past few days.

First, like many I'm based in RIC. I have been in the bowl for over four years and have been fortunate to meet a couple exceptional ladies. Fred and I have lamented the loss of a couple superior SBs. One 10 that we both saw at different times, Fred's ATF from a nearby town and my MILF third grade teacher who saw me and one other then quit. As one who likes an emotional connection with the individuals we seek to bang, I found myself somewhat depressed after losing my MILF third grade teacher after only two amazing sessions.

Girls from CL.

There has been some discussion about the girls on CL. Most pros and fakes. I have had some luck on CL both from ads and responses. Recently the warden was out of town and I was looking for some strange. I answered an ad on CL from my area. She immediately answered saying she was looking for two or more guys. I responded that I was a generous white male and could help her. She responded positively. I suggested we meet at a local store halfway between us. She agreed. We met at the store and she jumped in my car. She is a beautiful 19 YO with an amazing smile and open disposition. I took her to my office. After ten minutes of chatting I suggested we had too many clothes on. She giggled and removed her top. I told her to lay on the desk and relax. I grabbed some lotion from my desk and gave her a back massage. After about ten minutes I reached around and unbuttoned her shorts and slid them down to her ankles and began working on her backside. She started moaning and moving her ass in my with each thrust of my hands. Long story short, I banged her on my assistant's desk to the satisfaction of both of us. There was absolutely no talk of sugar to this point.

When I dropped her off at her car I asked to see her wallet. She gave it to me without question. I opened it and there was only one dollar. I put in $ and gave it back to her saying I wanted her to be my SB. She just laughed and said fucking in the office got her off.

The next week I had a free afternoon and sent her a text asking what she was doing. She said she was about to take a shower. I asked if I could join her. She said to come on over and gave me her address. I went to a VERY upscale house near me. It was her mom's house that she shared with her brother. He mom mostly stayed with her BF. I too was expecting Chris Hanson except for the previous encounter. She met me at the door in a terrycloth robe and a smile from ear to ear. We went to her room and started where we left off. After the first session I suggested we take a shower together. We washed each other and concluded with an oral session the likes of which I have not experienced in years. We went back to her bed and finished with the best BJ I have ever had.

As we were laying in bed reflecting on the past two hours, she admitted that she was exploring her sexuality and wanted to experience new things. Sex in an office was checked off her list and she liked the idea of a SD. She told me of several other fantasies which I hope to fulfill this spring and summer.

It is so nice to be back in the game! Yes, you can find a diamond on occasion on CL...

Happy Hunting!

[QUOTE=Vasail;2069016]I took her to my office. After ten minutes of chatting I suggested we had too many clothes on. She giggled and removed her top. I told her to lay on the desk and relax. [/QUOTE]I want to open up a new thread of discussion on Office Romps. Obviously this isn't an option for everyone and it's something you have to be very careful about.

But if you own your business and have a fairly low-key office / office building with few or no other people around, an office space can make a good alternate FC location. You save on hotel fees and it's not as cheap feeling as the backseat of a car. And as Vasail mentioned in his report, quite a few girls get off doing it in an office and it's usually on their sex bucket list.

There's obvious risks such as the girl knowing your identity and business. But outside of the psychos, most girls do not want to stir up trouble at an office building. And again, if you own your business, even if she went temporarily crazy, your the boss and there is minimal collateral damage. Her making weird calls to the office or even showing up unannounced isn't going to do much unless she has keys to the building.

It's still a calculated risk and if you're trying to stay in total stealth mode, then you should avoid it. But I recently got some new office space myself and I've met a couple of SBs there. Before they came to the office, I had already met them previously and they were vetted. It worked out great. Having a SB come to me without having to really do anything was fantastic for several reasons. Not only was it hugely convenient but when one of my SBs flaked on me at the last minute, I didn't waste money on a hotel, gas, travel, or time. I just swiveled my chair and went back to work. And in terms of discretion, when the SBs do come I tell them to dress conservatively and carry a notebook or folder. If anybody asks I just say they are a client or salesperson. I'm also not chatty with the other businesses in the building, so they don't know exactly what's going on and can't draw any firm conclusions.

Even if your current job or office isn't practical for this, you could always just rent some office space somewhere and make it your makeshift FC location. I know a while back we had a discussion about renting apartments for permanent FC locations. But I think we came to the conclusion that it would be more trouble than it's worth, and it would set off huge red flags if the SO somehow found out about it on a credit report or something. Plus the temptation of letting a SB live there could also cause a lot of problems. The advantage with an office location is that you don't have to worry about any of those "live-in" issues and if the SO found out you had an office location it wouldn't set off any alarms of SB activity. In fact, you probably could tell your SO about the office and it likely wouldn't cause any issues. An office space is also easier to furnish than an apartment. Just make sure your office is big enough for a desk and decent sized couch, and you're good to go.

Again, I want to reiterate it's risky. But it's the same kind of risk if you were going to have a secret SB apartment anyway. And for me, while I'm raising the risk of SB knowing my identity, I'm actually lowering my risk of being exposed by my SO on a routine basis. Every time I go to a hotel, I'm dealing with small windows of time and I'm having to lie about my whereabouts. If something comes up and my FC location is too far from my supposed location, then yellow / red flags are raised. But with the office, I'm at my supposed location and my windows of time are larger and more flexible. You just have to make sure to not plan anything when the SO can make an unannounced visit while you're in the middle of your Office Romp.

If you do try this, you need to choose your office wisely. Your office should preferably be away from the areas of high foot traffic. You should have the ability to screen your visitors or at least block access, so someone can't just walk in on you without your permission. If you have windows, make sure they have blinds. Do a sound check and get an idea of how sound travels. You don't want to be in a building where even casual conversations can be heard through walls to other businesses. Avoid a building that has a front desk secretary for all the businesses. These secretaries will gossip or worse talk to the building owner if they don't approve of your behavior. So get a place where you can come and go without interacting with anyone.

I'd be glad to hear any other tips / cautionary tales from those who have successfully used their Office as a FC.

Currently seeing my SB in a bonus (or boner) room in a friends office building. She is a little kinky anyway and likes the thrill of dangerous liaisons in odd places and is more of a hit and run sort of girl. The price is right at $ . Cost =$75 to 100 max. No refreshments or Notels. Just a hard dick and multiple positions and we are good to go. There is no connection to me at all and traffic is low there.

I have had 2 ex SBs come to the office several years ago. We have done the desk top, sofa, and a selection of comfortable chairs. Warbling orgasms are a problem so I don't recommend bring your more vocal virtuoso.

Welcome Fyrguy33 . Thanks for the input. Let us know about some of your experiences. We are a show and tell bunch of guys here.

[QUOTE=FyrGuy33;2068268]Some very interesting reading here gentlemen. I feel the need to add some of my rules to all the good advice that has been offered. I always let a POT know that I do not pay for anyone to sit and have conversation with me. If I want to just do that, I can stay home with my wife. As Fred stated, no $$ until the panties hit the floor. I always meet them in public for a cocktail or lunch before taking them to the fc. I usually make that a separate date as I do not like to commit to the fc with them until I talk with them first. More than once they turn out to be mental patients I would rather not get involved with. The maximum I will start out with is $150. If they are looking for more, I tell them they can show me why they deserve more, but we are starting out at that. Only twice have I gone to $200, and that was because both ended up just being amazing. I also have some strict communication rules. If they are challenged with that, I move on. I will not spend any time trying to chase them down because they care little about my time. Also, they need to be able to tell time and be on time. Most of us have "windows of opportunity" to see them. Constant tardiness is an insult. Again, I move on to the next one.

Remember, the pool is full of new SB talent. None of them are so good that we need to accept any of their bullshit. I hope this is of value here.[/QUOTE]All true, scheduling is definitely an issue, even being single, because I am married to my job.

[blue][deleted by admin][/blue]
[b][u]editor's note[/u]:[/b] [blue]this report was edited to [u]remove references to **** persons[/u].

i am aware that the vast majority of references to **** girls are legitimate attempts to warn other fellow members about how easy it is to accidentally pickup an **** girls, the potential dangers of being caught with **** girls, etc. however, past discussions in the forum has repeatedly demonstrated that the subject simply cannot be discussed intelligently, in any form or for any reason, without being misinterpreted, and without starting flame wars.

please do not post references to **** persons in the forum. [i]thanks![/i][/blue]

[BLUE]This time I'm going to be very direct. If you mention a number that is <18 on this forum you will be placed on moderation. It doesn't matter if you are warning guys away.

[b]There is NO DISCUSSION of that topic allowed on the USASG for any reason, at any time.[/b]

Is any part of this unclear? Mention a smaller number, be moderated forever.

A2[/BLUE]

I think you mean <18 - but we get your drift! Completely agree!

[blue]You are correct, thank you very much for catching that.

A2[/blue]

[QUOTE=Admin2;2070220][BLUE]This time I'm going to be very direct. If you mention a number that is <18 on this forum you will be placed on moderation. It doesn't matter if you are warning guys away.

[b]There is NO DISCUSSION of that topic allowed on the USASG for any reason, at any time.[/b]

Is any part of this unclear? Mention a smaller number, be moderated forever.

A2[/BLUE][/QUOTE]

I say possible as I have not met with her yet. I understand she is in a tough spot and needs some help. I can not get to her location till later in the month. I have the OK to share her number with trusted / senior members. Fair Warning. I have not met and not 100% sure she is legit. Pics (could be fake) are just my type. Petite spinner. Says she has been a SB before but her SD left for Europe... Message if you want the digits. She has a profile on WYP, Macon, GA. Blueeyedbaby1989. She is looking for now. Not sure why I am trying to help her.. Maybe just the little head is doing the thinking..

Well, Richmond and surrounding has been tough. SBs are demanding high allowance. Are there anyone recently found SBs, want to get opinion. Also, I met someone thought is good. But after getting phone number, google search found that she has been an escort. Damn...

Another VCU SB, high demand...initially agreed for 0.25 and then at the meet...she said it was just for dinner...LOL.

I completely agree. I usually hunt in the northern VA or Baltimore market but have been doing some local Richmond hunting off and on due to a job assignment that brings me here often. I have run into some real GPS horror stories and continue to lose good Potentials due to high demand in this market area. I think we all run into this no matter where we live, but my opinion is that this forum may be part of the problem. Don't get me wrong, I love this site and have learned techniques that I would have spent years and years perfecting and probably never would have figured them out on my own. But its my opinion that the location of this thread being RVA has brought much more attention to the sport here than elsewhere, and that we have more SDs per capita, which is causing high levels of inflation locally.

I could be wrong, but I have had several outright turn-downs even at the 300 level, which is about double what I'm truly comfortable with paying. I'm encountering mid-quality SBs that just laugh at offers in the $$ or less range, and have received several quotes asking for 500 and above. The AA market here is a little more reasonable, but trying to get an 8 or above profile of any race to agree to less than 300 is getting tough. I can't help but thinking that I'm simply getting out-bid.

I just seem to have lost a mid-quality AA in her early 20's after a single successful visit to the FC. I thought I was being generous at the $$ level plus expenses, and she was very agreeable to making it a long term arrangement in the next few days of txting. But I noticed that she was still active on SA and has all of the sudden gone to complete radio silence. I'm pretty sure on this one that she has found a better deal elsewhere.

What is the average SD to do? Too late to go back to BP...I'm hooked on the chase of the SD world.

Alias.

[QUOTE=KingGreg;2070877]Well, Richmond and surrounding has been tough. SBs are demanding high allowance. Are there anyone recently found SBs, want to get opinion. Also, I met someone thought is good. But after getting phone number, google search found that she has been an escort. Damn...

Another VCU SB, high demand...initially agreed for 0.25 and then at the meet...she said it was just for dinner...LOL.[/QUOTE]

The talent is decidedly lacking. I have never seen such a paucity of reasonable candidates and have not even bid on anyone lately. Right now I have a regular who is very reasonable and am sticking with her for the moment. You never know when they will flake away.

SDFM is also light. It used to be 5 or 6 panels of names and is now 3 ,many of whom are in Fredericksburg.

There is a cure for GPS. Follow Hollywood's lead and stick to your guns. Offer what you can afford and move on. When the big spenders are stripped of their assets then the price will come down. My take on it is the escort market is becoming more highly watched by LE so some of the Mongers are spilling over into PTP SB market offering escort rates. Mid level escorts get $300/ hour. Lower end $100 to 200 / hr and offer half and QTR hours. No escort in Rich that I know of is commanding $500 + / hour.

The other possibility is the time of year. College girls are making summer plans and maybe are not wanting to commit to a Daddy.

Finally, is the economy improving? I don't see it but maybe the girls are not as desperate lately.