No doubt you can't just throw lots of money at anything expecting for it
[QUOTE=TonyTisdale;3371485]Well it's one college prof's opinion, and obviously coming from a leftist slant. The truth is usually discovered by weighing a number of sources together. I like the way he summed things up.
"Mr Temin says that education is the solution to offer everyone in society better opportunities and calls for investments in public schools and public universities.
He says: "Knowing how to think, how to get on with people, how to cooperate. All the social skills and social capital. Are going to be critically important for kids in this environment."
I'd respond by saying that it's not just about throwing money at the problem. Cultures need to change. You can have all the fancy schools you like but if kids aren't interested in learning little will change. Then we are back to the Asians, "culture. " They in this present environment rarely mouth off to teachers, do their work, work hard, save money, don't end up on dope or in jail, and prepare for rewarding careers. As a result they have the highest educational attainment and average income in the US. And much of this starts at home with parents. Asians also by the way, historically, have been subjected to some awful periods of racial discrimination.
He also is taking real liberties with terminology calling the US "developing" and lumping us in the same basket with places like Mexico and the Philippines. Most experts would consider the US highly developed. Here a list of "developed and developing."
[URL]http://www.investopedia.com/updates/top-developing-countries/[/URL]
Here is a report on education and what spending has and hasn't accomplished.
[URL]https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa746.pdf[/URL][/QUOTE]
...to be great, i. e. , education, health care, etc. We spend a lot more money on health care more than any industrialized nation, yet, Americans have the poorest health. Per capita, America spends about $9500 on health care; whereas other nations are spending half that. So it is true, you can't just throw money at it, expecting greatness. Our educational system is largely still modeled after the industrial period (not post industrial-advanced technology), meaning, we have a pretty antiquated system that can better prepare one to work in a factory rather than a more advanced society. Very sad indeed and I believe our political leaders and the people have allowed such as this. We need better leaders to bring about changes in our society that will improve our quality of life and a society that recognizes when changes are needed.
One thing I will leave with you to consider though, empires do fall. The Medes, Persians, Greeks, and the Romans were great empires and they fell. The question is, what was happening in those societies before their fall that should have informed them that they were headed for destruction. What were the signs; the symptoms that should have alerted them to their impending demise? Based on the little I've read about the Roman empire, it appears they had gotten too large before their fall. I think I also read that internal strife lead to their destruction. When Alexander the great died, my understanding is that his generals fought over supremacy. That nation was divided into 4. Anyway, the point is, if these nations can fall, we (America) are not immune. But the question is, what is occurring in our society today that should inform us that we, likewise, are headed in the wrong direction? I realize this topic came up because I was curious about the fact that so many women are going into the sex industry and that just piqued my curiosity as to why this is and of course I could only attribute this to a society that is offering very little opportunities. Asians can be used as a kind of model or a group that can be studied to determine why they're more successful than others, but on a large scale bases, I don't think many of us will achieve that status- but we should study them to determine what they are doing and what we're not. I know there was a time that their kids attended school 6 days a week as opposed to our 5 days but I'm sure they are doing a lot of other great things. I know as far as math and sciences, America ranks at the bottom compared to other nations and that is sad. Many engineering jobs cannot be filled in this country because we don't have people who excel in these areas (about 1. 5 millions jobs goes unfilled). Even our military is faltering. My understanding from experts is that we are not as battle ready as we should be. Some of our ships can't leave port because we don't have available parts to fix them. Again, I don't think all is as well as is being portrayed. Anyway, still quite interesting.
I think there's a bit of confusion
[QUOTE=TonyTisdale;3371948]We aren't "at the bottom" in math and sciences. Yes some Western Euro countries and a few Asian show better results in education, but we are still way ahead of most of the world. Many "developing" or "underdeveloped" countries do not provide education beyond the 8th grade, and even then families are responsible for buying books and uniforms. Many cannot. Second, according to the HDI put out by a group of international economists under the direction of the UN, we rate very high in human development across several measures. Yes we are a highly developed nation though there are a handful that are ahead of us in these measurements.
[URL]http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/human_development.htm[/URL]
Frankly, calling us "third world" or "underdeveloped" or even "developing" is ridiculous. And regarding roads and bridges, people talking about that need to take a drive through Mexico, the Philippines, and the list can go on. Yes there is room for improvement but the sky isn't falling because 20 or so girls post on BP Jacksonville every day. How about check out Pattaya, Thailand where 1000's upon 1000's of young women go to work in the business daily.
As to the end of empires, yea they all eventually end. So what are we then, a "third world empire?" Seems rather oxymoronic to me. LOL.[/QUOTE]
Most of the research or experts aren't saying and neither am I saying we're a 3rd world country but what they are saying is that the course we're on can very well end up that way. Consider what they are saying a warning sign. What can we do to avert the situation, is the million dollar question. With the widening gap in wealth between the 99% and 1%, it's apparent that we have a dire situation on our hands. I mean, come on, minimum wage? Do you think people can really live, somewhat comfortably, on minimum wage? Absolutely not.
Look at this report on the PISA assessment where we rank near the bottom:
[URL]http://hechingerreport.org/u-s-now-ranks-near-bottom-among-35-industrialized-nations-math/[/URL]
Of course, we've been fluctuating in our scores in sciences and reading but it appears that is because many countries have slipped which doesn't say much about our current status. Many of our students can hardly write when they leave high school. Something that is also interesting, to have the world's largest economy, here is the percentage of people that have certain degrees in this country:
1. Bachelors degrees: 30 something percent.
2. Masters degrees: now almost 8 or 9 percent.
3. Less than 3 percent PhDs.
Being a country that is considered rich, this is pretty pathetic. But then again, the high cost of college has become a reality of today. Even though the government tells colleges they cannot raise tuition from time to time(which in itself is too high), however, they can make up for those deficits in tuition they cannot collect from us in other fees- which makes college even the more un-affordable for many. How can a country get the best jobs if educational attainment is dismal? What corporations would want to place their businesses in any country who do not have an educated citizenry?
Among the 34 OECD countries, the United States performed below average in mathematics in 2012 and is ranked 27th (this is the best estimate, although the rank could be between 23 and 29 due to sampling and measurement error). Performance in reading and science are both close to the OECD average. The United States ranks 17 in reading, (range of ranks: 14 to 20). And 20 in science (range of ranks: 17 to 25). There has been no significant change in these performances over time.
[URL]https://www.oecd.org/unitedstates/PISA-2012-results-US.pdf[/URL]
These are some pretty accurate sources and the numbers show we need to up our game. Just to be clear again though, researchers are not saying we are a third world country nor do we have underdeveloped status but if we continue this course, as I mentioned, empires do fall. When your economy (GDP) is not making adequate growth and we're still at an almost 20 trillion dollar deficit, this is certainly going in the wrong direction. I can have 5 million in the bank but if I owe 100 million, no good. Got to turn it around before it's too late. I liken this to a person whose spending is out of control; it won't be long before his house is ruined- financially and otherwise. Also, to be sure, I am not just looking at Jax BP hoes entering into this line of work, I'm looking at it from a domestic perspective.
I thought someone would complain BUT
[QUOTE=LuvSoftHands;3372472]Sheesh, I'm a deep thinker too, but isn't anyone going to chime in re: appropriateness of this subject matter to the forum on which it appears? Drew? Beuhler?. Beuhler?. Anyone?[/QUOTE]This is the reason why we began talking about said subject in "woodshed" so as not to tie up the other threads that are mainly used to pursue coochie. This subject, believe it or not, is still talking about the sex industry but with a twist. When people start talking about these kind of offhanded subjects on BP threads and such, people complain but when we come on over to the woodshed thread, people still complain. Can't have it both ways. In case you're wondering, my question was (basically): do people think that the increased number of women entering into the sex industry, is it a sign of a deteriorating economy that might be leading to third world status. You see, it's still about the sex industry but as I mentioned, with a twist. We promise not to bring this topic to the escort, BP, and massage thread, etc. Which is why we're over here having a civilized discussion. Besides, with the poor ass talent we've been seeing lately in Jax, why not expand a little on what is normally discussed as long as we're not harming or threatening anyone? At least we might learn something about something rather than calling 10 BP girls and can't get one to respond! LOL.
Also, typically when people start talking about offhanded subjects in other threads, Admin usually moves those topics to the woodshed; that said, it appears we're not breaking any rules.
Honestly, it's been known for some time that our educational system is a mess
[QUOTE=TonyTisdale;3372645]Whitenite, I don't see us covering any new ground. I'm getting ready for a big vacation so will soon be giving you the last word. Given your investment in this you were bound to get it anyway. Will say this, no, I do not see us in a "tailspin" toward some 3rd World status to use your original description, and you've provided no source material to back up such a doomsday announcement. In fact we are currently very much a highly developed country and on the upswing economically since the great recession. I've provided sources to back that up.
In fact you've provided no source materials at all except this recent bit about education scores where you show the US at the bottom when compared to a short list of other highly developed countries. Thanks for clarifying that when you asserted "bottom" you weren't talking about the world at large. That or you were just repeating something you heard and benefitted from fact checking in Google. Here is another source along those lines.
[URL]http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/[/URL]
Note that a relatively small number of world nations participate in these measurements. Scroll to the bottom related to the 15 year olds and we are in the middle range of the small sampling. A bit embarrassing, but I suspect that if we stopped testing the Deep South and maybe a few other states we'd see our national scores spike significantly. Sorry if that offends anyone but hey, it's "the woodshed. " It's in many ways a very diverse nation we live him. And there are a lot of very bright people in this country. Look at our history of leading the world in technological inventions, and we still have the world's greatest universities.
But then we are back to the Asian-Americans. Want to succeed in the land of plenty? Want to make more than minimum wage? Do what they do and don't do. I've laid that out twice so won't repeat it again. They aren't in a "tailspin. " Far from it, and those that are, it's usually due to their own poor choices and / or refusal to adapt to a changing economic climate. With that I'll rest my case.[/QUOTE]And I suspect most people should be aware of such. I don't see us being as profitable as you've mentioned given the fact that we are in a deficit that will take a very long time to pay off and it keeps growing. To me, I wouldn't characterize this as being prosperous. I'd rather operate in the black rather than the red any day-any time. There are people who would like to go to school but hey, it's just too darn expensive to do so. I gave you the dismal figures on the number of degrees different ones hold in this country and I tell you, the numbers should be much higher for a highly developed country. To have a school system that is better suited for the industrial age might explain our place in academic achievements. Let me say this to you also as I go back to why this conversation originally started, no woman in her right mind would enter into the sex trade unless she was pretty desperate. Believe me, these girls aren't working in the sex trade because they love sex so much. In fact, if they can get away with just a BJ or body rub to get your money, they would. If some of them can, they'd resort to the ole cash and dash in order to not participate in sexual intercourse. I said that to say this, desperate situations calls for desperate measures and entering into the sex trade definitely informs me that there are some desperate women out there. Whether these girls (or people in general) make good choices or not, to obtain a college degree is being made damn near impossible for the populous.
I, like many, have been on that side of the fence when you don't have a college education and let me tell you, in today's workforce climate, it is a terrible place to be. You know, you have to look at the information provided in its aggregate and form a conclusion about it. Your conclusion perhaps tells you that all is well, despite the obvious; however, based on my observation of many factors, I'd say things aren't quite looking up. You can't borrow your way out of debt my friend. That will soon catch up with you. If you don't accept anything else I said, I hope this last portion will at least inform you that when one has to borrow money (as American leaders do a lot of), we're in big trouble. Also, it doesn't matter if I google something or use some other reliable sources as that is what the information is there for which is why I stay away from sites like wikipedia. Most people who know anything about research would stay away from such sites because such websites can be changed by anyone. Sites that have more reliable information are your. Edu, . Org, . Gov's. Anyway, that's what it is.
No empire stands forever!
