"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

So to continue with the opportunity that I talked about below we have a success. So we talked and she was good with meeting today. We met for a quick lunch and off to the FC for some fun. Now it was not quite as smooth as that. Because we know how the sugar bowl can be and its fickleness. LOL.

First her communication was spotty after reconnecting and I was very skeptical after her strange behavior from the past. But I rolled with it. But I was honestly not sure it was going to happen until it did. I followed my own advice and made the reservation on my Ipad as we were having lunch. So I did not get stuck with a hotel bill. I did discover a few things. First she had a previous affair. Can't really call it an SD since she is not asking for money. Second she found him on the site that she told me she was totally new to the site and what it was about. All lies but what the hell. Everything else looked really good.

Now I must say this young lady is of a high quality. She is very smart straight A's in college, she has a prior technical certification, has a car, and a job, she is very well spoken and a good person to hang out with. She is very sexual and ready to experiment and to try things.

So we get to the room and have some fun. Great sex. Awesome blowjob. Really tight pussy. But she is a little bigger than I like them. Not fat but definitely thick. Beautiful titties. I am giving her a 7/6/9/9. I would have to say she is the best sex for an under 25 yo I have ever had. Remember this young lady is still only 18. Amazing. Awesome kisser. It was a great and fun and relaxing experience. And of course no drama, no craziness and no dollars. Possibly as one brother said on here. A unicorn. But I have to stop short of that. The size was a little troubling to me. Especially for an 18 YO. I kept thinking of my little Italian Princess afterward and how tiny and petite she is, I can just pick her up and throw her wherever I want to. And I do. And my princess is just plain fun. We just have a lot of fun together.

So I am not going to be chasing her. And she is ready to go whenever I am. But it was a really good and inexpensive experience. This hobby was made for women with daddy issues. LOL.

Lets be careful out there.

Revvo.

[QUOTE=Revvo;2047606]So to continue with the opportunity that I talked about below we have a success. So we talked and she was good with meeting today. We met for a quick lunch and off to the FC for some fun. Now it was not quite as smooth as that. Because we know how the sugar bowl can be and its fickleness. LOL.

First her communication was spotty after reconnecting and I was very skeptical after her strange behavior from the past. But I rolled with it. But I was honestly not sure it was going to happen until it did. I followed my own advice and made the reservation on my Ipad as we were having lunch. So I did not get stuck with a hotel bill. I did discover a few things. First she had a previous affair. Can't really call it an SD since she is not asking for money. Second she found him on the site that she told me she was totally new to the site and what it was about. All lies but what the hell. Everything else looked really good.

Now I must say this young lady is of a high quality. She is very smart straight A's in college, she has a prior technical certification, has a car, and a job, she is very well spoken and a good person to hang out with. She is very sexual and ready to experiment and to try things.

So we get to the room and have some fun. Great sex. Awesome blowjob. Really tight pussy. But she is a little bigger than I like them. Not fat but definitely thick. Beautiful titties. I am giving her a 7/6/9/9. I would have to say she is the best sex for an under 25 yo I have ever had. Remember this young lady is still only 18. Amazing. Awesome kisser. It was a great and fun and relaxing experience. And of course no drama, no craziness and no dollars. Possibly as one brother said on here. A unicorn. But I have to stop short of that. The size was a little troubling to me. Especially for an 18 YO. I kept thinking of my little Italian Princess afterward and how tiny and petite she is, I can just pick her up and throw her wherever I want to. And I do. And my princess is just plain fun. We just have a lot of fun together.

So I am not going to be chasing her. And she is ready to go whenever I am. But it was a really good and inexpensive experience. This hobby was made for women with daddy issues. LOL.

Lets be careful out there.

Revvo.[/QUOTE]They call them spinners for a reason. LOL. And I ain't no football player. I can't toss more than about 110 lbs anywhere. But a one off hook-up is always cool.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2047644]They call them spinners for a reason. LOL. And I ain't no football player. I can't toss more than about 110 lbs anywhere. But a one off hook-up is always cool.[/QUOTE]I think spinners are still one of my favorites, sexually. Some might think it has something to do with fun sized girls having tighter pussies, buy I honestly have not found a direct correlation between tightness in their vajay and their overall body size. I guess I just associate larger = more masculine and the smaller the body on a woman the more I associate her with being a woman? And to me the more feminine she is the better -- opposites attract. I don't know, I don't claim to understand the psychology behind my preference.

For me they don't have to be spinners in the classic sense (which I think relates to being short in height). I care more about their overall body frame and proportions, bone density and muscle mass. I love long legs on an otherwise feminine frame. Especially those that know enough to lock their legs around your butt or lower back during vigorous fucking, so that you can actually lift them off the bed via back muscles on the backstroke without throwing a disc out.

On the other hand I have friends who really go for the highly muscular athletic look, or others that go for the really voluptuous (almost chubby) look. I'm glad there is variance in preference, I see that as nature creating less competition for me.

I mentioned a few weeks ago, that as a relatively new SD, I had a 100% success rate (straight to the FC after dinner on first date). I also mentioned that I new I would not be able to maintain that as I gained experience. It happened recently, my winning streak was broken. I wrote about it once before here and my message mysteriously went missing without explanation, and hopefully that was a fluke.

She's early 20's, blonde, seriously smoking body. Basically we had texted each other after a brief exchange online, and set up a date for a week night. Her communication was surprisingly reliable / mature / prompt for her age, as I've noticed a lot of wishy-washy behavior below the age of 25 or so and she was not like this. We set up a date based on her work schedule, she told me which day she didn't have to work and I suggested the night before. Why? Because I think it increases my chances of not having to hear "I need to go, I have to work tomorrow". If they want to cut the date short then fine but don't use work as an excuse. Work is overrated anyway.

So we met for dinner -- she was a little late. Dinner went well (set me back $70 or so) and we decided to go bar hopping and have some drinks. Problem was, she picked the bars and they were all extremely loud (too much so for small talk). About 20 minutes into it, I made the mistake of answering a text on my phone. That inspired her to pull her phone out, where she proceeded to text someone. A few minutes later, she says she "needs to go soon". Well, okay, I can't make someone continue a date they don't want to be on.

So as we walked out to the parking lot she suggests we get together the next day -- she doesn't have to work. I said "huh? Tonight was supposed to be our date. I'm not a mid-afternoon date kind of guy." And I basically proceeded to tell her that I make all my decisions based on what happens on the first date. She jokingly said something to the effect that I wasn't going to have much luck with that strategy, and I just disagreed. I basically said no I have plans for the next day (and I wasn't bluffing) and I wasn't going to see her during the day even though it "worked better for her because her energy level was better". She knew many days in advance when our date was and she should have had her shit together.

So after we part ways, she starts texting me, saying if I wanted to sleep with her, I should have let her know. I said of course I wanted to, and she said sure but there is a price. Well that kind of rubbed me the wrong way because thus far, I have never discussed money with any of these girls. I treat it like its any other date, we fuck, then I give them a gift because I want to the next morning. So she wants to play high priced rolodex call girl apparently. I basically told her it should be obvious that there would be financial help involved, but that when it came to sex I had no doubt she would be enjoying me as much as I would be enjoying her, so she should consider the gift as kind of a bonus and not the end game.

Well needless to say she didn't appreciate that one. She started saying she's never been offered less than an amount that is about what most girls would consider a monthly allowance amount, yet for one night. I told her that I'm still fortunate enough to find girls that fuck because they like to fuck and find something appealing about me, and she can look elsewhere for her demands that are more than a pornstar makes in a professional day of work. I just wasn't buying what she was selling, figuratively or literally.

To be honest, looking back there was a red flag I didn't notice early on. Usually I look for positive reactions to my photos -- comments of varying levels of enthusiasm expressing their attraction. I've found a direct correlation between how attracted they are to me and how eager they are to fuck. This girl said something I had not yet heard: "You're not unattractive by any means"... LOL!! She didn't say this until of course after the date during the wrap up conversation, but then it dawned on me she never really expressed any sort of attraction before that. When I sent her photos she would say "thanks" or "nice pic" but never anything flattering or complementary.

So, I mostly wanted to document this moment for posterity and for my own recollection later. I need to learn to read their vibe better. Unfortunately being only an "occasional" SD (whenever my girlfriend travels, which is not often enough), leaves me to learn some things the hard way. Well there, it is, my first unsuccessful M&G.

Report #1 was about a date that went dud. This one was the opposite. Literally the day after the girl I described in report #1, I had a second POT SB lined up.

She. Rocked. My. World.

Her photos looked amazing, but she shows up and in person looks infinitely better than photos. Mid 20's, gorgeous from head to toe, one of those women that just has a charm that you can sense from 50 feet away. She had gotten lost on the way to the restaurant, and when she finally arrived she threw her arms around me like we'd known each other forever and the adventure began.

You experienced daddies might have had this before, but it was new by me. Perfect face, perfect body, but above all the personality and brains to match. The total package on every level. The chemistry between us, the things we had in common, it seemed almost too good to be true, but I've been there before in my civvy dating life, so I know a good match when I see one... The first girl I met that I had chemistry with like this I ended up marrying! Girls like this are few and far between.

She was the kind of woman I could never get bored talking to, or fucking, or just hanging out with. Just the total package. We went out to a couple of nightclubs after dinner, and multiple young bucks were making their pass at her whenever I left to get a drink or take a piss. I watched her from across the room to see how she would react -- she looked at these guys like "are you kidding me? Fuck off loser! I'm with my man" even though she didn't know I was watching. The night could not have been any more perfect, she knew how to treat her man.

Back at the hotel she was as horny as you'd want your SB to be. I did notice that her sexual behavior seemed a bit on the sweet / affectionate side, more so than I usually want in a casual encounter. In between sessions I even asked her not to be afraid to unleash her "naughty sltty" side that I knew she had She just giggled.

Throughout the night, while sleeping, I would sometimes wake up to find her running her fingers across my shoulders / arms / chest, kissing my shoulder lightly, snuggling, etc. It was a true girlfriend experience night for me and apparently a boyfriend experience for her. I got the impression that she might be sizing me up for sort of a long-term boyfriend type situation (and if you've read my posts here before, you may know I'm already in a committed relationship).

The next morning, I told her that she greatly exceeded my expectations of who I could meet from an SB site. I told her she was more like girlfriend or soulmate material than just an SB, but I said unfortunately I'm not in a position to offer anything like that because my heart already belonged to someone from a prior relationship (I didn't tell her I'm still in that relationship, I just didn't have the heart). She did not act disappointed, she said she also is still emotionally attached to someone who treated her badly and is having trouble getting over him. I mostly just wanted to make clear that we would probably never see each other again (but I didn't tell her it was because my sugar daddying season, at least for this year, was about to come to an end).

She stayed with me until the next afternoon. I missed her the instant she left. We've texted each other minimally since then, but it seems fully understood we'll never see each other again. God... what an awesome girlfriend she will be for someone else.

Anyway, the thing that troubled me the entire night is what troubles me now... There is no way a night like that cannot have an impact on my current relationship. Same was true when I used to be married -- I cheated so many times, yet never got caught, yet the cheating still took it's toll and cost me the marriage over the long run. It just does something to me inside that affects how I see my existing partner. It takes something away that I don't want to lose.

I feel like this night, and meeting this particular SB, has negatively impacted my relationship with my GF and that is not a good thing. I'm still going through withdrawal now, trying to return to normal. I do look forward to my next "sugar daddying" season, perhaps in a few months or maybe next year, but I hope to keep things as just casual flings instead of meeting someone who is a 10 out of 10 in every category, because it can only hurt the relationship I've spent so many years refining.

If anyone else has had their world rocked by an SB like this, I'd be interested to hear how you pulled yourself out of it.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2047713]I mentioned a few weeks ago, that as a relatively new SD, I had a 100% success rate (straight to the FC after dinner on first date). I also mentioned that I new I would not be able to maintain that as I gained experience. It happened recently, my winning streak was broken. I wrote about it once before here and my message mysteriously went missing without explanation, and hopefully that was a fluke.

She's early 20's, blonde, seriously smoking body. Basically we had texted each other after a brief exchange online, and set up a date for a week night. Her communication was surprisingly reliable / mature / prompt for her age, as I've noticed a lot of wishy-washy behavior below the age of 25 or so and she was not like this. We set up a date based on her work schedule, she told me which day she didn't have to work and I suggested the night before. Why? Because I think it increases my chances of not having to hear "I need to go, I have to work tomorrow". If they want to cut the date short then fine but don't use work as an excuse. Work is overrated anyway.

So we met for dinner -- she was a little late. Dinner went well (set me back $70 or so) and we decided to go bar hopping and have some drinks. Problem was, she picked the bars and they were all extremely loud (too much so for small talk). About 20 minutes into it, I made the mistake of answering a text on my phone. That inspired her to pull her phone out, where she proceeded to text someone. A few minutes later, she says she "needs to go soon". Well, okay, I can't make someone continue a date they don't want to be on.

So as we walked out to the parking lot she suggests we get together the next day -- she doesn't have to work. I said "huh? Tonight was supposed to be our date. I'm not a mid-afternoon date kind of guy." And I basically proceeded to tell her that I make all my decisions based on what happens on the first date. She jokingly said something to the effect that I wasn't going to have much luck with that strategy, and I just disagreed. I basically said no I have plans for the next day (and I wasn't bluffing) and I wasn't going to see her during the day even though it "worked better for her because her energy level was better". She knew many days in advance when our date was and she should have had her shit together.

So after we part ways, she starts texting me, saying if I wanted to sleep with her, I should have let her know. I said of course I wanted to, and she said sure but there is a price. Well that kind of rubbed me the wrong way because thus far, I have never discussed money with any of these girls. I treat it like its any other date, we fuck, then I give them a gift because I want to the next morning. So she wants to play high priced rolodex call girl apparently. I basically told her it should be obvious that there would be financial help involved, but that when it came to sex I had no doubt she would be enjoying me as much as I would be enjoying her, so she should consider the gift as kind of a bonus and not the end game.

Well needless to say she didn't appreciate that one. She started saying she's never been offered less than an amount that is about what most girls would consider a monthly allowance amount, yet for one night. I told her that I'm still fortunate enough to find girls that fuck because they like to fuck and find something appealing about me, and she can look elsewhere for her demands that are more than a pornstar makes in a professional day of work. I just wasn't buying what she was selling, figuratively or literally.

To be honest, looking back there was a red flag I didn't notice early on. Usually I look for positive reactions to my photos -- comments of varying levels of enthusiasm expressing their attraction. I've found a direct correlation between how attracted they are to me and how eager they are to fuck. This girl said something I had not yet heard: "You're not unattractive by any means"... LOL!! She didn't say this until of course after the date during the wrap up conversation, but then it dawned on me she never really expressed any sort of attraction before that. When I sent her photos she would say "thanks" or "nice pic" but never anything flattering or complementary.

So, I mostly wanted to document this moment for posterity and for my own recollection later. I need to learn to read their vibe better. Unfortunately being only an "occasional" SD (whenever my girlfriend travels, which is not often enough), leaves me to learn some things the hard way. Well there, it is, my first unsuccessful M&G.[/QUOTE]I always state my donation and expectations in my intro letter to avoid $70 dates plus drinks. Which is basically the cost of just going straight to the FC. I might get a lot of rejection but I save a whole lotta time.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2047785]I always state my donation and expectations in my intro letter to avoid $70 dates plus drinks. Which is basically the cost of just going straight to the FC. I might get a lot of rejection but I save a whole lotta time.[/QUOTE]I would do things similarly if I were operating at higher volumes. For me, the SB season is a only few weeks out of the year, so I treat it like one long vacation. Probably a good 45 bucks of that bill was all me. She was the type that probably would have liked to skipped dinner altogether and just talked money up front -- just a call girl who hasn't accepted what she is yet really. I like finding the ones that don't have it down to a science yet, and wining and dining them is all part of warming up to the final act. A lot of types dinner + hotel costs me more than the girl does, but then I enjoy good food and nice hotels so I get something out of that too.

If I were able to do this year round I would have to completely reprioritize my spending.

Been feast and famine...you guys know the drill.

SB15, the college cutie I took it easy on first date, agreed to a follow-on slumber party. Then went silent a dew days before. Next I see her on all the usual web sites. SA, SD4 M, AF. So she has gone big time. Oh well. One got away.

SB14 - the young starfish. Texts me late one night she needs sugar. I tell her you will get no sleep! She says Ok and sure enough, not much sleep. I was absolutely worn out at work the next day but certainly got my moneys worth this time.

SB13 - the MILF. Has been sporadic. I had moved on to SB15 but needed her when plans fell thorough. She needs the $ so about once a month is ok. She asks for more but I just tell her I am busy.

All other long term prospects have gone silent.

So working CL, have two M&G this week. Like Hollywood I set $ expectations up front to avoid wasting anyone's time. We shall see.

For the record...lot's of emails sent. 155 contacts exchanging info. About 30 M&Gs. 15 successful SB. Only three 3-holers! Where are the backdoor gals!

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2047864]I would do things similarly if I were operating at higher volumes. For me, the SB season is a only few weeks out of the year, so I treat it like one long vacation. Probably a good 45 bucks of that bill was all me. She was the type that probably would have liked to skipped dinner altogether and just talked money up front -- just a call girl who hasn't accepted what she is yet really. I like finding the ones that don't have it down to a science yet, and wining and dining them is all part of warming up to the final act. A lot of types dinner + hotel costs me more than the girl does, but then I enjoy good food and nice hotels so I get something out of that too.

If I were able to do this year round I would have to completely reprioritize my spending.[/QUOTE]Brother Lizard what's the damage for these hotties you ha been scoring with. What are you paying them? And is it all by the visit or an allowance? How about the 10 you just fucked how much did you give her? And have you gotten any pushback from any of them?

Awesome job.

Revvo.

[QUOTE=Revvo;2047974]Brother Lizard what's the damage for these hotties you ha been scoring with. What are you paying them? And is it all by the visit or an allowance? How about the 10 you just fucked how much did you give her? And have you gotten any pushback from any of them?

Awesome job.

Revvo.[/QUOTE]I've only paid per visit so far.

The 10 is different from all the rest. I gave her 500 because we were together for more than half a day (plus multiple fuck session), she had driven 2 hrs each way to see me without even telling me about the commute she faced before hand, she refused gas money when she needed to refill her vehicle, and she never once mentioned or indicated money, the need for it, or anything else like that. Unlike some others her dinner and drink orders were modest as well. Plus I just felt it was fair considering who she was as a person and what she really brought to me on that day, and the fact I would never see her again.

The rest probably average $.5 to $$ not including activities and lodging (dinners, drinks, hotel, etc) which often costs more than the girl, but of course I am typically the consumer of at least half those other activities.

Right now my SB season is pretty much over (GF has returned), so I'm keeping an eye out for one who is not too far away, can host, and will take care of me during discrete daytime visits. I'm sure it won't be easy to find what I'm looking for. I do have one really nice prospect (super hottie single mom) but she doesn't live by herself right now, so that would involve getting a hotel if I sneak away to meet her.

[QUOTE=Revvo;2047974]Brother Lizard what's the damage for these hotties you ha been scoring with. What are you paying them? And is it all by the visit or an allowance? How about the 10 you just fucked how much did you give her? And have you gotten any pushback from any of them?

Awesome job.

Revvo.[/QUOTE]Apologies Revvo -- I just realized I failed to answer your final question about pushback. So far in all but one case I've sent after the fact texts asked these girls for how they think the date went overall. So far the response has been along the lines of thanking me for the "generous" gift, so I assume there has been no problems thus far with amount I've been giving. I will also say though that none of these girls has really been catering to my sexual needs the way a service provider might (an escort or a masseuse at an AMP might ask or care about what I want, but the SBs I've seen often go so far as to tell me what they want me to do to them in order for them to cum!) I'm the type that likes to please them too, so if they tell me that keeping intense tongue action on their clit will help them cum then I take one for the team and forget about my own pleasure long enough to get the job done (even in a 69 position, most girls don't do a great job of sucking cock when they are focusing on their own orgasm, its kind of a give and take dance in my experience). I'm saying this because maybe they take this into overall consideration when evaluating whether the amount paid was satisfactory?

Only twice have I ever made the mistake of talking about money before we fucked. One time it precluded me from meeting the girl at all due to her ridiculous idea of how much renting her c*nt was worth, and the other time was the failed M&G I posted about a couple of posts back, where we met and then started money talk afterword. I don't mean talking about money before hand is a mistake for everyone, but it does appear to be for me. What I've found works best is to tell them let's meet for dinner and see if there is an attraction there we can work with. After a couple of cocktails they are ready for marathon fucking in all cases so far except that one that I documented. I think I am fairly good at capturing their interest and making the date fun enough that they are willing to shed panties and play "what's behind curtain number 3" (the curtain being the proverbial money envelope), not knowing if the price is right or not or how much they will get after all is said and done. Hehe. The strategy doesn't work if the girl just isn't into me like the blonde I recently wrote about. I found out later from viewing her facebook that she is apparently lovers (bisexual? She likes dudes too based on pics) with another girl that I was talking to about a potential M&G! That's the scary thing, it's like they were both playing me but without letting me know they knew each other. Yet neither one of them were smart enough to remove their real names from their email so I was basically able to see everything about both of their lives and their relationship over the last 3 years or so. LOL.

Interestingly though on the topic of payment, I had one M&G turn into an awesome fuck session with a stunner, only to have her get mad at me and leave in a huff without even taking her gift. She was actually pissed that I tried to pay her. I talked to her later and found out she was looking for sort of a long-term thing and a place to live at the end of the month (something she never told me). She knew over dinner it wasn't possible with me because I told her about my living situation. She still opted to follow me up to the FC and show me a time that was something on the order of a porn movie, yet got pissed at me afterward anyway. Got to love female logic.

The ideal SB experience for me is to be the first guy to pay for it. I love breaking the non pro cherry. And at this point I am sticking to my demographic like glue 90% of the time. 18 to 22 AA or mixed spinners.

The key is hitting them up the very first day they put their profile on the site. They are going to be overwhelmed with messages. It could be anywhere from 20 to literally hundreds. Yours has to stand out.

Tell them exactly what you want and what you are willing to donate. Give them a hint or two about what turns you on and why you find them attractive in a very specific way that can't sound like bs. Not oh baby you're so cute or anything like that.

Today this girl I had been txting since she got on the site the day before seemed very eager to meet but she kept pushing the time back and back and back. But she finally did meet me at 11 pm at a restaurant near my house. I had a quick bite to eat (she ordered nothing) and asked her if she wanted to see my place. We went in my car and left hers in the lot.

We walked through the door and wasted no time going at it. And she liked being told what to do and liked it rough. Nothing sexier than a tiny girl that likes to be man handled. Tiny as in 5'1' and 101 lbs. On the way back I stopped at the ATM and gave her the $ we had agreed on. She was absolutely beaming and said it felt thrilling.

She is a HCB at a top tier university on a full scholarship. Speaks four languages fluently. I had never spoken to her prior to the meet. Only txting. Her British accent caught me by surprise. I love a totally submissive girl that does whatever daddy tells her to do. Definitely going to see her again. 7/9/10/8. And that 8 will easily be going up to a 9 by the second date. She was a happy girl tonite.

I think the end of the line has been reached with the sub SB I've been seeing since the end of November. Part of our arrangement has been that we'd be exclusive to each other. But over the past few weeks, her social media has indicated that she's still seeing the boyfriend that she assured me was an ex. Then last weekend I see she's been logging on to OKCupid. And then today I see that she created a profile on SA. I hate to lose her because I like her a lot and if she had just stuck with everything that we agreed on, it would have been a long-term arrangement. But I'm dipping my toes back in the bowl to see what other young ladies I can find to replace her. I have CL ads up and I reupped with SA. Crossing my fingers that I'll get a keeper.

[QUOTE=FotoGuy1970;2048947]I think the end of the line has been reached with the sub SB I've been seeing since the end of November. Part of our arrangement has been that we'd be exclusive to each other. But over the past few weeks, her social media has indicated that she's still seeing the boyfriend that she assured me was an ex. Then last weekend I see she's been logging on to OKCupid. And then today I see that she created a profile on SA. I hate to lose her because I like her a lot and if she had just stuck with everything that we agreed on, it would have been a long-term arrangement. But I'm dipping my toes back in the bowl to see what other young ladies I can find to replace her. I have CL ads up and I reupped with SA. Crossing my fingers that I'll get a keeper.[/QUOTE]Have you been paying per visit or other allowance terms? If already per visit I'd say just cut back on visits with her, start spending dollars on others as opportunities arise. If she was on a regular allowance then just let her know what you know and that the prior agreement is null and void, but that you'd be interested in per-visit (assuming you are).

I have never really talked or thought much about exclusivity because of my existing relationship. I just assume they all have boyfriends or ex-bfs that still fuck them or that they will be out fucking guys their age for sport (or were recently). I would care of course if they agreed to one thing for a certain amount of money and then betrayed my trust, but I can't imagine putting that trust in any of these girls, especially when I already have a regular girlfriend. I go into most talks with girls with the idea that they have their life, I have mine, and the only thing I ask is that they are reliable / dependable and respect my time because at my point in my life and career my time truly is more valuable than theirs (monetarily I mean).

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2048971]Have you been paying per visit or other allowance terms? If already per visit I'd say just cut back on visits with her, start spending dollars on others as opportunities arise. If she was on a regular allowance then just let her know what you know and that the prior agreement is null and void, but that you'd be interested in per-visit (assuming you are).

I have never really talked or thought much about exclusivity because of my existing relationship. I just assume they all have boyfriends or ex-bfs that still fuck them or that they will be out fucking guys their age for sport (or were recently). I would care of course if they agreed to one thing for a certain amount of money and then betrayed my trust, but I can't imagine putting that trust in any of these girls, especially when I already have a regular girlfriend. I go into most talks with girls with the idea that they have their life, I have mine, and the only thing I ask is that they are reliable / dependable and respect my time because at my point in my life and career my time truly is more valuable than theirs (monetarily I mean).[/QUOTE]I always give her gifts when we see each other. I won't do allowances unless we're local and we're seeing each other frequently during the week (which has yet to happen during my sugar career). I can't cut back much more than I already am, because I only see her once or twice a month. The next inevitable step will be to cut her out for good.

[QUOTE=FotoGuy1970;2048984]I always give her gifts when we see each other. I won't do allowances unless we're local and we're seeing each other frequently during the week (which has yet to happen during my sugar career). I can't cut back much more than I already am, because I only see her once or twice a month. The next inevitable step will be to cut her out for good.[/QUOTE]

If you want to keep her around as a transitional piece of ass until you find something better, you can cut back in payment amount rather than frequency of visit. Just tell her if she's not going to adhere to the original agreement you're going to have to dock the per visit gift by 30% to see what she says. I wouldn't count on a positive reaction, but it sounds like you're already considering cutting ties anyway so why not shoot for discount pussy and make your point at the same time?

JL.

" I have never discussed money with any of these girls. I treat it like its any other date, we fuck, then I give them a gift ".

JL, this is not the spirit of the Sugar bowl. But go for it if it works for you (which it did not this time) A true sugar arrangement is a business deal and it is important IMHO to set the tone with the POT SB. I make it clear up front what I am looking for (=sex) ,not a date. And I ask her what she expects out of the arrangement. Only if she doesn't offer an opinion will I gift her after the deed is done. But # 1 up front is the FC visit no matter what. No sex =no allowance.

" we decided to go bar hopping and have some drinks. Problem was, she picked the bars and they were all extremely loud ".

The thing is, I am all about getting that little Baby into the FC ASAP. Going to bars is unnecessary and distracts her from you. Also excessive boozing results in a drunk baby and you don't need that in the bowl. That is a dating technique to loosen inhibitions. In the SB it is a foregone conclusion. Of course, if that is what you like YMMV.

" Anyway, the thing that troubled me the entire night is what troubles me now... There is no way a night like that cannot have an impact on my current relationship.".

Good material JL. I think this is a good point to make to the brotherhood.

There is no way that a covert relationship cannot impact your SO connection. Most of us are on the SB scene because our relationship with our SO is not great. When there is an emotional connection with someone, it's hard to work your way back from that. Hopefully you can. Don't dabble in Sugarville if you value your SO. There is only heartache ahead.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2049157]The thing is, I am all about getting that little Baby into the FC ASAP. Going to bars is unnecessary and distracts her from you. Also excessive boozing results in a drunk baby and you don't need that in the bowl. That is a dating technique to loosen inhibitions. In the SB it is a foregone conclusion. Of course, if that is what you like YMMV.[/QUOTE]All true. Any girl willing to date someone 30+ years older than her has already dropped or is ready to drop most if not all of her inhibitions. Thats why SB's that say no in the FC don't last too long. There are just too many willing to say yes.

In my opinion, the worst part about searching for a new SB is wading through the GPS girls. One girl who responded to my initial message on SA told me she will take no less than $$$$$ per meeting, for no more than 2-3 hours per meeting. When I told her that it's going to be tough to find someone in this area who will gift that much to her, she told me her last local arrangement was giving her 1 k per date! I told her she should have kept him and wished her the best of luck in finding someone who meets her expectations.

On the other hand, I have a M&G with a HCB in just a couple hours, let's hope it goes well.

[QUOTE=FotoGuy1970;2049195]In my opinion, the worst part about searching for a new SB is wading through the GPS girls. One girl who responded to my initial message on SA told me she will take no less than $$$$$ per meeting, for no more than 2-3 hours per meeting. When I told her that it's going to be tough to find someone in this area who will gift that much to her, she told me her last local arrangement was giving her 1 k per date! I told her she should have kept him and wished her the best of luck in finding someone who meets her expectations.

On the other hand, I have a M&G with a HCB in just a couple hours, let's hope it goes well.[/QUOTE]Be proactive. Make the initial contact with your reasonable donation amount. 80% of the girls that reply are already on the same page. The other 20% will either laugh, try to upsell or be indignant. So what?

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2048611]Apologies Revvo -- I just realized I failed to answer your final question about pushback. So far in all but one case I've sent after the fact texts asked these girls for how they think the date went overall. So far the response has been along the lines of thanking me for the "generous" gift, so I assume there has been no problems thus far with amount I've been giving. I will also say though that none of these girls has really been catering to my sexual needs the way a service provider might (an escort or a masseuse at an AMP might ask or care about what I want, but the SBs I've seen often go so far as to tell me what they want me to do to them in order for them to cum!) I'm the type that likes to please them too, so if they tell me that keeping intense tongue action on their clit will help them cum then I take one for the team and forget about my own pleasure long enough to get the job done (even in a 69 position, most girls don't do a great job of sucking cock when they are focusing on their own orgasm, its kind of a give and take dance in my experience). I'm saying this because maybe they take this into overall consideration when evaluating whether the amount paid was satisfactory?

Only twice have I ever made the mistake of talking about money before we fucked. One time it precluded me from meeting the girl at all due to her ridiculous idea of how much renting her c*nt was worth, and the other time was the failed M&G I posted about a couple of posts back, where we met and then started money talk afterword. I don't mean talking about money before hand is a mistake for everyone, but it does appear to be for me. What I've found works best is to tell them let's meet for dinner and see if there is an attraction there we can work with. After a couple of cocktails they are ready for marathon fucking in all cases so far except that one that I documented. I think I am fairly good at capturing their interest and making the date fun enough that they are willing to shed panties and play "what's behind curtain number 3" (the curtain being the proverbial money envelope), not knowing if the price is right or not or how much they will get after all is said and done. Hehe. The strategy doesn't work if the girl just isn't into me like the blonde I recently wrote about. I found out later from viewing her facebook that she is apparently lovers (bisexual? She likes dudes too based on pics) with another girl that I was talking to about a potential M&G! That's the scary thing, it's like they were both playing me but without letting me know they knew each other. Yet neither one of them were smart enough to remove their real names from their email so I was basically able to see everything about both of their lives and their relationship over the last 3 years or so. LOL.

Interestingly though on the topic of payment, I had one M&G turn into an awesome fuck session with a stunner, only to have her get mad at me and leave in a huff without even taking her gift. She was actually pissed that I tried to pay her. I talked to her later and found out she was looking for sort of a long-term thing and a place to live at the end of the month (something she never told me). She knew over dinner it wasn't possible with me because I told her about my living situation. She still opted to follow me up to the FC and show me a time that was something on the order of a porn movie, yet got pissed at me afterward anyway. Got to love female logic.[/QUOTE]Lizard in my book you are doing amazingly well. Especially for a so called newbie. So far I have only actually fucked and dated a stone cold 10 once she was Russian. And the sex was terrible, she would not kiss and she was always sad. She was nice to me. But after doing her three times I gave up on her.

Sugar was only 200 and I did get to try her out. But people are how you find them and she was seriously broken and I was not going to spend 200 per lesson on a most likely lost cause.

Whatever you are doing keep it up. If you are enjoying it then you are most certainly doing it right. And your reports are awesome. Lots of good info.

I would say though if your 10 was that great I don't know how I could ever stay away from her. LOL.

Revvo.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2049157]JL.

" I have never discussed money with any of these girls. I treat it like its any other date, we fuck, then I give them a gift ".

JL, this is not the spirit of the Sugar bowl. But go for it if it works for you (which it did not this time) A true sugar arrangement is a business deal and it is important IMHO to set the tone with the POT SB. I make it clear up front what I am looking for (=sex) ,not a date. And I ask her what she expects out of the arrangement. Only if she doesn't offer an opinion will I gift her after the deed is done. But # 1 up front is the FC visit no matter what. No sex =no allowance.
[/QUOTE]I do understand some of my operational modes may not be in the spirit of the Sugar bowl, but of course my entire daddying hobby can only take place a within the span of few weeks out of the year, so the way I go about doing things will differ a bit from someone who has it down to an art form. The two times I have talked money before the fact, it turned out in a non-deal. In both cases I know what went wrong -- by asking them how much they wanted, I was pretty much asking them to take a mental trip into fantasy land where the value of their pussy was higher than a top ranked porn star. At that point, it becomes hard to bring the negotiation down to a reasonable range. One girl said she was getting a grand and a half for a weekend, and I said well if you break that down to an hourly rate over a couple of days and consider that I only want to spend a couple of hours with her then what I was offering her, then what I was offering was a much better deal ... Well it wasn't enough to convince her so I ended up never meeting that one. I'm sure that for those who live in an area with much bigger ponds of fish, and especially those of you who do this year round, I'm sure you find what works for you. So far, discussing money up front just hasn't worked for me yet. I always tell them, let's just meet and see if the chemistry is there. Luckily in all cases but one I've been able to charm them into bed without discussing money, and so far they seem happy with what they've received overall (except for the one who wanted a place to live, but she knew I couldn't offer that before we fucked). So I always tell them -- "fuck me only if you feel like fucking me, pretend we're just on a regular date and decide based on chemistry alone". That way, they can't possibly be disappointed with what I pay them at the end of the date. Then I adjust compensation based on how good of a date they were. Note it's not based on how much I want to see them again, I knew I was never going to see the perfect 10 again but I basically gave her 2.5 times my "baseline" per-date allowance for an all nighter which is $$ I did that because she deserved it and never asked for it, the exact opposite of the want to be SBs who are actually just hookers that say up front "theres a price if I sleep with you". I told the two GPS girls if I wanted a hooker I'd just go to backpage and have a lot less BS to deal with. To me a SB is someone who wants to fuck me, and I help her with her bills because I want to. It might not be the official Sugar bowl definition of an SB, and if things don't work out with my GF one day maybe I will become a more proper Sugar bowl participant, but for now I just have to get by as I can during those 2-3 weeks out of the year I get to play.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2049157]JL.
" we decided to go bar hopping and have some drinks. Problem was, she picked the bars and they were all extremely loud ".

The thing is, I am all about getting that little Baby into the FC ASAP. Going to bars is unnecessary and distracts her from you. Also excessive boozing results in a drunk baby and you don't need that in the bowl. That is a dating technique to loosen inhibitions. In the SB it is a foregone conclusion. Of course, if that is what you like YMMV
[/QUOTE]You're correct on all points. Excessive boozing can screw up a date and I almost had that happen. A little college girl who had said she doesn't drink in her profile started tossing them back like nobodies business. I told her be careful I don't want her passing out or puking. Ultimately the alcohol led to a big argument after the first fuck session, but that argument led to a kiss and makeup fuck session that was even more intense than the first. So, it can work both ways.

Also correct that it is a dating technique, but it's also something I enjoy doing. I like going to bars / clubs and drinking, it's not just to loosen her up but it's more simply because I enjoy all of it. When they ask me what I'm looking for in a sugar baby, one of the things I say is that I like the companionship leading up to the events in bed. I like getting to know them over dinner, dancing with them at the club. For me it brings back a lot of great memories of where I used to pick up most of my free pussy. I also like the atmosphere, the music, etc. I'm a musician myself so when I go to a live music place I'm often sizing up the band's gear and looking at how they do things, etc. The sex of course is the capstone event of the night, but I find this dating ritual actually enhances the sex -- women like to be wined and dined by good company, so I try to be that and it usually pays off by the panties dropping with no discussion of money. I guess it's just me but I want to reward them in my way, I would feel subordinate to them if I allowed them to dictate to me how much I was paying. I want it to be more like "okay, I showed you a good date and a good time, and I'm giving you the help for bills because I want to not because I have to". Just a different mode of operation I guess?

And I do realize that some of you guys are daddying in your hometown, thus need the discretion of going straight to the FC without being seen with her in public. I will do the same thing if I ever do this close to home, but for right now I think it's too small of a world so most of my SBs are in other cities.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2049166]" Anyway, the thing that troubled me the entire night is what troubles me now... There is no way a night like that cannot have an impact on my current relationship.".

Good material JL. I think this is a good point to make to the brotherhood.

There is no way that a covert relationship cannot impact your SO connection. Most of us are on the SB scene because our relationship with our SO is not great. When there is an emotional connection with someone, it's hard to work your way back from that. Hopefully you can. Don't dabble in Sugarville if you value your SO. There is only heartache ahead.[/QUOTE]I too have an imperfect relationship with my SO. When it comes to sex, I crave variety and I've been like that as long as I remember. I'm mature enough that I can behave, but when she travels on these extended trips to spend time with family, it leaves me alone in the house by myself (which I hate) and that leaves me bored and unable to resist my cravings for sex with varied partners.

I usually go through some level of withdrawal whenever she comes back from her trips and I have to cease activities. This time, the withdrawal is felt a little worse than usual, because she came back earlier than expected, which means I had to cancel dates with 3 POTs I was really looking forward to. Add to that, the perfect 10 I spoke of in an earlier post showed me such an amazingly good time that it's hard to keep reminding myself that the reality is that if I left the GF and told the 10 to move in with me, in a couple of years I would be back to square one, dealing with the 10's bitchy spells during her period, and then I would be back to craving sex with different partners (and in all honesty probably missing many things about my ex).

So yes, I do value my GF and would prefer not to screw it up -- in fact that takes priority over everything else I do, and is one reason I do not date babys close to home or while the GF is in town. I know it can take a negative toll on the relationship, but being a seasonal activity I think that impact comes in cycles and tends to heal itself as the rest of the year plays out.

I must admit I'm curious about some of the rest of the guys here, especially those married with kids (since I'm not and don't have them). With so many things like alimony / child support up for grabs in this situation, I do sometimes want to understand how well everyone has thought through the risks, what the plan is if things should go terribly sideways, etc. But then I realize it's not really my business so I just wait for someone to volunteer whatever they want to share on the subject.

In the meantime I just have to accept the withdrawal symptoms I go through. The good news is that there is a possibility my GF might be partaking in some care taking of an elderly relative in the near future which might ultimately result in more playtime for me. I'll just have to wait and see.

[QUOTE=Revvo;2049357]Lizard in my book you are doing amazingly well. Especially for a so called newbie. So far I have only actually fucked and dated a stone cold 10 once she was Russian. And the sex was terrible, she would not kiss and she was always sad. She was nice to me. But after doing her three times I gave up on her.

Sugar was only 200 and I did get to try her out. But people are how you find them and she was seriously broken and I was not going to spend 200 per lesson on a most likely lost cause.

Whatever you are doing keep it up. If you are enjoying it then you are most certainly doing it right. And your reports are awesome. Lots of good info.

I would say though if your 10 was that great I don't know how I could ever stay away from her. LOL.

Revvo.[/QUOTE]Revvo, I call myself a newbie because really I am in the sense of the true Sugarbowl. What I do currently is really just dating and is an extension of what I've been doing most of my life, with the added twist of the fact the girls are disproportionately young for me and that there is some help with bills to be had at the end of the fuck session.

My game got developed early -- even as a small child I was such a horny little fuck, I can remember sitting there in bed at age 7 or 8 with a little boner going, fantasizing about fucking my sisters friends, my moms friends, my teacher, etc. Literally that's all I thought about every night when I went to sleep, and I spent a lot of time plotting how I could satisfy my urges when I got old enough to act on them. Became sexually active at 13 with my girlfriend at the time, but also got a lesson in how manipulative / conniving / deceitful / vindictive / controlling a female (even a teenage one) can be if you allow them to feel like they've taken charge for even a moment. I took the pain from that experience and turned it into a learning experience and developed my craft as I got older. There are lots of areas of handling women that are still quite under-developed for me. My first marriage failed and I still find long-term relationships extremely challenging... It's so much easier for me to serial date than it is to actually live with someone. I have friends that have much better luck in long-term relationships than me and I sometimes wish my skills were more balanced in that regard. But, the portion of my game that is well-developed is the part that pays off big-time in terms of procuring sex during not only SB hunting but just online dating in general.

So the success that I've revealed here is really only part of the equation, I guess, as it only speaks to my ability to quickly take things from the M&G stage to the FC for an epic romp. Beyond that, there is only one SB (and this was a stripper I met in a strip club) that I've even had more than one date with. I think a truly successful SB would have a harem of ongoing, low-cost high quality-pussy, maybe juggling half a dozen or so at a time and making sure when one cycles out that the vacancy is filled with equal or better. Right now my relationship with my girlfriend doesn't allow me to even attempt that. I'm actually envious of HollywoodGuy sometimes, living in a place like L.A. Where there is a constant supply of girls nearby. Maybe if things don't work out with my GF I should move to L.A. .

JL, it sounds like you have got the skills to mostly date and still attract the youngsters that we all crave (youth, fitness, charm, looks?) . If that works for you there is no need to go through the drama of allowances and arrangements. You do however have a monogamous relationship with your GF 50 weeks / year and seem to be good at that so far. So your long term relationship skills seem to be quite good.

JL, I am just like you. I hate being alone and I like variety. Its a dilemma for sure. I used to serial date or marry, always living with someone. Most girls are not interested in living with someone in an open relationship. Quite by chance I ended up where I am now. With a roommate that takes care of me when I need it and who is not my SO or GF in any way. More of a best friend. And she keeps all the girls that would like to move in on me away.

When I am living alone, I am weak and girls sense this and try to take advantage. So for now this is my solution. It's like an insurance policy, because it does cost me. But I am sure far less than if I had a GF living here. My roommate currently has a new and very generous SD and a hot young BF, so there is no emotional drama between her and I. I just make sure she looks good, has a safe place to chill and is well fed. I don't really have an answer to your situation, I can only share mine.

Just an added note to the lurker who reports all my posts to her. She has free rent, my protection, a generous SD that is spending money like water on her and a super stud BF that you can never compete with. So why don't you just admit you don't have a chance with her and go away already. Aren't you tired of being some lame stalker dude? You obviously know how to read, so why not just take some tips from this site or cruise hollywood blvd for some desperate homeless girl to take advantage of?

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2049994]Revvo, I call myself a newbie because really I am in the sense of the true Sugarbowl. What I do currently is really just dating and is an extension of what I've been doing most of my life, with the added twist of the fact the girls are disproportionately young for me and that there is some help with bills to be had at the end of the fuck session.

My game got developed early -- even as a small child I was such a horny little fuck, I can remember sitting there in bed at age 7 or 8 with a little boner going, fantasizing about fucking my sisters friends, my moms friends, my teacher, etc. Literally that's all I thought about every night when I went to sleep, and I spent a lot of time plotting how I could satisfy my urges when I got old enough to act on them. Became sexually active at 13 with my girlfriend at the time, but also got a lesson in how manipulative / conniving / deceitful / vindictive / controlling a female (even a teenage one) can be if you allow them to feel like they've taken charge for even a moment. I took the pain from that experience and turned it into a learning experience and developed my craft as I got older. There are lots of areas of handling women that are still quite under-developed for me. My first marriage failed and I still find long-term relationships extremely challenging... It's so much easier for me to serial date than it is to actually live with someone. I have friends that have much better luck in long-term relationships than me and I sometimes wish my skills were more balanced in that regard. But, the portion of my game that is well-developed is the part that pays off big-time in terms of procuring sex during not only SB hunting but just online dating in general.

So the success that I've revealed here is really only part of the equation, I guess, as it only speaks to my ability to quickly take things from the M&G stage to the FC for an epic romp. Beyond that, there is only one SB (and this was a stripper I met in a strip club) that I've even had more than one date with. I think a truly successful SB would have a harem of ongoing, low-cost high quality-pussy, maybe juggling half a dozen or so at a time and making sure when one cycles out that the vacancy is filled with equal or better. Right now my relationship with my girlfriend doesn't allow me to even attempt that. I'm actually envious of HollywoodGuy sometimes, living in a place like L.A. Where there is a constant supply of girls nearby. Maybe if things don't work out with my GF I should move to L.A. .[/QUOTE]Keep doing what you are doing. It isn't always this successful. But you seem to have a knack for it. So my take on it would be for you to give advice more than ask for it. Or just keep reporting.

On the marriage SO side. I have a few opinions on that.

1. Yes I think this hobby can affect your SO relationship. But not necessarily. It all depends on what you are doing what your current relationship is and how you are handling it. If you feel guilty and hate your SO and feel resentment toward her for not giving you what you think you deserve. Then yes. Anything like this will affect it. Most likely you are subconsciously looking for a way out.

2. If you are just out there playing a little and just want some variety then you could probably do this without creating much of a stir in your SO. And are conscious of yourself and not feeling guilt or judging yourself.

But let me offer some other advice. You have been married before and you are headed there again. Now I know nothing about your relationship. But I would urge you to think carefully about your next steps. If you are already doing this hobby and you have not even got married yet. It will not get any better. If you want to spend some money just go ahead and buy your girlfriend a house now. And dispense with the pain of a divorce. LOL.

You have already been married why would you do this to yourself again? If I was in your position. I would use your excellent skills to date and meet as many hot and cool women as I can find until I came across someone. Who could be happy in a LT relationship...possibly even accept a little playing on the side occasionally.

They are out there. But please think carefully. If I was in your position. Even with my ok skills. I would not be in the sugar bowl. I would be out there playing with the civvies. And looking for someone of like mind. And they do exist. I have only had two ATFs my current little Italian Princess and my previous ATF of last year. And both of them would have been perfect for me in a real LT relationship with a lot of sexual openness, both absolutely beautiful, both were fun and interesting. But hey I am already married. And I have kids.

So I continue to play in the bowl. Good luck brother.

Revvo.

[QUOTE=Revvo;2050492]Keep doing what you are doing. It isn't always this successful. But you seem to have a knack for it. So my take on it would be for you to give advice more than ask for it. Or just keep reporting.

On the marriage SO side. I have a few opinions on that.

1. Yes I think this hobby can affect your SO relationship. But not necessarily. It all depends on what you are doing what your current relationship is and how you are handling it. If you feel guilty and hate your SO and feel resentment toward her for not giving you what you think you deserve. Then yes. Anything like this will affect it. Most likely you are subconsciously looking for a way out.

2. If you are just out there playing a little and just want some variety then you could probably do this without creating much of a stir in your SO. And are conscious of yourself and not feeling guilt or judging yourself.

But let me offer some other advice. You have been married before and you are headed there again. Now I know nothing about your relationship. But I would urge you to think carefully about your next steps. If you are already doing this hobby and you have not even got married yet. It will not get any better. If you want to spend some money just go ahead and buy your girlfriend a house now. And dispense with the pain of a divorce. LOL.

You have already been married why would you do this to yourself again? If I was in your position. I would use your excellent skills to date and meet as many hot and cool women as I can find until I came across someone. Who could be happy in a LT relationship...possibly even accept a little playing on the side occasionally.

They are out there. But please think carefully. If I was in your position. Even with my ok skills. I would not be in the sugar bowl. I would be out there playing with the civvies. And looking for someone of like mind. And they do exist. I have only had two ATFs my current little Italian Princess and my previous ATF of last year. And both of them would have been perfect for me in a real LT relationship with a lot of sexual openness, both absolutely beautiful, both were fun and interesting. But hey I am already married. And I have kids.

So I continue to play in the bowl. Good luck brother.

Revvo.[/QUOTE]I might have given the impression that the current SO is something that will one day lead to marriage when I referred to my "first wife" (as if there might be a second. But, I actually have no intention of ever getting married again. When I first went through a divorce it was a weird adjustment period, and I realized that I had been preprogrammed to believe that being married was one of those things everyone needed to do in order to be happy. I've been in my current relationship close to a decade now (with a couple of separations where I was back on the dating scene) and we do not even discuss the idea of marriage any more. When I bought my current house, I didn't even take the GF with me to look at potential properties. Many years ago I talked to her about the option of buying a house jointly (in retrospect I'm glad I didn't), but at the time that was more because I was trying to test her commitment level. She didn't want to be a part of financing the purchase, so she is not a part of the purchase decision nor is she ever going to get her name anywhere near the property title.

A couple of years ago when we were split up, I was doing just as you said -- civvy dating and looking for something long-term and sustainable. I really don't want a SB-turned girlfriend, they are too accustomed to getting top dollar for their youthful pussies and although maybe I'm just naïve due to lack of experience, I don't see too many of them making a proper adjustment to a situation where they are actually contributing to the household finances rather than simply draining them. The 10 I spoke of before, I can kind of see her doing that with some lucky guy because she was extremely mature for her age, and when I spoke to her about her actual motivation for sugarbabying, I think it was way more about her enjoyment of being an older man's fantasy experience than it was the direct financial help, so I didn't get the impression she is the typical spoiled material girl. I can see her growing out of the SB scene in a few years and wanting to start a family (in fact she told me that's her plan). But most of them, I see them keeping it going until they get to their late 30's or 40's and are no longer taken seriously as sugarbabies, and then I don't know what comes next for them, either they become aging escorts or discount backpage tugjob artists or similar.

Thankfully my current girlfriend does contribute (begrudgingly sometimes, but even that is better than nothing) to the overall household finances (paying a little bit of rent, occasionally buying groceries, etc). She always jokes that she wants me to be her sugar daddy and my response to that is if I wanted to be someone's sugar daddy I'd go find some barely legal girl that I could see once a week and not have to listen to her the rest of the time. Little does she know that's what I actually do when she travels and leaves me here alone.

What happened to the man? I wanted to catch up on his escapades and discovered he has posted since Dec '13. Anyone know what's up? I miss his writing style and success stories.

[QUOTE=WoodSlinger;2052313]What happened to the man? I wanted to catch up on his escapades and discovered he has posted since Dec '13. Anyone know what's up? I miss his writing style and success stories.[/QUOTE]Good wishes to Scottie in whatever he may getting himself into these days. I think about him a lot & hope all is well.

Good wishes to all my other brothers here in the bowl as well. I've had my own reasons to avoid this lifestyle lately but still hope you are all scoring huge and spreading the love far and wide.

Peace,

Chi.

[QUOTE=ChiGuy606;2052738]Good wishes to Scottie in whatever he may getting himself into these days. I think about him a lot & hope all is well.

Good wishes to all my other brothers here in the bowl as well. I've had my own reasons to avoid this lifestyle lately but still hope you are all scoring huge and spreading the love far and wide.

Peace,

Chi.[/QUOTE]I echo that sentiment. I do not know Scott's situation at all but I do know that the Sugar lifestyle is relatively short lived for a married SD. Eventually the sneaking around is discovered and unless divorce is an immediate result the SD is off the shelf struggling to repair the damage done. Many of us want to stay married for a variety of reasons, and have to work through barrels of well earned shit. This is my situation. I still dabble and keep an occasional FB but can no longer pursue a full on SB search. The antennae are up and suspicion is high and every move is monitored. What a life -eh?

So this is why I encourage guys dabbling in the bowl to be absolutely sure that they want to take that 1st step down a road that will inevitably end up in a world of hurt. Now the single guys have it made although some, like JL, have GFs who will bolt if any hint of sugar participation comes out.

So guys who have quit did so IMHO because 1) they were busted by the SO 2) they are trying to repair a broken relationship 3) not enough $$ to play anymore 4) they aged out ad are just not attractive enough or able to pursue young Babies 5) can't sexually perform anymore due to health issues.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2053059]I echo that sentiment. I do not know Scott's situation at all but I do know that the Sugar lifestyle is relatively short lived for a married SD. Eventually the sneaking around is discovered and unless divorce is an immediate result the SD is off the shelf struggling to repair the damage done. Many of us want to stay married for a variety of reasons, and have to work through barrels of well earned shit. This is my situation. I still dabble and keep an occasional FB but can no longer pursue a full on SB search. The antennae are up and suspicion is high and every move is monitored. What a life -eh?

So this is why I encourage guys dabbling in the bowl to be absolutely sure that they want to take that 1st step down a road that will inevitably end up in a world of hurt. Now the single guys have it made although some, like JL, have GFs who will bolt if any hint of sugar participation comes out.

So guys who have quit did so IMHO because 1) they were busted by the SO 2) they are trying to repair a broken relationship 3) not enough $$ to play anymore 4) they aged out ad are just not attractive enough or able to pursue young Babies 5) can't sexually perform anymore due to health issues.[/QUOTE]Even though I was busted last fall, it seems as though my barrel of shit may not be as deep as yours. Combine that with a flexible business hours work schedule and that is what allows for my playtime. Mind you, that is much more limited than most here on the board. Nights out or sleep overs are usually only possible on a very limited bases, maybe a couple of times per month. Unfortunately, I don't travel for work which leaves my activity area close enough to home for a daytime get together. That is part of what was so painful about Baby1's timing of ending it. She had been pushing for a sleep over, actually getting upset that I always need to wrap things up at the end of the work day. With my SO's "antennae up" that opportunity hadn't been possible until literally the day after Baby1 ended it. They say in life, timing is everything, and that sucked.

With Baby1 out of the picture, I upgraded my sd4 m account and started sending out a personalized form letter. I've gotten a decent response. So far, additional pics that I've received killed it for a few, 1 smoking hot new pot who went dark the day before the m&g, and a couple more who were only available nights and weekends. I'm thinking of contacting pots that are outside of my area or interest and working it a bit just to get my SD legs under me as the number of acceptable pots in my area are limited.

There has been some talk about how different the SB scene is in different locations. I applied my search criteria to a zip code on Hollywood Blvd for comparison purposes. All I can say is WOW! What a difference. I'm in a fairly large market, but I netted 5 times the matches in Hollywood. What was even more striking was the quality of those matches, at face value at least. So far I've been interested in contacting 38% of the matches in my area based upon looks alone. Just taking a stab at a number, but it looks closer to 80% there. Lot's of young beautiful women looking for fame and fortune. So as the bum said in Pretty Woman, "Hollywood, Hollywood, what's your dream?" Apparently it's to be a SB.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2053059]I echo that sentiment. I do not know Scott's situation at all but I do know that the Sugar lifestyle is relatively short lived for a married SD. Eventually the sneaking around is discovered and unless divorce is an immediate result the SD is off the shelf struggling to repair the damage done. Many of us want to stay married for a variety of reasons, and have to work through barrels of well earned shit. This is my situation. I still dabble and keep an occasional FB but can no longer pursue a full on SB search. The antennae are up and suspicion is high and every move is monitored. What a life -eh?

So this is why I encourage guys dabbling in the bowl to be absolutely sure that they want to take that 1st step down a road that will inevitably end up in a world of hurt. Now the single guys have it made although some, like JL, have GFs who will bolt if any hint of sugar participation comes out.

So guys who have quit did so IMHO because 1) they were busted by the SO 2) they are trying to repair a broken relationship 3) not enough $$ to play anymore 4) they aged out ad are just not attractive enough or able to pursue young Babies 5) can't sexually perform anymore due to health issues.[/QUOTE]Great points, and I've been thinking a lot about this lately, as my GF is back, the memories of my SBs are now almost 2 weeks old (1-2 weeks is my typical 'return to reality' recovery time) and even my relationship with her is starting to feel back to normal. This morning when we woke up, I looked at how my GF looks when she rolls out of bed with no makeup on and I remember one of the reasons I fell for her in the first place.

I think for the sake of our own happiness, we have to ask ourselves realistically where we want to be during the final years of our life, alone, as an ATM machine for a young hooker, or with a partner that actually gives a shit about us. It doesn't mean a little bit of fun can't take place in the interim, but we have to remember it's an extremely addictive hobby to fuck young / hot ladies -- however is it sustainable and can it really be the end game? For me, it cannot be either. I make a decent living but I could never afford to live every month like one of my typical "Daddy Vacation Months". I would have enough disposable income, at least for now during my high-earning years, to have lots of fun but I also have the issue to deal with of my financial sensibilities working against my libido, and I do have long-term financial goals to meet. Historically when I find myself having too much fun, my id balances out my ego and reminds me that all things come at a cost and that I need to remain aware of the true risks / rewards involved.

If I lived alone I could do things like share space in my house in exchange for sex, etc. But I know this would not be as fulfilling as my annual daddy vacation, because unless the lady is someone I can generally be buddies with, watch movies / TV etc (which is one important role my GF fulfills), sex alone is not enough motivation for me to let someone be around me every day. For that reason, even when I was single, I typically focused on finding a meaningful partner and someone who would CONTRIBUTE to the total financial picture rather than just place a drain on it. I once even had a friend-with-benefits who was every bit as hot as the SBs I date now, Asian nurse with a smoking body, sex drive that would not quit and a good career... She started a new job near me and was having a tough job finding a room and wanted to pay me $600/ mo to be my roommate, plus of course easy access to the benefits I was already enjoying. Problem was I was just starting another relationship at the time, I really didn't need the money, and while I liked this girl a lot as a friend, I didn't view her personality as GF material (she would drive me nuts) and I saw letting her live with me as getting locked into something that I didn't want in my life (it would only make it hard to date others).

I have already thought a lot about how things might pan out if I got busted. I don't think my GF would leave me because on the overall meter of who-owes-who, you could say she owes me a big one because of some forgiveness about a situation that took place many years ago. But, I also know it would be years before I fully heard the end of it, and for that reason I might end up sending her packing just so that I don't have to deal with the collateral damage and aftermath. It is absolutely a situation I want to avoid at all costs. Just in the last few weeks, I found no less than three POTs that I really wanted to fuck, and that assured me the highest level of discretion, but they had ties to family or friends that were very close to my home, so for that reason I told them it is too small of a world and that I would not meet them because I don't want any awkward moments down the road. Even when they promised me they were experienced at being a paramour, I know from past experience that the emotions of a young lady are something nobody can predict (and taking her at her word that you can trust her secrecy is foolish). Also remember that once she knows that discretion is not something you want, but something you desperately need, she is in a position to use that as leverage against you to get what she wants at some point (if she is that type of person. Some SBs have a heart of gold but you cannot count on it).

I have seriously considered joining Ashley Madison and looking for someone married who has more to lose than I do, just for the occasional discrete hookup. I have not yet been able to motivate myself to do this, but maybe some of you have tried or considered this route. My problem with it is that I have this vision in my mind of horny cougar housewives who are not in the same hotness league as the younger SBs I've been having fun with, but I don't doubt there are some real gems out there to be mined. Its like any other game, takes practice and determination I'm sure.

The optimal circumstance for an SD is an out of town travel schedule. Playing at home is hard to do since it is hard to explain hours off the grid or sightings in public by friends of the "family" Once you are busted it becomes necessary to account for your movements if your SO calls / texts and expects an answer. That dreaded "where are / were you? " turns my blood cold.

Ashley Madison is well covered here, so check out the history JL. Briefly, I have had zero luck as have most of the brothers. You have to be younger and "date " worthy for a cougar. There are some young hotties but they are pickier due to the huge male / female discrepancy and motivation is less since they generally are not looking for money. There are exceptions like in everything. Some singles are SBs in disguise.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2053059] Many of us want to stay married for a variety of reasons, and have to work through barrels of well earned shit. This is my situation. I still dabble and keep an occasional FB but can no longer pursue a full on SB search. The antennae are up and suspicion is high and every move is monitored. What a life -eh?
[/QUOTE]This pretty much explains my situation right now exactly.

I have 2 leftovers from when I was fully in the bowl, and they are both wonderful women to be able to let me see them on a very occasional basis. Other than that, I can no longer afford the time to be fully invested in the bowl like I was last year.

Even if I never return, I will take with me memories that will last me my whole life. It truly was one hell of a ride while it lasted!

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2053328]The optimal circumstance for an SD is an out of town travel schedule. Playing at home is hard to do since it is hard to explain hours off the grid or sightings in public by friends of the "family" Once you are busted it becomes necessary to account for your movements if your SO calls / texts and expects an answer. That dreaded "where are / were you? " turns my blood cold.

Ashley Madison is well covered here, so check out the history JL. Briefly, I have had zero luck as have most of the brothers. You have to be younger and "date " worthy for a cougar. There are some young hotties but they are pickier due to the huge male / female discrepancy and motivation is less since they generally are not looking for money. There are exceptions like in everything. Some singles are SBs in disguise.[/QUOTE]One of the things that I've had to do is set the expectation of communication in the wake of last years discovery. Ignore her call and get back to her a couple of hours later when you have an ironclad alibi (out with mutual friends, etc). Do this from time to time. Blame it on the ringer, cell service, ambient noise, whatever. It becomes more of the norm and lessons her anxiety when you don't pick up or get back to her right away. After a month or two, you'll feel comfortable enough for play time and she won't go ballistic when you don't pick up.

Sooooooooo I got a delicate situation at hand. 3 months ago a SB sends me a text saying she lost it. I'm thinking she lost her mind or lost her house. She goes around in circles and finally tells me she lost the baby. Hmmm? I had no idea she was pregnant and 3 months into the pregnancy for that matter. I'm saddened and relieved but still, why wait 3 months to inform me? Fast forward to now. She admits to lying about the miscarriage so now she is 7 months and every now and then, she sends a picture of the tummy. Well, (Gulp) let's see. She is pretty independent, she says she doesn't need me, she says she can handle this on her own and she lives 1500 miles away. Am I on a clear path to home plate or will there be problems up ahead? In other words, can she say she has no clue as to who the father is or how will all this play out?

[QUOTE=LoriTruck;2053659]Sooooooooo I got a delicate situation at hand. 3 months ago a SB sends me a text saying she lost it. I'm thinking she lost her mind or lost her house. She goes around in circles and finally tells me she lost the baby. Hmmm? I had no idea she was pregnant and 3 months into the pregnancy for that matter. I'm saddened and relieved but still, why wait 3 months to inform me? Fast forward to now. She admits to lying about the miscarriage so now she is 7 months and every now and then, she sends a picture of the tummy. Well, (Gulp) let's see. She is pretty independent, she says she doesn't need me, she says she can handle this on her own and she lives 1500 miles away. Am I on a clear path to home plate or will there be problems up ahead? In other words, can she say she has no clue as to who the father is or how will all this play out?[/QUOTE]I would have to ask you..."Does she have any of your personal information?" Your real name...cell number? Did you cover your tracks at all? Use a burner email? Phone? That's what I do...and connect to the internet for your hunting and connecting via a private anonymous VPN?

I would venture to say that you probably did not cover all of your bases and if push came to shove she could get the courts to subpoena IP information, cell records etc.

Tough position I would never want to be in..makes me regret the few times that I too went bareback with a SB.

[QUOTE=LoriTruck;2053659]Sooooooooo I got a delicate situation at hand. 3 months ago a SB sends me a text saying she lost it. I'm thinking she lost her mind or lost her house. She goes around in circles and finally tells me she lost the baby. Hmmm? I had no idea she was pregnant and 3 months into the pregnancy for that matter. I'm saddened and relieved but still, why wait 3 months to inform me? Fast forward to now. She admits to lying about the miscarriage so now she is 7 months and every now and then, she sends a picture of the tummy. Well, (Gulp) let's see. She is pretty independent, she says she doesn't need me, she says she can handle this on her own and she lives 1500 miles away. Am I on a clear path to home plate or will there be problems up ahead? In other words, can she say she has no clue as to who the father is or how will all this play out?[/QUOTE]Delicate situation indeed, the lying and the game playing so far would give me great concern. I would start slowly building a story of my own that would help to separate me from the situation. Some sort of job or health related tragedy that unfolds slowly over time but basically sends a message to her that you will probably be bankrupt or disabled going forward (I.e. Not a good extortion target).

How much does she know about you (real name, etc)?