"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Gentlemen,

This whole "married or not" discussion goes back to my earlier observation that the Bowl allows us to be completely honest, upfront and unvarnished, which I for one find liberating and exciting. A married SD is not for every baby, and that's fine. Some mention it right in their texts, and so I do not even bother to contact them.

I wear a wedding ring all the time, in fact I'm not sure I could get it off at this point, so there's no use, even if I wanted to, for me to pretend otherwise.

I've met with a few babies who then decide, so they say, that they just can't get past it. True or not, I always reply that I appreciate their letting me know, as opposed to just vanishing, and wish them luck.

One of these has come back a month or so later and, after complimenting me on the politeness of my response, wanted to give it another try. Ultimately, it did lead to some playtime, but in the end I just wasn't all that into her.

If you are married but keeping it hidden, maybe the short term babies will never know, or care, but if you happen to hit on a great, long-term situation, you'll have some 'splainin' to do, and it could just fuck the whole thing up.

This is, of course, my feeling on the matter. As has been pointed out, some babies prefer a married daddy, since we are "safe" and won't be looking to mess their lives up. Some, I believe, even find it a turn-on: they are getting something "forbidden". If only they knew, LOL!

Have a great weekend, my brothers. Still no news worth printing on this end, but the situation continues to look rosier and rosier.

Keep up the good work,

Scott

Gentlemen, and especially members of my local chapter,

I feel I need to post up this short message, alerting you that apparently I have been single-handedly pruning the Chicago tree of Baby deadwood. I have just had the most bizaare email exchange with a baby I met for the first time yesterday, and with whom by both accounts I had a wonderful coffee hour. A follow-up text from her re-iterated this, and closed with promises of more good times to come. I swear I am not making this up!

Today I got one of the chillier slap-downs I have ever received, totally unprovoked, in my mind, by anything I had said earlier. I hadn't even emailed or contacted her in any way since our meeting yesterday, and am greeted, in part, by sentences such as this," I am not the sort of person who can have that sort of connection with an older man, money involved or no." Ok, overlooking the repetition of the word "sort", why the fuck did you respond to me in the first place? Why did you send me 17 long emails telling me about your entire life up to now, closing with tender endearments? Why, at the base of it all, are you on SA? You're not going to meet your hubby here! We're called "daddies" and "babies" for a reason, get it?

I will spare you the additional bewildering emails from her, but suffice it to say that, by my count, since I rejoined SA three or so months ago, I have personally weeded out 6 psychos, or Conflicted Babies, who have cancelled their profiles after encountering me, sometimes only once, but not after dumping some crazy shit on me! It truly makes a man wonder what kind of world we live in. Do they think we will pay them just to hang out with us? I'm not that desperate ... yet! Thank God for Polo and Brit, and my Asheville nursery. Honestly!

Anyway, no real value here other than humor, I hope, except to say I feel more than ever we must love the pursuit as much as the prize. I find it ironic that I have this experience immediately after I post my thoughts below about honesty. I swear I am totally upfront about my situation, what I'm looking for, what I am willing to do, and what I expect in return, but in a very polite way! Maybe it has something to do with the economy?

Peace,

Scott

PS - I'm not a bad-looking guy, right Mandy?

Re: Pictures.

If I was dealing with semi-Pros or UTR girls I might be inclined to post pictures. But most of the babies I'm dealing with are just regular girls. Okay maybe I'm using the term "regular" a bit loosely, but many of them aren't hiding their real identities or facebook profiles and they're not trying to make a business of out of this. They're basically girls who have regular lives that they are willing to suppress some of their morals to have an older guy make things easier for them. But they're not living out of hotels, posting CL / BP ads, or seeing dozens of "clients" UTR. Just as I expect my SB to be discreet with any information they know about me, I'm going to respect their privacy and I'm not going to post their picture (even with their face blurred) on a public sex site. IMO, it's a violation of the discretion part of the agreement.

Also another reason is that I don't want to risk exposing myself either. Many of us (and the lurkers who read this forum) fish from the same sugar baby ponds. If I post a picture of a SB, someone else could still recognize her, contact her, and point them to this topic. All of a sudden my forum postings here could be linked to my real world. You risk your anonymity by posting pics of SBs who frequent sugar daddy sites. For us married guys, we have to be a bit more cautious than you single SDs. Especially since in this particular topic, we post A LOT of details about our various escapades. I think it's best for most of us to leave a little ambiguity by keeping our posts literary driven. As it is, we use nick / code names for our SBs in this topic, unlike the LA Non-Pro topics, which post real names.

I obviously enjoy looking at the pics in the other Non-Pro topics, but I'm perfectly fine with this topic not having pictures. This topic is more story driven, than picture driven. And I think it fits the SD / SB lifestyle.

[QUOTE=John G Smith; 1558324]Re: Pictures.

If I was dealing with semi-Pros or UTR girls I might be inclined to post pictures. But most of the babies I'm dealing with are just regular girls.

For us married guys, we have to be a bit more cautious than you single SDs.

I obviously enjoy looking at the pics in the other Non-Pro topics, but I'm perfectly fine with this topic not having pictures. This topic is more story driven, than picture driven. And I think it fits the SD / SB lifestyle.[/QUOTE]I am starting to appreciate the theme on this thread. And thanks for the insight.

While I have done a lot of sd. Ing. I also do a lot of utr girls. And of course I am not in your area. And yes I am single. So observing what other people do and stirring the pot once in a while is the only way for me to learn anything. Thanks again.

I don't log into this forum to read about love stories. I log in to read the latest fuck story or how the latest attempt to fuck went wrong.

What's wrong with the sexcapade stories?

Let's see. The Forum has taken an interesting turn of late.

I've read:

A post disparaging those who make 'notching' posts.

A post that says: I pay women to fuck me; I'm honest; I prefer not to lie; and I am married.

A post from a married SD's who states that posting pictures violates the SD / SB arrangement. Makes me say hmmm. As I wonder aloud what he thinks of his original arrangement. Yeah, the one that he made with his wife. LOL.

Seriously Gentlemen. Have we become so enamored with our sugar baby pursuits as to forget that what we are really doing is asking 'regular' women to become our personal ho's?

I understand that we all need to engage in a certain amount of rationalization to get though life. But do we have to do it here? In this Forum? Where we use the euphemism of 'Sugar Baby' and 'Sugar Daddy' to sweeten the bitter reality of what we are all doing?

I read some very practical reasons why photos are not posted in this Forum. But I've also read some outrageous ones that border on complete delusion. Like the posts proclaiming the higher nature of the Sugar Baby / Sugar Daddy relationship. Posts that show concern for the poor sugar baby that might be outed someday. (Ask Hernando if not posting a picture helped with that). Concern that we might loose access to some pussy that we are paying for. LOL I cannot even keep a straight face while I write this. And find myself rolling on the floor laughing when I read such things.

Am I missing something here? As they say in talk radio: 'I'll take my answer off the air'

SubCmdr out!

[QUOTE=SubCmdr; 1558384]I don't log into this forum to read about love stories. I log in to read the latest fuck story or how the latest attempt to fuck went wrong.

What's wrong with the sexcapade stories?[/QUOTE]Not a damn thing. While I personally prefer stories that are more than just chest thumping, I also recognize that there is an element of that in almost all of the posts here, including my own, and that not everyone feels the way I do. Since I get to choose what I read and don't read, just like everyone else, I don't see any problem.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1558384]A post from a married SD's who states that posting pictures violates the SD / SB arrangement.[/QUOTE]Well, to be fair, I only stated that it would be a violation of [b]my [/b]arrangement, and that I thought others might feel the same way. For those who don't feel that way or who have babies who don't mind, I'm certainly not going to suggest that such pictures should be forbidden or anything like that.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1558384]Makes me say hmmm. As I wonder aloud what he thinks of his original arrangement. Yeah, the one that he made with his wife. LOL.[/QUOTE]As to this, I can only advise, again, that you check your premises.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1558384]Seriously Gentlemen. Have we become so enamored with our sugar baby pursuits as to forget that what we are really doing is asking 'regular' women to become our personal ho's?[/QUOTE]Well, personally, I see nothing wrong with wanting, and taking reasonable precautions, to preserve a relationship where I get some of the best pussy I've ever had, from a girl who enjoys it (or fakes it [i]really [/i]well) and doesn't want much from me aside from some financial help. Sure, it's going to end some day, but until that day comes, I'm going to do my best to not piss her off by posting a picture in a public place, pronouncing that she's my "personal ho". True as it may be, I see no good coming from it aside from the titillation of people whose good opinions mean much less to me than hers. That last isn't intended to be an insult, just a statement of fact.

[noparse]/[/noparse]z

" babies prefer a married daddy, since we are "safe" and won't be looking to mess their real lives up " ala F Scott.

Each sb and sd has our own needs and rationalizes them in a way that preserves our sanity and dignity. My SB did not want a guy who could interfere with her real life. She made it clear when the shit hit the fan that I was not EVER going to be introduced to Mom, Dad, Sisters, or friends. Therefore I knew my place in her life. On the other hand, she made me feel like the only man in her world and that was good enough for me. She in fact, was THE perfect SB. When the double dose of shit hit the fan and she was outed to her family and work associates then she tossed me aside like yesterday's chopped liver. So it sure busted my bubble of hope that she really could be an IRL girlfriend. NOT!

" I understand that we all need to engage in a certain amount of rationalization to get though life. But do we have to do it here? In this Forum? Where we use the euphemism of 'Sugar Baby' and 'Sugar Daddy' to sweeten the bitter reality of what we are all doing?" ala Subcmdr

Yes! I have always maintained that this pursuit is prostitution no matter how you want to color it. Perhaps it is a kinder and gentler version. But it is what it is and we all have to live with that. Particularly the young girls who try to deny that fact while taking our money and our semen (ouch! That was harsh wasn't it?).

I am single. I always have a few regular girls and I make sure that they all know about each other. And also that I will hook-up with a few random girls a month as well. This have a pseudo type marriage of sorts. I tell the girls I am married. To my job and my hobby. That I am a girl addict. Nothing they do or say is going to change that. So what kind of girl would be willing to join in this type of relationship?

1. The curious.

2. The ones that think they can change me.

3. The ones that like that I have proven my ability to support multiple women.

4. The ones that think I am a stud.

5. The ones that don't want someone too clingy.

6. The ones that are grateful for any decent guys attention.

7. The ones that want to learn to be utr, pros or sugar babbies.

I do not search out any BP or known pro girls. But some non-pro girls do eventually advance their careers so to speak.

I do not see being married in the traditional sense as being a problem to having a good sb relationship. Some girls will pass on that for sure. And there are ones that will pass on you if you are not married. I always say you can't be everything to everyone. So why try. And this is why I am not married. As a husband I was very demanding. Expecting my wife to provide everything in every way. This is not a reasonable expectation. With a wife and a sugar baby or having multiple sugar babies I can divide the expectations between them. I believe that there are women that feel the same way, want the same thing or are at least willing to compromise the dream of the knight in shining armor to get a piece of the pie.

Kinda rambling but hopefully I made a point or two. In the 20 years I was married I was always honest with whoever I was cheating with about my marital status.

After having spoken to many girls about this topic and other sensitive issues. Almost universally they tell me they appreciate me being upfront with the info so they can make an intelligent decision about what they want out of the relationship and with out the bullshit or uncertainty. Women are pretty good bs detectors when it comes to other girls, relationships or any kind of lying in matters of the heart.

I am not judging anyone. I am not attacking anyone. I just expressed an opinion and I'm just trying to understand. I asked a question. Others have answered it. I appreciate that. And don't get me wrong. I LOVE this fucking forum. (pun intended) It has opened my eyes to an entire world of pussy I did not even know existed.

Ok, I think I get it. Lying to the wife protects the original arrangement. Keeping the explicit or implicit agreement to all others allows you to continue to drill deep in all of the holes of your personal ho. Yes, take care of you first. Makes sense to me. I can't hate on you for that. I really don't give a damn if anyone posts pictures or not. I'm not going to post any pictures here because the unstated culture of this particular forum frowns upon it.

I work for the government. When you take that dollar out of my pocket without my permission. Don't tell me you 'misappropriated my funds'. No mother fucker 'you just stole from me! 'My point is there is no reason to claim that pursuit of the babies is a higher calling than picking up street meat. I'm saying simply call a garden tool a garden tool. It does not matter if you buy it at Home Depot or Tiffany's or what fancy name you choose to call it. It is still a garden tool and you will still use it to dig in the dirt.

[QUOTE=Hernando; 1558543]"

Yes! I have always maintained that this pursuit is prostitution no matter how you want to color it. Perhaps it is a kinder and gentler version. But it is what it is and we all have to live with that. Particularly the young girls who try to deny that fact while taking our money and our semen (ouch! That was harsh wasn't it?).[/QUOTE]Just give to me straight no chase. Look me straight in my face and just tell it like it is!

SubCmdr out

A recent experience I had seems worth mentioning in the context of recent posts. I have still been communicating with my first SB, and still my favorite, who moved out of state (about 150 miles away) for grad school. We had seen each other once since then, when she was home for a family wedding, and were making plans last Friday to see each other again. She had never asked for a specific amount of money for our meetings, in fact had never asked about money at all. That is one of the reasons I liked her (and was more generous with her than with others). She had told me I was her first, and still only, SD (truth? Lie? Who knows).

In planning her visit, I told her I'd give her my usual gift plus an extra $ for gas money since she was making the trip specifically to see me (if I was making the trip in my V8 pickup, I'd probably spend about. 8 in gas round trip). She texted back with "how about $$?" After 10 minutes of silence from my end, she added "times are tough."

I texted back to ask whether she thought I wasn't generous enough, and she texted "I need the usual plus $$ to come down."

Another 30 minutes of silence on my end brought "don't you think I'm worth it?" Based on the exchange to that point, I was already considering burning that bridge. After that response, I made the decision. My answer to her: "Sugar Babies accept gifts, prostitutes set prices. Before you text me back, you need to decide which you are."

Needless to say, I haven't heard back from her. I don't expect to.

Sometimes, you have to dismiss a patient. It's a regrettable, but necessary, part of practicing in this specialty.

Dr. Feelgood

What's ironic is that on another forum on this site, I've been in a debate trying to encourage more members to post intel / info on Pros who advertise in BP / CL. And I'm getting yelled at for not being secretive enough. LOL.

Anyway, I have no hard feelings here. I enjoy a healthy debate / argument. It's nice to see other perspectives even if I don't agree with them and they don't agree with me. Can always learn something.

Anyway a few things and I'm just speaking for myself. Don't take my comments as representing this forum, they just represent me.

I've always been a shades of grey type of person rather than seeing things in black and white. For example, I don't see every type of girl in this lifestyle as a singular type of garden tool to dig in the dirt. Mainly because I'm not always looking to dig holes. Sometimes I want to do a bit of sanding, so a garden hoe would be inadequate for the job.

To take it to the real world, when I'm looking for a quality sugar baby I'm not simply looking for a young lady to drill for cheap. That can be accomplished easy enough through BP. I'm not looking to get e-involved, but I am looking to have somewhat of a friendship connection and to have someone who I can chat / txt with regularly beyond the FC. I'm looking for something of a traditional "mistress". That's my personal reasons for chasing sugar babies.

Look I know a sugar baby is ultimately there for my money and I'm ultimately there for her body. But unlike with an escort, I may know some of her personal info and what she's going through and etc. And she has some level of respect for me even if there's little attraction. A BP / CL garden tool doesn't need to respect you for shit. You could weigh 300 pounds and work as a sign twirler and she'll still bang you for 15 min if you got 80 bucks. Most sugar babies aren't hardened to that point yet and still have some gag reflexes.

Heck, just recently I had 3 sugar babies reject me because of my looks. I had financial details all arranged perfectly and we were good to go. But I delayed on sending my picture so when I did send it, I got flat out rejected and never heard from them again. My money was good enough for them, but apparently my face or race wasn't. (And I'm not a bad looking guy!)

Granted some sugar babies are less picky, just want to do the deed, and get paid. Those do fall into the garden tool variety. I sometimes have a couple of those girls on the side, but that's not primarily what I'm looking for with sugar babies. Remember I gave my ISBE rating system a few weeks ago. Everyone's ISBE will be a little different.

I don't think any one type is better than another. It just depends on what you're looking for. There's no "higher" calling. Just a "different" calling. Though I always got the vibe that this particular sub-forum is generally composed of guys who are looking for more mid / long term sugar baby relationships, not random hookups. So if you're looking for longer term arrangements, of course you're going to be more careful about posting pics and such because there's just an inherent personal connection when you see someone regularly for at least several months.

As for the lying / honesty discussion, most of us here are all hypocrites to a degree. But again, I'm a shades of gray person. Just because I ended up lying in one situation, doesn't mean I'm branded a liar for all time and obligated to lie / disrespect others until my dying days. Sometimes I'm a gentlemen, sometimes I'm an asshole. I strive to be the former more often than not, but hey shit happens. On the whole though, I try to treat everyone with respect.

Wow I have been busy with wordly pleasures and not been able to dive into the personal journals here. Is it election time or so that we have to discuss morals, posting or not posting pictures.

Gee I thought that the fact that I reached the point where I can have my play mate (aka a sugar baby, or personable ho, or affair or space craft or vessel. Who cares) reach a climax by just talking to her. By taking her on the journey, with just holding her hand and getting her into warp speed with just words and whispers and then to climax is just a show how much a play mate can be into you.

Hope you all enjoyed your last days as much as I did, and yes my long and short range sensors are overloaded with incoming space craft, any local traffic controllers who can take some load of me?

I have been "swimming" inside the sugar bowl for a week now, and would like to share some of my personal opinion:

- Thanks for this thread and many of you's great advices.

- Most of the pots (95%+) are expecting escort's treatment or higher especially w / sugar amount (excluding GPS)

- Most of the pots do not give a "fu? K" about chemistry, and SB / SD relationship. Pretty much Prostitution mindset.

- Lot of time, but not much return. (Experience is part of the fun)

- If I see a Nando#1 especially without job, I should just run and don't look back.

Given that I refuse to pay escort amount and rules (e. G, time on a date) [Thanks for the advices from Cmdr], I am just not getting much luck. Anyway, going to slow down on the search and hybrid back into escort world for a while.

Just my personal opinion. If you don't agree, I am happy to hear it but please don't stab me.

Fellow brothers-in-pussy,

I'd be interested in a market survey of the local costs for SB's in each area. I don't know if that would be too revealing from a privacy stand point? Or if it would be considered a invasion of privacy of the SB / SD relationship? But I'm curious.

If you are hammer, every problem is a nail. And if you are a gun, every problem is a target. I'm a market guy and I see the sugar world as a transactional sex market. And if it is a market then there are bid and ask prices. And there are certain market factors in each geographical area that are going to effect these bid and ask prices. Also, each SD and SB chooses the a market segment they wish to operate within. Is my view of this world a over simplification?

I know that I offer very low sugar amounts. My philosophy is that if you are not a professional, then you are not going to get paid like one. If you are a true non-pro then you should be simply getting a gift for something you give away for free in your personal life. As such, I look at escort prices and set my sugar amounts accordingly.

In fact, I had a SB tell me,"My girlfriend who is on this site says she gets 1K a meet. Your offer is less than what BP girls get." Wow! Go be a BP girl! Who pays 1K a meeting for pussy? Really? Pussy that you are not married to? Is pussy really worth that much? Even if I had that kind of money (which I don't) I don't see myself giving it up for some pussy.

Exactly what is GPS? Is there a SB market? Or is there just pussy you can afford and pussy that you cannot?

SubCmdr out

These type of discussions entertain me. I have my own demons and privacy, Sig Other reasons that I keep a low profile with the girls I talk to. I play on BP, the streets here are full of quality garden tools that will blow and swallow for $30. However, The sugar bowl is much more interesting to me. Finding that first time SB is a reward that trumps the random one night stands of yester year.

You guys certainly keep me coming back for more.

WS out.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr; 1558384]I don't log into this forum to read about love stories. I log in to read the latest fuck story or how the latest attempt to fuck went wrong.

What's wrong with the sexcapade stories?

Let's see. The Forum has taken an interesting turn of late.

I've read:

A post disparaging those who make 'notching' posts.

A post that says: I pay women to fuck me; I'm honest; I prefer not to lie; and I am married.

A post from a married SD's who states that posting pictures violates the SD / SB arrangement. Makes me say hmmm. As I wonder aloud what he thinks of his original arrangement. Yeah, the one that he made with his wife. LOL.

Seriously Gentlemen. Have we become so enamored with our sugar baby pursuits as to forget that what we are really doing is asking 'regular' women to become our personal ho's?

I understand that we all need to engage in a certain amount of rationalization to get though life. But do we have to do it here? In this Forum? Where we use the euphemism of 'Sugar Baby' and 'Sugar Daddy' to sweeten the bitter reality of what we are all doing?

I read some very practical reasons why photos are not posted in this Forum. But I've also read some outrageous ones that border on complete delusion. Like the posts proclaiming the higher nature of the Sugar Baby / Sugar Daddy relationship. Posts that show concern for the poor sugar baby that might be outed someday. (Ask Hernando if not posting a picture helped with that). Concern that we might loose access to some pussy that we are paying for. LOL I cannot even keep a straight face while I write this. And find myself rolling on the floor laughing when I read such things.

Am I missing something here? As they say in talk radio: 'I'll take my answer off the air'

SubCmdr out![/QUOTE]