"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=PartyTimeGuy;5901276]SBs are no different from all other human beings. When we experience anything for the first time, a new job, a new car, a new house, a new GF, a new SB, a new SD, it is fresh and different and we can revel in the initial novelty of it. After a while, the new smell wears off and we find it to be more tedious. Unless it continues to be immensely enjoyable, we start looking for something new again, or desire to have compensation for putting up with the same old same old.

SBs tire of SDs and want more dough to put up with the aggravation. SDs tire of SBs and want a new model. It is inevitable.
[/QUOTE]While I agree about the initial euphoria of something new, in the scenario I described I feel the SB is taking the low road, because as someone who most likely visited her while traveling, we aren't around each other enough to get tired of each other.

Basically if I contact her six months down the road, I'm taking a risk that she's gained weight or has otherwise let herself go (which is what I'm paying for) while at the same time honoring my previous allowance commitment. I'm not going to say "oh by the way I'm getting girls for $150 instead of $250 so I need to give you less this time". I remain true to whatever I gave her before and won't even suggest giving less.

If anything she is the one that benefits the most by seeing me once every few months because she knows who she's fucking ahead of time and doesn't have to worry about meeting some psycho who might be out to do her harm.

It's the old symptom of give an inch and watch them take a mile. They know that because SDs are typically older, responsible, and unlike guys their age they date typically make good on follow up and doing what we say we are going to do, they exercise their right to be flighty and unreliable, both with attendance and pay.

Not saying they are all like that, just speaking of the ones who become overpriced cum buckets.

Glad to have catalyzed this discussion. I don't hear anyone defending the idea that there really are loser guys giving girls ridiculous allowances and screwing the market for the rest of us.

[QUOTE=OliverNP;5901337]While I agree about the initial euphoria of something new, in the scenario I described I feel the SB is taking the low road, because as someone who most likely visited her while traveling, we aren't around each other enough to get tired of each other.[/QUOTE]Low road? I hear you. I had a sweet young thing who used to be happy with 100 a meet and now she wants 300 an hour! She had graduated from SB to high-priced escort. From a SD point of view this was a bad thing. But, from a SB point of view, she was moving up in the world.
[QUOTE] Basically if I contact her six months down the road, I'm taking a risk that she's gained weight or has otherwise let herself go (which is what I'm paying for) while at the same time honoring my previous allowance commitment. I'm not going to say "oh by the way I'm getting girls for $150 instead of $250 so I need to give you less this time". I remain true to whatever I gave her before and won't even suggest giving less.

If anything she is the one that benefits the most by seeing me once every few months because she knows who she's fucking ahead of time and doesn't have to worry about meeting some psycho who might be out to do her harm.[/QUOTE]That's definitely the SD point of view. The SB point of view is another matter. LOL.

[QUOTE]It's the old symptom of give an inch and watch them take a mile. They know that because SDs are typically older, responsible, and unlike guys their age they date typically make good on follow up and doing what we say we are going to do, they exercise their right to be flighty and unreliable, both with attendance and pay.

Not saying they are all like that, just speaking of the ones who become overpriced cum buckets.[/QUOTE]"Overpriced cum bucket" is funny but might be a little harsh for the transformation from sweet darling "amateurs" to pro-escorts. However, when a SB pulls any of the crap you mentioned, she is very soon in my rear view mirror. I have zero tolerance for a SB who thinks her time is more valuable than mine by showing up late or not promptly responding to communication. And, if she decides she deserves a raise, unless her performance has drastically improved (very highly unlikely), then it is time for a pink slip. I don't begrudge her thinking she is more valuable, but let someone else pay that tab.

Yet another dummy. That would be me - falls for it.

After years of being careful, one momentary lapse of reasoning and she got me. Dang.

Maybe someone here can learn from my mistake.

Signed.

Dumbass.

Details [URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?23844-Philly-Sugar&p=5901769&viewfull=1[/URL]#post5901769.

[QUOTE=PartyTimeGuy;5901477]Low road? I hear you. I had a sweet young thing who used to be happy with 100 a meet and now she wants 300 an hour! She had graduated from SB to high-priced escort. From a SD point of view this was a bad thing. But, from a SB point of view, she was moving up in the world.
[/QUOTE]I wonder how many escorts get into their 40's, 50's, 60's and beyond and feel like they are moving up as the demand for their services (and prices they can get) fall away. I've seen some pretty pathetic cases. I've seen aged-out sex workers get on YT and literally cry about customers who left after seeing them in person, or who did the deed but wouldn't hang around long enough to have a cup of coffee and small talk because they wanted to get the hell away. It doesn't really matter if a former SB turned escort THINKS she is moving up. She can't rewrite history. History is made up of facts and not opinions. Their market value rapidly depreciates over time as an escort (or as any woman who makes her appearance her primary life skill), and this is how they turn out if they try to make a career out of it, due to all the sacrifices they made along the way (such as time they could have spent with kids or family or just invested in a healthy monogamous relationship).

Meanwhile, I've seen plenty of SBs have the absolute time of their life with the lifestyle, then decide fun time is over and its time for a boyfriend and career, and live happily ever after. I don't think that's a bad plan for life at all.

If she goes too far it might "spoil" her to the point where she has trouble forming healthy relationships, but it's up to all of us to prioritize our own lives. I find pussy addictive enough that it could have pulled me away from everything, but luckily I always had (apparently) a balanced _id_against_the_ego that helped remind me what was most important and has allowed me to maintain a real relationship with someone I really love. And if I found out I was dying tomorrow, it would be that relationship I would most thankful for, not all the pussy. Even if between all the self-pity of dying I found myself grinning at some of the memories. . LOL.

[QUOTE=PartyTimeGuy;5901477]
"Overpriced cum bucket" is funny but might be a little harsh for the transformation from sweet darling "amateurs" to pro-escorts. However, when a SB pulls any of the crap you mentioned, she is very soon in my rear view mirror. I have zero tolerance for a SB who thinks her time is more valuable than mine by showing up late or not promptly responding to communication. And, if she decides she deserves a raise, unless her performance has drastically improved (very highly unlikely), then it is time for a pink slip. I don't begrudge her thinking she is more valuable, but let someone else pay that tab.[/QUOTE]If she's decided to be a pro escort, she's committed to a career of being exploited for her holes. I don't doubt the idea of being a cum bucket is offensive to some of them, and I certainly hope any SB's reading on don't misunderstand and think I'm using that term to describe most of the girls I've known (by a long shot). But a prostitute is in fact a cum receptacle by career choice. I'm not saying that's ALL she is as a human being -- I'm sure some sex workers are also great mothers and loving individuals. But they cannot say they aren't a spooge destination by profession and by choice. Some girls love exploitative talk aimed toward them as a turn on. I've had girls ask me to say shit and do shit to them that just doesn't come naturally to me at all. Lot of the feminist-oriented ones have told me they find it empowering to command to be treated like shit. Go figure.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;5901445]Glad to have catalyzed this discussion. I don't hear anyone defending the idea that there really are loser guys giving girls ridiculous allowances and screwing the market for the rest of us.[/QUOTE]I may not have expressed it well, but I tried to describe my experiences with girls' increasing allowance expectation. I have to believe that for the most part someone is paying them a lot more for them than I was for them to tell me that outright. This type of experience was what came to mind when I read your question about whether there was any evidence or not. I don't know if it qualifies as evidence, but to me it suggests there is some similar phenomenon that puts upward pressure on prices over time.

It's hard to say the guys overpaying were losers without knowing them, but I will say I have known guys who just have zero game, terrible luck with women, etc. And they are in my experience usually the ones who end up overpaying for pussy.

I do think some guys drive the market up, otherwise there wouldn't be so many stories of increasingly inflated expectations. But, what is the definition of a loser, how much allowance is considered ridiculous, and for what league of a girl, and whose definition of a league etc. Too many variables.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;5901445]Glad to have catalyzed this discussion. I don't hear anyone defending the idea that there really are loser guys giving girls ridiculous allowances and screwing the market for the rest of us.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=OliverNP;5902280]I may not have expressed it well, but I tried to describe my experiences with girls' increasing allowance expectation. I have to believe that for the most part someone is paying them a lot more for them than I was for them to tell me that outright. This type of experience was what came to mind when I read your question about whether there was any evidence or not. I don't know if it qualifies as evidence, but to me it suggests there is some similar phenomenon that puts upward pressure on prices over time.

It's hard to say the guys overpaying were losers without knowing them, but I will say I have known guys who just have zero game, terrible luck with women, etc. And they are in my experience usually the ones who end up overpaying for pussy.

I do think some guys drive the market up, otherwise there wouldn't be so many stories of increasingly inflated expectations. But, what is the definition of a loser, how much allowance is considered ridiculous, and for what league of a girl, and whose definition of a league etc. Too many variables.[/QUOTE]Hard to understand why it's even a discussion about how some guys can fuck up a market for everyone else. If I go to the Cosmo and have a drink at the Vesper bar, it's way overpriced for what I could get if I wanted to shoot down to Freemont. With all this game everyone keeps going on about, how could anyone paying more for something than you affect your success rate? Just "game" them and talk it down.

Of course, I guess I can practice chatting up the hotel management to see if they'll give me Freemont prices.
Do I mess it up for everyone buying an expensive car if I simply pay sticker because I don't feel like fucking around and it doesn't matter to me? What if I just pay the stated rate for a suite, when I could get it for half-off if I spent some time trying? Do I ruin it for those that want to get the best price possible?

The variable ends at the cash. You have enough, you don't have to give a single fuck what other people pay.

[QUOTE=OliverNP;5902280]I may not have expressed it well, but I tried to describe my experiences with girls' increasing allowance expectation. I have to believe that for the most part someone is paying them a lot more for them than I was for them to tell me that outright. This type of experience was what came to mind when I read your question about whether there was any evidence or not. I don't know if it qualifies as evidence, but to me it suggests there is some similar phenomenon that puts upward pressure on prices over time.

It's hard to say the guys overpaying were losers without knowing them, but I will say I have known guys who just have zero game, terrible luck with women, etc. And they are in my experience usually the ones who end up overpaying for pussy.

I do think some guys drive the market up, otherwise there wouldn't be so many stories of increasingly inflated expectations. But, what is the definition of a loser, how much allowance is considered ridiculous, and for what league of a girl, and whose definition of a league etc. Too many variables.[/QUOTE]Look, SA is in business to make $, they get that only from us. However, they need bait, SBs, and they don't want to actually pay for them. But what they do is promise them all the riches they can have. So, that is why there are all sorts of blogs, podcasts, etc. That tell girls that they can get all sorts of $ from SDs. SA also may promote the fiction that girls don't have to put out to get that. That lets them join the site without thinking they are also joining the worlds oldest profession. Whether they ever make the transition from a wannabe to an actual SB has a lot to do w / their vanilla dating experience and the sorts of males they get connected with from the site.

[QUOTE=RogerOver;5902302]Hard to understand why it's even a discussion about how some guys can fuck up a market for everyone else. If I go to the Cosmo and have a drink at the Vesper bar, it's way overpriced for what I could get if I wanted to shoot down to Freemont. With all this game everyone keeps going on about, how could anyone paying more for something than you affect your success rate? Just "game" them and talk it down.

Of course, I guess I can practice chatting up the hotel management to see if they'll give me Freemont prices.
Do I mess it up for everyone buying an expensive car if I simply pay sticker because I don't feel like fucking around and it doesn't matter to me? What if I just pay the stated rate for a suite, when I could get it for half-off if I spent some time trying? Do I ruin it for those that want to get the best price possible?

The variable ends at the cash. You have enough, you don't have to give a single fuck what other people pay.[/QUOTE]I've never walked in a food / beverage establishment that said to me "I know I charged you $5 for that drink yesterday, but you only tipped $1. Other customers are tipping $4 so I needed to increase the price of the drink to $10".

Yet that same pricing scenario, applied to SBs and pussy, has happened to me at least a few dozen times. This means I have to either pay her more, or consider her off the market. Finding new ones in a given city costs time and money so the inflation caused by others has impacted my bottom line more times than I can remember.

If others have never had that experience, then hats off to you and I hope you never need to deal with it. If there's one thing I've learned reading these forums is that my experiences in the sugar lifestyle are not exactly like others. I do tend to play the game in a way that I pay allowances that are seemingly lower than typical, and this may make my methods more susceptible to the inflation scenario I've described here.

Even still though, basic economic principles should explain all of this better than I can. For any type of service, sexual or otherwise, if the provider is able to earn 2x more the rate per hour from customer B than customer A is willing to provide, they have little reason to continue providing to customer A because it demonstrates to them that the 2x rate is available and thus their time is better spent with the 2x paying customers. This upward pressure on price is not limited to sexual services.

There is of course a human element involved in sexual interaction, and some SBs (the good ones, IMHO) would prefer the idea of getting a couple of hundred from a super fit SD that they enjoy being around instead of two or three times as much from an out of shape or annoying SD.... but many of them start out as the former and gravitate to the latter. Why? Because if the market is there for it, sometimes financial desperation leads them to it.

Imagine a fantasy scenario where sugaring was somehow regulated or all SDs everywhere agreed to never pay more than $200 per over-nighter per girl and actually followed through with that limit (almost hard to imagine, I know, but for the sake of this example). What do you think would happen? Would there still be GPS girls on the site asking for $1000+ per night? Of course not. So, why then do GPS girls exist? In some cases it's because someone has paid them that before and they know feel they "know their worth", in other cases it might be because their friend told them they were able to get that, etc. But the bottom line is that if someone, somewhere were not overpaying, there would be no GPS girls at all.

[QUOTE=OliverNP;5902810]Imagine a fantasy scenario where sugaring was somehow regulated or all SDs everywhere agreed to never pay more than $200 per over-nighter per girl and actually followed through with that limit (almost hard to imagine, I know, but for the sake of this example). What do you think would happen? Would there still be GPS girls on the site asking for $1000+ per night? Of course not. So, why then do GPS girls exist? In some cases it's because someone has paid them that before and they know feel they "know their worth", in other cases it might be because their friend told them they were able to get that, etc. But the bottom line is that if someone, somewhere were not overpaying, there would be no GPS girls at all.[/QUOTE]Buyers and sellers. That's what makes a market. Prices result from the interaction of both. To complain about the actions of strong buyers with plenty of cash (brains are another subject, LOL) is a waste of time unless you have control of market forces. The strong will always prevail over the weak, whether that is fair or not. Not true? Tell the strong lions to stop eating so many zebras and give the weaker lions a chance. See how well that works out.

[QUOTE=OliverNP;5902810]Imagine a fantasy scenario where sugaring was somehow regulated or all SDs everywhere agreed to never pay more than $200 per over-nighter per girl and actually followed through with that limit (almost hard to imagine, I know, but for the sake of this example). What do you think would happen? Would there still be GPS girls on the site asking for $1000+ per night? Of course not. So, why then do GPS girls exist? In some cases it's because someone has paid them that before and they know feel they "know their worth", in other cases it might be because their friend told them they were able to get that, etc. But the bottom line is that if someone, somewhere were not overpaying, there would be no GPS girls at all.[/QUOTE]Let's say you had the power to regulate the price of sugar. What would happen? Some sellers of sugar might refuse to accept the regulated price. A shortage would develop. Some buyers of sugar would be willing to pay more than the regulated price. Those buyers and sellers would find one another. It's called a black market. Those with spendable cash will find the products and services they desire, regardless of the legality of the transaction. The market for pussy is illegal; it's already a black market. LE can come down hard and slow it down, but you can't stop it and you can't regulate it. You most certainly can't complain about it and expect the black market forces to behave the way you want them to.

To requote a truism:

[QUOTE=RogerOver;5902302]The variable ends at the cash. You have enough, you don't have to give a single fuck what other people pay.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=OliverNP;5902810]Imagine a fantasy scenario where sugaring was somehow regulated or all SDs everywhere agreed to never pay more than $200 per over-nighter per girl and actually followed through with that limit (almost hard to imagine, I know, but for the sake of this example). What do you think would happen? Would there still be GPS girls on the site asking for $1000+ per night? Of course not. So, why then do GPS girls exist? In some cases it's because someone has paid them that before and they know feel they "know their worth", in other cases it might be because their friend told them they were able to get that, etc. But the bottom line is that if someone, somewhere were not overpaying, there would be no GPS girls at all.[/QUOTE]Evidence. What evidence is there that guys are (as often as girls claim) giving them a kilobuck a meet? There is plenty of evidence that social media and girl-to-girl transmission claims that they are getting that, contrary to fact. And if some guy is in Vegas and wants to blow his bankroll on a SB, that really doesn't have meaning to the overall market for SBs.

Wants 4 bills and won't budge. [URL]https://members.seeking.com/member/76ad7f3c-8824-4e42-9caf-0057b028a359[/URL].

I'll pass.

[QUOTE=PartyTimeGuy;5902927]Buyers and sellers. That's what makes a market. Prices result from the interaction of both. To complain about the actions of strong buyers with plenty of cash (brains are another subject, LOL) is a waste of time unless you have control of market forces. The strong will always prevail over the weak, whether that is fair or not. Not true? Tell the strong lions to stop eating so many zebras and give the weaker lions a chance. See how well that works out.[/QUOTE]I normally don't spend time complaining about it or debating it. Someone asked if anyone had seen evidence of this being real so I shared my own experiences. I have no shortage of cash, or girls interested in seeing me for minimal amounts. Prior to the pandemic (which by my choice, put a hold on my sugaring), I've gotten overnight freebies from girls I've seen others post on USASG complaining about same girl is quoting them $1. 5 k, so I already know where my game stands relative to others. In the lions analogy I'm exactly where I want to be and where many would like to be. I've seen some of the pics posted here -- one man's treasure is often a girl who couldn't pay me enough to fuck her.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;5903104]Evidence. What evidence is there that guys are (as often as girls claim) giving them a kilobuck a meet? There is plenty of evidence that social media and girl-to-girl transmission claims that they are getting that, contrary to fact. And if some guy is in Vegas and wants to blow his bankroll on a SB, that really doesn't have meaning to the overall market for SBs.[/QUOTE]Not trying to be argumentative but the evidence is that over past 2 years prices have increased 100-200%. If what your saying is true then you could counter offer lower amount and since they exaggerating they will take it. I find quite the opposite is true. They immediately stop conversation. So they are either starving or somebody is paying it.