General Reports

GB, I've had more than my fair share of experience with addicts. Once they make up their mind to use, no one. Not a husband, boyfriend, father, the police, society, -- no one is going to stop them from their choice. No amount of talking, bribing, begging, pleading, discussing 'what will happen when you do xxxxx' is going to deter them.

I'll be the odd man out and advise you that you have a business relationship with her, not different from a relationship you might have with the guy who cuts your lawn. You pay them to show up once a week, and fulfill your expectations for how you want your lawn cut. It's none of your business if the guy has a raging hangover while cutting your lawn, nor if he is suffering from depression. You pay this girl to perform a certain service for you, as long as it is up to your expectations, I see no reason why you should curtail your contract with her. At most, your conversation should be about the contract, I. E. "what you do with your money and time is none of my business, but you should know that I'm not interested in seeing you when you are high. " (or whatever).

Not seeing her might be contrary to your goal: It's readily apparent from your posts over a long period of time that you are a good guy. Many of the submissions I read from you I instinctively look for an 'upvote' button to click, then realize USG doesn't have one. If this girl that you care about is going to get $ from someone, it's better that it's you than taking her chances with the random public.

I don't see a correlation in providing anyone money and responsibility for what they choose to do with that money.

[QUOTE=Calvin0;3416423]GB, I've had more than my fair share of experience with addicts. Once they make up their mind to use, no one. Not a husband, boyfriend, father, the police, society, -- no one is going to stop them from their choice. No amount of talking, bribing, begging, pleading, discussing 'what will happen when you do xxxxx' is going to deter them.

I'll be the odd man out and advise you that you have a business relationship with her, not different from a relationship you might have with the guy who cuts your lawn. You pay them to show up once a week, and fulfill your expectations for how you want your lawn cut. It's none of your business if the guy has a raging hangover while cutting your lawn, nor if he is suffering from depression. You pay this girl to perform a certain service for you, as long as it is up to your expectations, I see no reason why you should curtail your contract with her. At most, your conversation should be about the contract, I. E. "what you do with your money and time is none of my business, but you should know that I'm not interested in seeing you when you are high. " (or whatever).

Not seeing her might be contrary to your goal: It's readily apparent from your posts over a long period of time that you are a good guy. Many of the submissions I read from you I instinctively look for an 'upvote' button to click, then realize USG doesn't have one. If this girl that you care about is going to get $ from someone, it's better that it's you than taking her chances with the random public.

I don't see a correlation in providing anyone money and responsibility for what they choose to do with that money.[/QUOTE]Yes I agree it's best to keep things strictly business. And thanks for the compliment. I am a good guy. But I sure do mess with some bad girls.

If you see a girl regularly over a period of time, then feelings can develop where you actually care about her and her well being. At least that's the mistake I have made many times. And as I've said, the fantasy is that some true feelings are there but the reality is that it's just about money.

I'd like to think that the money helps these girls. (helps them buy necessities). But really the help is not helping. It's hurting them by enabling them to buy more drugs.

GB40.

[QUOTE=Gigabyte40;3421198]Yes I agree it's best to keep things strictly business. And thanks for the compliment. I am a good guy. But I sure do mess with some bad girls.

If you see a girl regularly over a period of time, then feelings can develop where you actually care about her and her well being. At least that's the mistake I have made many times. And as I've said, the fantasy is that some true feelings are there but the reality is that it's just about money.

I'd like to think that the money helps these girls. (helps them buy necessities). But really the help is not helping. It's hurting them by enabling them to buy more drugs.

GB40.[/QUOTE]GB, I agree with the gist of what Calvin0 said. I like to think that I'm a good guy too but I've made many wrong choices in this hobby and paid for them! If she's not getting the money from you, she'll get it from somewhere else so technically you're not enabling her. After reading the previous responses, I think you should keep seeing her if you get that much pleasure from it. Just be real careful and guard your feelings man!

Safe mongering and sugaring!

I debated whether to include this story with my reply to GB's moral dilemma.

When I moved to Charlotte several years ago I met an amazingly attractive young provider named Julie, who had just started that week to post on CL. She had dreams of being a hairdresser, and had recently had the stars align to meet her with some unfortunate circumstances which caused her to look for a little cash on the side.

(If you are a monger for long enough, you see with wonder and appreciation when you come upon someone who is innocent and eager to please -- this is long before they develop that hard exterior that protects them from people who would take advantage of them, or worse those 'providers' whose personality becomes jaded and their interest tilts toward scamming their customer instead of performing as agreed.).

I digress, but the Julie Anne I first met was honest and truly enjoyed herself, and even more so, she *thrived* off of being wanted by men. Great body, no clock watching, permissive, GFE, and a bargain of a rate. Everything a monger hopes to find. As those weeks turned into months and she saw more and more clients, she changed. The thrill of going from no money to having money to burn, and of course there were clients who started taking advantage of her. Her personality needed to change to protect herself. That money turned toxic for her at some point and went toward drugs. The habit along with the tough exterior she developed led to dramatically fewer clients. She'd go days without food, and text sometimes to ask me to bring her something to eat. Over the years things got rough, she'd often run out of the bare necessities like: razors, toilet paper, toothpaste,. I didn't see her very often, but when I was in her neighborhood, I'd drop off a little care package. I have not seen her in more than a year now, but I have never stopped wishing that she would have succeeded in reaching what is such a modest dream.

We can only truly be responsible for our own choices. I'm in no position to judge Julie's, or anyone's else's choices. I don't believe providing money for a service makes me an enabler. After all, how would I feel if my paycheck added an "*not to be used to buy alcohol nor tobacco" before the dollar sign?

[QUOTE=Calvin0;3421871]I debated whether to include this story with my reply to GB's moral dilemma.

When I moved to Charlotte several years ago I met an amazingly attractive young provider named Julie, who had just started that week to post on CL. She had dreams of being a hairdresser, and had recently had the stars align to meet her with some unfortunate circumstances which caused her to look for a little cash on the side.

(If you are a monger for long enough, you see with wonder and appreciation when you come upon someone who is innocent and eager to please -- this is long before they develop that hard exterior that protects them from people who would take advantage of them, or worse those 'providers' whose personality becomes jaded and their interest tilts toward scamming their customer instead of performing as agreed.).

I digress, but the Julie Anne I first met was honest and truly enjoyed herself, and even more so, she *thrived* off of being wanted by men. Great body, no clock watching, permissive, GFE, and a bargain of a rate. Everything a monger hopes to find. As those weeks turned into months and she saw more and more clients, she changed. The thrill of going from no money to having money to burn, and of course there were clients who started taking advantage of her. Her personality needed to change to protect herself. That money turned toxic for her at some point and went toward drugs. The habit along with the tough exterior she developed led to dramatically fewer clients. She'd go days without food, and text sometimes to ask me to bring her something to eat. Over the years things got rough, she'd often run out of the bare necessities like: razors, toilet paper, toothpaste,. I didn't see her very often, but when I was in her neighborhood, I'd drop off a little care package. I have not seen her in more than a year now, but I have never stopped wishing that she would have succeeded in reaching what is such a modest dream.

We can only truly be responsible for our own choices. I'm in no position to judge Julie's, or anyone's else's choices. I don't believe providing money for a service makes me an enabler. After all, how would I feel if my paycheck added an "*not to be used to buy alcohol nor tobacco" before the dollar sign?[/QUOTE]That's rough! I was close to only one provider in my years of hobbying and I can tell you it doesn't always end that way. If a provider keeps her eyes on the ball, usually she can get out before it is too late. My ATF was great at giving me the GFE, but we both knew she had bigger plans than working on her back. She got out and let her usuals know when she did. She managed it because a) No BF to steal her money, b) no pimp, c) had a budget and didn't blow it on drugs or "friends", and d) stayed focused with a set number of years she wanted out.

For me, I do miss her services, but at the end of the day I know this is best for all who are involved. Don't get attachef, don't get lazy, and definitely don't share anything you wouldn't with a stranger. It doesn't matter how long you hit them up, they all have an exit one way or another.

All you AA mongers out there, what do you guys do to get around this often stated practice of providers not seeing AA guys? I understand the safety of not seeing thuggish fellows, but what's a well put together professional man of color to do? What about the mixed guys out there, what's your approach?

[QUOTE=DjScribbles17;3441338]All you AA mongers out there, what do you guys do to get around this often stated practice of providers not seeing AA guys? I understand the safety of not seeing thuggish fellows, but what's a well put together professional man of color to do? What about the mixed guys out there, what's your approach?[/QUOTE]Just like everything in life for a person of color, you have to be better. I have gotten around it several times by texting a dissertation on how I'm not like the thugs and then paid more when I really wanted a white provider I thought was worth it. Most white providers who are worth it don't have that distinction I have found. So now if I see it, I just move on. There's always going to be someone else just like her. If you really want it, try asking if it's a racial thing, which you probably can't get around, or if it's a safety thing which you may be able to work around.

Its the nature of the beast of being black. The one thing that I do have in this hobby is a few friends that have vouched for me with providers that stated they won't see AA. That has help with establishing me with a few of the really beautiful ones. They would mention the provider about me and tell them my name or some code word. Once I make that call and show up I give the name or code word that they provided and everything is cool. I treat all the ladies with respect and kindness. Not all of them will return the favor in the form of great service (They never get a return visit), but the one that do I see often when the funds are available. I don't judge them on their line of work. That is their business. I just want really good service. I have paid a few time a little more than I wanted to for those referrals, but most of the time I get the regular service. I will say that some of the referrals have been great. They go the extra mile without asking. The ones that don't see AA I just by pass them and move on. The thing that tickles me the most is when the AA ladies won't see me. I'm like. "I'm not going to rob you or be rough with you. " Those are the ones that kinda bother me. But I understand. But here is something funny. I have had a couple of those referrals tell me that the white guys can be just as bad as the black guys, but for some reason they just feel safer with the white guy. But I guess we all have our preference. Hell I still want me an Asian or Latina as my ATF. But can't get them to let me in yet.

Stay safe out there.

[QUOTE=DjScribbles17;3441338]All you AA mongers out there, what do you guys do to get around this often stated practice of providers not seeing AA guys? I understand the safety of not seeing thuggish fellows, but what's a well put together professional man of color to do? What about the mixed guys out there, what's your approach?[/QUOTE]

You are not like all AA men I think the shade of you skin was put in the wrong body. In my book and I'll go to bat for you anytime you need a brother.

[QUOTE=DollarBill50;3476854]Its the nature of the beast of being black. The one thing that I do have in this hobby is a few friends that have vouched for me with providers that stated they won't see AA. That has help with establishing me with a few of the really beautiful ones. They would mention the provider about me and tell them my name or some code word. Once I make that call and show up I give the name or code word that they provided and everything is cool. I treat all the ladies with respect and kindness. Not all of them will return the favor in the form of great service (They never get a return visit), but the one that do I see often when the funds are available. I don't judge them on their line of work. That is their business. I just want really good service. I have paid a few time a little more than I wanted to for those referrals, but most of the time I get the regular service. I will say that some of the referrals have been great. They go the extra mile without asking. The ones that don't see AA I just by pass them and move on. The thing that tickles me the most is when the AA ladies won't see me. I'm like. "I'm not going to rob you or be rough with you. " Those are the ones that kinda bother me. But I understand. But here is something funny. I have had a couple of those referrals tell me that the white guys can be just as bad as the black guys, but for some reason they just feel safer with the white guy. But I guess we all have our preference. Hell I still want me an Asian or Latina as my ATF. But can't get them to let me in yet.

Stay safe out there.[/QUOTE]

BadTtBone!! You are the man. I would have fallen in love with the one you help me with if I could. She is all that and then some. And I still want her. OMG!

Now I'm thinking about her. I will see her when I get back in town. Then propose to her and see what happens.

[QUOTE=BadTtBone;3486420]You are not like all AA men I think the shade of you skin was put in the wrong body. In my book and I'll go to bat for you anytime you need a brother.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DjScribbles17;3441338]All you AA mongers out there, what do you guys do to get around this often stated practice of providers not seeing AA guys? I understand the safety of not seeing thuggish fellows, but what's a well put together professional man of color to do? What about the mixed guys out there, what's your approach?[/QUOTE]This is what I do. I text them and say the following: "Hello, I see that you don't see AA. Which I am, I'm 42, professional, not a thug, not a gangster. Not a pimp, not drug user. What are my chances of seeing you?" 9 out of 10 reply willing to see me. I think most post no AA to avoid the thugs, gangstas and pimps. As my girlfriend would say, who's white, " I'm whiter than she is".

[blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]

[b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]This report was edited or deleted in accordance with the Forum's policy prohibiting any discussion regarding [u]racial issues[/u]. This action is in no way a reflection of the merits of the author's comments.

I am aware that the vast majority of references to racial issues are legitimate attempts to advise other fellow members about local racial issues and prejudices. However, past discussions in the Forum has repeatedly demonstrated that the subject simply cannot be discussed intelligently, in any form or for any reason, without being misinterpreted and without starting flame wars.

Please do not engage in discussions about race in the Forum. Please read the Forum's Posting Guidelines for further information.

[i]Thanks![/i][/blue]

Be careful out there folks. I believe this happened in the parking lot where Independence Spa is. One article said "one business was open at the time of the shooting and police have spoken with them". Guessing that may have been the spa.

[QUOTE=DjScribbles17;3441338]All you AA mongers out there, what do you guys do to get around this often stated practice of providers not seeing AA guys? I understand the safety of not seeing thuggish fellows, but what's a well put together professional man of color to do? What about the mixed guys out there, what's your approach?[/QUOTE]I contact them anyways. I'm polite, pay full price, show them the envelope up front, and don't get offended when they step away to count the money. I make sure the currency is always Jacksons, as Benjamins raise counterfeit suspicions. I have only been turned away twice at the door, and I've seen lots of ladies who claim no AA.

What really makes the difference is first contact. When I text, I use full sentences; absolutely NO abbreviations. It helps that I have no accent whatsoever on the phone, but if they ask race, I'm honest. Around half of them still go through with the appointment.

Before all of this you need to do some things other mongers don't have to. Establish backups who don't make these restrictions, as they will be backups if / when you're turned away. Contact providers well ahead of time, and make sure they're on the same side of town that you're going to be on at the time. You don't want to waste too much gas or time getting to someone who may turn you away. I avoid AA providers who make AA restrictions. My three worst experiences have been with those types of providers. They have a plan, I put a wrench in it, and they were pissed.

PieMonger.

Those are some pretty good suggestion. I will have to keep those in mind when I am on the prowl for those pretty ladies (Non-black) that state they won't see black men. I too get tire of getting lumped in with those that want to treat them like shit or want something for cheap. So if none of my hobbiy friends haven't seen one that they can refer me to I will try your method. As for that AA girls that won't see AA men. I'm with you on that. I just don't call them at all.

[QUOTE=PieMonger;3510290]I contact them anyways. I'm polite, pay full price, show them the envelope up front, and don't get offended when they step away to count the money. I make sure the currency is always Jacksons, as Benjamins raise counterfeit suspicions. I have only been turned away twice at the door, and I've seen lots of ladies who claim no AA.

What really makes the difference is first contact. When I text, I use full sentences; absolutely NO abbreviations. It helps that I have no accent whatsoever on the phone, but if they ask race, I'm honest. Around half of them still go through with the appointment.

Before all of this you need to do some things other mongers don't have to. Establish backups who don't make these restrictions, as they will be backups if / when you're turned away. Contact providers well ahead of time, and make sure they're on the same side of town that you're going to be on at the time. You don't want to waste too much gas or time getting to someone who may turn you away. I avoid AA providers who make AA restrictions. My three worst experiences have been with those types of providers. They have a plan, I put a wrench in it, and they were pissed.[/QUOTE]