"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=Zomby;1555316]At the risk eliciting "eff off, newb" comments[/QUOTE]Z,

We were all newbies once, and I would argue that we all can continue to learn. Your comment about everyone bragging, to a degree, is well taken. What is my post about Polo except unabashed crowing? No one cannot benefit from a re-focusing, reality check from time to time.

As for your 3 year ride with your ATF SB, it absolutely ranks up there at the top of the list. Congrats to you, my brother! I sincerely hope you can keep it going, but know that if it ends, we are here to help you get your shit back together.

Keep up the good work,

Scott

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;1555283]Don't talk about sex before a m&g. We are all adults. And its going to happen anyway if its meant to be. I like to focus on something a little softer to start. A shared interest of some sort. Like kissing.[/QUOTE]HG,

That's great advice but how do you execute it in daily operations? I get asked all of the time,"What do I have to do for the $?" I tell them they don't have to do anything. But, I'm looking for adult companionship. They always want to pin me down on the specifics. They initiate the sexual conversation. And then after we get into it, I get the"Well I need X # of $ in order to do that."

Always looking to improve my tactics.

SubCmdr out

[QUOTE=SubCmdr; 1555524]HG,

That's great advice but how do you execute it in daily operations? I get asked all of the time,"What do I have to do for the $?" I tell them they don't have to do anything. But, I'm looking for adult companionship. They always want to pin me down on the specifics. They initiate the sexual conversation. And then after we get into it, I get the"Well I need X # of $ in order to do that."

Always looking to improve my tactics.

SubCmdr out[/QUOTE]I always tell the girls I will be more than happy with a HJ on the first date. How many hot girls can go on a date and get all worked up only to give the guy a HJ in the end? Not many. So really what ends up happening is they beg to give you some oral or just go all the way. About 75% of the time I get it all on the first date. And if it takes a second date. I don't care. I have had some awesome sex that didn't involve intercourse. And I think there is sometimes too much pressure for everyone on a first date to perform. Take away the pressure. You know like in sales. And what happens. Everyone relaxes and has a good time. The girls see this as respectful and usually end up showing their gratitude. Also. They see this as very mature. And thats what they all want. Not the younger guy I got to have it now or I. Ll die attitude.

Also if you have a lighter date in the daytime it can be a good warm up before seeing a regular. And then really giving it to her good. And if the light date gets heavy. Well in my case I may or may not have to cancel as I am basically a once a day guy most of the time. IMHO the supply (me) is way less than the demand (them). So why stress out?

Wow, there's a lot going on here the last day or so. Let me see what I can cover, and forgive me if I miss something. At the end, I'll add an anecdote of my own, along with my question of the day.

Talking about sex before a M&G: Maybe I've been lucky, but I've never had to specify exactly what I want at future meetings. And maybe it's the hopeless romantic in me (ha!), but I don't like the idea of it. After a few months in the game, I can usually tell if the girl is in tune with the nature of the SB world by the end of the first M&G. Sometimes they make it obvious; I met a girl this week who "isn't into providing sexual favors for money." Good for you, honey, but I'm not in the habit of giving an allowance for "time and companionship." I guess what I'm saying is that, in my experience, the ones who are willing to explicitly talk about sex without ever meeting you are more likely to be pros, UTR pros, or semi-pros. Just saying.

Gifts: Scott, I would wait and see what she gives you. Then, if you are so inclined, you have the opportunity to give considerable thought to a gift in return.

Dog Rice: You are new and excited, my friend. Take a moment to step back and think or even sleep on it. If it is meant to be, she'll still be wanting to meet you tomorrow. Talking about exchanging STD tests this early in your "relationship" indicates to me that she's too much business, not enough GFE. But maybe that's what you want. Given your statement about transitioning from the escort world, maybe that's not a bad thing. But tread carefully.

My world: I had a M&G with a 39yo (they're never 40 or 41, always 39, it seems) Asian baby tonight. Divorced, three kids, with more degrees (and probably more money) than I. She is very smart, very cute, and funny. Given her financial security, I think she's mainly looking for a boy toy to hang out with. Dinner was nice, and we wandered around the mall afterward. She wanted to go to Victoria's Secret to browse, which was promising, but they were closing as we walked by. So I walked her to my car so I could drive her to hers. We sat there and made out for a bit, and she asked me to go home with her. "Can't you spend the night with me?" isn't something I'm accustomed to hearing two hours after meeting someone.

"No," I said. "I have to be home soon."

"Just spend a couple hours with me."

It was tough, really tough, to say no. I had not arranged an extended work release with the warden, and my curfew was quickly approaching.

"Why can't you? Do you have a wife at home?"

She apparently had not carefully read my SA profile, which clearly says "married, but looking." She was visibly disappointed, and it was suddenly very chilly in the car. I see no point in lying to babies about this, and it would be hard to keep up the charade anyway. She politely thanked me for dinner and was on her way.

I've been texting her since we left, trying to gauge whether she wants to meet again. As she admits, she "really likes me." But I can tell she is reluctant to be involved with a married man. She wants to know she will be the only one I'm seeing on the side, as she is very "safe." The conversation is leading me to believe I still have a chance, but who knows? I really want to see her again, because, to paraphrase Wedding Crashers, she would have been my first Asian!

What should I do in the future to avoid this type of misunderstanding? Obviously, close the deal! But beside that, I'm thinking I need to ensure the pot is aware I'm married and is ok with that. How do you guys handle this? Because it's never been a problem for me before.

Great advices, HG and Cmdr.

Seems that some gals are pushing for amount (e. G, the 2nd sentence over our first phone call is the amount she got in her previous arrangement.) and some gals don't even ask before M&G.

What is your approach? Don't talk about sugar before M&G?

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy; 1555570]I always tell the girls I will be more than happy with a HJ on the first date. How many hot girls can go on a date and get all worked up only to give the guy a HJ in the end? Not many. So really what ends up happening is they beg to give you some oral or just go all the way. About 75% of the time I get it all on the first date. And if it takes a second date. I don't care. I have had some awesome sex that didn't involve intercourse. And I think there is sometimes too much pressure for everyone on a first date to perform. Take away the pressure. You know like in sales. And what happens. Everyone relaxes and has a good time. The girls see this as respectful and usually end up showing their gratitude. Also. They see this as very mature. And thats what they all want. Not the younger guy I got to have it now or I. Ll die attitude.

Also if you have a lighter date in the daytime it can be a good warm up before seeing a regular. And then really giving it to her good. And if the light date gets heavy. Well in my case I may or may not have to cancel as I am basically a once a day guy most of the time. IMHO the supply (me) is way less than the demand (them). So why stress out?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JoesParty; 1555576]Wow, there's a lot going on here the last day or so. Let me see what I can cover, and forgive me if I miss something. At the end, I'll add an anecdote of my own, along with my question of the day.

What should I do in the future to avoid this type of misunderstanding? Obviously, close the deal! But beside that, I'm thinking I need to ensure the pot is aware I'm married and is ok with that. How do you guys handle this? Because it's never been a problem for me before.[/QUOTE]Honesty is the best policy. Really.

I am single but have about 6 regulars. And they all know about each other. Competition keeps them on their toes. I hate that phrase "spoiled rotten". Because if you do that its just like spoiled fruit. You don't want it anymore. Remember you are giving them the BFE. Make them work for it.

The last girl I broke up with suddenly started deep throating when she saw the handwriting on the wall. Make up sex can be the best sex ever. It's good to break up with them once in a while or ignore them. They have to know they are not the only game in town. The # of babes is way way more than the # of daddies. Never forget that.

[QUOTE=JoesParty;1555576]Talking about sex before a M&G: Maybe I've been lucky, but I've never had to specify exactly what I want at future meetings. And maybe it's the hopeless romantic in me (ha!), but I don't like the idea of it. After a few months in the game, I can usually tell if the girl is in tune with the nature of the SB world by the end of the first M&G. Sometimes they make it obvious; I met a girl this week who "isn't into providing sexual favors for money." Good for you, honey, but I'm not in the habit of giving an allowance for "time and companionship." I guess what I'm saying is that, in my experience, the ones who are willing to explicitly talk about sex without ever meeting you are more likely to be pros, UTR pros, or semi-pros. Just saying[/QUOTE]Joe,

Thank you for the perspective. Interestingly enough, I don't ever wind up meeting with the "explicit sex talkers" cause I scare them off with my requests for kinky sex or the fact that I'm not giving out much sugar. I never thought about that fact that I'm not really talking to "true SB's" (that is if there is such a thing) because I come from the lifestyle world. In the lifestyle world it's not unusual to discuss details of the encounter you are looking for before meeting. (I. E. Husband talking about his wife: "I'll be watching from the closet. She likes her hair pulled, ass slapping and to be verbally degraded. Condoms for penetration. But no ass fucking, she saves that for me.") My best experiences have been with SB's when our expectations have been stated very generally.

As for the married part, you are going to run into this anytime you treat your SB like a girlfriend. Honesty is the best policy. But we are human beings. Not everyone can fake it. Sometimes the experience is real! My current ATF knew I was married. But she is too. But separated and getting a divorce. (Actually I will probably end up in the same place). She told me early on that it was the first time she was involved with married man. Last night as I was walking her to her to her car in the mall parking lot while holding hands she says: "I got on the web site because I was ready for something different. I had no idea I would start a new relationship with someone I met there." Life happens!

Your pot baby is making the adjustment. Give her time. She will either get comfortable with the idea or she will not. Stay with it. There is nothing but upside for you!

SubCmdr out.

P. S. You lucky dog! I love Asian women. Never had one myself. I got a bad case of "pussy envy" just reading your story.

Scotty, the only gift you need to give her is your dick. Whan a girl wants to gift you enjoy the sentiment and don't feel like a reciprocation is necessary. It sounds like she will bring a little sex toy or something mutually enjoyable I would think.

I'm week 2 into SDFM cruising and have sent 20 ems and have only 2 responses so far. One is a 19 yr old college girl who is interested in chatting and the other is a 20 yr old. So wish me luck

As to the ongoing drama of my HCB, I am in the same boat as you Scotty. She has dropped me like a hot potato thanks to the W's slash and burn maneuver. She salted the earth and I don't think we will recover, but I'm still trying until the fat lady sings.

Listen to your SB's gentlemen. They will tell you what is important to them. Then tie your cash to these important items. Anything that you provide that they are not getting else where is some thing that is going to be important to them and build the most valuable of intangibles 'goodwill'. Take my ATF for example. She initially meets me with peep toe shoes on. I have a mild foot / leg fetish so that works for me. During the action I'm taking her shoes off and she is self conscious about feet tell me she has not gotten her nails done and she prefers to have color on them. I'm moving up looking for the party favors at this point, but I make a mental note. The next morning I ask how much does it cost to get your nails done. She says: 'I don't know. ' That is a little white lie but I'll go with it. Here is $40 is that going to be enough? She give me a coy smile and nod. She then asks me what colors do I like. We talk about many different colors and finally tell her to pick something and surprise me. And I tell her to make sure to send me a picture.

By our next date I have not received a picture. What is the first thing she shows off when we see each other? That's right her nails. And she just had them done the afternoon of our date (so she says). The point of this story is just like all women in our lives it is the little things that count. A little 'goodwill' will get you deeper and longer in the pussy than a lot of money!

Now not everyone can or wants to roll like the Cmdr rolls. And it's all good. But if this is fly fishing please consider this one of my knot tying techniques that has worked for me.

SubCmdr out

[QUOTE=JoesParty;1555576]What should I do in the future to avoid this type of misunderstanding? Obviously, close the deal! But beside that, I'm thinking I need to ensure the pot is aware I'm married and is ok with that. How do you guys handle this? Because it's never been a problem for me before.[/QUOTE]Timely post. I actually planned to talk about this very subject.

On my SA profile I clearly state I'm married and within the actual text of the profile I mention it again and that I'm looking for a "discreet" relationship. This definitely cuts down on the responses I receive. Some SBs have a problem with it morally or they're worried about the possible drama, which might come their way. Also I've noticed Asian SBs tend to be more reluctant to see married men than most in my experience.

Even still I generally believe in full disclosure when it comes to this. I need the SB on day one to understand the need for discretion. By mentioning these things in my profile, I generally get responses from SBs who are already prepared for a "Behind Closed Doors" arrangement. Also they would figure it out that I'm married/attached pretty soon when I never answer their voice calls, never invite them to my place, or by my very restrictive schedule. And believe it or not I don't like lying, so I try to keep it to a minimum. I think an arrangement is less stressful when both parties know exactly what they're dealing with.

That said, I am running an experiment on SD4Me. I'm saying I'm divorced on my profile to hopefully improve the initial response rate and to avoid the marriage predators. Then once I begin discussions, I mention I'm in the "process" of getting divorced so things aren't finalized and I still need to be somewhat discreet.

The downside to disclosing you're married is that it opens you up to blackmail by psychos. After my recent psycho experience earlier this month, I'm trying to figure out if there is a different approach to handling this. A way to explain the need for discretion while also avoiding SBs thinking they have the "I'm going to tell your wife!" card in their back pocket.

Tricky stuff.

John,

I can share some of my experience here. Before entering the Sugar Bowl this week and before escort world (previous and still overlapping w / my Sugar experience) , I have been hunting down freebies in various dating sites mainly during international travel. Occasionally, got some in US. Took a lot of time since is dating, but the return could be very high (True GFE and a lot of passion). Some of the oversea ones are truly freebies. (they setup hotel, trip, . Etc). .

Of course, the downside is the stress (such as: why can't we go to your home? Let's stay overnight somewhere? Asking me to go to fu. K at midnight? Calling me like crazy). I got some crazy gal calling me from oversea every 2 hours for several days. The stress was so high that I decided to get out of that world. Lying sucks. (learned my lesson). Now, I stick w / honesty.

After reading your story about some psycho, I will try to disclose as tiny info to SB (when I get one) as possible.

[QUOTE=John G Smith; 1556242]Timely post. I actually planned to talk about this very subject.

On my SA profile I clearly state I'm married and within the actual text of the profile I mention it again and that I'm looking for a "discreet" relationship. This definitely cuts down on the responses I receive. Some SBs have a problem with it morally or they're worried about the possible drama, which might come their way. Also I've noticed Asian SBs tend to be more reluctant to see married men than most in my experience.

Even still I generally believe in full disclosure when it comes to this. I need the SB on day one to understand the need for discretion. By mentioning these things in my profile, I generally get responses from SBs who are already prepared for a "Behind Closed Doors" arrangement. Also they would figure it out that I'm married / attached pretty soon when I never answer their voice calls, never invite them to my place, or by my very restrictive schedule. And believe it or not I don't like lying, so I try to keep it to a minimum. I think an arrangement is less stressful when both parties know exactly what they're dealing with.

That said, I am running an experiment on SD4Me. I'm saying I'm divorced on my profile to hopefully improve the initial response rate and to avoid the marriage predators. Then once I begin discussions, I mention I'm in the "process" of getting divorced so things aren't finalized and I still need to be somewhat discreet.

The downside to disclosing you're married is that it opens you up to blackmail by psychos. After my recent psycho experience earlier this month, I'm trying to figure out if there is a different approach to handling this. A way to explain the need for discretion while also avoiding SBs thinking they have the "I'm going to tell your wife!" card in their back pocket.

Tricky stuff.[/QUOTE]

I'm just venting. I've set up initial M&Gs with two pots from the same town about an hour away for each of the past two weeks. The first was a no-show. The second has been communicating with me today, the day of our meeting, but only on a sporadic basis. We agreed to meet closer to me, so I'll show up at the appointed time, but I honestly have no idea if #2 will show either.

How hard is it, really, to respond in a timely manner to simple questions? To confirm our meeting place?

Perhaps I ask too much, but I hope not. If this one doesn't show, I'm writing off the entire town.

Vent over. We now return to our regularly-scheduled programming.

Edit to add: She just canceled. At least she did it before we were to meet, but at this point, I think it's best to focus my time on the more responsive babies.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr; 1556121]Now not everyone can or wants to roll like the Cmdr rolls. And it's all good. But if this is fly fishing please consider this one of my knot tying techniques that has worked for me.

SubCmdr out[/QUOTE]Commander,

I Laughed Out Loud when I read this! Right on, my brother, and I will be sure to add it to my tackle box! Isn't this a great world we have chosen? Plus, I kinda love coral pink toenails myself.

Permission to leave the bridge,

Scott

I got the same treatment today. Setup M&Gs w / 2 pots today. Confirming w / them (via text) several hours ago, and man just not responding. At the end, I texted them that I assume the meeting is cancelled unless I got a confirmation back. (of course, in a nicer wording). Both got cancelled. Is wearing me out a bit. I am slowing down. .

[QUOTE=JoesParty; 1556312]I'm just venting. I've set up initial M&Gs with two pots from the same town about an hour away for each of the past two weeks. The first was a no-show. The second has been communicating with me today, the day of our meeting, but only on a sporadic basis. We agreed to meet closer to me, so I'll show up at the appointed time, but I honestly have no idea if #2 will show either.

How hard is it, really, to respond in a timely manner to simple questions? To confirm our meeting place?

Perhaps I ask too much, but I hope not. If this one doesn't show, I'm writing off the entire town.

Vent over. We now return to our regularly-scheduled programming.

Edit to add: She just canceled. At least she did it before we were to meet, but at this point, I think it's best to focus my time on the more responsive babies.[/QUOTE]