2005 Archived General Reports

[QUOTE=Speck]And of course they never ever want their casino to accidentally offend the gf or wife of one of its high rollers or whales by insinuated that she might be a working girl.[/QUOTE]Yes, and that's a distinction that can get blurry in Las Vegas. I personally do know of a case where both things were simultaneously true. A bartender made a crude indiscrete wisecrack to a provocatively dressed slinky dark skinned lady, a friendly aquaintance of mine who I got to know reasonably well, which included the suggestion she might make herself available for rent on her back or her knees. And in fact I know she was doing exactly that a few years earlier when she met the man who married her, who is also a nationally prominent and wealthy plaintiff's attorney who loves to blow truckloads of money in the casinos whenever he can get to town. He put his arm around his young wife, handed that bartender a hundred dollar bill, and informed him that he'd better enjoy it, becuase it would be the last one he ever saw in his life. I believe the errant bartender was banned from ever setting foot on any of that firm's many properties, incidental to becoming very thoroughly unemployed.

Security kicking it with cw's is not out of the ordinary. These guys can be their best friend or worse enemy, depending on, what's in it for them.

I don't think security is part of any setup. You should be careful of doing it in a car on casino property. They have guys on bikes and their cameras pick up things even faster. Late in the morning, its slow, so they have more things to look for.

I did it twice in a dark neighborhood and still felt uncomfortable. You don't know who will roll up on you or walk by.

CW's will tell you to go to your car if you don't have a room but you have to realize most of them have a record so they don't care if you get caught. Sex in public in Nevada is a FELONY.

[QUOTE=Robert387]I've found consistent success ($100 cbj) roaming the Imperial Palace-Harrahs-Casino Royale stretch in the 4:00-6:00 a.m. range...
In any event, here's a couple of questions for the more experienced Wastrel-like veterans: What do you make of the socializing with security personnel? I know that most casinos tolerate working girls, but this was way over the line. Was "something up" here? 2) What about the car date in a parking structure -- have you done it, safe environment, etc.?[/QUOTE]

Robert,
Casino parking structures are an excellent and safe option as long as you take the obvious precautions (e.g. parking between other vehicles, not next to a camera, etc.). If somebody spots you, hey this is Vegas. For all they know you're just having a little fun w/ your SO. Probably heading into the casino afterward to lose your money. Good customer, don't bother him.

As far as the girl talking, joking w/ Security, that wouldn't concern me. First, if you're thinking that the casino might have been running some kind of sting I'd say that's extremely unlikely. It's also highly unlikely that she is LE. Not all casino security treats hookers as undesirable. These guys are human, she's likely someone they see regularly and kid around with. No big deal.

As for paying $100 for CBJs from girls you rate as 6-7's, that's the more unfortunate comment in your post :-). For that caliber of talent, I'd rather go with a SW for less than half that rate.

[QUOTE=Mike 80]Robert,
Casino parking structures are an excellent and safe option as long as you take the obvious precautions (e.g. parking between other vehicles, not next to a camera, etc.). If somebody spots you, hey this is Vegas. For all they know you're just having a little fun w/ your SO. Probably heading into the casino afterward to lose your money. Good customer, don't bother him.

As far as the girl talking, joking w/ Security, that wouldn't concern me. First, if you're thinking that the casino might have been running some kind of sting I'd say that's extremely unlikely. It's also highly unlikely that she is LE. Not all casino security treats hookers as undesirable. These guys are human, she's likely someone they see regularly and kid around with. No big deal.

As for paying $100 for CBJs from girls you rate as 6-7's, that's the more unfortunate comment in your post :-). For that caliber of talent, I'd rather go with a SW for less than half that rate.[/QUOTE]


I agree with almost all of your analysis Mike. I'd even go as far and give the girl props for cultivating a good relationship with security. I've only had one hassle in a parking garage, parking on the roof of a local mall, the only car up there. Dumbass move. Security drove up, behind us [getting an eyeful] then back around in front of us which got our attention. Now I respectfully disagree with your .100cbj's. Sounds like that's a deal that the writer is comfortable with. For many, not having to leave the Strip and dealing with more rugged areas is worth some cash. I say if he's fine with it, no harm no foul. I, on the other hand, will be joining you on the street team. ;)

"Now I respectfully disagree with your .100cbj's. Sounds like that's a deal that the writer is comfortable with. For many, not having to leave the Strip and dealing with more rugged areas is worth some cash. I say if he's fine with it, no harm no foul. I, on the other hand, will be joining you on the street team."

Thanks Desert Dude and Mike for your insights. Mike's comment about not having to leave the Strip, etc., is right on target. However, you've now got me thinking, and it's something I've often wondered about. If you pick up a SW, for example, on Boulder Hwy., where do you drive off to in most cases? It would seem that a parking structure at Boulder Station, Arizona Charlies, or Sam's Town would be a good option. Agree? (If it's half the price of those on the Strip, maybe I should be joining "the street team"!)

Getting it on, in any casino parking garage, is risky business. I used to work at a local casino as security and I lived for that moment, creeping up on obvious cars.

First, don't believe the thing about "parking near cameras" what a laugh, I work (upstairs) and we have "zoom" capabilities. You don't know where we are looking at you from, I have looked at couples from the casino roof unto the garage because it gave me a better angle.

There are obvious signs, like Desert Dude said, parking on a roof?, and then there is no one around? Double no-no. Once that car hits the roof, security is already suspect of it. There are occasions where people who love their cars will park on the roof for protective reasons.

I could look at a car and tell if there were sombody inside. If it is hot and the car window is down? guess what. If it is cold and you can see the exhaust, once again, trying to stay warm. One thing I found, people don't just sit in their car, they are either doing it, smoking it, or thinking how they lost it.

I like to pass info. to my fellow mongers because I want to see us stay safe.
I posted a thread earlier, letting out of towners know, that in the state of Nevada, sex in public is a felony. Some people have been convicted, its not worth getting a conviction like that, being careless. If you have to do the deed, check your surroundings thoroughly.

Heidi Fleiss is moving to Crystal(80 miles from vegas) about 20 miles from Pahrump. She is setting up a brothel-get this, for women. She is looking for "a few good men". She may not get the license(or at least is not suppose to) because she is a convicted felon from the 90's when she ran a madam escort service. It served the rich and famous who wanted to keep their flings secret, some paid $10k.

This is one where some friends here will just have to agree to disagree in a friendly way. I am probably more suspicious and cautious about some aspects of this business than others want to be, and I guess it's a matter of personal comfort level and individual judgment about acceptable risks, but for myself I don't like the parking garage plan at all.

In my experience it varies from property to property, but there is enough surveillance of them to make me uncomfortable with the probability of having issues with public safety folks, but not nearly enough for me to consider it safe from getting rolled by a psycho-pimp boyfriend or a dumb sleazy opportunist. No shortage of either hanging ‘round in Vegas, shadowing hookers and their dates. I am aware of several recent (unpublicized) instances of people getting violently robbed, and in at least two cases killed, in casino parking garages, as well as the ho-hum everyday occurrence of break-ins and theft and mugging and snatching and jacking and assaults which are more common there than folks in the industry want to admit. Clearly it is not "safe" from that standpoint, and least not enough for me. In fact the act of parking and going to and from my car is what I consider the most vulnerable position I routinely put myself in, as much as traveling to LA and cruising certain streets in Compton and Watts. But then I'm probably more cautious and controlling in these matters than many, so take all the opinions into account in making a judgment.

Most casinos try to patrol and monitor their parking facilities for a variety of reasons, including trying to limit their potential liability in a civil suit following any harm ("we did everything we could to protect the poor drunk fool, ah, the deceased") that may come to their guests, and people do get arrested for stuff in garages as a result of their surveillance. I have been politely questioned by security folks many times in parking areas while doing nothing illegal or outrageous, and I'd be happy if they did more of it at some properties. I am aware of one garage that is an exception to my personal rule, but I happen to know in great detail exactly what the security situation is at that one particular property, and I don't want to discuss it in this forum.

In a more general way, I do not like anything about the idea of taking a hooker's suggestion of where to go. Whether it is a room or a garage or an alley or the Garden of Eden, I believe that single act more than any other vastly increases the risks in this game. I won't say I've never done it, 'cause I have, but I'm very reluctant and very suspicious of anyone who wants to direct me to a spot of THEIR choosing upon first meeting. If I do so, I have given up a great deal of my control of the situation. Think it through, and most unpleasant stuff that can happen requires willingness to give up the choice of location and control of the environment and who-all might actually become part of that environment and/or leave it and me without my invitation.

I have pre-selected spots around town which I have determined in advance to be MY safe, discrete, politely private places for parking. With one unique exception none of them are in garages or on a gaming property, and I will not even use one of them which is too near the spot where I have picked up a SW. I'm paying, so I'll call the tune and we'll have to go to a place convenient for me, which is intentionally NOT a place too convenient for her or any of her associates. If I'm spending a C-note or more then I consider the cost of a room, again of MY choosing and not hers, to be acceptable overhead along with gas and a beverage and handi-wipe towlettes. If she starts giving me orders and directions even before getting the money, I consider that a bad sign that she's a wrong number anyway. If I wanted power struggles over money and sex and where to go and what to do I'd just get married and get that every damn day. Some of these girls use their customers as an opportunity to express their emotional issues with power and men and control and stuff, and I want them to pay me if they're going to do that. It starts with "we're gonna go here honey" and if that's a problem for her, we are done, goodbye and good luck.

On the specific situation mentioned by the original poster, I'm not surprised that some gaming security folks might be cordial with some working girls. Hell, a dear friend of mine who performs that kind of service for a living has had a regular weekly thing going with a guy on the security staff of a downtown gaming property for several years now. I have also never heard of a single instance of a reverse sting of a customer by LE inside a major gaming property. Busting the girls, yes many times, but I’m not aware of the reverse INSIDE a casino. On the other hand, I believe in the rule that if it feels hinky somehow, it probably is, and it is wise for me to stop what I'm doing. Until the day when there is only one hooker left in Vegas and I have been told I have only 24 hours to live, I believe it is best for me to only put myself in situations which I am confident meet all of my selected criteria, or just throw her back and remain locked and loaded for tomorrow and the night after.

Just one opinion, sift through them all and make an individual judgment based on personal comfort level. But I don't foresee any sudden dire shortage of hookers or hotels requiring me to take a chance today for fear that there won't be another in Vegas tomorrow, and I won't be taking parking directions from any of them.

I appreciate and respect the opinions of Wastrel and Guady who've countered my endorsement of casino parking. Caution and safety are good things. And maybe circumstances are a little different in LV. My recommendation is based on years of experience in Atlantic City, my primary mongering town. I visit Vegas often and occasionally use casino parking there but in LV I usually monger away from the Strip.

Casino parking is my much preferred option in AC, although it's not one I'm eager to publicize. For me, security is one of the main benefits. In AC I like my chances of avoiding violence (robbery by the girl, her associates, or some passing opportunist) a whole lot more in a casino lot than in any other public place in town. Just on that basis alone, my stress level about the situation goes down a lot. I flat out feel physically safe -- always.

As for casino security, as I said in my original post obviously we don't want to be stupid about it. To Wastrel's point, I've developed preferences. Over time, you learn things about certain parking lots and security situations that make them more preferred than others. As to Guady's comment regarding camera's yeah I know they can zoom from a distance. But if you're in a car and park between two SUVs and know the location of the cameras, you can certainly reduce the danger.

But the other point is, when mongering I'm mostly concerned about LE. I almost never (maybe never) see LE walking or driving around an AC casino lot. No disrespect, but my level of worry with casino security is not on the same scale. I'm not planning on sitting there banging a girl for hours. I'm in and out (so to speak) in a brief amount of time. If a civilian or even security walks nearby, I don't feel in immediate jeopardy as I would somewhere else. I just pause or calmly take my business elsewhere. I don't think (or find) that hassling someone in a car who parks normally, doesn't leave the car, and exits the property in a short amount of time is a priority issue at most casinos.

Funny story...

Many years ago (close to 20) a I went to the Imperial Palace with my then girlfriend. On the way out it dawned on us both that we wanted to fuc& each other's brains out. There was this elevator that afforded no privacy in the garage area. I think it was the one that used to go towards the car display.

Anyway - we were at it hot and heavy. I mean to say on the floor going at it like we were at home. The door opened and we crawled/rolled out onto the landing. Sometime thru it all we noticed the cameras.

We always wondered if it was just dumb luck that security didn't show up until we were re-dressed and on our way. He showed up with a small smirk on his face - not as big as ours but there never the less.

In a post 9-11 world I don't think I would expect a free ride till the end anymore, if security was aware of the situation. Security, for the most part, is going to shoo you away and off the property. Unless it's one of those gung-ho idiots that think a badge (& gun) is the same as being God for the day.

If they notice you pulling in and not leaving the vehicle that would present itself as suspicious circumstances and they will follow up on it. A trip to the usually empty roof levels will usually flag you out as well. It's out of the ordinary as far as behaviour. That's what gets attention. Unless. of course, it's a shift or house whose Security Department feels their primary purpose is to drink coffee all nite.

I've spent many a time zooming in on a pair nice firm breasts with erect nipples inside of a low-cut blouse floundering around on a 21 table. I've chased people out of pool areas that were fuc&!ng under a towel. It's a public access area and that makes it an activity that puts security in the position to move you on. A good security person will assess the situation and current environment. Otherwise,without the possibility of numerous customer complaints, - hell they're liable to print out a freeze frame for the office.

Bear in mind that surveillance rooms are not usually manned in the smaller casinos. Being manned is a gaming requirement dependant upon class which is determined by revenue. The "lower" class (B&C) will have 24 recording capabilities and limited access to that area (logged in & out and only permitted, gaming control approved, personnel) , but not usually a pair of eyes.

Then you always have "Detex" rounds where a scheduled & programmed patrol is mandatory. Liability for a casino is a funny thing. It's not the lawsuits that add up, it's the out of court settlements thru the corporate lawyers that get the attention. And they all get their sh!tload share of them. The idea is to keep it all out of court. Detex rounds prove the presence of security at certain points and certain intervals. Insurance companies eat that up. Those rounds take away a lot of the negligence issues by proving the physical presence of security.

But, for the most part, I wouldn't worry too much about security if you're "hidden" from the public. At best they show you the exit and try to emabarrass you. Some might even try to horn the broad themselves as a trade-off; risking their job in the process.

As far as security & CWs - I posted before about the general views on that. As long as the girls are cool and stealthy and the pick-ups aren't liquid stupid, they'll get by. The pit mainly wants their clientle to spend their moneey on the tables and if the girl keeps them there to spend it, they get a star. If they pul a player off the game while he's holding a lot - they could run into some resistance. "I hear you doing that again and you'll be back at the Stage Door".

For those mongers visiting from out of town, be careful how this town is run.

All major casinos have surveillance cameras and most of the smaller ones. The minute you come onto the property, whether by foot or car, you are being recorded. They have "real time" in which they may follow you, for whatever reason, and they always have their archives.

Don't underestimate security, they have "citizens arrest" abilities "like everybody else", but they put it to use. Scenerio- couple parked in a car, going at it. They are noticed, surveillance gets the video evidence, security rolls up, done. Can't beat that in court.

I was told the parking garage was the highest crime area of a casino. They know you have money going in (to gamble) and they think you have a jackpot coming out. If you are in a compromising position, the bad guys have one up on you. If people knew what was happening in casino garages, more people would valet.

One last note for out of towners, these girls are wise. Alot of them will trick roll you, because they know nothing will happen to them. If she steals, lets say, $1k from you and you catch her, are you going to take her to court?
Probably not, her lawyer will be the first to point out why you where with her, then you have to argue it was your money, not hers.

Oh, don't forget, you have to fly back, get a hotel, take time off from work.
She knows you are not going to fight her over that money, your wife might want to go with you this time, to see if you win the case.

Be careful when you are with cw's and especially if you have two girls. Never take a shower without her, if you are drunk, pass for the night. I have heard stories of girls robbing johns of $20k and more. If they are caught, they just give it back and pretty much go on their way, its worth a try.

[QUOTE=Guady1]
CW's will tell you to go to your car if you don't have a room but you have to realize most of them have a record so they don't care if you get caught. Sex in public in Nevada is a FELONY.[/QUOTE]


Here are the relevant sections from the Nevada Revised Statutes =


[b] NRS 201.210 Open or gross lewdness; penalty.[/b]

1. A person who commits any act of open or gross lewdness is guilty:

(a) For the first offense, of a gross [red]misdemeanor.[/red]

(b) For any subsequent offense, of a category D felony and shall be punished as provided in NRS 193.130.

2. For the purposes of this section, the breast feeding of a child by the mother of the child does not constitute an act of open or gross lewdness.

[Part 1911 C&P § 195; A 1921, 112; NCL § 10142]—(NRS A 1963, 63; 1965, 1465; 1967, 476; 1973, 95, 255, 1406; 1977, 866; 1979, 1429; 1983, 206; 1991, 1008; 1995, 127, 1199, 1327; 1997, 2501, 3188)


[b]NRS 201.220 Indecent or obscene exposure; penalty.[/b]

1. A person who makes any open and indecent or obscene exposure of his person, or of the person of another, is guilty:

(a) For the first offense, of a gross [red]misdemeanor.[/red]

(b) For any subsequent offense, of a category D felony and shall be punished as provided in NRS 193.130.

2. For the purposes of this section, the breast feeding of a child by the mother of the child does not constitute an act of open and indecent or obscene exposure of her body.

[Part 1911 C&P § 195; A 1921, 112; NCL § 10142]—(NRS A 1965, 1465; 1967, 476; 1973, 96, 255, 1406; 1977, 867; 1979, 1429; 1983, 206; 1991, 1008; 1995, 127, 1200, 1327; 1997, 2501, 3189)


Next =

Seeing as how Casino properties have the heaviest surveillance on Earth , using the garage is obviously gonna pose some risks

How·ever , according the FBI's Manual on Street Prostitution — and the Experience of Yours Truly — the average
Car Date lasts only [u]ten minutes[/u] , so why NOT give it a shot ??

[QUOTE=Cienega32]...for the most part, I wouldn't worry too much about security if you're "hidden" from the public. At best they show you the exit and try to emabarrass you.... As long as the girls are cool and stealthy and the pick-ups aren't liquid stupid, they'll get by. The pit mainly wants their clientle to spend their moneey on the tables and if the girl keeps them there to spend it, they get a star. If they pul a player off the game while he's holding a lot - they could run into some resistance. [/QUOTE]
Cienga32 summarizes my perspective perfectly. Thanks also to Psyber Zombie and Desert Dude for weighing in. While I appreciate Guady's attempt to offer tips to out-of-towners, I'm not exactly seeing much in his scattered truisms that any brain-active monger doesn't already know. I've been doing this for awhile in slightly grittier places than Vegas casinos. Guady seems to suggest out-of-towners need to factor in a whole new set of rules for mongering in LV to deal with the heightened levels of danger, deceitful providers, rampant casino parking lot crime, and paradoxically to that last point, the extraordinary vigilance of casino parking lot security.

I've probably visited Vegas 50 times in the past 10 years -- most of the time arriving not on the back of a turnip truck. Somehow I've missed out on all this drama. Logistics of pickups and parking seem to work pretty much the same there as other places -- with the exception that the presence of casino parking lots in places like AC and LV adds a reasonably safe alternative for doing the deed, one that is not available on the mean streets of most U.S. cities. I'll let the topic drop at this point because I'd just as soon not have a bunch of mongers joining me in parking lots and ruining a good thing.

[QUOTE=Guady1]
I was told the parking garage was the highest crime area of a casino. They know you have money going in (to gamble) and they think you have a jackpot coming out. If you are in a compromising position, the bad guys have one up on you. If people knew what was happening in casino garages, more people would valet. [/QUOTE]

Casino Properties are probably the *safest* places on Earth , G·1 = BE·CAUSE of the fact that EVERY·THING there is caught on tape

Can any·one here post a link to a Story in , say , the L·V SUN , about a mugging / robbery / rape / murder in one of these Major Strip Casinos Garages ??

[QUOTE=Mike 80]I'll let the topic drop at this point[/QUOTE]After dismissively slamming the other poster who's opinion doesn't match yours. You're quite welcome to disagree, as some friends here have, but I sure don't care for that method of doing so.

I haven't "missed that drama." Am I "off the turnip truck?" They are prime high crime areas and magnets for opportunistic thugs, and they are patrolled for just that reason. Find it paradoxical if you wish, I don't, it's what I see. My particular turnip truck has for years travelled to Los Angeles and parked with SWs in selected spots in the most notorious ghetto, but won't do the same thing in a Las Vegas casino garage, becuase I find them to be simultaneously more patrolled and more dangerous places to have my pants down. It may be a dumb place to mug someone, but there doesn't seem to be an intelligence test to join the street creep union. Perhaps it is a little different than Atlantic City, I wouldn't know about that. This is a city of a million and a half people, including many who've not earned their boy scout good citizenship merit badge.

Do what you feel comfortable with, but I have been questioned by security on one occasion while cleaning my windshield and another while briefly checking my drive belts to investigate a noise, and also know of two killings during robberies in casino parking within the last six months, as well as having to personally ask a group of surly menacing bandana clad dudes to please finish smoking their little glass pipe a few feet further down so I can back my car out of it's space at the Flamingo. I have had a few serious close scrapes in the past just going to my car from the casino when I was not attentive to my environment, and I take precautions there, not a special feeling of unique safety. I think I may be just a little bit familiar with the subject too, and I may have been seen here and there around Vegas, oh, at least once or twice perhaps. Trick rolls are very common in LV, and one should not think there is some magical immunity on casino land. Ask the family of the man killed while having his car jacked at the Bellagio.

P.S. to PZ, Here you go:

[SIZE=5]Police seek shooter of man killed in Palms parking lot[/size]
[B]Las Vegas police say prostitution might be factor in incident[/b]
By FRANK CURRERI
REVIEW-JOURNAL

A 38-year-old man was gunned down Tuesday morning in front of the Palms.

Authorities are investigating whether prostitution played a role in the slaying, the second outside the hotel in two years.

[url]http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2005/Apr-27-Wed-2005/news/26387097.html[/url]

Don't expect to get what you just requested very often. This incident is unusual in that it was allowed to get into the public press in Las Vegas. The industry usually prevents that kind of publicity, unless there is a celebrity involved and it is publicized elsewhere. Casinos are more significant to local media advertising departments than all other industries combined. They are not usually in the Vegas press. The poor tourist slaughtered at the Bellagio was buried in a paragraph in the back pages, and a string of serial muggings in garages was killed in print, and when the police description of the prolific suspect was allowed to be mentioned on one broadcast station they omitted locations to avoid naming casinos in an unfavorable context.

The most heavily survielled place on earth DOES NOT equal the safest.

P.P.S. You got me curious about how many of the incidents that I know about have made the local press. The answer is not many, in fact none of them that I have some direct knowlege about, just those with some special "hook" to make them more newsworthy or hard to ignore than usual. The R-J no longer permits free use of it's archives beyond a week, but a quick check did allow me to call up some abstracts, and you'll have to pay for complete access. The R-J has now absorbed the Sun. Here's a little sample tour, on-Strip, off-Strip, and downtown:

Date: June 11, 2005
Section: City
Page: 2B
Words: 386

Poker champion details heist attempt at Bellagio
By GLENN PUIT REVIEW-JOURNAL

One of the nation's best poker players told in court Friday how he fended off two robbers trying to steal his $150,000 in gambling chips during an ill-advised attack at Bellagio last year.

Greg "Fossilman" Raymer said he was returning to his hotel room at the Strip resort on Dec. 20 at 2 a.m. with $150,000 in chips in a duffle bag when authorities allege Kevin R. Joy, 35, and Deem Cassim, 31, tried to jump him and force

Date: August 28, 2005
Section: City
Page: 3B
Words: 792

WEEK IN REVIEW: Gunman kills woman in Suncoast parking lot
Ronald Miller stared down the barrel of a gun on Tuesday and didn't beg for mercy. "Go ahead and do it, you son of a *****," Miller recalled telling the armed stranger who ambushed him and his wife in the Suncoast casino parking lot Tuesday morning.

Within seconds, the man made good on his threat to kill and pulled the trigger. Miller's wife, Julie, 68, who he said had offered the gunman money, lay dying in the Henderson couple's


Date: April 22, 2005
Section: City
Page: 3B
Words: 217

Man sought in series of assaults, robberies
REVIEW-JOURNAL Las Vegas police are asking the public for help in identifying a man investigators believe has assaulted and robbed five elderly men since December in downtown Las Vegas.

The suspect, police said, watches elderly men inside resorts and follows them when they proceed to an elevator, police said.

The suspect then has followed the victims as they exit the elevator. He has grabbed them and pushed them to the ground before robbing them, police said.

Here's another possibility that might work for some, though I generally prefer more conventional inexpensive hotel accomodations if I'm into something more than parking. An excerpt from something I previously posted elsewhere:

<SNIP>

[I]I'll give some hints in another direction by quoting some amateur reviews of a place somewhat well known locally: the Oasis Motel at 1731 Las Vegas Blvd South, culled from one of those travel web sites, which I believe are a representative sample of opinion on the establishment:

Date Visited: 04/03 - Bad Visit
DO NOT VISIT THIS MOTEL!!! Rooms are advertized as "Jacuzzi Rooms" - that is why we went there. THE ROOM WAS A DUMP WITH NO JACUZZI (not even a bathtub!) The room was filthy with a door that was coming off of the hinges, wires coming out of the wall, a wobbly bed, an exposed nail sticking out of the headboard, a dripping faucet, and the list could go on and on. We went back to the cashier and she said "sorry no refund". There were no other rooms available and she would not even give a discount. We left this place and stayed at a beautiful suite at the LUXOR instead.

Date Visited: 12/02 - Good Visit
Great place to go to get away from the kids and other family members. This is and Adult Motel it was Adult Tv XXX and thats why we go there we can cut lose and have are fun. Price is right for 3hr slots and they have theme rooms availble.

Rated family friendly: 0%
Rated not family friendly: 100%
Would return: 50%

Amenities:
Casino: No
Restaurant: No
Pool: No
Health Club: No
Pets Allowed: Yes (!)
Convention Facility: No
Motor Coach Group: No

I gather the first reviewer showed up with luggage and paid for an overnight stay expecting to actually sleep there, which probably shocked the bejeesus out of the desk clerk. Pets allowed? Hell, I don't imagine the night desk clerk at the Oasis would notice if you showed up for a threesome with Osama bin Laden, a boa constrictor, and the Queen of England, so long as both Osama and Her Majesty are prepared to present valid picture ID, as required by local ordinance. But arriving with luggage, now that would be suspicious behavior.[/I]

<SNIP & END QUOTE>

If you're feeling snarky you could try asking the clerk for the Stu Ungar memorial "time to fold 'em" suite or the David Strickland special. It's been a favorite place for some well known people to end their time in Vegas by checking out, so to speak. In the same way as the Nicholas Cage character in the film "Leaving Las Vegas."

[blue][Photo deleted by Admin][/blue]

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]The photo originally included with this report was deleted in accordance with the ISG Forum's Photo Guidelines prohibiting the posting of photos containing [u]embedded text[/u]. Please read the Forum's Photo Guidelines for further information.[/blue][/size]

The Most Eye·Opening Post of the Year Award goes to [b]Wastrel[/b] , for =

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=399043&postcount=535[/URL]

[QUOTE=PsyberZombie]Casino Properties are probably the *safest* places on Earth , G·1 = BE·CAUSE of the fact that EVERY·THING there is caught on tape

Can any·one here post a link to a Story in , say , the L·V SUN , about a mugging / robbery / rape / murder in one of these Major Strip Casinos Garages ??[/QUOTE]

Just because the story isn't in the paper or on the news doesn't mean it didn't happen. And it won't be public record unless it's reported as a crime to Metro. And even then it might not show up in the news. Not even all caisno robberies are on the news.

Believe it or not I have seen people report to security, AND request metro, the fact that they had called for an escort, and while in the bathroom, the girl would split with the idiot's money - all she could find in the room. "I've been robbed!" - "You've been rolled".


EVERYTHING is NOT caught on tape. Parking surveillence is not mandatory. Patrols, at least, are. The lower the annual revenue of the house the less chance of cameras in every corner. Those "Detex" rounds that I mentioned are a physical record of security presence. If those rounds are performed in a timely manner, the casino liability is reduced greatly, in the eyes of the insurance comapanies.

Surveillence, overall, is a State required concept and it starts with the money and, sometime in the late 80's (courtesy of the 'Shoe), the security office. My philosophy has always been "It's the state's money and they give the casino a kickback". Any aspect of "the money" will have the tightest control and surveilence. From there, the needs of the casino come into play. Exits, elevator doors, etc. Not all have cams IN the elevators, on each floor, or in the parking areas.

Bear in mind that I'm not talking about the Class A casinos. And not all the Class B joints either. The A's and most of the B's will spend the money to give the guests the peace of mind and spread the word. But the Class C houses will be the ones that usually have "minimum requirements" met and a little more to cover their own asses in insurance matters. Those matters aren't mainly for crimes or events but for scams as well. The biggest of which is against the "victim"'s own insurance companies and in cases of "negligent security procedures" against the casino.

People have been known to make claims of being jacked in a garage to cover the fact that they've lost all their money and jewelry (fire sales) on the tables. It helps when they explain to their spouse with a security report and insurance claim. These types of things raise insurance premiums and give the property a bad rep. If it's found that the casino is negligent (history or obvious & blatant disregard), then there's in, or out of, court settlements to deal with.

The rounds are made for a variety of reasons. Potential fire/flood hazards, body dumpings, prowlings, muggings, rapes, suspicious events, etc. Catching someone getting a mutally agreed upon $20 BJ in the front seat is just a bonus and usualy results in a quick verbal 86. Again if you come across a Robo-cop gung ho idiot, and there are many of them, you could end up with a full blown 86 (picture and file) and could result in a no question arrest (probably a citation but I don't know for sure).

Some guys might take you to task to "prove their value" within the department. Some might not see any difference betweent your front seat activities and a vehicle breakin - it's wrong and you did it on their property. Some might just make a report of the event for future reference in case of any associated events relative to you, her, or the vehicle. Some just might try to make you the fool and move you on. Don't know if it holds true anymore, but some might move you and negotiate their own BJ with the HO.

Most security department learn the "Powers of Arrest" from Metro. This is needed to prevent lawsuits, charges of unlawful detention, and reduces liabity for the casino. Sadly, many of those Robo-cop types see that as being a mini-cop and play cops & robbers with that "self-empowerment".

This being a "post 9-11" world, and being the concept behind Las Vegas makes it a perfect target, the security methods are heightned a lot more than they used to be. It used to be just a "property protection" type concept. Now's it's a "We're in this together" type attitude thru-out town.

That and the fact that every security guard in the world now wants to be the one that made the big life/property saving score makes a post 9-11 world a little different than it used to be.

One of my first days of work in Las Vegas, somewhere in 81 I think it was, found me in a bit of a wise-guy type house. Being from the land of wise-guys, I figured I would try something on my own.

After flagging the broad as a potential & new CW, I struck up a conversation with her. She told me about herself and her rates (this was 81 remember). I suggested that perhaps we could work out an arrangement between herself and her friendly security guard (me).

Her expression instantly turned to one of dispair and she fumbled in her little street walker purse. She then said, "I don't know what to do - I already have to give this guy 20%". Then she handed me the swing shit pit boss's business card.

I knew the guy, he confirmed her statement and we later had a good laugh over it.

I never was able to negotiate any bargain prices with her.

[QUOTE=Cienega32]She then said, "I don't know what to do - I already have to give this guy 20%".[/QUOTE]So if the poor girl met half a dozen friendly helpful guys she could end up going into debt every time she did a date.

[QUOTE=Cienega32]Surveillence, overall, is a State required concept and it starts with the money...[/QUOTE]It's been my understanding that it was first and foremost to help correct the arithmetic challenged folks in the counting room with their 'Vegas math.' "Two for the house, one for the gubment, one for da boys in Chicago. Four for the house, two for the gubment, two for da boys..."

[QUOTE=Wastrel]So if the poor girl met half a dozen friendly helpful guys she could end up going into debt every time she did a date.[/QUOTE]

Nah - the shift boss controlled her "fate/future" and the card was her way of saying "I'm covered".

It was pretty funny when I approached the guy and asked just how the hell was I suppossed to score up in this joint!

We had another pit boss (an old numbers runner from Jersey) who would deal from time to time. Of course, prior to that, he would claim to have left something in the casino mgr's office, we would let him in, and he would accidently lock a cam off one table. That would be the table he would open upon his return.

I learned much, back then, about gaming regs. Not to be the enforcer but to know when to look away. If you don't see it - you don't know it. Of course when we would get people like TOny Pro Jr. come to play the cams would burn holes in the table and security (usually me) was instructed to be within 6 feet of junior - by his request. That was a good gig that resulted in a couple of yards falling my way everytime he played.

Of course Gaming Control was a little different as well, back then. If a customer called them to complain about a machine's payout (or lack there of), a field agent or two would come out, plunk some iron in the machine and if they got a cherry somewhere down the line the claim was dismissed with a casual "Seems to pay OK to me" and be on their way.

The best part was watching the owner play craps with house money buy-ins and cash out. Same guy would run rack of blacks to the crap table when Stupek (I threw him out once and that was a lifetime memory for me. He was a piece of shit) would play. That would be without any paperwork. One cashier explained that she the needed paperwork to complete the transaction. The owner explained that if she wanted her fuc&ing job she would get the rack on the counter now. "It's my f'ing money and if want to finish the shift you'll get it." Never saw the broad again, after that nite, nor did I hear of any repercussions of his actions.

Ahhh, the good ole days are gone.

[QUOTE=Wastrel]It's been my understanding that it was first and foremost to help correct the arithmetic challenged folks in the counting room with their 'Vegas math.' "Two for the house, one for the gubment, one for da boys in Chicago. Four for the house, two for the gubment, two for da boys..."[/QUOTE]

All they were doing was trying to reduce that heavy burden of paperwork for the accounting department. That's all. I can see their point. Why wait for the process - just send it now.

Sadly, the fine State of Nevada didn't see it that way. They didn't care for the back doors in the count rooms either. Fussy bastards...

Wastrel,
Sorry I won't be snotty this time. :-) Thanks for the interesting link and snippets. Hadn't heard about the Raymer thing. All duly noted. But since you've brought it up, I would point out that the Palms incident and all of the other stories you cite involved people who at some point if not during the entire crime were outside their vehicle. My #1 rule of mongering inside a casino parking lot is always drive into the lot with the girl in your car, never leave the vehicle, and then drive out with the girl in your car. I've never experienced a bad situation observing that rule. Occasional bad service for sure, but nothing even close to a problem with security or threat of crime. You're a smart guy, I enjoy your posts, but I can't believe you're serious in saying you feel safer parking with an SW in the most notorious LA ghetto than at a LV casino. As you indicate, everyone has their own comfort level. For myself, when I think of the volume of cars and people that file through Vegas (and AC) parking garages in the course of a year, I like my chances better one on one with a girl in a closed car in a casino lot than anywhere in the ghetto.

I guess there is something I don't understand: what is leading you to believe you are more "one on one" with her in that garage than in another alternate location you might have selected in advance? Here's a suggestion, which sounds like it is already part of your parking method if I understand it correctly: for those who like the casino garage idea, don't just walk her to the parked car on the property where you picked her up, but instead I suggest that it's worth driving away to park at another Casino garage on a different property, to reduce the likelihood of meeting her Uncle Leroy who is often nearby, in just the same way as I don't park elsewhere in town in a place too near the pickup and not of my careful choosing with any SW. If she particularly wants you to do that at that specific property, and only there, hint, hint, not a good sign. If I wanted to do it in one of those garages, I do like your rules of drive her in do it and drive her out. I'll add to that a general parking rule I have wherever I park: I don't leave my keys dangling in the ignition switch, and my other keys are not attached to it. No prize for guessing that came from some specific experience.

Wherever we choose to go we will still have fewer legal rights against stop, search, and seizure and more more legal dangers (where did that come from, it's not mine, I swear) in any motor vehicle, almost anywhere except your garage at home. My concern for provoking encounters with Casino security folks by being that outrageous in a public area on a gaming property is really not that I think they're very likely to want to see me jailed for that, though they could if the working girl is stupid as a few of them are, but is more related to the fact that I live nearby and I'm around a lot, and plan to stay that way, so perhaps that's not as relevant to some other readers of this who are occasional visitors.

Though I do agree with what I take to be your more general notion that one is more vulnerable to getting rolled on the way to the car than when in it, you are very much mistaken in stating that the instances I cite are all of people who were out of their vehicles. The very specific instance I cited was at the Bellagio, and he was shot to death in his car. I wrote that none of the recent incidents I'm aware of are included in the sample of recent news abstracts I pulled up in response to the request for a news link. Again, I'm not understanding why it would be presumed that being in your car there is better than an alternate place to be in your car. It is completely contrary to my own experience. And why the garage in particular in preference to the surface lot if you feel that a gaming property confers some kind of immunity from problems? Folks will want to believe what they want to believe, and often make decisions based on what something looks like. So be it; those illusions built the town.

But one more time, take it for what you feel it's worth: trick rolls are very common in this town, and there are several happening somewhere on the Strip right now as I write this. My safety is my responsiblity when doing something that isn't exactly legal and mixing with individuals who aren't exactly boy & girl scouts, and paying expensive prices for good looks and pretty decoration does absolutely nothing in terms of security, safety, or her performance for that matter. It gets you an appealing appearance, period.

One more suggestion: next time you're in town, stand on a pedestrian skybridge, say the one crossing Flamingo looking down towards the walkway and sitting area out in front of Bally's, and take notice of the dudes sauntering and milling around alone below with no apparent destination or interest in any of the resorts or attractions, and think about what you think they are doing there, and where they might be from. Will you believe me if I tell you that I have recognized a few from south LA as well as a similar area of Las Vegas? Probably not, so I won't tell you. I prefer a parking place more discretely under my sole control, and yes I have places selected in ghettos and elsewhere in which I have that. Low-income or visually unappealing non-residential places can in some ways be easier for locating that than "good" areas. I have been doing this for a while too, and my parking spots are not usually selected on the spur of the moment.

I don't want to foolishly try to convince you to drop something that seems to work for you, and I suspect people reading through this conversation will take the information and probably end up all over the map with differing individual decisions on this based on their personal attitudes and experiences. I was maybe about one-quarter of the way swayed by the discussion to think about whether I could make some version of the garage gig work for me, anyway. I'll look forward to more of your well written posts, and I promise not to complain if I happen to pull into the adjoining parking slot.

NRS 201.263 ?Sexual conduct? defined. ?Sexual conduct? means acts of masturbation, homosexuality, sexual intercourse or physical contact with a person?s unclothed genitals or pubic area.

Once again for the out of towners I am trying to keep informed, be careful while in sin city. You can do the deed, wherever you feel comfortable.

As far as casino parking garages, the cameras do not see everything. They have blind spots. Many areas are covered when the surveillance person "pans" the camera to that area.

Have you ever seen the news, show video of a crime? Most of the time you can't see anything, I don't know why they show them. Most video replays are shotty, not in focus, bad angles, what have you. The bad guys know this and continue to commit crimes.

I worked at a local casino(security) about two years ago and that was only two days a week (it was actually for mongering money, or waste money as I used to call it). Just in those two days, the things that was happening and at a local casino at that, was unbelievable.

I actually quit, because I got tired of the crime against people who came, and how the casino didn't do much to protect them. That goes for all of them, they do very little to protect you, its all about the bottom line.

I have seen crimes live and played back, who are these people? This guy waited at the elevator(in the garage) and as soon as the door opened, he grabbed a womans purse and got clean away(also knocked her down in the process) and nobody has a clue who this guy is.

Do you think the casino will put his picture on the news? Let's say its digital clear, I don't think so, because they don't want people to know "their" casino has that kind of activity.

One last note, look at the previous years crimes, they list hundreds of robberies, thefts, rapes, etc., do you think all of that is on the news?
Since there is 365 days in a year, That would be "news" all day to tell you all the crime "that was reported".

[QUOTE=Wastrel]If I wanted to do it in one of those garages, I do like those rules of drive her in do it and drive her out[/QUOTE]
As you said earlier, perhaps this is one on those cases in which friends will just have to agree to disagree. But I think maybe we're moving closer to something we do agree on. To clarify the point quoted above, yes you're correct in noting that the practice I follow does adhere to one of your own rules. I do NOT walk girls out to the garage and do my business there. No desire to meet Uncle Leroy or raise red flags among surveillance or garage security whose interest I might pique by walking out to my car through the casino. Instead these are always pickups I've made somewhere else on the street. The garage I select and the spot inside the garage are always of my own choosing. Once there we stay only long enough to do the deed then it's back out onto the street. That's the limitation of the practice I'm proposing is safe.

I separate that from occasions where I pick up a girl and take her back to the casino where I am staying. In that situation I think it's somewhat less likely that I'll run into her Uncle Leroy but admit there's some possibility of encountering Leroy the Stranger Opportunist. I'll certainly grant there is an element of danger in that situation -- as well as when walking her out to the car to drive back where I found her. But that's different from the more limited practice I've been focussing on. I do appreciate the valid concerns you raise about vulnerabilty to casino crime. Thanks.

[QUOTE=Mike 80]I do NOT walk girls out to the garage and do my business there. No desire to meet Uncle Leroy or raise red flags among surveillance or garage security whose interest I might pique by walking out to my car through the casino. Instead these are always pickups I've made somewhere else on the street. The garage I select and the spot inside the garage are always of my own choosing...

...I separate that from occasions where I pick up a girl and take her back to the casino where I am staying. In that situation I think it's somewhat less likely that I'll run into her Uncle Leroy but admit there's some possibility of encountering Leroy the Stranger Opportunist.[/QUOTE]I'm probably more suspicious and cautious about this stuff than the majority of guys here, and may be in danger of becoming the resident old maid always nagging to look both ways before crossing the street, but I do think there are some general principles embedded in that plan that are good to think about almost anywhere you do it.

It is much harder to pull any kind of set-up if she had no way of knowing the destination in advance and it isn't near the spot of the pickup or is inaccessible to anyone else without my permission. It's also less convenient for someone planning to do the old plain vanilla cash and dash. I only follow my own advice about 90% of the time, but having these rules in mind makes me think about what I'm doing if I'm about to make an exception. I think many of the unhappy surprise hangovers from hell in Las Vegas involve someone who comes to town with more dollars than sense and has about twelve too many free drinks and/or is hypnotized by her looks, putting their ordinary healthy skepticism into a temporary vegetative state when doing something they would never have done elsewhere, on the vague theory that if it's in Vegas reality is suspended and there can't be any of the normal consequences that would have made them think twice about doing the same thing in the same way back in Buffalo. "Clueless tourists travelling while stupid" stories serve as an entertaining local spectator sport substituting for the absence of a major professional sports franchise. The transient nature of the business in the resorts also might contribute to it, since they don't think there's much chance they'll ever run into you again.

On any one single roll of the dice I don't think these are extremely high probability events if I use the same ordinary horse sense I'd want to use anywhere else, but I do this stuff often enough that if I allow myself to get too complacent and careless it would just be a matter of time before I crapped out.

Picked up Angela at Budget Suites.

Nice girl.

Likes her crack, though.

No reliable digits.

[QUOTE=Guady1] As far as casino parking garages, the cameras do not see everything. They have blind spots. Many areas are covered when the surveillance person "pans" the camera to that area.
[/QUOTE]
And even with stationary cams, or with auto PTZ cams, the cluster is set up to give some degree of continuity from one to the next. That reduces the blind spots. With stationary cams you can eliminate blind spots all together, if not for some obstruction such as a support pillar. The frames on the monitor can be aligned to give an easy read. You enter one cam's field of view as you leave another's. Another consideration is not all cams need to be in bubbles as in the gaming areas or in a secured "mailbox". Most cams are in place as a visual deterant, like weapons used to be years ago. [i]Most[/i] cams are meant to be seen - not all.

[QUOTE=Guady1]I worked at a local casino(security) about two years ago and that was only two days a week (it was actually for mongering money, or waste money as I used to call it). Just in those two days, the things that was happening and at a local casino at that, was unbelievable.

I actually quit, because I got tired of the crime against people who came, and how the casino didn't do much to protect them. That goes for all of them, they do very little to protect you, its all about the bottom line.

I have seen crimes live and played back, who are these people? This guy waited at the elevator(in the garage) and as soon as the door opened, he grabbed a womans purse and got clean away(also knocked her down in the process) and nobody has a clue who this guy is.

Do you think the casino will put his picture on the news? Let's say its digital clear, I don't think so, because they don't want people to know "their" casino has that kind of activity.

One last note, look at the previous years crimes, they list hundreds of robberies, thefts, rapes, etc., do you think all of that is on the news?
Since there is 365 days in a year, That would be "news" all day to tell you all the crime "that was reported". [/QUOTE]

Another reason you won't see anything on the news is the fact that it's a useless endeavor. It'll mean nothing as it's only a snatch crime. Ranks up there with bucket grabs. No one really gives a crap that a $250 bucket of quarters got snatched. You're the dope for leaving them accessable. It's not a crime that earns priority, endangers the general population or has much chance of being solved.

The picture, if available, will be shared with other casino security forces, tho'. That network is also Metro accessable as they established it in the 80's with printers attached to old dial-up modems for text messages related to events ("Crime Alert Terminals" or CATs). Now if the subject appears on other events around town (or even in the same joint) commiting crimes over & over, with no real leads available, you'll see it on the news.

I've spent over 20 years in casino security (not any more) - many as Chief (No further info needs to be provided). I've worked with the huge fucking NASA type rooms and I've established smaller surveillance rooms that were well above and beyond what they call "minimum requirements" as set by Gaming COntrol. I've established patrol patterns & methods, policies & procedures that proved to be extremely effective. The biggest hole in any system, that relies on people's performance in order to work properly, is the people relied upon.

The details above are the main reason why I'm a bit outdated in the monger hobby. Lots of old-time memories with a huge void of info somewhere down the line. Sometimes it was just too hard to remain stealthy. It's an odd feeling when you go to some old Fremont Street shithole, notice some security checking you & the ho out and you realize that you recently fired the guy. Even stranger to be told you have a phone call and hear a friendly & familar voice say, "Look up to your left and smile!" Many houses consider such activities as "unbecoming" and possibly a conflict of interest to the department that you run. Better to lay low than to deal with a vengeful ex-employee or be the topic of gossip amongst "brothers in arms".

And like Wastrel, I still don't need any notoriety on the other side of the fence from various contacts and/or business relationships that have been established from that job. But I CAN tell you all a thing or two about how it works (in a pre 9-11 sense, of course).

I used to work surveillance in a large casino and I can tell you they have many blind spots. We would get calls asking if we got something on camera, and we would say out of camera range or too far to tell.

In the case of the woman getting her purse taken, that would be classified as strong arm robbery, because force was used. That is also a felony crime.

Times have changed from bucket theft. By the way, anything over $250 in value is a felony theft. The crooks have not given up because the new machines issuing tickets, as matter of fact, I think there is more theft.

With the new ticket system, you don't have to run with a heavy bucket. Just grab the ticket and go. Now, they do have a system that can void a stolen ticket, but you have to beat the crooks to the cash out booths. They cash that ticket so fast, the victim doesn't even have a chance to tell security before they can stop it.

They said on the news, Las Vegas is ranked 7th in the nation in crime. Just to let you know whats happening in this fair city.

People talk about trick rolls, they don't talk about how some girls burg. rooms after they have been with a guy. Yeah, the pimp is on them hot and heavy to make that green, so he can pay for his escalade.

These girls walk the halls, looking for open doors. Rob the guest of their valuables. If they get the attention of the guest, they just say they went into the wrong room, sorry.

The guest will believe her or hesitate long enough for her to leave the hotel safely. If a man tried that, there would be a different outcome.

The casino could care less about cw's. With the exception of feeding the high rollers, they aren't worth anything to the casino. Do you think they bring in customers? Do you think they give the casino any of that untaxed money?

They are, for the most part, a nusiance to the casino.

One last note and I am out of here. heading to the international posts. I am not on this to debate what I see and know.

Be careful who you stick, she could stick you right back. Metro used to send over photos of girls highly infected and asked sec. to watch it if they were taking any of them into custody. There is alot going on in this town.

Keep informed.

[QUOTE=Wastrel] I'll add to that a general parking rule I have wherever I park: I don't leave my keys dangling in the ignition switch, and my other keys are not attached to it. No prize for guessing that came from some specific experience..[/QUOTE]

I don't even use the Original manufacturer's key when mongering , just a cheap hard·ware store copy ; and I keep another copy hidden on board , too

Not that I've ever had a Bad Experience involving keys , but there are enough stories out there — like Wastrel's — that pre·emptive action seems adviseable



[QUOTE=Wastrel]
Wherever we choose to go we will still have fewer legal rights against stop, search, and seizure and more more legal dangers (where did that come from, it's not mine, I swear) in any motor vehicle, almost anywhere except your garage at home[/QUOTE]

A General Principle is that it's better and safer to have your Date on Private Property than in Public , where LE can just stumble up·on you at any given moment , and might very well routinely patrol public areas known to be used for these purposes

That's why I prefer places like Casino Garages or surface lots when I'm in LV ; and at home places like large apartment complex or factory parking lots ; cemeteries ; golf courses ; or the outer fringes of other private land

No matter how many other girls use the spot and how well known it is , LE doesn't generally patrol on Private Property ; and I'd rather take my chances with Security Guards then the local Police any day

Hey,

Can you move the camera talk somewhere else? I want to talk about hot b*tches.

A

[QUOTE=Guady1]I used to work surveillance in a large casino and I can tell you they have many blind spots. We would get calls asking if we got something on camera, and we would say out of camera range or too far to tell.

In the case of the woman getting her purse taken, that would be classified as strong arm robbery, because force was used. That is also a felony crime.

Times have changed from bucket theft. By the way, anything over $250 in value is a felony theft. The crooks have not given up because the new machines issuing tickets, as matter of fact, I think there is more theft.

With the new ticket system, you don't have to run with a heavy bucket. Just grab the ticket and go. Now, they do have a system that can void a stolen ticket, but you have to beat the crooks to the cash out booths. They cash that ticket so fast, the victim doesn't even have a chance to tell security before they can stop it.

They said on the news, Las Vegas is ranked 7th in the nation in crime. Just to let you know whats happening in this fair city.

People talk about trick rolls, they don't talk about how some girls burg. rooms after they have been with a guy. Yeah, the pimp is on them hot and heavy to make that green, so he can pay for his escalade.

These girls walk the halls, looking for open doors. Rob the guest of their valuables. If they get the attention of the guest, they just say they went into the wrong room, sorry.

The guest will believe her or hesitate long enough for her to leave the hotel safely. If a man tried that, there would be a different outcome.

The casino could care less about cw's. With the exception of feeding the high rollers, they aren't worth anything to the casino. Do you think they bring in customers? Do you think they give the casino any of that untaxed money?

They are, for the most part, a nusiance to the casino.

One last note and I am out of here. heading to the international posts. I am not on this to debate what I see and know.

Be careful who you stick, she could stick you right back. Metro used to send over photos of girls highly infected and asked sec. to watch it if they were taking any of them into custody. There is alot going on in this town.

Keep informed.[/QUOTE]

Gee - I hope you don't think we're debating anything. I'm only trying to enhance the available information. However - if you DO think I'm trying to debate what you see & know...

The point of whether or not a purse snatch, or a bucket grab of $250 or more is a felony, has nothing to do with my point. SHowing your knowledge and use of terminology means nothing to me as far as my point.

My point is the odds of the subject getting caught is damn near nil. No one gives a crap. If there was personal injury it'll have a better chance of being pursued and even then don't hold your breath over some skinned knees. Shit is going to happen.

A purse snatch is a purse snatch - regardless of strong-arm. No one gives a crap. After the purse is found in some garbage can, or another casino calls to trace the key and ownership, the vic is usually just glad to have their ID back. Look at the severity of the crime other than the legal definition of it. Being a felony doesn't mean shit for any reason other than the conviction.

If these victims don't know or aren't informed that the chances of the subject being caught is small, then they are living in a fantasy world. That's the real world.

I'm not a big fan of "crime stats" for Vegas. Mainly because we are a tourist town with many, many stupid tourists who leave themselves open to crime. Another reason is those stats are based on crimes reported. Many of those crimes reported come from stupid people who leave their purse next to them on the floor, are too drunk to make sure their room door is closed, forget to close their car door let alone lock it,etc,.etc.. Those are crimes commited against stupid people and they report it. It skews the numbers.

A hotel/casino cannot provide security for every guest nor can they provide it every 10 feet on every floor of the hotel. Shit is going to happen and people need to excercise some smarts when they leave the confines of their home. People need to protect themselves from themselves first.

There are some smarter ones that realized they boneheaded themselves into the situation and won't even report it. Our larceny/theft stats are a bit lower than national averages. Our GTAs are thru the roof. Most people want their cars back and the subject caught. It goes on a hot sheet and if it's found - it's found. If it's noticed - it's noticed.

For ANY security to think a manhunt should commence (not in a literal sense) because it's a felony is either living in a fantasy world or has, what I call, a Robo-Cop attitude and usually becomes a problem to the department, property and/or guests.

One needs to look closely at the severity of the crime and how it affects the real world. A purse snatch can be either unfortunate or just stupidity. A bucket grab is stupidity - either on the part of the victim for not assessing their environment and/or on the part of the casino for not addressing the potential problem to begin with. Once upon a time there weren't partitions between machine rows and it was a effortless hobby for many.

Now when you apply that potential Robo-Cop mentality to our monger world we can have a problem. "BLOWJOB!!! It's a crime!!! I have a badge!!!" Those are the guys that have long days and think that the more they fill their event log and have more IRs than everyone, then the better they are at their job. Some guys can assess the situation - others can't see the forest thru the trees. Now what to do - crime against nature, sodomy, indecent shit, pay for play? Oh my!

As far as black holes in surveillence - I didn't say that were no blind spots. I said there doesn't have to be. A casino isn't going to cam every square inch of a remote area unless that area is somewhat hot. Most will address the hole after a crime against a person. A second event in the same place could be defined as negligent and be a costly settlement. ANy area that has a reasonable amount of traffic, guest or employee, should have a solid grid, or at least minimal loss of coverage. If an individual gets lost in a zone after leaving one field of view within that zone, then that coverage is severly lacking and needs to be addressed.

But for myself - I would be leary of parking garages, tho' the Barbary used to be good 20 years ago!

Again, Guady1 - my intent wasn't to debate anything you said but to add to it. That line of work isn't black & white. There's a lot of grey area that comes from many things and one of those things can be personal judgement calls, by security, on a situation.

Like in parking garage BJs.

I leave for wonderful Vegas Friday @ 8:20 pm. I should be in town by 11:30 local time. I will be traveling the the wife, but have already told her we WILL have some "alone" time. Im looking for some last min. travel tips.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Zippy

In the bar next the Syn Night Club in Riviera, a good looking and busty blonde is sitting by herself. When I checked her out, she looked at me as she was interested (I ain't no eye candy but any strench of imagination. I am more like an eye sore)! Unwilling to pay the price and I just got released by an AMP, I passed and move on. I would love to do her!!! She is still there!

130-230am:

Saw this younger blonde bouncing from a guy at a slot machine to some guy at the bar. Finally caught her eye and she nodded. She went back to the guy at the slot machine talked for a min. and landed with the guy at the bar. As they walked off, she looked back at me and shruged her sholders as to say "sorry". A min later the slot guy got up, shot me a look and followed the pair off. Oh well, so close.

I thought about flashing the blonde some cash, but I thought it would have been too obvious.

I also noticed that this blonde, another big titted brunette, and a couple other girls on the floor all were wearing this silver necklace with a heart on it. I also notice that there were a few guys at slot machine who didnt see to into the machine play. Maybe a trend or maybe a sign. Not sure, but I'll keep my eye out.

Around 1230.

Was walking around and past 2 girls, a blonde maybe a 6 and a brunette around a 8 playing at a machine. The brunette was talking with an onlder fella. She gave him her number and told him to call her later. I made eye contact with the blonde, but I didnt stay around. Didn't want it to look like these girls had a line.

I ran into them again at the slot machines just outside of the south tower head. As I walked by the brunette called me over. We chatted for a min. she told me 1500 for both of them for the hour. She told me that they had a room upstairs and that I could meet them there. Seeing that the brunette was cuter and more appealing I said 1000 for the night. The blonde told me that they were a pacage deal and it was their place or no place. At that point something just didnt set right. Told them not tonight then and walked off.

By the way these 2 looked, they seemed too clean, too young, and too non-local to know the ins and outs.

I know these two. They both used to be sw in Los Angeles, staying on Sunset Bl. at a motel across the street from where Denny's used to be...near Sunset and Gardner. I have seen them a few times at Aladdin. They are all about money...getting you in and out. At $300 for the pair, let alone $1000, you would consider them rob's.

I got lucky one night and got them both for $150 for what amounted to 20 minutes of fun until I finished. Next time I picked up the brunette only and she said she had a place. We went to that hotel, went in to the bathroom and I handed her $100 expecting sex. Didn't happen. Only CBJ and I never picked either up again.

Too bad the yahoo group for Los Angeles streetwalkers is no more. Their pics were posted there.

[QUOTE=Zippy2853]Around 1230.

Was walking around and past 2 girls, a blonde maybe a 6 and a brunette around a 8 playing at a machine. The brunette was talking with an onlder fella. She gave him her number and told him to call her later. I made eye contact with the blonde, but I didnt stay around. Didn't want it to look like these girls had a line.

I ran into them again at the slot machines just outside of the south tower head. As I walked by the brunette called me over. We chatted for a min. she told me 1500 for both of them for the hour. She told me that they had a room upstairs and that I could meet them there. Seeing that the brunette was cuter and more appealing I said 1000 for the night. The blonde told me that they were a pacage deal and it was their place or no place. At that point something just didnt set right. Told them not tonight then and walked off.

By the way these 2 looked, they seemed too clean, too young, and too non-local to know the ins and outs.[/QUOTE]

Stayed at the Palms for business. Action was extremely nice. Most of the time, CGs can be found between 1am - 5am either sitting at the bar as soon as you walk in or in the center bar. Donation for time starts off at 1k from the girls but all agreed for 300.

During the stay, hooked up with a very cute brunette girl, 9 out of 10. She must have been 22, 5ft 1, 90lbs. Around 4am in the morning, she agreed for 300.

Very nice girl, friendly, honest and trustworthy, BBBJ, CG, GREEK!!

Since the experience was rated high, Repeated again in the following night.

She did warn that usually 2 girls working together means trouble.

During another night, there were several girls sitting by the bar playing the video slots. Obviously, they were working girls. Most of them were 8++