Rants and Stupid shit in Hartford

The

[QUOTE=DowntownBoy;5170353]Your wrong dude. Respectfully dis agree. The coronavirus was created by an American man and a Chinese man in 1973. The people that created it have since died. But it was transferred over to a lab in the Wuhan China. Were it accidentally escaped. It is a real virus and extremely contagious and deadly. It's going to last for at least 100 years and the vaccines do not work. And have actually killed people but if you watch the fake news they will not tell you that. I just can't wait till all the NBA players start getting the vaccinations and start getting really sick. Because in the United States of America we only believe the celebrities and the sports stars. So once Kyrie Irving or LeBron James get sick from the vaccinations that's when people will realize it's extremely dangerous and it's not going to work.[/QUOTE].

The vaccine is worse than the stupid bug. I have the real anti bodies. I had this virus, no symptoms. Everyone I know who had it had basically a cold. As others have said, fake news has conditioned fear into the anti trumpers as a political tool. They don't even believe their own nonsense but so long as it hurt one political side they were willing to martyr themselves and a LOT of the economy.

Now that hiden Biden and duh-mala Harris are in office watch this thing disappear in a couple months cause of their great plans!

This entire pandemic was a sham and way to many overly bored people were way to willing to buy in to publish tik tok videos.

[QUOTE=TopGun9;5170618]Preach on brother!
Way too many people these days are incapable of doing some critical research, and spent too much time watching fakenews.
Covid19 is a flu variant that has been weaponized for political gains. Research a little further and you will find that it was a manufactured virus, in a lab. Shit, people even tried to put a patent on this virus years ago.
[URL]https://patents.justia.com/patent/10130701[/URL][/QUOTE]Funny that you talk about research when a simple google search will tell you that covid19 and the flu come from two separate viruses, meaning covid19 is NOT a flu variant. Also funny how you are downplaying the seriousness of a virus that in your mind you also believe has been manmade and weaponized! This is one thing I truly don't understand about you covid deniers. You'll say how China invented this virus to wreak havoc on the world and yet you'll refuse to take the most basic precautions against it like wearing a mask! In your own minds are you not letting China win??
As far as coronavirus being patented. You are aware that there have been other coronaviruses before covid19? Notably SARS and MERS in humans. Having done your own research you also realize that the coronavirus they are talking about in the article you linked was created to be a vaccine for other coronaviruses and is less contagious. Surely you read those parts? And surely you didn't miss this bit at the top of the freaking page:
"DISCLAIMER: Coronavirus is a broad name for a family of viruses. This patent is NOT for the new COVID-19 virus and The Pirbright Institute does not currently work with human coronaviruses. If you share this patent online, be aware you are in fact sharing a separate patent for avian infectious bronchitis virus and porcine delta-coronavirus. This is not a patent for the new COVID-19 virus. ".

[QUOTE=MadPlaid;5170745]The vaccine is worse than the stupid bug. I have the real anti bodies. I had this virus, no symptoms. Everyone I know who had it had basically a cold. As others have said, fake news has conditioned fear into the anti trumpers as a political tool. They don't even believe their own nonsense but so long as it hurt one political side they were willing to martyr themselves and a LOT of the economy.
Now that hiden Biden and duh-mala Harris are in office watch this thing disappear in a couple months cause of their great plans!

This entire pandemic was a sham and way to many overly bored people were way to willing to buy in to publish tik tok videos.[/QUOTE]I'm glad that you and everyone you know that has had coronavirus only had mild symptoms. But the fact is there are 400 k people dead from it and many many more have been hospitalized. You can track ICU capacity yourself on covidactnow.

There is no evidence that the vaccine is worse than the bug. Out of the approximately 25 mil people that caught coronavirus, 400 k died. That's a mortality rate of 1. 6% to date. I have not heard of the vaccine having any such mortality rate. Outside of a handful of cases I have not heard of the vaccine causing mass hospitalizations. The idea that the vaccine is worse than the bug is just plain WRONG.

If the virus does indeed disappear in a couple months it will be due to effective governance of the new administration and the roll out of mass vaccinations, not because it was some political hit-job and destined to disappear anyways. We have seen what happens when we just allow it to run rampant through the population. Trump was wrong when he said it would be gone in a few weeks early last year. And his unwillingness to put policies in place that safeguard our public health and politicizing such simple measures as wearing a mask, meant that their own initial estimates of 60-70 k deaths, then later 100-200 k deaths were wildly off, and by the time this is done we will have more than doubled (we have already doubled) the Trump administrations own worst estimates due to his administrations inaction. If this virus has made one political party look bad it's completely due to stances they took in the face of a global pandemic.

[QUOTE=HolaDoug;5170931]Funny that you talk about research when a simple google search will tell you that covid19 and the flu come from two separate viruses, meaning covid19 is NOT a flu variant. Also funny how you are downplaying the seriousness of a virus that in your mind you also believe has been manmade and weaponized! This is one thing I truly don't understand about you covid deniers. You'll say how China invented this virus to wreak havoc on the world and yet you'll refuse to take the most basic precautions against it like wearing a mask! In your own minds are you not letting China win??
As far as coronavirus being patented. You are aware that there have been other coronaviruses before covid19? Notably SARS and MERS in humans. Having done your own research you also realize that the coronavirus they are talking about in the article you linked was created to be a vaccine for other coronaviruses and is less contagious. Surely you read those parts? And surely you didn't miss this bit at the top of the freaking page:
"DISCLAIMER: Coronavirus is a broad name for a family of viruses. This patent is NOT for the new COVID-19 virus and The Pirbright Institute does not currently work with human coronaviruses. If you share this patent online, be aware you are in fact sharing a separate patent for avian infectious bronchitis virus and porcine delta-coronavirus. This is not a patent for the new COVID-19 virus. ".

I'm glad that you and everyone you know that has had coronavirus only had mild symptoms. But the fact is there are 400 k people dead from it and many many more have been hospitalized. You can track ICU capacity yourself on covidactnow.

There is no evidence that the vaccine is worse than the bug. Out of the approximately 25 mil people that caught coronavirus, 400 k died. That's a mortality rate of 1. 6% to date. I have not heard of the vaccine having any such mortality rate. Outside of a handful of cases I have not heard of the vaccine causing mass hospitalizations. The idea that the vaccine is worse than the bug is just plain WRONG.

If the virus does indeed disappear in a couple months it will be due to effective governance of the new administration and the roll out of mass vaccinations, not because it was some political hit-job and destined to disappear anyways. We have seen what happens when we just allow it to run rampant through the population. Trump was wrong when he said it would be gone in a few weeks early last year. And his unwillingness to put policies in place that safeguard our public health and politicizing such simple measures as wearing a mask, meant that their own initial estimates of 60-70 k deaths, then later 100-200 k deaths were wildly off, and by the time this is done we will have more than doubled (we have already doubled) the Trump administrations own worst estimates due to his administrations inaction. If this virus has made one political party look bad it's completely due to stances they took in the face of a global pandemic.[/QUOTE]A sincere thank you for taking the time to put together a rational and higher level analysis of some of the data presented that was skewed by some into downplaying the seriousness of this.

[QUOTE=HolaDoug;5170437]Oh boy Admin2, here you go again. I corrected your numbers last time and here I will correct them again.

"Just under 3,000,000 people died in the US last year from all causes which is about 100,000 more than died in the three years previously. ".

As per the link you posted, just over 3. 25 million died in the US from all causes. The previous years average numbers of deaths was 2. 8 million as you pointed out last time you posted. I would also like to point out the last time you posted on this you said something like "Covid is only a thing if excess deaths are greater than 2. 8 mil", a sentiment I personally disagree with, but anyways. We are 425 k over that number. According to your own words, covid is officially "a thing".

As for your other argument only 24 k dying from covid alone. I'm not going to bother looking at the numbers for that because it's quite pointless. We've known from almost the beginning that having a preexisting condition can turn covid into a lethal illness. As you point out being overweight is one of those conditions. The CDC reports that 42.5% of adults over 20 are obese, 73.6% are overweight. Hypertension is also on your list, which also comes with being overweight / obese, also a common problem among Americans. Diabetes is also on that list which CDC reports 10.5% of the US population has and generally comes with being overweight and having high blood pressure. The fact is, Americans as a whole are not exactly the most healthy of people, which is why we are now losing around 2-4 k people a day due to covid.

"The fact is 93% of the people who have died with covid were over 55 and 96% of them had an average of nearly 3 of these illnesses or conditions. ".

First of all, so what? Are you trying to say their lives are less valuable because they are over 55? The average life expectancy in the USA is something like 75 years. I don't really understand this argument. I see people indirectly reference their age on this board quite frequently, often mentioning how they've been "in this game" for 20,30, 40 years. That probably puts a lot of people on this board in the 50+ older category assuming they started mongering sometime in their 20's. And even if they're younger, this is a contagious disease we're talking about. It's not just you at risk, it's everyone who you may interact with in your day to day lives should you catch this.

Second of all "an average of nearly 3". Which 1 suggests its statistically less than 3. So between 2 and 3 conditions. And it's an average, which means in plenty of cases it could be only 1. And then there's how you like to conflate your numbers. So really who the fuck knows what you mean by "an average of nearly 3".

Right now, according to covidactnow, there is only one state in the USA that is using less than 50% of its ICU capacity. About half of them are at greater than 70%. Before the pandemic hit you did not see ICUs filled to this capacity.

If you want to start talking of people dying worldwide due to starvation, first of all. That's 10 mil people theoretically dying of starvation IF governments don't offer aid. To date, worldwide, there has been just over 2 million deaths due to covid. That number is not theoretical, and it is likely much higher unless you believe all those 2nd and 3rd world countries actually have the capability of tracking deaths due to covid.

And finally, in the year covid has been around, it is already the third leading cause of death in the USA.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Stickman55;5171116]A sincere thank you for taking the time to put together a rational and higher level analysis of some of the data presented that was skewed by some into downplaying the seriousness of this.[/QUOTE]I couldn't agree more. Kudos HolaDoug for deeper dive into the "how" and "what". I didn't expect to see a spot on analysis of a global pandemic while cruising for sluts to slay, but here I am.

Numbers and data still need to be interpreted, and I think many of those who are dismissing this as "not serious" are missing that.

"There are Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics. ".

[QUOTE=HolaDoug;5170437]Oh boy Admin2, here you go again. I corrected your numbers last time and here I will correct them again.

"Just under 3,000,000 people died in the US last year from all causes which is about 100,000 more than died in the three years previously. ".

As per the link you posted, just over 3. 25 million died in the US from all causes. The previous years average numbers of deaths was 2. 8 million as you pointed out last time you posted. I would also like to point out the last time you posted on this you said something like "Covid is only a thing if excess deaths are greater than 2. 8 mil", a sentiment I personally disagree with, but anyways. We are 425 k over that number. According to your own words, covid is officially "a thing".

As for your other argument only 24 k dying from covid alone. I'm not going to bother looking at the numbers for that because it's quite pointless. We've known from almost the beginning that having a preexisting condition can turn covid into a lethal illness. As you point out being overweight is one of those conditions. The CDC reports that 42.5% of adults over 20 are obese, 73.6% are overweight. Hypertension is also on your list, which also comes with being overweight / obese, also a common problem among Americans. Diabetes is also on that list which CDC reports 10.5% of the US population has and generally comes with being overweight and having high blood pressure. The fact is, Americans as a whole are not exactly the most healthy of people, which is why we are now losing around 2-4 k people a day due to covid.

"The fact is 93% of the people who have died with covid were over 55 and 96% of them had an average of nearly 3 of these illnesses or conditions. ".

First of all, so what? Are you trying to say their lives are less valuable because they are over 55? The average life expectancy in the USA is something like 75 years. I don't really understand this argument. I see people indirectly reference their age on this board quite frequently, often mentioning how they've been "in this game" for 20,30, 40 years. That probably puts a lot of people on this board in the 50+ older category assuming they started mongering sometime in their 20's. And even if they're younger, this is a contagious disease we're talking about. It's not just you at risk, it's everyone who you may interact with in your day to day lives should you catch this.

Second of all "an average of nearly 3". Which 1 suggests its statistically less than 3. So between 2 and 3 conditions. And it's an average, which means in plenty of cases it could be only 1. And then there's how you like to conflate your numbers. So really who the fuck knows what you mean by "an average of nearly 3".

Right now, according to covidactnow, there is only one state in the USA that is using less than 50% of its ICU capacity. About half of them are at greater than 70%. Before the pandemic hit you did not see ICUs filled to this capacity.

If you want to start talking of people dying worldwide due to starvation, first of all. That's 10 mil people theoretically dying of starvation IF governments don't offer aid. To date, worldwide, there has been just over 2 million deaths due to covid. That number is not theoretical, and it is likely much higher unless you believe all those 2nd and 3rd world countries actually have the capability of tracking deaths due to covid.

And finally, in the year covid has been around, it is already the third leading cause of death in the USA.[/QUOTE]Not saying older pre existing persons are not worth saving. First of all the majority are much older than 55. Second, just saying that we don't shut the entire economy down because older fat people with pre existing conditions will get less exposure. We could have easily put the most vulnerable under quarantine and let the rest of us get the virus. Might even be on the way to heard immunity by now. I had covid with not much of a problem. I am over 55 and know plenty of others my age that breezed right through their covid illness also.

[QUOTE=HolaDoug;5170931]Funny that you talk about research when a simple google search will tell you that covid19 and the flu come from two separate viruses, meaning covid19 is NOT a flu variant. Also funny how you are downplaying the seriousness of a virus that in your mind you also believe has been manmade and weaponized! This is one thing I truly don't understand about you covid deniers. You'll say how China invented this virus to wreak havoc on the world and yet you'll refuse to take the most basic precautions against it like wearing a mask! In your own minds are you not letting China win??
As far as coronavirus being patented. You are aware that there have been other coronaviruses before covid19? Notably SARS and MERS in humans. Having done your own research you also realize that the coronavirus they are talking about in the article you linked was created to be a vaccine for other coronaviruses and is less contagious. Surely you read those parts? And surely you didn't miss this bit at the top of the freaking page:
"DISCLAIMER: Coronavirus is a broad name for a family of viruses. This patent is NOT for the new COVID-19 virus and The Pirbright Institute does not currently work with human coronaviruses. If you share this patent online, be aware you are in fact sharing a separate patent for avian infectious bronchitis virus and porcine delta-coronavirus. This is not a patent for the new COVID-19 virus. ".

I'm glad that you and everyone you know that has had coronavirus only had mild symptoms. But the fact is there are 400 k people dead from it and many many more have been hospitalized. You can track ICU capacity yourself on covidactnow.[/QUOTE]From the CDC: : "COVID-19 deaths are identified using a new ICD–10 code. When COVID-19 is reported as a cause of death – or when it is listed as a "probable" or "presumed" cause — the death is coded as U07.1. This can include cases with or without laboratory confirmation. " [URL]https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm[/URL].

[QUOTE=Admin2;5169963]Idiots like you are killing people in the third world because your fear mongering is making politicians think they need to do something.

Just under 3,000,000 people died in the US last year from all causes which is about 100,000 more than died in the three years previously. You can call the 400,000 deaths WITH covid as covid deaths if you wish but according to the CDC of that 400,000 only 24,000 died from covid and covid alone.

"For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2. 9 additional conditions or causes per death. ".

Don't take my word for it, it's right here in the comorbidities section just read it.

[URL]https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm[/URL]

I'm sorry to anybody who lost people I honestly am but please save the "my uncles, cousins ex girlfriend knew a guy who used to go to a bar where there was a guy who used to work with another guy who was perfectly healthy. ".

The FACT is 93% of the people who have died WITH covid were over 55 and 96% of them had an average of nearly 3 of these illnesses or conditions.

Cancer.

Chronic kidney disease.

COPD (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease).

Down Syndrome.

Heart conditions, such as heart failure, coronary artery disease, or cardiomyopathies.

Immunocompromised state (weakened immune system) from solid organ transplant.

Obesity (body mass index BMI of 30 kg / m2 or higher but < 40 kg / m2).

Severe Obesity (BMI ≥ 40 kg / m2).

Pregnancy.

Sickle cell disease.

Smoking.

Type 2 diabetes mellitus.

Asthma (moderate-to-severe).

Cerebrovascular disease (affects blood vessels and blood supply to the brain).

Cystic fibrosis.

Hypertension or high blood pressure.

Immunocompromised state (weakened immune system) from blood or bone marrow transplant, immune deficiencies, HIV, use of corticosteroids, or use of other immune weakening medicines.

Neurologic conditions, such as dementia.

Liver disease.

Overweight (BMI 25 kg / m2, but < 30 kg / m2).

Pulmonary fibrosis (having damaged or scarred lung tissues).

Thalassemia (a type of blood disorder).

Type 1 diabetes mellitus.

Again this is from the CDC it's not from Breitbart or Zerohedge, it's not QAnon, it's from the CDC.

I have restricted you from making covid comments because I won't allow you to use this forum to spread disinformation that so far has been used to destroy the lives of over 5% of the worlds population.

[URL]https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/09/coronavirus-could-push-half-a-billion-people-into-poverty-globally.html[/URL]

And the hysteria that people like you are causing is going to be directly responsible for killing at least 10,000,000 people in 2021 who didn't have to die.

[URL]https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/05/05/850470436/u-n-warns-number-of-people-starving-to-death-could-double-amid-pandemic[/URL]

A2.

A2.[/QUOTE]When it first hit last year, I told friends that if you don't believe in the Darwin effect, Covid seems to hurt those who aren't strong enough to survive. The CDC numbers seem to bear that out.

This might get double posted because my computers being buggy but anyways:

[QUOTE=OfficeHo;5171408]Not saying older pre existing persons are not worth saving. First of all the majority are much older than 55. Second, just saying that we don't shut the entire economy down because older fat people with pre existing conditions will get less exposure. We could have easily put the most vulnerable under quarantine and let the rest of us get the virus. Might even be on the way to heard immunity by now. I had covid with not much of a problem. I am over 55 and know plenty of others my age that breezed right through their covid illness also.[/QUOTE]I've decided not to address the political aspects of your post because we've all had enough of that shit these past few months. Instead I'm going to focus on the idea of herd immunity.

We are getting more infections per day and MORE deaths per day than any time during this pandemic. There are 25 million total cases reported and hospitals are reaching the point where they are having trouble keeping up. Again look at covidactnow and you can monitor hospitals ICU capactiy. To reach herd immunity health experts say you need 70% of the population to get and recover from the virus. The population of the USA is 328 million people. That's 229,600,000 that need to become infected and recover before we reach herd immunity. At 1. 6% rate of death we have experienced to date that's 3,673,600 people that will die to get there. We added about 180 k new cases yesterday according to the CDC. In order for us to reach herd immunity at this rate it will take roughly 1130 days or another 3. 1 years to get there. This is taking into account the 25 million that have already been infected. We are not on our way to herd immunity.

Also as for you being 55 and breezing right through it, great. The majority of people will. But 1. 6% obviously didn't, and a larger percent needed medical intervention to survive. When you are dealing with large numbers 1. 6% adds up, as we have seen. It taxes our hospital systems which leads to more deaths from more causes. Your personal experience doesn't matter. This is something a lot of people don't understand. You have to examine the data and look at this scientifically because we are dealing with very large numbers. As Admin2 basically said your " uncles, cousins ex girlfriend knew a guy who used to go to a bar where there was a guy who used to work with another guy who was perfectly healthy" doesn't matter, and neither do you.

[QUOTE=ConnecticutGuy;5171487]From the CDC: : "COVID-19 deaths are identified using a new ICD10 code. When COVID-19 is reported as a cause of death or when it is listed as a "probable" or "presumed" cause the death is coded as U07.1. This can include cases with or without laboratory confirmation. " [URL]https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm[/URL].[/QUOTE]Listen, this argument is just stupid. Doctors aren't stupid. They aren't putting COVID-19 on the death certificate without warrant. Do this yourself because I'm not going to spoon-feed this to you guys this time, it's very easy to figure out. Type this into google: "number of deaths per year USA" and then add the year at the end. You can see for yourself how many deaths there were that year in the top result. As the link Admin2 posted shows we had 3. 25 million deaths in 2020. In 2017-2019 we had around 2. 8 million deaths. You'll see a somewhat steady rise in deaths which is to be expected in a growing population. But you don't see a jump of 400 k deaths anywhere along the line. So please, what is the reason for the 400 k excess deaths in 2020?

[QUOTE=OfficeHo;5171408]Not saying older pre existing persons are not worth saving. First of all the majority are much older than 55. Second, just saying that we don't shut the entire economy down because older fat people with pre existing conditions will get less exposure. We could have easily put the most vulnerable under quarantine and let the rest of us get the virus. Might even be on the way to heard immunity by now. I had covid with not much of a problem. I am over 55 and know plenty of others my age that breezed right through their covid illness also.[/QUOTE]I've known 12 who died of it. Glad you made it out ok.

[QUOTE=HolaDoug;5171710]This might get double posted because my computers being buggy but anyways:

I've decided not to address the political aspects of your post because we've all had enough of that shit these past few months. Instead I'm going to focus on the idea of herd immunity.

We are getting more infections per day and MORE deaths per day than any time during this pandemic. There are 25 million total cases reported and hospitals are reaching the point where they are having trouble keeping up. Again look at covidactnow and you can monitor hospitals ICU capactiy. To reach herd immunity health experts say you need 70% of the population to get and recover from the virus. The population of the USA is 328 million people. That's 229,600,000 that need to become infected and recover before we reach herd immunity. At 1. 6% rate of death we have experienced to date that's 3,673,600 people that will die to get there. We added about 180 k new cases yesterday according to the CDC. In order for us to reach herd immunity at this rate it will take roughly 1130 days or another 3. 1 years to get there. This is taking into account the 25 million that have already been infected. We are not on our way to herd immunity.

Also as for you being 55 and breezing right through it, great. The majority of people will. But 1. 6% obviously didn't, and a larger percent needed medical intervention to survive. When you are dealing with large numbers 1. 6% adds up, as we have seen. It taxes our hospital systems which leads to more deaths from more causes. Your personal experience doesn't matter. This is something a lot of people don't understand. You have to examine the data and look at this scientifically because we are dealing with very large numbers. As Admin2 basically said your " uncles, cousins ex girlfriend knew a guy who used to go to a bar where there was a guy who used to work with another guy who was perfectly healthy" doesn't matter, and neither do you.

Listen, this argument is just stupid. Doctors aren't stupid. They aren't putting COVID-19 on the death certificate without warrant. Do this yourself because I'm not going to spoon-feed this to you guys this time, it's very easy to figure out. Type this into google: "number of deaths per year USA" and then add the year at the end. You can see for yourself how many deaths there were that year in the top result. As the link Admin2 posted shows we had 3. 25 million deaths in 2020. In 2017-2019 we had around 2. 8 million deaths. You'll see a somewhat steady rise in deaths which is to be expected in a growing population. But you don't see a jump of 400 k deaths anywhere along the line. So please, what is the reason for the 400 k excess deaths in 2020?[/QUOTE]Not sure why you brought up politics? I have mentioned it and could care less about it. Rates you have mentioned are only valid if all things are equal. What I said was very straight forward. Quarantine all older people and let the rest of us get it. The rate would increase dramatically. We would not have to shut down. And we would still have the vaccine by now. So it would not take 3 years.

[QUOTE=OfficeHo;5172277]Not sure why you brought up politics? I have mentioned it and could care less about it. Rates you have mentioned are only valid if all things are equal. What I said was very straight forward. Quarantine all older people and let the rest of us get it. The rate would increase dramatically. We would not have to shut down. And we would still have the vaccine by now. So it would not take 3 years.[/QUOTE]When you start talking solutions, things get political. The past year is evidence of that. You offer up this solution of just quarantining old people as if it were easy. If it's so easy how come it hasn't been done? How come a year after this pandemic has started only half-assed, uncoordinated attempts have been made to get this virus under control?

If you want to offer up a counter argument it's your turn to crunch some numbers, otherwise you are just talking out of your ass. The majority of deaths are old people, that doesn't negate the percentage of young people or middle aged people that die or are hospitalised from this virus. As I said before, when you're dealing with millions of cases things add up. People will still be hospitalised and people will still be dying.

I don't know why you think the rate of infection would increase dramatically in your scenario. People are basically doing what they want to right now, there are no stay at home orders. I read that this outbreak has possibly peaked, the rate of people being infected is likely to start slowing down.

Yes the vaccine will speed things up. There is still the question of if enough people are willing to get it and how effectively it is rolled out. There's one guy that commented earlier that said the vaccine is worse than the virus. How many share his sentiment and won't get vaccinated? Only something like 60% of people polled said they are willing to be vaccinated. That will make a huge impact once they are but it is not enough for herd immunity according to health experts.

Another note on herd immunity. It does not eradicate the virus. It just protects people who are more vulnerable. The virus will still be out there and vulnerable populations will still get it. When you start reintroducing old people to society, what happens then? The vaccine isn't 100% effective and the amount of people willing to get vaccinated is not ideal.

This is starting to get too hypothetical and I'm pretty hopeful that things are about to get a lot better with the vaccine. We still need to take this seriously in the meantime however. I initially responded to counter the misinformation being posted and that has been done. I'm no longer super interested carrying on. Later dudes.

[QUOTE=HolaDoug;5170437]Oh boy Admin2, here you go again. I corrected your numbers last time and here I will correct them again.

"Just under 3,000,000 people died in the US last year from all causes which is about 100,000 more than died in the three years previously. ".

As per the link you posted, just over 3. 25 million died in the US from all causes. The previous years average numbers of deaths was 2. 8 million as you pointed out last time you posted. I would also like to point out the last time you posted on this you said something like "Covid is only a thing if excess deaths are greater than 2. 8 mil", a sentiment I personally disagree with, but anyways. We are 425 k over that number. According to your own words, covid is officially "a thing".

As for your other argument only 24 k dying from covid alone. I'm not going to bother looking at the numbers for that because it's quite pointless. We've known from almost the beginning that having a preexisting condition can turn covid into a lethal illness. As you point out being overweight is one of those conditions. The CDC reports that 42.5% of adults over 20 are obese, 73.6% are overweight. Hypertension is also on your list, which also comes with being overweight / obese, also a common problem among Americans. Diabetes is also on that list which CDC reports 10.5% of the US population has and generally comes with being overweight and having high blood pressure. The fact is, Americans as a whole are not exactly the most healthy of people, which is why we are now losing around 2-4 k people a day due to covid.

"The fact is 93% of the people who have died with covid were over 55 and 96% of them had an average of nearly 3 of these illnesses or conditions. ".

First of all, so what? Are you trying to say their lives are less valuable because they are over 55? The average life expectancy in the USA is something like 75 years. I don't really understand this argument. I see people indirectly reference their age on this board quite frequently, often mentioning how they've been "in this game" for 20,30, 40 years. That probably puts a lot of people on this board in the 50+ older category assuming they started mongering sometime in their 20's. And even if they're younger, this is a contagious disease we're talking about. It's not just you at risk, it's everyone who you may interact with in your day to day lives should you catch this.

Second of all "an average of nearly 3". Which 1 suggests its statistically less than 3. So between 2 and 3 conditions. And it's an average, which means in plenty of cases it could be only 1. And then there's how you like to conflate your numbers. So really who the fuck knows what you mean by "an average of nearly 3".

Right now, according to covidactnow, there is only one state in the USA that is using less than 50% of its ICU capacity. About half of them are at greater than 70%. Before the pandemic hit you did not see ICUs filled to this capacity.

If you want to start talking of people dying worldwide due to starvation, first of all. That's 10 mil people theoretically dying of starvation IF governments don't offer aid. To date, worldwide, there has been just over 2 million deaths due to covid. That number is not theoretical, and it is likely much higher unless you believe all those 2nd and 3rd world countries actually have the capability of tracking deaths due to covid.

And finally, in the year covid has been around, it is already the third leading cause of death in the USA.[/QUOTE]So glad this thread is where it belongs, it was becoming annoying. The arguing about being right and making someone else wrong is a bit much. Can't someone look at things differently than you? Everything on the internet is not necessarily true, including statistics, and a good lawyer can make even good statistics look bad. There's enough unknown factors in this whole thing to make anyone ight or even everyone wrong. If someone has a different opinion they don't need to be belittled or accuse them of view points they never expressed.

Blue.

[QUOTE=Admin2;5172645]Just under 3 million. And no, it's not maybe 10 million if governments don't get together, it's 10,000,000 projected to die end of. I know you need to minimize that number in order to sleep well but it was 10,000,000 projected to die and 400,000,000 forced into extreme starvation for your 400,000 deaths WITH covid. End of. Write something else, I don't care, you're wrong and history will prove you wrong, this is the biggest exercise of privilege the world has ever seen. By the time you are done there will be 40 or 60 million dead from poverty because rich white people got scared.

I live in the third world, I'm seeing it on my front porch. Sorry, you're a fool who's killing kids every time you start typing, but they are poor brown kids so who cares.[/QUOTE]You can say no, but the numbers are right there. Sorry dude, you're wrong. Do I need to take a screenshot? It's 3,264,627. Anyone that wants to see the truth can go look for themselves.

[URL]https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm[/URL] - Scroll down to Table 1 - Click "Yearly".

Perhaps you are thinking of this in November? [URL]https://www.factcheck.org/2020/11/meme-distorts-facts-on-annual-death-statistics/[/URL].

"The number of deaths cited for 2020 — 2,487,350, as of Nov. 16 — was taken that day from a table published by the CDC's National Center for Health Statistics.

The table, however, only accounted for deaths from Feb. 1 through Nov. 14, so it doesn't include any deaths that occurred in January 2020 — or, of course, any that will occur in the final weeks of the year. ".

BTW this is very similar to what I corrected you on last time this came up.

I may respond to your other points later, but I thought it was important to correct this right now.

[QUOTE=BlueFox141;5172540]So glad this thread is where it belongs, it was becoming annoying. The arguing about being right and making someone else wrong is a bit much. Can't someone look at things differently than you? Everything on the internet is not necessarily true, including statistics, and a good lawyer can make even good statistics look bad. There's enough unknown factors in this whole thing to make anyone ight or even everyone wrong. If someone has a different opinion they don't need to be belittled or accuse them of view points they never expressed.

Blue.[/QUOTE]Listen dude, I'm tired of it too. The amount of disinformation out there is ridiculous, but it needs to be corrected when encountered or you get people believing a bunch of wild and demonstrably wrong bullshit. If someone presents some obviously wrong information as truth with an article that doesn't even back up their story as TopGun did, it needs to be called out immediately. Because people might take his misinformation as truth without following his links and form factually wrong and damaging views based on that information. If factual data is dishonestly represented it needs to be called out. This isn't about someone looking at things differently, it's about facts being facts. No not everything on the internet is necessarily true, but most of the data I put forth comes from the CDC's own website. Are you saying the United States Center for Disease Control and Prevention are publishing information that is "not necessarily true" and unreliable? Come on dude.

I agree, there are PLENTY of unknowns in this current situation we are in, that is precisely why it is vitally important to form your opinions based on the best facts that are available.

[QUOTE=HolaDoug;5172379]When you start talking solutions, things get political. The past year is evidence of that. You offer up this solution of just quarantining old people as if it were easy. If it's so easy how come it hasn't been done? How come a year after this pandemic has started only half-assed, uncoordinated attempts have been made to get this virus under control?

If you want to offer up a counter argument it's your turn to crunch some numbers, otherwise you are just talking out of your ass. The majority of deaths are old people, that doesn't negate the percentage of young people or middle aged people that die or are hospitalised from this virus. As I said before, when you're dealing with millions of cases things add up. People will still be hospitalised and people will still be dying.

I don't know why you think the rate of infection would increase dramatically in your scenario. People are basically doing what they want to right now, there are no stay at home orders. I read that this outbreak has possibly peaked, the rate of people being infected is likely to start slowing down.

Yes the vaccine will speed things up. There is still the question of if enough people are willing to get it and how effectively it is rolled out. There's one guy that commented earlier that said the vaccine is worse than the virus. How many share his sentiment and won't get vaccinated? Only something like 60% of people polled said they are willing to be vaccinated. That will make a huge impact once they are but it is not enough for herd immunity according to health experts.

Another note on herd immunity. It does not eradicate the virus. It just protects people who are more vulnerable. The virus will still be out there and vulnerable populations will still get it. When you start reintroducing old people to society, what happens then? The vaccine isn't 100% effective and the amount of people willing to get vaccinated is not ideal.

This is starting to get too hypothetical and I'm pretty hopeful that things are about to get a lot better with the vaccine. We still need to take this seriously in the meantime however. I initially responded to counter the misinformation being posted and that has been done. I'm no longer super interested carrying on. Later dudes.[/QUOTE]It is not " my turn" to do a damn thing. But it takes no number crunching to say that if we had only quarantined the older more vulnerable in the first place and did not lock down the rest of us. This would have passed through a lot more people that could have easily handled it and gotten the antibodies early on. And you ask. Why has no one tried it? Good question. Maybe it makes too much sense. . And as far a smaller percentage that still would have a problem with it? At what point is there acceptable loss to keep the world economy going. You are looking for a perfect world. I assume this from your paragraph about. What do we do about letting older folks out after the vaccine? Well? What do we do? Keep them hibernating forever? A percentage of folks die in car accidents every year. We accept the risk. Or in your world we ban all automobiles.