Sexual Addiction Reports

As I understand it, unbiased (heh ... already a loaded term; sorry) psychiatric observation suggests that those addicts (to alcohol or illicit drugs) who do accept into their lives a "higher power" and identify it strongly with a monotheistic God, are the ones who tend to be more likely to be able to recover from their addictions.

So, whether or not the "God" exists or not, is really beside the point. The AA point of view, as developed over the years (though distinct perhaps from the rather fundamentalist Protestant foundations), is (again, only as I understand it) that the relinquishing of some decision-making up to a higher power called "God" is essentially a necessary part of the equation. It's necessary NOT because the members of the group might or might not want you to share in their religious beliefs. Rather, it's necessary because without it recovery is very unlikely to happen, at least not by their methods.

I personally don't buy the idea of a "monotheistic God" and I'm not a member of any 12-step program. I certainly don't like the way that many 12-step programs designed for (what they perceive to be) sexual addiction, are generally extremely religion-based, more so than the mere "higher power" emphasis as I've described above for AA. Basically they think you can either be a monk or a sex addict.

For me, a "true" freedom from sex addiction would be, that I found sex to be more fulfilling if I undertook it with a partner whom I was "dating" and "respected" in a mutually supportive long-term relationship. I don't. The newer the partner to me, the better the sex. This doesn't mean (to me?) I'm "addicted to sex," but it does mean I spend a lot of time and energy, and a lot more money than I would wish, on getting new partners. People whom I have not previously banged.

I have read elsewhere that one tenet of the schizoid psychosis is that it lacks a true understanding of "feelings." People with different forms of certain psychopathic or sociopathic disorders simply feel stimuli and responses, as opposed to emotional states, and that they lack certain types of imaginative lives. I believe I am kind of like that. I don't really know what it is like to "be in love" or to "be disappointed." I don't have dreams and goals, at least not that I work toward in my imagination, and I don't really believe that my actions lead toward the attainment of goals. Especially as far as human relationships and sexuality go, all I have is beauty-to-boner responses (I see beauty, I get boner), and then stroking-to-orgasm responses (the beautiful woman administers to me by stroking the right parts of my skin in the right way while I do the same to her, I get orgasm). That doesn't "feel" like an emotional bond at all, and I'm flabbergasted that human females have some kind of "out of bounds" response, by which their act of coitus leads them to some emotional state. That's just plain old weird to me, and I kind of don't believe it. I think they're just indulging in the little-girl-Princess fantasy, when they say, "Oh, I feel so CLOSE to a man after we've had sex." I remember being a little-boy-Galahad and fantasizing about defeating dragons and being a hero, but I grew up and out of that false belief about myself. I wish the women in my life would also grow up, and recognize that sexual acts are at base simple biological drives, like eating and shitting.

But they won't. They insist on remaining in the child-like fantasy zone. This is fine for them, I don't mind if they ruin their lives or not. But it's not fine for me. I can't navigate their ineptitudes and childishness. I can't figure out how to make these childish humans (hot females) want to fuck me. So, I have to pay for it instead.

That means I'm sexually addicted? Well, I'm addicted to the act of paying for it, that's fer-sure.

I would LOVE to see the "research studies" SUPPORTING this "idea" that those who "adopt/believe in" some "HP" are somehow able to "better recover from an addiction" then those who do NOT have one! I have been working with alcoholics and drug addicts for 8 years now, and can count on one hand (3-to be exact!), the number of atheists/agnostic/lack-of-"spiritual" believing, alcoholics or drug addicts I have come across! Again, if "spirituality" had ANYTHING to do with an addictive disorder, a person that ALREADY HAS THAT "spirituality" should NEVER BECOME addicted to anything, as the "spirituality" would be mentally and pleasureably satisfying ENOUGH to keep an addiction to a liquid, solid, or even a multitude of orgasms, out of their lives!

Somehow "prayer" to a "HP", or "spirituality" acknowledgement, just doesn't seem to rise to the level of PLEASURE a person with an addiction desires/demands. This is probably why 12-Step programs DO NOT WORK! Praying vs. an orgasm? I'll take the orgasm! Praying vs. intoxication? I'll take the intoxication! Sexual "addiction" vs. life of "sexual sobriety" as defined by some 12-Step group?? Hell, I will take the "label", and then demand they prove it has legitimate, quantitative, and documented, SCIENTIFIC CRITERIA!

[QUOTE=Book Guy]As I understand it, unbiased (heh ... already a loaded term; sorry) psychiatric observation suggests that those addicts (to alcohol or illicit drugs) who do accept into their lives a "higher power" and identify it strongly with a monotheistic God, are the ones who tend to be more likely to be able to recover from their addictions.

So, whether or not the "God" exists or not, is really beside the point. The AA point of view, as developed over the years (though distinct perhaps from the rather fundamentalist Protestant foundations), is (again, only as I understand it) that the relinquishing of some decision-making up to a higher power called "God" is essentially a necessary part of the equation. It's necessary NOT because the members of the group might or might not want you to share in their religious beliefs. Rather, it's necessary because without it recovery is very unlikely to happen, at least not by their methods.

I personally don't buy the idea of a "monotheistic God" and I'm not a member of any 12-step program. I certainly don't like the way that many 12-step programs designed for (what they perceive to be) sexual addiction, are generally extremely religion-based, more so than the mere "higher power" emphasis as I've described above for AA. Basically they think you can either be a monk or a sex addict.

For me, a "true" freedom from sex addiction would be, that I found sex to be more fulfilling if I undertook it with a partner whom I was "dating" and "respected" in a mutually supportive long-term relationship. I don't. The newer the partner to me, the better the sex. This doesn't mean (to me?) I'm "addicted to sex," but it does mean I spend a lot of time and energy, and a lot more money than I would wish, on getting new partners. People whom I have not previously banged.

I have read elsewhere that one tenet of the schizoid psychosis is that it lacks a true understanding of "feelings." People with different forms of certain psychopathic or sociopathic disorders simply feel stimuli and responses, as opposed to emotional states, and that they lack certain types of imaginative lives. I believe I am kind of like that. I don't really know what it is like to "be in love" or to "be disappointed." I don't have dreams and goals, at least not that I work toward in my imagination, and I don't really believe that my actions lead toward the attainment of goals. Especially as far as human relationships and sexuality go, all I have is beauty-to-boner responses (I see beauty, I get boner), and then stroking-to-orgasm responses (the beautiful woman administers to me by stroking the right parts of my skin in the right way while I do the same to her, I get orgasm). That doesn't "feel" like an emotional bond at all, and I'm flabbergasted that human females have some kind of "out of bounds" response, by which their act of coitus leads them to some emotional state. That's just plain old weird to me, and I kind of don't believe it. I think they're just indulging in the little-girl-Princess fantasy, when they say, "Oh, I feel so CLOSE to a man after we've had sex." I remember being a little-boy-Galahad and fantasizing about defeating dragons and being a hero, but I grew up and out of that false belief about myself. I wish the women in my life would also grow up, and recognize that sexual acts are at base simple biological drives, like eating and shitting.

But they won't. They insist on remaining in the child-like fantasy zone. This is fine for them, I don't mind if they ruin their lives or not. But it's not fine for me. I can't navigate their ineptitudes and childishness. I can't figure out how to make these childish humans (hot females) want to fuck me. So, I have to pay for it instead.

That means I'm sexually addicted? Well, I'm addicted to the act of paying for it, that's fer-sure.[/QUOTE]

You're very unenlightened. There are lot's of studies that show 12-step groups greatly increase an addicts chance of recovery. Also you're quite wrong that a group defines sexual sobriety. In all groups except one, the addict defines their own sexual sobriety. Since most of your statements are false and misleading, I'll assume you just don't know what you're talking about.

Although not a 12-step program, Salvation Army is another spiritual program that deals with low-bottom, worst of the worst street alcoholics, and has a fairly high success rate also. There are hundreds of thousands of addicts that have recovered using spiritual/religious programs and the 12-steps. To say anything but is complete BS and you know it.

Praying vs. cruising around all night risking arrest, disease, getting my car seized to pay some crack ho 40 bucks for a 5-minute bj? Yeah, I'd gladly take prayer anyday. Most addicts would.

And there are studies out there if you look for them. The makers of the nicotine patch for example have followed groups of smokers using just the patch and those using the patch and attending nicotine anonymous groups and the second group has something like a 20% higher success rate in quiting smoking. Take virtually any hospitals quit smoking program and most have lists of support groups and encourage all attendees to go to them.

Drug Treatment Centers -Virtually everyone encourages 12-step meeting participation because their experience is that those who attend meetings stay clean more often than those who don't.

Physicians - every doctor I've ever had (when I was fighting alcoholism) recommended 12-step programs.

Therapists - Ditto.

Studies have shown that those who claim to believe in a higher power not only have a longer life expectancy, but also are happier.

And then there's RedNeck who thinks he knows everything because he has no room in his life for God or a higher power. Although it's clear he's never attended a meeting because of his false statements like the group deciding what sobriety is.

As for "unenlightenment"-NAME THE STUDIES! Let's see the CITATIONS! PROVE THEIR EXISTENCE (and that of your fairy-tale "god" for that matter!).
Let's see the criteria that any OBJECTIVE SOURCE used to prove that a "12-Step program" (which again, keeps NO RECORDS, AND NO NAMES!) is better then a non-12-Step program, or doing nothing! The idea that someone that CHOOSES to engage in a VOLUNTARY BEHAVIOR and call themselves "powerless" over an "addiction" is the worse abdication of individual responsibility, and in all likelihood shows the person should not be even breathing air! Whether the "addiction" is to nicotine, alcohol, sex, or the internet, let's see one objectively-researched example of where it is scientifically PROVEN! Just because a bunch of people, whether MD's, or Ph.D's say something "works", and it's been around for a long time-DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT DOES! (Is the Catholic Church proof that IT "works" because it's been around for 2,000 years, and has the most number of people in it-within Christianity?). The burden of proof is ON YOU! Let's see it.

[QUOTE=Civ2000]And there are studies out there if you look for them. The makers of the nicotine patch for example have followed groups of smokers using just the patch and those using the patch and attending nicotine anonymous groups and the second group has something like a 20% higher success rate in quiting smoking. Take virtually any hospitals quit smoking program and most have lists of support groups and encourage all attendees to go to them.

Drug Treatment Centers -Virtually everyone encourages 12-step meeting participation because their experience is that those who attend meetings stay clean more often than those who don't.

Physicians - every doctor I've ever had (when I was fighting alcoholism) recommended 12-step programs.

Therapists - Ditto.

Studies have shown that those who claim to believe in a higher power not only have a longer life expectancy, but also are happier.

And then there's RedNeck who thinks he knows everything because he has no room in his life for God or a higher power. Although it's clear he's never attended a meeting because of his false statements like the group deciding what sobriety is.[/QUOTE]

Redneck, you've made an obvious logical fallacy.

I said: 12-steppers say, "You're more likely to recover if you have faith in a higher power."
You responded: If that's true, then only agnostics would be addicts.

How idiotic can you be? How about Catholics who fail to recover? I didn't say that faith in a higher power was the ONLY thing necessary for recovery, nor did I say that recovery was guaranteed if you had faith in a higher power, nor did I say that lack of faith in a higher power mandated any form of addiction, nor did I say that lack of faith in a higher power mandated failure to recover. Further, I didn't even say that *I* believed in a higher power, or in its necessity for recovery; I said that OTHER PEOPLE report that idea. You're really too simple-minded to follow this discussion, if you genuinely believe that your response is germane to my points.

I find it hard to believe that you have EVER worked with addicts of any sort in North America or in the English-speaking world, if you claim that you've never seen reports about the faith-based success of things like AA and other 12-step programs. That's an old-hat true-ism, this idea that 12-step programs succeed when participants give up part of their decision-making capabilities to what they term "a higher power." It's a simple fact. "I've never seen studies" implies you aren't looking.

But I do agree with you, that the studies may be false. The connection between recovery and faith may be a false one, or a merely anecdotal one; or it may have something to do with having a supportive community, or having a straight-laced lifestyle with a censorious observing community, or it may just be a random statistical correlation without any causation to connect the two ideas, or it may even be that there's not even a statistical correlation.

But ya gotta admit, nearly everybody out there (just generalizing here) TALKS about AA and other 12-step programs as though a "main portion" of recovery includes faith in a higher power. It's standardly accepted as part of it all. This is nothing novel.

I don't advocate for or against faith, its connection to or disconnection from recovery, or for or against 12-step programs. I've experienced none of the above. I'm just trying to make the issues here clear. All I'm saying is, PEOPLE (generally) TEND TO THINK (in a general sort of way) that an effective 12-step program requires faith in a higher power, among a lot of other things, for recovery to be successful.

Redneck, I never mentioned a belief in God. Just because I believe a support group like AA helps lot's of people, for me the group is the higher power. Obviously you have serious issues with the idea of God and the mere mention makes you shut down the obvious that is all around you. Being closed-minded is not a recovery tool either.

I admit I don't like the word "powerlessness" when it comes to addiction either. But most don't understand that concept either. When I was fighting the bottle, I tried everything I could do on my own to quit and I could not. The addiction was bigger than I. So I would say I was powerless over the addiction. But I wasn't powerless over my recovery. It took treatment, meetings, counseling, calling people when I was tempted, etc., to give it up. Not just one thing, many.

My suggestion to you is the common tool of "investigate before making conclusions." Obviously you haven't been to a meeting because of all the false assumptions you make, like the group defining your sobriety. Go to a few and report back to us. I think you will find a group of guys, particularly in a group like AA that goes back a long ways, a lot of people with long-term and quality sobriety that had no luck before attending meetings. And then you can stand up and tell them that it's not working. If you do work with alcoholics and addicts you have a duty to check out ALL available resources. That is if you are any good at what you do.

Do you go to AA/NA/SA/GA, etc. meetings because you want to quit your addiction, or do you want to quit your addiction because you go to meetings?

The long-term success rates of these groups are single digits. Maybe those are the ones who would've quit anyway, group or no group. Sick and tired of being sick and tired.

(?)

Exactly! "Maturing out" of a behavior has probably more to do with quitting an "addiction" then all the "mental masturbation" of every self-help group (12-Step, or non-12-Step!) COMBINED! Ask a smoker for example! Any person who has permenantly smoking will tell you that it was an act of "spontaneity", with no "support group", sponsors, meetings, or steps involved. The will of an individual to STOP an activity will end it just as the will to NOT STOP an activity will keep it going. It is always a choice, pure and simple!

[QUOTE=Baltimonger]Do you go to AA/NA/SA/GA, etc. meetings because you want to quit your addiction, or do you want to quit your addiction because you go to meetings?

The long-term success rates of these groups are single digits. Maybe those are the ones who would've quit anyway, group or no group. Sick and tired of being sick and tired.

(?)[/QUOTE]

Ok I was an alcoholic, and a hobbyist, now just a hobbyist, at least I don't get into as much trouble as I used to, but I get a lot more pussy and know what I did, its kinda like fishing you got to bait your hook and troll, at mid 50's you just think about it much more and want it much more like a permanent bucket list. I found a lady on one of the swing sites that her husband allows her to fuck me it gets them all revved up, it works for everbody she says. We are human, and have hormones. Drinking has caused me a ton more problems thans sex has. I do think about sex a lot but its comes more natural now than it did years ago.

Good luck guys

I think we are all sex addicts. It is natural for a healthy man to want to get laid every day. Most women want it too.

All women want it. In fact, just from impressionistic investigation, subjectively, I'd have to say that women want sex and "need" and crave it, for their wellbeing, much more than men. And I think they get it more often, too. They're just better liars and manipulators with it, than we are.

[QUOTE=Tomkat4848]I think we are all sex addicts. It is natural for a healthy man to want to get laid every day. Most women want it too.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely it's natural for a man to want to get laid everyday. Is it natural for a man to go cruising for prostitutes ten minutes after he gets out of jail for patronizing a prostitute? Is it natural for a guy to pay for sex everyday, even though all his credit cards are maxed out and they are foreclosing on his home?

See you guys all make the mistake that wanting sex all the time equates to sexual addiction. It doesn't. Addiction is the continuation of a behavior despite wanting to stop and despite negative consequences. Just like drinking everyday, even drinking until one is quite drunk does not make one an alcoholic. The inability to control one's drinking and the inability to stop drinking despite the fact it's costing you employment and relationships etc., is what makes one an alcoholic.

[QUOTE=Book Guy]All women want it. ...[/QUOTE]I know one who definitely does NOT want it.

-------------------------------------------------

Fuck all women - the prime directive.

Well, I have a story to tell. The wife got into my gmail account due to a stupid move on my part and she found evidence of me with a couple of girls. To say the least the shit hit the fan. I am working on fixing this, mostly through admitting sexual addiction and going to counseling.

I am sure that I am an Eliot Spitzer type... doing it mostly for the thrill, not the sex. Anyway, I think I can salvage the relationship in the long term, but only because the stupid woman really loves me, though I no longer understand why.

So... keep your shit secure or pay the consequences.