"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=Josephr9999;4530532]We seemed to really click. [/QUOTE]A different take - She just got nicer and nicer given that you were spending tons of money (food etc.) and time on her without her having to put out for real. And as soon as she was in the position to put out, walla, anxiety attack and cannot do it. She telegraphed this end by negotiating ad nauseum. This was about getting cold hard cash from you, not being an SB.

She is the long play version of a scam, as I suspect she went home with the 175. If an SB is not able to commit to pussy access at the meet and greet (there is only one M&G by the way), I am out because the chances of her doing so later goes to nearly zero. Never experienced that myself, but having RTFF other seniors have made that clear. Sorry about the end, but it was predictable.

[QUOTE=HappyHunter44;4530564]

She is the long play version of a scam, as I suspect she went home with the 175. If an SB is not able to commit to pussy access at the meet and greet (there is only one M&G by the way), I am out because the chances of her doing so later goes to nearly zero. Never experienced that myself, but having RTFF other seniors have made that clear. Sorry about the end, but it was predictable.[/QUOTE]Nope, she did not go home with 175. She went home with nothing. I'm hardly new to the game. This one was a bit unique which was why I asked for opinions here last week on how to handle her knowing our allowance amount was different. I had made abundantly clear to her no allowance til the pussy flowed. She agreed to an overnight after the 3rd date, said we could get a hotel room too. The 4th date was a simple lunch is all. I don't think she's a scammer nor a rinser looking for free dinners. She knew the score and neither of us was new to the game, it became a little bit of cat and mouse with the amount. My home is outside of town, dead end road, looks like a man-cave. I think her anxiety just got to her and was overwhelmed. Shit, she was ripping her clothes off and was bare-ass naked like a freak with me going down on her and all of a sudden she flipped. Just not stable without meds I guess.

[QUOTE=HappyHunter44;4530564]A different take - She just got nicer and nicer given that you were spending tons of money (food etc.) and time on her without her having to put out for real. And as soon as she was in the position to put out, walla, anxiety attack and cannot do it. She telegraphed this end by negotiating ad nauseum. This was about getting cold hard cash from you, not being an SB.

She is the long play version of a scam, as I suspect she went home with the 175. If an SB is not able to commit to pussy access at the meet and greet (there is only one M&G by the way), I am out because the chances of her doing so later goes to nearly zero. Never experienced that myself, but having RTFF other seniors have made that clear. Sorry about the end, but it was predictable.[/QUOTE]I came to a similar conclusion; reading about the negotiation of back and forth I thought that she would never agree to anything.

Without judging the approach, I don't talk about trips, vacations, etc. To any female of the age which I desire; they either have not enough time, or are not that interested in my company, or they would prefer to go someplace I would not, e. G. DisneyWorld in Orlando.

If the "baby" is not that interested in my company, that's OK; they like cash. "You've won a trip worth $1000!" (The Price is Right) would interest few girls I have known that are broke and like the idea of being paid for paying attention to my dick.

My severely limited "baby" experience in S. Florida indicated to me that the time available to spend with me was fleeting and so I had to make the best of it, and so did she (cash).

My "baby" went once out of town with me on a little "road trip" and she didn't want to linger in the town, just get back. At least I got some action for the motel rent which was fine.

They want cash, clothes, shoes, bills paid, and don't even care about eating out usually.

I have noticed from the 2 "babies" I hung around in S. Florida that all have expectations which are unrealistic but that's OK; so do I maybe.

The two babies both approached me and I did not pursue them; I didn't text them to talk about anything because I didn't know if they would use the text against me in some way. I said "talk to me on the phone or in person. ".

The man is the prize; your money is the gold inside the prize package. If they don't seem that interested in pursuing the meet with you, it's unlikely to be satisfactory to either.

[QUOTE=Josephr9999;4530753]Nope, she did not go home with 175. She went home with nothing. I'm hardly new to the game. This one was a bit unique which was why I asked for opinions here last week on how to handle her knowing our allowance amount was different. I had made abundantly clear to her no allowance til the pussy flowed. She agreed to an overnight after the 3rd date, said we could get a hotel room too. The 4th date was a simple lunch is all. I don't think she's a scammer nor a rinser looking for free dinners. She knew the score and neither of us was new to the game, it became a little bit of cat and mouse with the amount. My home is outside of town, dead end road, looks like a man-cave. I think her anxiety just got to her and was overwhelmed. Shit, she was ripping her clothes off and was bare-ass naked like a freak with me going down on her and all of a sudden she flipped. Just not stable without meds I guess.[/QUOTE]Glad to hear that she left with nothing. However, notice the outcome. She never put out, yet you still spent some $400+ on her already. All the clothes off and stuff really means nothing, as she nipped everything in the bud last minute because she was never going through with it. All the rest is show.

Her hope was that you would feel sorry for her and cave, thereby giving her the 175 even though you got zero pussy. Of course she would think that given you already spent over $400 without getting into her pants. I highly suspect the clothes off part etc. was not part of the plan and she got in over her head. Explains the texting to a "friend" also. The friend was directing the show / running cover and she lost control.

Sticking to your guns and not parting with the money were good moves. Do not be fooled by the theatrics. I suspect you will not hear from her because the game is up. If she really wanted to be an SB, she knows where a consistent 175 is waiting for her. But alas, she would have to actually put out for that and that is not part of her plan. If she is a real SB, she would take her anti-anxiety medicine, calm down, and then come back. I would be surprised if that happened.

[QUOTE=HappyHunter44;4530978]Glad to hear that she left with nothing. However, notice the outcome. She never put out, yet you still spent some $400+ on her already. All the clothes off and stuff really means nothing, as she nipped everything in the bud last minute because she was never going through with it. All the rest is show.

Her hope was that you would feel sorry for her and cave, thereby giving her the 175 even though you got zero pussy. Of course she would think that given you already spent over $400 without getting into her pants. I highly suspect the clothes off part etc. was not part of the plan and she got in over her head. Explains the texting to a "friend" also. The friend was directing the show / running cover and she lost control.

Sticking to your guns and not parting with the money were good moves. Do not be fooled by the theatrics. I suspect you will not hear from her because the game is up. If she really wanted to be an SB, she knows where a consistent 175 is waiting for her. But alas, she would have to actually put out for that and that is not part of her plan. If she is a real SB, she would take her anti-anxiety medicine, calm down, and then come back. I would be surprised if that happened.[/QUOTE]Your summary is the likely scenario. I think she has a willingness to put out. For her price. I flat out told her during our negotiation that if she really wants more money, she may be able to find someone willing to give her 300 but he's likely to be a lot older, fat, ugly, not fun, and controlling. I'm decent looking and in reasonably good shape and treat people respectfully. She agreed and said she just couldn't do it that way with an ugly fat guy. However, actions speak louder than words and she flaked. The odd thing is that she was naked in my bed with no lifeline for miles. A wise girl would have given up the pussy and walked with the 175 then ghosted me. Been there done that too. Typically that's what the super hot ones do until they find something better. She knew by flaking I wasn't going to give her a dime. Why not walk with the cash anyways?

My membership on SA expired a few days ago but I did see her online last night. Today when I look at our messages on the site her pic is gray but her screenname is still there and it says "Unable to send a message as user is no longer active". Other girls in my message list have their pic grayed out but the screen name says "Sugar Baby" and below it says "The user's account has been deactivated". Anyone know what the difference is here? If she blocked me, then she was a good actor. If she has gone on hiatus perhaps the anxiety thing was real. I'm moving on anyways as tonight I have another SB cumming over for a 2nd date. She picked the location (my place).

[QUOTE=Josephr9999;4530532]What a disappointing ending. Finally found one that I clicked with after 5 dates on a different level than all the other girls and it appeared the sex was going to be epic as well only to crash and burn a foot from the finish line. My biggest disappointment is the amount I spent on the dates leading up but I still had fun and made out with a hot young coed and the law of averages probably caught up with me. At least I hadn't given her any cash yet. I made plans today with another SB I met last week. She's coming to my place for dinner and cuddling. The allowance will be a lot less, if any except she's not near as hot as my little Latina. Back to the random pump and dumps for awhile I guess. Beats being married.[/QUOTE]Not judging as it doesn't sound like you regret how you handled it too much and sort of seem to have gotten some enjoyment out of all that wining and dining you did, and everyone has different aspects of this hobby they like.

However I think you could have handled this very differently, I think both in getting her successfully to the FC, and saving yourself time and money. Sounds like you're out over 500 in meals, not to mention all the driving you did and time spent.

First, avoid dinner, especially expensive ones. Lunches, cocktails, coffee, etc accomplishes all the same stuff for an initial M&G in terms of seeing if you're interested and laying some game on them. I've had countless meetings where I knew immediately I didn't even want to go to the FC, the idea of being out almost an entire FC allowance each time that happens pains me. If you really like them and enjoy that stuff, do it AFTER you know you like them. The girls that insist on that for the M&G, are almost always going to be rinsers or the princess type (which I avoid like the plague when I do this).

Second, I know it seems like more dates and social meetings makes them more into it and comfortable, I think it's often the reverse. Move quickly in every way, to the M&G to the FC, everything. Time is your enemy in this game for a host of reasons but if you have a newbie on the line the last thing you want to do is give her time to overthink it. If you're 4 or 5 dates in and nothing's happened, it's not going to.

Lastly, you way overnegotiated the allowance. She wanted 200, if that was within your abilities to do, then say yes. It's hardly an unreasonable request, and allowances can always be renegotiated later. The first time they do it with you is the toughest decision for them, if she was enjoying it you could have gotten her down later very easily. Also, as was mentioned by someone earlier, 99% of them do not care about those extras. Most will appreciate the gestures when done for them but it's not what they value, not why they're doing this especially at the outset. I use that sometimes as part of my pitch, but not as an allowance negotiation tool. You ended up in this hard, business-like, adversarial negotiation with her that in the end would've saved you 25 a meet. You spent five times that on each of the dinners you paid for. And it doesn't make sense, but going from something with a 2 in front of it to a 1 can impact their feelings about it. Same reason retailers price ending in 99 cents.

Not meant to lecture, but maybe give some thoughts on what to do differently. Good luck.

[QUOTE=TomDickNHarry;4531469] You ended up in this hard, business-like, adversarial negotiation with her that in the end would've saved you 25 a meet. You spent five times that on each of the dinners you paid for. And it doesn't make sense, but going from something with a 2 in front of it to a 1 can impact their feelings about it. Same reason retailers price ending in 99 cents.

Not meant to lecture, but maybe give some thoughts on what to do differently. Good luck.[/QUOTE]She was at 2 and I was at one. I asked her to meed in the middle at 150. She said she really wanted 2 and the lowest she'd go is 175 so that's where it ended. Hindsight is 20/20 I should have agreed to the 200 then ghosted or whatever. Sometimes daddy has to demonstrate that baby has to give in a little after daddy has demonstrated his willingness to spend. The 25 wasn't about 25 - it was about gaining some power back in my corner and not giving her everything she wanted.

Really worth not getting the pussy over to gain power that you don't have in the first place. They got the pussy, they got the power and they negotiate how they see fit that is worth it to them.

[QUOTE=Josephr9999;4531477]She was at 2 and I was at one. I asked her to meed in the middle at 150. She said she really wanted 2 and the lowest she'd go is 175 so that's where it ended. Hindsight is 20/20 I should have agreed to the 200 then ghosted or whatever. Sometimes daddy has to demonstrate that baby has to give in a little after daddy has demonstrated his willingness to spend. The 25 wasn't about 25 - it was about gaining some power back in my corner and not giving her everything she wanted.[/QUOTE].

[QUOTE=BStreet;4531620]Really worth not getting the pussy over to gain power that you don't have in the first place. They got the pussy, they got the power and they negotiate how they see fit that is worth it to them..[/QUOTE]I disagree. Guys have the money and the power with all the women that are on Seeking to choose from. She may see the reverse from her point and just wait until the next guy without game to come by and pay her the full amount she wants. Move on to the next one that you see online.

[QUOTE=BStreet;4531620]Really worth not getting the pussy over to gain power that you don't have in the first place. They got the pussy, they got the power and they negotiate how they see fit that is worth it to them.

.[/QUOTE]Maybe I'm spamming adding another two cents; the entire transaction is delicate because once she gets pissed off what good can happen later? Surely there is not going to be any GFE after she feels "disappointed" in her little mind.

They sometimes aren't doing this because they like you or even like sex; they like the money.

I don't know the solution; in my limited experience I wasn't asked a figure by the "babies" I found in S. Florida and $100 was fine with them evidently.

When I met a couple of girls on Back Page before I found the "babies" I knew the amount and didn't try to haggle it down.

Hooker girls sometimes have GPS and that's that; they're not really into sex with strange men and want a lot of $ to do it. The ones who actually seem to like it are not unreasonable.

The huge problem is sorting the wheat from the chaff; horny girls who like fucking with random men and will like it with you are out there but you don't always find them first.

[QUOTE=BStreet;4531620]Really worth not getting the pussy over to gain power that you don't have in the first place. They got the pussy, they got the power and they negotiate how they see fit that is worth it to them.

.[/QUOTE]How about the SB not getting any money just to gain power that they don't have in the first place? SD has the money, the power to spend it and SD negotiates how he sees fit that is worth to him.

As far as negotiations I've always felt you can go up but never down. I just didn't see a girl going from 200 down to 150 or 100 etc after a month or so of dates. Maybe I'm wrong. I truly think there's more than the money issue here. She loves fancy dinners, we discussed that and I told her we'd still do that but it wouldn't be 3 x in a week as this week was an anomaly in my schedule. She had a sure thing with a guy she had been out with 4 other times. We had open discussions about terms just hadn't discussed the financial part in detail until the other night. I think she was overwhelmed by the situation and just freaked. She wasn't initially intending to stay the night after we agreed on the amount, and when I told her it was a deal breaker for me she went back to my text and realized she misinterpreted it. I told her I was going upstairs and she was free to decide what she wanted to do. It put some pressure on her but it was time to either show or go. I wasn't interested in driving her home in the middle of the night 90 minutes round trip and I made that clear if we had an arrangement it would have to be a weekly overnight at my place. Two minutes later she went upstairs looking for me while ripping off her clothes, laughing, giggling etc.

While I can see I'm trying to rationalize behavior of an irrational 21 year old I think the money factor would have been only a small contributor to her flaking. Certainly pay anyone a large sum and the legs will spread quickly no questions asked. The one thing I've learned in this game is to be the holder of the power so you each get what you want. I hold the money and she holds the pussy. It must be win-win for both parties.

[QUOTE=BStreet;4531620]Really worth not getting the pussy over to gain power that you don't have in the first place. They got the pussy, they got the power and they negotiate how they see fit that is worth it to them.

.[/QUOTE]There's nothing, and I mean nothing that dries a girl's puss more in this world than a desperate, pussy-begging guy with no options. Learn to make yourself the prize and never ever put a girl in charge of anything. She doesn't like the terms? Tough luck toots, there's the door. It's true if you're in a stable relationship or in the sugar bowl. The person that can't walk away has no power at all. BE THE PRIZE.

There is power on both sides as we have the money, they have the pussy, but for that small amount of $25 to me was not worth trying to gain power in this particular situation. She may have still flaked even if you gave her the $200 right off the bat, but again you had said you both got along great and in the end trying to prove power over $25 seems kind of mute. In most cases to these girls the prize is the money, not the Sugar Daddy, oh we can be charming, great in bed, be a mentor, blah, blah but we are not the prize, the money for the most part to most of these girls is the PRIZE! Doesn't mean you give them what they want as many are GPS and I walk away from those too, but when it gets down to $25 or even some cases $50, if you want it and that's what it takes, then get it, cause that in turn will turn them off as well in thinking they are not worth that little bit more.

[QUOTE=Josephr9999;4531830]How about the SB not getting any money just to gain power that they don't have in the first place? SD has the money, the power to spend it and SD negotiates how he sees fit that is worth to him.

As far as negotiations I've always felt you can go up but never down. I just didn't see a girl going from 200 down to 150 or 100 etc after a month or so of dates. Maybe I'm wrong. I truly think there's more than the money issue here. She loves fancy dinners, we discussed that and I told her we'd still do that but it wouldn't be 3 x in a week as this week was an anomaly in my schedule. She had a sure thing with a guy she had been out with 4 other times. We had open discussions about terms just hadn't discussed the financial part in detail until the other night. I think she was overwhelmed by the situation and just freaked. She wasn't initially intending to stay the night after we agreed on the amount, and when I told her it was a deal breaker for me she went back to my text and realized she misinterpreted it. I told her I was going upstairs and she was free to decide what she wanted to do. It put some pressure on her but it was time to either show or go. I wasn't interested in driving her home in the middle of the night 90 minutes round trip and I made that clear if we had an arrangement it would have to be a weekly overnight at my place. Two minutes later she went upstairs looking for me while ripping off her clothes, laughing, giggling etc.

While I can see I'm trying to rationalize behavior of an irrational 21 year old I think the money factor would have been only a small contributor to her flaking. Certainly pay anyone a large sum and the legs will spread quickly no questions asked. The one thing I've learned in this game is to be the holder of the power so you each get what you want. I hold the money and she holds the pussy. It must be win-win for both parties.[/QUOTE]

Just wrapped up a trip to Richmond. I met a girl off of SA on my visit. Her name is Phoebe. We met in my hotel bar. Had a light snack and a few drinks, good conversation. She looked gorgeous, to say the least. I've attached a few photos she sent me.

After some time getting to know each other, I politely asked if she would like to relax in my room. With a smile, she said she was wondering when I would ask. Upstairs we went.

We relaxed to something on tv. More small talk, then some making out, then clothes started coming off. As the photos show, she has an amazing body. I won't go into too many graphic details, but we pretty much ran the gamut of positions and ways to please each other. Once I was spent (felt like she could have kept going), we curled up for a bit, making more small talk. I had an early morning, think she realized it when I yawned. She thanked me for a wonderful evening and said we would have to do it again when I'm in town. I emphatically agreed. I discretely slipped her 4 bills. In hindsight, it was worth it. Normally I try to go a bit below that, 4 is my max. But for the time getting to know each other, and the close to two hours of fun, and cuddle time afterwards, I really didn't feel bad about the amount.

As I was writing this, she said that she had a bad encounter with a guy on the site, so she took down her profile for a bit. Might repost it after some time. If she does, I'll add the link. She's still open to meeting though. I told her I might know some cool guys. So if you are a senior member, reach out to me, she's a fun one.

[QUOTE=Unassuming2018;4532186]Just wrapped up a trip to Richmond. I met a girl off of SA on my visit. Her name is Phoebe. We met in my hotel bar. Had a light snack and a few drinks, good conversation. She looked gorgeous, to say the least. I've attached a few photos she sent me.

After some time getting to know each other, I politely asked if she would like to relax in my room. With a smile, she said she was wondering when I would ask. Upstairs we went.

We relaxed to something on tv. More small talk, then some making out, then clothes started coming off. As the photos show, she has an amazing body. I won't go into too many graphic details, but we pretty much ran the gamut of positions and ways to please each other. Once I was spent (felt like she could have kept going), we curled up for a bit, making more small talk. I had an early morning, think she realized it when I yawned. She thanked me for a wonderful evening and said we would have to do it again when I'm in town. I emphatically agreed. I discretely slipped her 4 bills. In hindsight, it was worth it. Normally I try to go a bit below that, 4 is my max. But for the time getting to know each other, and the close to two hours of fun, and cuddle time afterwards, I really didn't feel bad about the amount.

As I was writing this, she said that she had a bad encounter with a guy on the site, so she took down her profile for a bit. Might repost it after some time. If she does, I'll add the link. She's still open to meeting though. I told her I might know some cool guys. So if you are a senior member, reach out to me, she's a fun one.[/QUOTE]I love that kind of female, sounds great.

I'm curious; did she have an occupation, or was she a student, or was she an UTR using SA to find guys?

Either way it sounds like a good time.

I have spend $250 on a long involved date with a civilian which was much less fun than yours.