"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=ErnestLl;4514728]The basis of any successful negotiation is for each party to find something the other party values highly that you value at a much lesser level.

Men with more $$ than available young pussy value $$ at $. For young pussy its the opposite. They give it up for free to the soulful barista, but can't make rent.

So it really is an equally agreeable negotation, not an unequal trade.[/QUOTE]We are actually describing two different things. You are talking negotiations; I am talking the actual economics of the trade, not the essence of a negotiation.

Let's say I have $ and you have a shirt. If I offer you the $ for your shirt and you agree to give me the shirt in exchange for my $, then 1) yes, we had a successful negotiation, but the economic conditions to each of us are not equal. 2) By definition, I must value the shirt more than the $ I had, thus I parted with the $ for the shirt and 3) you parted with the shirt in exchange for the $ because you valued the $ more than the shirt.

Economically, each party sees himself coming out ahead of the position he was in prior to the trade. Therefore, for the trade to take place, each party must view the exchange as an economic gain. For each party to realize a gain, the exchanged items must be economically valued differently, i.e. , have unequal value to each party.

[QUOTE=HappyHunter44;4516296]We are actually describing two different things. You are talking negotiations; I am talking the actual economics of the trade, not the essence of a negotiation.

Let's say I have $ and you have a shirt. If I offer you the $ for your shirt and you agree to give me the shirt in exchange for my $, then 1) yes, we had a successful negotiation, but the economic conditions to each of us are not equal. 2) By definition, I must value the shirt more than the $ I had, thus I parted with the $ for the shirt and 3) you parted with the shirt in exchange for the $ because you valued the $ more than the shirt.

Economically, each party sees himself coming out ahead of the position he was in prior to the trade. Therefore, for the trade to take place, each party must view the exchange as an economic gain. For each party to realize a gain, the exchanged items must be economically valued differently, i.e. , have unequal value to each party.[/QUOTE]Sorry for the lurker unsolicited comment; females all know that they are making out on any transaction to sell pussy to a man; they know they were born with their pussy and the man had to go out and either earn, steal, or inherit that money he pays her for the temporary use of her pussy.

Girls may be self deluded enough to believe that their time is valuable; not really since I have very rarely met any female who had useful information to depart to me so her company was a frivolity to me and usually led to sexual relations or was over soon.

I have often said to many broke females who complained to me about their plight "You're sitting on your ATM card; if you use it, you will have plenty of money. You're just unwilling to take it out. ".

A few hot girls I know have mocked their female friends who fuck for nothing or for free; deep down they think like prostitutes who think a guy must pay up of jerk off.

[QUOTE=Dash;4516324]..females all know that they are making out on any transaction to sell pussy to a man; they know they were born with their pussy and the man had to go out and either earn, steal, or inherit that money he pays her for the temporary use of her pussy.[/QUOTE]You got to the nuts and bolts of it. Not only is the costs of goods $0 for them, it is a reusable item that can be traded over and over again. In contrast, the SD is out the $ and must get another $ in order to exchange for the same pussy (i. e. , exact same item) on another occasion. Marriage pussy is no different. The hubby must continue procuring $$ to have access to the pussy, no matter how much he he has already ponied up.

[QUOTE=HappyHunter44;4516355]You got to the nuts and bolts of it. Not only is the costs of goods $0 for them, [/QUOTE]Close to $0 but the girls do have to spend some money and time to be appealing and stay healthy. Some spend more than others no doubt but there is some cost to the provider. The income potential is still a big win though.

Be safe!

[QUOTE=FanRat;4516409]Close to $0 but the girls do have to spend some money and time to be appealing and stay healthy. Some spend more than others no doubt but there is some cost to the provider. The income potential is still a big win though.

Be safe![/QUOTE]I knew someone would bring this up. Sharp!! I wrote something similar, but more on the long-term costs. However, I deleted the paragraph because I did not want to take focus away from my main point and from the point the other poster was making, which is the pussy does not have to purchased or earned by the female.

Adding to what you said, the unavoidable major cost females pay is the pussy is only deemed "high value" by males for about 10 yrs (ages 15 - 25) then it is all downhill in value to males from there.

At that point, the expenditure to upkeep the pussy environment gives increasing diminishing returns on an annual basis (wonder why women seem to take less care of themselves after age 25 or so. That is why. They inherently know this). That is also why the hot 30+ MILF is such a sought after commodity. She has bucked the trend and decided to take care of herself, to not get fat, and to increase expenditures to keep up the pussy environment top notch as long as possible. And the hot MILF brings something of value that 20 yr old does not have. The MILF has better fuck technique and experience in most cases.

(Also, I am not advocating pedo stuff by saying ages 15 - 25 above. Those ages simply correspond biologically to the years of peak fertility for females.).

[QUOTE=FanRat;4516409]Close to $0 but the girls do have to spend some money and time to be appealing and stay healthy. Some spend more than others no doubt but there is some cost to the provider. The income potential is still a big win though.

Be safe![/QUOTE]I have known a few girls who were hot and didn't use makeup or expensive hair treatments. They weren't ugly and they definitely got attention from men.

I once knew a girl who was pretty and had short straight hair which she cut herself; I guess she was an "extreme cheapskate" but she was nonetheless pretty.

Avoiding becoming fat is not an expense.

In the areas I have lived, there were very nice clothes and Nike sneakers etc. For $5-$10 which the girls could buy if they cared to.

I would agree that they do spend $ on Kotex / Tampax and use more toilet paper than we do.

[QUOTE=HappyHunter44;4516296]
Economically, each party sees himself coming out ahead of the position he was in prior to the trade. Therefore, for the trade to take place, each party must view the exchange as an economic gain. For each party to realize a gain, the exchanged items must be economically valued differently, i.e. , have unequal value to each party.[/QUOTE]I think "must view" is the operative concept there. How valuable something is to an individual is largely about perception (one man's junk is another man's treasure, etc.). A plastic Cracker Jack box toy might have zero value to most people, until you can convince them that it is a rare item and John Lennon used to carry one like it (or better yet that particular one) in his left pocket for good luck, then they might get in a bidding war over it. (There's bonus humor to be found within that particular example).

This means the key to getting top-shelf pussy at bargain rates is to maximize our skills in the game of modifying, to our benefit, their perception of us. Becoming good at that can bring our average cost-per-fuck down to ridiculously low amounts.

[QUOTE=BStreet;4515023]If she stays at 500 to 700 she quoted me, won't be too much volume. Told me we must have had some totally different arrangements in the past. YUP! Hope the BBBJTCIM was good!

.[/QUOTE]It was great. I messaged her again and you're right she seems to have upped her price. I may have been wrong about the high volume. The way she got down to business was just really quick and easy, and so it seemed like she was pretty used to getting the job done. Thinking back, I guess it could have just been her robotic personality.

[QUOTE=OliverNP;4517216]
This means the key to getting top-shelf pussy at bargain rates is to maximize our skills in the game of modifying, to our benefit, their perception of us. Becoming good at that can bring our average cost-per-fuck down to ridiculously low amounts.[/QUOTE]Most girls believe that most guys on SA are lying about their income and marital status. I've seen the categories as sugar, splenda, and salt. I'd argue the lot of us are splenda when viewed thru the typical Pretty Woman lens, and lots of girls learn this when their initial 1 k ppm ask is countered with 150. This forum is proof 🤔.

If you accept the above, then what is the image and perception we want to portray?

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/100b4682-62b5-40dd-b052-f09b9a184c01[/URL]

Anyone have intel on this SB? In my messaging with her she seems like a traditional pro.

[QUOTE=ChrisCarr;4517410]Most girls believe that most guys on SA are lying about their income and marital status. I've seen the categories as sugar, splenda, and salt. I'd argue the lot of us are splenda when viewed thru the typical Pretty Woman lens, and lots of girls learn this when their initial 1 k ppm ask is countered with 150. This forum is proof 🤔.

If you accept the above, then what is the image and perception we want to portray?[/QUOTE]Lurker comment herewith; I knew a girl in S. Florida who used SA website to find eligible men for a relationship; she also used it for locating simps willing to buy her dinner.

She had a female friend who found a mega rich sugar daddy who paid her apartment rent and gave her a big allowance; this guy is like Bigfoot or a unicorn, they aren't so common.

A guy who has a lot of dough who is under 70 doesn't have to spend too much to find female company; he's not seen as a Quasimodo quite by the girls.

I have some dough but I'm not willing to spend more than what a top playboy model female in a foreign country charges for service.

Discussing this with my S. Florida "baby" whom I met offline from her coworker; how many hot females are out there who have a pussy; how many successful guys who aren't total warthogs or geezer dinosaurs are out there?

I would say that there are actually more broke desperate females; I also once told her that "at night all cats are black" and "from behind females are remarkably similar"=a substitute female is always out there.

She came to respect my frugality and no nonsense treatment; I said to her when she couldn't pay some bill or wanted her nails done and etc. "No pussy, no money. Come up and see me and you will have your money. ".

[QUOTE=ChrisCarr;4517410]Most girls believe that most guys on SA are lying about their income and marital status. I've seen the categories as sugar, splenda, and salt. I'd argue the lot of us are splenda when viewed thru the typical Pretty Woman lens, and lots of girls learn this when their initial 1 k ppm ask is countered with 150. This forum is proof 🤔.

If you accept the above, then what is the image and perception we want to portray?[/QUOTE]Money is one of the main draws for them to look for an SD in the first place, but most of the girls I've met have some other underlying issues that are the "other" reason they enter the bowl. It can be anything from typical classic daddy issues / trying to replace a part of their life they missed out on, to the simple fact that they are sexually adventurous and have a need to mix up their otherwise boring life -- this is all of course in addition to their desire to upgrade their lifestyle (or in some cases get out of financially difficult situations). Understanding what their non-monetary needs are, and optimizing how well we give them a perception of fulfillment around those needs is the key to making the monetary needs less important.

But I think that pursuing a single, well defined-image to portray is probably futile. The successes I've had are nothing like that, it's all very situational and there is no one-size fits all solution. One thing I try to do is make her feel like she has ALL of my attention -- as if, other SBs don't matter to me anymore since I met her. This tactic actually seems to work a little too well, I get offers for "sugarless dating" all the time whenever I break the news I'm moving on. But, while the basic tactic as described works, there does not seem to be a blanket forumula how to execute that tactic, in fact it's different with every girl. What's more, it doesn't work on every girl. Being a very good listener, and saying the right thing at the right time is really a matter of practiced salesmanship I think. And failures still occur, but with practice you can greatly increase the success rate.

Just joining the bowl again after being on the side line for a bit. There must a ton of guys who go on "free rides" because most newish girls have similar stories: met up with some guy and he then left with no sugar in sight. (They never say out loud but it's implied that they did "stuff".

It seems it's rampant, at least in my area. Has this become the norm everywhere?

[QUOTE=EvilTmp;4518080]Just joining the bowl again after being on the side line for a bit. There must a ton of guys who go on "free rides" because most newish girls have similar stories: met up with some guy and he then left with no sugar in sight. (They never say out loud but it's implied that they did "stuff".

It seems it's rampant, at least in my area. Has this become the norm everywhere?[/QUOTE]Not here in Nashville. We had one but we tracked him down and outed him as a f*cktard on this board.

[QUOTE=EvilTmp;4518080]Just joining the bowl again after being on the side line for a bit. There must a ton of guys who go on "free rides" because most newish girls have similar stories: met up with some guy and he then left with no sugar in sight. (They never say out loud but it's implied that they did "stuff".

It seems it's rampant, at least in my area. Has this become the norm everywhere?[/QUOTE]That's why pimps exist haha.
I would bet this is common even with newer hookers, it's an illegal act. If they don't collect money up front, and they don't have muscle they are SOL. Young amateur sugar babies who are already secretive and embarrassed about this are particularly at risk because they are most likely to keep it quiet.

Dirty business, and that's part of it. I'm sure the white knights on this board (who don't seem to have much luck with these w****s) will disagree but I don't feel the least bit bad for them.