For the record, my view is:
1. USASG is to facilitate an exchange of views among men.
2. The SB in question is a provider and this is a consumer's thread.
3. The requisite experience to contribute to the thread is missing.
Let's see how it goes.
Printable View
For the record, my view is:
1. USASG is to facilitate an exchange of views among men.
2. The SB in question is a provider and this is a consumer's thread.
3. The requisite experience to contribute to the thread is missing.
Let's see how it goes.
[QUOTE=F Scott; 1458410]It does.
In my opinion, there is plenty of room in the clubhouse for all to participate. My father always said to us,"The only time we stop learning is when we are dead." I would add to this that we never know from where knowledge will come.
Scott[/QUOTE]Under this theory we'd take art classes to learn about math.
[QUOTE=Literal2;1458842]Under this theory we'd take art classes to learn about math.[/QUOTE]Under this theory, we would be pleasantly surprised to also learn some math in art class.
Peace,
Scott
I'm sorry that Nando got caught, but I'm grateful he told us about it.
I had believed he was unmarried and so his growing attachment to his ATF SB could have had a happy outcome. One of the risks for married dudes of playing around with SBs is that you can get attached. Several of us have discussed this in the past but it bears reinforcing for new players.
I don't know how many mongers on here have been through a divorce but I imagine quite a few. It is one of life's absolute worst and most expensive experiences and therefore to be avoided unless absolutely necessary. When you meet someone you fall in love with outside your marriage, it can become necessary and you accept the pain and suffering because you want to be with the one you love. However, often enough a divorce is initiated by a wife who has found her husband fooling around. The husband may not want a divorce, or may not want to go through the pain and expense.
One reason many on this thread have cautioned against emotional involvement with SBs is because if you aren't careful it can lead to pain. Pain when the SB leaves you for some guy who's not paying her to stick around. Pain when your wife finds out and hires a divorce lawyer. There are those who say everyone gets caught, but that's just not true. You can reduce your chances of getting caught.
These are the reasons the thread discusses the precautions needed to reduce discovery by the SB of your true identity. The risk of disclosure is that the SB will get ideas of blackmail or revenge by contacting your wife if you ultimately decide to leave. How to avoid such situations and how to deal with them if they do occur is another subject discussed in many posts on this thread.
Whether or not you are not a married guy and just want to play around with girls on a sugar for sex basis but reduce the chance that you will run afoul of prostitution laws, SBs have some advantages over pros, chief among them being many of them do not believe they are pros because they are looking for one sugardaddy. A girl who has multiple sugardaddies and also fucks around with other men for cash is a pro in most people's minds.
As it happens, I disagree with laws against the world's oldest profession, but nobody reading this thread should try to use any of the techniques taught to conceal illegal activity. They won't work for that purpose.
So for the above reasons many posts on the thread have advised married men not to get emotionally involved with sbs and how to avoid complications. This is not because emotional involvement with women is not good. To the contrary, it is one of life's great satisfactions. Unfortunately, giving sugar to a girl to be with you is not a good foundation on which to build emotional involvement.
Finally, there is nothing at all that says if you seek to avoid emotional involvement you have to be content with fucking sbs who are skanks. There's nothing that says if you avoid emotional involvement you treat sbs badly. I think the goal should be to fuck as attractive women as possible and treat anyone you fuck with consideration and gentleness. But you have to know where to draw the line in your relationships.
No matter how careful you are, there is a good chance of getting hurt one way or the other if you play this game. I believe emotional involvement with an sb increases the odds you will get hurt, but that doesn't mean I don't sympathize with Nando. I do.
Becoming E-involved with my SB is what precipitated my mess. I HAD to see her and spent way too much time doing so, therefore increasing exposure. When you spend 28 % of your life with someone it's hard to hide that fact. After it all came out I hustled up the road to spend the afternoon with my SB. This falls under the category of "begging to get caught ".again, but I am seriously addicted to her. She even told me that although she loves me I am not her forever guy, that she couldn't see herself bringing Gramps home to Mama and friends. (my word, not hers) Even so I am willing to throw caution to the wind.
This sounds like an aquaintance who was a recovering Heroin addict. He said that the high is like nothing he has ever felt before and would do anything to experience it.over and over again to the exclusion of his health, wellbeing and financial security.
So my brothers and sister, tread carefully when you are falling for your SB. It is unbelievable but OH so dangerous.
Begging to get caught indeed, plus I think we have discussed addiction to our SBs on here before as well. I know I have taken chances that I would not have even considered before this woman came into my life. I've even gotten a few "you did what!" responses from both online and real friends, although I have been more careful lately, or maybe not. I don't use a burner phone, my SB has my real number, knows my real first and last name (she even signed the room service bill last time) , knows where I live, where I work, where wife works. So she could royally fuck up my life. However, she is not a Nando 1 (she's a MILF who enjoys the sex) , lives a couple hours from me, and does not have the revenge gene in her body I don't think. Who mentioned addiction again?
It's a slippery slope we tread here as married guys and the emotional involvement increases the risk exponentially, but oh the high we get! It also leads to sleepless nights, chest pains, lack of productivity at work, reduction in emotional involvement with spouse and family (we only have so much to go around you know). And that's if things go well and we don't get caught! When this current relationship ends, as we all know they will sooner or later, I don't see myself back in one like this again.
So for some of the newer guys on here, if that's what you seek in this endeavor. I'll say it again. Be careful what you wish for.
Magicrat
I go away for a long weekend, and this is what I come back to? I feel transported back to third grade; mom and dad are fighting again, and I'm terrified. I don't want them to get divorced, mainly because I don't want to go visit dad two weekends a month at his scruffy apartment in the city, like a couple of my friends.
Lucky for me, my parents worked out their problems. I hope people here can too.
Case in point: I have a situation where I'd like input from both sides here. I'll even state the question up front: Am I being cruel here? Do I owe my baby more?
I decided a couple weeks ago that I needed to stop seeing my unemployed SB (USB). Apropos of recent posts, I felt she was getting too attached emotionally, and, her being unemployed, she was depending on me too much for cash flow. I didn't want to risk any type of "in too deep" situation. I've been there before and emerged ok but didn't want to temp fate twice in one year.
I decided this morning to call it off. Clean break. I explained that the arrangement we had was no longer working for me and said we couldn't see each other any more.
The thing is, I did this by email. I didn't want to risk an ugly confrontation. I didn't want to have to answer any questions.
She eventually replied that she understands but wished I had "been a better person" and done this face to face. She also laid on a guilt trip about her roommate moving out and "depending on me."
I feel her response is trying to bait me into a discussion when all I want is to disappear. Do I owe her any more at this point?
On another front, I'm sorry to hear about your troubles, Nando. Can you tell us more about how it happened and any subsequent discussions with your SO? That might help all of us. Regardless, you are playing with fire by running off to see the SB again. But you already know that. Maybe you needed to lay low for a while. We all needed to from time to time.
Joe
[QUOTE=JoesParty; 1459052]I go away for a long weekend, and this is what I come back to? I feel transported back to third grade; mom and dad are fighting again, and I'm terrified. I don't want them to get divorced, mainly because I don't want to go visit dad two weekends a month at his scruffy apartment in the city, like a couple of my friends*
I decided this morning to call it off. Clean break. I explained that the arrangement we had was no longer working for me and said we couldn't see each other any more.[/QUOTE]Joe: while it can be tedious to air disagreements, sometimes it's necessary. Not every piece of advice is equally worthwhile. Some are likely to lead to trouble, and sometimes that needs to be pointed out.
As to your question, my view is that your best course is not to communicate any more. Period. In a break-up it is so easy to say the wrong thing or to be misunderstood it's usually better to try total silence after an explanation like you have already given. If it becomes evident later that you will have to deal with her, because she makes a threat, for example, you can work out the best response at that time.
Others will have a different approach. This is just my view based on my experience.
[QUOTE=Magic Rat; 1459015]Begging to get caught indeed, plus I think we have discussed addiction to our SBs on here before as well. I know I have taken chances that I would not have even considered before this woman came into my life. I've even gotten a few "you did what!" responses from both online and real friends, although I have been more careful lately, or maybe not. I don't use a burner phone, my SB has my real number, knows my real first and last name (she even signed the room service bill last time) , knows where I live, where I work, where wife works. So she could royally fuck up my life. However, she is not a Nando 1 (she's a MILF who enjoys the sex) , lives a couple hours from me, and does not have the revenge gene in her body I don't think. Who mentioned addiction again?
It's a slippery slope we tread here as married guys and the emotional involvement increases the risk exponentially, but oh the high we get! It also leads to sleepless nights, chest pains, lack of productivity at work, reduction in emotional involvement with spouse and family (we only have so much to go around you know). And that's if things go well and we don't get caught! When this current relationship ends, as we all know they will sooner or later, I don't see myself back in one like this again.
So for some of the newer guys on here, if that's what you seek in this endeavor. I'll say it again. Be careful what you wish for.
Magicrat[/QUOTE]This sets out the case for emotional involvement pretty well I think, and identifies the risks. The risk is there with any kind of fooling around, but with SBs it is particularly high because they are so much like real girlfriends. Correction, they may be real girlfriends.
Many in the mongering crowd, of which we are a subset, do not seek emotional involvement for just these reasons. I would argue that a logical approach, if you seek emotional involvement with an SB, would be to consult a divorce lawyer as soon as possible and figure out how best to protect yourself if and when the shit hits the fan.
[QUOTE=JoesParty; 1459052]I decided a couple weeks ago that I needed to stop seeing my unemployed SB (USB). Apropos of recent posts, I felt she was getting too attached emotionally, and, her being unemployed, she was depending on me too much for cash flow. I didn't want to risk any type of "in too deep" situation. I've been there before and emerged ok but didn't want to temp fate twice in one year.
I decided this morning to call it off. Clean break. I explained that the arrangement we had was no longer working for me and said we couldn't see each other any more.
The thing is, I did this by email. I didn't want to risk an ugly confrontation. I didn't want to have to answer any questions.
She eventually replied that she understands but wished I had "been a better person" and done this face to face. She also laid on a guilt trip about her roommate moving out and "depending on me."
I feel her response is trying to bait me into a discussion when all I want is to disappear. Do I owe her any more at this point?
Joe[/QUOTE]Joe,
I agree with Lit on this. While you may feel bad for how you handled it, this will pass with time, and with her history of clinginess and manipulation, if you were to contact her further, either electronically or by phone call, you would be laying yourself open to further manipulation. Nando 1's are experts at this.
Just as there are more fish in the sea for us, there are more for them as well. My guess is that she'll be fine in a week or so. Early on in my career as an SD I got touched for "text book money" by a baby that I had seen two or three times, who assured me she would "make it up to me" the next time we were together. While I was not in love, I did feel compassion for her, but thankfully I had done my homework by reading the advice of brothers who had been there and politely but firmly refused, saying I was just not comfortable with advancing money, but would be happy to see her again for a romp, and would give her some sugar then. Imagine my surprise when I got no response!
At this moment, you are free, and hopefully invisible, so move on and don't look back.
Scott
[QUOTE=Magic Rat; 1459015]Begging to get caught indeed, plus I think we have discussed addiction to our SBs on here before as well. I know I have taken chances that I would not have even considered before this woman came into my life. I've even gotten a few "you did what!" responses from both online and real friends, although I have been more careful lately, or maybe not. I don't use a burner phone, my SB has my real number, knows my real first and last name (she even signed the room service bill last time) , knows where I live, where I work, where wife works. So she could royally fuck up my life. However, she is not a Nando 1 (she's a MILF who enjoys the sex) , lives a couple hours from me, and does not have the revenge gene in her body I don't think. Who mentioned addiction again?
Magicrat[/QUOTE]See I disposed of that landline before I started. The wife #1 knows I have a #2, and as long as #1 stays #1 all is fine. I even had it in the past where #1 and #2 had dinner with me, one time even a trip to europe. Now this only works if you get this correctly vetted with #1. Explain the advantages she gets. It worked for me, and it does not lead to headaches, chest pain and sleepless nights. It does lead to some funny situations though (I'll share in private)
It is certainly easier to make an electronic break. I had a Nando 1 SB before my HCB SB / GF and I cared about her although she was a mess. She actually stopped all comm with me for about 1 year and I was pretty bummed since she didn't give any notice. When she resurfaced she blackmailed me. So the "dear Jane " letter was probably enough. If you had a significant attraction to her a face to face would probably have been nice for closure, but so much harder to see her shock, sobbing uncontrllably, and grabbing your ankles begging you not to go. Eh, Email / text works.
[QUOTE=JoesParty;1459052]Case in point: I have a situation where I'd like input from both sides here. I'll even state the question up front: Am I being cruel here? Do I owe my baby more?[/QUOTE]Maybe to some readers surprise, I actually agree with everything that's been posted in response to this. In person break-ups are challenging at best and with a Nando 1, you're really just begging for it to go badly. You weren't with her that long, so I think you did exactly what would be considered reasonable with the email. I also agree with not engaging in the back and forth email chain with her. It's just an opportunity for it to get messy.
I would like to highlight my caveat "you weren't with her that long." For those of you who like the long-term thing, I think you have to handle the break-up a little more gently. Mostly because the SB probably will have all of your information and well a woman scorned can be a really bad thing. For this case, in person and honesty would be my advice.
Joe, the thing I would like to commend you on is that you provided an ending. A lot of SD's and SB's (myself included) are prone to just disappearing which leaves all sides wondering and that's not cool. So, good job and don't feel bad. You did more than what a lot do.
Mandy
Joe, think about what she wrote back to you. It was a blatant attempt to prick your ego in order to get you to contact her back, because she believes she can lure you back as long as the comm channel is open. It's an old, old technique used by people the world over. Certain sales techniques use a similar idea: keep the mark talking, because as long as they're talking you have a chance to close; once they leave your chance is zero.
Do not let her suck you back in. You will regret it if you do. Clean break, every time.
Group,
I posted this in a couple of PMs to some brothers lately & felt that it probably would be useful to share to you all.
I had been emailing back and forth a few days ago with a beautiful blonde 24 year old POT. She claimed to be a psychiatrist with a full MD & working at a very popular and flourishing practice.
Now, I never really did figure out why a successful MD was looking for a SD, but my secret hope was that she was just a little bit confused as to the nature of the SA site, and she was actually considering paying me.
Anyway, our discussions came around to the nature of why so many married men were active on SA, and she clued me into a little 'Evolutionary Psychology'. The jist of which is as follows:
*
Evolutionary psychology.
The theory that most of our core behaviors of today come from what made our early ancestors successful in reproducing. We today are the product of successful 'hookups' 100's of millennia in the past right? The techniques of most successful Cave-Daddies from millennia ago banging the most beautiful Cave-babies have been carried down from the generations for the simple reason of successful Cave-Daddies = genetic transference.
So when a woman is pregnant / has a baby, she is unable to become pregnant with another man for a duration of at least 1 year. She has 9 months of pregnancy & at least a few months afterwards. It really does no good from a genetic transference standpoint for the woman to bang 100's of Cave-Daddies in a year, because she is still only going to get pregnant with one of them. After pregnancy, the most successful reproductive strategy she can take would be to get the Daddy to stick around for the duration & take care of her. That would ensure a healthy birth & rearing, and thus help spread her genes into the next generations.
For the prehistoric Cave-daddy, the most successful strategy for spreading his genes into future generations would have been to nail as many cave-babies as he possibly could, in as little time as possible.
So there always has been this monogamy, polygamy conflict between men & women, and it has everything to do with biology. Over time, society evolved to favor the woman's preference of a single partner, because simply successful women's reproduction = a successful species. But it doesn't change the way men deep down have been pre-programmed to behave. On a biological level, it is very difficult for us to live in the sex-prison, and (most) women cannot fathom why we have such a hard time with it, because they are programmed to build the sex-prison from a biological level.
*
Anyhow, this MD / SB really intrigued me obviously, but she eventually dropped off my contact radar without an explanation. Too bad, I really was looking forward to learning more about my primal ways with her.
Hey, I even broke out this GEM of a line. And can you believe I got absolutely no response? Wait for it.
[QUOTE=me]So my wife has been telling me for years that I really need to start seeing a psychiatrist. .
How about we meet for a drink? .[/QUOTE]SERIOUSLY! Can you believe that didn't' work? Man, that was like my all time best stuff.
Carry on Gents!