White knighting doesn't work for mongers
White knighting does not work for mongers because it is inherently hypocritical. Once you stick your dick inside her for money, you lose all moral authority with her and just become another person with whom she has to do unpleasant things in order to pay for xyz. All the emotional angst that you experience over this isn't going to change that, nor is trying to take the moral high ground with a girl after you have already paid her for sex. So the only truly effective choices you have are to: (1) get over it; or (2) stop mongering. There is no such thing as the noble pervert and running that act with these girls just makes things that much more difficult for them.
I do not post much here, but I have been paying strippers for sex for 15+ years and have long since reconciled myself to these realities. For me, these girls are grown adults who make their own choices. We really have no control over how they spend our money once they earn it and even some of the "clean" looking girls have habits, pimps, etc. Now I also avoid girls who looked fucked up, have track marks or have visible pimps, but that is purely for my own safety. I am not enough of a hypocrite to take the twisted moral position where I object to enabling bad behavior when I see it, but am perfectly fine with doing so when I don't.
Oh, and as you continue to cope with your guilt over enabling girls to do bad things by paying them for sex, ask yourself this: Would they be better off without that money? They may be paying for bad habits, but they also pay for housing, food, transportation, etc. Are you making their lives better by withholding that money?
Just a few things to think about.
[QUOTE=BearB;3002376]Really want to go there JD? Self reflection is a dangerous thing, and it rarely leaves us feeling better about ourselves. I, like you, really care about some of the young ladies I have met in this hobby; many of them, in fact. I have fallen in love, in various aspects, with a few of them. The help I have tried to render to a couple has been to no avail. I really wish I could wave a magic wand and make all of bad in their lives go away. Many of them are gone now; a whole hell of a lot more than the 25 that we have read about in Jacksonville over the past year. You probably know as well if not better than me, that caring too much has its inherent dangers. Remember that old fucked up question: what came first, the chicken or the egg? I ask, what came first: the hooker or the John? Does one exist without the other? Who really enables who? I would submit to you this: for every provider out there that is an addict, there are dozens of Johns that suffer to an equal or greater extent a different type of addiction. And while one might argue otherwise, I would submit their addiction can be no less totally destructive. Of course that does not apply to any of our monger friends on usasg?? None of us would engage in such risky behavior that could lead to the loss of our friends, families, our jobs, result in us ending up in jail, or succumbing to a disease that we refuse to acknowledge or seek help for. I would bet most of us on this forum would argue we are too smart to be lured onto such a destructive path. Take me for example. If you think for a moment that the lure of a beautiful, sweet smelling, sweet tasting young lady with a perfectly shaped ass, breasts, and a personality to boot, a girl that will let me bust one off in her ass and then DT me to a second orgasm down her beautiful throat, you would be wrong. No, that is not me. I would never drive an hour in one direction in pursuit of a fresh piece of ass. I would not wait in a parking lot for an hour or more waiting for my soon to be latest conquest to finish with the piece of shit John she is currently banging so she can accommodate me. Unprotected sex? I would not consider it. Take time off work for a mid day rendevous? No way. Run a little short on money to pay bills this month to accommodate a $250 donation to a good cause? Never! Catch an STD? Will never happen to me. Wife finds out about my hobby? Arrest? Fired from job? We can deny it all day long, but many of us are in fact addicts. And to be sure, the addiction, is potentially no less of a problem than that of alcohol, crystal meth, heroin and the many others. Hell, like me, I would bet you are familiar with a couple of mongers that have been exposed in this hobby and have chosen the easy way out! Sickeningly sad, but true. Until one hits bottom, recognizes that their lives are being destroyed by the addiction and actually reaches out for help, I fear there is little that can be done. Intervention, therapy and rehabilitation just do not work if the addict is not a willing participant. I've administered narcan intravenously to several addicts brought into local emergency rooms in drug induced comas. The reversal effect is almost immediate and dramatic. Have had the same individuals present to the ER a week later with the same problem. Some don't make it. Never a pretty site. One can counsel all day long about the consequences of our choices, but until another wants and is willing to listen we cannot help. We will never eradicate this age old problem. If every one on this forum quit the hobby today we would probably not put a dent in most providers business, but I do wonder. For me personally, I know I can not solve all the woes of the world. Where I differ from many though, is I believe in my heart if I can make a difference for even one person, whether it be a patient, a provider, or a monger, it is time and effort well spent. I would like to think I could make better choices, and encourage providers to do the same. You know exactly what I am talking about. I have been a hobbiest for about 45 years now, and I still find myself saying the same things. I need to make better choices and encourage providers to do the same. One thing I have committed to doing based on recent events is to walk from providers that are high or drunk. If drug paraphernalia are present in the room I am going to walk. If big brother is lurking I am going to walk. If the provider has a hint of recent track marks I am going to walk. If uncovered services are offered to me I might just walk. The last one for me poses significant challenge. Will just have to see where it goes. Having said all that, I am not ready to leave the hobby. It has always been an adrenaline rush for me, a high in its own right. I love the variety, the challenge, and all the obvious perks associated with being in the presence of an uninhibited provider. We are all dogs JD and far too many of us just cannot help ourselves. I would argue it is in our nature. Like you though I am a bit sickened by the recent passing of some of our old "young" friends. Fuck! To think I could have contributed even an iota is nauseating. That said, I am so fucking pissed that Aubri's voicemail box is full. I so want to rest my balls on her beautiful chin. I am a sick fuck. At least I acknowledge it.[/QUOTE]
I understand your position
[QUOTE=BearB;3005163]I appreciate your sage words of wisdom and advice. As I find myself approaching the verge of beyond help, may I ask that you take a moment and pray for me.[/QUOTE]And if you want to be genuine that is noble. These women are human beings, that goes without saying. I mentioned you being conflicted simply because you seem to genuinely care about some of these women and their well being, all the while enabling them by paying them to have sex. No judgement being passed by me at all. Just an observation.
Guilt / blame in the wrong place
[QUOTE=ThisBlows;3005212]I believe there are times that all of us hate ourselves for the things we have done and continue to do in this hobby or even the things that we think we should have done differently. That being said, we should not beat ourselves up about whatever it is that we think we did wrong. Most of these women live a tragic fucked-up existence and were broken inside long before we ever met them. That doesn't mean that we can't still see them as real people, but we should remember why we go to them in the first place. To get fucked! Plain and simple. We don't go crazy, waiting hours to see these girls so that we can rescue them or buy them groceries. We put up with all of their bullshit and drama because we need to get fucked or blown or whatever by them. As long as it involves them making us cum, it's all good. It is what it is and we should learn to accept that and be okay with it. It may mess with your head sometimes, but we all make choices in life that we question.[/QUOTE]I hear you and Bear too, but I think that my experiences in sourcing pay for pussy primarily from strippers has given me a different view on this topic. I also believe that where I have done a lot of my pay for pussy, a high % of it in the northeast before I moved down here a few years ago, also colors my views.
There is nothing inherently destructive about paying a girl for sex. There are many girls that do it for a variety of reasons. In my former locale, my pay for pussy partners were predominantly (1) single mothers trying to provide for their children; and (2) girls from overseas trying to send money back to their families. I picked these girls up in strip clubs and my payments to them were supplemental to what they made in the clubs. I also travel a bit and most of the same has held true with the girls that I sourced from clubs in other cities, including places on the Left Coast, TX and the Midwest. These arrangements were simple, fun, and clean all around. The worst intoxicant that my partners were on was generally alcohol or maybe a little weed.
It was not until I moved down here that I saw the hard core drug element so infused with the pay for pussy market. I never pick up SWs and rarely dial BP girls, so I might have seen it more up north and in other areas if I did so. But here in J'ville it has also bled heavily into the strip clubs too, where of course I source most of my action. It has been depressing and a lot harder to find the right partners than it was in my former haunts, so I do understand where you guys are coming from.
But my ultimate point is that, in my humble opinion, this angst and guilt felt by some of you is misplaced. These girls were fucked up long before you met them and nothing you will do, for the reasons I discussed before, will change that. Paying them for sex is not the problem and there are plenty of girls who build good lives, or accomplish necessary things, by selling sex. So with all due respect to our salty 45 year vet, I think his long time doing this in J'ville with BP and other problem providers has made him a little myopic. Also, even a guy with my paltry 15 year history understands that trying to "help" girls who don't want that help, especially from mongers, is both pointless and actually makes things more difficult for them. In this newbie's humble opinion, the best that we can do, short of ending our monger careers and setting up outreach programs instead, is to treat them kindly when we deal with them and, of course, pay our tabs.
