"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=RomanRich;4504399]Never tried the sugar bowl before but thinking of giving it a shot. I always assumed I needed a lot more money but based on the posts I'm reading, it looks like it's not what I thought. I do have one question though, what is an FC? I read back a few pages but couldn't quite figure out what it means. I kept coming back to Fun (Fuck) cabin. Do some of you own a place that you can bring girls to? I would have to rely on hotels, AirBnB or car dates.

Thanks.

RR.[/QUOTE]Fuck Chamber. Wherever you bang them, your place, hotel, apartment, etc.

[QUOTE=RomanRich;4504399]Never tried the sugar bowl before but thinking of giving it a shot. I always assumed I needed a lot more money but based on the posts I'm reading, it looks like it's not what I thought. I do have one question though, what is an FC? I read back a few pages but couldn't quite figure out what it means. I kept coming back to Fun (Fuck) cabin. Do some of you own a place that you can bring girls to? I would have to rely on hotels, AirBnB or car dates.

Thanks.

RR.[/QUOTE]In addition to $ you will need a lot of time and patience, especially with the young SBs. Good luck.

[QUOTE=RomanRich;4504399]Never tried the sugar bowl before but thinking of giving it a shot. I always assumed I needed a lot more money but based on the posts I'm reading, it looks like it's not what I thought. I do have one question though, what is an FC? I read back a few pages but couldn't quite figure out what it means. I kept coming back to Fun (Fuck) cabin. Do some of you own a place that you can bring girls to? I would have to rely on hotels, AirBnB or car dates.

Thanks.

RR.[/QUOTE]I'm not sure that this is a hobby that I'd consider inexpensive to participate in. I'm sure there are ways to save money here and there but from what I've learned in my short 7 ish weeks is you have to pay to play. Rough numbers here but I had 14 meeting at a FC with 7 girls ranging from 19-22 yo in 6 weeks and have spent about 4200 in total between the girls and hotel rooms and SA membership. 3 of the girls provided the FC so there was no cost involved for those. I don't meet these girls anywhere except the FC so there have been no lunch / dinner / coffee expenses. The one I did meet at tropical smoothie I didn't ever get to the FC. I have bought a couple of the girls a vibrator because they said they never owned one and agreed to toy play during the meeting.

You also have to look at the time that is involved as time is money. I'm a relatively young and decent looking guy and it takes a ton of time to convince these girls to meet you. I've messaged hundreds of girls within 100 miles of Richmond and spent many hours talking to the ones that message back. Sure you'll find one that will agree to meet you in the first 10 texts but those are really just pros advertising on SA. I know one guy recently said he is only paying $ on average for his sb's per meet but in my experience, the 18-22 yo sb's aren't interested in anything less than $250 per meet and it's usually higher. I'm basically just saying that this is much harder and more expensive than calling up a escort or pro.

[QUOTE=ItsAHobby45;4504644]I'm not sure that this is a hobby that I'd consider inexpensive to participate in. I'm sure there are ways to save money here and there but from what I've learned in my short 7 ish weeks is you have to pay to play. Rough numbers here but I had 14 meeting at a FC with 7 girls ranging from 19-22 yo in 6 weeks and have spent about 4200 in total between the girls and hotel rooms and SA membership. 3 of the girls provided the FC so there was no cost involved for those. I don't meet these girls anywhere except the FC so there have been no lunch / dinner / coffee expenses. The one I did meet at tropical smoothie I didn't ever get to the FC. I have bought a couple of the girls a vibrator because they said they never owned one and agreed to toy play during the meeting.

You also have to look at the time that is involved as time is money. I'm a relatively young and decent looking guy and it takes a ton of time to convince these girls to meet you. I've messaged hundreds of girls within 100 miles of Richmond and spent many hours talking to the ones that message back. Sure you'll find one that will agree to meet you in the first 10 texts but those are really just pros advertising on SA. I know one guy recently said he is only paying $ on average for his sb's per meet but in my experience, the 18-22 yo sb's aren't interested in anything less than $250 per meet and it's usually higher. I'm basically just saying that this is much harder and more expensive than calling up a escort or pro.[/QUOTE]Thanks. I appreciate the level of detail. I wasn't expecting inexpensive but thinking it was about the same as escorts with better girls and service. Looks like I'll have to dip my toe in and see what it's like. I was also considering just using Tinder. It's wired for me in the past but I was traveling for work all the time so it was easier. I'm not too concerned about age, in fact a more long term affair with no strings attached is my ideal. Thanks again for all the help. Have plenty to think about before I decide to make the switch from escorts.

RR.

[QUOTE=RomanRich;4504664]Thanks. I appreciate the level of detail. I wasn't expecting inexpensive but thinking it was about the same as escorts with better girls and service. Looks like I'll have to dip my toe in and see what it's like. I was also considering just using Tinder. It's wired for me in the past but I was traveling for work all the time so it was easier. I'm not too concerned about age, in fact a more long term affair with no strings attached is my ideal. Thanks again for all the help. Have plenty to think about before I decide to make the switch from escorts.

RR.[/QUOTE]You need to spend several days reading all of the highlights / archives of posts on this thread over the past several years. It is separate from this thread. You should also read this thread as far back as you can afford in time. There are all sorts of tricks newbies need to know. I am guessing you are actually in the Richmond area, but this thread has become the de facto national thread on sugaring. You get the benefit of lots of wisdom and experience.

[QUOTE=ItsAHobby45;4504644]I'm not sure that this is a hobby that I'd consider inexpensive to participate in. I'm sure there are ways to save money here and there but from what I've learned in my short 7 ish weeks is you have to pay to play. Rough numbers here but I had 14 meeting at a FC with 7 girls ranging from 19-22 yo in 6 weeks and have spent about 4200 in total between the girls and hotel rooms and SA membership. 3 of the girls provided the FC so there was no cost involved for those. I don't meet these girls anywhere except the FC so there have been no lunch / dinner / coffee expenses. The one I did meet at tropical smoothie I didn't ever get to the FC. I have bought a couple of the girls a vibrator because they said they never owned one and agreed to toy play during the meeting.

You also have to look at the time that is involved as time is money. I'm a relatively young and decent looking guy and it takes a ton of time to convince these girls to meet you. I've messaged hundreds of girls within 100 miles of Richmond and spent many hours talking to the ones that message back. Sure you'll find one that will agree to meet you in the first 10 texts but those are really just pros advertising on SA. I know one guy recently said he is only paying $ on average for his sb's per meet but in my experience, the 18-22 yo sb's aren't interested in anything less than $250 per meet and it's usually higher. I'm basically just saying that this is much harder and more expensive than calling up a escort or pro.[/QUOTE]This is good insight and I agree that pursuing an SB is much more expensive. I usually feel like I need to keep seeing them on a regular basis, especially after all the investment in time to get them to the FC, so that makes it even more expensive, whereas with an escort you don't feel bad about not seeing them again. But a big difference between SBs and escorts, which has been pointed out on the forum many times, is that SBs usually choose you. I mean they actually have to like you to have sex. And a certain fraction of SBs actually prefer older men because we are, they think, better at having sex than younger men -- more attentive, more experienced, etc. Of course, there's a limit to this, I mean you can't be "too old" (I feel like I'm approaching that limit, sadly). But if you run into an SB who likes you like that it can be highly addictive and damaging to the savings account, LOL.

Having said that, there are certainly escorts who love sex, and I'm sure some hardcore escorts have infiltrated the SB ranks, so its hard to make generalizations.

[QUOTE=ItsAHobby45;4504644]I'm not sure that this is a hobby that I'd consider inexpensive to participate in. I'm sure there are ways to save money here and there but from what I've learned in my short 7 ish weeks is you have to pay to play. Rough numbers here but I had 14 meeting at a FC with 7 girls ranging from 19-22 yo in 6 weeks and have spent about 4200 in total between the girls and hotel rooms and SA membership. 3 of the girls provided the FC so there was no cost involved for those. I don't meet these girls anywhere except the FC so there have been no lunch / dinner / coffee expenses. The one I did meet at tropical smoothie I didn't ever get to the FC. I have bought a couple of the girls a vibrator because they said they never owned one and agreed to toy play during the meeting........[/QUOTE]Your post hits a lot of good points, quite accurately. I am the guy who mentioned a few pages back about $ ppm at the FC. So far, still works for hot babes.

One way to think about SBs is like eBay. The exact same item can be bought at price X and at 2 X a couple pages away. Also, the one at X could even include free shipping, while the most expensive one does not. SBs are no different. The only difference being one cannot sort by price and terms before messaging, so there is a big cost there in terms of time.

We have had similar experiences. I was on SA for 4 weeks (I let membership pause for now). I had 15 chances (maybe a couple more than that) in that month to go to the FC of which I turned down 8. Nice girls, but they wanted more than $$ and they did not look or sound any better than the ones who take $. Therefore, I saw them as over-priced, just like same item on eBay at different prices. (Interesting that the girls think in whole numbers it seems - $ gets accepted, but then the next jump is either $$ or $$$ or $$$$. Of all the girls, only one quoted $$5.).

The fact that we had just about the same number of opportunities says a lot about the process, i.e., when something requires a specific amount of time and effort, there could be only so much results in a given time period. Pretty much like weight-lifting as a natural lifter; you can only grow so much muscle so fast no matter how much you lift in a month.

I believe, like you, I just stuck to it day after day and committed about 2 hours each day (sometimes little more) to contacting girls, texting back etc. I was methodical and made sure I was doing something with 4 to 6 girls each day my membership was active. And to show how much this matters, I did not secure the SBs I had until the last 3 days of my membership. One I got because she texted me after my membership had run out.

It took one month to get 5 SBs, 2 of which are regulars who I can get one in afternoon and one in evening, thereby, having only one FC expenditure for both. In the process of setting up a similar arrangement in another town 20 miles away in other direction. That is one way to reduce FC costs. Now, I can afford the additional FC costs and higher ppm, but why if I do not have to? To me, that would be like buying the higher priced item on eBay knowing the same item can be had for 1/2 that with free shipping. I partake in the age range 19 - 22, with one being 28.

The one thing I know that gets me the $ ppm is that the girls actually like hanging out with me. They relax, take showers while talking to me, watch movies, and giggle like hell. They have said directly that they like the fact that they never feel pressure to do anything. It kind of just flows when they get there and each time I get great pussy.

I am older, but in good shape and do look younger by over a decade, so I believe that helps.

Again, great post.

[QUOTE=ItsAHobby45;4504644]I'm basically just saying that this is much harder and more expensive than calling up a escort or pro.[/QUOTE]Please allow me to give a slightly different perspective:

I do think this is accurate only if one is continuously chasing different girls and essentially paying for a one-off experience each time. One-offs are more expensive because one-offs do not afford one scheduling efficiency and to amortize the costs. Plus, it requires the time to get each one.

I have been at the FC regularly now for a month after my membership paused and have had no additional costs in time, membership fees, and I am getting a better value each time because the SBs stay longer and longer for the same ppm.

On a per hour / value of pussy basis, the SBs are multiple times less expensive. Even at $$ or $$$, a pro would give you like 45 minutes to 1 hr max. SBs easily stay 3-4 hours and fuck you 3 times.

Therefore, I do think it is kind of comparing apples to oranges; yes, both are fruits, but completely different experiences for the money. At least for me, the SBs are a much higher value and higher pussy enjoyment overall, as none feel like a pro / escort transaction and the session lasts for hrs.

[QUOTE=ItsAHobby45;4504644]I'm not sure that this is a hobby that I'd consider inexpensive to participate in. I'm sure there are ways to save money here and there but from what I've learned in my short 7 ish weeks is you have to pay to play. Rough numbers here but I had 14 meeting at a FC with 7 girls ranging from 19-22 yo in 6 weeks and have spent about 4200 in total between the girls and hotel rooms and SA membership. 3 of the girls provided the FC so there was no cost involved for those. I don't meet these girls anywhere except the FC so there have been no lunch / dinner / coffee expenses. The one I did meet at tropical smoothie I didn't ever get to the FC. I have bought a couple of the girls a vibrator because they said they never owned one and agreed to toy play during the meeting.

You also have to look at the time that is involved as time is money. I'm a relatively young and decent looking guy and it takes a ton of time to convince these girls to meet you. I've messaged hundreds of girls within 100 miles of Richmond and spent many hours talking to the ones that message back. Sure you'll find one that will agree to meet you in the first 10 texts but those are really just pros advertising on SA. I know one guy recently said he is only paying $ on average for his sb's per meet but in my experience, the 18-22 yo sb's aren't interested in anything less than $250 per meet and it's usually higher. I'm basically just saying that this is much harder and more expensive than calling up a escort or pro.[/QUOTE]All I'll say is that If you're a decent looking guy and relatively young, your cost per meet should be lower than 200.

Even if you're not that young, 150 to 250 is pretty good for 2-4 hours of fun with a fresh flower under 30. And guys my age have plenty of time to invest in the chase.

[QUOTE=BookerTNelson;4505054]All I'll say is that If you're a decent looking guy and relatively young, your cost per meet should be lower than 200.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ItsAHobby45;4504644]I'm not sure that this is a hobby that I'd consider inexpensive to participate in. I'm sure there are ways to save money here and there but from what I've learned in my short 7 ish weeks is you have to pay to play. Rough numbers here but I had 14 meeting at a FC with 7 girls ranging from 19-22 yo in 6 weeks and have spent about 4200 in total between the girls and hotel rooms and SA membership. 3 of the girls provided the FC so there was no cost involved for those. I don't meet these girls anywhere except the FC so there have been no lunch / dinner / coffee expenses. The one I did meet at tropical smoothie I didn't ever get to the FC. I have bought a couple of the girls a vibrator because they said they never owned one and agreed to toy play during the meeting.

You also have to look at the time that is involved as time is money. I'm a relatively young and decent looking guy and it takes a ton of time to convince these girls to meet you. I've messaged hundreds of girls within 100 miles of Richmond and spent many hours talking to the ones that message back. Sure you'll find one that will agree to meet you in the first 10 texts but those are really just pros advertising on SA. I know one guy recently said he is only paying $ on average for his sb's per meet but in my experience, the 18-22 yo sb's aren't interested in anything less than $250 per meet and it's usually higher. I'm basically just saying that this is much harder and more expensive than calling up a escort or pro.[/QUOTE]When I first joined Seeking, which was many years ago, I overpaid to meet some SBs. I remember giving one really hot SB four figures for CIM. It was worth it, but I'm sure I could have gotten it for $$ if I was thinking with the big head.

I also chased hot ones who were far away from me.

Over time, I've gotten better at being s SD, including realizing that it's never worth driving more than 30 minutes to see a SB. Even better, just offer them some extra cash to drive to you if you want to see a specific one who is far away. If they show up, great. If not, you don't waste your time and feel like a jackass for driving 1. 5 hours to be ghosted.

Most of these SBs are deeply damaged, on psych meds, and / or in deep financial and personal trouble. The kind of people who win the lottery and are bankrupt a year later. Don't invest too much time or thought into why they do what they do. Many are delusional about their worth. But will come back to reality of you are somewhat attractive to them and they need money.

No matter what anyone tells you, most of these SBs will go to the FC with you for $ to $$$ depending on hotness and desperation and sanity. There are far more SBs than SDs. If you are younger and attractive, $ is totally possible PPM.

[QUOTE=BookerTNelson;4505054]All I'll say is that If you're a decent looking guy and relatively young, your cost per meet should be lower than 200.[/QUOTE]I agree. I'm mid-50's, but still considered attractive for my age. I have no problem getting to the FC for 200 or less with my first choices! I have noticed in recent years it has become more difficult with guys willing to pay 400+ per meet, Social Media telling girls they can make lots of money with platonic or online only dating and the fact I am getting older.

It takes more effort than it used to, but with game it can be done.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;4505665]I agree. I'm mid-50's, but still considered attractive for my age. I have no problem getting to the FC for 200 or less with my first choices! I have noticed in recent years it has become more difficult with guys willing to pay 400+ per meet, Social Media telling girls they can make lots of money with platonic or online only dating and the fact I am getting older.

It takes more effort than it used to, but with game it can be done.[/QUOTE]This is dead on.

One thing about SBs is they are all different re motives. I specifically scope out girls who are not there just for the money. I can tell which girls are there for the thrill, companionship, or they are just plain tired of guys their age. Those SBs are not motivated solely by the money. Bottomline, many are tired of giving it away for free to younger guys who treat them bad. Plus, the young guys do not know how to fuck them well.

You are correct. Social Media is selling these girls a bunch of nonsense. Yes, SDs exist who pay exorbitant amounts, but they are in very limited in supply. Unless the girl is beyond awesome, he might see once or twice. However, that is very different than getting a steady SD or a stream of SDs over time to pay that. Very few SBs ever get to that level. I told a couple who quoted me (w / out my prompting) 4 and 5 bills. I told them get back to me when they are more reasonable. A month later after I am off the site, guess who I get 2 texts from? They never found those regular SDs at that rate. But, I had already moved on with better, nicer prospects at 1 bill ppm, so they were not even worth the 2 bills they wanted now.

[QUOTE=DogBert77;4459442]
There has been some discussion on here about whether to treat these girls like dates, or whether your interaction is different. I would like to offer my views. I try to project a mix of several personas. One is a date. Not a good guy, earnest kind of date that they could see a long term relationship with, but a "bad boy" who clearly wants to get in their pants, is leaving town next week, but is hell of lot of fun in the meantime. Another persona I think of as that high school gym teacher or coach that made them kind of nervous because they weren't sure if he was checking their ass out, but they still liked him and wanted his approval. The third is an authority figure, like a professor or a boss. They clearly want his approval and aren't sure if they are good enough to get it. So I sort of cycle back and forth between these personas and keep them off balance. For example, I don't hesitate to offer value judgments on their life choices or to tell them what they should do. This is something the bad boy date would never do. Conversely, after a glass or two of wine I don't hide it I am looking down their blouse or checking their ass when they get up to go to the bathroom. This is something their professor or boss (usually) doesn't want to be seen doing. Finally, of course, is Daddy. An enormous percentage, maybe all, of these girls have daddy issues. I don't want to act like THEIR daddy, of course. The incest angle creeps me out. But I am a real daddy, and I talk about how my kids get a lot of attention and opportunities. I make it clear that they come before nay sugar daddy activities. I want to seem like the daddy they wish they had had, so they will crave my attention and approval. And we ll know how they can get my attention and approval, right?
[/QUOTE]Thanks for sharing, our experiences are really really similar from top to bottom. The above part of this great post is what I found the most interesting b / c I've been handling many of them this way and switching between almost the exact same personas, without realizing the different roles I'm playing. That's not to say it's something that came naturally, it didn't at all, it's more been a process of just repeating and refining what seems to work over many girls and many years.

I suppose it can depend on your area, but done correctly SA is not more expensive than the escort scene here judging by that board. They're paying $$ for an hour or less in most cases, which is similar what I pay ongoing gals for multiple hours. When you consider the quality difference, the idea that I can get longer for the same price makes it a much better value. Those girls are not that attractive, older, and most are druggies here. Yes if someone is on SA and agreeing to $$ and you only keep them 45 minutes for one pop I can see how they find it expensive but that's their approach.

No, to me the difference is not price. It's actually incredible value done correctly because the same number of FC's from SA should cost about the same as FC's with working girls, for an experience that is 100 times better. No the drawback to SA TIME. This takes a ton of effort. An absolute ton. And time has value too.

[QUOTE=HappyHunter44;4505042]
On a per hour / value of pussy basis, the SBs are multiple times less expensive. Even at $$ or $$$, a pro would give you like 45 minutes to 1 hr max. SBs easily stay 3-4 hours and fuck you 3 times.

Therefore, I do think it is kind of comparing apples to oranges; yes, both are fruits, but completely different experiences for the money. At least for me, the SBs are a much higher value and higher pussy enjoyment overall, as none feel like a pro / escort transaction and the session lasts for hrs.[/QUOTE]