"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=HappyHunter44;4421087]I have been in the bowl all of 4 days and would like to share a little about my experience.

First off though, a really huge shout out to the mongers who contribute to this SB thread. I have been reading it for the last 2 years and when I joined the bowl, I felt like a veteran with the knowledge I had. Much appreciated!

My ground rules are: sticking mainly with 18 - 22. Have 2 in early 30's, but wow time is never kind to women it seems. The stark difference between a 20 and 30 year-old is really highlighted in SA. Even 26 shows a big slide in looks.

Results so far in 4 days:

1. Got the numbers of 12 SBs - 10 of which are DTF. Only dealing with DTF ones. Had a few others, but if not DTF I am out.

2. Of the 10 SBs, 8 agreed to BBFS.

3. Of the 8 BBFS, 6 agreed to CIP.

4. Of the 6, I might ditch 2 because they were clearly serious UTR pros. One said had motel in area (without prompting) and the other straight out asked "how much I will pay. " A bit too transactional (STG-ish) for me. One looks really nice so I might still see her once if I can get a reasonable rate for multiple pops.

5. Of the 4 left, have 2 meet and greets scheduled next week. No discussion of $ yet. One agreed to meet at FC with still no discussion of $ yet. We will see if she follows through.

6. I will take a couple gift cards with me and the usual stuff the veterans recommend. I will also take some hard cash to keep everything on the up and up because they say they need "help". And we all know they are on SA for financial assistance. As one monger put it a couple days ago, most of these girls are just one step above a standard hooker. SA gives them cover to pretend they are not. Hey, to them, an arrangement is not a cash for sex transaction. OK, whatever floats their boat.

7. I have couple POTs who only communicate on the site for now. They are also DTF, but not counting them until I have number and we move to texting and meet and greet set-up.

8. I told a couple 18 yr-olds that I would need to see ID. They looked way, way young. And they both ghosted me. Good. That means they are nothing but trouble.

9. Already ran into one that told me she had the incurable H. At least she was honest, I guess. Dropped her obviously. Another 19 year-old said she had endometriosis after the issue of whether she was DTF came up. Hmm. Sounds like a scam because she was all fun and games until the DTF part came up. Clueless. Why have those pics of the bod if cannot put out? Personally, I think it is a ruse, but moving on.

10. I have 35 messages still to be opened and read. One thing I learned is that, for most of these SBs, communication is not a strong attribute. Well, may explain partly why they are on the site to begin with. Easier to post a profile than actually talk to a guy in person to get what they want.

11. I agree that many come and go on the site based on $$ needs. I just do not get the impression based on conversation that most get a dedicated SD. Not sure what the point of that would be with all the new 18 - 22 always joining the site. Of the 4 meet and greets scheduled 2 are all new, within 5 days of joining.

12. Found some very good intel using the site recommended a couple pages back by senior member FarFarAway. Thanks dude.

[URL]https://www.truepeoplesearch.com[/URL]

Dam, I knew one girl was living with her grandmother before she told me. One thing with this site is you have to manually enter the phone numbers, as cut and paste does not work and returns an error (at least it did for me) - guess that is to prevent bots wreaking havoc.

Have not tried the there site yet. Also posted By FarFarAway:

[URL]https://www.familytreenow.com[/URL]

13. I do not have pic on my profile and it did not seem to impact much. So far. I can put a "fake" one that is close if I find it becomes an issue. Only 4 or 5 asked for a pic and I told them I needed total 100% discretion and had no issue meeting in public. All except one agreed to that.

14. Overall, I will see what happens with these, but for 12 real number contacts and the majority DTF and half BBFS in 4 days I am not complaining. We will see what shakes out in the wash as actual DTFs in person. Also one thing I found is if I put my number at the end of the text message over 80% of SBs just text me instead of messaging through the site. The other 20% I just said text me and they did.

Again, thanks for all the advice in advance and especially to Truncated, The Cardinal and DogBert77 for making signing up with pre-paid card an easy task.[/QUOTE]A word of caution. Any SA girl who promises FC before meeting is either a pro or a scammer or (worst possibility) some kind of a string. I think most experienced guys on here prefer a little more discreet messaging to set up a M / G at which time they either close the deal, arrange a future date to close the deal, or walk away.

What I am going to share could be controversial, but I have had success with it, so I am going to go ahead. I noted that whenever I meet a girl in person first time, if she looked much better than her photos suggested, my confidence level and trust with her instantly goes way up. My inclination to close the deal goes way high. So, I decided to try that on girls. I always share my own photos (after I built some trust) with girls. So, I send few photos that are not the best angles, not best clothes (somewhat less attractive than actually I am). If she agrees to meet, I show up in my best shape, well dressed and the best possible attractive way. I can see their eyes lit up and they get comfortable with me very quickly. (In fact, few told me I looked much better in person than in photos). The conversation is much easier and no probing questions (compared to what I experienced before using the techniques). Nowadays, my rate of closing the deal is almost 100% (from my acceptance point of view) after I meet a girl in person. May be it is a coincidence I got better with more experience, but I have a good feeling the photo technique at least helped me in closing deals. I am not a psychologist or anyone, but there may be theory around this. Just wanted to share.

Play Safe.

Dr. S.

So many ways to skin a cat!

[QUOTE=DrSummer;4421616]What I am going to share could be controversial, but I have had success with it, so I am going to go ahead. I noted that whenever I meet a girl in person first time, if she looked much better than her photos suggested, my confidence level and trust with her instantly goes way up. My inclination to close the deal goes way high. So, I decided to try that on girls. I always share my own photos (after I built some trust) with girls. So, I send few photos that are not the best angles, not best clothes (somewhat less attractive than actually I am). If she agrees to meet, I show up in my best shape, well dressed and the best possible attractive way. I can see their eyes lit up and they get comfortable with me very quickly. (In fact, few told me I looked much better in person than in photos). The conversation is much easier and no probing questions (compared to what I experienced before using the techniques). Nowadays, my rate of closing the deal is almost 100% (from my acceptance point of view) after I meet a girl in person. May be it is a coincidence I got better with more experience, but I have a good feeling the photo technique at least helped me in closing deals. I am not a psychologist or anyone, but there may be theory around this. Just wanted to share.

Play Safe.

Dr. S.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=KevinCalormis;4421273]It doesn't sound like you have met any of them yet?? Am I reading this correctly?[/QUOTE]This is correct.

I am not calling this a success yet by a long shot because I have not hit any of these SBs yet. However, I have them planning meet and greets, which must be done to get their panties on the floor. Most have already given me their schedules and available times. We will see if any pan out. I am aware the flake factor is high having been on backpage for years. We know how that goes.

Here a couple more things I will add my initial list of my 4-day experience in the Bowl. I cannot stress enough how important it is to read this thread and get a good feel of the Bowl before plunging in. It really does help. Already caught 3 scammers, but I recognized them immediately because of what others posted here.

Here is the link to the initial list: [URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?9746-quot-Sugarbabies-quot-quot-Arrangements-quot-Amateurs-or-Not&p=4421087[/URL]#post4421087.

13. The girls who are online for what seems all day are either scammers or flat out pros. I guess they could have the app open all day on their phones, but it seems more like scammers and pros would be the ones on that much. I am all ears for a different interpretation.

14. The SBs who respond with "OK Luv," "Hey babes," and "Hey Good Looking" (when I have no picture) have to be pros or experienced UTRs. I just ditch those. Sounds too familiar to backpage days.

15. You have to be dominant in communication, as in bed. Clarity is not their strength and unless you guide the conversation exactly and are clear in what you expect they will not get it most times. They need guidance, sometimes heavy guidance. But, 95% will follow along.

[QUOTE=HappyHunter44;4421880]

13. The girls who are online for what seems all day are either scammers or flat out pros. I guess they could have the app open all day on their phones, but it seems more like scammers and pros would be the ones on that much. I am all ears for a different interpretation.[/QUOTE]Have you been around a college girl lately? They are always on there phones. Seeking shows them as active for an hour after their last activity. It's entirely reasonable for them to be "active" 90% of the time.

[QUOTE=HappyHunter44;4421880]15. You have to be dominant in communication, as in bed. Clarity is not their strength and unless you guide the conversation exactly and are clear in what you expect they will not get it most times. They need guidance, sometimes heavy guidance. But, 95% will follow along.[/QUOTE]I have found this not to be the case at all. Besides suggesting meeting at the FC I try to stay away from specific discussions of sex with the SB. I would never bring up BBFS before the meet, if I want it I play dumb and say I don't have condoms. Most won't mention it before and once they are at the FC they have $$$ signs in there eyes and want to get it done.

Keep in mind, if you are getting the true 18-22 yo gems they are ashamed to be hookers, and looking to engage in the fantasy that this is different. The difference between meeting an older dude at a hotel for $700 and meeting an older dude at at hotel for $700 with "BBFSCIP" negotiated before hand is huge in their mind. These girls are ******, but they act a lot sluttier when you let them believe they are different then a backpage hooker. I just took a 19 yo girls anal ch*rry in her dorm this week. Didn't mention anal or any other details before, but I brought lube and condoms. I only used the lube.

Also, unless you're paying stupid money they will spend the next few days leading up to your date looking for a better offer since they have already seen your cards.

[QUOTE=DrSummer;4421616]What I am going to share could be controversial, but I have had success with it, so I am going to go ahead. I noted that whenever I meet a girl in person first time, if she looked much better than her photos suggested, my confidence level and trust with her instantly goes way up. My inclination to close the deal goes way high. So, I decided to try that on girls. I always share my own photos (after I built some trust) with girls. So, I send few photos that are not the best angles, not best clothes (somewhat less attractive than actually I am). If she agrees to meet, I show up in my best shape, well dressed and the best possible attractive way. I can see their eyes lit up and they get comfortable with me very quickly. (In fact, few told me I looked much better in person than in photos). The conversation is much easier and no probing questions (compared to what I experienced before using the techniques). Nowadays, my rate of closing the deal is almost 100% (from my acceptance point of view) after I meet a girl in person. May be it is a coincidence I got better with more experience, but I have a good feeling the photo technique at least helped me in closing deals. I am not a psychologist or anyone, but there may be theory around this. Just wanted to share.

Play Safe.

Dr. S.[/QUOTE]Ironically, this is one of the reasons I do not send a picture at all. The shift in their demeanor always works to my advantage, also being younger than 95% of the site and being attractive helps immensely to getting the them over the hump with drastic discounts.

Any info on this one. [URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/4cdc84a9-fcb6-4dd8-a89f-0a04b40e37c3[/URL].

[QUOTE=KevinCalormis;4421933]Have you been around a college girl lately? They are always on there phones. Seeking shows them as active for an hour after their last activity. It's entirely reasonable for them to be "active" 90% of the time.[/QUOTE]I definitely see your point. I agree this could be the case.

[QUOTE=KevinCalormis;4421948]I have found this not to be the case at all. Besides suggesting meeting at the FC I try to stay away from specific discussions of sex with the SB. I would never bring up BBFS before the meet, if I want it I play dumb and say I don't have condoms. Most won't mention it before and once they are at the FC they have $$$ signs in there eyes and want to get it done.

Keep in mind, if you are getting the true 18-22 yo gems they are ashamed to be hookers, and looking to engage in the fantasy that this is different. The difference between meeting an older dude at a hotel for $700 and meeting an older dude at at hotel for $700 with "BBFSCIP" negotiated before hand is huge in their mind. These girls are ******, but they act a lot sluttier when you let them believe they are different then a backpage hooker. I just took a 19 yo girls anal ch*rry in her dorm this week. Didn't mention anal or any other details before, but I brought lube and condoms. I only used the lube.

Also, unless you're paying stupid money they will spend the next few days leading up to your date looking for a better offer since they have already seen your cards.[/QUOTE]You made some huge assumptions, so your take on what I am doing is rather off. However, I understand how you might have gotten to your viewpoint.

1. None of my messages on SA or in text mentions BBFS or cip or anything like that. In fact, no specific activity is mentioned by me at all.

2. Additionally, none of messages or text mentions $ amounts for any sexual activities or any $ amounts at all.

3. To all SBs who asked about money, I state I do not discuss $ unless in person at a meet and greet. If I lose out on an SB for that, that is fine. So far though, 90% have continued planning to meet and greet even after I refuse to mention $ amount. At the meet and greet, I will then decide what to say about $. I have to see them in person first. We will see if the meet and greets happen.

4. None of these SBs are worth over 2 bills, so would never pay anything like you cite. I cannot get it up for even average babes. Even just moderately plump, forget about it. My wife was a former Ford model in New York. So you have an idea the look I go after. Followed after her Mom who was Ford model also. Wife still looks hot today, but she is still 54, not 20. Those were the days. She was free when I met her.

5. You are confusing dominant with forceful. Dominant means directing the conversation towards what one wants, even if stated in a very soft way. I wrote a book on rhetoric used by colleges and universities and the most dominant approach is also the most suave approach. That is because it directs the conversation towards your goals without even seeming to do that and it is the receiving party who thinks she reached the decisions on her own.

6. And rhetoric is the key. All the girls so far have gotten around to understanding that I want BBFS with cip and I never ever have brought up those terms or activities. They do!! There is nothing in my messages or texts that SA or anyone can say I asked for BBFS, cip, or that I linked $ to a sexual activity. Nothing at all.

7 While I agree that there are SB similarities, the country is regional and some things work culturally in some areas and not others. I recall being able to get BBFS in Florida much, much easier than in Wash DC during the craigslist days some 10 - 12 years ago. It was literally impossible to get in WY. At least for me. I mean from $100 - 200 hookers, not the $400+ ones that Miami Companions used to have. Never paid for those. In the region I am in now, moderate size towns surrounded by rural areas, I am trying to see what works here.

As stated below, it will be interesting to see if it works out and I get to bag a few babes. It is all just fun.

Must be something else for them to bring up wanting to have BBFS and CIP with you. 👏, though in your first message you say they agreed to. Which appears like you brought this up. Not trying to be argumentative but there is a disconnect in your post about that.

[QUOTE=HappyHunter44;4422181]You made some huge assumptions, so your take on what I am doing is rather off. However, I understand how you might have gotten to your viewpoint.

1. None of my messages on SA or in text mentions BBFS or cip or anything like that. In fact, no specific activity is mentioned by me at all.

2. Additionally, none of messages or text mentions $ amounts for any sexual activities or any $ amounts at all.

3. To all SBs who asked about money, I state I do not discuss $ unless in person at a meet and greet. If I lose out on an SB for that, that is fine. So far though, 90% have continued planning to meet and greet even after I refuse to mention $ amount. At the meet and greet, I will then decide what to say about $. I have to see them in person first. We will see if the meet and greets happen.

4. None of these SBs are worth over 2 bills, so would never pay anything like you cite. I cannot get it up for even average babes. Even just moderately plump, forget about it. My wife was a former Ford model in New York. So you have an idea the look I go after. Followed after her Mom who was Ford model also. Wife still looks hot today, but she is still 54, not 20. Those were the days. She was free when I met her.

5. You are confusing dominant with forceful. Dominant means directing the conversation towards what one wants, even if stated in a very soft way. I wrote a book on rhetoric used by colleges and universities and the most dominant approach is also the most suave approach. That is because it directs the conversation towards your goals without even seeming to do that and it is the receiving party who thinks she reached the decisions on her own.

6. And rhetoric is the key. All the girls so far have gotten around to understanding that I want BBFS with cip and I never ever have brought up those terms or activities. They do!! There is nothing in my messages or texts that SA or anyone can say I asked for BBFS, cip, or that I linked $ to a sexual activity. Nothing at all.

7 While I agree that there are SB similarities, the country is regional and some things work culturally in some areas and not others. I recall being able to get BBFS in Florida much, much easier than in Wash DC during the craigslist days some 10 - 12 years ago. It was literally impossible to get in WY. At least for me. I mean from $100 - 200 hookers, not the $400+ ones that Miami Companions used to have. Never paid for those. In the region I am in now, moderate size towns surrounded by rural areas, I am trying to see what works here.

As stated below, it will be interesting to see if it works out and I get to bag a few babes. It is all just fun.[/QUOTE].

[QUOTE=BStreet;4422227]Must be something else for them to bring up wanting to have BBFS and CIP with you. 👏, though in your first message you say they agreed to. Which appears like you brought this up. Not trying to be argumentative but there is a disconnect in your post about that.

.[/QUOTE]Ya that was what I read. But good luck? Let us know if you get any of these gals in bed...

[QUOTE=BStreet;4422227]Must be something else for them to bring up wanting to have BBFS and CIP with you. 👏, though in your first message you say they agreed to. Which appears like you brought this up. Not trying to be argumentative but there is a disconnect in your post about that.

.[/QUOTE]Have you guys not taken rhetoric in school? People agree to things very easily and all the time without the other party bringing it up specifically. In fact, 90%+ of all decisions and agreements made by humans are actually implied situational decisions and agreements. This is why the college / university Title IX tribunal sex stuff is such a mess. Men and women do not agree to specific actions; they agree to an accepted environment and act within that environment, which include a range of actions.

SBs are no different; the mistake people make is that they do not set the environment for the decision-taking process for the actions they want to take place. There are tons of negotiating books that show how to set the table for a specific outcome in a business meeting before the meeting even takes place. Where college guys go wrong is that there is no discussion of the expected environment at all. However, a discussion with the girl being the one to suggest certain activities is what guys should be setting up. That is the approach I take.

Please note that I said they bring up BBFS specifically?? This means, the environment of the conversation made it something they thought of. It is not that hard to do. And when they bring it up, all I need to say it that sounds good, but we will see how we connect first. Notice, I did not even return the favor of mentioning the activity or fully agreeing to it. However, 1) it makes it clear that could really happen and 2) it makes it so it will happen if I do not object later on.

We just have different approaches. The last thing I need is a girl saying I did not use a cover when she thought I would or that I never got her permission. If it is on record she was the one who mentioned BBFS and was trying to see if I was fine with it, then at least I have a defense.

There are more than one way to skin a cat. My approach has worked for me to get BBFS for decades without the girl not expecting it. I cannot remember a time a girl asked me if I brought cover. She had already decided before I got there.

[QUOTE=HappyHunter44;4422301]Have you [/QUOTE]Have you banged these hoes yet? If not, go forth and conquer. Report back after laying pipe. We expect a numbered list, too.

[QUOTE=Grafenberg;4422307]Have you banged these hoes yet? If not, go forth and conquer. Report back after laying pipe. We expect a numbered list, too.[/QUOTE]I have been on here all of 100 hours. I am just reporting what I am doing to try and start things off. I plan to be on SA for a month or two. Hopefully get enough contacts and find a 3 or 4 solid SBs for the school year. I will be fine with that. I am thinking I am doing something partially right because enough girls are "wasting" their time talking to me and setting up stuff. If other stuff were better, they would have blown me off already. For many of them, I can tell by their speech patterns that not much is going on that they want, even if they have other prospects they are talking to. Trying to fill that gap. I will see if I can convert a few. May so, maybe not. For 90/ mo worth a shot though.