"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=SbabyBlog; 1452059]I've seen posts like this before and didn't quite have the words to chime in on the topic, but I seem to have found them. I'm sorry but I find it funny that you all seem to be annoyed at SB's who make sure the sugar aspect is nailed down before they do anything. While, I will admit this isn't really my style, any new SB who has done her research has read a number of experienced SB's write that this is a must.

The topic of negotiating sugar is well written about and discussed in the SB world. And, we are MUCH more connected than the SD's are. While there aren't lesson on tact, the message does come across that all of the details need to be nailed down before any visits to the fc occur.

Like I said, not my thing, because I do look for more than the allowance but you shouldn't discount a new SB just because of that. She is most likely just doing what she's read.

Mandy[/QUOTE]Mandy,

I always felt that the ones who I kept for a longer period usually shot themselves in their foot by negotiating sugar upfront. Quite often after a first dive under I would have given more sugar than they negotiated for at the onset. But then that is me.

Thank you for your comments Brothers, you really are helping me get my head straight regarding this.

The overall theme seems to be "Play it safe" followed by carefully watching for Nando1-isms, and taking it slow. As a general rule, I have a very low tolerance towards drama, and I may find myself having to cut off contact after the first sure-to-come crisis that always seems to follow Nando1's.

That seems like the path I was going down regardless, but you gentlemen have helped to reinforce the need for secrecy, and there are steps laid out here that I have not thought about prior that I will have to take.

- Nando, to answer your query regarding #5:

[Quote]This is what happened

1) she said she felt too attracted to me and did not want to get emotionally involved,

2) I sounded like a creeper to her and grossed her out;

3) I talked her into meeting later and when I arrived the police were waiting;

4) I called her right back and after talking we agreed to meet later that night which we did, and we matched orgasms for 3 hours.

5) something else

Tell me what you think happened and I will let you know the answer tomorrow.[/QUOTE]Knowing what I have read about you, #5 could potentially have been anything from:

A) The police came back to raid your FC and carted you away, charging you with 'unnatural, unprotected, lascivious acts against the laws of nature'

- to.

B) She picked up the FC tab & then started giving *You* monthly sugar.

Please do tell. This sounds like a wonderful story. I will be ready with popcorn.

-Scott, hope you survive being grilled by the in-laws. We should hang sometime.

Thank you all, and any more suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

In closing, I have attached exhibits A, B and C so to let you gentlemen know what I am getting myself into (pun intended).

Cheers!

-Chi.

Exhibit A.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]177346[/ATTACH]

Exhibit B.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]177345[/ATTACH]

Exchibit C.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]177344[/ATTACH]

While the basics should be covered before entering the FC, too much hard core business takes the romance out of things for me. I think there should be some room for adjustment after you have that first meet or two. In my case my SB told me what she would agree to to meet me in the FC, essentially PTP. This amount was for an unlimited evening together and also applied to other M&Gs in the future. We didn't hash out every little detail, in fact, we didn't hash out anything else. She stated that she was new to this and not many people had contacted her. I believe that because her profile picture was terrible and not at all a true reflection of her appearance.

My concern with PTP haters and uber negotiators is, how can anyone decide how much Sugar to provide on an allowance basis for someone you don't even know at all? I do believe one has to kick the tires on both sides re: things that are important in the arrangement. For SBs it is security (money) and SDs it is sex. I know many of us are looking for a lot more than just that but those are the essential elements. My SB stated a reasonable amount for the night especially when you consider the CPM (cost per minute) and I negotiated her down. She agreed and when I met her I immediately gave her what she was asking and felt ashamed of myself, for she was worth every penny and far more.

So the bottom line is that I agree with Euro even though I understand Mandy's POV on behalf of the SBs. Girls taking a ball busting approach risk turning off a pot good SD. Perhaps the secret is tact, and that takes brains, maturity, and skill in understanding male mindset.

[QUOTE=SbabyBlog; 1452059]I've seen posts like this before and didn't quite have the words to chime in on the topic, but I seem to have found them. I'm sorry but I find it funny that you all seem to be annoyed at SB's who make sure the sugar aspect is nailed down before they do anything. While, I will admit this isn't really my style, any new SB who has done her research has read a number of experienced SB's write that this is a must.

The topic of negotiating sugar is well written about and discussed in the SB world. And, we are MUCH more connected than the SD's are. While there aren't lesson on tact, the message does come across that all of the details need to be nailed down before any visits to the fc occur.

Like I said, not my thing, because I do look for more than the allowance but you shouldn't discount a new SB just because of that. She is most likely just doing what she's read.

Mandy[/QUOTE]It's not that I was annoyed, but more that I was surprised at just how strongly a) she knew what she wanted, b) knew what to expect, and c) stuck to her guns. Even if it's true she's a real newbie, she is most definitely getting advice somewhere. As a relative newbie myself (at least when it comes to sugar negotiations) I was caught a little off guard.

I guess I do kind of respect her for not caving. I capitulated to her request but have only committed myself for two weeks at a time. We'll re-evaluate then. As Hernando notes, some experiences are worth the asking price.

My friends,

I am heading out of town at the crack of dawn tomorrow to one of my favorite southern cities for a week for work, and I will be reconnecting with a sweet, sweet little baby whom I had the good fortune of meeting a year or so ago. If it can be believed, she has gotten even more adorable since then, (cut her hair shorter - works for me!) and so I will most likely be [I]incommunicado[/I] until I get back.

My ATF situation seems to be showing some serious, and possibly fatal, cracks in the foundation, so this may be the perfect thing for me to help me move on. I have a line or two into the SA pool once again, but my heart, quite honestly, is not fully in the game at this point, so I am happy to be spending time with someone who I already have a rapport with tomorrow evening and hopefully more than that.

In addition, I am hoping to grab a beer or three with a fellow brother down there at some point during the week. Chi, I'd love to do the same with you when we can arrange it.

Life, while not being exactly perfect at the moment, is not without its rewards. As the saying goes, when one door shuts, another opens. If it indeed is over with ATF, I did have 9 fantastic months. The problem will be finding someone that pushes all my buttons without getting impatient with the process. I was scheduled for an M&G this morning with an HYM who sent me some sexy pics, but once I was at the Starbucks she called to say she was still an hour away. I had to pull the plug, and it brought back memories of all the aborted missions I had in the past. Put me in a bit of a cranky mood until I remembered my upcoming babyfest.
Good luck Chi and Joe, and all the other ships at sea that are currently seeking safe harbor. And to my two trusted confidants, thank you.
Keep up the good work all, and don't forget to write,
Scott
PS - Nando, my guess is #4. What do I win if I'm right?

Good luck with your endeavors Mr Scott. If the ATF is indeed over, your *Next* ATF is probably just around the corner, you & her just do not realize it yet. Best of luck with the Southern Baby. Got to love work trips, and being able to put the FCs on the expense report!

Chi.

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1452603]My friends,

I am heading out of town at the crack of dawn tomorrow to one of my favorite southern cities for a week for work, and I will be reconnecting with a sweet, sweet little baby whom I had the good fortune of meeting a year or so ago.[/QUOTE]

Gentlemen,

I have scheduled a vacation day from work, and the FC has been reserved for this coming Friday. The Baby will be meeting me in a restaurant in the lobby in the AM for our 'get to know you' cup of coffee, followed by a few hours of semen extraction & orgasm generation. I plan on getting there at least 1 hour ahead of time to check in, etc. All should be safe. I'm giddy with the possibilities of what is to happen next.

Awaiting the inevitable,

Chi

[QUOTE=Chiguy606;1452175]That seems like the path I was going down regardless, but you gentlemen have helped to reinforce the need for secrecy, and there are steps laid out here that I have not thought about prior that I will have to take.[/QUOTE]

scotty, i appreciate your confidence in me to luck out in the sugar games of life, but alas,"other" was the correct answer. chi man got the year's supply of condoms donated by planned parenthood.

what happened is this and i thought presented a learning opportunity. at least i learned that this girl was a flake and either was ****d and playing at being a player (very dangerous) or she got off on text sex and wasn't ever up for the m&g. she said that i grossed her out when i said "i'm in love" after sexting all day long. i was just being playful and histrionic and going along with the whole scene, but she used that to avoid a real meet.

so when things seem tgtbt, frequently they are.

sorry scott if your atf is flaking on you, but you exhibit a tremendous ability to repopulate the sugar bowl. chi man, looks like you have some sweet activity to keep you busy! good luck and have fun all! nando

[QUOTE=Chiguy606; 1452626]Gentlemen,

I have scheduled a vacation day from work, and the FC has been reserved for this coming Friday. The Baby will be meeting me in a restaurant in the lobby in the AM for our 'get to know you' cup of coffee, followed by a few hours of semen extraction & orgasm generation. I plan on getting there at least 1 hour ahead of time to check in, etc. All should be safe. I'm giddy with the possibilities of what is to happen next.

Awaiting the inevitable,

Chi[/QUOTE]I hope it works out Chiguy. The anticipation is exciting.

My view is that the lady is 50-50 not to show. Why? Well, her communications as you describe them sound more like fantasizing or game-playing than a serious approach. The pix are cute but looked staged to me. There's also a chance she's a pro.

There's at least a 50% chance I'm wrong, and for your sake I hope I am.

If I'm not, you'll be out the cost of your room. I started in my quest for non-pros, which evolved into chasing sbs, waiting in a hotel room for a CL "utr" who sent me sexy pix and said she'd meet me but didn't. I've also waited in vain in a hotel room for my first date with an sb prospect.

Also, meeting an sb prospect in a hotel establishment (a bar in my case) led to unwanted charges on my room bill one time when I left the girl in the bar to go upstairs, gave her my room number so she could join me, and she must have convinced the bartender to let her run a tab just by giving him my room number. I worried for months that he had figured out my name and given it to her.

All very depressing.

Since then I've arranged to bring new prospects to the fc on our first encounter, but I try not to incur the room charge until I'm actually sure she is coming. Your ability to do this is affected by the hotel reservation and cancellation policy of course.

I suggested earlier you try to maneuver the girl into preliminary sexual contact in your car, but others advise not to let her see your license plate.

I've worried about license plate risk a good deal. I prefer not to let her see mine but some times its been unavoidable. Out of town, when I rent a car, its not much of a risk if she does see it. I've actually rented a car in town just to avoid the problem. Several mongers posted previously that license plates are hard for a civilian to trace. I don't know. I think it's like the hotel registration. A clue to your real identity is available for the amateur detective sb to pursue if she's determined. For that matter, she could follow you. Or have a friend do it. Or bribe the hotel maid.

I would argue that the girl who lets you play with her pussy in your car is more likely to fuck you without complications than a girl you bring to your room insufficiently probed. Once in your room an unprobed woman can raise all kinds of hell and problems if she wants. Or, if she's really a pro in disguise, play all the little pro games: change the payscale, limit the services, etc. But if she's hot and wet in the car, she'll be hot and wet in the room.

That being said, I've never actually done what I'm suggesting. Like you, as I said, I've agreed to meet a prospect in a hotel room after getting some sexy pix.

I did fondle the breasts of an sb prospect in a rented car on one first encounter, just to see if she was serious. She was, but she was too desperate (she said she was living in her car) and I decided not to fuck her after all. That's what gives me the idea.

Anyway, let us know what happens. Good luck to you.

[QUOTE=Literal2;1453112]I suggested earlier you try to maneuver the girl into preliminary sexual contact in your car[/QUOTE]This comment is more for the new SD's out there who might be "lurking" on this thread. I think this suggestion is completely contextual based on the SB you're playing with. For example, you would NEVER get me to do something in a car. Sorry, but it's just a little too trashy to me. Then again, I've only ever played on one first date which means a potential SD wouldn't be wasting money in that respect.

Maybe this is a gross over generalization on my part, but "car action" seems to be something more prevalent with Nando 1's and in that case. Protect everything about yourself.

Just my thoughts for the morning. Hope everyone has a great day!

[QUOTE=SbabyBlog; 1452059]I've seen posts like this before and didn't quite have the words to chime in on the topic, but I seem to have found them. I'm sorry but I find it funny that you all seem to be annoyed at SB's who make sure the sugar aspect is nailed down before they do anything. While, I will admit this isn't really my style, any new SB who has done her research has read a number of experienced SB's write that this is a must.

The topic of negotiating sugar is well written about and discussed in the SB world. And, we are MUCH more connected than the SD's are. While there aren't lesson on tact, the message does come across that all of the details need to be nailed down before any visits to the fc occur.

Like I said, not my thing, because I do look for more than the allowance but you shouldn't discount a new SB just because of that. She is most likely just doing what she's read.

Mandy[/QUOTE]It's like most negotiations: one party dominates. If a girl does her homework, reads the sb blogs, keeps her wits about her and plays the field, she can find any number of horny old toads who will open their wallets and give her whatever she wants if she just promises to spread her legs. That's probably the reasonable, logical, most cost effective course for an sb to take.

But not for a daddy.

There are so many females available online these days there is no need to get bogged down in protracted negos with any one girl. It makes sense to have three or four (or more) conversations going at all times. If a baby wants to negotiate, just stop responding to her. Often she will come back in a few weeks or even months with a more cooperative attitude. The thing is, the sex is usually better for both parties when the female subordinates herself, as the males of almost all species know and expect.

In the sb-sd relationship, the baby controls the desired object, her vagina. But the daddy should always control the sugar.

It was always thus. Nothing new here, although not pc in Sex Prison these days.

[QUOTE=SbabyBlog; 1453173]This comment is more for the new SD's out there who might be "lurking" on this thread. I think this suggestion is completely contextual based on the SB you're playing with. For example, you would NEVER get me to do something in a car. Sorry, but it's just a little too trashy to me. Then again, I've only ever played on one first date which means a potential SD wouldn't be wasting money in that respect.

Maybe this is a gross over generalization on my part, but "car action" seems to be something more prevalent with Nando 1's and in that case. Protect everything about yourself.

Just my thoughts for the morning. Hope everyone has a great day![/QUOTE]Ah, but Mandy:

Would you be flirting with a new prospect by swamping his inbox with pix of your pussy and anus with finger on your clit?

I agree the car technique is contextual. In this case, the risk is the girl's a fake and the point is to call her bluff.

I would probably not attempt the car technique alluded to with Grace Kelly or Princess Di, to name a few, but they'd probably not send out a lot of pussy pix either.

Thank you for the advice Literal. I take it very much to heart.

The pictures I posted were from her modeling profile, so they are indeed staged, However she has sent me many many more private shots that I'm 100% are authentic, (because I had put in quite a few requests that she fulfilled). Those shots are just not posted publicly. I'm not worried about her being a fake, but she's certainly got a good chance of being a flake.

Regarding something Mr Hernando wrote the other day:

[Quote=Hernando]If she is a Nando 1 it will be very apparent. The key is the desperate calls for help. Rent's due, car broke, can't afford to fly to her mother's funeral, you know. A Nando 1.[/Quote]This has indeed already started up. There have been 3 dramas since the weekend, with the latest one being that she might not be able to meet me 1/2 way like agreed because her car is at risk of being repossessed. Since she lives 2 hours away, that is going to be a deal breaker for me. Drama & Irresponsibility is very un-sexy to me, and I'm close to just letting this one slip away.

If she can drive to the designated FC by herself I will still give it a shot. We shall see.

Mandy, Due to the graphic nature of our emails, (I have seen her genitals (many times) in higher resolution than I've ever seen my own at this point). I'm not too concerned about doing 'car play', and would rather just not risk the license plate issue. But if that were on my plan of action, it probably would be easy to accomplish. That is way to trashy for you, but I'm not sure anything is too ttrashy for her.

We shall find out how this all ends in a copule of days. Thank you all for your help.

Chi.

[QUOTE=Literal2; 1453112]I hope it works out Chiguy. The anticipation is exciting.

My view is that the lady is 50-50 not to show. Why? Well, her communications as you describe them sound more like fantasizing or game-playing than a serious approach. The pix are cute but looked staged to me. There's also a chance she's a pro.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1451296]Joe,

For what it's worth, something just smells bad here in my opinion. Let's say for a moment she is not a pro, nor has "done this before." The intensity of the negotiations, at least as you describe them, says to me that she is leading with her bank account first, and this will set the tone for all your future interactions. Ten bucks to hold her hand, twenty to put an arm around her, and so forth. Ok, maybe not [I]that[/I] A la carte, but you get the idea.

Now, what she proposes is in all honesty what you should expect to do anyway, I. E. Meals, drinks, hotel, but the fact that she wanted all that on the table up front just doesn't sit well with me. As I say, she may be totally legit, but you and she are entering into this from different points of view, it seems, and you will ultimately be unhappy, I bet. Add to this the fact that it puts you over your comfort level in terms of sugar, and I just see disappointment ahead for both of you.

If it were me, I'd come back to her and say sorry, but this is what I can manage in terms of sugar, and then let her walk, if she does. As we all can attest, there are plenty of fish in the sea.

Hope you can sort it out, and certainly other brothers may have different opinions.

Enjoy the day,

Scott[/QUOTE]Scott, I'm sorry to say that you were right on target with this one. I ultimately agreed to her sugar request because we weren't that far apart on numbers. I met SB23 at a hotel last evening, and, at least from my perspective, things did not go well. First, she was quite late, all the while knowing that my time was limited. She was apologetic, but this is the fourth time in four M&Gs that she's been significantly late. I was quite annoyed by the time she arrived.

Second, and I think this is where she showed her true colors, our physical interaction was very limited. Now this is not to imply that I was insisting on sex or anything of the sort, but I suggested we meet at a hotel for more private time, and she readily agreed. I thought, without actually saying the words to her, that we were going to have some significant indoor fun.

She was sexy and flirty and funny. We drank wine and talked for a while. She offered and gave me a nice massage, and then I did the same for her. But then it became clear that, because our clothes were still on, it wasn't going to go any farther. I tried a few moves, made a few suggestions, but to no avail.

Finally, and this is where the train came entirely off the track, she said that she was going to have another monthly expense that she might need help with: birth control. She claims she's not had sex in quite a while (not that I believe her now) , and she stopped her BC a while ago. Here's the thing: I appreciate her caution, as everyone knows that condoms alone are not foolproof, and two methods of protection are better than one. But anyone who knows anything about BC knows that it is not effective right from the start. You need to go through a few months' worth of pills in order to be fully protected.

I was stunned. Not only was she suggesting that I pay for her pills, but it is possible that she expects me to keep providing sugar without receiving anything physical in return.

Needless to say, I'm not happy at all about any of this. It appears Scott was right on with his a la carte analogy. Because I've prepaid for a half-month's worth of fun, I'll go on another M&G, but part of me wonders why I'd even waste my time. She's nice, and she's very attractive, but it really feels like I'm being taken for a ride.

Unless something drastic happens on the next M&G, I'm done with this one. I've learned a lesson here. Good thing I still have a couple of other lines in the water.

Well, Brothers, I am working through to get more experience with SBs. Working with 2. Here is Case. 1.

SB1: Attractive but want to take it very slow. Will not come to hotel. But enjoying time with me (dinner, drinks and surface level romance). Wanted to spend night but declined. After 3 meets, she wanted full sugar which I am hesitant to give. She was little frustrated but same here. I made it clear. But will see.

SB2: She is 28 yr old, was very clear. In matter of few emails, she sent pics and then ready to have fun. Met at lunch and then went to hotel for quick fun. She is beauty but I have qn. Sugar was little lower than SB1. She said she works in some political office but doesn't get paid. Now, one thing. Was interesting, she doesn't wear any panties (believes free world) and yesterday made comment about night club and will have to be there until 1 AM. Is she a GC-dancer? Made me curious now. She is beauty though. Both the SBs are tall that I like. I like SB2 be'because of her nice shape compared to SB1 which is only good face.

Anyway, SB2 was too quick and very reasonable on sugar and easy to deal. SB1: difficult and high sugar demand. Confused on both! Well. My first time. So still trying to figure this out. But yes, had amazing experience with SB2.