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[QUOTE=ShogunHua;5815326]I visited this place, tight driveway to a parking lot in the back. 30 min only. $. 6 for everything. Girl was probably mid 20's, very cute and nice. I would love to go back. I saw a second girl, similar age and cute too.[/QUOTE]Rubmaps calls this place "Oriental massage" but google calls it sweetness. I believe this place had the most reviews in Sacramento.
Saw Lily at Tulip in West Sacramento in early March 2022 and she is younger and better looking than a lot of the providers out there, with a great body. Not much teasing but very flirty and outgoing. Tried to go under the clothes but hit with a very firm NO, so I laid back and just enjoy the HJ. Paid $50 for the hr and $50 tip. I remember just a few years ago, you can get out of these places with $80, but ooh well.
This place used to be called Jade Massage, now the sign in the front just says "Massage". It is a small strip of a few stores with parking in the back and next to a Metro PCS store. Never got to try Jade Massage as it seemed to be staffed by only one person and was always busy. On 3/16/22, pulled up to the small parking area in the front and the door was locked. Knocked on it a few times and was about to leave when a girl with a decent looking body came out. I decided to try.
Massage was done by Coco and it was basic with not much teasing, but she had a great body, so opted for the HJ. Tried to do under the clothes but was quickly rejected. $50 for the hour plus $50 tip. Good thing is that she did not haggle about the price.
Was wondering if there are any recommended AMP's within walking distance of the Sheraton Grande. (1230 J St).
TIA. Can hook you up in DC or Naples.
Visited yo massage recently. Amy was mid-30's, chubby, cute, wearing a t-shirt and yoga pants. $.4 for 30 minutes. She gave a very pleasant but not-therapeutic hot oil rub, with lots of teasing. On the flip asked for $.6. Pulled up her shirt and allowed touching under her bra. Allowed touching otc below.
Coming to Sacramento Friday and staying one night. Can anyone recomend a good massage with extras between airport and Fair Oaks area. Would love a utr but willing to visit a spa or have someone come to my hotel if recommended. Happy to return the favor for Nashville area.
Prefer pretty petite and accomodating....wouldn't we all...lol
Thanks.
1st time here. Walked in, asked if anyone available for hhr. Led in to room by mmsn. Left donation on table. Waited about 10 minutes when Sophia walks in with a tight black dress and high heels and she didn't seem to even look at the donation. She's petite with nice chest, small back. Face great. Let her know it's my first time there. She gets started on a meh massage with lots of grazing though and rubbing her chest on my back, kisses along the back including back there which was a surprise but welcome. Right before the flip she's getting undressed and asks if in a cop. I say no and she says in her sexy accent, life's too short anyways. She gets on top and begins giving a BBBJ. Not long after she gets a nice cim. Definitely gave more than I expected to get. No negotiating ever happened. She seemed to really enjoy doing what she's doing. She gives me a hug and helped me get dressed. Needless to say she made me feel like a king. She told me to get an hr next time. Thinking if I should do another hhr with someone else though. Their hr is double in price as their hhr.
BTW can anyone vouch for any places with Latina talent? I've seen ads that Song Spa and Venus Spa might.
[QUOTE=ChuckyTortoise;5896645]1st time here. Walked in, asked if anyone available for hhr. Led in to room by mmsn. Left donation on table. Waited about 10 minutes when Sophia walks in with a tight black dress and high heels and she didn't seem to even look at the donation. She's petite with nice chest, small back. Face great. Let her know it's my first time there. She gets started on a meh massage with lots of grazing though and rubbing her chest on my back, kisses along the back including back there which was a surprise but welcome. Right before the flip she's getting undressed and asks if in a cop. I say no and she says in her sexy accent, life's too short anyways. She gets on top and begins giving a BBBJ. Not long after she gets a nice cim. Definitely gave more than I expected to get. No negotiating ever happened. She seemed to really enjoy doing what she's doing. She gives me a hug and helped me get dressed. Needless to say she made me feel like a king. She told me to get an hr next time. Thinking if I should do another hhr with someone else though. Their hr is double in price as their hhr.
BTW can anyone vouch for any places with Latina talent? I've seen ads that Song Spa and Venus Spa might.[/QUOTE]Thats an amazing review. It sounds too good to be true. What time of day did you go? Weekday or weekend? What was the donation? I'm wondering how my mileage will vary but looking forward to it. Glad you had a good time.
Got to give my due diligence with a report for yall. There's honestly a lot out here. Some places you got to go a few times to build rapport. Most places will cost ya $. 60 for everything. Doesn't seem like inflation has hit here like in the Bay Area.
From my experience here in sac. The Chinese providers are abysmal and try to rush through it all. Korean and Vietnamese providers seem to be a bit more friendly and into it.
FYI I am totally bad with names so I am sorry for not giving any names. I either forget to ask or just forget the name.
Sweetness Spa girls are young and they rotate every month or so. I hate the parking lot it's so compact and conspicuous.
Spring massage. Young Korean girls. Had a blast here. I paid a bit more and she settled with BB services.
Pearl Massage. Unfortunate I didn't bring more cash. The girl working was bubbly and cute let me pop twice. And wanted more.
TM massage. I once came here right before they were closing a few aunties with some MMs. I got a pitiful massage with HJ. She told me to come back tomorrow and she would make up for it. And that she did. I came back. She literally locked the front door and gave me a BBBJ and extra.
TT Massage. Pre COVID this was a spot to get a decent massage with possible extra? YMMV. But recently got baited and switched! Man that bummed me out. Probably won't be coming back unless I hear it's getting better.
I'll try to report more when I can. Be safe. Happy mongering. Maybe Mark Jackson will be great for the kings!
JT.
This is a cool place. Nice but very busy. Come inside and Amanda greet me in the front. She is very young And huge boob which is my favorite part. She take me to the room and ask me and ask me if I want to a water. I am a little bit nervous LOL so I take one. She told me to take off the clothes and I told her I don't want to massage just want to a full service she said no problem and I give her 1. 6 which I think is not bad. And she just help me to take off my clothes and she go out to grab a condom and come back. She take off her clothes and it is very sexy and nice body. I hold her and she start kiss my neck and ear. I am getting hard and she start doing some light kissing too. She is very good on that. She told me to lay down and kiss my nipple. And then keep going down for my balls. I tell her I want to fuck her asap and she told me ok. She put the rubber for me and then ride on the top. I have to say she is a good rider after abut 5 min and I tell her I want to fuck her and kiss her boob and she said ok. Her moaning is exactly I like very horny and then we tried doggie and I finally finish in the bag I am very enjoy this and I left another 0. 4 on the table. I will definitely come back again.
My tried and true spot for a decent massage, teasing, and HJ. I mostly get whoever comes to the door as I am at a lost since my ATF Susanna left. Vicki gave a better than average massage with focus on the shoulders, which I needed. The teasing came at the end, however, wish it was mixed in during the massage session instead of just focused teasing at the end. Vicki allowed some UTC, and she had a nice pair.
Passing through the area and felt like trying someplace new (to me) and not any of the places I know in Roseville, Sacto, or W. Sacto. Found an ad on Bedpage for Silver Hands Massage on Antelope Road in Citrus Heights not far from the freeway. Walked in without an appointment and was greeted by Sophia (or Sofia? Slim-to-average sized Viet MILF wearing a sleeveless sundress. She never took her mask off but seemed attractive. She told me 40 for the half hour (only option presented) and showed me to a room.
After I freshened up and got comfortable on the table, she came in and the massage commenced. I don't think she ever covered me up, which was nice. Medium pressure, nothing memorable. On the flip hand service was all that was available. But it was very pleasant and some OTC groping was allowed. My mood was greatly improved by the encounter.
I got there before 7 pm and she was closing shop after our session, so definitely not a late night spot -- I would call ahead if you want to get there after 7. She mentioned that a younger "very pretty" girl works there earlier and that I should come back to see her. I hope I will be able to, but I would repeat with Sophia as well. 40 + 60 was the damage.
Not that this place needs more attention but funny session today. Quite the "pair" they got working there this month! I pull into the parking lot near opening and there's already 3 cars in there! I start to back out and a cute young Chinese chick wearing a tight red dress and huge fake tits starts opens the door to call me in. I'm guessing this is 'Amanda'. She leads me into the waiting room and say "no don't leave babyyy". After I sit down on the all too familiar dirty sofa I hear slapping sounds coming from the bedroom. "Alright, she isn't that cute for me to wait" and I'm at the door again before she rushes out and grab me again! She's pretty convincing and has me sit down again. A minute later I'm greeted by another young & much prettier Chinese chick with huge natural tits. Ah this is the famed "Amanda". She tells me to wait 1 minute while she cleans up. No massage, straight to the action with Amanda and it's as the other posted said, except I opted for a nice long BJ. On the way out, the both of them are on my arms, slapping my butt, telling me not to run away next time and I should try the girl in red. I felt like a cowboy walking out of a brothel in the Wild West haha. Anyways if a dark skin Asian guy driving a red mustang is reading this, sorry for the interruption while she ran out the room to fetch me!
[QUOTE=JammedToe;5906302]Got to give my due diligence with a report for yall. There's honestly a lot out here. Some places you got to go a few times to build rapport. Most places will cost ya $. 60 for everything. Doesn't seem like inflation has hit here like in the Bay Area.
From my experience here in sac. The Chinese providers are abysmal and try to rush through it all. Korean and Vietnamese providers seem to be a bit more friendly and into it.
FYI I am totally bad with names so I am sorry for not giving any names. I either forget to ask or just forget the name.
Sweetness Spa girls are young and they rotate every month or so. I hate the parking lot it's so compact and conspicuous.
Spring massage. Young Korean girls. Had a blast here. I paid a bit more and she settled with BB services.
Pearl Massage. Unfortunate I didn't bring more cash. The girl working was bubbly and cute let me pop twice. And wanted more.
TM massage. I once came here right before they were closing a few aunties with some MMs. I got a pitiful massage with HJ. She told me to come back tomorrow and she would make up for it. And that she did. I came back. She literally locked the front door and gave me a BBBJ and extra..[/QUOTE]Are the girls at TM Massage on the older or younger side (mid 30's and lower)?
[QUOTE=JammedToe;5906302]TM massage. I once came here right before they were closing a few aunties with some MMs. I got a pitiful massage with HJ. She told me to come back tomorrow and she would make up for it. And that she did. I came back. She literally locked the front door and gave me a BBBJ and extra.[/QUOTE]What are MMs? Boobs?
I've lived here a few months, and like U2 sings, I still haven't found what I'm looking for.
In the last 20 years, I've had three ATFs, all in different cities.
1 - Angel. I met Angel at a Caucasian massage studio. Gorgeous, amazing tits, in her mid twenties. She gave a full body rub, body to body. Amazing DFK, mutual massage. She gave me her number and we met at her apartment numerous times. Our last time together, about 20 years ago, we spent an hour sitting in a hot tub together, making out like teenagers. All time favorite.
2 - Midori. Best massage ever. She'd spend 90 minutes massaging me, with lots off sensual teasing. As she massaged my back, she'd lean over and put her gorgeous tits in my hands out to my side. Then I'd massage her for a while, followed by an HJ ending. This one was all about the amazing massage and the sensuality. No kissing, no FS, but still amazing.
3 - Britney. Pretty lady with the best tits I've ever played with. We'd enjoy a shower together, then to the bed with incredible DFK. She thought she gave a great massage, but she really didn't. So I'd end up massaging her, body to body, which led to amazing sex. She was the only one of the three that I actually had FS with. But I'd give anything to see any one of them again.
So now I'm searching for another along these lines. I've looked into Seeking, but can't afford what the ladies on there are looking for. Any suggestions?
Here's what I'm looking for:
1 - high quality massage.
2 - attractive, with big tits.
3 - a lot of sensual teasing during massage.
4 - great ending, flexible on what that looks like.
Added plusses:
DFK.
Shower together.
Mutual massage.
Anywhere from Sacramento to Stockton would be great.
[QUOTE=JoeBazooka55;5916549]What are MMs? Boobs?[/QUOTE]Man made boobs.
[QUOTE=BlueOdin;5916333]Are the girls at TM Massage on the older or younger side (mid 30's and lower)?[/QUOTE]The girls there are about mid 30's and above. I've only gone there twice though so YMMV.
[QUOTE=ChuckyTortoise;5896645]1st time here. Walked in, asked if anyone available for hhr. Led in to room by mmsn. Left donation on table. Waited about 10 minutes when Sophia walks in with a tight black dress and high heels and she didn't seem to even look at the donation. She's petite with nice chest, small back. Face great. Let her know it's my first time there. She gets started on a meh massage with lots of grazing though and rubbing her chest on my back, kisses along the back including back there which was a surprise but welcome. Right before the flip she's getting undressed and asks if in a cop. I say no and she says in her sexy accent, life's too short anyways. She gets on top and begins giving a BBBJ. Not long after she gets a nice cim. Definitely gave more than I expected to get. No negotiating ever happened. She seemed to really enjoy doing what she's doing. She gives me a hug and helped me get dressed. Needless to say she made me feel like a king. She told me to get an hr next time. Thinking if I should do another hhr with someone else though. Their hr is double in price as their hhr.
BTW can anyone vouch for any places with Latina talent? I've seen ads that Song Spa and Venus Spa might.[/QUOTE]They have a petite Latina at Q Spa in Northgate area.
[QUOTE=ClosetPervert9;5902721]Thats an amazing review. It sounds too good to be true. What time of day did you go? Weekday or weekend? What was the donation? I'm wondering how my mileage will vary but looking forward to it. Glad you had a good time.[/QUOTE]Did you end up going? I went around noon, gave her all I had which was 60. She deserved more though and told her that was all I had but she made it seem like it was no big deal.
Also went to A2 in West Sac. Provider was maybe mid 40's. Looks and body were nothing special. But god damn the massage was great. As another poster said teasing was at the end instead of mixed in so that could be better. But she was good at her job.
[QUOTE=ChuckyTortoise;5922061]Did you end up going? I went around noon, gave her all I had which was 60. She deserved more though and told her that was all I had but she made it seem like it was no big deal.
Also went to A2 in West Sac. Provider was maybe mid 40's. Looks and body were nothing special. But god damn the massage was great. As another poster said teasing was at the end instead of mixed in so that could be better. But she was good at her job.[/QUOTE]Not yet. I was going to go Saturday but I nicked myself when shaving. I don't monger with open cuts. but i'll be there in a week or two.
Hey, new to the area and have hit some of the popular spots, but I've been looking for a Russian or European spot with no luck. Any one have any suggestions? I'm down to drive a bit but nothing crazy.
[QUOTE=JammedToe;5906302]Got to give my due diligence with a report for yall. There's honestly a lot out here. Some places you got to go a few times to build rapport. Most places will cost ya $. 60 for everything. Doesn't seem like inflation has hit here like in the Bay Area.
From my experience here in sac. The Chinese providers are abysmal and try to rush through it all. Korean and Vietnamese providers seem to be a bit more friendly and into it.
FYI I am totally bad with names so I am sorry for not giving any names. I either forget to ask or just forget the name.
Sweetness Spa girls are young and they rotate every month or so. I hate the parking lot it's so compact and conspicuous.
Spring massage. Young Korean girls. Had a blast here. I paid a bit more and she settled with BB services.
Pearl Massage. Unfortunate I didn't bring more cash. The girl working was bubbly and cute let me pop twice. And wanted more.
TM massage. I once came here right before they were closing a few aunties with some MMs. I got a pitiful massage with HJ. She told me to come back tomorrow and she would make up for it. And that she did. I came back. She literally locked the front door and gave me a BBBJ and extra.
TT Massage. Pre COVID this was a spot to get a decent massage with possible extra? YMMV. But recently got baited and switched! Man that bummed me out. Probably won't be coming back unless I hear it's getting better.
I'll try to report more when I can. Be safe. Happy mongering. Maybe Mark Jackson will be great for the kings!
JT.[/QUOTE]How much was house and how much was tip for sweetness spa. Thinking of going soon. Thanks in advance.
[QUOTE=JammedToe;5906302]Got to give my due diligence with a report for yall. There's honestly a lot out here. Some places you got to go a few times to build rapport. Most places will cost ya $. 60 for everything. Doesn't seem like inflation has hit here like in the Bay Area.
From my experience here in sac. The Chinese providers are abysmal and try to rush through it all. Korean and Vietnamese providers seem to be a bit more friendly and into it.
FYI I am totally bad with names so I am sorry for not giving any names. I either forget to ask or just forget the name.
Sweetness Spa girls are young and they rotate every month or so. I hate the parking lot it's so compact and conspicuous.
Spring massage. Young Korean girls. Had a blast here. I paid a bit more and she settled with BB services.
Pearl Massage. Unfortunate I didn't bring more cash. The girl working was bubbly and cute let me pop twice. And wanted more.
TM massage. I once came here right before they were closing a few aunties with some MMs. I got a pitiful massage with HJ. She told me to come back tomorrow and she would make up for it. And that she did. I came back. She literally locked the front door and gave me a BBBJ and extra.
TT Massage. Pre COVID this was a spot to get a decent massage with possible extra? YMMV. But recently got baited and switched! Man that bummed me out. Probably won't be coming back unless I hear it's getting better.
I'll try to report more when I can. Be safe. Happy mongering. Maybe Mark Jackson will be great for the kings!
JT.[/QUOTE]How much was house and how much was tip for sweetness spa. Thinking of going soon. Thanks in advance.
Also what are the rates for BJ and what are rates for full service?
Looking for anywhere in Roseville or Rocklin that offers anything extra. Any info?
Hey, I was hoping one of you fine young gentlemen might be able to point me in the direction of a more traditional spot. One that offers a top shelf massage / HJ with lots of teasing. I am not hung up on finding the hottest / youngest, just quality work. I don't mind the 40-somethings! Not interested in more FS spots. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to turn it down if I walk into a spot where it's the standard....it's just not what I'd like to find as my go to.
I've hit up a few spots that I picked randomly since arriving and none of them are what I'd like to find. These include.
Song Spa (Northgate). FS 30 seconds after walking into the room with an approx 30 Y/O MM Korean gal. She was eager and pleasant enough looking, but a little harder/rougher around the edges than I like for FS.
Gateway Oaks Massage (El Camino). A pretty decent massage with a lot of teasing but no happy ending for me. Seems like a place that would check the boxes I'm looking for. Insight?
A place in West Sac off Harbor that I can't remember the name of for the life of me. It's across from Raku Sushi. Another 30'ish sporting MMs and quite mechanical FS. Still fun though!
Thanks bros. Hopefully one of you can shoot me over a winner.
[QUOTE=FunSearching;5950553]How much was house and how much was tip for sweetness spa. Thinking of going soon. Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]The massage cost at Sweetness (last time I visited several months ago) was $160 all in for 30 minute session.
Looks like a legit place. Away from everything, buzzer door, but the mamasan is very sketched out. I come in, she takes me to the room. I ask if I can choose masseuse. (They're not busy at all) She says no. Okay fine, takes me to the room, asks my age. I say 21, she asks for my I'd. I say I don't bring my I'd. She asks why, I say because I don't want to lose it. She asks me to leave.
Honestly probably HE place but I never stay if asked for an I'd. Call me an overthinker, but hell no. God forbid there's a bust and they find my I'd. Sometimes I even plant my car keys in a nearby Bush so that if I'm ever searched by LE they won't know the car I'm driving. Always park away too, maybe across the street.
On another hand does anyone know of other places in Rancho?
[QUOTE=Duck123;5986100]Looks like a legit place. Away from everything, buzzer door, but the mamasan is very sketched out. I come in, she takes me to the room. I ask if I can choose masseuse. (They're not busy at all) She says no. Okay fine, takes me to the room, asks my age. I say 21, she asks for my I'd. I say I don't bring my I'd. She asks why, I say because I don't want to lose it. She asks me to leave.
Honestly probably HE place but I never stay if asked for an I'd. Call me an overthinker, but hell no. God forbid there's a bust and they find my I'd. Sometimes I even plant my car keys in a nearby Bush so that if I'm ever searched by LE they won't know the car I'm driving. Always park away too, maybe across the street.
On another hand does anyone know of other places in Rancho?[/QUOTE]You're definitely an overthinker and too paranoid. No cop is gunna give a f if you have an I'd on you. You're getting a massage, that's it. Smh.
Also there's a problem with you if you couldn't get in there. Probably too young looking or just sketchy considering your paranoid remarks.
[QUOTE=ChuckyTortoise;5990735]You're definitely an overthinker and too paranoid. No cop is gunna give a f if you have an I'd on you. You're getting a massage, that's it. Smh.
Also there's a problem with you if you couldn't get in there. Probably too young looking or just sketchy considering your paranoid remarks.[/QUOTE]I am around 20, so not underage, never had a problem getting into other places. Like LE don't know about those places and don't make busts occasionally? If you got nothing going on and nothing to lose that's on you. I personally take care of my shit.
40 h / hr, below average dry massage, light and boring teasing, HE. On the flip was asked "do you like" with the obligatory point. I said "obviously" and she asked "how much you give. " Because the massage / teasing to that point was so unspectacular I responded with "I always pay $40. " She countered with "$80 and I take off all my clothes and you can play with and eat my pussy. " Sorry bros, but eating the pussy of a forgettable middle aged dick stroker is not my idea of a good time. I told her I don't need to touch her (I had no interest in touching that pussy) and that she should keep her clothes on. She was obviously annoyed with this response and kept telling me that I could "play with her pussy. " I held firm and the clothes stayed on! The jack was fine albeit unspectacular.
I'm still looking for a quality jack-shack with a quality massage and tons teasing. Come on fellas, give up the spot.
[QUOTE=ChuckyTortoise;5990735]You're definitely an overthinker and too paranoid. No cop is gunna give a f if you have an I'd on you. You're getting a massage, that's it. Smh.
Also there's a problem with you if you couldn't get in there. Probably too young looking or just sketchy considering your paranoid remarks.[/QUOTE]Was the Original Poster worried that the AMP was a set-up sting operation? That would seem like a pretty expensive operation. And not likely to happen. I imagine the mamasan was worried about doing business with a minor.
But busts of AMP's does happen. One was in the news just a month or so ago. Four male clients were arrested and charged with pandering. That is not they kind of news you want to bring home to anyone. The shutdown of AMPs in the town in Ohio about 10 or 11 years ago was also pretty devastating to many of the clients there. The police had been collecting license plate numbers, and visited the clients at later times.
I finally got back to this AMP on the north side of Reed Ave, just a little east of Harbor Blvd. Only 30 min. Was offered as only one was working. I would repeat. Total was 1. 8.
YMMV of course, and it depends on what your used to. If your standard is what is available on Valley Blvd in Bloomington / Fontana, then it probably won't measure up. (But I don't think anyplace compares to Bloomington).
In Sac for one of the very rare times and, based on reviews here, made a Tuesday afternoon stop at Sweetness. Was welcomed in, about a 15 minute wait, then Honey brought me back. Busty and aggressive. Immediately grabbed my hand and put in on her boob, under her top, as we walked back to room. Once inside, immediately took my hand to rub and finger her kitty. Very aggressively tried to push for me to a agree on a 2-girl experience. I turned that down.
Will say that she was very aggressive, definitely had her routine that included a pretty decent 10 minute massage / rub down. Never took her dress off, just top down and bottom pulled up. About 5 minutes of 69, then cowgirl. Will say that I never get off with protection on, but she managed to make it happen, so I was kinda impressed.
Looks-wise, not really my type, but attractive enough that the thought of asking for someone else or walking was never a consideration.
Hey guys, this is probably the opposite of what most guys are looking for here, but can why'all recommend a place with older (30-40) yr old with lower prices for FS / 69? Bonus points for Rancho area.
[QUOTE=Canuck6234;5440086]My experience has been that most rooms are pretty dark. The ladies are in this for the $$ They have seen young, old, thin, fat, and disabled folks. I recommend you pick a spa after researching here and give it a whirl.[/QUOTE]If darkness is your friend, try Pearl in Woodland. Had to use a flashlight to make out anything in the room. There is "mood lighting" however too dark for my tastes. I like to see the action I'm involved in.
Anyone know if Mixed Spa on El Camino is still open? 3039 El Camino (916)xxxx120. Always went there since I prefer Latinas. Hit the number up no response.
[QUOTE=CuriousMind20;6040164]Anyone know if Mixed Spa on El Camino is still open? 3039 El Camino (916)xxxx120. Always went there since I prefer Latinas. Hit the number up no response.[/QUOTE]Last time I drove past there were the same vehicles there, so I.
I suspect they were open and doing business. They probably had their hands full.
[QUOTE=MaybeMedic;5932677]Hey, new to the area and have hit some of the popular spots, but I've been looking for a Russian or European spot with no luck. Any one have any suggestions? I'm down to drive a bit but nothing crazy.[/QUOTE]Most of the parlors in Citrus Heights and antelope are Russian.
Anyone know if the Euro spa in rocklin offers more than HE? Plenty of reviews on rubmaps but can't look into them without a subscription.