Printable View
[QUOTE=CobraGuy;6671891]They go after drug users to identify the drug pushers. Hold a charge over your head and you will tell all you know about who you know. You can likely substitute drug user with any other criminal action. Like maybe John's?[/QUOTE]Yes, that's right and that's what they did in the last year to build a case.
But now that the operation is over and the drug dealers (using the analogy) are caught, why go after the drug users?
You're not thinking clearly. Releasing names of people who never made appointments, never committed a crime, would be a disaster. If you actually saw a provider between the dates listed, you should be worried. If you sent them info, but never paid for sex, there's nothing to worry. They would need records from email and phone to even prove you were the one who sent the info. If you did go to these locations, you are on camera going to a known location for illegal paid sex. Simple as that. Who knows how they will decide which men they prosecute? Maybe big names, maybe little, maybe a mix of both?
[QUOTE=JacobsPatrick;6671412]They have names, addresses, telephone numbers, work information and driver's licences. Even if you never made an appointment, it's loss to be outed for most.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=JsppsgFun4;6671669][URL]www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/feds-bust-high-end-bothel-1234873115/amp/[/URL]
Interesting take from a former federal prosecutor. Hinting at what he believes is the underlying reasons behind what happened yesterday.[/QUOTE]Interesting point of view. Having been in that world in previous lives, they are overstating, in this context, the connection between espionage and AAMPs. Sex used as an espionage tool usually involves one person and takes place after a relationship has been built over a period of time, such as Swallwell's Chinese girlfriend. I can't imagine building up the kind of relationship with even the most gorgeous AAMP girl to the point where you would give her classified documents. Also, the situation has to be blackmailable. Until the Trump era, most espionage was committed out of greed. A foreign intelligence service would really have to have the right girls seducing the right people for a long time to get to the point that they would need money to support their hobby. If these AAMPs were really being used as an intelligence collection front, individual girls would stay in one location for longer than a couple of weeks and they would have to be trained foreign intelligence agents.
[QUOTE=Max#01;6672027]Interesting point of view. Having been in that world in previous lives, they are overstating, in this context, the connection between espionage and AAMPs. Sex used as an espionage tool usually involves one person and takes place after a relationship has been built over a period of time, such as Swallwell's Chinese girlfriend. I can't imagine building up the kind of relationship with even the most gorgeous AAMP girl to the point where you would give her classified documents. Also, the situation has to be blackmailable. Until the Trump era, most espionage was committed out of greed. A foreign intelligence service would really have to have the right girls seducing the right people for a long time to get to the point that they would need money to support their hobby. If these AAMPs were really being used as an intelligence collection front, individual girls would stay in one location for longer than a couple of weeks and they would have to be trained foreign intelligence agents.[/QUOTE]My 2 c is that is that the RISK of this being an intel blackmail operation is too high for the investigators to resist given the locations and clientele, so they're going that route to make sure and justify their unusually detailed prosecution. As far as whether this really was an operation, well, call me a bit skeptical. The Chinese idea seems far-fetched: Koreans getting in bed with Chinese intel? Sure about that? It's more plausible that it's a mafia style extortion op if anything. BUT wouldn't we hear about it if that was the case?
[QUOTE=Almel89;6671583]How fucked are any of us if the client list is revealed, say you're one of those clients who was never "interviewed" by the agents but still on the list. Would we be getting an agent coming to visit, a call, anything? Would it end up on our records as a charge?
I'm pretty sure as long as you don't say anything or get busted in the act you're fine, but I'm not too sure about the rest.[/QUOTE]I'm not saying it will definitely happen, but anyone who's ever had a clearance knows it can be put at risk over non-criminal issues. If the list is (oops, my bad!) leaked, or if it's shared with other govt agencies using "national security" as the justification, that could be a problem.
[QUOTE=Tadalagash;6671865]Forgive my naivety and simpleton mind. .
But what is the difference between Drug Dealers / drug users and Agency Owners / Johns?
Since when did the Feds or LEO's go after drug users?? Johns don't make money from these ' shady' activities just like the poor drug users. Unless their is an ulterior motive to go after the Johns since they are affluent people (given the expense) and being Whites from upper middle class.[/QUOTE]Things that used to be classified as garden variety prostitution or pimping have gained new life, and been elevated in status, using the trafficking label. That's not to say that real trafficking doesn't exist, only that the label is now being used as a pretext to turn what would previously have been shrugged over into an "OMG, this is horrible" kind of thing.
There is a shitload of state and federal dollars sloshing around and directed at task forces and other so-called anti-trafficking efforts. Prosecutions like this one get lots of publicity and ensure the flow of public money never dries up.
Your tax dollars at work! (sarc off).
[QUOTE=JmSuttr;6672067]I'm not saying it will definitely happen, but anyone who's ever had a clearance knows it can be put at risk over non-criminal issues. If the list is (oops, my bad!) leaked, or if it's shared with other govt agencies using "national security" as the justification, that could be a problem.[/QUOTE]More likely to come up in a PR polygraph, especially a full-scope lifestyle version or in a reinvestigation in the "moral turpitude" realm.
[QUOTE=WillGuyMar;6672054]My 2 c is that is that the RISK of this being an intel blackmail operation is too high for the investigators to resist given the locations and clientele, so they're going that route to make sure and justify their unusually detailed prosecution. As far as whether this really was an operation, well, call me a bit skeptical. The Chinese idea seems far-fetched: Koreans getting in bed with Chinese intel? Sure about that? It's more plausible that it's a mafia style extortion op if anything. BUT wouldn't we hear about it if that was the case?[/QUOTE]We also have to keep in mind that these were DHS cops and not "real" cops. DHS is in the threat business and how they continue to get our taxpayer dollars is to create threats that only they can eliminate.
The only way I could imagine this intelligence scenario going down is something like this:
1. Guy with clearance visits AAMP.
2. AAMP big bosses know he has a clearance and puts on an extortion scheme: "Pay up or we tell your commander. "
3. Guy runs out of money.
4. Guy sells secrets to restore positive cash flow.
Great stuff for TV.
[QUOTE=JmSuttr;6672067]I'm not saying it will definitely happen, but anyone who's ever had a clearance knows it can be put at risk over non-criminal issues. If the list is (oops, my bad!) leaked, or if it's shared with other govt agencies using "national security" as the justification, that could be a problem.[/QUOTE]So basically as long as you don't have a clearance or aren't high up in any organization / company there's a good chance they won't come for you as they're looking to punish people up the totem pole?
That and given the precedent of the DC madam scandal where that lost was never leaked there's a good chance that won't happen either?
Check out paragraph 71 of the report (1st paragraph of page 41):
"Investigators have identified a number of deposits from various covid related relief funds flowing into the accounts, as well as some cash, money order, and P2 P payments, on a much smaller scale than the check funding movement. ".
Just a guess, but it's possible they were targeted for misusing covid relief funds. We all know full well that the government isn't interested in "saving" these women. But when you steal money from them, you certainly get their attention.
[QUOTE=Almel89;6672158]So basically as long as you don't have a clearance or aren't high up in any organization / company there's a good chance they won't come for you as they're looking to punish people up the totem pole?
That and given the precedent of the DC madam scandal where that lost was never leaked there's a good chance that won't happen either?[/QUOTE]The smaller the fish, the higher the likelihood it will escape the shark!
Shocking how nobody who visited the island got charged, but consenting adults have to sweat for something that should be considered legal. Many of the monger are kind law abiding citizens, who most likely lonely or rejected by the wife need to worry about getting exposed and lives destroyed. You can engage in illegal drugs or murder babies and be completely fine. We can drink and smoke which is harmful, but god forbid you have sex. They use sex because it's as basic as eating and for now they can't make that illegal. I hope everyone is safe and a valuable lesson is Learned. Never share you pi, just keep looking. If it's not crazy sb it's always something. In closing I believe in a woman's choice and I also believe in a man's choice to be with who he wants, as long as it's consensual. My work gives me Greece and nobody cares. I do it for the little money! We all sell our bodies and nobody should be punished for consensual sex.
Hope everyone that just gave away their PII stops freaking out. You already gave it up, can't get it back from those people. Learn your lesson and move on.
P.S.-if you really think the agencies "erased" your PII after the verification. Hahahahaha sure they did.
The savior part of this bust be really lame. I be loving these gals for long time and I never ever think they be "slaves" like DHS call them in the news conference. They in it for the green for sure and that it. LE know this too.
[QUOTE=DmvMack;6671979]It was BEG and BTT. Read the charging document that has been provided in the thread.[/QUOTE]Was there ever a website named Happy Together or Happy something? I know they ran out of that APT building in Moasic which was one of the target apartments in the law doc.
[QUOTE=Erikleewashdc;6672278]Was there ever a website named Happy Together or Happy something? I know they ran out of that APT building in Moasic which was one of the target apartments in the law doc.[/QUOTE]Multiple agencies have used that building. The only one targeted in this investigation was BEG.
[QUOTE=JsppsgFun4;6671669][URL]www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/feds-bust-high-end-bothel-1234873115/amp/[/URL]
Interesting take from a former federal prosecutor. Hinting at what he believes is the underlying reasons behind what happened yesterday.[/QUOTE]Maybe, but seems more likely to go the way of the Epstein case, which had far more prominent clientele and actual trafficking, not just what passes for it in dramatic news conferences.
Went to BEG like 2-3 weeks ago and used Zelle. I am an idiot.
[QUOTE=DmvMack;6672343]Multiple agencies have used that building. The only one targeted in this investigation was BEG.[/QUOTE]The affidavit seemed to indicate most of the surveillance took place in MA. That would've really been something had everyone gotten swept up in one fell swoop. Wonder which state the confidential source was busted in, and if she was an owner or a player, so to speak.
[QUOTE=BallerTbakflsl;6672358]Went to BEG like 2-3 weeks ago and used Zelle. I am an idiot.[/QUOTE]Relax don't get worked up over it. The only thing that will reduce your fears is time.
Ok dudes. I notice my favorite NOVA place already clean up the act and takes the prices and other shit like measurement off the site. Next things we knows business tank and they pull up stakes and head outs like K-pops. Shit. NYC and Montreal too far for weekly bangs.
So, anybody had Ada yet? Support your local agency LOL. PM is OK.
Just asking. Curios. Hypothetically.
[QUOTE=NightHawk1967;6672242]The savior part of this bust be really lame. I be loving these gals for long time and I never ever think they be "slaves" like DHS call them in the news conference. They in it for the green for sure and that it. LE know this too.[/QUOTE]I liked the part in the document where they claim that one of the owners was 'locking' the door when he left apartments as a way to keep the girls locked in and act as implicit threat to work. Dude was just probably just locking the door to be extra safe about someone randomly walking in without the girl's permission. The cops had to stretch so hard to try and point to some sort of coercion and make it look like they actually did something good.
[QUOTE=Derilious89;6672474]I liked the part in the document where they claim that one of the owners was 'locking' the door when he left apartments as a way to keep the girls locked in and act as implicit threat to work. Dude was just probably just locking the door to be extra safe about someone randomly walking in without the girl's permission. The cops had to stretch so hard to try and point to some sort of coercion and make it look like they actually did something good.[/QUOTE]That lockdown shit be real funny. I not do BEG, but I beens to so many other place where I knows the gals is free as birds.
I bang a gal in a NYC joint in summer and was nearby the shop next day at Starbucks waiting to do another gal. Lo and behold first gal walks in shop laughing and acting like a princess with another working gal and order a frap. She look real good in street clothes and I just about say her "hi baby, want to date?" but I had to get to other date LOL.
Another time a gal gave me digits and lo and behold we fuck all week for discount at my hotel. I read all other kinds of stories like this. These gals not on lockdown for sure. Just like weed and booze this hobby need be legal.
[QUOTE=JmSuttr;6672103]Things that used to be classified as garden variety prostitution or pimping have gained new life, and been elevated in status, using the trafficking label. That's not to say that real trafficking doesn't exist, only that the label is now being used as a pretext to turn what would previously have been shrugged over into an "OMG, this is horrible" kind of thing.
There is a shitload of state and federal dollars sloshing around and directed at task forces and other so-called anti-trafficking efforts. Prosecutions like this one get lots of publicity and ensure the flow of public money never dries up.
Your tax dollars at work! (sarc off).[/QUOTE]Good point, JmSuttr. Cops, do-gooders, and other activists like to slap the "trafficking" label on not only prostitution but porn these days, even if everyone involved is participating voluntarily and without coercion. It's a good way to keep the federal, state, and private foundation grants coming in.
Ideally the best solution is to legalize the hobby. There's no reason the government should prosecute consenting adults' activities simply because an exchange of money is involved. But that would require a willingness on the part of officeholders to change the laws against the hobby. That could still be a career-killer even with the changes in the public's attitudes toward sex over the last few decades.
By the way, it's good to see you posting again.
This is why I don't like and avoid screenings and photos. The last thing ya want is them getting access to a database of clients after busting a group and being on it.
If you share info use fake photos, burners, and never give real name/job/etc. Be safe boys! My personal logic that always pisses them off... Never give you real information to some 304 that won't give you her real first name.
What sucks is work was sending me up this weekend but I guess it's better to happen before I head up than during. Be safe boys!
[QUOTE=TheBdn0128;6670012][URL]https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/feds-to-announce-sophisticated-high-end-brothel-network-bust-in-mass-va/3184748/[/URL]
FYI, taking a break![/QUOTE]
Only a matter of time before this all blows over. The owners will likely not face any jail time, at least not for prostitution or human trafficking. Just look at Wikipedia on Prostitution in the US: "Prostitution is illegal in the vast majority of the United States as a result of state laws rather than federal laws". There's no reason for federal agencies, like the DOJ and DHS, to get involved with suspected prostitution, as that's relegated to the state level. So now all they've got is human trafficking. But good luck getting those Korean women to testify. It should be noted that not a single news article mentioned that the authorities took these Asian women in for questioning. When you don't even have your main source of evidence in human trafficking cases (in this case, the women), what else have you got? Not much, so the cases will likely be tossed.
At best, they can probably hit the owners with money laundering or racketeering. So, some jail time is possible. But not much.
New agencies will pop up using different names. Probably run by the same people.
People on the so-called client list are safe. Having your name on a list is not evidence of a crime committed. Even sending text messages discussing payment for sex is not sufficient. They would need to catch you in the act to prove you engaged in prostitution. The agencies are not sting operations. There are no cameras set up inside the apartments.
One good thing that might come out of this is that we all collectively wake up and refuse to comply with these unreasonable screening requirements. If we refuse to hand over our PII to these agencies, they will stop requiring it. They have no legitimate need for our PII. But yet they do need our business, and will adapt to more reasonable screening like in years past.
Another observation. The affidavit says that surveillance has gone on for months and that they've interviewed 20 mongers. But yet no intel on this was reported. Makes me wonder how many investigations are currently going on against agencies, and how many guys are being flipped by the feds right now on agencies that are still operating. If you see something, say something!
Also, have you noticed that sometimes these agencies bring it on themselves. One agency has papasan in the hallway directing mongers. As I just said, the residents of that building might see something and also say something.
[QUOTE=Finitts;6672235]Hope everyone that just gave away their PII stops freaking out. You already gave it up, can't get it back from those people. Learn your lesson and move on.
P.S.-if you really think the agencies "erased" your PII after the verification. Hahahahaha sure they did.[/QUOTE]I recently tied to screen with DS and they asked me for numerous pieces of PII and I declined. The only reason I can think why they ask for so much personal info is that it gives them a level of power over you because you cannot tell how a guy is going to behave when he's alone with a girl based on his DL, his job, etc. The best way to screen to see if he's well behaved is via other ladies he's seen. Co-sign on the comment that if we collectively refuse to give up PII they'll be forced to stop asking for it or they'll go out of business; but unfortunately there will also be a few weak links in the hobby chain that will cave and send it thus ruining it for everyone.
[URL]https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/boston-brothel-mass-sex-trafficking/3186274/[/URL]
"But who those sex buyers were remained a mystery on Thursday. Federal authorities were mum on the subject at the news conference, saying that any arrests for the purchase of sex would happen at the state level. ".
That may be a dash of morning comfort for many of you. Steve Descano is the total opposite of a tough on crime "community morals" crusader. Hell, he may congratulate some of you for being charitable to the ladies. I jest, but you get my point.
[QUOTE=NightHawk1967;6672444]Ok dudes. I notice my favorite NOVA place already clean up the act and takes the prices and other shit like measurement off the site. Next things we knows business tank and they pull up stakes and head outs like K-pops. Shit. NYC and Montreal too far for weekly bangs.
So, anybody had Ada yet? Support your local agency LOL. PM is OK.[/QUOTE]Yep. My fave NOVA place now has cut back to one gal. Next stop close. Support your local agencies or go backs to jackin off for a while!
[QUOTE=WillGuyMar;6671742]It was BEG and BTT because they were run by the same people in Boston. Not saying your source is wrong, but the charging document provides clarification. Fwiw, it doesn't mention SAG / LLVA and their affiliate in NY's site is still up. Even tweeted recently. They didn't require near the info BEG asked.[/QUOTE]Yeah she confirmed BEG / BTT later, she thinks the other sites are just laying low for now. Lots of places are just pulling out and laying low until they see what happens. Sucks for guys that can't get to LV or LA, but going to be slim pickings.
Last time I talked to her before this was August and she was supposed to start transitioning to helping them with apartments / hotel bookings and interviewing new girls, but I guess that's on hold for now.
[QUOTE=BallerTbakflsl;6672358]Went to BEG like 2-3 weeks ago and used Zelle. I am an idiot.[/QUOTE]Don't worry about it; unless you are a high-profile individual (security clearance, politician, ect), or known bad actors participating in trafficking as suggested in the affidavit the Feds are not going to bother chasing down a Class 1 Misdemeanor (Va state law) for Solicitation or Frequent a Bawdy Place. That maybe passed down to the state level investigators. IMO I doubt very seriously at the state level there are enough resources to investigate and then chase down each regular Joe Shmoe to eventually tie up the court system for a bunch of Class 1 Misdemeanors which is equivalent to a DUI / DWI, as I said that's just my opinion.
As for a peer to peer payment there is no burden of proof unless they have no evidence for something you may have purchased or more so that you actually showed up at a specific location tying your payment to a time and date.
All that being said just caulk it up to lesson learned, no PII and its cash only.
[QUOTE=BobORama;6672675]Only a matter of time before this all blows over. The owners will likely not face any jail time, at least not for prostitution or human trafficking. Just look at Wikipedia on Prostitution in the US: "Prostitution is illegal in the vast majority of the United States as a result of state laws rather than federal laws". There's no reason for federal agencies, like the DOJ and DHS, to get involved with suspected prostitution, as that's relegated to the state level. So now all they've got is human trafficking. But good luck getting those Korean women to testify. It should be noted that not a single news article mentioned that the authorities took these Asian women in for questioning. When you don't even have your main source of evidence in human trafficking cases (in this case, the women), what else have you got? Not much, so the cases will likely be tossed.
At best, they can probably hit the owners with money laundering or racketeering. So, some jail time is possible. But not much.
New agencies will pop up using different names. Probably run by the same people.
People on the so-called client list are safe. Having your name on a list is not evidence of a crime committed. Even sending text messages discussing payment for sex is not sufficient. They would need to catch you in the act to prove you engaged in prostitution. The agencies are not sting operations. There are no cameras set up inside the apartments.[/QUOTE]As I posted earlier, while it's unlikely that clients will get caught up in the criminal case, anyone who has a security clearance may still have cause for concern. That means govt employees and contractors, of which I'm sure some are on the client list, are potentially at risk.
Two things could happen: A willful or "accidental" release of client info, or a behind the scenes sharing of info with security clearance adjudication agencies. At this point there's no way to know if either of those would happen, but any client who tried to dispute or challenge might have to go public to do so, which carries its own set of problems. This is likely more of a concern in the VA and DC area than it is in MA, but still too early to sound the "all clear" signal.
About the defendants, I've only skimmed the publicly released info, but I've seen charges related to trafficking, money laundering, and identity theft. Activity that might ordinarily fall under state laws gets bumped up to the federal level once it crosses state / intl borders, or otherwise involves interstate commerce (which includes a wide range of things). Hard to say what kind of sentences they're facing as a lot will depend on how much money they're alleged to have laundered. And, while I haven't seen specifics, I wouldn't be surprised to see a denial of bail, or a really high bail amount, based on the possibility of flight risk.
About the alleged "trafficking" victims, the feds will likely roll out a whole host of carrot-and-stick incentives. For example, if any of the women acted as on-site mamasans (holding $, or any kind of management activity), they could be charged as a co-conspirator. Someone like that would be a good target to flip in exchange for a plea deal. For other women, allowing them to remain in the US (carrot) vs deportation (stick) is a likely tactic. Hard to say what any individual woman will do, but it only takes one or two for the "trafficking" charges to stick. And it's also normal practice to not put all of your evidence into a publicly available affidavit. I'm guessing that interviews of clients and providers have already taken place, but that info is not required to be disclosed unless the case goes to trial AND a specific individual is on the witness list.
Lots of stuff yet to unfold. Stay tuned!
P.S. Will new agencies pop up? Absolutely! The world's oldest profession is resilient in the extreme. Run by the same people? Highly risky for them unless they run things from outside the US, in a country where extradition is unlikely. Repeat offenders in the federal system tend to get slammed pretty hard.
[QUOTE=BobORama;6672675]Only a matter of time before this all blows over. The owners will likely not face any jail time, at least not for prostitution or human trafficking. Just look at Wikipedia on Prostitution in the US: "Prostitution is illegal in the vast majority of the United States as a result of state laws rather than federal laws". There's no reason for federal agencies, like the DOJ and DHS, to get involved with suspected prostitution, as that's relegated to the state level. So now all they've got is human trafficking. But good luck getting those Korean women to testify. It should be noted that not a single news article mentioned that the authorities took these Asian women in for questioning. When you don't even have your main source of evidence in human trafficking cases (in this case, the women), what else have you got? Not much, so the cases will likely be tossed.
At best, they can probably hit the owners with money laundering or racketeering. So, some jail time is possible. But not much.
New agencies will pop up using different names. Probably run by the same people.
People on the so-called client list are safe. Having your name on a list is not evidence of a crime committed. Even sending text messages discussing payment for sex is not sufficient. They would need to catch you in the act to prove you engaged in prostitution. The agencies are not sting operations. There are no cameras set up inside the apartments.[/QUOTE]Rebrands, new crews, websites and locations should do the trick. No way human trafficking sticks. All the girls I have seen took this as a job like any other, but this one pays a lot more. Thinking this has to do with Politics and elections right now. By next year it's going to be all about Fentanyl crisis.
[QUOTE=BallerTbakflsl;6672358]Went to BEG like 2-3 weeks ago and used Zelle. I am an idiot.[/QUOTE]If you don't have a security clearance, then I wouldn't lose any sleep about it. IMO, it's unlikely that any individual client will get dragged into the criminal case. And, even if you do have a clearance, it's likely that your info is at the bottom of a list of hundreds (thousands?) of other clients. Also, considering how long the affidavit is (60 pages!) it must have taken weeks to draft / finalize / approve, which means the evidence that was gathered to support it would come from an even earlier time. The feds might have continued gathering info, but at some point they run into diminishing returns. No guarantees, of course, but being at the bottom of the list, if you're even on it at all, is better than other scenarios. Of course, if you were a regular, with lots of visits and Zelle transactions, your exposure (no pun intended) will be higher.
FWIW, most mongers have screwed up at some point. Hopefully it's not too serious and can serve as a learning experience. Trading PII for access to pussy is a risky proposition. Too risky for me, others can decide for themselves.
Looking for some recs. Any girl with some energy and decent looks. Has anyone seen any girls from BO or APC that hit the spot? There are no reviews for Ami or Sakura on here yet.
Any info on Berry? There is some info from a TER review a few months ago. Same girl?
[QUOTE=Erikleewashdc;6672278]Was there ever a website named Happy Together or Happy something? I know they ran out of that APT building in Moasic which was one of the target apartments in the law doc.[/QUOTE]HappyTogetherVA was in Mosaic pre pandemic. When they came back to the area after a hiatus I think they were in a Tysons Apt complex.
Hard to believe that no one who posts on these boards (or other review sites) wasn't picked up. Unless we're just the 1% of the 1% who like to chat about it. When I was in a MP in MoCo that got busted while I was there you're damn right I was posting about it when I got home.
I've been seeing girls in BEG, Boston10, blossom, angels, AG, BO, and a ton of other places the last several weeks consistently multiple times a week and no one has reached out to me. They have all my PI too. I'm not worried, but I told my lawyer just in case.