"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Jaw, sorry if I sounded short with you earlier. I was just in a rush to go meet USB for breakfast. Anyway, I hope everything works out for you, and please let us know what happens. I agree with the others that, if you haven't given her real info about yourself, you have nothing to worry about.

Anyway, back to breakfast with USB (unemployed SB). She is heading out of town for a few days, so we took the rare opportunity to see each other this morning (instead of after I finish work). We had a nice breakfast and returned to her place for a little kissy-face. We both got pretty revved up, but she is not available for a quickie right now, so we ended up having some manual fun together. She gets unbelievably turned on by that, too, so it was a good time. A week apart and a somewhat frank discussion have helped us reset things so they are not so "clingy" when we're not together. We have good chemistry, so I'm looking to keep her in the rotation.

Had dinner earlier this week with SB39, who I believe I've only mentioned once before. Very attractive MILF (grown kids) , never married, just looking for fun and companionship. She's never discussed sugar up to this point, and this week she said she's not even really seeking it. Bingo. The downside is that I think it will take more effort to get physical, but I enjoy her company, so I'm not necessarily in any rush--especially since all it's costing me is dinner and drinks every now and then. And of the three I'm currently seeing, she is the most mature, stable, and "normal," and we have the most in common. Plus, I kind of dig dating an older chick.

Finally, I have another M&G with SB23 tomorrow. I suggested a hotel, and she politely declined. I think we will get there eventually, but she, unlike SB39, HAS openly wanted to discuss sugar, so we'll have to start making progress soon.

At some point, I'll have to cull one or two from the rotation, as I have neither the time nor the finances to keep all three.

Good luck in the bowl, friends.

Regards,

Joe

[QUOTE=Jaw4You; 1449495]I have been and out do the SB scene for over 10 years and had three great relationships. In the past months I have been reading the posts here and decided to place an add with SA. In the past I had used SB4U and this is where I had my success, but I also encountered all the same problems as mentioned here when I tried to cancel my account. So I figured try something new and SA was highly recommended.

Met some one online and chatted via text and email. Finally set up the meet and was supposed to have this nice dinner in the Slip. Dinner time comes and she doesn't show. I text and nothing, so I finally give her a call. This is where it gets weird, and now I am spooked and getting ready to call the cops.

She says she is going to tell me the truth because I seem like a really nice guy. She says she is working for a woman in Richmond who has several girls on the dating sites. These girls are paid by the woman (claims $3, 000) for very name and contact information they turn over. She says that this woman then contacts the family of the SD because she feels this is not Christian behavior. She tells me she doesn't want to do this anymore but needs the money to get back home to NC.

Basically she is telling me to help her financially or she will give my name to the woman. I told her I won't do this and that I consider this blackmail and extortion. She said she is just asking for a little help. But now it is weeks later and she contacted me again and said how sorry she is, but she can't make it and is turning my name over. I didn't respond, but have kept the texts and am thinking of turning it all over to the local police. I did contact SA before taking my profile down and they told me that they have had no complaints like this in the Richmond area and that it sounds like a scam.

So oh knowledgeable group; any advice for someone losing sleep over this?[/QUOTE]I've had something similar happen in my past. You can search my posts to see how I handled it. It is most likely an empty threat because she is putting herself at risk. You can remind her that she can lose much more than you if she is convicted of extortion or blackmail.

If you feel the threat is real you have 2 options as I see it. If you have a police officer friend you can speak with unofficially to contact this person and let them know they are in big trouble if they don't lay off, that would most likely work.

If you don't have an unofficial way to handle it, you have to bite the bullet and make it an official matter. No fun, but it beats giving in to blackmail or extortion because they will ALWAYS come back for more.

Definitely post her profile here so that others can avoid a similar situation. Knowledge is power. Always cloak your real identity until you know you can trust.

My brothers,

I have many things to say, but nowhere near enough time at the moment to gather my thoughts, arrange them in some semblance of coherence, and type them in at 12 words per minute! This I will share, however: today is my one year anniversary of posting to this most excellent thread. What a long, strange trip it's been, to quote a song from my days.

I want to shout out to all of you, seniors and newbies alike, and say how proud I am to be among your membership.

As always, keep up the good work, and don't forget to write!

Scott.

PS. Mandy, you know I include you in "brothers.". Rest up in Florida.

[QUOTE=Spitfire; 1449953]I've had something similar happen in my past. You can search my posts to see how I handled it. It is most likely an empty threat because she is putting herself at risk. You can remind her that she can lose much more than you if she is convicted of extortion or blackmail.

If you feel the threat is real you have 2 options as I see it. If you have a police officer friend you can speak with unofficially to contact this person and let them know they are in big trouble if they don't lay off, that would most likely work.

If you don't have an unofficial way to handle it, you have to bite the bullet and make it an official matter. No fun, but it beats giving in to blackmail or extortion because they will ALWAYS come back for more.

Definitely post her profile here so that others can avoid a similar situation. Knowledge is power. Always cloak your real identity until you know you can trust.[/QUOTE]You have put yourself in a very difficult situation but there is hope. I had a situation where a girl threatened me and I put my team together (attorney & PI) and they found the girl! Needless to say they put the fucking fear of God (more like Police and Prison) and the "working girl" went away very quickly. My advice is to always have a team on the ready to fuck people like this chick up; legally. Additionally I never (now) use my real name, where I live, work or play unless I have known the girls for at least 1 year. Even then I don't trust them fully. Remember it is a business transaction not a love affair. I use them to bury my cock in all holes available and she receives rent money.

Happy Hunting and Play Safe!

I met the HYB otherwise known as SB23 last night for dinner. She was quite late, and I was quite angry about it, but she was sincerely apologetic, and when I look into those deep, brown eyes, well . . . let's just say I have a weakness for brown eyes. Needless to say, we ended up having a nice dinner.

She acknowledged my request to hold this meeting at a hotel, which she had politely declined. But she flat out said that she was ready to do that next time, so I am in. But, and this is most important "but," we have entered a period of tense and adversarial (though friendly) negotiations over sugar. She sure knows what the hell she is doing for "someone who's never done this before." We've gotten into so many details that it's like we're negotiating the Treaty of Versailles. Money, obviously, is on the table, as is the average meetings per month, how often sugar will be given, and so on. So far, we've settled on a twice-monthly allowance (a first for me) and meetings (on average) once a week. I will take care of incidentals like meals, drinks, and hotels (when needed). We've also narrowed the range of the actual sugar, but her most recent request is still 30% more than I wanted to give. I don't doubt she is worth it, but I have to think long and hard here. If I give what she wants, it de facto makes me a one woman man. I told her I need to think about it.

Wish me luck, brothers.

[QUOTE=JoesParty; 1451224]I met the HYB otherwise known as SB23 last night for dinner. She was quite late, and I was quite angry about it, but she was sincerely apologetic, and when I look into those deep, brown eyes, well. Let's just say I have a weakness for brown eyes. Needless to say, we ended up having a nice dinner.

She acknowledged my request to hold this meeting at a hotel, which she had politely declined. But she flat out said that she was ready to do that next time, so I am in. But, and this is most important "but," we have entered a period of tense and adversarial (though friendly) negotiations over sugar. She sure knows what the hell she is doing for "someone who's never done this before." We've gotten into so many details that it's like we're negotiating the Treaty of Versailles. Money, obviously, is on the table, as is the average meetings per month, how often sugar will be given, and so on. So far, we've settled on a twice-monthly allowance (a first for me) and meetings (on average) once a week. I will take care of incidentals like meals, drinks, and hotels (when needed). We've also narrowed the range of the actual sugar, but her most recent request is still 30% more than I wanted to give. I don't doubt she is worth it, but I have to think long and hard here. If I give what she wants, it de facto makes me a one woman man. I told her I need to think about it.

Wish me luck, brothers.[/QUOTE]Joe,

For what it's worth, something just smells bad here in my opinion. Let's say for a moment she is not a pro, nor has "done this before." The intensity of the negotiations, at least as you describe them, says to me that she is leading with her bank account first, and this will set the tone for all your future interactions. Ten bucks to hold her hand, twenty to put an arm around her, and so forth. Ok, maybe not [I]that[/I] a la carte, but you get the idea.

Now, what she proposes is in all honesty what you should expect to do anyway, i.e. meals, drinks, hotel, but the fact that she wanted all that on the table up front just doesn't sit well with me. As I say, she may be totally legit, but you and she are entering into this from different points of view, it seems, and you will ultimately be unhappy, I bet. Add to this the fact that it puts you over your comfort level in terms of sugar, and I just see disappointment ahead for both of you.

If it were me, I'd come back to her and say sorry, but this is what I can manage in terms of sugar, and then let her walk, if she does. As we all can attest, there are plenty of fish in the sea.

Hope you can sort it out, and certainly other brothers may have different opinions.

Enjoy the day,

Scott

Gentlemen, Scholars, Daddies & Lady,

I have a problem and need some advice and I come to you from the Chicago boards. I have been a long time lurker in this section of the forum. This thread may just be the most informative and entertaining collection of literature ever assembled on the subject of 'arrangements' ever compiled in the history of man. The pearls of wisdom gleamed by the likes of Nando, Drummer, Mr Scott, the Cmdr, Literal, of course the lovely & talented Mrs Mandy, and many others have been absolutely invaluable to my quest of becoming a first time father to some beautiful baby girl. You see the warden at my local lockdown has been cutting back on our contractually agreed upon serving of deserts to the point where now anything offered (if ever) after a hard day of working on the chain is some bland, dry stale coffee cake. The warm apple pies (a la mode) and tapioca puddings of yesteryear have long since vanished from the scene.

Using the wisdom learned on this thread, I recently placed a few hints online (SD site) letting any potential babies out there know that there is a new daddy in town looking for an arrangement. My preference is now & always has been the slutty soccer mom type, however I did not get any more descriptive than to specify that my age range would be in the late 30's to early 40's. I did not go out and seek anyone on the site, but instead waited to see who would come to me. Initially got inundated with the expected serving of spam, but within 2 days, one woman in particular started sending the suggestive 'winks' & 'kisses' at me quite often. 2-4 times a day. She did not have a picture up on the site, so I had no idea what she was about, but she was so persistent that I decided to bite, contact her & get my first look at her. What came back to me was EXACTLY what I am looking for. 40 years old, incredibly fit, tone hot body, long dark red hair, beautiful natural D cups, an ass that makes you stop and stare from 2 blocks away, and possibly the most amazing legs ever placed on a female form since Betty Grable. She is the woman I always fantasize about. She mentioned that she is a single unemployed mother trying to recover from some financial hardship. She is cool with the fact that I am an inmate in county lockdown most evenings.

She also mentioned she was trying to be an amateur model, and a little googling let me to find a few model profiles of her. She indeed has worked as a lingerie / fetish / MILF erotic model recently. She claimed she has not been going out with anyone since she split up with her last man. She specifically said she has not had sex in almost 2 years. (Yes, she's like a horny virgin ready to get her cherry popped all over again). She requested my photos before we went any farther, and then replied that I am exactly what she needs and she is ready to start negotiations. I am not a bad looking guy. 38, in good shape, snappy dresser, etc. But I'm no Brad Pitt, and Erotic Lingerie Fetish MILF Models (ELFMM's) usually do not approach me on a daily basis offering to let panties hit the floor. I was a bit surprised at how fast she bit.

Negations were quick and easy, she accepted my first offer & it fits nicely in my budget. We even agreed to a P4P arrangement since I do not know yet how often I'll get a chance to see her. It was specified that the P4P sessions will be long afternoons in a room with the goal of generating as many orgasms, in as many inventive ways as humanly possible for as long as I can remain conscious. Nothing else is required. No dinner, movies, shopping, etc. (But it would be appreciated for sure). I'll not get into specifics but the price for this arrangement will be much better for me than going escort rate, and if you adhere to the Cmdr's "CPO" formula, the CPO ratio may indeed wind up being somewhere close to free. We both have to drive a bit to see each other, and when the first date comes around even for the M&G, I'll have to do it on a work-release pass with a vacation day being burned. For that reason, the M&G ideally would be followed immediately by our first 'date'. She assures me that the M&G is optional & if we do it, it will only be a formality. She says that even if we meet for coffee, I had better have a room ready to go so that 4-6 hours of sperm extraction can begin even before the venti-mocha's have gone luke-warm. She tells me also that photographic recording for posterity is not a problem as well.

Our first window of opportunity for this therapy session to begin will be in a few days.

Once we agreed on terms, my inbox began to be flooded with high resolution images from her latest gynecological & rectal exam. I mean like 20 a day, all day long. Many of these I'm sure were from her personal XXX rated archive of herself (because I do not think she is changing in 12 different lingerie outfits in a single afternoon). However some for sure were done in 'real time' as I would reply to her with requests for specific poses, etc. She has accommodated each request thus far with an appropriate photo spread, and the photos come in never longer than one hour after request. Even after a few days it has not dropped off. Even as I type this to you, I can tell you what kind of panties she has (half) on at this very minute, and I can verify that she has not missed a single spot in her shaving this morning. The images keep flooding in, but she has completely given up using the keyboard, and now just copies & pastes the same 3 lines with each photo:

Pick a date.

I'll drive 1/2 way.

You better have a room ready.

OK, if you have already read this far, you are by now asking yourself "ChiGuy, you said you had a problem & need help. I'm not really seeing any problems here!". Well the reason why I am bothering to sit here & type this to you instead of depositing semen in her mouth by the liter at this very minute is thus:

I've read many trials and tribulations of you gentlemen over the past few months. And what has happened to me seems incredibly easy. A bit *too* easy. I usually live by the code of what is too good to be true usually is, and I may be getting cold feet.

My little brain tells me that I just hit the Mutha-Fucking Erotic Lingerie Fetish MILF Model Nympho Lottery (MFELFMMNL) , and that I need to grab a case of vitamin V, get my ass up there & start the orgasm generation pos-haste!

My big brain tells me that this is way too easy, way too perfect, and my Spidey senses are tingling because of it.

What do you guys think? Could this be some sort of setup? Could I be in for a Daddy-roll, or worse? In my googling I have found other personal info about her, her facebook, , blogs, etc & I'm 99% sure she's a real person. I still cannot shake the suspicions.

Any advice one way or the other would be greatly appreciated, as well as ways to protect myself. I've thus far used protection on my digital Johnson & shielded all communications. I have anonymous VOIP & texting & am obviously using pseudonyms & anonymous email accounts.

Thank you again for all the wisdom found here. This certainly makes life exciting!

Chi

Wow! I hardly know what to say. I'm with you from the standpoint of TGTBT, but it sounds like you've dotted all your I's and crossed all your T's. I would definitely do the M&G first. Just make sure she's alone and no one follows you to the hotel. I guess I'd still worry about blackmail, but it sounds like you've protected your identity well. Maybe you have hit the Jackpot. I can't wait to hear the report back no matter if you go through with it or not.

Best of luck!

Drummer.

[QUOTE=Chiguy606; 1451315]Gentlemen, Scholars, Daddies & Lady,

What do you guys think? Could this be some sort of setup? Could I be in for a Daddy-roll, or worse? In my googling I have found other personal info about her, her facebook, , blogs, etc & I'm 99% sure she's a real person. I still cannot shake the suspicions.

Any advice one way or the other would be greatly appreciated, as well as ways to protect myself. I've thus far used protection on my digital Johnson & shielded all communications. I have anonymous VOIP & texting & am obviously using pseudonyms & anonymous email accounts.

Thank you again for all the wisdom found here. This certainly makes life exciting!

Chi[/QUOTE]

Wow, this thread just gets better and better.

I don't have new experiences to share but I will offer the following about age gaps and sbs, based on my 12 sbs from a year ago, and also based on my experience with a variety of utrs, strippers, etc.

I admit I am not looking for a soul mate, just a pretty girl with erotic flesh who smells good and has an easy manner.

I'm 68. None of my sbs was over 40. Three were in their 30's. The others in their 20's.

I was worried I would repel them physically. It didn't happen. I could tell in most cases they were not acting with me the way they would with a man their age, but in almost all cases, I brought the girls to orgasm more than once. In every case, they wanted to keep up a relationship after I was tired of it. Was it just money? No, it was money plus eroticism and orgasms.

Before I tried sbs I tried strippers. I had four relationships. Same age group. Much much harder to arrange than sbs. All involved multiple sessions and orgasms by the girl. Three of the girls wanted to marry this old coot. The fourth just wanted a baby. I didn't offer those options.

Did these girls love me as I was loved when I was young? No, of course not. Did I give them pleasure and enough to make them want to stick around? You bet.

Perhaps some younger fellas will find this testimony unlikely. All I can say is, wait and see. There's more than one way to build a sexual relationship with a girl and age plus resources has its advantages.

Mr Drummer,

A few updates. The non-verbal memorandums regarding the visual status of her vaginal & anal orifices have continued to trickle into my email box today. (From her box to my box, so to speak). I now believe she is attempting to communicate with me using some secret pictographic form of written language who's characters are comprised entirely of female genitalia. It's absolutely fascinating. I compose a message to her in standard English, using meticulous care to use proper grammar and punctuation. Yet what comes back is a visual of a her crotch with legs contorted every which way, and various digits inserted into various openings. I find myself wondering if 2 middle fingers inserted into the vagina with the thumb touching the clitoral hood means in this language,"Sure Darling, The Holiday Inn Express sounds Fab. Please pick me up a blueberry Scone if you get there before I do!"

Besides our communication difficulties, I have done quite a bit more research since I made this post this morning. I've also done some soul searching and re-read some words of wisdom from this thread.

She has not been very careful to hide her aliases & seems to spend quite a bit of time writing about herself & her trials & tribulations online. All of which I have read today.

This hot Erotic nympho seems to have a history of making bad decisions (Newsflash: SB candidates are NOT the most responsible people in the world?).

I then turned back to this particular trove of SugarDaddy wisdom. What most stuck out for me when searching for answers here is this passage by Brother Hernando:

[URL=http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?9746-quot-Sugarbabies-quot-quot-Arrangements-quot-Amateurs-or-Not&p=1378217&viewfull=1#post1378217]The Book of the SugarBaby, Chapter 38, verse 1063[/url]

It clearly states:

[quote]Say to yourself." I can not save them from themselves " 1000 times and you might have it. The unique thread with all of them is they do not work at anything except trying to get money by not working for it. Many are single mothers with no babydaddy in the picture, and therefore no child support. If a SB applicant says 1) I don't have a job. 2) I don't have a car (license) .3) I can't work because I can't afford child care. 4) I only work part time. 5) I just do a little pot 6) I need money because I am going to (fill in the tragedy here).hang up, block their profile, do whatever it takes to erase them from your memory.[/quote]She has already volunteered to me that she fails 2 out of the above tests, and based on my readings today, I have suspicions on a 3rd potential failed litmus.

She indeed should be considered a confirmed and fully licensed "Nando1". An incredibly hot, nympho-maniacal, 'photogenic', aspiring MILF fetish porn model Nando1, but a Nando1 nonetheless.

I think I clearly know now why she is acting the way she is. She's desperate for cash the way any good Nando1 is. The only question I wrestle with now is [b]do I really wish to invite, and indeed pay for, yet another Drama Empress into my life in exchange for potentially freaky sex on a scale that I have not even fathomed could be possible between 2 human beings! If I pass this up, will it haunt me for the remainder of my days as that lingering 'What if' that got away. [/b]

This, my brothers, is the burden which I must now bear. I do have a few more days until the semen extraction procedure is scheduled to begin. I shall face these next few days with a terrible weight on my shoulders, and balls a shade of blue. I shall keep you updated.

[QUOTE=Atldrummer; 1451556]Wow! I hardly know what to say. I'm with you from the standpoint of TGTBT, but it sounds like you've dotted all your I's and crossed all your T's. I would definitely do the M&G first. Just make sure she's alone and no one follows you to the hotel. I guess I'd still worry about blackmail, but it sounds like you've protected your identity well. Maybe you have hit the Jackpot. I can't wait to hear the report back no matter if you go through with it or not.

Best of luck!

Drummer.[/QUOTE]

Chi,

First, welcome to the forum. As I have found to be true, you have certainly come to the right place for advice. It will be interesting to see how the majority rules on your question about whether to proceed with this SB potential. My suspicion is that is with be a hung jury "no pun intended".

I have far less experience than most on this board, but if given the same opportunity I would indeed proceed with the M&G. One of my first SB experiences was a response from a 21 year old SB that started sending me lots of txts and soon after a series of poses. I was suspicicious at first, thinking the worst, but she has turned out of be one of the nicest and most sincere SBs I have met to date. This gal may just be hungry for attention and unsure of the best way to proceed with anything other than visual assurances that she is ready to start the "semen extraction" process.

I think it all depends what YOU are looking for, but I wouldn't rule her out entirely. Just proceed with caution and keep your identity protected until you figure out that level of trust thing.

Have some fun, use your head (preferably both of them) , and enjoy the ride.

Alias.

[QUOTE]I think I clearly know now why she is acting the way she is. She's desperate for cash the way any good Nando1 is. The only question I wrestle with now is [b]do I really wish to invite, and indeed pay for, yet another Drama Empress into my life in exchange for potentially freaky sex on a scale that I have not even fathomed could be possible between 2 human beings! If I pass this up, will it haunt me for the remainder of my days as that lingering 'What if' that got away. [/b]

This, my brothers, is the burden which I must now bear. I do have a few more days until the semen extraction procedure is scheduled to begin. I shall face these next few days with a terrible weight on my shoulders, and balls a shade of blue. I shall keep you updated.[/QUOTE]

ChiGuy,

Others on here have more experience and wisdom than I do, but here's my two cents on your stimulating opportunity.

There's no way to predict what will happen with your brazen baby. They come in all flavors. Fifty-fifty she's a flake. The other 50 is that she's your dream fuck. My suggestion is just be careful: don't spend money in advance, don't do anything illegal and try to keep your true identity secret from her. Then take it a step at a time. Since she's so wanton, invite her to meet in your car in a hotel parking lot and see if you can get a finger up her. If you can, she should be good to go and you can take her upstairs. (Tell her to use the side door while you go in and register.)

I've only had one sb encounter similar to the one you describe. It pales by comparison, but in my case a young mother at her computer sent me a few pussy, ass and boob pix and talked about how wet she was and wanted to have me inside her. This was in our first conversation. She knew nothing about me other than my profile. She dodged meeting me though and when I finally caught up with her she was behind the counter in a clothing store and wouldn't come to my hotel. It took me many weeks to get her into the fucking chamber and when I did she was over the top hungry for sex but extremely focussed on her own pussy and not so much on Mr Johnson. She was ok, but I only saw her once. She told me she had been masturbating to our online chats. I still hear from her occasionally and she has sent more pussy pix in exchange for some sexy talk which she uses to help herself get off.

Just a quick couple of thoughts, then off to an in-law barbecue. Yea!

I agree with what has been said here: as long as you have kept your secret identity, stayed under deep cover, and have an exit strategy, what's the harm is seeing this to the next step? If you are compromised on any of the foregoing, abort the mission and fake your own death. This baby will be clingy, needy, mercenary and drive you insane. Even pussy pictures get old someday. I think the fact that she fails two of Nando's test questions should give you pause, at the very least, That said, if you approach this as a harmless romp, and are not somehow deluding yourself that you can rescue her, change her, or otherwise ameliorate the 4-act drama that is sure to unfold, you will be fine.

As I say, just a quick couple of thoughts.

Good luck, and don't forget to write!

Scott

Welcome ChiGuy! You sound well read, experienced and write like a novelist. You will be a good addition to the board.

Now, off to the TGTBT. I understand why your alarm bells are ringing but the bottom line is. She is available apparently and worth a look. All the guys have affirmed not to let any personal data leak out, including auto license plates. So go meet this hungry Ho, park your car well away from the FC so that she doesn't get a look at your ride, carry only cash, leave the wallet in the car, and have a great time! If she is a Nando 1 it will be very apparent. The key is the desperate calls for help. Rent's due, car broke, can't afford to fly to her mother's funeral, you know. A Nando 1.

A story : I contacted this pot on AM, definitely TGTBT but I couldn't help myself. She was a coed (HCB) at Mr Jefferson's University (so she said) , and the 5 pictures in her profile put her at a 10 on the lookometer. I emailed her and she wrote back. That was a minor miracle in itself. We had an entire day of sex talk including what we were going to do with each other and she kept asking "how soon could we meet?" Well, I had already wasted a day blowing off work and sexting this hot girl. So we arranged to talk on the phone later, and we did. She sounded verrrry young and tentative, unlike her aggressive email sex talk. I began to have doubts plus she was awkward to talk to. The words were not flowing in a smooth way. So after a little more talk we hung up and I texted her back that I couldn't wait to meet. Well she wrote back curtly and said not to ever contact her again. WTF? I agreed but first insisted on hearing why she had this dramatic change of heart. This is what happened

1) she said she felt too attracted to me and did not want to get emotionally involved,

2) I sounded like a creeper to her and grossed her out;

3) I talked her into meeting later and when I arrived the police were waiting;

4) I called her right back and after talking we agreed to meet later that night which we did, and we matched orgasms for 3 hours.

5) something else

Tell me what you think happened and I will let you know the answer tomorrow.

[QUOTE=JoesParty;1451224]But, and this is most important "but," we have entered a period of tense and adversarial (though friendly) negotiations over sugar.[/QUOTE]I've seen posts like this before and didn't quite have the words to chime in on the topic, but I seem to have found them. I'm sorry but I find it funny that you all seem to be annoyed at SB's who make sure the sugar aspect is nailed down before they do anything. While, I will admit this isn't really my style, any new SB who has done her research has read a number of experienced SB's write that this is a must.

The topic of negotiating sugar is well written about and discussed in the SB world. And, we are MUCH more connected than the SD's are. While there aren't lesson on tact, the message does come across that all of the details need to be nailed down before any visits to the fc occur.

Like I said, not my thing, because I do look for more than the allowance but you shouldn't discount a new SB just because of that. She is most likely just doing what she's read.

Mandy