"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=FreeSpiritFet;4107833]
Isn't that awkward to negotiate money face to face? LOL I never done this before, I do need help.

Second. What is the most polite way to ask how much they want for PPM LOL.

Third. Some girls are willing to hangout and go back to their place after. Because I told them that is my plan and they are ok with it. I mean normal looking girl, Not Pro either. If we fuck without even mention the price, then what? How much I need to give those kind of girls.

I first told them I'm looking for chemistry both emotionally and physically. That is the hint to say I want to fuck you, right? Most would say, Yes, they want to the same thing. Then, I also want to double check, because too many say yes on my first question, so I ask again. I told them straightforward, My ideal date would be yummy food, lots laugh and intimacy at the end of night. And ask them if they are comfortable with that plan? I'm really shocked how many girls tell me Yes! So I feel, If there is a room ready to go, those young girls are not hard to get at all![/QUOTE]I'll try to address the points where I think you want feedback:

1. There is a way to do all of this without EVER negotiating anything, and that is my modus operandi. Most of the girls I end up with want a man who is decisive and in charge of everything, and by definition if one is negotiating with an 18-22 year old, about anything, is not an indicator of a man in charge. This is not to say it doesn't work for some, it just doesn't produce the best possible results.

2. This ties into #1 -- the best way to ask how much they want is to never ask them how much they want. It's simply putting them in control of the situation to do that. To elaborate on #1, it can all be done without ever discussing dollar amounts. Over the years I've written a lot about my own techniques, just do a search on my username if interested in my particular methods. I'm of the belief that there is no common formula that works for everyone, but by understanding how others operate we can refine our own game plan.

3. How much to ultimately gift depends on other factors such as how much time she has spent with you (including number of fucks and quality of each, etc) how much you've spent on other dating expenses (dinner, etc), but be fair when you do the math. For example if I spend $150 on dinner, maybe $75 of that tab is spending on myself. Then, was it her idea or mine to go to a place with pricey options? If mine, I'm not going to deduct a full 50% from the gift I give her. On the other hand, if she orders lots of expensive extra sides and fancy desserts, takes a couple of bites of each and discards, then yeah all that is coming out of her gift. Same thing if she is staying with me a couple of days and wants to go clubbing at night, shopping during the day.

The fact that you're reporting lots of girls are saying yes, then I have to assume you're either relatively attractive, or are mostly fishing in UTR waters. Either one of those alone will produce a lot of positive responses, but depending on which of them is the case, your game should really be optimized accordingly. If they are very attracted to you, a lot of them will be on board for anything and you can get away with little to no payment if that's the goal. Then again if you're throwing amounts out there, you'll mostly attract UTR girls who are looking for the money and nothing else, and as long as you're paying as much or higher than others are offering her, then you'll get plenty.

There are a couple of numbers to remember in all this, too -- how the girl ranks according to your taste on a 1-10 scale, and how she likely ranks to the taste of most SDs. For example, if you prefer AA girls that are 5'10" and athletic, then what looks like an 8 to you might be a 4 to the average SD. You'll find great success in a case like that, simply because of less competition.

All forms of dating, even pure civy dating are based on supply and demand, so you need to be very aware of what exactly it is you are able to supply (both non-monetarily and monetarily) and what it is you're demanding (in terms of the girls) in order to fine tune your game and get the best results.

[QUOTE=FreeSpiritFet;4107833]

So here are my question part and need you guys help.

First. I read lot of stuff here and many people say never never negotiate before the meeting.

But what if I did meet these 2 girls, and we do like each other, and they ask too much, then what? Isn't that waste of the time to them? Don't get me wrong, I'm fine just hangout with those young girls.

Isn't that awkward to negotiate money face to face? LOL I never done this before, I do need help.

Second. What is the most polite way to ask how much they want for PPM LOL. ![/QUOTE]Really one in the same question. Laying out the scenario you had in mind is a strong first step -- there is also usually some implied time commitment for the after dinner / drink activity.

In keeping with the "don't treat them like a *****" philosophy -- never be direct. Be creative and speak in metaphors, but link them back to what you've talked about (demonstrate you are listening / reading). If they are students, ask "what tuition assistance package would be expected for our evening of fun and games" -- if they are struggling 20 somethings, ask about their "debt repayment package" or the like. If they are SBs to live the high life "how big a shopping budget would be appropriate". They know exactly what you mean and will laugh at your turn of the phrase.

Similarly, you probably want to avoid the one shot dates. So you will want to establish that as well without making the feel they are quoting you by the hour "What time do you turn into a pumpkin? "Do you need any study time before tomorrow's classes". "we could meet for drinks and dinner, then adjourn for dessert and a midnight snack. Maybe even breakfast in bed".

[QUOTE=FreeSpiritFet;4107833]
Third. Some girls are willing to hangout and go back to their place after. Because I told them that is my plan and they are ok with it. I mean normal looking girl, Not Pro either. If we fuck without even mention the price, then what? How much I need to give those kind of girls.
[/QUOTE]Whatever you feel the evening was worth. If they aren't happy, they will let you know. If you don't totally low ball them, but they were expecting more just say "well we did not discuss it, and I did not have time to go to the ATM -- did not want you to feel bought and paid for" but Ill make it up to you on our next meeting, assuming her expectation is reasonable for your experience.

[QUOTE=FreeSpiritFet;4107833]
Unlike Ernest Li's post, I never act grateful to be getting into their holes (although I most certainly am grateful inside). Enthusiastic to be hitting it to for sure, but never that I am grateful that they are willing to give their hot young body to my ancient self. I project two attitudes to them sexually: (I) entitlement. I absolutely expect them to please me in any way they can, and I am confident they will do that. So they do, because they don't want to disappoint daddy. And (ii) "matter of fact-ness," for want of a better word. That is, the idea that sex is just normal and what adults do in private. Not a big deal and nothing to giggle about. Often we will bring food and wine to the hotel room and hang out, so the sex is only part of the FC visit. And I act as though the money is just incidental and not the reason they are hanging (and banging) with me. We all know they would never have returned the first I'm if not for the prospect of money, but I act like I don't know that, and that makes it easier for them to convince themselves also.
[/QUOTE]I should have been more specific, but have found this approach works well with the princess want to be's. Some of them just want to be treated like nasty sluts and will tell you as much. Its more about finding what resonates with them. If they are banging Daddy to get even with their real a-hole absentee dad, its a different dynamic from the ones who were never treated like a gorgeous little princess.

[QUOTE=FreeSpiritFet;4107833]I was so excited to join the SA and finally pull the trigger to start.
So here are my question part and need you guys help.

First. I read lot of stuff here and many people say never never negotiate before the meeting.

But what if I did meet these 2 girls, and we do like each other, and they ask too much, then what? Isn't that waste of the time to them? Don't get me wrong, I'm fine just hangout with those young girls.

Isn't that awkward to negotiate money face to face? LOL I never done this before, I do need help.

Second. What is the most polite way to ask how much they want for PPM LOL.

[/QUOTE]Trust me, all of the girls on SA that are willing to have sex are PPM. SA changes dramatically every 6 months as it's popularity grows. EVIL TMP is 100% right! The decent-looking girls are getting 100 messages a day. They're trying to sift through and find out who's real. And who's going to give them the MOST money with the LEAST amount of headache. In the last 6 months, I have not chatted with one girl on SA that didn't ask me about allowance up front. Most of them are poor college students and they don't have the time, desire, or gas money to meet up with a bunch of men for free. And you shouldn't be wasting your hard-earned money and time unless you know you're going to leave the meet-and-greet with at least a BJ.

[QUOTE=ErnestLl;4108956]I should have been more specific, but have found this approach works well with the princess want to be's. Some of them just want to be treated like nasty sluts and will tell you as much. Its more about finding what resonates with them. If they are banging Daddy to get even with their real a-hole absentee dad, its a different dynamic from the ones who were never treated like a gorgeous little princess.[/QUOTE]The quote Ernest copied was re-quoted from my post. I may be over-generalizing as well. It seems ALL the girls I have met from SA have Daddy issues and are naturally submissive to one degree or another. I expect this is true of a high proportion of all SA girls, but not of all of them. It is just that what I am projecting only attracts those girls. That's fine with me. I am happy to stick with what works, and submissive comes in handy when you want what you want.

I am sure there are lots of other girls on there with different preferences, I just don't meet them. Like I said, my response rate is small. To make up for this, I send out a lot messages. My conversion rate once I meet them is also basically 100% (excluding the ones who got to the meet & greet by fraud), so it works.

In particular, I am not meeting the princess types. This is partly self selection, as I am actively avoiding any whiff of GPS, while not talking prices. And I am sure it is selection on their part as well, as I am not giving off a vibe that I am going to spend more than any other daddy.

SA is a big pond, with all kinds of fish in it, and I am sure lots of different approaches will work with different girls. I know a lot of guys on here like to specify prices and services before even meeting, and figure that saves them time. I'm going for a different experience, but everyone should go with what works for them.

[QUOTE=FreeSpiritFet;4108835]I know many of guys here on SA just try to get young girls which is fine, and try to score them as many as possible which I understand it too.

But my intention maybe different. Just in a few days, I found a lot of girls will do PPM for 100,200, 250,300, the highest I see is 500. I'm not into those girls. I want to find those newly join, not much experience on SA but think they can just provide companionship for money, and I want to turn those "good" girls to "bad" girls.

Save the bad girls, and turn the good girl to bad. That is what really turn me on. For that purpose, I'm willing to be patient and take my time.[/QUOTE]If you own a strip club, then you know what these girls are all about. There's no such thing as turning good girls into bad girls. The girls lie about being new. They lie about everything! They're going to tell you whatever you want to hear to get as much money out of you as possible. Just like we sit here and chat and talk about all of the maniacal ways that we can get what we want, they are doing the same. The problem that some of you guys are having is that you're treating it like an actual "dating" site. The girls on SA are on there to make money. If there hanging out with you before having sex with you, it's only because they want to feel you out and find your weak points. They're doing what every female on Earth over the age of "3" does, they're trying to figure out how to manipulate you. They're not chatting with us or hanging out with us because they're enjoying our company.

[QUOTE=Rustyshk;4109215]If you own a strip club, then you know what these girls are all about. There's no such thing as turning good girls into bad girls. The girls lie about being new. They lie about everything! They're going to tell you whatever you want to hear to get as much money out of you as possible. Just like we sit here and chat and talk about all of the maniacal ways that we can get what we want, they are doing the same. The problem that some of you guys are having is that you're treating it like an actual "dating" site. The girls on SA are on there to make money. If there hanging out with you before having sex with you, it's only because they want to feel you out and find your weak points. They're doing what every female on Earth over the age of "3" does, they're trying to figure out how to manipulate you. They're not chatting with us or hanging out with us because they're enjoying our company.[/QUOTE]As some have said recently in this thread, a little cynical viewpoint. As some veterans like F Scott and bikerider like to say, you get the sugarbowl you are looking for. I am not looking for what you're talking about above, and thankfully, I repel women who want that.

I use this service a lot for a FC venue in my area, as I have a SO. I always have the SB get the room, it is truly a treat. It is less than 100 and super nice, no Motel 6, so they feel good about it. Available 9 or 10 am to 3 or 4 pm. Last time w / the 22 YO PYT SB I am seeing, I was early and sitting in the parking structure, waiting for her to check in and text me the room #. I see a compact economy car enter and park directly in front of me. A young girl gets out. I am looking to see if its my SB, b / c if so I can get her license plate (and for $40, her real name) - but it's not her. However, she not only has all the indicators of a SB (yoga pants), she's loading stuff into some tote bags, etc. , and running into the hotel. Got to get ready before daddy gets there. LOL. I figure a few other SDs are also aware of hotelsbyday and are using it like I am. This is in Orange County, CA, in case anyone would like to compare notes.

I have no experience of HotlesByDay but have been using [URL]Dayuse.com[/URL] a lot. Dayuse let's you reserve without a credit card or deposit and cancel right up to the last minute without penalty. Hotels are all very nice. In my area a lot of them are Hiltons and affiliated brands.

Like to hear from bothers who have used both and can compare them.

[QUOTE=DogBert77;4110006]I have no experience of HotlesByDay but have been using [URL]Dayuse.com[/URL] a lot. Dayuse let's you reserve without a credit card or deposit and cancel right up to the last minute without penalty. Hotels are all very nice. In my area a lot of them are Hiltons and affiliated brands.

Like to hear from bothers who have used both and can compare them.[/QUOTE]Have been using HotelsByDay exclusively in my area, MA / NH. The pros: cheap daytime rate as low as $65 for big name chain, early am check in, 8 am in some case, no CC required to reserve. The cons: have to check out by 6 pm.

[QUOTE=Javazer;4110227]Have been using HotelsByDay exclusively in my area, MA / NH. The pros: cheap daytime rate as low as $65 for big name chain, early am check in, 8 am in some case, no CC required to reserve. The cons: have to check out by 6 pm.[/QUOTE]Make sure you check the hotels app before booking either (hotelbyday or Dayuse). Last time I booked (there's only 1 hotel in my home city that are on the sites) the day rate was $89 for 9-4 & the rate for a regular night was only 20 more so I just booked the night instead but was still able to check in before noon.

[QUOTE=DavidS78;4110286]Make sure you check the hotels app before booking either (hotelbyday or Dayuse). Last time I booked (there's only 1 hotel in my home city that are on the sites) the day rate was $89 for 9-4 & the rate for a regular night was only 20 more so I just booked the night instead but was still able to check in before noon.[/QUOTE]The daytime occupancy is not really a choice for me but rather a necessity as I have a SO in life. So HotelsbyDay works perfectly for me, just wish they have more locations to offer in the near future. Keep receiving solicitation to invest in their startup.

J.

I have a business trip need go to LA this Sunday, so I'm searching some local beauty to spend a night.

Dam, they are all pricy!

This one 1000 PPM.

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/122329be-be86-4a79-8daa-8d7f69f4be3f[/URL]

This, 800 PPM.

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/ed8323dd-14d6-4a4a-a176-226922548fc3[/URL]

Dam, I'm not used to see this number LOL.

Where are those 300 range? Dam.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;4105962]A pre-paid card that can be used for purchases to merchants outside the US is a bit of a holy grail. It seems like SA has a payment system that can tolerate the readily available Visa Vanilla cards, that aren't advertised as such. Several other sites, including Secret Benefits and the email vendor I prefer, hushmail, don't have this. Are any of you SDs familiar w / a card that overcomes this issue? Specifics please. What is it, exactly, and where do you buy yours?[/QUOTE]I solved this problem and wanted to report the solution. Rather than using an online PayPal process, I got onto my sugar paypal account and did a payment by entering in an email address provided by my vendor. That went through.

I am not certain how long it will be possible to have PayPal accounts that are 'burners'. I have had this account for a few years, and they aren't asking me for verification of my identity, but some things I was trying to do to pay that vendor were certainly seeking that kind of info, which I am unwilling to give.

To be absolutely clear, I am buying prepaid cards like Vanilla Gift or OneVanilla, adding them to the PayPal account and making them the default payment option, and then using the Send Payment function on PayPal to pay. So, if you have a vendor who is unable to process one of your US-limited cards, ask them if they have an email address that can receive PayPal payments.

[QUOTE=Rustyshk;4109215]If you own a strip club, then you know what these girls are all about. There's no such thing as turning good girls into bad girls. The girls lie about being new. They lie about everything! They're going to tell you whatever you want to hear to get as much money out of you as possible. Just like we sit here and chat and talk about all of the maniacal ways that we can get what we want, they are doing the same. The problem that some of you guys are having is that you're treating it like an actual "dating" site. The girls on SA are on there to make money. If there hanging out with you before having sex with you, it's only because they want to feel you out and find your weak points. They're doing what every female on Earth over the age of "3" does, they're trying to figure out how to manipulate you. They're not chatting with us or hanging out with us because they're enjoying our company.[/QUOTE]True most of the time. But not all the time. With strip club girls maybe 97% of the time. But its one of the main reasons I stick with the younger ones. They've had less time to poison their minds. But it still blows me away how jaded and conniving they can be even at 18 and 19. Its a numbers game for sure. We are all looking for the gems. I have met at most one a year.