"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;4070338]I am quite active (=compulsive!) on seeking, recently joining for the next month. I am getting a lot of the "what do you provide for an allowance?" question in messaging on the site. In general I try to negotiate that at the M&G, face to face, to get the best deal. It is also risky to do on seeking, it seems people have gotten banned for getting into that. The site is appropriately paranoid about getting shut down.

I have replied that I can't talk about it on the site because it violates the terms of service, but then of course there's no prevention if we start texting or emailing. I have also said general stuff like 'I wouldn't know how to have that conversation w / someone I'd never met' and 'I'm sure you wouldn't like to discuss sexual acts w / a guy you only know over the internet'. Often times, the conversation stops at that point. I know I want to deflect the sugar discussion as long as possible, but am I missing out on some here? Is there a different way to say it to get them to M&G w / o a sugar promise, or at least a sense. At one point, I think I was saying something like "I'm not poor and I'm not cheap, and I have had very desirable SBs, and they never complained. " In the absence of the old 'lifestyle' buttons, it's hard to know what they want.

Are these who get to this question quickly just UTRs who I mostly am not interested in anyway?[/QUOTE]I look to see how long they have been on the site. With it being a really long time, I assume they are UTR and treat them accordingly. With the ones that are really new, I tell them I am open to various arrangements depending on how well we match up. A lot ask me what my previous arrangements were like. Some even ask how did I help my last SB. My usual reply is that depended on the situation that brought the person to SA. Whatever the case, we have a mutually beneficial arrangement that we can discuss over coffee or dinner and see where we might want to go from there.

The exception to all that occurs like what happens just before Christmas and around rent due time. Some of them will say they need X dollars soon to pay for whatever. I will decline or say we can meet for coffee and see if I can help. I never give them an amount when messaging. If I can't get them to meet me first, then it's not going to be the kind of arrangement I am looking for at this point in my life regardless of UTR or green newbie that has no clue what a real Sugar Baby is.

[QUOTE=Walruscl;4070640]Fortunately I've managed to not backslide that far. At most I see less than a pound difference when I "binge" (which basically translates into indulging in pub food, or a larger portion than I might normally have). And again, remarkably I sometimes see a small net loss over the course of a week where I binged once or twice. I know how much work "that last five pounds" are, so at the moment I'm pretty hell-bent on not letting things slide to the point where I'm facing that problem.[/QUOTE]I may not have that sense of relative difficulty of losing five pounds, because I'm sure it's harder than losing more pounds when the % over ideal weight is higher. But for me, not straying too far from the ideal is what makes it easier to get back to it when needed. It probably varies from one individual to another, but I've found that shedding about 2 lbs per week is pretty easily achieved (faster than that is probably not recommended), so if I get six pounds over, I'm only 2-3 weeks away from ideal, and I usually have at least that much notice before going on one of my traveling pussy-hunting binges.

Oddly enough, 6 extra pounds isn't really visibly detectable on me by others -- but I sure feel the difference. I'm already a naturally horny person anyway, but loss of that last 5 pounds seems to greatly magnify sex drive for some reason. It's as if my brain has been trained to acknowledge the slight difference in weight as the difference between "comfort day to day" and "optimal hunting mode". LOL. So it expects and craves more sex more often. Or maybe it's the diet modifications I make. Going to the gym is a year-round thing for me, varying slightly in frequency of visits, so not a tremendous amount of change there one way or the other. It's mostly dietary changes that seem make the difference in that last five.

I appreciate when a girl exhibits GPS early on. It allows me to cross them off the list without investing too much time or money.

We've all made mistakes in the bowl, especially early on. I'm no different and spent too much on some girls early on. I found that there is actually an inverse relationship to the amount a girl demands and quality of the experience.

Girls that only do it for the money, think they are "the shit" and are doing me a favor, have almost always been a disappointment. Girls that genuinely like older men, are down to earth and appreciate what I offer, have almost always been a much better experience.

Surprisingly, there is little correlation to looks. The first group always dresses well, but often is hiding or covering up physical flaws. The second group is often much more casual, less confident in their appearance, but often take much better care of their health and natural appearance.

Often girls will use how much it costs them for their hair, nails, clothes, make-up, etc as rationale for needing an allowance for the meet and greet. My thought every time is "what are they trying to hide?" The prettiest women I've ever known were naturally beautiful and didn't need make-up, nails, hair styling, heels and outfits to make them beautiful.

Similar to the recent discussion on this board, I believe more girls should focus on diet and exercise more so than make-up, nails, styling and outfits.

[QUOTE=Walruscl;4071265]See my post farther down, just happened to me recently. It was strange because usually the GPS girls (in my experience anyway) tend to not be the ones in pursuit. But she reached out to me first, and when I started to flake a little on her she didn't give up. Until we went to text of course, at which point the financials came up again, and then she let it drop that $500 was non-negotiable. Which is ironic because if it's that non-negotiable, that must mean she has SD's beating a path to her door, so why did she feel the need to pursue me?

I don't think she was a UTR, just a GPS who is looking at it very much as a transaction, and for whatever reason (ego, greed, whatever) needs to have the number be high. The one time I agreed to that amount was from someone who claimed to pull down $800 on occasion, but at the same time I was her last SD because she had given up on it as an activity with a good ROI for her. She had no spark, wasn't a clock-watcher but was very stingy with her time, and very much seemed to be of the mindset that she was the one doing me the favor. The latter wasn't obnoxiously so, but that was her general thought process.

So, I'm rambling, but I had no problem just walking away from these situations (demanding to talk financials first, are out of my price range) because I do think that these are girls I am not interested in. The entire vibe is wrong, as they are more likely to be calculating an ROI in terms of their time and are doing it more for the financials than the sex. As a result, the sex is probably not going to be as good, simply because they are either not into it or are treating it so casually that there's no spark.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;4071349] The prettiest women I've ever known were naturally beautiful and didn't need make-up, nails, hair styling, heels and outfits to make them beautiful.[/QUOTE]My first long-term SB was exactly like this, as is my current SB. And they are pretty in non-glamorous ways, which to me makes them all the more attractive. My first SB in particular would dress in a way that de-emphasized her slim, spinner physique. Between that and a slightly nerdy demeanor, you'd have no clue of the sexual energy lurking underneath. So it was a real ego rush to know her "secret", and that I was the guy who enjoyed the fruits of that.

I assume any potential SB who doesn't have in her profile Platonic or not looking for sex, is going to be open for it. Assuming as well that you have game.

Thoughts?

[QUOTE=Walruscl;4071408]My first long-term SB was exactly like this, as is my current SB. And they are pretty in non-glamorous ways, which to me makes them all the more attractive. My first SB in particular would dress in a way that de-emphasized her slim, spinner physique. Between that and a slightly nerdy demeanor, you'd have no clue of the sexual energy lurking underneath. So it was a real ego rush to know her "secret", and that I was the guy who enjoyed the fruits of that.[/QUOTE]My own SB experience is this. I have 2 SBs, one a MILF in her 40's and one in her 30's. Both are pretty but not a knockout by any means. One is a church girl, another a single mom. These girls are the best in bed. Open to all possiblities, they enjoy sex (both tell me and show it), one is a squirter. So, while there are a lot of stuck up "beautiful girls" on SA. I'll take the non-mercenary normal gals. When they leave, my balls are completely empty. Its great.

GG.

Unfortunately it's not that clear cut. There is not a rule book and many girls interpret things things their own way. Just because a girl says platonic, doesn't mean she isn't open to intimacy in the right situation. By contrast, just a girl doesn't say platonic only doesn't mean she is willing to be intimate with you. I've seen an increase in online only and pic / video traders especially since the site changed its format.

Just like not everyone interprets FWB or NSA differently I think intimacy is the same. It's up to us to ask the right questions which is unfortunately can't happen on the site much anymore.

[QUOTE=JustLonely;4071487]I assume any potential SB who doesn't have in her profile Platonic or not looking for sex, is going to be open for it. Assuming as well that you have game.

Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

I just got bitched out by a gal on SA who contacted me. Now, I'm very clear in my profile (without using language that will get me banned from SA) that I'm not looking for eye candy because my time to meet is limited. And we will have "private meetings" only.

So, this gal contacted me and we moved to text messaging for the particulars. BF is in prison (that's a red flag already), and she has 2 kids and supposedly a job. Told her my needs (draining of my balls on each visit. But, I used the term intimacy in bed when she and I chatted) and told her my gift, $150. She then started railing me "you say you are a SD but you really are not. What about my allowance monthly"?

Poor girl. Can't find a sucker to help pay her rent, send BF in prison money etc.

I did explain to her how it works. She buys into the idea of "free money" from SDs.

OH well.

GG.

[QUOTE=JustLonely;4071487]I assume any potential SB who doesn't have in her profile Platonic or not looking for sex, is going to be open for it. Assuming as well that you have game.

Thoughts?[/QUOTE]Ignore what they write.. all women are open to fucking, they like it as much as we do. Who they will do it with is what's up in the air.

Whether or not any given male will benefit from that comes down to varying combinations of game, timing, personal chemistry, spending habits, etc. I think one of the biggest mistakes guys new to the bowl make is approaching the lifestyle as a mongering transaction rather than simply another form of online dating, or more accurately a "caught in the middle" lifestyle that sort of fills in the grey area between civy dating on one side and mongering on the other (with some SDs leaning more one way or the other of course).

The girls who write "platonic", "absolutely no sex", etc. are usually just preemptively saving face in case someone they know sees them on the site.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;4073408]Ignore what they write.. all women are open to fucking, they like it as much as we do. Who they will do it with is what's up in the air.

Whether or not any given male will benefit from that comes down to varying combinations of game, timing, personal chemistry, spending habits, etc. I think one of the biggest mistakes guys new to the bowl make is approaching the lifestyle as a mongering transaction rather than simply another form of online dating, or more accurately a "caught in the middle" lifestyle that sort of fills in the grey area between civy dating on one side and mongering on the other (with some SDs leaning more one way or the other of course).

The girls who write "platonic", "absolutely no sex", etc. are usually just preemptively saving face in case someone they know sees them on the site.[/QUOTE]As usual these are "words of wisdom" coming from you and I agree 100%! I have learned a lot following your posts on this forum. Thank you sir!

[I]Safe mongering and sugaring![/I]

[QUOTE=JZLizard;4073408]Ignore what they write.. all women are open to fucking, they like it as much as we do. Who they will do it with is what's up in the air.

Whether or not any given male will benefit from that comes down to varying combinations of game, timing, personal chemistry, spending habits, etc. I think one of the biggest mistakes guys new to the bowl make is approaching the lifestyle as a mongering transaction rather than simply another form of online dating, or more accurately a "caught in the middle" lifestyle that sort of fills in the grey area between civy dating on one side and mongering on the other (with some SDs leaning more one way or the other of course).

The girls who write "platonic", "absolutely no sex", etc. are usually just preemptively saving face in case someone they know sees them on the site.[/QUOTE]Great advice here. I look at being a SD as nothing but a FWB situation where I chip in some additional help as things float. They've made the decision (consciously or subconsciously) to fuck, it's just up to you to figure out on what terms.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;4069794]There are a few tricks I've found that help maintain the balance through the "comfortable" times.
...
4. Don't bust your ass completely on every gym session. Get in the habit of finishing the workout in under an hour, and push yourself just hard enough that the workout itself is enjoyable. This in itself makes the workout itself become addictive, making you look forward to each workout. I've found never, ever to do "as much as I can", because the body does not gauge "too much" very well while it is warmed up during the workout. Injuries only set us back, so avoiding them at all cost is paramount, even if that means stopping the workout at 75%-80% of what you think you have left.
...
[/QUOTE]I can't overstress how on point JL is here. I used to go to the gym just about every day and maxed myself out for 1-1. 5 hours, to the point of depletion. This was 15 years ago. Then I took a vacation, came back a couple of weeks later and started on the same exact routine from day one, same weights, same number of reps, etc. , and ended up injuring my spine. I'm still paying for that mistake today.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;4073408]Ignore what they write.. all women are open to fucking, they like it as much as we do. Who they will do it with is what's up in the air.[/QUOTE]I can't tell you the number of 20 somethings who are quite happy to tell me they are comfortable getting naked with a man 2 x their age become men under 30 are clueless losers. USE THIS TO YOUR ADVANTAGE.

My usual patter goes along the lines of.

I first thought when an SB put in her profile she was looking for a "mentor" it meant she was OK with getting naked with a man 2 x their age. But I came to realize that dating can't be any fun when your choices are the soulful barista trying to find a more impactful use of his Humanities degrees or the video game addict who thinks going dutch on take out and firing up Netflix is a quality experience or the man-bunned software geek is always pouting because he isn't VP of Wonderfulness at [URL]StartUpApp.com[/URL] after 6 weeks on the job. Navigating adulthood is confusing and sometimes overwhelming and one little slip up -- like a fender bender or roommate late with rent -- can really set a gal back.

Most women. By the time they are 30 -- will have more than their share of drunken hook ups and regrettable relationships that leave you with little more than fodder to laugh at with your girlfriends -- at best -- and a pregnancy scare at worst. And you can only take so much of the selfish, human jack hammer routine that is sex with a clueless man / boy who has been programmed to ask permission for every kiss instead of taking the lead in life.

You have the rest of your life to fall in love and do all the predictable things -- may as well enjoy life while you can, experience some new things (both fancy dinners / shoes and getting tied up and fucked all night. But that needs not be said, their minds go there), so you can figure out what you enjoy and what you want out of life. And who better to help you navigate all this than someone who has seen and done a thing or two and doesn't have to worry about maxing out his credit card to take you to the nail salon.

10 minutes of messaging along those lines, and they will pretty much go from an introductory drink to drinking you load.

[QUOTE=JustLonely;4071487]I assume any potential SB who doesn't have in her profile Platonic or not looking for sex, is going to be open for it. Assuming as well that you have game.

Thoughts?[/QUOTE]Some good points on this topic. Things got muddied up a bit when SA went to just Seeking. Too many I have run across now are thinking this more as a dating site and less of SD / SB. I make it clear that I am are looking for an intimate arrangement with the right person before we have any M&G. My preferred M&G now is a quick coffee after I get off work on the way home. I have found I get a quicker yes to that than taking them to dinner as it is a spontaneous meeting without any pressure for more that a dinner can invoke. Cheaper on me too!

[QUOTE=JZLizard;4073408]Ignore what they write.. all women are open to fucking, they like it as much as we do. Who they will do it with is what's up in the air.

Whether or not any given male will benefit from that comes down to varying combinations of game, timing, personal chemistry, spending habits, etc. I think one of the biggest mistakes guys new to the bowl make is approaching the lifestyle as a mongering transaction rather than simply another form of online dating, or more accurately a "caught in the middle" lifestyle that sort of fills in the grey area between civy dating on one side and mongering on the other (with some SDs leaning more one way or the other of course).

The girls who write "platonic", "absolutely no sex", etc. are usually just preemptively saving face in case someone they know sees them on the site.[/QUOTE]For those that state "platonic" I tend to press the issue shortly after moving to text. I usually tell them I'm going to grab a nap and napping is better when done together, or better after being "tucked" in appropriately. Or I tell them I'm jumping in the shower and I could use a hand for those hard to reach areas. Those that are truly platonic (truly virgins) will let you know quickly that they are not comfortable with such talk. I let them go before wasting anymore time or money. Those that are pros, semi-pros, or UTR (none of which I am looking for) will be quick to send pics and talk price, and I let them go. Those that are in it for what I am looking for (young energetic girl looking for adventure and maturity that she can't get on L / are swipe apps) will respond with "ummmm" or "I like the way you think" or "that sounds fun" or "I think we are going to hit it off and I look forward to joining you eventually. ".