"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=Assaholic;3937113]I hosted plenty of times at my own place and never gave it a second thought. Things are very different today... What does give me concern is if I bring home some chick, SB or civvie, the next day (or ten years later, a-la Weinstein saga), she could claim I did something I didn't. With our screwed up legal system, my understanding is that everything she says is taken as solid fact, and it's up to me to prove she's lying. If I take her to a motel, I don't think I should be as concerned, because if she's coming up to my motel room, it would difficult for her to claim she had no intention of spreading the legs, but then again you never know.[/QUOTE]I've been on a bit of a break from the SB scene lately, but I, too, don't have an SO to worry about at home. I've tended to meet POTS out for coffee and a bit of conversation and if I get a feeling they're on the up and up, I've invited them back to mine. So far I've been a good judge of character that way, and everything's worked out.

On the handful of times I've felt a little iffy about someone, I've plopped my cell phone down on the dresser, set the audio recorder and then discreetly toss a pair of boxers over the phone. The dresser turns the phone into a great boundary mic, and everything is recorded quite clearly. After the date, I move the audio on the phone over to an encrypted hard drive for safe keeping. I live in a one-party consent state for in-person conversations, but even if that were not the case if the shit hit the fan I'd rather have a recording charge on my record than a sexual assault or rape charge.

For all those of you that like give money away without playtime.

[QUOTE=BlueDrive;3935333]Hello Mongers, any info good or bad with this one? I thought I remembered a post a while back but can't seem to come across it.

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/8ea867d2-b878-4966-b7cb-66b38777f00a[/URL][/QUOTE]I saw her this last week, Pics are retouched, she is much older looking in real life. Constantly runs late, so don't plan if you are on a time schedule. Good time, not much on oral, but a good time, I might repeat, not sure. She was happy with gift.

[QUOTE=Assaholic;3937113]I would like to know the answer to this too. 15 years ago when Craigslist was hopping, I hosted plenty of times at my own place and never gave it a second thought. Things are very different today. I don't have an SO either, so that's not a concern. What does give me concern is if I bring home some chick, SB or civvie, the next day (or ten years later, a-la Weinstein saga), she could claim I did something I didn't. With our screwed up legal system, my understanding is that everything she says is taken as solid fact, and it's up to me to prove she's lying. If I take her to a motel, I don't think I should be as concerned, because if she's coming up to my motel room, it would difficult for her to claim she had no intention of spreading the legs, but then again you never know.[/QUOTE]As far as Weinstein, Cosby and similar -- there are two elements present in those cases that I doubt the typical SD needs to worry about. One is that the target of the witch-hunt was well-known and (previously) respected in the entertainment industry, and the other is that the sex related accusations resulted from abuse of power in professional situations (casting couch, "do you want this job or not', and so on). Both elements are critical; the male victim in these scenarios must be prominent enough such that the media has a strong motivation to publish stories that fuel the fire (or else the fire won't burn hot enough to spread), and the presence of career-pressure is crucial because it allows the female to position the story such that they never had the choice, and that the legal definition of sexual harassment is present. It also helps tremendously if the female in question is an aging celebrity with a career on the decline, because it brings attention her way (and an insatiable craving for attention is the only reason people go into show-business in the first place) and helps provide her a new career (campaigning as champion for a cause).

So, unless you're a well-known celebrity and are banging young girls that you have some professional involvement with, I wouldn't worry about random claims of the Weinstein type.

Pregnancy is one of the biggest (and costliest) risks that I think most SDs face, and of course there are ways around that. Since I don't like condoms have not had a vasectomy, and do sometimes cum inside them, my primary defense against this risk is to guard my anonymity as much as possible.

My gf lives with me, so bringing SBs to my home is not an option. If she did not, I would probably have various girls over multiple nights in any given week, but if they know where I live, I would no longer take the risk of unloading inside them, it would go in their mouth or I would just pull out and spray them.

My other tactic (which is controversial) is to quickly and move onto the next, never spending too much time with one. I usually cut out of the situation with some sort of short-term family emergency story or similar, then if they keep trying to stay in touch I just tell them I'm now involved with someone else. Sometimes I get a text from them 2-6 months after having cut them loose, where they will say they would just like to see me again, clarifying that no sugar or help is expected; sometimes it's very tempting, but I also wonder if there is more to the request -- perhaps they want another date so they can try to gather more info about my identity, etc? So I never take them up on that offer even if I would like to bang them again.

[QUOTE=Kwagmire;3937300]I've been on a bit of a break from the SB scene lately, but I, too, don't have an SO to worry about at home. I've tended to meet POTS out for coffee and a bit of conversation and if I get a feeling they're on the up and up, I've invited them back to mine. So far I've been a good judge of character that way, and everything's worked out.

On the handful of times I've felt a little iffy about someone, I've plopped my cell phone down on the dresser, set the audio recorder and then discreetly toss a pair of boxers over the phone. The dresser turns the phone into a great boundary mic, and everything is recorded quite clearly. After the date, I move the audio on the phone over to an encrypted hard drive for safe keeping. I live in a one-party consent state for in-person conversations, but even if that were not the case if the shit hit the fan I'd rather have a recording charge on my record than a sexual assault or rape charge.[/QUOTE]One thing I do is take screenshots of their profile and save all photos. If the shit really hit the fan, if nothing else, having proof that she is embarking on meeting wealthy older men would allow one to play the "gold-digger" card, which would give the SD an advantage in any sort of legal squabble.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3937800]

Pregnancy is one of the biggest (and costliest) risks that I think most SDs face, and of course there are ways around that. [b]Since I don't like condoms have not had a vasectomy, and do sometimes cum inside them, my primary defense against this risk is to guard my anonymity as much as possible.[/b]
[/QUOTE]My bold on your comments for emphasis. I've seen a lot of guys say this. Question for the group: If you were [B]reasonably sure[/B] that you had impregnated a girl and she's going to carry to term, would you be OK with just ducking out knowing you had a kid out there that probably didn't have the sort of opportunities you could provide? I mean, I get it's not ideal, but would you feel any responsibility for your offspring?

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3937800]As far as Weinstein, Cosby and similar -- there are two elements present in those cases that I doubt the typical SD needs to worry about. One is that the target of the witch-hunt was well-known and (previously) respected in the entertainment industry, and the other is that the sex related accusations resulted from abuse of power in professional situations (casting couch, "do you want this job or not', and so on). Both elements are critical; the male victim in these scenarios must be prominent enough such that the media has a strong motivation to publish stories that fuel the fire (or else the fire won't burn hot enough to spread), and the presence of career-pressure is crucial because it allows the female to position the story such that they never had the choice, and that the legal definition of sexual harassment is present. It also helps tremendously if the female in question is an aging celebrity with a career on the decline, because it brings attention her way (and an insatiable craving for attention is the only reason people go into show-business in the first place) and helps provide her a new career (campaigning as champion for a cause).

So, unless you're a well-known celebrity and are banging young girls that you have some professional involvement with, I wouldn't worry about random claims of the Weinstein type.

Pregnancy is one of the biggest (and costliest) risks that I think most SDs face, and of course there are ways around that. Since I don't like condoms have not had a vasectomy, and do sometimes cum inside them, my primary defense against this risk is to guard my anonymity as much as possible.

My gf lives with me, so bringing SBs to my home is not an option. If she did not, I would probably have various girls over multiple nights in any given week, but if they know where I live, I would no longer take the risk of unloading inside them, it would go in their mouth or I would just pull out and spray them.

My other tactic (which is controversial) is to quickly and move onto the next, never spending too much time with one. I usually cut out of the situation with some sort of short-term family emergency story or similar, then if they keep trying to stay in touch I just tell them I'm now involved with someone else. Sometimes I get a text from them 2-6 months after having cut them loose, where they will say they would just like to see me again, clarifying that no sugar or help is expected; sometimes it's very tempting, but I also wonder if there is more to the request -- perhaps they want another date so they can try to gather more info about my identity, etc? So I never take them up on that offer even if I would like to bang them again.[/QUOTE]JL, I have tremendous respect for all your input and well-thought-out and well-written responses, but in this particular case, I may have to disagree.

1. Consider this hypothetical scenario: Two or more SBs, one of them pregnant, all coincidentally having hired the same lawyer, all come up with more or less the same story saying you made promises of finding a job or promised to hire them or otherwise help them with their, I don't know, pet sitting career, yourself or through friends. Then "lured" them into your love shack to discuss their "career", and before they knew it, you were on top pounding away. Not likely? Think again my friend. You get a female judge and an overzealous prosecutor and I think your case is sealed, whether you work in show business or not, especially if you have deep pockets. I don't know about you guys, but I personally never discuss $ or specifics over text or on a website or anything with an audit trail, because that can lead to other problems (solicitation, pandering, trafficking, FOSTA). I only discuss things in person. So this could easily turn into a "he said, she said" argument, except now there is your word against three.

I haven't yet pulled the trigger as far as self hosting, but before I do, I think I will take your advice and invest in a nanny cam. A couple actually. I'm not sure if that's 100% legal, but I would rather have it and not need it than not have it. And it looks like I will have to keep the recordings for many years. Crap!

2. The pull out method doesn't always work, from what I've heard and read. I have unloaded inside a few times when the girl said "don't worry, I'm on the pill" or "I have an IUD", but I'm still worried. I really, really don't want any junior assaholics out there crawling around on the rugs in someone's dilapidated ghetto apartment, but the temptation is sometimes so great that I just say ah fuck it, just this one time. So far I've been lucky, but I am fully aware that I'm walking on thin ice here.

I also believe one should not put too much faith in one's ability to remain completely anonymous. Case in point. As I've mentioned before, unlike most of you guys here, I never got much traction on SA, so I've branched out to alternative methods for finding SBs. Just the other day I got a match with a 20 year old on Tinder and she sends me a one-word message. That word was my real name. I have a rare name, so no way this was a coincidence. I replied, without confirming or denying that she was on the right track, but she ghosted me. WTF just happened? She did not look familiar to me at all. Took a screen shot, did an image search, did a FB search, IG search. Nothing came up. Now keep in mind that I'm in IT and security is in my DNA. My phone is a pay-as-you-go burner registered under a phony (NPI) name, phony address, paid with cash, Burner app loaded, the works. Google, Facebook, IG, GMail, Tinder, Bumble, all are under pseudonyms with zero ties to my real identity. My FB and Tinder profiles do have a real, but old picture of me with sunglasses, used nowhere else and it comes up empty under Tineye and Google Images. I do all my mongering activity on a separate, dedicated virtual computer which is used for nothing else and I never monger on my real PC or phone. Now you tell me, how in the F did this supposed bimbo figure out my real name? Thankfully, I'm single and self-employed, don't have deep pockets, and have no worries at all if I'm "exposed", but this incident gave me a real wake up call as to how un-anonymous we really are.

The Provocateur [URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/aa8821d9-de5d-4e4a-bd40-010a3153e395[/URL].

Been messaging because she kept messaging me so I decided, what the hell, let's see what she is about. I figured she is so full of herself, probably not having a lot of luck and probably wants some like the rest of us. So was going to meet this week, till she of course says my allowance is way too low and she usually gets $1000-$5000 per visit! Well that was a quick bye, but really. She acts like she is so successful, doesn't need the money, and wants an arrangement based on chemistry and respect. Sounds to me like it's about the money. Oh well, kind of figured it was going to go that way.

On this one, anyone. [URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/01d1bc78-088e-4fce-8ee4-18ceafac6f68[/URL].

[QUOTE=RogerOver;3937896]My bold on your comments for emphasis. I've seen a lot of guys say this. Question for the group: If you were [B]reasonably sure[/B] that you had impregnated a girl and she's going to carry to term, would you be OK with just ducking out knowing you had a kid out there that probably didn't have the sort of opportunities you could provide? I mean, I get it's not ideal, but would you feel any responsibility for your offspring?[/QUOTE]This conversation brings to mind a hilarious episode of "Two and a Half Men" where Charlie Sheen sees an SB from his past with a kid, whose age coincides with the last encounter Charlie had with her. The kid looks like a 10 year old spitting image of himself, and after the encounter Charlie eventually contacts her and asks about the child. She basically says "what do you care? You just disappeared". He concludes the child is his, and out of guilt and concern for the child's well-being, he insists on sending her a healthy child support check once a month, with the promise to never contact her again or intervene with the child's life, other than the sending of the payment. She thanks him and gives a show of respect that he took responsibility for the child. As soon as he leaves, the actual mother of the child shows up to retrieve him. Turns out the SB was really just the kids babysitter. LOL.

Didn't mean to veer too far from the question.

Yes it would bother me somewhat to know a specific girl was having or had my child without my prior knowledge or ability to participate in the decision whether or not the child should be born in the first place. But there lies the problem, as the man, we do not have that right -- once the egg is fertilized, the decision becomes solely the womans, and that imbalance of power is what makes it perfectly acceptable, in my mind, to fuck and run. I came to terms with this imbalance of power a long time ago. Because the decision of what to do is exclusively female, I believe the female also bears total responsibility for unwanted pregnancy in the first place, either preventing it via birth control, or doing whatever they feel needs to be done if they do get pregnant (plan B, abortion whatever). Or, if they want to raise the child, then raise the child.

I can say this -- almost every single SB I've ever known has daddy issues, a huge portion of them suffer from absent daddy syndrome from having been raised by a single mom. So, if some of my former SBs made the choice to be single moms and raise future sugar babies, wouldn't it be hypocritical of me to say that this is wrong? It's almost like I'm supporting my own habit by having unprotected sex and not sticking around long enough to worry about the consequences. Creating more single moms means more future sugar babies.. but yes I would be creeped out if I found out that one of my SBs was actually the offspring of one of my former SBs, especially if she looked a little like me.

Besides, even when they tell me they don't want money, I still gift them enough that it would at least likely pay for a significant portion of abortion costs. It's their choice what to spend the gift on, just at it is their choice whether to have the baby at all.

I should also say that I prefer not to cum inside them, my preference is in the mouth or a cum bath all over their face and body. However some of them want it inside, or some of them don't have the skill to get me off any other way.

[QUOTE=Assaholic;3938482]JL, I have tremendous respect for all your input and well-thought-out and well-written responses, but in this particular case, I may have to disagree.

1. Consider this hypothetical scenario: Two or more SBs, one of them pregnant, all coincidentally having hired the same lawyer, all come up with more or less the same story saying you made promises of finding a job or promised to hire them or otherwise help them with their, I don't know, pet sitting career, yourself or through friends. Then "lured" them into your love shack to discuss their "career", and before they knew it, you were on top pounding away. Not likely? Think again my friend. You get a female judge and an overzealous prosecutor and I think your case is sealed, whether you work in show business or not, especially if you have deep pockets. I don't know about you guys, but I personally never discuss $ or specifics over text or on a website or anything with an audit trail, because that can lead to other problems (solicitation, pandering, trafficking, FOSTA). I only discuss things in person. So this could easily turn into a "he said, she said" argument, except now there is your word against three.

I haven't yet pulled the trigger as far as self hosting, but before I do, I think I will take your advice and invest in a nanny cam. A couple actually. I'm not sure if that's 100% legal, but I would rather have it and not need it than not have it. And it looks like I will have to keep the recordings for many years. Crap!

2. The pull out method doesn't always work, from what I've heard and read. I have unloaded inside a few times when the girl said "don't worry, I'm on the pill" or "I have an IUD", but I'm still worried. I really, really don't want any junior assaholics out there crawling around on the rugs in someone's dilapidated ghetto apartment, but the temptation is sometimes so great that I just say ah fuck it, just this one time. So far I've been lucky, but I am fully aware that I'm walking on thin ice here.

I also believe one should not put too much faith in one's ability to remain completely anonymous. Case in point. As I've mentioned before, unlike most of you guys here, I never got much traction on SA, so I've branched out to alternative methods for finding SBs. Just the other day I got a match with a 20 year old on Tinder and she sends me a one-word message. That word was my real name. I have a rare name, so no way this was a coincidence. I replied, without confirming or denying that she was on the right track, but she ghosted me. WTF just happened? She did not look familiar to me at all. Took a screen shot, did an image search, did a FB search, IG search. Nothing came up. Now keep in mind that I'm in IT and security is in my DNA. My phone is a pay-as-you-go burner registered under a phony (NPI) name, phony address, paid with cash, Burner app loaded, the works. Google, Facebook, IG, GMail, Tinder, Bumble, all are under pseudonyms with zero ties to my real identity. My FB and Tinder profiles do have a real, but old picture of me with sunglasses, used nowhere else and it comes up empty under Tineye and Google Images. I do all my mongering activity on a separate, dedicated virtual computer which is used for nothing else and I never monger on my real PC or phone. Now you tell me, how in the F did this supposed bimbo figure out my real name? Thankfully, I'm single and self-employed, don't have deep pockets, and have no worries at all if I'm "exposed", but this incident gave me a real wake up call as to how un-anonymous we really are.[/QUOTE]It's all good, life would be boring if everyone agreed with me. The thing is, I have just brought too many girls back to my place during my dating time -- girls who would have loved the financial security of having a long-term relationship with me -- to be concerned with the scenario you've described. Dating is dating and single men do bring girls back to their place to seduce them, and it's been that way since the beginning of time.

What I've found is that "game" is not just the art of getting a woman to spread their legs for you. Game is just a social skill of handling women -- everything from the pickup to the breakup. As long as you do that skillfully, most of the time you won't have vengeful nut jobs trying to chase you down in court. Paternity -- yes, that is another issue and yes it's true pulling out doesn't always work, but the only time I'm aware of that I did get a girl pregnant, it was when I had cum inside on multiple occasions. Never to my knowledge, even in long-term relationships, has anyone gotten pregnant by me when I pulled out. And, all of my former girls know how to reach me by phone, so I'm guessing I would know about it if it ever happened. They usually continue to ask if I want to see them for some period of time, and slowly over time I come up with a story like I've found the one I want to marry and that usually sends them packing. Remember these girls are smoking hot and have guys chasing them constantly, they are not going to sit around and just continue to brood because a middle aged guy doesn't want to see them anymore, they have plenty of options and the next distraction will be along to catch her interest in no time.

Bottom line is, dating is what it is and going back to the guys place is part of the ritual. For them to say you offered them a job or whatever, well they would need some proof so hopefully no SDs are actually doing that (if they do they are taking on unnecessary risk). There was a guy a while back who was luring would-be SBs in with help-wanted ads for various non-sexual jobs, and I remember writing about what a bad idea I thought that was. Once professional rank enters the equation, it gets dangerous due to sexual harassment laws.

If concerned about pregnancy and STDs, get a vasectomy and some condoms, or just don't stay with one for too long. The longer you are with her, the higher the chances of something taking a turn for the worst.

I'm just saying that it's not a crime to bang a girl a few times then move on to another one, and if they want to go to the court stating they were the victim of a pickup artist, and cannot provide solid evidence they were victimized, I don't think any judge (female or otherwise) is likely to take them seriously.

She has been discussed several times before and used to go by "The Baroness". Crazy GPS that is really hard to understand. She has been doing the same stupid stuff for years, claims to be a keynote speaker at the Sugar Baby forum and all.

She is well below the quality of any of my past SB and an order of magnitude more expensive.

Run far, run fast!

[QUOTE=BStreet;3938510]The Provocateur [URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/aa8821d9-de5d-4e4a-bd40-010a3153e395[/URL].

Been messaging because she kept messaging me so I decided, what the hell, let's see what she is about. I figured she is so full of herself, probably not having a lot of luck and probably wants some like the rest of us. So was going to meet this week, till she of course says my allowance is way too low and she usually gets $1000-$5000 per visit! Well that was a quick bye, but really. She acts like she is so successful, doesn't need the money, and wants an arrangement based on chemistry and respect. Sounds to me like it's about the money. Oh well, kind of figured it was going to go that way.[/QUOTE]

Hey brothers. I also posted this in the Atlanta thread, but curious to hear your thoughts as well.

Let me be clear. There are plenty of gems still on the site, but the amount of time I have invested this go round weeding out flakes and scammers has been insane. By now most veterans know the rules to spot the spammers and old BP pros (talk of time limits, in town for only one night, send me money before meeting, can you cover my gas money, my mother is having a major surgery, blah blah).

But what are some other methods you guys are using to weed out the flakes and scammers?

For me. I have started to ignore females with only one picture on their profile! Sure I might be missing out on some goodies. But what woman you know is comfortable with just ONE pic of themselves. On a dating app with plenty of competition? My experience has been. Mostly. That these one-picture girls have one foot in and one foot out. Not really seeking anything quickly and prefer a lot of back and forth dialogue over 5-6 days.

Be safe. Ripper.

[QUOTE=Ripvan12;3939219]Hey brothers. I also posted this in the Atlanta thread, but curious to hear your thoughts as well.

Let me be clear. There are plenty of gems still on the site, but the amount of time I have invested this go round weeding out flakes and scammers has been insane. By now most veterans know the rules to spot the spammers and old BP pros (talk of time limits, in town for only one night, send me money before meeting, can you cover my gas money, my mother is having a major surgery, blah blah).

But what are some other methods you guys are using to weed out the flakes and scammers?

For me. I have started to ignore females with only one picture on their profile! Sure I might be missing out on some goodies. But what woman you know is comfortable with just ONE pic of themselves. On a dating app with plenty of competition? My experience has been. Mostly. That these one-picture girls have one foot in and one foot out. Not really seeking anything quickly and prefer a lot of back and forth dialogue over 5-6 days.

Be safe. Ripper.[/QUOTE]I've been catfished a few times, stood up for dates. Now I insist on a quick voice verification before I talk about specifics. I've never had a problem with the real girls taking the time to talk to me.

[QUOTE=TheMarto1;3937356]For all those of you that like give money away without playtime.[/QUOTE]Well I guess you got to give her credit at least she's honest!! Probably won't be many takers but there's always a sucker around the corner!!