Massage Parlor Reports

Last time I went to Panacea, I was told that BEFORE the session even started, they expected to see a tip on the counter. She came in, said, "Oh, there's no tip on the counter. So you just want a plain massage!" It wasn't a question. It was a statement. I told her, no I would like to get the same service I always got from Natasha or Aliese. She told me that all the girls expect the tip to be out first so they know what to do without being too 'forward'.

Well that was bullshit. I figure there is no way I am going to tip someone that I have never dealt with before without knowing what I would get. I decided that I would explore other options instead.

Is this really their policy? I certainly would do that for Natasha, but no one else.

[QUOTE=Shawtren;2848575]Last time I went to Panacea, I was told that BEFORE the session even started, they expected to see a tip on the counter. She came in, said, "Oh, there's no tip on the counter. So you just want a plain massage!" It wasn't a question. It was a statement. I told her, no I would like to get the same service I always got from Natasha or Aliese. She told me that all the girls expect the tip to be out first so they know what to do without being too 'forward'.

Well that was bullshit. I figure there is no way I am going to tip someone that I have never dealt with before without knowing what I would get. I decided that I would explore other options instead.

Is this really their policy? I certainly would do that for Natasha, but no one else.[/QUOTE]Yep. I was told that at the reception desk before even getting to a room. I hate that place. And, the no-shower situation is ridiculous for a place that dumps a gallon of oil on you. There's much better options elsewhere.

[QUOTE=Shawtren;2848575]Last time I went to Panacea, I was told that BEFORE the session even started, they expected to see a tip on the counter. She came in, said, "Oh, there's no tip on the counter. So you just want a plain massage!" It wasn't a question. It was a statement. I told her, no I would like to get the same service I always got from Natasha or Aliese. She told me that all the girls expect the tip to be out first so they know what to do without being too 'forward'.

Well that was bullshit. I figure there is no way I am going to tip someone that I have never dealt with before without knowing what I would get. I decided that I would explore other options instead.

Is this really their policy? I certainly would do that for Natasha, but no one else.[/QUOTE]Been in twice recently. Peyton didn't mention tip at all, but Nikki wanted up front.

[QUOTE=Shawtren;2848575]Last time I went to Panacea, I was told that BEFORE the session even started, they expected to see a tip on the counter. She came in, said, "Oh, there's no tip on the counter. So you just want a plain massage!" It wasn't a question. It was a statement. I told her, no I would like to get the same service I always got from Natasha or Aliese. She told me that all the girls expect the tip to be out first so they know what to do without being too 'forward'.

Well that was bullshit. I figure there is no way I am going to tip someone that I have never dealt with before without knowing what I would get. I decided that I would explore other options instead.

Is this really their policy? I certainly would do that for Natasha, but no one else.[/QUOTE]They just started that a couple months ago. Too many guys were stiffing them with no tip at all. This seems to work well for me, cause the girls now get comfortable right from the start.

[QUOTE=Shawtren;2848575]Last time I went to Panacea, I was told that BEFORE the session even started, they expected to see a tip on the counter. She came in, said, "Oh, there's no tip on the counter. So you just want a plain massage!" It wasn't a question. It was a statement. I told her, no I would like to get the same service I always got from Natasha or Aliese. She told me that all the girls expect the tip to be out first so they know what to do without being too 'forward'.

Well that was bullshit. I figure there is no way I am going to tip someone that I have never dealt with before without knowing what I would get. I decided that I would explore other options instead.

Is this really their policy? I certainly would do that for Natasha, but no one else.[/QUOTE]I agree that is BS. Technically, a "tip" is supposed to be for service above what is normal or expected. When providers pull that on me, I tell them that I always tip at the end. Allmost all of them come around and give at least a half hearted HJ / HE. The few times they have not, I did not tip (I believe in not rewarding bad bahavior). If they give it any thought, if they don't give service, they are working the hour for only what the cut from the house is. With the right ending, they make $40 + for less than five minutes of their time. That, it seems, should be a no-brainer.

[QUOTE=MrCruzer;2848628]I agree that is BS. Technically, a "tip" is supposed to be for service above what is normal or expected. When providers pull that on me, I tell them that I always tip at the end. Allmost all of them come around and give at least a half hearted HJ / HE. The few times they have not, I did not tip (I believe in not rewarding bad bahavior). If they give it any thought, if they don't give service, they are working the hour for only what the cut from the house is. With the right ending, they make $40 + for less than five minutes of their time. That, it seems, should be a no-brainer.[/QUOTE]The way I see it, it's just one more muscle for them to massage, if it's only a HJ then what's the big deal?

I propose that we all go into Panacea, give them the house fee for their time , offer 20 for a HJ if they say no, proceed with self sevice. LOL. That will fix their attitudes. It's just a frikking HJ and most of them are mechanical anyway. So you're not missing much.

The new place on 28th near Petros wanted 60 I said 20 and she said 40 I said just give me my massage for the hour and I am good with that, if you want 20 then finish with the HJ. She took the 20. It's your money. Panacea girls can starve with that attitude or offer the full time plus a reasonable tip for a job well done massaging all my muscles.
If you want a massage by a naked girl with a bj call any escort. She will be cheaper than any girl at Panacea

[QUOTE=Benz1;2849027]The way I see it, it's just one more muscle for them to massage, if it's only a HJ then what's the big deal?

I propose that we all go into Panacea, give them the house fee for their time , offer 20 for a HJ if they say no, proceed with self sevice. LOL. That will fix their attitudes. It's just a frikking HJ and most of them are mechanical anyway. So you're not missing much.

The new place on 28th near Petros wanted 60 I said 20 and she said 40 I said just give me my massage for the hour and I am good with that, if you want 20 then finish with the HJ. She took the 20. It's your money. Panacea girls can starve with that attitude or offer the full time plus a reasonable tip for a job well done massaging all my muscles.
If you want a massage by a naked girl with a bj call any escort. She will be cheaper than any girl at Panacea[/QUOTE]You've really had trouble getting a good HE for $20 at Panacea? I have had consistently great experiences just tipping $40, so I never really considered that I should be saving the little bit of dough. But I guess I'd be curious to hear if people are having problems at the $20 level.

And why would anyone expect a BJ there? There have been so many monger reports confirming that they are HE only. Isn't that why we share info here; so we know what we can expect. So why do we have a problem with their consistent service?

If you are looking for a bottom dollar BJ, I agree that you should see an escort and not go to a massage parlor, and certainly not a parlor that is known to offer only HE fun and nothing more. The escort will be consistently cheaper. But maybe you should just pick up a street walker.

[QUOTE=Tom70;2849441]You've really had trouble getting a good HE for $20 at Panacea? I have had consistently great experiences just tipping $40, so I never really considered that I should be saving the little bit of dough. But I guess I'd be curious to hear if people are having problems at the $20 level.

And why would anyone expect a BJ there? There have been so many monger reports confirming that they are HE only. Isn't that why we share info here; so we know what we can expect. So why do we have a problem with their consistent service?

If you are looking for a bottom dollar BJ, I agree that you should see an escort and not go to a massage parlor, and certainly not a parlor that is known to offer only HE fun and nothing more. The escort will be consistently cheaper. But maybe you should just pick up a street walker.[/QUOTE]Yes, that is the new policy and I was told that the ladies expect the tip to match the massage now, so $60 for an hour. This was with Alison and I wasn't that impressed. I told her I only brought an extra $40 with me so she took that, but things are definitely going downhill at Panacea. Also, the ladies on the couch work days only, so they'll be out the door by 3:00 pm. What has happened to the massage scene in GR?

[QUOTE=Oddjob;2849697]Yes, that is the new policy and I was told that the ladies expect the tip to match the massage now, so $60 for an hour. This was with Alison and I wasn't that impressed. I told her I only brought an extra $40 with me so she took that, but things are definitely going downhill at Panacea. Also, the ladies on the couch work days only, so they'll be out the door by 3:00 pm. What has happened to the massage scene in GR?[/QUOTE]What happened to the massage scene in GR? Over tipping for poor service, if they short you on time and the monger still tips for a poor massage they will always be rushing to the Happy Ending. If you will pay anyway and it's all about the ending then why not go to an escort. If you bring the oil to well reviewed escort, she will be happy to rub and tug you, fully naked plenty of roaming bbbjcim and CFS. All for less than a Panacea date.

If you whip out your tip too early at a MP they will grab it and go. Your fun is done because you did it their way.

[QUOTE=Benz1;2849856]What happened to the massage scene in GR? Over tipping for poor service, if they short you on time and the monger still tips for a poor massage they will always be rushing to the Happy Ending. If you will pay anyway and it's all about the ending then why not go to an escort. If you bring the oil to well reviewed escort, she will be happy to rub and tug you, fully naked plenty of roaming bbbjcim and CFS. All for less than a Panacea date.

If you whip out your tip too early at a MP they will grab it and go. Your fun is done because you did it their way.[/QUOTE]You are so right Benz! Mongers remember, WE are in control. Don't let them turn it around!!

[QUOTE=Oddjob;2849697]Yes, that is the new policy and I was told that the ladies expect the tip to match the massage now, so $60 for an hour. What has happened to the massage scene in GR?[/QUOTE]What happened was too many wimpy mongers repeatedly overpaying for crappy service! These are the same guys who tip at restaurants no matter how crappy the service is, unless the server is a dude, then they might complain. But if the server is a chic, not a peep! I'm going to setup a used car lot catering to these knuckleheads. All women sales staff.

Monger / Customer: "how much is this car Sally?

Sally the Seller: "it stickers at 20,000 but for you I'll let it go for 21,000!

Monger / Customer: "I'll take it Sally".

With as many massage parlors as there are in GR, why not stop going to Panacea if they adopt this policy? There are lots of places where the MTs are happy to receive the tip they do. I doubt Panacea did this because too many mongers were not tipping, if that's the case those men can be banned as other places do.

Saw Torie recently and had a very enjoyable hour. She is 40's, light skinned AA, maybe with some Asian or Pac Island. Nice face, thick, but no where near bbw, natural cee / dee cups. Said she worked at Wonder for a while, but was not given enough work, so decided to work for herself.

She has her own studio in a small office building in vicinity of Kalamazoo and 36th SE and works generally 9 am to 5 pm. It is pleasantly decorated and clean. No shower; toilet is shared with other building tenants. Dental office's electric box is in her suite and they sometimes need to reset the breakers, she said, but massage room is separately locked and she has never had a problem with them. Lives fairly close by so can meet you there within 15 minutes of your call. Lots of parking, back end of lot is reasonably private from the street and a back entrance is available, but she may have to open it for you.

Typical 60 hr /40 hh. I did hour and got a reasonably good massage with a LOT of time on the glutes and vicinity. A little lifting of my hips and she slipped a hand underneath with no verbal request or questions. After about 20 minutes asked if I wanted to roll over.

I did and off came the top then "You do tip, don't you?" "Yes" and off came the rest. Other than requesting the 60 up front (it stayed in view the whole appointment), that was the extent of discussion of money. Another 10 minutes and asked if I wanted to massage her. About 10 minutes of that and back to me on the table and an excellent HE. Some clean up then massage until the hour was up.

Torie was mature, easy to talk with (no complaining or woe is me talk), fully nude with roaming, above average massage, excellent HE, and gave the whole hour. While I was getting dressed, she sprayed the table and put on a clean sheet. Gave her a well-deserved tip of 40 and plan on returning soon. Unless you need young, thin, or evenings, give Torie a try. None of the hassle, negotiating, GPS, or shorting on time all too often encountered at a MP.

Willinknever as they are usually gone. Search Torie or Studio 125 or 40 on BP.

[QUOTE=NoseJelly;2850018]What happened was too many wimpy mongers repeatedly overpaying for crappy service! These are the same guys who tip at restaurants no matter how crappy the service is, unless the server is a dude, then they might complain. But if the server is a chic, not a peep! I'm going to setup a used car lot catering to these knuckleheads. All women sales staff.

Monger / Customer: "how much is this car Sally?

Sally the Seller: "it stickers at 20,000 but for you I'll let it go for 21,000!

Monger / Customer: "I'll take it Sally".[/QUOTE]You do not understand why there is tipping in the food service industry. It is because they are serving you food, which you consume. Hence you bribe them not to mess with your food. And if you do not tip them, just like mongers and elephants, servers never forget. If you think you are tipping for service, you are truly naive.

[QUOTE=Tom70;2850450]You do not understand why there is tipping in the food service industry. It is because they are serving you food, which you consume. Hence you bribe them not to mess with your food. And if you do not tip them, just like mongers and elephants, servers never forget. If you think you are tipping for service, you are truly naive.[/QUOTE]I think that's an ingredient in the dish, but not the actual reason. Waiters are paid below minimum wage due to expected tipping. In large parties, a gratuity of 20% will be added on automatically. 20% isn't a tip (or 15% if you're a senior; will not be liked so much, but understood by most). It, 20%, is for "par" service and not really a tip -- but more like the added expected fee for service, as opposed to take out.

- Bad service brings it from 20% to 15%.

- Really bad service that ya rarely see and is solely on the weight of the waiter, and with a bad attitude, it goes down to 10%.

- Jaw-dropping WTF that would make any non-picky person not go there again, is around 0%.

The actual "tipping" in restaurants is when you go over 20%. The 20% by itself is expected-gratuity.

For massage parlors, it's not a commonly understood industry. 40/20, 60/40 is the expected price+"par" gratuity (which includes a mechanical, clothed HE). Anything more than that is the true "tip".

- 40/40 can easily be had if it was a good half hour going the Whole half hour w / HE and no rush.

- Other tips, like 60/60 or 40/50 or 40/60 or 60/80 is how much more they go beyond just a mechanical, fully clothed HE.

I agree that some people who tip as if they're getting a BBBJCIM when all they're getting is a mechanical fully clothed HE by a gal who's merely kinda cute for her age -- has made the parlors more GPS on their expectations, thus prices. I can understand willing to pay more than for an escort, because at a parlor you run no risk of LE, pimps, dungeons in grandma's basement to enter, etc. But one shouldn't be overpaying parlors, because it's unnecessary + ends up not being good for the industry in the long run, when they think they can get that out of everyone else and extra GPS sets in.

[QUOTE=Tom70;2850450]You do not understand why there is tipping in the food service industry. It is because they are serving you food, which you consume. Hence you bribe them not to mess with your food. And if you do not tip them, just like mongers and elephants, servers never forget. If you think you are tipping for service, you are truly naive.[/QUOTE]Oh Snap! You busted me. I'm naive. Next thing you know, I'll be stating naiveties about the house getting 100% of the door fee. I'll try to cut back on using metaphors, since I am unable to make a point that's up to your standards. I'd like to apologize to the entire USA Monger community for wasting bandwidth. I didn't realize until just now that I don't know shit.

Please don't read any of my previous or future posts guys! Thank you.

NJ.

[QUOTE=NoseJelly;2850722]Oh Snap! You busted me. I'm naive. Next thing you know, I'll be stating naiveties about the house getting 100% of the door fee. I'll try to cut back on using metaphors, since I am unable to make a point that's up to your standards. I'd like to apologize to the entire USA Monger community for wasting bandwidth. I didn't realize until just now that I don't know shit.

Please don't read any of my previous or future posts guys! Thank you.

NJ.[/QUOTE]From the Don't Know Shit department, some mongers don't know that they Don't Know Shit.

Some believe what they're told by all the MP girls, we don't get shit from the door fee. Others write rave reviews about a spinner that is missing teeth and doesn't know shit about swallowing. I had a real hard time suppressing my opinion on that review. It begs the question, what is it about providers that are missing their top front teeth that attracts you to them? Their smile? It can't be because she knows how to give a good BJ.

If it were up to me I would definitely have them swish and swallow after I spray their tonsils.

Maybe I just don't know shit because I would rather pay for a BBBJ than a HJ anyday.

I'm with NJ, sorry if I have misslead anybody to believe that I know shit.

[QUOTE=Charlie441;2850481]I think that's an ingredient in the dish, but not the actual reason. Waiters are paid below minimum wage due to expected tipping. In large parties, a gratuity of 20% will be added on automatically. 20% isn't a tip (or 15% if you're a senior; will not be liked so much, but understood by most). It, 20%, is for "par" service and not really a tip -- but more like the added expected fee for service, as opposed to take out.

- Bad service brings it from 20% to 15%.

- Really bad service that ya rarely see and is solely on the weight of the waiter, and with a bad attitude, it goes down to 10%.

- Jaw-dropping WTF that would make any non-picky person not go there again, is around 0%.

The actual "tipping" in restaurants is when you go over 20%. The 20% by itself is expected-gratuity.

For massage parlors, it's not a commonly understood industry. 40/20, 60/40 is the expected price+"par" gratuity (which includes a mechanical, clothed HE). Anything more than that is the true "tip".

- 40/40 can easily be had if it was a good half hour going the Whole half hour w / HE and no rush.

- Other tips, like 60/60 or 40/50 or 40/60 or 60/80 is how much more they go beyond just a mechanical, fully clothed HE.

I agree that some people who tip as if they're getting a BBBJCIM when all they're getting is a mechanical fully clothed HE by a gal who's merely kinda cute for her age -- has made the parlors more GPS on their expectations, thus prices. I can understand willing to pay more than for an escort, because at a parlor you run no risk of LE, pimps, dungeons in grandma's basement to enter, etc. But one shouldn't be overpaying parlors, because it's unnecessary + ends up not being good for the industry in the long run, when they think they can get that out of everyone else and extra GPS sets in.[/QUOTE]Well said Charlie,
I believe all mongers should unite against GPS

[QUOTE=Benz1;2850796]Well said Charlie,
I believe all mongers should unite against GPS[/QUOTE]I'll make the t-shirts and coffee mugs!

[QUOTE=Benz1;2850761]Some believe what they're told by all the MP girls, we don't get shit from the door fee. Others write rave reviews about a spinner that is missing teeth and doesn't know shit about swallowing. [/QUOTE]All? Maybe you misread me, I was talking about the spot I know well. But like you said, you are looking for BBBJCIM w / s, and they don't do that, so you don't go there. More power to yuh. To each his own, cause not everyone is you after all.

On the second bit, you got me. No clue who wrote that and who you have me confused with.

I'm on the anti-GPS bandwagon, big time. That's why is asked about it. But I'm also anti-WSTDD (wanting shit they don't do). I find my experiences are much less frustrating than those with WSTDD syndrome.

Happy hunting.

[QUOTE=Tom70;2850944]All? Maybe you misread me, I was talking about the spot I know well. But like you said, you are looking for BBBJCIM w / s, and they don't do that, so you don't go there. More power to yuh. To each his own, cause not everyone is you after all.

On the second bit, you got me. No clue who wrote that and who you have me confused with.

I'm on the anti-GPS bandwagon, big time. That's why is asked about it. But I'm also anti-WSTDD (wanting shit they don't do). I find my experiences are much less frustrating than those with WSTDD syndrome.

Happy hunting.[/QUOTE]I'm not confused, just wondering why anyone would rave about a provider that is missing teeth and gives a half assed quicky BJ. Backpage advertiser reviews 3/2/16, post #8873.

And stuff they won't do? They will all do it eventually, they are in this hobby too. They just think theirs is golden and worth more than I'm will to spend on an escort. So I won't pay $40 for a HJ, I can do that myself.

What they get:

2 girls from Pacific I've known for some time told me they get a cut of the door fee but all their tips are theirs to keep.
I believe them both not because I trust them but because if they intend to lie it would benefit them ore making me believe they share tips so I'd tip more.

What I tip:
20 for mediocre or less massage with below avg. HE.
30-40 for good to great massage WITH good to great HE. Nude and at least me touching tits minimum.
I've tipped 60 only a few times for the above when I take too long to finish. I'm older, it happens. I appreciate the extra effort.
Anything higher is for BBBJ or FS. It's happened a few times with a few girls at MPs but is rare as we know.

I don't care if its hh or hour frankly. Same tip structure.

[QUOTE=Benz1;2850980]I'm not confused, just wondering why anyone would rave about a provider that is missing teeth and gives a half assed quicky BJ. Backpage advertiser reviews 3/2/16, post #8873.[/QUOTE]Ah, I get it now. Benz, none of us know the whole scene in GR, so it's cool. You mistook the brunette Jen that I was posting about for the blonde Jen. These two are not the same person, they are whole continents apart.

[URL]http://grandrapids.backpage.com/FemaleEscorts/escape-away-with-me-specials-upon-request/24023716[/URL]

[URL]http://grandrapids.backpage.com/FemaleEscorts/warm-touch-captivating-eyes/23923198[/URL]

I've seen the first, but not the second. Although I did get a date set with another girl that the blonde Jen was working with last summer. Backed out when the scheduling went flakey and I learned from a brief phone conversation that both were working with a pimp pretty tightly.

[QUOTE=Benz1;2850980]And stuff they won't do? They will all do it eventually, they are in this hobby too. They just think theirs is golden and worth more than I'm will to spend on an escort. So I won't pay $40 for a HJ, I can do that myself.[/QUOTE]No offense intended on the Panacea side. It's not your thing, and that is also cool. I know I am looking for some experiences that not all mongers are. But I do have a soft side for that place because they offer something I really like. It's a massage parlor that is clean (doesn't smell musty with crappy falling apart walls and nasty carpet), the girls are consistent in appearance and service (not the late 30's to mid 50's girls like you find in so many other spots), and they never pester over upselling or tips (just apply a consistent suggestion). Their tip expectations have been consistent (other than the recent shift to laying the tip out first) for the years I have been frequenting them. The cruxt of your issue seems to be that this business just doesn't offer what you are looking for. So I can see why you don't go there. I just don't understand the venom for them.

I don't go to AMPs or trashy MPs because I don't like their game. But I understand why lots of guys do like that deal, and I don't see a need to build up a lot of negative energy and trash places that I don't care for.

Happy hunting!

[QUOTE=Tom70;2851142]Ah, I get it now. Benz, none of us know the whole scene in GR, so it's cool. You mistook the brunette Jen that I was posting about for the blonde Jen. These two are not the same person, they are whole continents apart.

[URL]http://grandrapids.backpage.com/FemaleEscorts/escape-away-with-me-specials-upon-request/24023716[/URL]

[URL]http://grandrapids.backpage.com/FemaleEscorts/warm-touch-captivating-eyes/23923198[/URL]

I've seen the first, but not the second. Although I did get a date set with another girl that the blonde Jen was working with last summer. Backed out when the scheduling went flakey and I learned from a brief phone conversation that both were working with a pimp pretty tightly.

No offense intended on the Panacea side. It's not your thing, and that is also cool. I know I am looking for some experiences that not all mongers are. But I do have a soft side for that place because they offer something I really like. It's a massage parlor that is clean (doesn't smell musty with crappy falling apart walls and nasty carpet), the girls are consistent in appearance and service (not the late 30's to mid 50's girls like you find in so many other spots), and they never pester over upselling or tips (just apply a consistent suggestion). Their tip expectations have been consistent (other than the recent shift to laying the tip out first) for the years I have been frequenting them. The cruxt of your issue seems to be that this business just doesn't offer what you are looking for. So I can see why you don't go there. I just don't understand the venom for them.

I don't go to AMPs or trashy MPs because I don't like their game. But I understand why lots of guys do like that deal, and I don't see a need to build up a lot of negative energy and trash places that I don't care for. Maybe if we all tipped her like a Panacea girl she could afford a trip to the dentist. If you like her get another appointment and look her over real close for Tracks and Teeth .

Happy hunting![/QUOTE]I'm still not confused, the top one Burnette Jen is missing teeth too. Maybe some mongers miss the details and maybe she doesn't smile for everyone. But if I wrote a raving review and there was this simple flaw of missing top teeth on both sides of her mouth. Possibly indicating a bad habbit. I would have said can't get enough of this chick but she is missing teeth incase anyone cares. Trackmarks and missing Teeth. If you have another appointment with her please give us an updated review. I think a couple things were left out. Or maybe I have DKS and I Don't know Shit about this chick or anything else either.


The Panacea thing is just because they have a policy about tipping that perpetuates GPS by demanding the tip to match the door fee. Keep going there and paying it their way and all MP's will jump on the GPS band wagon. Boycott it and it stops at Panacea! It's not negativity it's preventing a cancer from spreading through our GR MP's that are already lacking in service by shorting time and lousy half hated massages. There is a problem at all of them, Panacea girls still want to get paid for it up front. What if all the MP's did the same?

[QUOTE=Benz1;2851186]What if all the MP's did the same?[/QUOTE]Right, of course, they do not all do the same thing. That is the beauty of a place like Panacea, it's not dank and grubby. And I'm not putting other places down by saying that. A lot of other places prioritize just what you seem to want, bottom dollar, a full menu, with whatever women are available. No way I'm going to a dank hole, seeing an older woman, and paying what I do at Panacea, no fucking way. And there also is no way that other places will follow Panacea's model - these are different places offereing different experiences. AMPs are different than the 44th St and 28th St places, which both are different than Panacea. There is no slippery slope here.

Here is where I think I am just not connecting with you. GPS as I understand it is not where a girl at a strip club refuses to give you a car BJ date for $20 or schedule an escort date. GPS is where a girl offers one thing and delivers another, at a much different price. Or she badgers you to upsell, or charges for each new position. Generally, GPS is expecting more money than what is delivered.

Take an extreme example that I "enjoyed". I set up a visit with a chick who advertized on BP as an escort. When I showed up, the apartment was a fucking mess. Her roomate was busy in the next room behind a curtain (no door). My girls room actually had a door. She puts on these ridiculous stripper boots and outfit, and then proceeds to give me an awkward and horrible impression of a strip club lap dance, the chair lap dance like you would get out on the open floor. And she still wants top escort dollar. That is GPS in the extreme. BTW, no I did not tip her, and no I did not repeat.

By contrast, a place that has very consistent rules, fees, and service, and does so for years, I just don't see that as GPS. Look, I can have a great experience there, not comparible to any other MP in GR, for $40 plus $40. That's with a cute, fit, American, young woman who's in her early to mid 20's. No they do not have an open menu, but they never have and doubt they ever will, no matter how much you boycott them. I'd be happy to pass along details in PM, but it is decidely not the same as staying home. I recently enjoyed a visit with Natasha, and I can say that experience is the norm (fucking great).

All that said, I respect your opinion and input. You are one of the best resources active in this area. Your posts and PMs are invaluable. I just cannot get to the same page on the GPS thing in general and Panacea in particular. Also, I greatly appreciated your reply to that creepy woman, Lacey. Peace.

[QUOTE=Tom70;2851244]Right, of course, they do not all do the same thing. That is the beauty of a place like Panacea, it's not dank and grubby. And I'm not putting other places down by saying that. A lot of other places prioritize just what you seem to want, bottom dollar, a full menu, with whatever women are available. No way I'm going to a dank hole, seeing an older woman, and paying what I do at Panacea, no fucking way. And there also is no way that other places will follow Panacea's model - these are different places offereing different experiences. AMPs are different than the 44th St and 28th St places, which both are different than Panacea. There is no slippery slope here.

Here is where I think I am just not connecting with you. GPS as I understand it is not where a girl at a strip club refuses to give you a car BJ date for $20 or schedule an escort date. GPS is where a girl offers one thing and delivers another, at a much different price. Or she badgers you to upsell, or charges for each new position. Generally, GPS is expecting more money than what is delivered.

Take an extreme example that I "enjoyed". I set up a visit with a chick who advertized on BP as an escort. When I showed up, the apartment was a fucking mess. Her roomate was busy in the next room behind a curtain (no door). My girls room actually had a door. She puts on these ridiculous stripper boots and outfit, and then proceeds to give me an awkward and horrible impression of a strip club lap dance, the chair lap dance like you would get out on the open floor. And she still wants top escort dollar. That is GPS in the extreme. BTW, no I did not tip her, and no I did not repeat.

By contrast, a place that has very consistent rules, fees, and service, and does so for years, I just don't see that as GPS. Look, I can have a great experience there, not comparible to any other MP in GR, for $40 plus $40. That's with a cute, fit, American, young woman who's in her early to mid 20's. No they do not have an open menu, but they never have and doubt they ever will, no matter how much you boycott them. I'd be happy to pass along details in PM, but it is decidely not the same as staying home. I recently enjoyed a visit with Natasha, and I can say that experience is the norm (fucking great).

All that said, I respect your opinion and input. You are one of the best resources active in this area. Your posts and PMs are invaluable. I just cannot get to the same page on the GPS thing in general and Panacea in particular. Also, I greatly appreciated your reply to that creepy woman, Lacey. Peace.[/QUOTE]Glad you saw that post before it was removed and sorry to hear of her being a pest. We should all boycott her too.

I do my best to give accuracy in my reviewing and try to show respect in my thoughts on this Fourm however it is difficult at times. I also don't believe in slamming anyones atf. If she's not for me no big deal. But there is some important things that should not be left out or left to PM.
And telling people they are naive is not the way to start a healthy discussion about any provider or MP. We all have a different view and that would not make them naive.

[QUOTE=Benz1;2851311]But there is some important things that should not be left out or left to PM.[/QUOTE]Fair enough. But I don't recall anyone who's mentioned her teeth, and she has been reviewed a number of times. The blonde Jen is apparently missing most of her front teeth, is a horrible performer, and is really subconscious about her teeth. So I don't know how I missed anything important about the brunette Jen.

Unless I was supposed to mention that she has more teeth than the blonde Jen. LOL!

[QUOTE=Tom70;2851319]Fair enough. But I don't recall anyone who's mentioned her teeth, and she has been reviewed a number of times. The blonde Jen is apparently missing most of her front teeth, is a horrible performer, and is really subconscious about her teeth. So I don't know how I missed anything important about the brunette Jen.

Unless I was supposed to mention that she has more teeth than the blonde Jen. LOL![/QUOTE]LOL. This is true, from reports I've read blonde Jen has alot less teeth than brunette Jen. I have seen the track marks and missing teeth on brunette Jen and won't repeat. While I was reading your review on her I was very tempted to say you would be naive if you missed those things in your visit with her. But I try not to be a ballbuster, as I said before I don't slam ATF's. However I find it very confusing on how someone could be so keen to remark on the cleanliness of a Massage Parlor but completely miss some red flags on a provider.

We should all do our best to scan our surroundings and the provider to give the best review possible.

Happy Easter.

[QUOTE=Benz1;2851371]LOL. This is true, from reports I've read blonde Jen has alot less teeth than brunette Jen. I have seen the track marks and missing teeth on brunette Jen and won't repeat. While I was reading your review on her I was very tempted to say you would be naive if you missed those things in your visit with her. But I try not to be a ballbuster, as I said before I don't slam ATF's. However I find it very confusing on how someone could be so keen to remark on the cleanliness of a Massage Parlor but completely miss some red flags on a provider.

We should all do our best to scan our surroundings and the provider to give the best review possible.

Happy Easter.[/QUOTE]Not buying that. Nobody has claimed anything like ATF status with Jen. I described her as fun and cute, and that she didn't watch the clock, but I also pointed out the recent pregnancy, and not great BJ skills. Not exactly a ATF endorsement. Seems like most others review her the same, accurate pics, looks OK, performs OK, and also nothing in particular to write home about. Can't find any the depart much from that (other than reviews for blonde Jen, who is a decidedly different person). If you thought that you had important info about her, you should have chimed in after my review or after any of the many other reviews before and after, all of which mention nothing like this crucial missed information. None of us would have been bent out of shape by your sharing that. Just doesn't wash.

Other than me and Panacea, there's no ATF involved in this exchange.

But we'll just have to agree to disagree on these points.

Enjoy!

[QUOTE=Tom70;2851244]Right, of course, they do not all do the same thing. That is the beauty of a place like Panacea, it's not dank and grubby. And I'm not putting other places down by saying that. A lot of other places prioritize just what you seem to want, bottom dollar, a full menu, with whatever women are available. No way I'm going to a dank hole, seeing an older woman, and paying what I do at Panacea, no fucking way. And there also is no way that other places will follow Panacea's model - these are different places offereing different experiences. AMPs are different than the 44th St and 28th St places, which both are different than Panacea. There is no slippery slope here.

Here is where I think I am just not connecting with you. GPS as I understand it is not where a girl at a strip club refuses to give you a car BJ date for $20 or schedule an escort date. GPS is where a girl offers one thing and delivers another, at a much different price. Or she badgers you to upsell, or charges for each new position. Generally, GPS is expecting more money than what is delivered.

Take an extreme example that I "enjoyed". I set up a visit with a chick who advertized on BP as an escort. When I showed up, the apartment was a fucking mess. Her roomate was busy in the next room behind a curtain (no door). My girls room actually had a door. She puts on these ridiculous stripper boots and outfit, and then proceeds to give me an awkward and horrible impression of a strip club lap dance, the chair lap dance like you would get out on the open floor. And she still wants top escort dollar. That is GPS in the extreme. BTW, no I did not tip her, and no I did not repeat.

By contrast, a place that has very consistent rules, fees, and service, and does so for years, I just don't see that as GPS. Look, I can have a great experience there, not comparible to any other MP in GR, for $40 plus $40. That's with a cute, fit, American, young woman who's in her early to mid 20's. No they do not have an open menu, but they never have and doubt they ever will, no matter how much you boycott them. I'd be happy to pass along details in PM, but it is decidely not the same as staying home. I recently enjoyed a visit with Natasha, and I can say that experience is the norm (fucking great).

All that said, I respect your opinion and input. You are one of the best resources active in this area. Your posts and PMs are invaluable. I just cannot get to the same page on the GPS thing in general and Panacea in particular. Also, I greatly appreciated your reply to that creepy woman, Lacey. Peace.[/QUOTE]To me, GPS is when any lady gets "golden pussy syndrome", where she thinks her service is worth more dollars than the going rate for that service. For example, if the going rate for a massage with a HE is $40 for a half hour and a $30 tip but she demands a $50 tip because she thinks she's that much better. That's GPS. Then when mongers give her the tip she demands for mediocre service and posts about what a great person she is and how she looks better and has a cleaner location than someone else who provides the same service that just leads to more GPS. I'm in agreement with the guys who think tipping up front is crazy, how can you provide a tip before you know what you are tipping for? And you can't possibly know what you are tipping for until the service is completed. To lay a "tip" out when you don't know what you are getting is stupid, and also opens up the opportunity for a case to be made that the "tip" isn't because of great service but is payment for a sex act.

[QUOTE]Generally, GPS is expecting more money than what is delivered.[/QUOTE]That can be one angle motivated by GPS. But Golden Puzzy Syndrome is where they think their pussy's made of gold, hence, expecting above what would be market price. Much like someone trying to sell their 2000 Dodge Stratus with 150 k miles on it for No Less than $8,000. Not because they're trying to squeeze as much money out of it as they can and are hoping for a sucker, but because they Actually Think it's worth that price because they kept the interior nice smelling since day 1 with no dents, and think of it is as their precious baby (market price would be around $1,250). This outlandish belief could have been originally motivated by their greed or current strong need of money, but that's delving into psychology which is a whole other story.

GPS is when one thinks their parts are made of gold and expect price to reflect that for sexual situations, while in reality, their parts very well may be nice, but bronze at best. Solidly Over market price. I like Whoppers at Burger King, I'm not knocking Whoppers. But I'm not going to pay $10 for one, especially when Burger King's head is in the clouds advertising it like the meat is laced with gold or something.

[QUOTE=Tom70;2851244]Right, of course, they do not all do the same thing. That is the beauty of a place like Panacea, it's not dank and grubby. And I'm not putting other places down by saying that. A lot of other places prioritize just what you seem to want, bottom dollar, a full menu, with whatever women are available. No way I'm going to a dank hole, seeing an older woman, and paying what I do at Panacea, no fucking way.[/QUOTE]I agree. However, just because Pancea is worth more than a dank & grubby place on in the back of a parking lot on 28th street, doesn't at all mean they're incapable of having GPS.

[QUOTE]By contrast, a place that has very consistent rules, fees, and service, and does so for years, I just don't see that as GPS. Look, I can have a great experience there, not comparible to any other MP in GR, for $40 plus $40. That's with a cute, fit, American, young woman who's in her early to mid 20's. No they do not have an open menu, but they never have and doubt they ever will, no matter how much you boycott them. I'd be happy to pass along details in PM, but it is decidely not the same as staying home. I recently enjoyed a visit with Natasha, and I can say that experience is the norm (fucking great).[/QUOTE]But they did recently or semi-recently change their fees, which is what causes the eyebrow to raise, and things to be considered & weighed. I can see $40/40 being great with a cute, fit, American young woman who gives a great massage. Of course. But you're not always going to get such an ideal situation at Pancea, so the bare-minimum raised prices for All is what raises the eyebrow. It's easier to see it as not-a-huge-thing when you're talking about a whole half hour, one of the better looking girls who knows how to tickle your elmo just right, for $40/$40.

But $60/$60 for all girls, even ones not wanting to take off any clothing, hardly says much, and just wants to give a mechanical HE hoping to scoot you out 10+ minutes early? That's the problem with the raised baseline fees.

I wouldn't mind that if it was pretty much a guarantee that I'd get what would be worthy of paying $60/$60 -- not just worthy to me, but market-wise. But that's not happening, even though there is a valid argument it's a better choice than particular dark & dank places that go $60/$40. But to "tip" up-front isn't a tip -- that's more a required Tax.

So is it worth $120 for 45-60 minutes, to a girl the 1st time or the like, with no shower and getting / owed nothing else beyond what a baseline 'tip' would bring? I would want to make that call to determine whether it's $90 (bad), $100 (par), or $120 (Grrrreat).

[QUOTE=Blackfire;2851638]To lay a "tip" out when you don't know what you are getting is stupid, and also opens up the opportunity for a case to be made that the "tip" isn't because of great service but is payment for a sex act.[/QUOTE]If the lady is having a bad day and your massage is crappy because of it, does she voluntarily give part of the layed out tip back? FUCK NO! Sounds like a NAIVE way of tipping, or at best, a Noobie mistake.

Tips are earned people. Not just given. It's called a "tip" for a reason and it shouldn't be included with the door fee. I was a bartender for years and never once had someone put the tip down before they ever got a single drink. Common sense should tell ya when to put the tip on the table. In case your lacking common sense I'll cut you some slack for being like most Americans these days and clue you in. The tip comes after the services have been provided. Write it down if you need to. Also don't forget to tip your bartender or your massage therapist assuming they did a good job!!

I went to see Natasha at Panacea I did not have to leave a tip upfront with her. Although I would because she never disappoints (other than she does not work enough so she is hard to reach sometimes LOL! She is like getting a massage from a new found lover she is totally GFE as a massage place gets in GR. In my opinion not as good as the Islands but she is much better looking!

[QUOTE=Lakeshore1;2253728]Does anyone have any info on her? I am going to take a ride that way tonight. She sounds very nice.

[URL]http://grandrapids.backpage.com/BodyRubs/let-my-magic-hands-take-your-stress-away-30/17388146[/URL]

Thanks much.[/QUOTE]Is she still around? Apparently she went on her own for awhile.

[QUOTE=Benz1;2849027]The way I see it, it's just one more muscle for them to massage, if it's only a HJ then what's the big deal?

I propose that we all go into Panacea, give them the house fee for their time , offer 20 for a HJ if they say no, proceed with self sevice. LOL. That will fix their attitudes. It's just a frikking HJ and most of them are mechanical anyway. So you're not missing much.

The new place on 28th near Petros wanted 60 I said 20 and she said 40 I said just give me my massage for the hour and I am good with that, if you want 20 then finish with the HJ. She took the 20. It's your money. Panacea girls can starve with that attitude or offer the full time plus a reasonable tip for a job well done massaging all my muscles.
If you want a massage by a naked girl with a bj call any escort. She will be cheaper than any girl at Panacea[/QUOTE]Massage is a service. A business transaction. A HJ is an Extra service above the massage. Women will tip 20 for a regular massage done with draping and no hanky panky or steam box diddling.

Hopefully my Brother Monger Benz isn't tipping the few good ladies in GR only 20? If we match the tip with the massage / HJ skill and wether or not we get shorted on time, the Good MP Ladies should get more than 20 regardless of their age or looks.

While no one should reward GPS or time shorting or someone that lets out a disgusted sigh as they reach for your cock, we should reward the Good Ones with a good tip. Anyone that's been MP Mongering for a little while knows, if they are honest, when they get a good Lady / Massage. The good ones are hard to find boys! If all you want is a HJ and the massage means very little, why bother going to a MP? If you feel you need to find an escort at a MP, LA Spa in Portland is 35 minutes away and The Islands is 1 hr away. This isn't rocket science boys. If it was, I would have been red shirted a long long time ago!

Viva La MP and Viva la HJ!

NJ.

[QUOTE=NoseJelly;2852911]Massage is a service. A business transaction. A HJ is an Extra service above the massage. Women will tip 20 for a regular massage done with draping and no hanky panky or steam box diddling.[/QUOTE]Okay, so if a guy doesn't get an HJ, he should (only) tip 20 for that hour, just as a lady-customer would since there'd be no difference in the experience, right? I can't argue with that at all. Obviously More if one does get their HJ.

The problem is when it's a bolted-on "tip", and a big one matching the rate. So the (heterosexual, proper) lady customers at Pancea will have to pay $60/$60 upfront. Is that worth it? Are they really going to want that? No, of course not. Way above market price. The bolted-on up-front gratuity makes it not actually include the Extra service (s). It puts the customer in position that there "better be" some extra services at no-extra-cost, since it was $60/$60. And if the guys come out "empty Handed", especially when engaging with a so-so looking fully-clothed gal, it'll definitely be a WTF. It's not good for said customers in those situations, and not good for Pancea when too many of those situations occur.

[QUOTE]If all you want is a HJ and the massage means very little, why bother going to a MP?[/QUOTE]Because even though a MP isn't exactly going to the Ritz Carlton, it still avoids any chance of running into LEO + one doesn't have to worry about avoiding crazy pimps or wacked out gals in some isolated environment like a motel or odd apt when trying someone they haven't before. So at $60/$40, when you don't come out "empty Handed", it's obviously already pound for pound more $$ than engaging with an escort. Making it a pre-paid $60/$60 with the possibility of coming out "empty Handed" is just really unfortunate for both sides. I say that assuming Pancea's not stacked with customers always coming in who'd be more than willing to pay $60/$100 for a massage+HJ with a so-so looking gal who'd just get down to undergarments.

[QUOTE]If you feel you need to find an escort at a MP, LA Spa in Portland is 35 minutes away and The Islands is 1 hr away.[/QUOTE]True. It makes places like that be more of an option to lose one's business to. Just unfortunate many folks have lost that "happy medium" close to home. .

[QUOTE=NoseJelly;2852911]Massage is a service. A business transaction. A HJ is an Extra service above the massage. Women will tip 20 for a regular massage done with draping and no hanky panky or steam box diddling.

Hopefully my Brother Monger Benz isn't tipping the few good ladies in GR only 20? If we match the tip with the massage / HJ skill and wether or not we get shorted on time, the Good MP Ladies should get more than 20 regardless of their age or looks.

While no one should reward GPS or time shorting or someone that lets out a disgusted sigh as they reach for your cock, we should reward the Good Ones with a good tip. Anyone that's been MP Mongering for a little while knows, if they are honest, when they get a good Lady / Massage. The good ones are hard to find boys! If all you want is a HJ and the massage means very little, why bother going to a MP? If you feel you need to find an escort at a MP, LA Spa in Portland is 35 minutes away and The Islands is 1 hr away. This isn't rocket science boys. If it was, I would have been red shirted a long long time ago!

Viva La MP and Viva la HJ!

NJ.[/QUOTE]I do consider NJ the MP expert on this site, he has been to most and can give valuable info about all locations and probably most of the girls. Are there good ones left? Most have gone for the rushed ending and forgot the massage part. Not caring about the massage is part of the problem here too. This is why I have been so vocal, I'm usually not happy with the massage or the mechanical ending. And now we hear of paying up front for what? We don't know yet.

I have tipped a twenty at that Asian MP because it was a half assed massage and she was rushing to the ending for a big tip. I knew as soon as I blew it would be over, a good reason to tell her no and get back to the massage I paid for. I've walked out of many massage appointments and have done the same thing 20 or nothing. Some have taken some don't. They were lousy massages and should be treated as such.

Show me a CMT and you can tell who they are. They care about the your massage and don't short time. In fact many CMT have gone longer into overtime with me because of my bad leg. I treat them with the same respect they give me. Some may not have a CMT and it shows. It's possible that Natasha has the skills because many have raved about her massages. She is the only one that I would risk getting a massage and paying for the tip up front at Panacea. I have not seen her because I don't need to ad a new CMT to my list at this time.

If I go to another MP in GR I will treat them with the same respect they treat me. A good massage, full time and a good ending will deserve a good tip from me.

Ladies, it's time to step up and do a good job if you want a tip.

[QUOTE=Benz1;2853129]If I go to another MP in GR I will treat them with the same respect they treat me. A good massage, full time and a good ending will deserve a good tip from me.

Ladies, it's time to step up and do a good job if you want a tip.[/QUOTE]That's fair. Good tip for good service. Don't under tip for good or over tip for bad. (duh!

IMO the MP scene was way better before Jennifer and that lap dog of hers, Barry got their fingers into GR. Assembly line massage. Draw the guys in with really young lookers that would rather do Candy than give good service. Then Kiet and others felt they had to follow suit.

That's why Forums like this exist. Brings reason to the BigHead that the LittleHead can't understand.

NJ.

I won't tip up front.

If that's the policy I boycott Panacea.

Plenty of MPs in GR.