"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Brothers,

I may be dim, but I have always struggled to understand the difference / definition between UTR and non-pro. Is it a question of semantics, approach, self-definition, or what? According to my research, a non-pro is desirable, but a UTR is not, but it seems like they might be interchangeable, or am I just not getting it?

I await enlightenment,

Scott

And PS, I know what "UTR" means as far as an acronym, so please don't tell me to RTTF, lol! I'm looking for precision here, not Broad Brush.

Peace.

Somewhere along the line, someone was asking about the security of Google Voice with regard to hobbying. In short, it ain't secure at all. It needs your real phone number to connect calls and texts to your phone, which can be traced to you with a court order. It is true that you can use it without attaching it to any phone at all, but then you need to use a computer for everything, which activity can be traced as well.

It is however, a great convenience for the features, especially the number blocking,"Do not disturb" and different notification settings for different numbers.

You can't get away from a computer completely if you use an iPhone (neither the GV mobile web site, nor the iPhone app let you manage Google contacts, where you do all the good stuff about blocking and notifications) , but an Android phone may. I don't know about that, so you'd need to experiment.

Good luck.

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1825613]Brothers,

I may be dim, but I have always struggled to understand the difference / definition between UTR and non-pro. Is it a question of semantics, approach, self-definition, or what? According to my research, a non-pro is desirable, but a UTR is not, but it seems like they might be interchangeable, or am I just not getting it?

I await enlightenment,

Scott.

And PS, I know what "UTR" means as far as an acronym, so please don't tell me to RTTF, LOL! I'm looking for precision here, not Broad Brush.

Peace.[/QUOTE]For me, UTR has always meant a pro who doesn't advertise, or only advertises occasionally, or keeps only a few familiar clients and doesn't stray from them very often except in special cases.

Whereas a non-pro is just that. Might take some sugar, but doesn't acknowledge selling it per se, even though she is.

I consider the sugar baby I had to have been a non-pro. If she was doing others, she wasn't obvious about it so I would have called her UTR.

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1825613]Brothers,

I may be dim, but I have always struggled to understand the difference / definition between UTR and non-pro. Is it a question of semantics, approach, self-definition, or what? According to my research, a non-pro is desirable, but a UTR is not, but it seems like they might be interchangeable, or am I just not getting it?

I await enlightenment,

Scott.

And PS, I know what "UTR" means as far as an acronym, so please don't tell me to RTTF, LOL! I'm looking for precision here, not Broad Brush.

Peace.[/QUOTE]A UTR is a pro on the down low.

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1825613]Brothers,

I may be dim, but I have always struggled to understand the difference / definition between UTR and non-pro. Is it a question of semantics, approach, self-definition, or what? According to my research, a non-pro is desirable, but a UTR is not, but it seems like they might be interchangeable, or am I just not getting it?

I await enlightenment,

Scott.

And PS, I know what "UTR" means as far as an acronym, so please don't tell me to RTTF, LOL! I'm looking for precision here, not Broad Brush.

Peace.[/QUOTE]They are very close indeed. I'd venture the following:

UTR: Is someone who is in it for the money, just doesn't want to advertise. She's the type that will let you refer friends.

Non-Pro: Is someone who needs the money, but wants more of a connection and doesn't want her information shared as she's not doing this as a profession.

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1824720]Gentlemen,

I am not trying to be obtuse, nor trying to be an asshole, but I am confused by the current dialogue about a pay-per-view camsite where you can "chat", in a group, with European women on your computer, while there are perfectly obtainable, domestic babies who you can actually fuck in real time!

To each his own, of course, but is this the proper venue for a "virtual sex" discussion? I, for one, would be very reluctant to book a flight to Prague to see someone who I had only "met" via her webcam.

Feel free to disagree,

Scott[/QUOTE]Not going to disagree. The [I]entire [/I]idea of cam-girls, foreign or domestic, seems a little on the silly side to me. No touch interactive porn at escort, or at least street hooker, prices. I don't get it.

Well, as mentioned last week, I am just back from NJ and what a beautiful night with SB. But so far, I have been able to keep my SD name with her. But my SB heard my last name when hotel concierge service called me. And also at dinner reservation. Too bad. With my last name and location, SB can really find my info. This topic has been discussed many times. On this forum, like using prepaid card, requesting hotel under different name. I am almost thinking. Requesting hotel to place it under my pet name. Or something! I want to try that next time. I have not revealed my family status.

I was in a 5-star hotel. And pretty much formal. Got in trouble! But at the end SB is telling me everything about her life. Don't want to open my personal life! Now I am thinking. Is this going to work! Can a good SB. Will like a truth? Can they digest? When I entered in SD / Sb first time. 1 SB. Rejected me after she found out the truth. I don't know this will last longer. Unless I learn to create a complete false identity- credit card / pre-paid with SD name, book hotel under different name, etc. I want to go for 2-3 day long trip. And hoping. To have a plan.

I just can't reveal my real identity as it will call for disaster! 1) I know this SB will leave 2) personal life will get destroyed. Need to go back and look at some of the pros like HollywoodGuy, Scott, Revvo, BiggT have written. I thought I have read entire forum twice and followed up daily basis. But. Need to come up with plan.

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1824720]To each his own, of course, but is this the proper venue for a "virtual sex" discussion? I, for one, would be very reluctant to book a flight to Prague to see someone who I had only "met" via her webcam.

Feel free to disagree,

Scott[/QUOTE]I agree. Virtual sex? Bah. Waste of time and energy.

Flying to Prague to see someone I'd only met online? Now we're talking sex tourism. Still not the right thread. But I've done variations of this 5 times. Very cost effective. And every one was a simply outstanding experience.

Well, I am going back to old info on our forum and acting now. I just created a brand new gmail account (google+) , FB page, Linkedln. Working on to make a true person and creating a social media image. I want that to come on Google search when someone look for my name. I want to use my SD name! Prepaid card and need to work on a new cell phone.

[QUOTE=KingGreg;1825883]Well, I am going back to old info on our forum and acting now. I just created a brand new gmail account (google+) , FB page, Linkedln. Working on to make a true person and creating a social media image. I want that to come on Google search when someone look for my name. I want to use my SD name! Prepaid card and need to work on a new cell phone.[/QUOTE]King,

I book the hotels through Expedia and it asks for who you want the trip booked through? And I put the baby's name. Then use my credit card to make the prepaid reservation. Then I call Expedia customer service and tell them I need my name put on the reservation to check in and I do this on the day of checkin.

When I check in the hotel has her name but will let me check in. And I sit her down in the lobby to play with her phone while I am checking in so she does not overhear anything. Then another nice touch is that a lot of the higher end hotels have installed IP phones with the large display in the room and when you go into the room it has your full name. The name displayed has been my SB's name not mine. Since I have done this.

So this way I have been able to access the room and it be in my SB's name. Worked so far with Expedia and a particular hotel I have been using.

You may want to try this. Almost seems foolproof. But not sure how it will work at other hotels.

Lets be careful out there.

Revvo

Greg,

I just used my online reservation, 'flubbed name' method again last night at a 4 star Hilton and it once again worked like a charm.

To refresh: If your real last name is 'Johnson' Book the room as "Janson" or what-have-you. You can pay with your real credit card, and probably even have to show I'd, but as long as you have the internet confirmation # handy they will still book you even if the name is wrong. They kept my 'flubbed' name on the registration, not bothering to change it and I checked on the TV account system when I got in the room. It was showing the 'flubbed' name just as I hoped.

Good luck!

[QUOTE=KingGreg;1825883]Well, I am going back to old info on our forum and acting now. I just created a brand new gmail account (google+) , FB page, Linkedln. Working on to make a true person and creating a social media image. I want that to come on Google search when someone look for my name. I want to use my SD name! Prepaid card and need to work on a new cell phone.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.facebook.com/clientreviews101[/url]

I found this mentioned on USASG | Cincinnati | General Discussion. Read starting 07-22-2013 | #3525 by Strolnarnd. This discussion is evolving. The executive summary thus far is women have been posting anonymous reviews since 2008 complete with our personal info and phone number. I know nothing about how Facebook works so I don't understand the reference about it being difficult for a male to crack into the thread. It seems to be more about an escort-john situation without explaining why any woman could not post on anyone using Facebook.

I don't know how deep into Facebook Google goes. I wonder if a Google of our phone number would turn up a review found at clientreviews101.

Chiguy, I love this idea. I am going to try it and report back.

It makes perfect sense.

Revvo.

[QUOTE=ChiGuy606; 1826181]Greg,

I just used my online reservation, 'flubbed name' method again last night at a 4 star Hilton and it once again worked like a charm.

To refresh: If your real last name is 'Johnson' Book the room as "Janson" or what-have-you. You can pay with your real credit card, and probably even have to show I'd, but as long as you have the internet confirmation # handy they will still book you even if the name is wrong. They kept my 'flubbed' name on the registration, not bothering to change it and I checked on the TV account system when I got in the room. It was showing the 'flubbed' name just as I hoped.

Good luck![/QUOTE]

POT#1 / SB #2.

Last night I overtly registered for a 2 star extended stay hotel with POT # 1, who became SB # 2. Things went well with dinner. She is a 28 yr old I called a 8/9? . She is now a 7/8/8/8 Like so many young MILFs she carries a little too much weight, maybe 20#, but she didn't miss a beat when I offered the hotel / Sugar option and we had a rousing 1 1/2 hour session which she seemed to enjoy. She received my sperm donation BB and to her credit did not leap up and immediately race to the bathroom to cleanse herself of those dirty buggers like so many do. I paid cash but had to give I'd. They said there would be no communication unless I listed an email #, so I should be OK. Again she is a little too heavy to make it as a pot ATF, but I will add her to the dwindling rotation.

ATF # 3 / POT EX ATF #3.

Last meeting was nice but she freaked about a newly developed interest in using condoms. I said " no dice" so I think she is calling it quits again. You can't go backwards and she already doesn't kiss so the nbenefits are being outweighed by the negatives. Too bad because she is such a 10/10. I'll miss her unless she has a change of heart, but I'm getting over the angst.

SB # 1

Is up tonight. She takes it BB and is a looker, thin like I like them.

Just a heads up to the Richmond community, girl #1672763 on SA has a pic posted that's NOT her. It was pulled from some ****** site. She sent me some real ones of her and they aren't even close. Too bad. Girl shown in the profile is a real knockout! (Thanks Google Image)

ASL

For anyone going bareback, Plan B is now over the counter.

[url]http://www.planbonestep.com/about-plan-b-one-step.aspx[/url]

[QUOTE=Spitfire; 1826624]For anyone going bareback, Plan B is now over the counter.

[url]http://www.planbonestep.com/about-plan-b-one-step.aspx[/url][/QUOTE]Call me Captain Oblivious, but I thought it had been for some time now. Not needing that sort of thing, I hope I'll be forgiven. (:

[noparse]/[/noparse]z

[QUOTE=Spitfire; 1826624]For anyone going bareback, Plan B is now over the counter.

[url]http://www.planbonestep.com/about-plan-b-one-step.aspx[/url][/QUOTE]Yeah I fucked up this week. Had a sleepover with one of my favorite SB's went bareback for the firsttime. Did not bother to check if she was on birth control. And sure enough she was not. She never even attempted to stop me. This chick really likes me. She is always trying to do things to please me. Will do anything I want. Made me wonder if she was trying to trap me. Very attractive. Thin and very flexible. Physically and emotionally. Then we are talking about it afterward and she tells me that she had an accident before with her ex husband and would not have an abortion. That is where she got her son from.

At this point I am freaking out. But I don't let her see that. We finish the night and the next day I hold her hand, look her in the eyes, and calmly talked to her about plan B. I explain that is not an abortion pill, it is a form of contraceptive just like birth control pills. In fact many women take two birth control pills the morning after because it acts like PlanB. And that it is over the counter you just go to the pharmacist to get it. She agreed.

I went in and got the pill, she waited in the car, and I bought a bottle of water. Watched her take it. She is very cool. Not into playing games. Now she tells me that in order to avoid this happening again, I can just go bareback, and when I am ready to cum. I can just pull out and cum in her mouth! I shit you not! This one is a keeper.

Amazing you brought this up. It happened on Tuesday. Maybe you guys can learn from another one of my fuckups.

Lets be careful out there.

Revvo

Today must have been the day that all the crazy girls on SA sent out winks. I got several, and they all were out of their minds. The first lives 2200 miles from me and thought I might be interested in flying her out for a visit. Of course with a substantial amount of Sugar, and oh yeah, no sex. The next was a local, slightly chubby, mixed girl who said she was looking for an ongoing NSA SD. She wanted to get together today. She let me know that for $$$$ she would be willing to provide oral. For 1000, she could be able to see herself actually having sex. The last one was an attractive blond, whose profile said 5-10k per month and no sex right off the bat. I responded just to see what she would say, and she was happy to have drinks tonight for a modest honorarium of $.5. Who is giving these girls these ideas?

[QUOTE=Revvo;1826750]Now she tells me that in order to avoid this happening again, I can just go bareback, and when I am ready to cum. I can just pull out and cum in her mouth! I shit you not! This one is a keeper.[/QUOTE]If she actually thinks that's effective birth control, her education leaves a lot to be desired. If not, then she could still be trying to trap you. If [I]you [/I]believe that's effective birth control, then [I]your [/I]education is lacking. Either that or you're letting the little head do your thinking.

The so-call "pre-cum" fluid contains sperm. It's certainly less likely that the lower volume in that fluid will impregnate her, but it's far from impossible.

[QUOTE=Dsprdo;1826766]Today must have been the day that all the crazy girls on SA sent out winks. I got several, and they all were out of their minds. The first lives 2200 miles from me and thought I might be interested in flying her out for a visit. Of course with a substantial amount of Sugar, and oh yeah, no sex. The next was a local, slightly chubby, mixed girl who said she was looking for an ongoing NSA SD. She wanted to get together today. She let me know that for $$$$ she would be willing to provide oral. For 1000, she could be able to see herself actually having sex. The last one was an attractive blond, whose profile said 5-10k per month and no sex right off the bat. I responded just to see what she would say, and she was happy to have drinks tonight for a modest honorarium of $.5. Who is giving these girls these ideas?[/QUOTE]If you look at my ratings list these girls are all 1's (out of a possible 10). Fantasizing and wasting your time.

[QUOTE=Zomby; 1827195]If she actually thinks that's effective birth control, her education leaves a lot to be desired. If not, then she could still be trying to trap you. If [I]you [/I]believe that's effective birth control, then [I]your [/I]education is lacking. Either that or you're letting the little head do your thinking.

The so-call "pre-cum" fluid contains sperm. It's certainly less likely that the lower volume in that fluid will impregnate her, but it's far from impossible.[/QUOTE]You are absolutely correct with the risk of precum and the pullout method.

However, in my older years I have an absolute 5 seconds from the first ejaculatory spasm (the point of no return) until the appearance of ANY fluid at the urethral opening. I know you younger guys have 1 sec at best. Masturbation studies demonstrate your refractory period and it's important to know that. It's not foolproof but it's better than nothing.

Re: pregnancy, it is important to know your receiver's attitude towards an unwanted pregnancy. It's better to pay for an abortion than 18 yrs of child support.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;1827283]If you look at my ratings list these girls are all 1's (out of a possible 10). Fantasizing and wasting your time.[/QUOTE]I agree. I usually respond to a wink with one email, because you never know, but quickly pulled the plug on these three. I have actually hooked up with one person who winked at me, for a reasonable amount of sugar, but in general it seems that if they are sending out winks to every guy on the site, they are not good prospects.

"Re: pregnancy, it is important to know your receiver's attitude towards an unwanted pregnancy. It's better to pay for an abortion than 18 yrs of child support." Nando.

Something I think is so bizarre is the SB's frequent lack of foresight in using Birth Control of any kind. This has happened a lot in my Quest. Why would a girl who is trolling for a SD who 99. 99% of the time is going to require sex not protect herself? (That excludes the obvious who is attempting to entrap a SD ). But none of the girls I've seen were desirous of a baby. To with They reacted very negatively when late or irregular.

[QUOTE=Revvo; 1826750]Yeah I fucked up this week. Had a sleepover with one of my favorite SB's went bareback for the firsttime. Did not bother to check if she was on birth control. And sure enough she was not. She never even attempted to stop me. This chick really likes me. She is always trying to do things to please me. Will do anything I want. Made me wonder if she was trying to trap me. Very attractive. Thin and very flexible. Physically and emotionally. Then we are talking about it afterward and she tells me that she had an accident before with her ex husband and would not have an abortion. That is where she got her son from.

Amazing you brought this up. It happened on Tuesday. Maybe you guys can learn from another one of my fuckups.

Lets be careful out there.

Revvo[/QUOTE]I agree. I was in NJ on business trip and met my SB for 2nd time. She wanted bareback and kept saying don't stop it is ok. I didn't ask why it is but. I decided to do it outside! She is great looking, average but beautiful looking. She could get 9 or 10 if she works on her body. Got hourglass figure and beautiful face, very lively. So I am sold. My problem is, I am getting emotionally attached. And now I know about her a lot. But real problem is she is asking my last name and real info about myself. Well, that is where I am having issues. Can a good SB accept us as SD (with no personal life info?) as-is? I doubt if all can do it specially the ones SBs who are new in this world.

Well be careful. As it is better careful and take precaution than sorry. I would say. Avoid it if you can. I need to learn based on this topic and feedback.

May I suggest surgically altering ones genitalia in order to prevent conception.

Certainly there is a week or so of discomfort involved (coinciding with a few weeks of separation from one's sugar-babies) , however the end result is a lifetime of piece of mind!

(Making a mental note to myself to research masturbatory refractory periods, sounds like a hoot!)

-Chi.

[QUOTE=Hernando; 1827286]You are absolutely correct with the risk of precum and the pullout method.

However, in my older years I have an absolute 5 seconds from the first ejaculatory spasm (the point of no return) until the appearance of ANY fluid at the urethral opening. I know you younger guys have 1 sec at best. Masturbation studies demonstrate your refractory period and it's important to know that. It's not foolproof but it's better than nothing.

Re: pregnancy, it is important to know your receiver's attitude towards an unwanted pregnancy. It's better to pay for an abortion than 18 yrs of child support.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Zomby; 1827195]If she actually thinks that's effective birth control, her education leaves a lot to be desired. If not, then she could still be trying to trap you. If [I]you [/I]believe that's effective birth control, then [I]your [/I]education is lacking. Either that or you're letting the little head do your thinking.

The so-call "pre-cum" fluid contains sperm. It's certainly less likely that the lower volume in that fluid will impregnate her, but it's far from impossible.[/QUOTE]Actually pulling out when done properly is only about 2% less effective than using a condom to prevent pregnancy. A condom is about 98% effective (when it doesn't break and spew all your sperm inside her) and pulling out is 96% effective. If you don't believe, read the Planned Parenthood site: [url]http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-control/withdrawal-pull-out-method-4218.htm[/url]

Yes with pulling out you need good control, but most of us are older and experienced and aren't spontaneously combusting teenagers.

It's just of course pulling out does nothing to protect from STDs, so that's where your real risk is. But as long as you pee betweens rounds, pulling out is very effective for pregnancy prevention and you don't have to worry about condoms getting loose or breaking.

[QUOTE=Hernando;1827286]Re: pregnancy, it is important to know your receiver's attitude towards an unwanted pregnancy. It's better to pay for an abortion than 18 yrs of child support.[/QUOTE]This is such great advice. Practitioners of the bare-arts should take note.

With my girlfriend SB, we had a little scare a few months ago. I did everything right on my end (pulled out, peed between rrounds, etc). But she was slightly late with her monthlies which freaked her out (and me too to be honest). During this time I found out any accidents she has, she will keep. I respect a woman's right to choose whatever, but obviously I can't have a little JGS floating out there for 18+ years. If there are any accidents, any SB with me needs to be willing to "end" the accident. Anyway, she wasn't pregnant but it was a pretty stressful situation for both particularly because she was going to keep the result of any accident. It made me realize that I need to find out the girl's philosophy on unwanted pregnancies BEFORE I engage in bare activities. If we share similar attitudes, then I just have to reduce my sugar activities for a month while I pay to end the unwanted pregnancy. If our attitudes are different, then I'm basically prebooking a spot on Maury Povich in a few years.

Question for Revvo. When you had to get the Plan B afterward, did you pull out or finish inside her the night before?

Bareback?? Just asking, but really? So many issues!!

Staggered,

Scott

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1827559]Bareback? Just asking, but really? So many issues!

Staggered,

Scott[/QUOTE]First off, I am insane.

Secondly, for me the reduced sensation with condoms makes it difficult for me to perform at my best. With condoms, I often have ED issues. I don't know if I'm allergic to latex or what, but for me there is a night and day difference between sex with condoms and sex without. For me, if I'm spending all this time and money on a SB on allowances, gifts, hotels and etc, it's a buzz kill when the actual sex is mediocre / sub-standard because I'm having issues with the condom. I still use condoms but I'm willing to take the risk going bare if the situation and the girl meet certain standards. I really do envy those of you who can have amazing sex with condoms. It would make this lifestyle a lot easier me if I could.

There is nothing like the sensation of a wet pussy wrapped around your penis. Girls will do anything for money, guys for sex. (some that is)

There are calculated risks in everything worth doing.

Like JG, I pretty much can't get off with a wrapper on after the 1st meet with a SB.

[QUOTE=ChiGuy606; 1827508]May I suggest surgically altering ones genitalia in order to prevent conception.

Certainly there is a week or so of discomfort involved (coinciding with a few weeks of separation from one's sugar-babies) , however the end result is a lifetime of piece of mind!

(Making a mental note to myself to research masturbatory refractory periods, sounds like a hoot!)

-Chi.[/QUOTE]Vasectomy. Best move I ever made

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;1827670]Vasectomy. Best move I ever made[/QUOTE]Almost likewise. Topped only by asking my wife to marry me, and *not* going home early from strip clubbing that one night. The peace of mind it allows can not be undervalued.

[noparse]/[/noparse]z

My general rule of thumb is if I am with a woman who is (or who used to be) accepting cash / gifts / etc in exchange for sex in any shape or form, no matter how 'ATF-like' she is, I keep it covered. Period. The surgically altered genitalia is my plan-B!

She's also most likely putting out for other guys who are also paying her & you never know what else THOSE guys may be doing on the side. (just read any other forum on this site besides this thread *shudder*).

I'm not saying anything can compare to BB, but there are many advances in condoms in the past few years that are a lot better than they used to be. Try out brands advertised as 'lambskin' or Lifestyles 'SKYN' brand, Trojan 'Bareskin', etc. They are not perfect, but much better than they used to be. Also try putting some lube on first before the condom, that makes it much more pleasurable as well.

Besides condoms + a little vitamin V make me perform like an absolute rockstar, and have turned more than one sugar-baby into a non-sugar fuckbuddy just because I can go so long & make them have multiple O's before I'm done.

[QUOTE=Zomby; 1827858]Almost likewise. Topped only by asking my wife to marry me, and *not* going home early from strip clubbing that one night. The peace of mind it allows can not be undervalued.

[noparse]/[/noparse]z[/QUOTE]In L. A. 80% of girls are having babies without worrying about the dad being there. Especially the young ones. Should have done it years ago, I was worried it would affect my performance. Totally not true. And the pain was manageable. One week bad. Three weeks minor. By week five, nothing.

Changed my mind

[QUOTE=John G Smith; 1827647]First off, I am insane.

Secondly, for me the reduced sensation with condoms makes it difficult for me to perform at my best. With condoms, I often have ED issues. I don't know if I'm allergic to latex or what, but for me there is a night and day difference between sex with condoms and sex without. For me, if I'm spending all this time and money on a SB on allowances, gifts, hotels and etc, it's a buzz kill when the actual sex is mediocre / sub-standard because I'm having issues with the condom. I still use condoms but I'm willing to take the risk going bare if the situation and the girl meet certain standards. I really do envy those of you who can have amazing sex with condoms. It would make this lifestyle a lot easier me if I could.[/QUOTE]Before I can actually have intercourse with a new baby, we have to have the "talk". I only go BB. If a baby flat out refuses I have to respect that, but then I never see her again. So a number of m&g's end on the first date with oral or a HJ. I provide my current std report and vasectomy proof via email prior to every m&g. As many girls are equally concerned about birth control.

In this day and age, bb just seems like a game of Russian Roulette, but with your dick. Same potentially lethal outcome, though.

Just not getting it,

Scott

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1828497]In this day and age, bb just seems like a game of Russian Roulette, but with your dick.[/QUOTE]

I agree. But life is all about choosing a course with varying degrees of risk. And this is exactly why I've chosen the sb / sd route. Certainly a lesser amount of risk here than with an AMP / Stripper / Escort.

Spartak,

I certainly understand the issue of risk, and agree that there are levels which we all decide for ourselves we can manage. But this just seems like hubris to me, plain and simple.

Have we so soon forgotten the sad story of our brother Joesparty? In my day, stds were called the gift that keeps on giving, and that seems just as relevant today.

I suppose I will agree to disagree with all you cowboys out there who ride without a saddle, but any buckaroos in the Chicago area, please pm me the profile numbers of your babies so I can steer clear.

Scott