"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

I'm a shallow man. A gorgeous face and flawless body are #1 for me, and I struck gold on SA. Girl has the body of Arianna Grande (pictured) and a face that's a mix of her and Lupe Fuentes (Little Lupe). Flawless golden Spanish skin. The most perfect ass ever. Very generous with her time and very eager to please in bed. Fun to hang out with, too.

It was pretty easy. We talked about meeting for dinner and I offered that I'd bring a small gift for her time. She didn't ask what, but I gave her $75. After that, I told her I'd give her a bigger gift for longer dates. Still no discussion of how much, but I gave her $200 the next time. There was no discussion of sex, but after a couple of longer dates like that, it just happened naturally. From talking to her since about guys on SA she didn't like, I can tell waiting until then to give her any money wouldn't have worked.

I don't fully understand the common advice here to never give a girl any money until you get in their pants. If the thinking is you'll never get in her pants if you give her money for platonic time, that's clearly wrong. If the thinking is that it's a waste of money to pay for platonic time, I think that can be wrong too, because some girls' pants you'll never get into without it. If the girl is hot enough, it's money well-spent. The $475 I spent on platonic dates isn't much against the thousands I've spent on her since and the thousands I expect to in the future.

If you have a system that's working for you, great, but don't be afraid to let your line out a little to catch a big fish just because you read on here not to.

The general advice is sound and is there for a good reason: if girls start thinking all they have to do to get paid is dine at a restaurant, that's all what SA will become in the near future. It encourages scammers and girls to lead guys on with no intentions what so ever to deliver on the FC. It's fine if some girls are not attracted to older guys, they shouldn't act like they are tho and dangle some promise that's never going to happen.

Don't get me wrong, this is still happening in spades on SA. I just hope it's not all what SA becomes known for.

Glad you found something that works for you and glad you reported your experience on here. I still think there is wisdom in the old ways.

[QUOTE=UKnowWho;3869109]I'm a shallow man. A gorgeous face and flawless body are #1 for me, and I struck gold on SA. Girl has the body of Arianna Grande (pictured) and a face that's a mix of her and Lupe Fuentes (Little Lupe). Flawless golden Spanish skin. The most perfect ass ever. Very generous with her time and very eager to please in bed. Fun to hang out with, too.

I don't fully understand the common advice here to never give a girl any money until you get in their pants. If the thinking is you'll never get in her pants if you give her money for platonic time, that's clearly wrong. If the thinking is that it's a waste of money to pay for platonic time, I think that can be wrong too, because some girls' pants you'll never get into without it. If the girl is hot enough, it's money well-spent. The $475 I spent on platonic dates isn't much against the thousands I've spent on her since and the thousands I expect to in the future.

If you have a system that's working for you, great, but don't be afraid to let your line out a little to catch a big fish just because you read on here not to.[/QUOTE]

Guys.

You lead the Nation in the SB discussion, hours of reading enjoyment and very informative.

Does anyone have an opinion on the married SB young or older looking SB scene?

Thanks again,

T. In Southwest Florida.

I'm glad that it has worked out for you. I know there are many unsure girls that need to be convinced to make the move towards intimacy. They can be some of the best experiences.

Unfortunately, for every girl like that there are 5-10 Girls that have no intention of ever being intimate and will lead guys on as long as they can to extract as much money as they can. Guys that suppport these type of girls just perpetuate the problem.

You must be able to read the girls well to know which type you're dealing with. If you are not good at reading people, an older man can be easily played by some of these girls.

[QUOTE=UKnowWho;3869109]I'm a shallow man. A gorgeous face and flawless body are #1 for me, and I struck gold on SA. Girl has the body of Arianna Grande (pictured) and a face that's a mix of her and Lupe Fuentes (Little Lupe). Flawless golden Spanish skin. The most perfect ass ever. Very generous with her time and very eager to please in bed. Fun to hang out with, too.

It was pretty easy. We talked about meeting for dinner and I offered that I'd bring a small gift for her time. She didn't ask what, but I gave her $75. After that, I told her I'd give her a bigger gift for longer dates. Still no discussion of how much, but I gave her $200 the next time. There was no discussion of sex, but after a couple of longer dates like that, it just happened naturally. From talking to her since about guys on SA she didn't like, I can tell waiting until then to give her any money wouldn't have worked.

I don't fully understand the common advice here to never give a girl any money until you get in their pants. If the thinking is you'll never get in her pants if you give her money for platonic time, that's clearly wrong. If the thinking is that it's a waste of money to pay for platonic time, I think that can be wrong too, because some girls' pants you'll never get into without it. If the girl is hot enough, it's money well-spent. The $475 I spent on platonic dates isn't much against the thousands I've spent on her since and the thousands I expect to in the future.

If you have a system that's working for you, great, but don't be afraid to let your line out a little to catch a big fish just because you read on here not to.[/QUOTE]

Saw this young thing a couple of weeks ago. She's down to play. Not as "small" as her pictures would lead you to believe and she's got a lot of piercings which really aren't my thing. But she offered a nice long, non rushed visit to the FC.

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/9074f635-bd44-482c-8557-bfacf55ed399[/URL]

Treat them all well gents.

[QUOTE=UKnowWho;3869109]
I don't fully understand the common advice here to never give a girl any money until you get in their pants. If the thinking is you'll never get in her pants if you give her money for platonic time, that's clearly wrong. If the thinking is that it's a waste of money to pay for platonic time, I think that can be wrong too, because some girls' pants you'll never get into without it. If the girl is hot enough, it's money well-spent. The $475 I spent on platonic dates isn't much against the thousands I've spent on her since and the thousands I expect to in the future. If you have a system that's working for you, great, but don't be afraid to let your line out a little to catch a big fish just because you read on here not to.[/QUOTE]The issue is that there is a great deal of variance in game among the SD population (I. E. Skill and experience level of dating, and social interactions with women, everything from obtaining sex to handling all of the other matters that go with it). The bottom line is that once you've acquired a certain level of skill playing the game, financial support becomes "icing on the cake for them" rather than the end game. The idea here is that you can save yourself a great deal of cash by finding ways to make them genuinely interested in you.

If an SD is investing both a lot of cash AND a lot of effort in creating interest in themselves, they are burning the candle of disservice to themselves at both ends. The advice of no cash until after sex is meant to be general guidance for those who are still in the process of developing their game.

In all my sugaring, I've only had a single M&G that didn't land me in the fuck chamber within two hours of the first in-person meeting, and in that isolated case, I found out later that girl was in a very serious relationship with another girl (and as far as I can tell is lesbian, not even bisexual) -- and even then I wasn't even trying to run game on her because I got the wrong vibe from her right away and decided not to pursue. And, I only go for "top shelf" SB 8's and 9's by most people's standards, no pros / semipros / utrs etc. I'm no Brad Pitt, but because of my track record, I can't imagine why I would be willing to invest the time to "wait" for anyone. None of them have asked me to wait, they fucked me because they WANTED to fuck me. When my radar detects a girl that is only interested in how much she's going to make, I either run game to turn the tables and win genuine interest some other way, or if I deem it to be a lost cause, I simply cut bait and move on to the next.

Maybe some guys actually enjoy anticipation, taking the slow approach to the bedroom, or just generally doing things within their existing comfort zone. To them I say keep doing what they're doing.

The guys who insist on paying the girls what they want when they want however, are really missing out in my opinion. One of the things that turns most women on (especially SBs) the most is a dominant male, so when the female is allowed to be in charge of the terms of the relationship (I. E. When to fuck and what she will get in return), it is not effective as a female aphrodisiac (in fact has the opposite effect for most women -- they like the man to be in charge of it all).

Once a man masters the fine art of maintaining just the right balance between commanding respect while simultaneously providing them the sense of adoration and attention they crave, he has unlocked the secret to keeping their panties wet and has entitled himself to a lifetime buffet of top quality pussy at minimal expenditure. With zero waiting in line, nonetheless.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3870794]The issue is that there is a great deal of variance in game among the SD population (I. E. Skill and experience level of dating, and social interactions with women, everything from obtaining sex to handling all of the other matters that go with it). The bottom line is that once you've acquired a certain level of skill playing the game, financial support becomes "icing on the cake for them" rather than the end game. The idea here is that you can save yourself a great deal of cash by finding ways to make them genuinely interested in you.

If an SD is investing both a lot of cash AND a lot of effort in creating interest in themselves, they are burning the candle of disservice to themselves at both ends. The advice of no cash until after sex is meant to be general guidance for those who are still in the process of developing their game.

In all my sugaring, I've only had a single M&G that didn't land me in the fuck chamber within two hours of the first in-person meeting, and in that isolated case, I found out later that girl was in a very serious relationship with another girl (and as far as I can tell is lesbian, not even bisexual) -- and even then I wasn't even trying to run game on her because I got the wrong vibe from her right away and decided not to pursue. And, I only go for "top shelf" SB 8's and 9's by most people's standards, no pros / semipros / utrs etc. I'm no Brad Pitt, but because of my track record, I can't imagine why I would be willing to invest the time to "wait" for anyone. None of them have asked me to wait, they fucked me because they WANTED to fuck me. When my radar detects a girl that is only interested in how much she's going to make, I either run game to turn the tables and win genuine interest some other way, or if I deem it to be a lost cause, I simply cut bait and move on to the next.

Maybe some guys actually enjoy anticipation, taking the slow approach to the bedroom, or just generally doing things within their existing comfort zone. To them I say keep doing what they're doing.

The guys who insist on paying the girls what they want when they want however, are really missing out in my opinion. One of the things that turns most women on (especially SBs) the most is a dominant male, so when the female is allowed to be in charge of the terms of the relationship (I. E. When to fuck and what she will get in return), it is not effective as a female aphrodisiac (in fact has the opposite effect for most women -- they like the man to be in charge of it all).

Once a man masters the fine art of maintaining just the right balance between commanding respect while simultaneously providing them the sense of adoration and attention they crave, he has unlocked the secret to keeping their panties wet and has entitled himself to a lifetime buffet of top quality pussy at minimal expenditure. With zero waiting in line, nonetheless.[/QUOTE]Let me know when your book on sugaring hit the shelves. Love to have a copy of it.

Or to put it more succinctly than JZ, some of you need to stop acting like chumps and act like men. Stop letting the girls dictate the terms for everything and try leading for a change.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3870794]The issue is that there is a great deal of variance in game among the SD population (I. E. Skill and experience level of dating, and social interactions with women, everything from obtaining sex to handling all of the other matters that go with it). The bottom line is that once you've acquired a certain level of skill playing the game, financial support becomes "icing on the cake for them" rather than the end game. The idea here is that you can save yourself a great deal of cash by finding ways to make them genuinely interested in you.

[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=TopGun9;3870982]Let me know when your book on sugaring hit the shelves. Love to have a copy of it.[/QUOTE]The sum of the posts I've written in this thread probably amounts to a couple of books. LOL. Free of charge too!

[QUOTE=EvilTmp;3871513]Or to put it more succinctly than JZ, some of you need to stop acting like chumps and act like men. Stop letting the girls dictate the terms for everything and try leading for a change.[/QUOTE]That's definitely good advice, and clearly overlaps part of what I wanted to convey, however my overall philosophy on this isn't quite as brief or simple.

For example, I know some folks like the anticipation. Sometimes wanting for something is as much fun as actually receiving it. I once met a Chinese grad student on a civy dating site (her profile indicated an open-minded age range) in a non-sugar related capacity. Around the time I met her, she met a guy her age she fell in love with, but was unhappy with his performance in bed. We went to dinner a couple of times (I never gave or offered sugar, in fact she explicit told me she's not looking for financial help), but the first couple of dates consisted only of kissing and groping -- we kept running into time constraints (either hers or mine) and didn't have time to fuck. One day she calls me clear out of the blue asking if she can come by for sex because she needs it (sadly, I headed off to work and told her I need a rain check). And, when I didn't cancel work to fuck her on the day she asked me to, that only made her want it more. By the time we actually were able to carve out time to fuck, it was extraordinarily intense (maybe even in my top 20 most memorable fucks of all time), because of all the tension that had been building up over the last month or so.

So, I totally get that some guys want to play the anticipation game. Note the key concept in that story with the grad student though -- there was no sugar (only a couple of free meals). My point here is that an SD can still benefit from extended tension build-up, without putting her in control of the situation.

Every SD needs to understand the concept of "intermittent variable rewards". This is a psychological concept used by media / marketing people and apps like social media to get their audience hooked and keep them coming back. One of the keys to making it work is that the reward is neither predictable in its frequency or the same reward each time. Meaning, if you give a girl a set amount of cash on each meet, it's the worst possible strategy for great sex -- there is no hook because lack of variance in the reward.

So paying more, and paying up front, might very well guarantee to get her in bed or win her attention over another potential SD, but it works against the SD in both the long and short run because the reward is too predictable. When a proper hook has been set and she's banging you because she wants to, you can set your own cash gift varying amount, presented as a reward for performance instead of an offer to provide performance, and she will ultimately be happier with it.

If there's any downside to playing at this level, it's that they can be a little TOO hard to get rid of sometimes. This is why I now have a policy of no more than 2 consecutive nights with a single SB. Too hard to get away from them afterward.

So while "man up and don't be a chump" is good advice overall, as SDs we tend to be simple creatures that look for simple solutions. Unfortunately women are extremely complex, as are some of the most effective solutions for dealing with them.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3871714]The sum of the posts I've written in this thread probably amounts to a couple of books. LOL. Free of charge too![/QUOTE]Yes, wealth of information in this thread. It would take months to go back and read from post #1 thoroughly.

A few years ago, I had drinks with a friend who was unhappily married and I told him about sugar dating. He got pretty crazy with it. Long story short, one of his old babies texted him out of the blue the other night to tell him, she had a new place she was living and it's with some roommates. She texted him the neighborhood etc. He shit his pants and started blowing up my phone asking for advise. The neighborhood? Is his and the house is literally 350 ft up the road. GULP. Now this girl is semi-stable, but was borderline transient for a while, out a pathological liar. She wasn't like drama crazy, but he told me he never trusted her. He think she launched a missile across his bow and might want something. Why else would she just blurt out the new neighborhood? She's acting nice so far and he's doesn't even know if she knows for sure. (could just be a small world thing) but the guy is miserable and filled with paranoia looking out his window, waiting for that knock, waiting to see her talking out on the street to his wife, etc. Etc.

He asked me if he should just meet with her and get the elephant out of the room and tell her. See if she is angling for anything or not. I told him if she's going to do anything, she will. Period and paying her off won't matter. Should he confront her? Let it ride, set her straight up front? This girl will get desperate and make his life hell. That is my gut feeling. She also been in and out of trouble with the law and hangs with some bad characters. Just looking for advise to offer him.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;3872225]A few years ago, I had drinks with a friend who was unhappily married and I told him about sugar dating. He got pretty crazy with it. Long story short, one of his old babies texted him out of the blue the other night to tell him, she had a new place she was living and it's with some roommates. She texted him the neighborhood etc. He shit his pants and started blowing up my phone asking for advise. The neighborhood? Is his and the house is literally 350 ft up the road. GULP. Now this girl is semi-stable, but was borderline transient for a while, out a pathological liar. She wasn't like drama crazy, but he told me he never trusted her. He think she launched a missile across his bow and might want something. Why else would she just blurt out the new neighborhood? She's acting nice so far and he's doesn't even know if she knows for sure. (could just be a small world thing) but the guy is miserable and filled with paranoia looking out his window, waiting for that knock, waiting to see her talking out on the street to his wife, etc. Etc.

He asked me if he should just meet with her and get the elephant out of the room and tell her. See if she is angling for anything or not. I told him if she's going to do anything, she will. Period and paying her off won't matter. Should he confront her? Let it ride, set her straight up front? This girl will get desperate and make his life hell. That is my gut feeling. She also been in and out of trouble with the law and hangs with some bad characters. Just looking for advise to offer him.[/QUOTE]It is a small world, that's one reason my primary rule is never to play too close to home. I even go so far as to ask new POTS in other cities where they're from, where they have family, etc. So that I can avoid ones with connections to my area. Once, there was a girl I wanted bad, but she was going to college in a city that's safe for me, but she grew up in a town about 20 minutes from where I live and still went to stay with parents during breaks. It was too risky so I passed. About a year later, I'm 99% I saw her walking into a grocery store (this grocery store was about mid way between her city and mine). I was alone and she didn't see me, but it could have been bad if I had spent time with her and my SO was with me in the grocery store. So, that particular advice is too late for your friend but he should consider it for future reference.

His guess that it's a shot over the bow was the same thing that struck me when I read the situation. Who just all of a sudden texts someone and starts talking about specifics of the new neighborhood they live in? Sounds more like she found out where he lives and is trying to get a reaction out of him. Whenever they do that, it's best to stay completely collected and stoic and never show that it's stressing you even if it is -- poker face.

Anyway my answer here is simple, and in all but the rarest of situations effective. He should just say that since they last spent time together, he has entered an exclusive relationship with someone and wants to give it the best possible shot of working, so he's off the dating market for a while. But close by saying he will definitely give her a call if things fell apart (with no intention of actually doing so, of course). That way if he actually is seen at the grocery store or something with the SO, it's already been per-emptively explained.

The beauty of the "I'm in an exclusive relationship at the moment" is that it totally lets the girl save face, and they even respect this (assuming they believe you) and usually respond with something like "Wow, that's great I hope it all works out for you".

Sorry for the blasphemy, but I felt a shout out to the big guy was warranted. I've been on SA for a couple of years but never got fully invested in it until about the last 9 or 10 months. I recently made a good connection with a lady in her early 30's who has turned into a keeper.

We went on a couple of dinner dates, where I only paid for the dinner. I think she was feeling me out to make sure I was mentally stable, and that we had some kind of connection. Third date, she came back to my place and fucked me righteously.

The next date finished with an even more righteous fuck.

No clock watching. She seems agreeable to everything thus far. She hangs out with me for several hours at a time, and I'm hittin' it for much less than GPS rates. A hot brunette with a strippers body.

For those who haven't found that special SB, hang in there and keep plugging away.

Once again, God bless Sugar dating.

So how do you handle when the girl wants to know what allowance is being offered when she asks it through a message on SA, never even met her yet. Many of them will do this because I tell some straight up that I'm not into dinners and dating, just want to go to the fun and bed from the get go. These girls I'm talking about are not pros or utr's either, just sb types who are willing to go straight to the sack even before a public meet up.