General Reports

[QUOTE=Opus1984;6519727]I see references from time to time in reviews about providers doing quick LEO checks. Which causes me to ask 2 things:

- What have you been subjected to for a LEO check?

- Have you ever done a LEO check on a provider?

I see providers put "no LEO" in their ads and ask via text to confirm that you're not law enforcement. But that doesn't strike me as something that would hold up. I was out of state last year and had a provider lift up her shirt and asked me to feel her up so that she knew I wasn't Uncle LEO. I guess in that state cops aren't supposed to touch.

But what about in Florida? Bueller? Anyone?[/QUOTE]Some mongers and providers are under the mistaken impression that these LEO checks are going to save them in the event of a sting. That's not exactly the case. If you look through arrest reports when Sheriff Grady does one of his big stings, you will see several girls or Johns arrested for "lewd and lascivious acts. " This is when they did the LEO check and showing your private parts to an undercover earns you that charge. IDK if that charge is a lighter charge than solicitation, or not.

If you are ever caught up in a sting, remember that the most important thing for you to do is to shut your mouth. You have the right to an attorney present whenever you answer any LEO's questions. There are stories on this great Forum of mongers that shut their mouth and refused to answer any questions, then being let go after an hour of fruitless interrogation. Those stories are from years ago but they are here.

Personally, I would go ahead and due the LEO check when seeing a girl for the first time and she's not reviewed.

And what would your LEO check be?

[QUOTE=Vino7373;6519853]Some mongers and providers are under the mistaken impression that these LEO checks are going to save them in the event of a sting. That's not exactly the case. If you look through arrest reports when Sheriff Grady does one of his big stings, you will see several girls or Johns arrested for "lewd and lascivious acts. " This is when they did the LEO check and showing your private parts to an undercover earns you that charge. IDK if that charge is a lighter charge than solicitation, or not.

If you are ever caught up in a sting, remember that the most important thing for you to do is to shut your mouth. You have the right to an attorney present whenever you answer any LEO's questions. There are stories on this great Forum of mongers that shut their mouth and refused to answer any questions, then being let go after an hour of fruitless interrogation. Those stories are from years ago but they are here.

Personally, I would go ahead and due the LEO check when seeing a girl for the first time and she's not reviewed.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Opus1984;6519727]I see references from time to time in reviews about providers doing quick LEO checks. Which causes me to ask 2 things:

- What have you been subjected to for a LEO check?

- Have you ever done a LEO check on a provider?

I see providers put "no LEO" in their ads and ask via text to confirm that you're not law enforcement. But that doesn't strike me as something that would hold up. I was out of state last year and had a provider lift up her shirt and asked me to feel her up so that she knew I wasn't Uncle LEO. I guess in that state cops aren't supposed to touch.

But what about in Florida? Bueller? Anyone?[/QUOTE]As some responses have suggested, the "LEO check" is horribly misguided. The provider putting "no LEO" in her ad gains nothing, that does not prevent LE from contacting her and, potentially, arresting her. Similarly, a UC can say he, or she, isn't LE, when, of course, they are LE. An arrest would likely happen there as well. Even once the two individuals are together, one can ask for an LEO check, or even offer an LEO check of their own. Does not mean neither can be arrested. Cops can, and do, lie. I believe I previously mentioned a situation where I have personal knowledge of the monger showing up for what he thought was an incall with a provider, he entered the room, raised his arms and went towards the provider, as if to grab her breasts to show he wasn't LE. As soon as he did, other officers came from the adjoining room and placed him under arrest. All that said, I'll admit I "play along" with the LEO check myself. If the provider asks if I'm LE, I'll state that I am not and I'll ask the same of her. While I realize it's meaningless, a lot of provider seem to think it's legitimate. It seems smarter to just let them think they're actually accomplishing something, I figure if I point out that it does them no good, they'll just get angry or suspicious, no benefit in that.

[QUOTE=VincentGambini;6520079]As some responses have suggested, the "LEO check" is horribly misguided. The provider putting "no LEO" in her ad gains nothing, that does not prevent LE from contacting her and, potentially, arresting her. Similarly, a UC can say he, or she, isn't LE, when, of course, they are LE. An arrest would likely happen there as well. Even once the two individuals are together, one can ask for an LEO check, or even offer an LEO check of their own. Does not mean neither can be arrested. Cops can, and do, lie. I believe I previously mentioned a situation where I have personal knowledge of the monger showing up for what he thought was an incall with a provider, he entered the room, raised his arms and went towards the provider, as if to grab her breasts to show he wasn't LE. As soon as he did, other officers came from the adjoining room and placed him under arrest. All that said, I'll admit I "play along" with the LEO check myself. If the provider asks if I'm LE, I'll state that I am not and I'll ask the same of her. While I realize it's meaningless, a lot of provider seem to think it's legitimate. It seems smarter to just let them think they're actually accomplishing something, I figure if I point out that it does them no good, they'll just get angry or suspicious, no benefit in that.[/QUOTE]I am not an attorney, but if you think carefully about it then there are a lot of little details you can get right that will make it a lot more difficult for them to prosecute you in the event that you walk into a sting.

1) They will probably try to get you to incriminate yourself over the phone before you ever show up. If a girl ever overtly asks you about sexual acts or paying for sex over the phone, then that is a huge red flag and you should just stop right there. It's also why when you call or text you should deliberately use non-sexual language like "I want to make an appointment" because it doesn't imply anything of a sexual nature.

2) When the girl lets you into her place, don't be the one who initiates the LE check. Walk in, then turn around and face her as she is closing the door. Just stand there confidently and look at her like you're expecting something. What should happen is she moves in and offers a kiss, you accept and grab a handful of her ass, and you're good to go. A cop will never initiate to touch you because that is 100% against the rules for them. Note if you're seeing girls who have a shitty attitude and / or dumb and don't know good opsec, then this is trickier because a lot of times they won't initiate either.

3) Bring the cash in an unsealed envelope and never hand it to her directly. Just place the envelope somewhere in clear view and don't mention it or draw her attention to it. A cop will try to get you to admit or acknowledge that it's full of money, so if she says anything of that nature then ignore it.

4) The last thing to watch out for is a cop will try to initiate some kind of sexual conversation once you are there in person to further incriminate you. But remember, they can't touch, they can only talk. If she's intentionally keeping her distance and asking you some overtly sexual stuff or trying to get you to acknowledge that you are there to pay for sex, then just say something like "I don't know what you are talking about" or just STFU and leave.

Keep in mind if you show up to a sting you are probably going to be detained regardless, but if you did everything right and exercise your right to remain silent then they actually don't have much on you. Of course everyone knows why you are there, but remember in court it's not what you know, it's what you can prove. A good defense lawyer will ask the cop: Did he ever ask you for sex? Did he say he was there to have sex? Did he expose himself to you? Did he try to initiate sexual contact with you? Did he offer to pay you for sex? Did he hand you money? If you followed the steps above, then the answer to all of these questions is no, and that can begin to cast a reasonable doubt on what really happened.

Cops know this too, which is why if you don't fuck up and all they have on you is that you showed up, then they might just let you go without charges because it would be too difficult to prosecute. It probably depends on the cop and the though. But even if they charge you, you've got a much better chance of beating it if you avoid talking or acting in an incriminating way.

I would be more than happy to be corrected if there any legit attorneys who can chime in, but I am pretty sure this approach is sound.

Just curious. Is there a known reddit thread or forum like USASG where the providers can review us mongers, blacklist us, and post pictures of us as well?

[QUOTE=AsianDayDream;6521291]Just curious. Is there a known reddit thread or forum like USASG where the providers can review us mongers, blacklist us, and post pictures of us as well?[/QUOTE]Yes I believe there is. Been there for years.

[QUOTE=AsianDayDream;6521291]Just curious. Is there a known reddit thread or forum like USASG where the providers can review us mongers, blacklist us, and post pictures of us as well?[/QUOTE]There is, but I'm not going to reveal the address (mostly because I forgot the exact name LOL). I had a girl I was close to walk me thru it once. It's a simple, crappy site that only allows users to cross check a telephone number. I checked my number for giggles and nothing came up. We checked a few other regulars numbers and some basic, not too useful information came up. Annoying habits, general race etc. Nothing to be worried about.

[QUOTE=StyleNProfile;6520431]I am not an attorney, but if you think carefully about it then there are a lot of little details you can get right that will make it a lot more difficult for them to prosecute you in the event that you walk into a sting.

1) They will probably try to get you to incriminate yourself over the phone before you ever show up. If a girl ever overtly asks you about sexual acts or paying for sex over the phone, then that is a huge red flag and you should just stop right there. It's also why when you call or text you should deliberately use non-sexual language like "I want to make an appointment" because it doesn't imply anything of a sexual nature.

2) When the girl lets you into her place, don't be the one who initiates the LE check. Walk in, then turn around and face her as she is closing the door. Just stand there confidently and look at her like you're expecting something. What should happen is she moves in and offers a kiss, you accept and grab a handful of her ass, and you're good to go. A cop will never initiate to touch you because that is 100% against the rules for them. Note if you're seeing girls who have a shitty attitude and / or dumb and don't know good opsec, then this is trickier because a lot of times they won't initiate either.

3) Bring the cash in an unsealed envelope and never hand it to her directly. Just place the envelope somewhere in clear view and don't mention it or draw her attention to it. A cop will try to get you to admit or acknowledge that it's full of money, so if she says anything of that nature then ignore it.

4) The last thing to watch out for is a cop will try to initiate some kind of sexual conversation once you are there in person to further incriminate you. But remember, they can't touch, they can only talk. If she's intentionally keeping her distance and asking you some overtly sexual stuff or trying to get you to acknowledge that you are there to pay for sex, then just say something like "I don't know what you are talking about" or just STFU and leave.

Keep in mind if you show up to a sting you are probably going to be detained regardless, but if you did everything right and exercise your right to remain silent then they actually don't have much on you. Of course everyone knows why you are there, but remember in court it's not what you know, it's what you can prove. A good defense lawyer will ask the cop: Did he ever ask you for sex? Did he say he was there to have sex? Did he expose himself to you? Did he try to initiate sexual contact with you? Did he offer to pay you for sex? Did he hand you money? If you followed the steps above, then the answer to all of these questions is no, and that can begin to cast a reasonable doubt on what really happened.

Cops know this too, which is why if you don't fuck up and all they have on you is that you showed up, then they might just let you go without charges because it would be too difficult to prosecute. It probably depends on the cop and the though. But even if they charge you, you've got a much better chance of beating it if you avoid talking or acting in an incriminating way.

I would be more than happy to be corrected if there any legit attorneys who can chime in, but I am pretty sure this approach is sound.[/QUOTE]Taking it one point at a time:

1. LE won't mention sexual acts either, they'll be more passive than that, comments such as taking a shower together, laying in bed together, or other such things that might lead to sexual activity, but without directly mentioning sexual activity. Anything more than that and entrapment issues would crop up.

2. A UC LE won't "move in and offer a kiss" to you. She certainly might approach, might touch your arm or some other such innocuous action, but nothing as overt as a kiss. As I detailed in the earlier post, there is no such thing as a legitimate LE check. If you've gotten to the point of being face-to-face in a hotel room or whatever, the odds of you being arrested are extremely high, regardless of what happens next.

3. While there certainly is no harm in being discrete with the cash, in and of itself, that will almost certainly not prevent you from being arrested. As I stated in number 2, if you've gotten that far, it's damn probable you will be arrested, again, regardless of anything else.

4. This bit of advice would be better applied to the initial discussion, well before ever arriving. If there is discussion of a sexual nature, anything that includes money being exchanged, end the conversation and move on. I know a lot of mongers want to know precisely what they'll be getting and for what amount of money. From my perspective, that's a horrible idea, that's the sort of thing that will get arrested. Personally, I'm only visiting ladies that have been reviewed and, from those reviews, I already know what is being offered and for what amount of donation. As stated above, if you're to the point of being right in front of the UC, get ready for the bracelets and a ride to the uncle's hotel.

Yes, if you show up at a sting, you're almost certainly being detained. Actually, you're almost certainly being more than detained, you're being arrested. While it's true that, with a lack of solid evidence, the charges might be reduced or dismissed, LE would rather book you then so as to avoid someone blowing the operation. Plus, due to the sensitive, possibly embarrassing, nature of the charges, many people will plea out just to end it as quickly and quietly as possible, LE knows this too. Trust me, I've seen solid defense cases where the defendant just plead out rather than vigorously fight the allegations.

Sites such as these, sites that offer a wealth of information on providers, these are excellent resources and, along with being smart on how you handle yourself, will go a long way in insuring you avoid that visit to the uncle's place. That said, if you're wanting to be 100% safe, the only way to do that is to retire from the hobby.

Gentlemen, you have exceeded my expectations. Thanks for your contributions. Great stuff for everyone on the forum.

Play safe.

[QUOTE=VincentGambini;6521643]Taking it one point at a time:

1. LE won't mention sexual acts either, they'll be more passive than that, comments such as taking a shower together, laying in bed together, or other such things that might lead to sexual activity, but without directly mentioning sexual activity. Anything more than that and entrapment issues would crop up.

2. A UC LE won't "move in and offer a kiss" to you. She certainly might approach, might touch your arm or some other such innocuous action, but nothing as overt as a kiss. As I detailed in the earlier post, there is no such thing as a legitimate LE check. If you've gotten to the point of being face-to-face in a hotel room or whatever, the odds of you being arrested are extremely high, regardless of what happens next.

3. While there certainly is no harm in being discrete with the cash, in and of itself, that will almost certainly not prevent you from being arrested. As I stated in number 2, if you've gotten that far, it's damn probable you will be arrested, again, regardless of anything else.

4. This bit of advice would be better applied to the initial discussion, well before ever arriving. If there is discussion of a sexual nature, anything that includes money being exchanged, end the conversation and move on. I know a lot of mongers want to know precisely what they'll be getting and for what amount of money. From my perspective, that's a horrible idea, that's the sort of thing that will get arrested. Personally, I'm only visiting ladies that have been reviewed and, from those reviews, I already know what is being offered and for what amount of donation. As stated above, if you're to the point of being right in front of the UC, get ready for the bracelets and a ride to the uncle's hotel.

Yes, if you show up at a sting, you're almost certainly being detained. Actually, you're almost certainly being more than detained, you're being arrested. While it's true that, with a lack of solid evidence, the charges might be reduced or dismissed, LE would rather book you then so as to avoid someone blowing the operation. Plus, due to the sensitive, possibly embarrassing, nature of the charges, many people will plea out just to end it as quickly and quietly as possible, LE knows this too. Trust me, I've seen solid defense cases where the defendant just plead out rather than vigorously fight the allegations.

Sites such as these, sites that offer a wealth of information on providers, these are excellent resources and, along with being smart on how you handle yourself, will go a long way in insuring you avoid that visit to the uncle's place. That said, if you're wanting to be 100% safe, the only way to do that is to retire from the hobby.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Opus1984;6519906]And what would your LEO check be?[/QUOTE]Often LEO checks, crotch grab. Or, show your junk.

I have to laugh when a provider asks if I am LEO. Cops can legally lie. Or can they?

Here is some interesting reading of cases where cops lied and it was legal and some where it was not:

[URL]https://www.police1.com/legal/articles/case-law-on-police-deception-VuP9C033StWR83T4/[/URL]

But if it makes the girl feel good, I am fine with it.

What is my LEO check? Only see provider verified by one of you guys (not all of you guys, sorry) and don't talk money. Fuckin' a ho is not illegal. Paying a ho (or even offering a girl money) is.

Which brings me to a point.

I was wondering if cops ever do the deep while on duty. I found countless accounts of guy cops fuckin' straight and gay, but not one single time did a lady cop posing as a ho fucked a customer. Go figure.

Also, my second point, you may be on the right side of the law but being arrested for solicitation (even if you get off) kinda sucks and will pretty much ruin your life.

Play safe,

C3.

[QUOTE=AsianDayDream;6521291]Just curious. Is there a known reddit thread or forum like USASG where the providers can review us mongers, blacklist us, and post pictures of us as well?[/QUOTE]There is. Dahlia once told with me that her circle of friends share a lot with each other. Now, granted, that is a pretty high end group. She didn't say how they share, but hinted it was some on-line way.

I am on a mailing list with a girl from Tampa. There is a sewing circle there that routinely puts on parties, charging guys $100 entry fee and ladies are free. Even though I have been on their list for years I have never gone to one of their parties (just never met my schedule), but they are usually themed to some holiday. Their attitude is, the party isn't illegal and if people talk in the corner and hook up, they are good with it. I know guys require verification (I got verified way back when) and I can only assume a girls in the party has to be known, to.

Play safe,

C3.

We have Threads for the cuddlers and for non-AMP massage providers, I am wondering if some of you have had experience with Secret Benefit Women and should we have a new thread devoted to them?

[QUOTE=Camera3;6522233]Often LEO checks, crotch grab. Or, show your junk.

I have to laugh when a provider asks if I am LEO. Cops can legally lie. Or can they?

Here is some interesting reading of cases where cops lied and it was legal and some where it was not:

[URL]https://www.police1.com/legal/articles/case-law-on-police-deception-VuP9C033StWR83T4/[/URL]

But if it makes the girl feel good, I am fine with it.

What is my LEO check? Only see provider verified by one of you guys (not all of you guys, sorry) and don't talk money. Fuckin' a ho is not illegal. Paying a ho (or even offering a girl money) is.

Which brings me to a point.

I was wondering if cops ever do the deep while on duty. I found countless accounts of guy cops fuckin' straight and gay, but not one single time did a lady cop posing as a ho fucked a customer. Go figure.

Also, my second point, you may be on the right side of the law but being arrested for solicitation (even if you get off) kinda sucks and will pretty much ruin your life.

Play safe,

C3.[/QUOTE]Embarrassingly, I was arrested in a sting 13 years ago in Osceola Co. The girl I went to see had a ton of legit reviews and posted on the .Coms along as USA when they had provider ads. She was working off some jail time by working as a covered informant. Based on her ads and reviews I didn't need any additional information prior to seeing her. I showed up to the hotel and when I entered the room she was wearing a sweat shirt and jeans absolutely showing no skin. She asked me to touch her to prove I wasn't LEO. I touched her tit, and immediately the guys wearing masks came through the door from the adjoining room. We never discussed money, displayed money or said anything sexual. I was arrested and charged with solicitation. These stings aren't really designed to get jail time out of the hobbyists, their goal is to embarrass the shit out of us. I hired a lawyer, paid a hefty retainer and before he could do anything the charges were dropped. Other than not showing up to the appointment, I don't think there is anything we can do to prevent from being arrested in sting operations. If you show up you are going to jail. Just my $0.02.

That's a lot of resources to use just to embarrass someone. Odds are you were clean in other areas of your life and the cops couldn't charge you with drug possession, illegal firearms possession or hold you for an outstanding warrant. And they probably netted more than you that day. But thank you for sharing this.

[QUOTE=Todds57;6522770]Embarrassingly, I was arrested in a sting 13 years ago in Osceola Co. The girl I went to see had a ton of legit reviews and posted on the .Coms along as USA when they had provider ads. She was working off some jail time by working as a covered informant. Based on her ads and reviews I didn't need any additional information prior to seeing her. I showed up to the hotel and when I entered the room she was wearing a sweat shirt and jeans absolutely showing no skin. She asked me to touch her to prove I wasn't LEO. I touched her tit, and immediately the guys wearing masks came through the door from the adjoining room. We never discussed money, displayed money or said anything sexual. I was arrested and charged with solicitation. These stings aren't really designed to get jail time out of the hobbyists, their goal is to embarrass the shit out of us. I hired a lawyer, paid a hefty retainer and before he could do anything the charges were dropped. Other than not showing up to the appointment, I don't think there is anything we can do to prevent from being arrested in sting operations. If you show up you are going to jail. Just my $0.02.[/QUOTE]

You lawyered up and that is the smartest move.

They will go away because they are looking for the quickest easiest route to a conviction!

[QUOTE=Todds57;6522770]Embarrassingly, I was arrested in a sting 13 years ago in Osceola Co. The girl I went to see had a ton of legit reviews and posted on the .Coms along as USA when they had provider ads. She was working off some jail time by working as a covered informant. Based on her ads and reviews I didn't need any additional information prior to seeing her. I showed up to the hotel and when I entered the room she was wearing a sweat shirt and jeans absolutely showing no skin. She asked me to touch her to prove I wasn't LEO. I touched her tit, and immediately the guys wearing masks came through the door from the adjoining room. We never discussed money, displayed money or said anything sexual. I was arrested and charged with solicitation. These stings aren't really designed to get jail time out of the hobbyists, their goal is to embarrass the shit out of us. I hired a lawyer, paid a hefty retainer and before he could do anything the charges were dropped. Other than not showing up to the appointment, I don't think there is anything we can do to prevent from being arrested in sting operations. If you show up you are going to jail. Just my $0.02.[/QUOTE]