"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Just trying to get back into posting thought I'd leave a few dreams.

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/48e49372-25dc-fcb7-cdec-fed9049f99b8[/URL]

In my dream, I paid an allowance of 200. I definitely overpaid. I would avoid at all costs. Pictures are somewhat accurate although she's heavier now. Looks are maybe 4/10. Skills are 1/10 probably the worst I've had since fumbling around in a car in high school. But as always YMMV.

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/4d2b81c1-48d5-4c3e-ab8f-4f439a6477fd[/URL]

I've dreamed of her a couple of times. She's always freshly showered and sociable. Her looks are as depicted. Not full GFE. She's a go to if bored. Damage is between like 100-140 depending. Menu is limited.

I have more. I don't share contact info unless it's with a senior member or unless you have something worthwhile to offer.

[QUOTE=CoolPix;3817764]I broke this golden rule a month ago when I got lazy and was thinking with the little head instead of the big noggin. I made the mistake of leaving the hotel receipt on the table in the room and my SB found it and took a picture of it. Fortunately, I didn't use my real address but did have my last name and personal cell number and the ***** tried to shake me down. I am so old enough to know better but I got careless. Let my stupidity be a lesson to the brotherhood.

Of course, most of you are smart enough to already know this.[/QUOTE]Extortion and or blackmail are felonies. When this happens, be calm and do the following steps. Ge them talking, get them to get you their demands and clearly state their threat. Then agree to meet them in person, to, "pay them off" when you meet in person, record them on your phone, preferably with some video if you can pull it off, or hidden cameras. After they are done describing their devious little plan, show them everything you got saved and then show them the laws. Explain that she had five minutes to take back everything, or, you, yourself are going straight to the police, where she will face extortion charges that can carry up to five years in the slammer.

I do not respond to threats, EVER. Threaten me, and it's on, I will not back down. I treat every girl I see right and am good to them all, but if they think they are going to play me like this, they are sadly mistaken. A lot of these early 20-somethings think they are not true adults and play the innocent act, thinking because you're an older man, they can take you down and they are justified. Send them back to reality, that they are adults and can face legal actions that will cost them dearly just like anyone else.

Two cents!

[QUOTE=CoolPix;3817612]Anybody have a go with this chick? She's asking for a M&G and I'm intrigued.

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/57d810cc-432a-49c1-b470-acf4271fcb08[/URL][/QUOTE]I had a great LT arrangement with her I ended not because of anything bad. She is a lot of fun, has her own job and wants LT arrangements, no short term stuff. No drama. Smart, mature and sexy. She'll not ask for anything upfront and leaves the gift up to you. It's your time to shine. $$$ ensured I saw her again. Treat her right and it will be worth it. 30 plus is the way to go.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;3818327]Extortion and or blackmail are felonies. When this happens, be calm and do the following steps. Ge them talking, get them to get you their demands and clearly state their threat. Then agree to meet them in person, to, "pay them off" when you meet in person, record them on your phone, preferably with some video if you can pull it off, or hidden cameras. After they are done describing their devious little plan, show them everything you got saved and then show them the laws. Explain that she had five minutes to take back everything, or, you, yourself are going straight to the police, where she will face extortion charges that can carry up to five years in the slammer.

I do not respond to threats, EVER. Threaten me, and it's on, I will not back down. I treat every girl I see right and am good to them all, but if they think they are going to play me like this, they are sadly mistaken. A lot of these early 20-somethings think they are not true adults and play the innocent act, thinking because you're an older man, they can take you down and they are justified. Send them back to reality, that they are adults and can face legal actions that will cost them dearly just like anyone else.

Two cents![/QUOTE]A good two cents at that. I don't take no shit in business, I'm certainly not going to let some youngster play me. Nicest guy in the world. But do not f**k with me. I will take you down. I'm seeing one now that has a kid, her estranged baby daddy is starting to get suspicious. I've already got his info, just so happens he lives in a town I know everyone from the public works guys to the mayor. One phone call. BOOM!

[QUOTE=CoolPix;3817764]I broke this golden rule a month ago when I got lazy and was thinking with the little head instead of the big noggin. I made the mistake of leaving the hotel receipt on the table in the room and my SB found it and took a picture of it. Fortunately, I didn't use my real address but did have my last name and personal cell number and the ***** tried to shake me down. I am so old enough to know better but I got careless. Let my stupidity be a lesson to the brotherhood. Of course, most of you are smart enough to already know this.[/QUOTE]Anonymity is one of those things you have to be always on guard about, and it's not easy to protect it perfectly.

One of the stupidest things I ever did was hand one of them my phone to connect spotify to a bluetooth speaker. Prior to that I never really thought about the fact that my real name was displayed on the settings menu -- one of those things I see so often I forget its there. Oops should have changed that long ago. From that part of the story on, it's just damage control and every next move is designed to never result in any "situation". She kept texting me for 6 months after that asking when I would see her again, I kept making excuses but making sure I never gave her reason to go digging. Finally told her I'd gotten involved with someone exclusively and she left me alone after that.

And of course, I changed the name on my phone after that.

I don't see the SA profile search text box. Is it me or for everyone? Very difficult to search profile.

[QUOTE=RobHere;3819649]I don't see the SA profile search text box. Is it me or for everyone? Very difficult to search profile.[/QUOTE]Now that you mention it, it was there a day or so ago because I used it to look up a specific name. Now I don't see it. Maybe it's another thing you need to upgrade to use now. (I haven't upgraded).

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3814482]I am surprised about the reports here of guys messaging SA girls about their sugar, getting back big numbers, and quitting on them. What do you expect when you are negotiating online? There could be all kinds of problems with you she doesn't see until you meet, so she is going to take that into account in pricing. You are certainly going to get her top dollar rate. I NEVER do this. I find that girls who can be pretty pliant in person become bulldogs online. I think this is something basic to human nature when you put someone behind the wall of the internet. Anyway, I only discuss the sugar w / a POT in person / face-to-face. If you need negotiating tips, watch some reality TV show like Pawn Stars or American Pickers. If they have the person in front of them, and he turns out to be nice, and safe, and somewhat attractive, and maybe like their dad's friend who they thought was hot in high school, they are going to be unwilling to let a bird in the hand escape for the sake of a few extra dollars.

I had a M&G today with a 27 YO med student with a smoking hot body, BIG natural tits. She is also a bit of a pleaser and refused all my attempts to get her to name her figure. They fear rejection too, and I think it is a good strategy to first ask them what they *need. * Don't get into 'want', that's a loser. Anyway, I proposed that the first time would be extra sugar, just to be sure we both liked the experience, and we would negotiate an allowance (lower per meet) after that. Given her reluctance to name her price, I finally threw out 300, which she immediately accepted. Too bad, I wish I had offered even lower, but still this is an excellent rate for a hot young SB in a high-price market, southern California.[/QUOTE]I have worked online for a living for over 15 years and very rarely meet my clients, even ones I have had for years. So I do all my negotiating online with the girls. I really don't have time for M&G's. And if I make the time they still know what the allowance will be beforehand. Even knowing that what you say is true, as my in person presentations are always good. It's just a time management issue. Plus I can get turned down online without a care in the word. But getting burned face-to-face is another matter. Also I can negotiate with up 5 girls a day online. I would be lucky to do that once a week in person. But whatever works, works.

[QUOTE=CantWinLosin;3805872][URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/a7469bfb-d67c-4865-8c72-eae3c90bf4ed[/URL]

We've exchanged msgs. She seems legit, pretty up-front about her situation and expectations, but gut says something's not quite right, can't figure it out, so looking for other input. What am I missing?[/QUOTE]Her face pic? . but with a body like that, it might not matter.

Let me add another perspective to this topic. I agree personally for me, negotiating in person with potential SBs is a much batter option than online or through text and favors me to get a better deal. Many girls told me at our first meet they felt safe around me and I come across as a trustable guy which works in my favor. But, in practice, convincing a girl for a M&G has become much more difficult lately. I try to remain anonymous, and don't have profile pics and only send pics by texts or e-mail after reasonable conversation to build trust. Even after that I don't send face pics. I don't pay for M&G (except for gas money), and allowance is given only after we head to FC, panties hit the floor and stay on the floor for at least two hours. (no money upfront). So the time investment for M&G from the girls point view comes with a risk. In my experience, most girls ask for what they could expect allowance-wise before they meet. At first, I used to dodge the question, and try to get them to meet and discuss in person. Most of them dropped out at that stage when I insisted not talk about allowance in advance, although very few agreed to meet reluctantly. The few I met were actually not of my taste and very desperate ones. I can imagine there are lots of guys in SA talking a good game with no funds for sugar, girls only realize that after they meet. So, I understand girls point of view. Then I changed my tactics and if they insist before meet, I tell them my minimum which is 200, and give them a range and let them know the actual number depends on how we two connect, what we do and how long we hang out, giving them the poption to discuss further once we meet. My success rate for getting them to agree for M&G increased substantially with that answer. It gives them a minimum number to be comfortable with and if they can convince me, the possibility of a higher allowance. I can tell you honestly, I would not have met some fine girls that I had great time with if I insisted on the "no discussion on allowance before meet" policy. At the end I don't loose anything. My minimum allowance is 200 anyway, and in rare cases, I have given as much as 500. In general, my average actual allowance per meet is 250, and I have met very fine girls and with some of them I have ongoing dates. Different tactics work for different people. I don't approach sugar bowl as a game where you win or loose (or get ripped off). If I get a good experience that I get satisfaction and in turn if the girl gets a reasonable deal out of that, that's all matters. The same girl may ask for different allowance from different guys for the same experience. Actually it doesn't bother me, what matters to me is if I was happy with my experience. The scammers who want funds with no sugar given in return, I try to weed them out, and when I sniff something wrong, I cut them off early with minimum loss, and move on to the next.

Stay Safe.

Dr. S.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;3819791]I have worked online for a living for over 15 years and very rarely meet my clients, even ones I have had for years. So I do all my negotiating online with the girls. I really don't have time for M&G's. And if I make the time they still know what the allowance will be beforehand. Even knowing that what you say is true, as my in person presentations are always good. It's just a time management issue. Plus I can get turned down online without a care in the word. But getting burned face-to-face is another matter. Also I can negotiate with up 5 girls a day online. I would be lucky to do that once a week in person. But whatever works, works.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3782845]Start with the Index and FAQ. However, I highly recommend looking at it as an overall glimpse into the perspective of various SDs, and not so much a how-to guide to be followed to the letter. Read it and try to develop your own style. I've written a lot about what works for me, but my game hinges on exercise as a mandatory component of it, and I would have diminished results due to lower T levels and sexual performance if I stopped exercising and let myself go, I'm sure.

HWG's "stepped game plan", to the best of my knowledge, hinged on sending out pre-typed marketing blasts to lots of girls offering specific amounts of money. I don't know if people still do this, but I do know SA now detects this "form letter" approach to mails and some members have reported account suspension over these marketing blasts. Further more, this technique only works with pros, a real SB will get creeped out by offers for money in the first message -- you have to be much smoother than this if you want to land a real SB. What's more, increasingly, it's a very bad idea to make any sort of monetary offer for sex over digital communications, and it not only puts the hobby in jeopardy, and you at legal risk, but it draws more pros to SA and makes it harder to find a real SB. So much so, that if you read some of the SB boards in other cities, you'll find a lot of sugaring noobs don't even know the difference between an SB and a utr/pro.[/QUOTE]To the best of your knowledge? Please. I think this is what is now commonly referred to as Fake News. lol.. If you want to know the facts just ask.. I see very little has changed here in the last few years. I'll check back in a few more. So bye for now.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;3819933]To the best of your knowledge? Please. I think this is what is now commonly referred to as Fake News. lol.. If you want to know the facts just ask.. I see very little has changed here in the last few years. I'll check back in a few more. So bye for now.[/QUOTE]I do think it is now the case, in the age of FOSTA, that SA is policing messages, and if there is too much specificity about $ amounts and particular details, rather than for the nebulous 'arrangement', you can get banned from the site. I know, I have been banned for even much milder behavior. You can get back on of course, you just have to use a new email address. That's a pain if you have something ingrained in your memory and / or have paid for. Also, take a look at the grounds under which someone can be 'reported' - even general 'escort talk' is against the terms of service.

So, I try to move girls off to text etc. Quickly. I do not make a practice of sending photos by text, then she has them forever. I prefer letting her see them on the site, then rescinding permission. Yes, she could download them while they are available, if she's really thinking ahead. I have a SO, it's a big worry for me, but even if you are single, if someone bad gets your photo and your number, you can expect it to show up on an extortion site.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3820039]I do not make a practice of sending photos by text, then she has them forever. I prefer letting her see them on the site, then rescinding permission. Yes, she could download them while they are available, if she's really thinking ahead. I have a SO, it's a big worry for me, but even if you are single, if someone bad gets your photo and your number, you can expect it to show up on an extortion site.[/QUOTE]I, too, worry a lot about the photo thing and the extortion sites. That shit is evil and forever, and there are people out there who just enjoy screwing up guy's lives.

My answer to that is that I use a candid shot of a former d-list (d-list not in a trashy way, but in a not-currently-active way) celebrity who people have told me is my "doppleganger", and I have blurred the face slightly. I explain in my profile that because of my work I am very privacy conscious, and in general a private and discreet person. I think while a POT SB might prefer to see a clear photo, she is comforted a bit by my attention to discretion, and the two are a wash. I also artfully dodge the request for additional photos saying that she can see the real me over coffee.

Of course, I use a burner phone as well, and a fake name. I also tell women that I don't use facebook, and explain that I'm a busy executive and I don't have time for such trivial distractions. Much more important things going on in my life. Which is true... I don't Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Kik or any of the other silly social media junk.

I feel this thwarts the extortion site crowd. It's no fun to post a blurry face pic on an extortion site, and the burner number can easily be abandoned.

[QUOTE=Kwagmire;3820258]I, too, worry a lot about the photo thing and the extortion sites. That shit is evil and forever, and there are people out there who just enjoy screwing up guy's lives.


Of course, I use a burner phone as well, and a fake name. I also tell women that I don't use facebook, and explain that I'm a busy executive and I don't have time for such trivial distractions. Much more important things going on in my life. Which is true... I don't Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Kik or any of the other silly social media junk.

I feel this thwarts the extortion site crowd. It's no fun to post a blurry face pic on an extortion site, and the burner number can easily be abandoned.[/QUOTE]I don't think you 'get' snap or kik. I use both of them. Snap is the only one I would send a photo on, b / c it is supposed to autodelete after viewing. I also use kik, there is a video chat aspect to it I have used in place of a phone call. It is anonymous for the girl if she is uncomfortable giving her real phone # (girls who don't have burner / google voice numbers). I am on those social media apps exactly because the girls are. You can find out intel about them in this way. They automatically search your contacts for members, trying to connect you. I have gotten girl's real names or other interesting info (I. E. , a username like 'blondesub' or 'tommysmommy') in this way.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;3819933]To the best of your knowledge? Please. I think this is what is now commonly referred to as Fake News. lol.. If you want to know the facts just ask.. I see very little has changed here in the last few years. I'll check back in a few more. So bye for now.[/QUOTE]You might want to "think" about what fake news is one more time. Here is an example of you doing EXACTLY what my memory recalled you doing, sending marketing blasts offering specific amounts. And that took me less than 30 seconds to find, thanks to the Highlights and Index thread.

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?9746-quot-Sugarbabies-quot-quot-Arrangements-quot-Amateurs-or-Not&p=2357362&viewfull=1#post2357362 [/URL]

I don't know if there's a blurry line between "fake news" and early stage dementia or not, but I said what I did because the practices you recommended back then can lead to someone getting permanently banned from SA, and I'm here to post helpful information when I can, and have no interest in feeding my own ego or one upping anyone else.