General Information

Thread Starter.

This is a great thread. I wonder noone wrote in here. Most of us write locally but there is some general issues and they are almost the same in most States. For example prostitution is illegal in US with the exception of Nevada LasVegas. On the other hand it's legal in Canada with lots of restrictions.

I found an official site for Canada;

[url]http://www.justice.gc.ca/en/index.html[/url]

I would be interested in joining any assocoiation fighting for Civil Rights of legalizing prostitution. Does anyone know of large national organization? Alot of Civl Rights Groups have organized and gotten equal right in the past 30 years; how about us?

There is an organization. It is the Libertarian Party. Below is a portion of their official platform:

If you believe in these ideals, you should become a member. It is cheap and they don't bombard you with junk mail.


[url]http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml[/url]

III.1 Crime and Victimless Crime

The Issue: Violent crime and fraud threaten the lives, happiness and belongings of Americans. Government's ability to protect the rights and property of individuals from crimes of violence and fraud is compromised because resources are focused on vice rather than on real crimes. Laws that codify "victimless crimes" turn those who simply conduct voluntary transactions and exercise free choice into criminals. This results in the United States having one of the highest percentages of the population in prison of any country in the world; yet real crime remains prevalent in many parts of the country.

Principle: Government exists to protect the rights of every individual including life, liberty and property. Criminal laws should be limited to violation of the rights of others through force or fraud, or deliberate actions that place others involuntarily at significant risk of harm. Individuals retain the right to voluntarily assume risk of harm to themselves in the exercise of free choice.

Solution: The appropriate way for the federal government to address crime is through consistent and impartial enforcement of laws that protect individual rights. The law enforcement resources of the federal government can be used most efficiently if limited to appropriate federal concerns. Limiting law enforcement to true crime will restore respect for the law and those who enforce it.

Transitional Action: Immediately reform the justice system's mandatory sentencing policies to ensure that violent offenders are not released from jail to make room for non-violent offenders. Repeal criminal laws which work against the protection of the rights and freedom of American citizens, residents or visitors, particularly laws which create a crime where no victim exists.

Yah. I already vote Libertarian. I am just suprised there isn't a civil Rights organization focusing solely on legalizing prostitution. It is a life style choice between consenting adults and we people choosing this lifestyle are oppressed. Mostly through religious lobbyist groups which I am sure would be illegal due to Seperation of Church and State, and the fact that there are urine tests strips to check for bacterial and viral diseases and that there can be medical cards to show for AIDS and Hepitiis Screenings, as well as condoms, it seems time to get a National Organization for the Legalization for Prostitution. Hell I guess I should start it. I'll get a website and start it.

My post was not completely accurate so I am posting some quotes I received Sorry
QUOTE=PsyberZombie]That quote is in·accurate with regards to Las Vegas , as KC·Q just wrote below

It's also wrong about Prostitution [i]ONLY[/i] being Legal in Nevada

Here in my home state of Rhode Island , In·door Prostitution is totally Legal

Soliciting is il·legal , though , which is why so many guys here get the girls' digits and arrange
perfectly legal private indoor 'dates' with them

When LE busts AMPs here , the only thing they can charge is operating a massage facility with
the masseuses not being properly licensed ; and immigration violations

The legality of in·door prostitution has also turned our strip clubs into barely disguised Brothels[/QUOTE][QUOTE=KC Questor]Actually it is NOT legal in Las Vegas. Lots of tourists head to "Sin City" thinking that it is, and the scads of escort services operating in the open might serve to convince. But in fact Clark County (which includes Las Vegas) is the only county in Nevada which could not have legal prostitution.

Under Nevada law, any county with a population of fewer than 400,000 is allowed to license brothels if it so chooses (NRS 244.345). As of January 2005, Clark County is the only county in Nevada with a population of over 400,000.

The town of Pahrump, 60 miles outside of Las Vegas, is the location of the closest legal house of prostitution for visitors to the neon nightlife.[/QUOTE]

This is a copy/paste of a conversation that has taken place in the Cincinnati Board.

I have, as per Jackson's suggestion, reposted the salient parts of the conversation here, in order to stimulate further conversation on the matter, and to clear the conversation from the Cincinnati board, as it is not directly related to Mongering.

Again, this is a repost, the original thread can be found here: [url]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=3977[/url] These posts end with post number 425 in that section.

[b]{SPECIAL NOTE to Jackson: I am not intentionally violating the Blue Law of the Forum in this repost, just trying to accurately reflect the conversation as it occurred on the Cincinnati board, including your Editor's Notes.}[/b]

[QUOTE=Weedman]I would never allow a cop to search my car, especially if sw held drugs and possibly dropped it on the floor. There is no reason to give a cop more ammo to put you in jail. But even if I had nothing in my car, I will never grant permission for someone to rifle through my belongings. We do have rights.

[size=-1][u]EDITOR'S SUGGESTION:[/u] [color=blue]This is interesting, but you might consider re-posting it under the Police Tactics and Legal Issues thread in the Special Interests section of the Forum where it will benefit the Forum Members who are specifically looking for this type of information. Thanks![/size][/color][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Wallie]Hmmm...
I'm from Indianapolis, but kind of keep an eye on the activities in the surrounding region as well, after all, you never know, a post from a nearby area may make me decide to take a road trip.

Here's my .02 about your friend's encounter. I am not a lawyer, so take it for what it's worth.

{Fair Warning, and an Apology to all of you, and to Jackson. This is a LOOONNG post.}

Quote:
[QUOTE]Originally Posted by Giani
...Yes, he COULD have argued with LE about the legitimacy of the stop (for which there was NOT even a flimsy excuse...) ...No traffic violation, seat belts fastened--the sole reason for the stop?[/QUOTE]

You have every right to ask why you are being stopped. Yes, LE will come up with some BS excuse, but it's a good idea to let LE know that you know you haven't done anything wrong. You don't have to be confrontational about it, just ask why you're being stopped. They have to have a reason. In fact, LE has to have what is called "Reasonable Articulatable Suspicion" that you are involved in a Criminal Activity, or have demonstrably broken the Law (ie. speeding) to pull you over. Asking why you are pulled over lets the LEO know you are, at least somewhat, aware of your Rights. They will be a bit more careful during the rest of the encounter if, in fact, this is just a harassment stop.

Quote:
[QUOTE]Originally Posted by Giani
...Yes, he COULD have "stood up for his rights" and said, "No way, you can't search my vehicle," even being confident that there was nothing in there by which they could nail him (no drugs, no guns, no nuthin'...)...[/QUOTE]

Basically, the same applies to a search of the vehicle as does pulling you over in the first place. If a LEO sees something in plain sight which is illegal; drugs for instance, then they have Probable Cause. However, just searching in hopes of finding something is not allowed, and is a violation of your Rights. Unless they have PC, they are required to secure your permission to make a search, and you have every Right to refuse a search. When they do search your vehicle, the trunk of the vehicle is not automatically included in the search. They can only search the area that is in direct control of the driver at that time, that being the cabin of the vehicle. Permission to search the trunk is required, and it is separate and apart from the permission to search the cabin of the vehicle.

Also, regardless of what they would have you believe, if a guest in your vehicle is carrying something illegal, again, let's say drugs, then you cannot be also held responsible, even if you know they a carrying. Of course, if your guest throws them under your seat, then you are responsible, as it is your vehicle.

Quote:
[QUOTE]Originally Posted by Giani
But, as BSG suggests--how much time do you want to spend in police custody to make a point?[/QUOTE]

OK, some terminology clarification is in order here. "Police Custody" suggests that you have been arrested, and there are laws regarding how long you can be held before a hearing, how long before charges are filed, etc. I believe though, that you are speaking more specifically about "how long do you want to be stuck at the side of the road doing Stupid Human Tricks?" This is quite separate from Police Custody, and also quite different from being "Detained".

Being Detained means you are being held, basically for suspicion of a crime that they don't quite have enough to tie you to yet. It's the first formal step before "Custody/{Arrest}"

However, unless you are being formally Detained, the longest LE is allowed to hold you, and make you do the Stupid Human Tricks, is 20 minutes. That's why you should always ask if you are free to go/are you being detained. Generally, they will have to say "No", and establishes that you are not Detained/Arrested. Again, it let's them know you are aware of your Rights. You should ask this often while LE is questioning you. If, after 20 minutes, they have no reason to detain you, then you, legally, have every Right to leave. Of course, wording this to the LE is tricky, you don't want to make them think you are trying to escape, etc. and, granted, it takes HUGE cahones to say "OK Officer, we've been here 20 minutes now, am I being Detained? No, OK, well, as per my Rights, I leaving now.", but, those are your Rights.

Quote:
[QUOTE]Originally Posted by Giani
There are times when we take a stand, and are willing to be held in custody, or even go to jail for it--but (and doesn't LE know it) most of us duck and take cover.[/QUOTE]

Correction, LE DOES know it. That's why they do it. They know that most people just want to get the whole thing over with as quickly as possible, hoping for the best, and get away with as little hassle, or as small of a ticket as possible. After all, everyone is taught to Respect the Law, and Police Officers. They take that very Respect for granted, and use it against you in order to try to get you to confess to doing something, or into giving up some of your Rights, so they can get a bigger case out of the encounter.

Quote:
[QUOTE]Originally Posted by Giani
I would love to hear of one of us who EVER said to LE, "No, I will only give you my name, call my lawyer. No, you can't search my car. No, I will not answer ANY of your questions..." If you have, let us know.[/QUOTE]

Ironically, as for giving them your name, it is your Right not to give them that information either. You don't have to give a LEO your license either. It is up to them to positively identify you. After all, we are not a "Papers Please" type of country. (On a related note, if you are arrested it is your Right to refuse to be fingerprinted and/or have a mug shot taken as well. The Supreme Court has ruled that your fingerprints are your Personal Property, and you cannot be compelled to submit them. In some states (Indiana is one) LE will often times ask you to put a thumb print on a ticket you receive, you have the Right to refuse to provide that print as well.)

You have the absolute Right to Remain Silent. You are not required to answer any questions asked of you. None.

Quote:
[QUOTE]Originally Posted by Giani
Short of that, we all agree that it is scandalous the way that, in the name of the Patriot Act, etc, that individual rights have been eroded, LE lies, schemes, deceives, and bullies the "underclass" in ways that violates civil rights.[/QUOTE]

It's too easy to blame to Patriot Act. Granted, there are definitely excesses in it, but the major problems in the System have existed well before the Patriot Act was passed, and, we have all been trained to be submissive, and, as you put it, "duck and take cover".

Quote:
[QUOTE]Originally Posted by Giani
What happened to "Law and Order" in the "Land of the Free?" And is there a way we can fight this injustice without going straight to jail or paying a lawyer big bucks??? Maybe not. Giani[/QUOTE]

The Land of the Free is, for the most part, still there. We just have to be willing to stand up, and protect our Rights. "Duck and Take Cover" theories only help erode our Rights. Protecting them is the right thing to do.

Also, keep this in mind: the Supreme Court has also ruled that the protection of your Rights cannot be converted into a crime. If you get arrested because you were protecting your Rights, then you have a Major League Civil Rights Lawsuit you can file for having those Rights violated.

Finally, a quick word about Lawyers. Unless your Lawyer specializes in Civil Rights Law, a Lawyer will not go out of their way to make sure your Rights were not violated during an encounter with LE. Here's the reason: a Lawyer is an Officer of the Court. As such, they are not supposed to do anything which displeases the Court. Their FIRST loyalty is to the Court regardless of what they tell you. You are the LAST thing they are loyal to.

For best results, seek out an independent Civil Rights Group. NOT the ACLU, they don't care about most of the small stuff, they aim too high to be of help. There is a large, and growing, group of independent Civil Rights Libertarians who are more than happy to help. Do an Web Search for some of the topics discussed here, and you will find some info.

Here's the URL of the site that Harpo2u was referring to/quoting from: [url]http://www.safeaccessnow.org/article.php?id=2605[/url].

Visit this site for information related to some of our other Rights that are constantly being trampled upon: [url]http://www.landrights.com[/url]. Warning, this guy has some odd ideas about Hydrogen Peroxide, and some other stuff, but, for the most part, alot of his information is true. I am acquainted with a person who is involved in the law, and he says most of the info there is valid.

Really finally, to answer your question: I have not yet begun to protect all of my Rights when dealing with LE either. I generally give them my license, and answer their questions. I have refused a Search before, and the LEO didn't say anything, just walked around the car, hoping to see something that would give them PC to search. As I learn more from my friend who often deals with protecting our Rights, I learn more, and learn how to protect my Rights. Knowledge is the Answer to fighting the Injustice you speak of.

Wallie

PS, this whole conversation should probably, as Jackson suggested, be moved to the Legal Affairs Section of the Guide.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Giani]OK guys... Let's be straight up. Tell us when YOU said no to LE...
To my friends on the board who busted the chops of my friend (see previous posts).

I agree that my friend might have handled things differently. But reconsider several facts:

He had, in fact, NOT picked up the black girl in OTR--he was IN FACT driving through OTR (BIG mistake) to take her for a bite to eat... He made no flagrant traffic moves, did not call attention to himself except... see next. (Yes--he WAS hoping for a little intimacy after the meal--NOT a crime, inspite of LE's claim.)

Yes, he COULD have argued with LE about the legitimacy of the stop (for which there was NOT even a flimsy excuse...) I mean, EXCUSE him for driving in Hamilton County with an out of county license plate--and EXCUSE him for having a black girl in the vehicle, he being white... (LE: "You know--it looks bad a white guy having a black girl in his vehicle..." Sheesh.) No traffic violation, seat belts fastened--the sole reason for the stop? Racially mixed couple, out of county license...

Yes, he COULD have "stood up for his rights" and said, "No way, you can't search my vehicle," even being confident that there was nothing in there by which they could nail him (no drugs, no guns, no nuthin'...). But, as BSG suggests--how much time do you want to spend in police custody to make a point? There are times when we take a stand, and are willing to be held in custody, or even go to jail for it--but (and doesn't LE know it) most of us duck and take cover. Yes, my friend copped out instead of resisting... Maybe I would have done differently--maybe not. And you???

I would love to hear of one of us who EVER said to LE, "No, I will only give you my name, call my lawyer. No, you can't search my car. No, I will not answer ANY of your questions..." If you have, let us know.

Short of that, we all agree that it is scandalous the way that, in the name of the Patriot Act, etc, that individual rights have been eroded, LE lies, schemes, deceives, and bullies the "underclass" in ways that violates civil rights.

What happened to "Law and Order" in the "Land of the Free?" And is there a way we can fight this injustice without going straight to jail or paying a lawyer big bucks??? Maybe not.

Giani[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Broad St Guy]Indeed you got that right - but "spelling" you did not...

But beyond all this legal advice below - I say - do not put yourself into the position were the Police even have to ask you to search anything. Then there is nothing to worry about.

If you get pulled over doing this hobby, then you need to stop doing it for awhile and reflect. You have done something to draw attention to yourself and thus the Police came into the picture. I have seen some mongers do some really dumb stuff out there, insofar as driving and the way they approach the girls. If you don't blend into the surroundings then you will stick out and the cops will have an interest in you.

Also be aware that the "Patriot Act" while the intent was to give Law Enforcement powers to fight terrorists, the same laws can be applied to any Americans and the definition of "probable cause" has been severely watered down.

Best thing to do if the Police pull you over is to only answer yes or no to questions and to cooperate. Do not offer information that is not asked for and keep you your mouth shut. Be polite. Do not agitate them or question them. Do not tell them how to do their job. If you do not have something to hide, then do not act as if you do. For me it is not a question of right or wrong or rights - it is a question of how long do you have sit there with them and go through that. For me - the answer is I want it over as soon as possible - thus, the less you prolong them the less time you will be there.

That is my word.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=WordUp]Harpo You Are Right On Target ....
.
..
....

This is a POST that can NEVER be repeated enough !!!!
It was just posted again last Summer (06). The poster gave a web site to go to, to know your RIGHTS. It should be a part of the Header next to the Home and Forum buttons.

I have been Stopped before and I have NEVER EVER, consented to ever have my car search. Even when threatened by Cops that if I am not hidding anything, what harm is it. Or that they can have a drug dog down in 30 minutes to walk around the car. I still say NO !!! I don't do drugs so, there is nothing to hide, but I will never give up freely my constitutional right(s) regardless.

Ask any Attorney and they will tell you exactly the same. Ask the proper questions, as if you can leave. If you are being detailed or arrested
" KEEP QUIET" even if they say the girl told them everything. A decent Attorney can CRUSH that statement easily.

The Police are hoping you are Too Afraid and will talk, or the you don't know your right, because they will lie to you, or that you are just being a good citizen .... Yea, Right !!!!

That same goes for your Home as Will as your Car. Go on line to
Lexus Nexus ( I think that is the spelling ) and you can buy copies of The Ohio Search Warrant Laws, and the ALMIGHT .... Ohio Revised Code. Get two copies, one for your home the other for your car. And let the Cop know you wish to knowthe code he thinks your have violated. Watch how careful he will become as "NOT" to make a Mistake then.
This especially works for those City Wide small time Police Dept. like Arlington Heights, Reading, Norwood, Springfield/Springdale .... and alike.

If you can go to Finley Market, shop a little, so you have a decent accuse for being in the area, well at least during the day. At night stop at Ollies Troley for a bit to eat. It will cover a little, and Ollies has GooD food.

EVEN WILLIE CUNNINGHAM SAYS THE SAME ON HIS SHOW TIME TO TIME.
He is an Radio Idiot, but he still one damn Good Attorney.

G Man tell your Friend to buy the Book if he can, or go to someone law library.

HARPO YOU ARE RIGHT ON THE MONEY .... AGAIN !!!!



WORD ....


...
..
.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Harpo2u]Police Encounters
This is response to Giani post #418.

One big mistake your friend made was giving consent to LE to search his car!
Again BIG BIG mistake and I'm sure some people will disagree with me on this point. Your friend was stopped because the LE were trying to find something to arrest your friend and or the girl he was with that day.

Another point to remember everyone, "NEVER BELIEVE COPS IF YOU GET PULLED OVER AND THEY JUST WANT TO TALK TO YOU".

Your friend was stopped and what is called being detained. Obvoiusly he wasn't pulled over for a driving violation.

LE can detain you only if they have reasonable suspicion that you are involved in a crime. Detention means that, though you aren't arrested, you can't leave. Detention is supposed to last a short time, and they aren't supposed to move you. During detention, the police can pat you down and go into your bag to make sure you don't have any weapons. They aren't supposed to go into your pockets unless they feel a weapon.

If LE are asking questions, ask if you are being detained. If not, leave and say nothing else to them. If you are being detained, you may want to ask why. Then you should say the Magic Words: "I AM GOING TO REMAIN SILENT. I WANT A LAWYER" and nothing else.

A detention can easily turn into arrest. If the police are detaining you and they get information that you are involved in a crime, they will arrest you, even if it has nothing to do with your detention. For example, if you gets pulled over for speeding (detained) and the cop sees drugs in the car, the cops may arrest you for possession of the drugs, even though it has nothing to do with you getting pulled over. Cops have two reasons to detain you: 1) they are writing you a citation (a traffic ticket, for example), or 2) they want to arrest you but they don't yet have enough information to do so.

Now it doesn't make sense what the LE said about it's against the law to hire a prostitute and there was no money involved!!!!!!! If you ever been in a sting or watched the tv show "COPS" it's all about money!!!!!! If a undercover female cop posed as a SW and you the monger drives up and say "$20 for whatever BJ, FS,etc" you are caught breaking the law.

Never say anything to a COP than your name and home address and info that identify you. Don't get caught with their lies and tricks to say something that could get yourself arrested.

SEARCHES

Never consent to a search. If the police try to search your house, car, backpack, pockets, etc. say the Magic Words 2: "I do not consent to this search." This may not stop them from forcing their way in and searching anyway, but if they search you illegally, they probably won't be able to use the evidence against you in court. You have nothing to lose from refusing to consent to a search and lots to gain. Do not physically resist cops when they are trying to search, because you could get hurt and charged with resisting arrest or assault. Just keep repeating the Magic Words so that the cops and all witnesses know that this is your policy.

Be careful about casual consent. That is, if you are stopped by the cops and you get out of the car but don't close the door, they can search the car and claim that they thought you were indicating consent by leaving the door ajar. Also, if you say, "I'd rather you didn't search," they can claim that you were reluctantly giving them permission to search. Always just say the Magic Words 2: "I DO NOT CONSENT TO THIS SEARCH."

Giani, your friend made a few mistakes and giving consent to a search was a big one. They were trying to find something to arrest him. If the girl was carrying drugs they probably taken them both in but if there was no search warrant and your friend tells them he dosen't consent then they can't use that against him in court. If he was by himself and got pulled over and all then it would be a different situation. But he didn't know if she was carrying therefore putting himself at risk if LE searches and find her carrying. She had time to drop any drugs under his seat before LE walked up to his car. Get the picture. Under his situation I would said no to the search and go through the hassle and protect my rights even if they make me wait for a warrant or take me to the police station.

Remember, anything you say to the authorities can and will be used against you and your friends in court. There's no way to predict what information the police might try to use or how they will use it. Plus, the police often misquote or lie altogether about what was said. So say only the Magic Words "I AM GOING TO REMAIN SILENT. I WANT A LAWYER" and let all the cops and witnesses know that this is your policy.

One of the jobs of cops is to get information out of people, and they usually don't have any scruples about how they do it. Cops are legally allowed to lie when they're investigating, and they are trained to be manipulative. The only thing you should say to cops, other than identifying yourself, are the Magic Words: "I AM GOING TO REMAIN SILENT. I WANT A LAWYER" And remember the Golden Rule: Never trust a cop.

Here are some lies they may tell you:

* "You're not a suspect -- just help us understand what happened here and then you can go."

* "If you don't answer my questions, I'll have no choice but to arrest you. Do you want to go to jail?"

* "If you don't answer my questions, I'm going to charge you with resisting arrest."

* "All of your friends have cooperated, and we let them go home. You're the only one left."

Cops are sneaky buggers, and there are lots of ways they can trick you into talking. Here are some scams they may pull:

* Good Cop/ Bad Cop: Bad cop is aggressive and menacing, while good cop is nice, friendly, and familiar (usually good cop is the same race and gender as you). The idea is bad cop scares you so badly you are desperately looking for a friend. Good cop is that friend.

* Prisoners' Dilemma: The cops will tell you that your friends ratted on you so that you will snitch on them. Meanwhile, they tell your friends the same thing. If anyone breaks and talks, you all go down.

* The cops will tell you that they have all the evidence they need to convict you, but that if you "take responsibility" and confess, the judge will be impressed by your honesty and go easy on you. What they really mean is: "We don't have enough evidence yet, please confess."

The Miranda Warnings

The police do not have to read you your rights (also known as the Miranda warnings). Miranda applies when there is (a) an interrogation (b) by a police officer of other agent of law enforcement (c) while the suspect is in police custody (you do not have to be formally arrested to be "in custody"). Even when all these conditions are met, the police intentionally violate Miranda. And though your rights have been violated, what you say can be used against you. For this reason, it is better not to wait for the cops to inform you of your rights or ask if you want to remain silent. You know what your rights are, so you can invoke them by saying the Magic Words, "I AM GOING TO REMAIN SILENT. I WANT A LAWYER"

LE was looking to make a bust and your friend was lucky that day. Did your friend called this girl and arranged to pick her up at so and so corner? Or did he drive by and saw her standing there and picked her up? LE is all over the place watching and it's hard to check around to see if anyone is watching you.

If you are in OTR have a good operating plan for driving through the area. Somethings I stop at a business and pretent to write down the address or stop to use my cell phone because I don't want to drive and talk on the phone at the same time, get it. I make stops at the Shell station for gas if I feel LE is following me on McMicken or Liberty St. During the summer I would stop and park near the "Lucy Blue" Pizza place on 12th and Walnut and meet SW near by out of my car. I can't be arrested or stopped by LE while eating pizza and talking to people, get it. Change the way you operate when looking for SW's. Have a city map in your car and you're looking at the area for a condo you're thinking about buying, get it. Have a plan if you do get stopped and more importantly KNOW YOUR RIGHTS!!!!!!
I speak from experience.
Don't believe cops if they want to stop and talk to you. They will do anything to make an arrest and let the city prosecutor decide your charges in court. If LE can scared you into confessing or saying something to get you arrested, they will do that any way they can.

Tell me what you guys think about all this because it's going to be like this for awhile in OTR.

BE CAREFUL AND STOP AND THINK ABOUT WAHT YOU WILL DO

Harop2U

[size=-1][u]EDITOR'S SUGGESTION:[/u] [color=blue]This is interesting, but you might consider re-posting it under the Police Tactics and Legal Issues thread in the Special Interests section of the Forum where it will benefit the Forum Members who are specifically looking for this type of information. Thanks!
[/size][/color][/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=Giani]Heat in the OTR...
Things have been REALLY hot in OTR recently. With the following experience of a friend of mine from a week ago, it makes me leary to grace those streets these days... He asked that I post it for him, and not reveal his name.

This friend was in a vehicle from a county other than Hamilton (LE looks for out-of-county_cars). He, a white guy, was taking a black female out to a meal (not yet any contact--though it was most likely in the offing). Traveling down Elm, LE started trailing them. He is marking his laundry...

They turned towards Main, and LE flashes the lights. LE takes my friend into the squad car ("you are not under arrest...") while his partner questions the black girl in the vehicle. "What are you doing in this area? Why are you (a white guy) carrying a black girl in your vehicle? How do you know her? What is her full name? Don't you know that she is a known prostitute with a long record?" My friend says that he is taking her to get a meal, no $ exchanged, is that a crime? "You can still get arrested for hiring a prostitute, even with no money exchanged." [Is this correct???]

"Do you mind if we search your vehicle?" My friend, as most of us, seeing that saying "no" would wind up them both up at the precinct, says yes (hoping the girl is not carrying...). Luckily, no contraband was found. [Another lesson: do NOT be carrying when mongering...]

Bottom line, nothing was found, and LE told him (get this) "You don't want to get caught like this... Have them come to your place if you want to engage in this activity..." My friend was relieved. But I am pissed.

Sheesh. I personally have seen saturation coverage with LE, both city and county boys, as reported in several previous posts.

At the same time, I also have seen MANY SWs out there. But... be extremely careful, get the hell out of OTR, and preferably, cruise in areas less extremely hot than OTR for a while.

Sorry for the bummer post--but my friend had the sh*t scared out of him--and who knows what would have happened if she HAD been carrying???

Hoping for more pleasant posts and times,

Giani[/QUOTE]

I think there may be some misunderstandings here.

I think that LE can force you to ID yourself for their safety.

[QUOTE=NY Monger]I think there may be some misunderstandings here.

I think that LE can force you to ID yourself for their safety.[/QUOTE]
Right you are !

Doubters might check 'Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District of Nevada'. 2004.

I could very well be wrong, I will double-check with my source, and take a copy of the case cited with me, and get an opinion.

Wallie

Here is a web site with info on your rights , I understand youtube doesn't like the video and condems it. I watched the free ones and am considering ordering it when I get past the first of the year bills. Worth a look I think.

[url]http://www.flexyourrights.org/[/url]

Some interesting sites for legal discussion .

[url]http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/criminal_rights/[/url]

[url]http://www.unknownnews.net/cops.html[/url]

[url]http://www.flexyourrights.org/[/url]

[url]http://www.sexwork.com/coalition/index.html[/url]

It is apparently a place forming a coalition for lobbying to legalize prostitution in the USA. I urge you to send this link to local Escorts, AMP's, Libertarian Parties, Stripclubs and others in your area suffering persecution in this country; Other groups have won freedom in this country; it is time to take action and end this idiotic opression against men in this country.

Buffalo Bill,

Yours is the best example of what members should refer to if they have questions. Just because someone puts it on the board does not mean that it's fact. And just because someone refers to a website that supposedly displays legal advice or information OTHER than a state or federal website does not make it fact. One of the other quotes in the lengthy pasted posts below refer to Supreme Court cases. In the absence of the case citation, such as Buffalo Bill made concerning Hibel v. 6th Judicial District of Nevada 2004, it would be unwise to rely on such statements as factual. If you cannot read the state or federal statute for yourself or cannot find or read the text of a case citation, then I would be reluctant to rely on the information as gospel. You can find just about every state's statutes as well as the US Code online. You can also find and research just about every court's cases, including the Supreme Court, online. We might all be surprised to find that what holds true for one state may not hold true in another. A little research of statutes, or even a google search for, say, "Michigan Statutes" would be a wise expenditure of time.

[QUOTE=Buffalo Bill]Right you are !

Doubters might check 'Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District of Nevada'. 2004.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Nightflyerx1]Here is a web site with info on your rights , I understand youtube doesn't like the video and condems it. I watched the free ones and am considering ordering it when I get past the first of the year bills. Worth a look I think.

[url]http://www.flexyourrights.org/[/url][/QUOTE]

Very good points.

However, you also have to keep in mind that the Code, from [b]ANY[/b] Jurisdiction is not necessarily the Law. Many Codes are passed which are not codified into Law. the Code is Public Policy, which is different than the Law. It's a big subject, and I don't pretend to be an expert by any means.

For example, states say that driving is a privilege and not a Right. In the Legal sense of the word "drive", they are correct. However, a Private Citizen going, from say, home to the grocery store or work, is [i]not[/i], in the Legal sense, Driving. They are traveling. Traveling is Constitutionally Protected, according to the US Supreme Court. They have also said that the Public Roads are the Public's to use. "Driving", in the Legal sense, infers that you are using the Public Roads for Profit. So, as an example, a Semi-Truck Driver [i]would[/i] need a license to Drive. You only need a license to do something which would otherwise be illegal. If you know [i][b]exactly[/i][/b] how to defend yourself, (which I am still learning) you can go into any Court and beat a "driving without a license" ticket. I know people who do.

I did as I said I would do, and talked to my friend about the Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District of Nevada'. 2004 case. He is familiar with that case, and said that the Opinion of the Court was the right Decision [i]based on the argument put forth by Hiibel[/i]. The problem is, his case was flawed. Hiibel didn't present the proper argument to the Court. My friend is getting the exact case reference, but the Court has ruled that you are [b]not[/b] required to give a LEO your name if you are stopped. It [i]is[/i] part of Miranda, and thus protected. Basically, the Dissenting Opinion in the Hiibel case is standing on that same argument (that your name is protected by Miranda). As soon as I get that Case Reference, I will post it here.

Regardless of all Opinions, I am glad that re-posting the Cincy Conversation has spurred a conversation. That was my main intent anyway.

Wallie

[QUOTE=Irish Male2]Buffalo Bill,

Yours is the best example of what members should refer to if they have questions. Just because someone puts it on the board does not mean that it's fact. And just because someone refers to a website that supposedly displays legal advice or information OTHER than a state or federal website does not make it fact. One of the other quotes in the lengthy pasted posts below refer to Supreme Court cases. In the absence of the case citation, such as Buffalo Bill made concerning Hibel v. 6th Judicial District of Nevada 2004, it would be unwise to rely on such statements as factual. If you cannot read the state or federal statute for yourself or cannot find or read the text of a case citation, then I would be reluctant to rely on the information as gospel. You can find just about every state's statutes as well as the US Code online. You can also find and research just about every court's cases, including the Supreme Court, online. We might all be surprised to find that what holds true for one state may not hold true in another. A little research of statutes, or even a google search for, say, "Michigan Statutes" would be a wise expenditure of time.[/QUOTE]