View Full Version : Rants and Stupid shit in Orange County
If you don't pay for premium, the free standard connectivity still works for navigation for 8 years. Theoretically, it could still connect to cell towers and use triangulation to get the location. It's not difficult to disable the LTE antenna. For a hobby with a going rate of $300 to $800 an hour, everything is possible. Wrapping with plastic and then copper tape will work if you leave out the heat sinks for air.
A Tesla can get an internet connection via wifi from a phone hotspot. It can be set up permanently with a dedicated phone. Most junks should work on the Tesla; they just need a data connection.
The OP appears to be a parking problem. Indeed you have to hide the location of the car while traveling. So you can take out the GPS antenna too. There are many gadgets to plug into the USB or connect wirelessly for navigation. I used a single Android phone app to run Android Auto on the Tesla screen via a phone hotspot connected to the Tesla browser. It's pretty much the same as other Android autos. There are carplay apps too. You can also set it up with a dedicated phone. There's no possible way for the car to get the location from the app.
It's not difficult to disable the GPS antenna in the rearview mirror on and off. Just find something to cover up the whole mirror with metal, hard or soft, and stick a mirror in front of it.All good stuff that will definitely work. By the same token, putting a lot of effort into disabling shit on your expensive EV isn't going to be most people's cup of tea.
The solution I've found is the getaround app, where you can rent cars from other individuals for a few hours for cheap. Chances are there's someone nearby whom has a car available. Going rates are $20 -$30 for a 3 hour rental. There's also zipcar but that isn't as prominent in SoCal as it is in other parts of the state.
James D 2004
04-03-24, 13:44
All good stuff that will definitely work. By the same token, putting a lot of effort into disabling shit on your expensive EV isn't going to be most people's cup of tea.
The solution I've found is the getaround app, where you can rent cars from other individuals for a few hours for cheap. Chances are there's someone nearby whom has a car available. Going rates are $20 -$30 for a 3 hour rental. There's also zipcar but that isn't as prominent in SoCal as it is in other parts of the state.The price is surprising. It's perfect if you already have a car. The nearest is 20 miles from me for $4 an hour. There must be something wrong. I wouldn't want to rent out a clean and working car like that.
The price is surprising. It's perfect if you already have a car. The nearest is 20 miles from me for $4 an hour. There must be something wrong. I wouldn't want to rent out a clean and working car like that.Yeah, $4/ hr doesn't sound right. I'm not sure I'd rent a car for that price. It would be even harder to explain why you got stranded somewhere in some car that you rented for $4/ hr than trying to explain why you were where you shouldn't be in your normal car. I find that most of them are something like $30 for half a day. If you happen to live or work near someone who has a car available, it's a heck of a deal and probably the best way to go. Unfortunately it's not as prominent down here as it is in the Bay Area but some people might still get lucky and find there are options available for them.
DarkRoomDaddy
04-05-24, 08:00
Yeah, $4/ hr doesn't sound right. I'm not sure I'd rent a car for that price. It would be even harder to explain why you got stranded somewhere in some car that you rented for $4/ hr than trying to explain why you were where you shouldn't be in your normal car. I find that most of them are something like $30 for half a day. If you happen to live or work near someone who has a car available, it's a heck of a deal and probably the best way to go. Unfortunately it's not as prominent down here as it is in the Bay Area but some people might still get lucky and find there are options available for them.There used to be Home Depot trucks for $20/ hour. You say you need some nuts and screws, and drive to the Depot, Rent the truck, and drive over to the hoo-haw heaven for handy helping of happy time.
DarkRoomDaddy
04-05-24, 08:02
All good stuff that will definitely work. By the same token, putting a lot of effort into disabling shit on your expensive EV isn't going to be most people's cup of tea.
The solution I've found is the getaround app, where you can rent cars from other individuals for a few hours for cheap. Chances are there's someone nearby whom has a car available. Going rates are $20 -$30 for a 3 hour rental. There's also zipcar but that isn't as prominent in SoCal as it is in other parts of the state.I got a folding electric scooter in the trunk. You can go a couple of miles. You park at a mall oar hospital then scoot over a mile.
There used to be Home Depot trucks for $20/ hour. You say you need some nuts and screws, and drive to the Depot, Rent the truck, and drive over to the hoo-haw heaven for handy helping of happy time.That works if you don't need much more than an hour. The HD trucks are $20 just for the first hour and then something like $15 for every quarter hour after that. They're also first come first served. Any given HD will have one or two trucks available, so if you have a set appointment time that's an issue.
UHaul is notorious for that. You see UHaul pickup trucks and cargo vans all the time with huge "rent me for $19.95/ day" signs on them. The catch is it's $19.95/ day plus something like $0. 89 per mile, plus gas. The last time I rented a UHaul cargo van, which was a couple months ago, I drove it about 50 miles and it cost nearly $100 not including gas, and those things get horrendously bad gas mileage. I ended up putting over $50 worth of gas in it. I think I calculated somewhere around 10 mpg. The pickup trucks do a little better than that, but still a run to get some tail for an hour will cost close to $100.
When my SUV gave up the ghost I lost my hauling vehicle. My solution to that was to get the new Tesla with the towing package, so now anytime I need to haul something I just get a UHaul trailer which costs around $15/ day. So the HD truck option doesn't work for me, but I could see it being ideal for some.
Park at target and have a small collapsible scooter in the trunk to go half a mile down the road.Where is he going to hide the scooter, or what is the purpose of the scooter?
Tesla uses LTE for navigation, live maps, music streaming, and internet connectivity. That is all part of the premium connectivity package that you pay $9. 99/ month for. You can of course skip that, but the car is virtually freaking worthless without it. Well ok, you can live with out it, but that big nav screen without connectivity is just wasted space, and if you're taking longer road trips that navigation is essential since it knows the state of your vehicle in real time and where the superchargers are.
Driving with faraday bags over the mirrors isn't very practical, especially if you're trying to do something on the sly. The only real solution is to disable the mobile connectivity when you're on one of your special field trips, but then again anyone with access to the app can see that you disabled it.
Best solution IMO is to just not take the car anywhere that would be incriminating if someone with access to your app found you there. If that means parking somewhere innocuous and taking an uber, so be it.The only possible problem is leaving you phone inside the Tesla because you're not going to be able to leave at a fast food place or a store.
So I've been seeing this woman for 6-7 years. She's in her late 30's early 40's, me breaking into my 60's. She's still attractive, has a nice bod, is very smart and has her own burliness, and is very amicable and has never said no to anything I asked her to do. Problem is she apparently doesn't cut it for Jr. Anymore. I don't know if it's me getting older or if it's the familiarity factor or something else. With her, Jr. Does wake up, puts out a valiant effort, but in a minute or two goes back to sleep and doesn't deliver the goods. Same Jr. Is a total party animal with other girls whom I find attractive and even some whom I don't. So at this point, I just want to break if off and go seek some greener pastures, but I want to do it as nicely as possible. I don't want to leave her on bad terms or hurt her feelings.
So, my question to the esteemed members here is: how do you break it off with your ATF?Just stop responding to her and if she continues to text / call then block her. If you see her somewhere don't talk to her, I thought this hobby was meant to be discreet. You don't own anyone anything and the truth is that there's no good way to end it. ALWAYS LIE, because if you tell her the truth, no matter how gentle, she will freak out in one way or another. These girls whole existence is there looks, went they go its hard on them. They will do crazy stuff, from my experience of course. Just tell her money is tight or your too old for it. She already saw Jr. Perform in person. No one beats father time.
Dildo Baggens
04-19-24, 11:51
Are you still working? If so, tell her you're being transferred far away or overseas. Give her a firm date. Have one last time with her and bring her a gift.
If you're retired, tell her you're moving out of state because it's too damn expensive here. You know the rest.
Just stop responding to her and if she continues to text / call then block her. If you see her somewhere don't talk to her, I thought this hobby was meant to be discreet. You don't own anyone anything and the truth is that there's no good way to end it. ALWAYS LIE, because if you tell her the truth, no matter how gentle, she will freak out in one way or another. These girls whole existence is there looks, went they go its hard on them. They will do crazy stuff, from my experience of course. Just tell her money is tight or your too old for it. She already saw Jr. Perform in person. No one beats father time.
Are you still working? If so, tell her you're being transferred far away or overseas. Give her a firm date. Have one last time with her and bring her a gift.
If you're retired, tell her you're moving out of state because it's too damn expensive here. You know the rest.First of all, glad to have you back. Yeah, I'm still working and have a couple more year to go before having enough saved to retire to SEA.
I have an incurable case of honesty and am not good at making up stuff. Plus, she's local, so I'm sure I'll run into her somewhere. I have stopped responding for a couple of months, but she still messages me once a week or so. We'll see how it goes.
Just stop responding to her and if she continues to text / call then block her. If you see her somewhere don't talk to her, I thought this hobby was meant to be discreet. You don't own anyone anything and the truth is that there's no good way to end it. ALWAYS LIE, because if you tell her the truth, no matter how gentle, she will freak out in one way or another. These girls whole existence is there looks, went they go its hard on them. They will do crazy stuff, from my experience of course. Just tell her money is tight or your too old for it. She already saw Jr. Perform in person. No one beats father time.Father time hasn't caught up with me yet. Couple of days ago with pussy du jour, willy was happy as a clam and performed his duties like a champ. Provider was excellent. I couldn't ask for anything more. Thank god us men don't have menopause.
DarkRoomDaddy
04-24-24, 01:49
Just stop responding to her and if she continues to text / call then block her. If you see her somewhere don't talk to her, I thought this hobby was meant to be discreet. You don't own anyone anything and the truth is that there's no good way to end it. ALWAYS LIE, because if you tell her the truth, no matter how gentle, she will freak out in one way or another. These girls whole existence is there looks, went they go its hard on them. They will do crazy stuff, from my experience of course. Just tell her money is tight or your too old for it. She already saw Jr. Perform in person. No one beats father time.Yeah its kind of a Western thing to talk things over, end nicely, remain friends, or be gentlemanly. In Asia they would just cut you off. Often with zero explanation. And even if there are feelings if there is a decision to split, bam its done. No hypothetical discussions about "what if". Etc. Just mve on.
Ace McNasty
04-26-24, 10:39
The beater car that I was driving around town finally bit the dust. Ironically it broke down. Wife and I already knew we were on borrowed time with that car (15 years and 200 k miles) and decided a long time ago that we would replace it with a second Tesla when the time came. Awesome, except Teslas are trackable. The last thing I need is for my wife to open the app and see that the other car is in Little Saigon or at some random hotel.I have 3 signal blockers. Smallest one has no built in battery but is plugged in the cig lighter deep inside the center console or the glove compt. The range is only within the radius of the car. Blocks GPS and cell phone networks. I use it when I pick up a SW and it's funny when she tries to call her pimp and can't figure out why there are zero bars LOL.
The pics below is the medium sized one I use the most because it fits inside my pocket when I go to their incall. Effective range is just within the hotel room. Same thing, no internet or mobile network. Her incall is a dead zone as long as my pants are folded next to the room TV.
The biggest one I have is not portable, about the size of an old military walike-talkie with 6 long antennas on top. If I turn it on inside my hotel room waiting for a hoe doing outcall to me, the effective range is about 50 feet so think in 3 dimensions. Blocks CDM, GSM, 2-G, 5-G, GPS, Wifi, etc.
Hardest part for me is trying to contain my laughter watching the hoe I picked up to take to my hotel desperately trying to text or call. I had one girl stick her iPhone out the window ha ha ha. I just play dumb. My devices will block your Tesla and your wife will never know you spent an hour at an AMP in Westminster or Garbage Grove.
Technology giveth and technology taketh away.My other favorite quote is from the movie London Has Fallen when the kidnapped President said to the dudes about to livestream his execution: "Technology. Only as good as the dumbfucks who use it" LOL.
I have 3 signal blockers. Smallest one has no built in battery but is plugged in the cig lighter deep inside the center console or the glove compt. The range is only within the radius of the car. Blocks GPS and cell phone networks. I use it when I pick up a SW and it's funny when she tries to call her pimp and can't figure out why there are zero bars LOL.
The pics below is the medium sized one I use the most because it fits inside my pocket when I go to their incall. Effective range is just within the hotel room. Same thing, no internet or mobile network. Her incall is a dead zone as long as my pants are folded next to the room TV.
The biggest one I have is not portable, about the size of an old military walike-talkie with 6 long antennas on top. If I turn it on inside my hotel room waiting for a hoe doing outcall to me, the effective range is about 50 feet so think in 3 dimensions. Blocks CDM, GSM, 2-G, 5-G, GPS, Wifi, etc.
Hardest part for me is trying to contain my laughter watching the hoe I picked up to take to my hotel desperately trying to text or call. I had one girl stick her iPhone out the window ha ha ha. I just play dumb. My devices will block your Tesla and your wife will never know you spent an hour at an AMP in Westminster or Garbage Grove.
My other favorite quote is from the movie London Has Fallen when the kidnapped President said to the dudes about to livestream his execution: "Technology. Only as good as the dumbfucks who use it" LOL.Cool stuff. I can see those coming in handy. Just don't get caught with them. Jamming signals is illegal as hell and carries stiff Federal penalties up to and including prison time if caught. Your chances of getting caught are of course extremely small, but definitely keep it on the down low.
Iislali938
04-27-24, 12:01
I have 3 signal blockers. Smallest one has no built in battery but is plugged in the cig lighter deep inside the center console or the glove compt. The range is only within the radius of the car. Blocks GPS and cell phone networks. I use it when I pick up a SW and it's funny when she tries to call her pimp and can't figure out why there are zero bars LOL.
The pics below is the medium sized one I use the most because it fits inside my pocket when I go to their incall. Effective range is just within the hotel room. Same thing, no internet or mobile network. Her incall is a dead zone as long as my pants are folded next to the room TV.
The biggest one I have is not portable, about the size of an old military walike-talkie with 6 long antennas on top. If I turn it on inside my hotel room waiting for a hoe doing outcall to me, the effective range is about 50 feet so think in 3 dimensions. Blocks CDM, GSM, 2-G, 5-G, GPS, Wifi, etc.
Hardest part for me is trying to contain my laughter watching the hoe I picked up to take to my hotel desperately trying to text or call. I had one girl stick her iPhone out the window ha ha ha. I just play dumb. My devices will block your Tesla and your wife will never know you spent an hour at an AMP in Westminster or Garbage Grove.
My other favorite quote is from the movie London Has Fallen when the kidnapped President said to the dudes about to livestream his execution: "Technology. Only as good as the dumbfucks who use it" LOL.Jesus. This guy GPS's. Reminds me when I used to carry multiple cell phones for multiple reasons.
Ace McNasty
05-01-24, 11:08
Jamming signals is illegal as hell .Yeah no kidding.
Lift Her Up
05-01-24, 17:38
I've been having problems keeping it up with protection on, so I've dipped into (so to speak) the Korean BB market. Thus, I thought I should look into PrEP. I thought my best chance of being treated with supreme confidentiality was an LBGTQ+ clinic, so I went to Radiant Health in Irvine. Big mistake. They're part of or at least share with UCI Health. When the nurse or whoever was interviewing me she pulled up my UCI records! I politely got up and left.
I guess now everyone in the UCI realm will see that I was doing something at an LBGTQ+ place. The whole idea is to hide this from my SO, who has refused sex for decades.
What a betrayal of my trust!
Since joining this fine community in 2008 I have never written a post in anger, until today. And I am really angry.
But, thanks guys for letting me blow off some steam in front of this audience of friends.
Lift Her Up.
RedRoddddd
05-03-24, 21:08
First of all, glad to have you back. Yeah, I'm still working and have a couple more year to go before having enough saved to retire to SEA.
I have an incurable case of honesty and am not good at making up stuff. Plus, she's local, so I'm sure I'll run into her somewhere. I have stopped responding for a couple of months, but she still messages me once a week or so. We'll see how it goes.
Father time hasn't caught up with me yet. Couple of days ago with pussy du jour, willy was happy as a clam and performed his duties like a champ. Provider was excellent. I couldn't ask for anything more. Thank god us men don't have menopause.Just keep trying anal. I pumped a gallon into a gal just to get her to dump. Me. Had ta put ear plugs in my nose.
KalvinHobbs
05-09-24, 23:07
My friend once asked what would I do if I found out my wife was born a man. I responded what does it matter if you're in love. I guess if you want children with your genes it can factor in what you would do.
Guess not exact same scenario but if you're having fun who cares. I assume you're not trying to have kids so that's not a factor. I haven't seen Amy so have no clue but I have visited Thailand for the last 10+ years and some ladyboys are gorgeous. If I wasn't in Thailand I wouldn't suspect their were ladyboys and they generally stick together w / the not so pretty ones too so easier to notice. But still a fun back or forth discussion I enjoyed like the last time this topic came up LOL.
My friend once asked what would I do if I found out my wife was born a man. I responded what does it matter if you're in love. I guess if you want children with your genes it can factor in what you would do.
Guess not exact same scenario but if you're having fun who cares. I assume you're not trying to have kids so that's not a factor. I haven't seen Amy so have no clue but I have visited Thailand for the last 10+ years and some ladyboys are gorgeous. If I wasn't in Thailand I wouldn't suspect their were ladyboys and they generally stick together w / the not so pretty ones too so easier to notice. But still a fun back or forth discussion I enjoyed like the last time this topic came up LOL.Idk, but I would be traumatized forever if I found out I had sex with a man. My testosterone levels would completely drop from the shock. Not something I would want my guy friends finding out about for sure. I have to uphold myself to some standards.
KalvinHobbs
05-09-24, 23:26
Idk, but I would be traumatized forever if I found out I had sex with a man. My testosterone levels would completely drop from the shock. Not something I would want my guy friends finding out about for sure. I have to uphold myself to some standards.Yeah maybe that answer was just the romantic in me but who knows how I would really react if faced with that scenario.
Idk, but I would be traumatized forever if I found out I had sex with a man. My testosterone levels would completely drop from the shock. Not something I would want my guy friends finding out about for sure.FYI, last time we got started on this topic the admin deleted every comment. So don't want do sidetrack things just add a friendly insight about wanting what you want.
If you cannot tell a girl was born a man, she is beautiful and you enjoy your company, then I'd happily do it again. I will go further and say if she is at least a 7, I'd rather pay to have sex with her, than be paid myself to have sex with an ugly woman.
The only woman I know of like this, she was an 8 or 9. She's a model right now, appeared in a Thai drama. You cannot tell, not even by pussy. And I'd rather fuck her than 80% of women (to be clear rated 6 and under), who are fat, ugly, or at best plain. You couldn't pay me $1000 to sleep with an ugly woman (4 and under).
I have a list of 50+ women I've tried, and she is ranked #11. Kiko / Tomi / Pink is ranked #7, Mari / Namiko ranked #9 for comparison.
No judgement to those who are disgusted, I get it. Society puts a lot of tabboos out there and you are free to embrace it or not. That said, you are in charge of how you feel and are so don't let anyone else shame you for it.
FYI, last time we got started on this topic the admin deleted every comment. So don't want do sidetrack things just add a friendly insight about wanting what you want.
If you cannot tell a girl was born a man, she is beautiful and you enjoy your company, then I'd happily do it again. I will go further and say if she is at least a 7, I'd rather pay to have sex with her, than be paid myself to have sex with an ugly woman.
The only woman I know of like this, she was an 8 or 9. She's a model right now, appeared in a Thai drama. You cannot tell, not even by pussy. And I'd rather fuck her than 80% of women (to be clear rated 6 and under), who are fat, ugly, or at best plain. You couldn't pay me $1000 to sleep with an ugly woman (4 and under).
I have a list of 50+ women I've tried, and she is ranked #11. Kiko / Tomi / Pink is ranked #7, Mari / Namiko ranked #9 for comparison.
No judgement to those who are disgusted, I get it. Society puts a lot of tabboos out there and you are free to embrace it or not. That said, you are in charge of how you feel and are so don't let anyone else shame you for it.I have spent a lot of time in Bangkok, I don't judge guys who are open to experiences like this it's just not our niche.
That said, more than once I've been walking down Sukhamvit saw some ladyboy and thought "it should be illegal for a guy to look that hot. ".
A2.
Lend me some perspective guys.
Seen this woman several times. Last time I went, I heard some music playing from the side of the bed, in the gap between the bed and wall. I peeked over and saw another woman, younger-- maybe 20-22-- watching videos on her phone, laying on the ground.
Seems like her coworker / daughter / whoever didn't want to wait outside so she just hid herself poorly.
At the time I was weirded out but kind of drunk, so I rolled with it. Though the second nut was a little difficult to bust.
That said, there's a reason I saw this woman as many times as I did and honestly, I want to go back.
After that awkward experience I swore I wouldn't return but. You know how it is.
My question for you all is, would this be a deal breaker? Would I be a sucker for going back, or is it no big deal? I've had a woman's friend wait in the bathroom before but on the ground by the side of the bed was a new experience.
Lend me some perspective guys.
Seen this woman several times. Last time I went, I heard some music playing from the side of the bed, in the gap between the bed and wall. I peeked over and saw another woman, younger-- maybe 20-22-- watching videos on her phone, laying on the ground.
Seems like her coworker / daughter / whoever didn't want to wait outside so she just hid herself poorly.
At the time I was weirded out but kind of drunk, so I rolled with it. Though the second nut was a little difficult to bust.
That said, there's a reason I saw this woman as many times as I did and honestly, I want to go back.
After that awkward experience I swore I wouldn't return but. You know how it is.
My question for you all is, would this be a deal breaker? Would I be a sucker for going back, or is it no big deal? I've had a woman's friend wait in the bathroom before but on the ground by the side of the bed was a new experience.Hold up. So she was near you on the ground and you just jerked off? If that's the case stop that shit and socialize with her dude.
BSouthgate
05-20-24, 15:06
Lend me some perspective guys.
Seen this woman several times. Last time I went, I heard some music playing from the side of the bed, in the gap between the bed and wall. I peeked over and saw another woman, younger-- maybe 20-22-- watching videos on her phone, laying on the ground.
Seems like her coworker / daughter / whoever didn't want to wait outside so she just hid herself poorly.
At the time I was weirded out but kind of drunk, so I rolled with it. Though the second nut was a little difficult to bust.
That said, there's a reason I saw this woman as many times as I did and honestly, I want to go back.
After that awkward experience I swore I wouldn't return but. You know how it is..Why don't you just ask your lover who the other woman is? My guess is a roommate. She might also be a coworker. This might be an opportunity for a threesome if you are into that. If the other woman's presence bothers you, you can ask your friend for more privacy.
Why don't you just ask your lover who the other woman is? My guess is a roommate. She might also be a coworker. This might be an opportunity for a threesome if you are into that. If the other woman's presence bothers you, you can ask your friend for more privacy.I think you are right. The lady is middle-age so I was a little weirded out by the idea that her college-age daughter was just hanging out on the ground near the bed as I went to town on her mom. It seems a bit more likely she's just a coworker.
Hold up. So she was near you on the ground and you just jerked off? If that's the case stop that shit and socialize with her dude.Not quite. It was a hotel room with two beds. We were on the bed closer to the back of the room. Between the bed and the wall of the room, there was about a 1. 5 foot gap. After the first round, before the second, I heard music from the side of the bed and thought my phone fell down or something. I looked over the side of the bed and the girl was laying down on her back on the ground, fully clothed, looking at her phone. She didn't see me. I didn't say anything and stayed on the bed. The woman I came to see started touching me pretty soon after so I just sort of ignored it.
Seen this woman several times. Last time I went, I heard some music playing from the side of the bed, in the gap between the bed and wall. I peeked over and saw another woman, younger-- maybe 20-22-- watching videos on her phone, laying on the ground.
Who is this? Booker? Some of us might want to see. Might be an unaddressed kink!
I went back. My package is sore.
Went into her new hotel room ready to check behind the bed, but the gap was empty this time. Went to the bathroom, and when I saw the shower curtain drawn, I had a feeling that the bathtub was the hider's new spot.
I always like to wash up a bit even though I had just showered, so I pulled the curtain back to wet a towel. Yep, she's there again. Got a better look this time and I think she's actually somewhere in her late 30's. Wearing obvious hooker attire.
The lady first told me (through Google Translate) "sorry, we are sharing a room due to cost," and later elaborated that it was her friend from Spain on vacation. That part seemed like a weird fib-- maybe she thought it would make me more comfortable. She was pretty obviously a coworker sharing a room, but whatever.
I was totally fine with her sequestered in the bathtub-- knowing now that the mystery woman was indeed not her daughter, waiting for her mom to finish getting pounded. Something about the odd situation made it hotter for me so as I said, I left extra sore. I had a hard time walking down the stairs. I guess the lesson is to keep an open mind?
James D 2004
05-21-24, 09:59
Lend me some perspective guys.
Seen this woman several times. Last time I went, I heard some music playing from the side of the bed, in the gap between the bed and wall. I peeked over and saw another woman, younger-- maybe 20-22-- watching videos on her phone, laying on the ground.
Seems like her coworker / daughter / whoever didn't want to wait outside so she just hid herself poorly.
At the time I was weirded out but kind of drunk, so I rolled with it. Though the second nut was a little difficult to bust.
That said, there's a reason I saw this woman as many times as I did and honestly, I want to go back.
After that awkward experience I swore I wouldn't return but. You know how it is.
My question for you all is, would this be a deal breaker? Would I be a sucker for going back, or is it no big deal? I've had a woman's friend wait in the bathroom before but on the ground by the side of the bed was a new experience.What's the harm? What you don't like about it? This is unique but wanting to stay in the bathroom with or without permission is much more common. I always turn them down. Escorts never do that. SW much more often when they are traveling. But it's a security risk as the other may go through your belongings or open the door for someone else.
It's safer working and traveling in pairs or more. But it's a hassle sharing a room doing it all day, finding another place to sit for an hour. Depending on time and place, it may not be safe to hang out alone.
It's a kind of disrespect. But in a safe hotel and you know they are not plotting something, I'm fine with it.
Plasma Spray
05-21-24, 14:35
Time for a threesome. ?
BSouthgate
05-21-24, 14:44
I went back. My package is sore.
Went into her new hotel room ready to check behind the bed, but the gap was empty this time. Went to the bathroom, and when I saw the shower curtain drawn, I had a feeling that the bathtub was the hider's new spot.
I always like to wash up a bit even though I had just showered, so I pulled the curtain back to wet a towel. Yep, she's there again. Got a better look this time and I think she's actually somewhere in her late 30's. Wearing obvious hooker attire.
The lady first told me (through Google Translate) "sorry, we are sharing a room due to cost," and later elaborated that it was her friend from Spain on vacation. That part seemed like a weird fib-- maybe she thought it would make me more comfortable. She was pretty obviously a coworker sharing a room, but whatever.
I was totally fine with her sequestered in the bathtub-- knowing now that the mystery woman was indeed not her daughter, waiting for her mom to finish getting pounded. Something about the odd situation made it hotter for me so as I said, I left extra sore. I had a hard time walking down the stairs. I guess the lesson is to keep an open mind?I would insist that the girl in the tub join the fun. I would offer either no additional tip or only a small one, say 40. Otherwise, I would walk away. I bet that they would accept this deal. Was your target lady a SW or an escort?
Lift Her Up
06-12-24, 16:23
This is in response to post 36576 In the MP thread by HoDough, the gonorrhea scare. This is called NGU, non-gonococcal urethritis. It's any infection in the urinary tract that is not the clap.
Back in 1981 a civvy I was seeing for sex told me she had NGU and she might have gotten it from me, or one of the other two guys she was seeing. I said well I don't think but maybe so I'll get myself checked. I didn't have it. But I did gain status with her because the other two guys swore up and down that it couldn't possibly have been them, I was the only one to fess up that there was a bit of a chance it was me. Hahaha.
Pardon me for tooting my own horn but I've never told this story before and this is the only forum I might do that in.
Lift Her Up.
Lift Her Up
06-12-24, 17:35
Do the hookers sometimes really enjoy sex? This has been discussed in a few points recently in the MP thread.
My contribution to the discussion is to suggest two books. The first is Martha Stein, Lovers friends slaves, the nine male sexual types and their psycho-sexual transactions with call girls. Stein says she observed about 3,000 sex acts, perhaps exceeding Masters and Johnson's record. The second is Alexa Albert, Brothel, the Mustant Ranch and its women.
I put a lot of credence in women who have spend a whole lot of time with sex workers, talking with them.
Lift Her Up.
FarFarAway
06-12-24, 18:25
Do the hookers sometimes really enjoy sex? This has been discussed in a few points recently in the MP thread.
My contribution to the discussion is to suggest two books. The first is Martha Stein, Lovers friends slaves, the nine male sexual types and their psycho-sexual transactions with call girls. Stein says she observed about 3,000 sex acts, perhaps exceeding Masters and Johnson's record. The second is Alexa Albert, Brothel, the Mustant Ranch and its women.
I put a lot of credence in women who have spend a whole lot of time with sex workers, talking with them.
Lift Her Up.Long ago, an ex-hooker wrote a book, The Happy Hooker, and became a sex columnist in Penthouse. Xaviera Hollander. Consult her writings.
Do the hookers sometimes really enjoy sex? This has been discussed in a few points recently in the MP thread.
My contribution to the discussion is to suggest two books. The first is Martha Stein, Lovers friends slaves, the nine male sexual types and their psycho-sexual transactions with call girls. Stein says she observed about 3,000 sex acts, perhaps exceeding Masters and Johnson's record. The second is Alexa Albert, Brothel, the Mustant Ranch and its women.
I put a lot of credence in women who have spend a whole lot of time with sex workers, talking with them.
Lift Her Up.I've read various articles where sex workers were interviewed. Some of them, most notably the higher end escorts, do enjoy the sex. Some will even claim that they actually orgasm during sessions. Others are just cum buckets. It's hard to imagine an AMP girl who spreads her legs 10 times a day actually enjoying it, and the majority probably don't. But on the flip side I could see a $300/ hour escort who only sees a handful of guys per week enjoying at least some of the sex. The spectrum is pretty broad.
I've read various articles where sex workers were interviewed. Some of them, most notably the higher end escorts, do enjoy the sex. Some will even claim that they actually orgasm during sessions. Others are just cum buckets. It's hard to imagine an AMP girl who spreads her legs 10 times a day actually enjoying it, and the majority probably don't. But on the flip side I could see a $300/ hour escort who only sees a handful of guys per week enjoying at least some of the sex. The spectrum is pretty broad.I haven't seen her in about 10-12 years now, but VietKim certainly liked to have sex. I asked her if she had orgasms occasionally, and she said she did. Her eyes would roll back into her head, and if she was faking it, she should win an Oscar.
BSouthgate
06-12-24, 22:08
Do the hookers sometimes really enjoy sex? This has been discussed in a few points recently in the MP thread.
My contribution to the discussion is to suggest two books. The first is Martha Stein, Lovers friends slaves, the nine male sexual types and their psycho-sexual transactions with call girls. Stein says she observed about 3,000 sex acts, perhaps exceeding Masters and Johnson's record. The second is Alexa Albert, Brothel, the Mustant Ranch and its women.
I put a lot of credence in women who have spend a whole lot of time with sex workers, talking with them.
Lift Her Up.Thanks for sharing.
I am a retired scientist and have used the scientific method in all aspects of life. This includes sex with prostitutes. Prostitution is a subject that should be approached objectively and without bias. Unfortunately, so many "scholarly" reports on this subject are written through a highly biased lens and with a biased agenda. The lens is that female prostitutes are victims of evil men, and the agenda is to eliminate prostitution somehow.
Encyclopedia Britannica: Prostitution is the practice of engaging in indiscriminate sexual activity with someone who is not a spouse or a friend in exchange for immediate payment in money or other valuables. Prostitutes may be female or male, and prostitution may entail heterosexual or homosexual activity, but historically, most prostitutes have been women, and most clients are men.
Prostitution is not purchasing women or their bodies or the use of their bodies. It is the exchange of money for sexual services. When I pay for a haircut, I am not buying the barber's hands. When I pay for a hand job, I am not buying the masseuse's hands. I am paying them for their skill and service.
Do hookers enjoy sex with clients? From my experience, sometimes yes and sometimes no. Probably more yes than no. But, as a scientist, I go to the data.
There are many carefully done survey research studies showing that women in all parts of the world engage in prostitution because it is both lucrative and pleasurable work. For example:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...nxYFknDvYOzRKo
https://www.cogitatiopress.com/socia...view/2644/1517
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full...23Rt8pXdpnrhiw
These reports confirm that hookers report considerable enjoyment from their work. One study elaborated on the kind of sex that Chinese street girls performed with their customers. The girls rated cunnilingus and vaginal sex with clients as almost always enjoyable and fellatio as sometimes enjoyable.
Here is a video of a Chinese street pro and her customer enjoying sex in a run-down brothel room.
https://www.homepornking.com/video/6...0/777520/?th=1
Larry Horse, a user of the porn tube site Xh. Ter, used a novel research approach to study this issue. Horse asked X. Ter users to view videos showing hookers' faces while they had sex with clients (Group 1) and the faces of wives having sex with their husbands (Group 2). Horse did not tell the users which women were in either group. The 118 viewers answered the question: "Is she enjoying or is she faking enjoyment?" The viewers did not know which faces represented hookers and which represented wives.
Furthermore, according to Horse, most of the wives and hookers were unaware of being imaged during their sexual experiences, so they were not performing for the camera like pornstars.
The results of this excellent research study showed that prostitutes do generally enjoy sex with their clients and that their enjoyment is not less than that of wives with their husbands. I urge you all to read the entire study report here:
https://xhamster.com/users/larryhorse
It is interesting to view one of the hooker videos that Larry Horse used for this epic study:
https://motherless.com/A66DE5E
And to view one of the wife videos:
https://xhamster.com/videos/chinese-...action-1218557
Judge for yourselves which woman is enjoying her sexual experience more, the hooker or the wife.
Do clients enjoy that the hookers are enjoying? Or why should we, who are buying the service, care about the enjoyment of the seller?
Based on conversations with dozens of these women and reading the reports in this and other fora, I am sure most punters want their partners to enjoy. If not, there would not be so much DATY. What is the point of going down on a potentially stinky part of a woman's body if not to make her convulse in orgasmic joy?
There is a potential evolutionary reason for our wanting our hooker partners to enjoy their encounters with us. In humans, sex has been shown to have a bonding as well as a reproductive function. See, for example, the excellent book by Christopher Ryan:
https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Dawn-Stray-Modern-Relationships-ebook/dp/B007679QTG
This book is free on Kindle. When we fuck, even with a hooker, we instinctively want to create a lasting bond with our partner.
Thank you for reading this. I would love to get more input from my brothers.
DarkRoomDaddy
06-14-24, 14:11
I've read various articles where sex workers were interviewed. Some of them, most notably the higher end escorts, do enjoy the sex. Some will even claim that they actually orgasm during sessions. Others are just cum buckets. It's hard to imagine an AMP girl who spreads her legs 10 times a day actually enjoying it, and the majority probably don't. But on the flip side I could see a $300/ hour escort who only sees a handful of guys per week enjoying at least some of the sex. The spectrum is pretty broad.Well how would we feel doing this same job? We all love a good session. So what if MMS said that we could get a job. Every Asian woman who came in, we had to flirt with her, and get turned on, and give her an orgasm. Most assuredly, these customers are not going to be 25 year old super models. They are more like 50 year old plain janes packing a dozen or two extra pounds. Half a dozen of them come in a day. And if we are not nice and flirty with them, they might give a $20 tip or even a dine-and-dash. How much do you think we would enjoy that sex? And now imagine doing it for years. Maybe never having any woman we were actually attracted to. And feeling guilty that we are selling our bodies rather than doing honorable work. How much job satisfaction would we have?
I knew a woman who dated a gynecologist. A guy who inspects pussies all day long. Well he had a hard time getting aroused. In his particular case, he liked slapping this girl across the face during sex, and probably some more serious S&M. She didn't find out, because she called me to pick her up and help her get out of that situation.
I lived in OC for a bit when I was a teenager and still have friends there, so I check in on this board and post reviews about my experiences when I am there. But I'm curious about some history in the area. For the older mongers, how did you guys find out about spots in OC before this board existed and how did you know what to pay?
Lift Her Up
06-14-24, 18:12
I lived in OC for a bit when I was a teenager and still have friends there, so I check in on this board and post reviews about my experiences when I am there. But I'm curious about some history in the area. For the older mongers, how did you guys find out about spots in OC before this board existed and how did you know what to pay?I used the now-gone weekly newspaper, The Los Angeles Free Press. I paid what they seemed to ask, and if it was too much, I didn't get the extras. In those days, HJ. 15, so when they'd ask. 25 I'd just decline.
Lift Her Up.
Lift Her Up
06-14-24, 18:13
Well how would we feel doing this same job? We all love a good session. So what if MMS said that we could get a job. Every Asian woman who came in, we had to flirt with her, and get turned on, and give her an orgasm. Most assuredly, these customers are not going to be 25 year old super models. They are more like 50 year old plain janes packing a dozen or two extra pounds. Half a dozen of them come in a day. And if we are not nice and flirty with them, they might give a $20 tip or even a dine-and-dash. How much do you think we would enjoy that sex? And now imagine doing it for years. Maybe never having any woman we were actually attracted to. And feeling guilty that we are selling our bodies rather than doing honorable work. How much job satisfaction would we have?
I knew a woman who dated a gynecologist. A guy who inspects pussies all day long. Well he had a hard time getting aroused. In his particular case, he liked slapping this girl across the face during sex, and probably some more serious S&M. She didn't find out, because she called me to pick her up and help her get out of that situation.Very very well said.
Lift Her Up.
I lived in OC for a bit when I was a teenager and still have friends there, so I check in on this board and post reviews about my experiences when I am there. But I'm curious about some history in the area. For the older mongers, how did you guys find out about spots in OC before this board existed and how did you know what to pay?My mongering history goes back to the early 90's when I started my career and moved to this area. In those days there was no internet. Finding an AMP consisted of looking up "massage" in the yellow pages of your local phone book. There were usually several "oriental massage" places, or shops advertising "all Asian staff" or "international staff" or "nice girls," or something along those lines. It was always pretty clear what they were selling. And then there were the local "newspapers" - the ones that you had to put a quarter in the machine on the sidewalk to buy. The ones whose front pages had pictures of topless girls with stars covering their nipples. You'd wait until nobody was around, then quickly (and awkwardly) dash to the machine, drop a quarter in, and hope to hell the thing didn't jam so you could grab a paper and get the hell out of Dodge. LA X-Press was one of the more prominent ones. It would be full of classified ads from providers, along with big full page color ads for strip clubs and various places like the infamous Paris House in Hollywood which I believe still exists.
At one point when people actually started using the Internet (via dial-up usually, at 300 bps), I remember a site popping up called paranoia.com. I believe it was a precursor to this site and it contained info of not only prostitution but also illegal drugs. Some time later, worldsexguide came along. It was basically this platform except it contained mongering info for the entire planet. And then at some time later, worldsexguide split into USASG and ISG.
I lived in OC for a bit when I was a teenager and still have friends there, so I check in on this board and post reviews about my experiences when I am there. But I'm curious about some history in the area. For the older mongers, how did you guys find out about spots in OC before this board existed and how did you know what to pay?We had Backpage and the Craigslist Personals before those online resources were liable for pandering. Before they were shut down there was a lot of mostly accurate info to help in making smart decisions when exploring. After would post our finds on RM, MPR and this site.
BSouthgate
06-14-24, 23:34
Well how would we feel doing this same job? We all love a good session. So what if MMS said that we could get a job. Every Asian woman who came in, we had to flirt with her, and get turned on, and give her an orgasm. Most assuredly, these customers are not going to be 25 year old super models. They are more like 50 year old plain janes packing a dozen or two extra pounds. Half a dozen of them come in a day. And if we are not nice and flirty with them, they might give a $20 tip or even a dine-and-dash. How much do you think we would enjoy that sex? And now imagine doing it for years. Maybe never having any woman we were actually attracted to. And feeling guilty that we are selling our bodies rather than doing honorable work. How much job satisfaction would we have?
I knew a woman who dated a gynecologist. A guy who inspects pussies all day long. Well he had a hard time getting aroused. In his particular case, he liked slapping this girl across the face during sex, and probably some more serious S&M. She didn't find out, because she called me to pick her up and help her get out of that situation.How many mongers visit the grannies in Westminster and pay up to $200 for FS? If those same mongers did the job that Dark Room Daddy describes, they would be paid for the same experience.
BTW, I have not yet seen a 25 year old super model in any of the parlors in OC.
I lived in OC for a bit when I was a teenager and still have friends there, so I check in on this board and post reviews about my experiences when I am there. But I'm curious about some history in the area. For the older mongers, how did you guys find out about spots in OC before this board existed and how did you know what to pay?Like some other people have mentioned, in the early days you were at the mercy of classified paper ads and trying local massage parlors until you found one that had service and that you liked. There were early advertising sites like Thatmall, City-Source, and CV. TER was the first prominent review board, but there were local ones like Desperado's Blue Board, the two "Trooth" boards, which eventually morphed into HX.
Before those review boards appeared or even before you knew to try the online advertising boards, the whole dynamic was scam city. Orange county was all about cash and dash, no real services, and scam phone banks for "escorts. " There was a whole thing where the cops were ok with these agencies existing and scamming people. So, without boards a lot of people went through the experience I did where they got scammed out of money for basically nothing the first time they tried to see someone. Once you hit '99 the dynamic got better with board advice.
There was a period in the late 90's where there were some really nice massage parlors in the Costa Mesa / South Coast Plaza area. The standards of service were different then, with BBBJ being rare, let alone anything else. But the girls were SMOKING hot at the the time. It was expected that most Korean girls were actually in their 20's and most were her on tourist or student visas and were really chill. There was always a fun tension when you waited in the room not knowing who would come in, until you met favorites that you would request. My all time favorite girl at that time was Minku, was a little 5'0" girl with a gorgeous face, super skinny, with natural DDs like a living anime character. She was super cute and fun and I was a dumbass at the time and didn't pick up the hints that she wanted to hang out with me outside of work, since I was a late 20's kid at the time, including her giving me a personal e-mail address.
That same place I saw a girl who was also pretty hot and clearly raised here. Fun, snarky, and foul mouthed. Imagine my surprise when I used Thatmall a few months later to see the infamous Miss K and it turned out to be the same girl, who was also a porn star who went by Mika Choix. I was a regular for several years. She had this whole thing where she wanted to just try all aspects of the sex industry for fun. Probably my all time favorite for a mix of service, personality, and looks. A typical session with her at her place was hanging out, a massage, and then her edging me with a BBBJ for well over an hour. Those were the days!
In the 2000's the OC review boards grew through the "Trooth" boards until they finally turned in HX. That's when I started making a bit more money and could see more of the porn girls who were on HX and in other places. That was a fun time vs now. There were more personal connections and some of the dynamics were borderline like the modern sugar feel, where there was less rushing and more of a casual connection.
The above is not meant as a "brag," because I think that was a pretty common experience for guys at the time. You hobby a bunch and there were some real gems. I think maybe it's easier to find good experiences these days, but harder to find great experiences, if that makes sense. I wish I could take the girls and attitudes from the 2000's with modern menus to get HOBBY VOLTRON.
Everything kind of consolidated in the 2010's to now. The Korean girls went to a better setup with the apartments, but for various reasons the younger girls stopped coming to the states, so you have the more MILF vibe now. There are still some indies in HX, but most girls have consolidated into a bunch of agencies, some of which are still pretty good. But that all ended up pushing me to mostly deal with the sugar girls. A lot more work, but when you find one the dynamic is great!
DarkRoomDaddy
06-15-24, 02:34
I used the now-gone weekly newspaper, The Los Angeles Free Press. I paid what they seemed to ask, and if it was too much, I didn't get the extras. In those days, HJ. 15, so when they'd ask. 25 I'd just decline.
Lift Her Up.I recall the free press too. But those back pages just looked too sleazy and dodgy.
I used the tried-and-true method of driving to a dodgy part of town and looking for any kind of Asian massage. The older and dirtier the furniture the better. Also appealing was an always locked door that you needed to get buzzed in, prices for 30 minutes of massage, and being greeting with "hey baby". Turn offs were any place well decorate with nice smelling aromas, employees wearing nurses scrubs or other uniforms, and high end furniture.
Lift Her Up
06-15-24, 18:15
I recall the free press too. But those back pages just looked too sleazy and dodgy.
I used the tried-and-true method of driving to a dodgy part of town and looking for any kind of Asian massage. The older and dirtier the furniture the better. Also appealing was an always locked door that you needed to get buzzed in, prices for 30 minutes of massage, and being greeting with "hey baby". Turn offs were any place well decorate with nice smelling aromas, employees wearing nurses scrubs or other uniforms, and high end furniture.My first MP visit was 1971. The Immigration Reform Act of 1965 went into effect in 1968. MP girls were all White then. I didn't encounter an Asian until 1985. Then they flooded the market with their numbers and their usually superior service, at least in my opinion. This held donation levels down. The first time I was offered FS was in 1974, by a White girl, and I was quoted. 4. Years later I remember being quoted $ by a White. But in 1985 the Asian girls did FS for. 4 at least in SoCal, even though the CPI more than doubled from 1974 to 1985. I've been with Asians ever since, maybe an occasional Latina.
And yes, in my earlier post I forgot to mention the telephone directories too, what a trip those were.
Lift Her UP.
BSouthgate
06-15-24, 20:12
Like some other people have mentioned, in the early days you were at the mercy of classified paper ads and trying local massage parlors until you found one that had service and that you liked. There were early advertising sites like Thatmall, City-Source, and CV. TER was the first prominent review board, but there were local ones like Desperado's Blue Board, the two "Trooth" boards, which eventually morphed into HX.
Before those review boards appeared or even before you knew to try the online advertising boards, the whole dynamic was scam city. Orange county was all about cash and dash, no real services, and scam phone banks for "escorts. " There was a whole thing where the cops were ok with these agencies existing and scamming people. So, without boards a lot of people went through the experience I did where they got scammed out of money for basically nothing the first time they tried to see someone. Once you hit '99 the dynamic got better with board advice.
There was a period in the late 90's where there were some really nice massage parlors in the Costa Mesa / South Coast Plaza area. The standards of service were different then, with BBBJ being rare, let alone anything else. But the girls were SMOKING hot at the the time. It was expected that most Korean girls were actually in their 20's and most were her on tourist or student visas and were really chill. There was always a fun tension when you waited in the room not knowing who would come in, until you met favorites that you would request. My all time favorite girl at that time was Minku, was a little 5'0" girl with a gorgeous face, super skinny, with natural DDs like a living anime character. She was super cute and fun and I was a dumbass at the time and didn't pick up the hints that she wanted to hang out with me outside of work, since I was a late 20's kid at the time, including her giving me a personal e-mail address.
That same place I saw a girl who was also pretty hot and clearly raised here. Fun, snarky, and foul mouthed. Imagine my surprise when I used Thatmall a few months later to see the infamous Miss K and it turned out to be the same girl, who was also a porn star who went by Mika Choix. I was a regular for several years. She had this whole thing where she wanted to just try all aspects of the sex industry for fun. Probably my all time favorite for a mix of service, personality, and looks. A typical session with her at her place was hanging out, a massage, and then her edging me with a BBBJ for well over an hour. Those were the days!
In the 2000's the OC review boards grew through the "Trooth" boards until they finally turned in HX. That's when I started making a bit more money and could see more of the porn girls who were on HX and in other places. That was a fun time vs now. There were more personal connections and some of the dynamics were borderline like the modern sugar feel, where there was less rushing and more of a casual connection.
The above is not meant as a "brag," because I think that was a pretty common experience for guys at the time. You hobby a bunch and there were some real gems. I think maybe it's easier to find good experiences these days, but harder to find great experiences, if that makes sense. I wish I could take the girls and attitudes from the 2000's with modern menus to get HOBBY VOLTRON.
Everything kind of consolidated in the 2010's to now. The Korean girls went to a better setup with the apartments, but for various reasons the younger girls stopped coming to the states, so you have the more MILF vibe now. There are still some indies in HX, but most girls have consolidated into a bunch of agencies, some of which are still pretty good. But that all ended up pushing me to mostly deal with the sugar girls. A lot more work, but when you find one the dynamic is great!In the early 90's, there was a Korean AMP on Baker Street in Newport or CM. I went there at midday. My masseuse was a 20-something, slightly overweight Korean angel. While I was supine on the table with my face in the hole, I felt this delightful sensation of her tongue flicking my anus. Wow, did that feel heavenly? My introduction to rimming.
There was a period in the late 90's where there were some really nice massage parlors in the Costa Mesa / South Coast Plaza area. !Yup, I was a regular ay many of them by SCP!
There was one on 2nd floor by the Mcdonalds by the old Sports Authority and one down the street in the Office building just next to the 73 Fwy. All we're korean and always bare love making man those we're the days.
Plus, all the one by John Wayne Airport on Birch and Dove St.
BSouthgate
06-16-24, 02:00
Yup, I was a regular ay many of them by SCP!
There was one on 2nd floor by the Mcdonalds by the old Sports Authority and one down the street in the Office building just next to the 73 Fwy. All we're korean and always bare love making man those we're the days.
Plus, all the one by John Wayne Airport on Birch and Dove St.Yes, that was where that tender Korean princess introduced me to the joys of rimming.
James D 2004
06-16-24, 11:50
In the early 90's, there was a Korean AMP on Baker Street in Newport or CM. I went there at midday. My masseuse was a 20-something, slightly overweight Korean angel. While I was supine on the table with my face in the hole, I felt this delightful sensation of her tongue flicking my anus. Wow, did that feel heavenly? My introduction to rimming.Oh yes, the OC register classified at the turn of the century. I got some no-touch dancers but once I got lucky. The pretty teen white girl was fresh off the bus. She upsell me FS but they weren't allowed to take condoms into the room. So we did it bare.
Once I got a 19-year-old dancer with Indian ancestry (India in South Asia). I thought she was another no-touch dancer. As usual, I had to sit safely with my back on the bed headboard. Her face was average and she had the body of an average 19-year-old, eye candy enough. In the middle of her naked dance, she got on all fours with her butt facing me. Then she started reversing slowly towards me. When her asshole was about a foot from my face, I closed my eyes in horror as I was never that close to anyone's asshole. I opened my eyes when her full ass was on my face.
For the first time, I looked at someone's asshole right before my eyes. It was beautiful. For one, the starfish was so tight that nothing could have come out. That's better than pussy in a way. It doesn't smell. And I couldn't resist licking it while shivering a bit because of the strange emotion. From then on, that is another thing I'm looking for. That also explains my pedo tendency. Delicate teen girls are more likely to have a tight good looking asshole. I won't go there unless they are really HYA Koreans, most not. So I am a loyal patron of the Enclave (RIP) crew.
My first MP visit was 1971. The Immigration Reform Act of 1965 went into effect in 1968. MP girls were all White then. I didn't encounter an Asian until 1985. Then they flooded the market with their numbers and their usually superior service, at least in my opinion. This held donation levels down. The first time I was offered FS was in 1974, by a White girl, and I was quoted. 4. Years later I remember being quoted $ by a White. But in 1985 the Asian girls did FS for. 4 at least in SoCal, even though the CPI more than doubled from 1974 to 1985. I've been with Asians ever since, maybe an occasional Latina.
And yes, in my earlier post I forgot to mention the telephone directories too, what a trip those were.
Lift Her UP.In the early 90's I picked up one of the infamous newspapers. I think it was LA X-Press. One of the classifieds in the back said something like "I'm a real college girl, not a pro. I give a sensual full body rub at my place nude. " They were operating out of large mansion in Bel Air. I made an appointment and was greeted by an absolutely gorgeous white 20-something year old. She literally could have just walked off the campus of UCLA. I seriously was interested in dating her as I was about 22 or 23 at the time. Don't think I didn't try. LOL. Anyway, the service wasn't anything spectacular by today's standards, but she did get completely naked and rub her oiled up tits all over my body. I was allowed to touch her everywhere except between her legs, and she finished me with a HJ. I saw her multiple times hoping to get more and even trying (unsuccessfully) to get a real date with her. She was without a doubt the most gorgeous provider I've ever been with. It was early in my mongering days and I didn't even realize you could get a BJ or even FS for about the same amount of money a lot closer to home. Her HJ wasn't even that good. As a matter of fact on my first visit I had to show her how to finish me off. But for some strange reason, probably a combo of looks and personality, she remains one of my ATFs to this day. I really wish places like that existed today, where you could get a young whire homegrown girl next door type like that who gets naked and gives a HJ or BJ. I don't need FS or even want it from most providers.
BSouthgate
06-17-24, 01:01
Do the hookers sometimes really enjoy sex? This has been discussed in a few points recently in the MP thread.
My contribution to the discussion is to suggest two books. The first is Martha Stein, Lovers friends slaves, the nine male sexual types and their psycho-sexual transactions with call girls. Stein says she observed about 3,000 sex acts, perhaps exceeding Masters and Johnson's record. The second is Alexa Albert, Brothel, the Mustant Ranch and its women.
I put a lot of credence in women who have spend a whole lot of time with sex workers, talking with them.
Lift Her Up.Stein book out of print. I ordered Albert book on Amazon.
Thanks for the references.
DarkRoomDaddy
06-17-24, 10:35
Stein book out of print. I ordered Albert book on Amazon.
Thanks for the references.Someone should find a Chinese translator, and interview the actual girls working the local shops.
The problem with a western woman writing a book about Asian sex workers is that they bring tons of baggage to their viewpoint. You might recall the billionaire owner of the New Englan Patriots got busted for getting a HE in Florida. The newspapers started talking about how bad it was that these women were trafficked and implied they were held against their will and forced to do sex acts with disgusting American men. But when they started poking around, they found there were no guards or goons keeping these girls from fleeing. No one was beaten or threatened. They were just women who chose to come to the US to make 100 times what they would make back in China.
Our society is increasingly anti-male, anti-older male, and any male sexual urge is disgusting. Women are all virtuous or victims, and their monetizing their sexuality is a form of freedom and self-expression, and their sexual urges are beautiful.
So what it would take is a Chinese speaking Chinese woman to interview these ladies. There are some work conditions that don't meet local legal standards, but they do meet Chinese standards in China, and so they are all fine with those rules and never complain about them. More than half of Chinese don't make a $500 a year, and these girls make $1000 a week. Who complains about making 100 times your normal salary? If you were making $100 k here, and you were offered a job making $10,000,000 a year working in a foreign country, would you be complaining?
Of course Asian women enjoy sex too. But female sexuality is much more restrained. The culture is more conservative in many ways. More generally, Asian culture has much more self-control in all ways. How many times have you seen a Chinese woman drinking a coke or eating french fries? Look at how thin most of these women are. But they don't go to gyms, they just don't eat that much.
BSouthgate
06-17-24, 13:08
Someone should find a Chinese translator, and interview the actual girls working the local shops.
The problem with a western woman writing a book about Asian sex workers is that they bring tons of baggage to their viewpoint. You might recall the billionaire owner of the New Englan Patriots got busted for getting a HE in Florida. The newspapers started talking about how bad it was that these women were trafficked and implied they were held against their will and forced to do sex acts with disgusting American men. But when they started poking around, they found there were no guards or goons keeping these girls from fleeing. No one was beaten or threatened. They were just women who chose to come to the US to make 100 times what they would make back in China.
Our society is increasingly anti-male, anti-older male, and any male sexual urge is disgusting. Women are all virtuous or victims, and their monetizing their sexuality is a form of freedom and self-expression, and their sexual urges are beautiful..Almost all accurate.
At least all of this is approaching the truth. Agree about the Robert Kraft stuff.
I spent years living in China. The increase in income for these women is not 100 times but more like five times. Remember, many of them, despite what they tell you, did sex work in China. Still, you are right. They retain their frugal lifestyles when they immigrate but earn much more.
I agree that female sexuality is restrained, but it is only restrained because of cultural pressures, not because of biology. In primitive hunter-gatherer societies, women often have multiple male partners. That increases the probability of bearing children. Read "Sex at Dawn" by Christopher Ryan. Women, on average, masturbate about as much as we do. There is higher variability in female sexuality. I have had one wife who wanted sex several times a day and another who never wanted sex. Similarly, with my former girlfriends. Those who chose prostitution because they are on the high end.
In China, both men and women are thinner than in the US. This is due to increased activity levels. Unfortunately, this trend is changing for the worse.
BSouthgate
06-17-24, 19:42
Well how would we feel doing this same job? We all love a good session. So what if MMS said that we could get a job. Every Asian woman who came in, we had to flirt with her, and get turned on, and give her an orgasm. Most assuredly, these customers are not going to be 25 year old super models. They are more like 50 year old plain janes packing a dozen or two extra pounds. Half a dozen of them come in a day. And if we are not nice and flirty with them, they might give a $20 tip or even a dine-and-dash. How much do you think we would enjoy that sex? And now imagine doing it for years. Maybe never having any woman we were actually attracted to. And feeling guilty that we are selling our bodies rather than doing honorable work. How much job satisfaction would we have?
I knew a woman who dated a gynecologist. A guy who inspects pussies all day long. Well he had a hard time getting aroused. In his particular case, he liked slapping this girl across the face during sex, and probably some more serious S&M. She didn't find out, because she called me to pick her up and help her get out of that situation.It was 2006. My girlfriend, Jasmine, and I went to a massage / sauna place in a small Beijing hotel. I was about 64 years old then, and she was about 48. Jasmine was thin with a plain, very Asian face and small breasts and ass. She was modestly attractive but not beautiful.
They gave us two massage beds about two meters apart. We undressed to our underwear. Jasmine wore a bra and panties, and I wore boxer shorts.
A short, cute girl and a rather tall, handsome young man entered the room. The guy was her masseur, and the girl was my masseuse. They were both in their twenties.
Jasmine's therapist asked her to lie face down, and my masseuse had me lie supine, looking at the ceiling. She put a hot towel over my eyes and began massaging my legs.
After about ten minutes of work on my feet, calves, and thighs, my masseuse's tiny hands found their way under my shorts to more sensitive parts of my body. Delicious sensation. At about the same time, I heard Jasmine moaning pleasant moans.
My masseuse whispered in my ear that, for a small tip, she could take me to a private room to complete my massage and give Jasmine some privacy with her masseur. Jasmine's moans were getting more frequent and louder. I nodded that it was ok.
When I took the towel off my face, I saw that Jasmine was on elbows and knees and the young male masseur was passionately licking her pussy from behind. Her moans were becoming screams.
My masseuse, Little Xie, and I snuck away to a private room, where we made love for half an hour. Afterward, we chatted. I took her number and paid her the 400 RMB tip. I went back to the reception area to find Jasmine.
Jasmine and I went to a local bar and shared our stories. Her masseuse had used his tongue to help her reach orgasm and then they had fucked in doggy position until she came again simultaneously with her masseur. She had also left a tip of 400 RMB to her masseur.
Jasmine and I parted ways shortly after this event. Our breakup had nothing to do with our massage adventure. I saw Little Xie twice in Beijing hotel rooms. I remember her as an ardent lover.
Encounters with gigolos like Jasmine's masseur are not nearly as common as those between men and pros like Little Xie. I have heard that they are more common in the SARs, Hong Kong and Macau. But this event, rare as it may be, proves the point that male pros also enjoy sex with older women who are not super models.
So, last week, I got a txt from an unknown number on my prepaid phone. It reads"I am back from my trip to Korea, how are you?
I though she was one of my favorites, so I replied "Sorry", I don't recognize your number, who is this?
She then wrote"This is Grace, we met at the jewelry show. " and she sent a picture of a beautiful middle age Asian lady next to another non-Asian older lady in an afternoon party setting.
I searched the picture online and could not find anything.
Me: sorry, I don't know you, you got the wrong number.
Grace: Sorry to bother you, I checked and you are right, I got one of the digit wrong.
Me: No problem, it happens. Have a great rest of your day!
Grace: LOL, are you saying that you received this type of txt all the time.
Me: No no no. Just once in a while.
Grace: By the way, where are you from? I am curious.
I did not reply and deleted the text history, but I kept the picture of that beautiful Asian lady. The communication stopped after that.
No, I am not sharing that picture here, at this time.
JerkieChan
06-17-24, 22:43
So, last week, I got a txt from an unknown number on my prepaid phone. It reads"I am back from my trip to Korea, how are you?
I though she was one of my favorites, so I replied "Sorry", I don't recognize your number, who is this?
She then wrote"This is Grace, we met at the jewelry show. " and she sent a picture of a beautiful middle age Asian lady next to another non-Asian older lady in an afternoon party setting.Sounds to me like it was an attempt at a "pig butchering scam. " I've experienced a similar scenario a few times, always with a case of mistaken identity, contacted by a successful, attractive Asian woman. I couldn't find their pictures online either.
Lift Her Up
06-18-24, 00:14
Someone should find a Chinese translator, and interview the actual girls working the local shops.
The problem with a western woman writing a book about Asian sex workers is that they bring tons of baggage to their viewpoint. You might recall the billionaire owner of the New Englan Patriots got busted for getting a HE in Florida. The newspapers started talking about how bad it was that these women were trafficked and implied they were held against their will and forced to do sex acts with disgusting American men. But when they started poking around, they found there were no guards or goons keeping these girls from fleeing. No one was beaten or threatened. They were just women who chose to come to the US to make 100 times what they would make back in China.
Our society is increasingly anti-male, anti-older male, and any male sexual urge is disgusting. Women are all virtuous or victims, and their monetizing their sexuality is a form of freedom and self-expression, and their sexual urges are beautiful.
So what it would take is a Chinese speaking Chinese woman to interview these ladies. There are some work conditions that don't meet local legal standards, but they do meet Chinese standards in China, and so they are all fine with those rules and never complain about them. More than half of Chinese don't make a $500 a year, and these girls make $1000 a week. Who complains about making 100 times your normal salary? If you were making $100 k here, and you were offered a job making $10,000,000 a year working in a foreign country, would you be complaining?
Of course Asian women enjoy sex too. But female sexuality is much more restrained. The culture is more conservative in many ways. More generally, Asian culture has much more self-control in all ways. How many times have you seen a Chinese woman drinking a coke or eating french fries? Look at how thin most of these women are. But they don't go to gyms, they just don't eat that much.I agree with you. Please also note that the two books I referred to on the topic of how sex workers feel about their work were White women writing primarily about White women.
Meanwhile, I hope at least a few people out there (I mean not on this board) grasped that the women who helped out Kraft were not enslaved.
Lift Her Up.
Lift Her Up.
Thanks for the posts about OC before this forum. Interesting reading.
BSouthgate
06-18-24, 11:22
I agree with you. Please also note that the two books I referred to on the topic of how sex workers feel about their work were White women writing primarily about White women.
Meanwhile, I hope at least a few people out there (I mean not on this board) grasped that the women who helped out Kraft were not enslaved.
Lift Her Up.
Lift Her Up.For those who do not know about the Robert Kraft story, a summary follows. Then, I will comment on why a book or essay such as that suggested is sorely needed.
Robert Kraft Story. I write from memory of reading news accounts and watching youtube podcasts on the subject. Some of my details may not be correct.
Kraft is a billionaire businessman who owns the New England Patriots and several other sports enterprises. In 2019, Kraft visited at least one massage parlor in South Florida. On one occasion, he happened on a parlor under police investigation with hidden cameras. The police were on an anti-trafficking campaign, hoping to get better funding and fame for themselves and collaborating nonprofits. The police were thus able to record Kraft getting a blowjob. When Kraft was being driven out of the parlor's parking lot, the police stopped his car to identify who he was. Kraft was one of many mongers who visited this MP who were on camera and identified in the same way. A court threw Kraft's case out because he had been secretly video-recorded, which is illegal.
More importantly, despite using coercive interview methods with the masseuses, the police could find zero evidence of trafficking. In short, they had spent millions and had only achieved embarrassment for a horny billionaire. Note that this is only one of many such unsuccessful attempts to find non-existent trafficking of Asian prostitutes.
The American public has been influenced to believe that the trafficking of Asian women for prostitution is widespread and that all erotic parlors are loci of trafficking. Honest investigative reporting is necessary on this subject. I suggest that a young monger reading this thread consider studying this subject.
I am familiar with standard research practices and would happily advise and mentor such a person. Please DM me if you are interested in discussing this.
For those who do not know about the Robert Kraft story, a summary follows. Then, I will comment on why a book or essay such as that suggested is sorely needed.
Robert Kraft Story. I write from memory of reading news accounts and watching youtube podcasts on the subject. Some of my details may not be correct.
Kraft is a billionaire businessman who owns the New England Patriots and several other sports enterprises. In 2019, Kraft visited at least one massage parlor in South Florida. On one occasion, he happened on a parlor under police investigation with hidden cameras. The police were on an anti-trafficking campaign, hoping to get better funding and fame for themselves and collaborating nonprofits. The police were thus able to record Kraft getting a blowjob. When Kraft was being driven out of the parlor's parking lot, the police stopped his car to identify who he was. Kraft was one of many mongers who visited this MP who were on camera and identified in the same way. A court threw Kraft's case out because he had been secretly video-recorded, which is illegal.
More importantly, despite using coercive interview methods with the masseuses, the police could find zero evidence of trafficking. In short, they had spent millions and had only achieved embarrassment for a horny billionaire. Note that this is only one of many such unsuccessful attempts to find non-existent trafficking of Asian prostitutes.
The American public has been influenced to believe that the trafficking of Asian women for prostitution is widespread and that all erotic parlors are loci of trafficking. Honest investigative reporting is necessary on this subject. I suggest that a young monger reading this thread consider studying this subject.
I am familiar with standard research practices and would happily advise and mentor such a person. Please DM me if you are interested in discussing this.Unfortunately, trafficking in this industry IS a thing. It happens far more than a lot of people on this forum realize. Is it that way in every AMP? No, absolutely not. There are many AMPs, including a lot of the favorite ones on this site, where the girls are not trafficked and all have docs to be in the country legally. There are also quite a few where it's not that way. I don't want to get into the debate here as it's a fruitless discussion, but there are certain signs I look for that indicate girls just might be trafficked, and I tend to avoid those places "just in case. " I don't want to be feeding that network by any means.
Now another thing to consider is there's "trafficking" and there's "quid pro quo trafficking. " Without mentioning names, there's one prominent shop in OC where the girls live with the owners. They get cheap room and board to live in the owner's house. But as a condition of getting that cheap room and board they have to keep working at the shop. They may be documented, but have no marketable skills and speak little English. So if they were to quit the shop they'd have to move out, which means they'd need another roof over their heads and another source of income. They're free to go at the end of the day so they're not trafficked per se. They aren't being enslaved. But that can also be considered quid pro quo trafficking since they're kind of stuck.
BSouthgate
06-18-24, 20:09
Unfortunately, trafficking in this industry IS a thing. It happens far more than a lot of people on this forum realize. Is it that way in every AMP? No, absolutely not. There are many AMPs, including a lot of the favorite ones on this site, where the girls are not trafficked and all have docs to be in the country legally. There are also quite a few where it's not that way. I don't want to get into the debate here as it's a fruitless discussion, but there are certain signs I look for that indicate girls just might be trafficked, and I tend to avoid those places "just in case. " I don't want to be feeding that network by any means.
Now another thing to consider is there's "trafficking" and there's "quid pro quo trafficking. " Without mentioning names, there's one prominent shop in OC where the girls live with the owners. They get cheap room and board to live in the owner's house. But as a condition of getting that cheap room and board they have to keep working at the shop. They may be documented, but have no marketable skills and speak little English. So if they were to quit the shop they'd have to move out, which means they'd need another roof over their heads and another source of income. They're free to go at the end of the day so they're not trafficked per se. They aren't being enslaved. But that can also be considered quid pro quo trafficking since they're kind of stuck.I agree that trafficking exists, just like fatal attacks by mountain lions and deaths from lightning. However, lion attacks and lightning strikes are rare. Trafficking is more common but still infrequent enough to be rare.
Since 2018, there have been, according to the California Penal Code definition, between 600 and 1200 annual cases of human trafficking in all of California. https://htcourts.org/california/. If OC had a proportionate share of these cases, OC would have between 50 and 100 cases of trafficking per year—most of these involved street prostitution, some involved escort girls, and some involved children and men. About ten percent were not prostitution-related, and many involved internet interactions between adults and children. Probably less than a fifth involved massage parlor women. So, OC MPs have trafficked 10 to 20 women this year.
According to RM, there are at least 400 MPs in OC. Given the high turnover, let's assign five women to each MP annually. Thus, 2000 MP women work in OC each year. Of these, fewer than 1% of MP girls are trafficked according to the Cal State penal code definition.
Now, just so we know what we are talking about, what is the California definition of human trafficking? It is precisely "violating or depriving the personal liberty of another with the intent to obtain forced labor or services, sell or procure the person for commercial sex, or exploit the person in an obscene manner. " For example, one person was convicted of trafficking because he, one time, offered a 17-year-old girl the potential to work in an incall brothel. The girl refused and reported the guy who went to jail.
It is lucrative for police departments and especially for NGOs like the Polaris Group to find "trafficked" women. To do so, they often use "evidence of the kind that Grimmy uses in his post, that is, that the trafficking "victim" lives in the home of the business owner or on the property of the business. However, this custom is a rule in many Asian countries. I ran a small medical charity business in China and frequently housed my employees in my home / clinic / office. Restaurant owners and hotels, large and small, all do this. According to xxx and the California police and NGOs, we all were trafficking.
Oh yes, the OC register classified at the turn of the century. .I found many gems in the OC Weekly classifieds back in the day. Besides getting my fingers full of black ink as well. LOL.
I agree that trafficking exists, just like fatal attacks by mountain lions and deaths from lightning. However, lion attacks and lightning strikes are rare. Trafficking is more common but still infrequent enough to be rare.
Since 2018, there have been, according to the California Penal Code definition, between 600 and 1200 annual cases of human trafficking in all of California. https://htcourts.org/california/. If OC had a proportionate share of these cases, OC would have between 50 and 100 cases of trafficking per yearmost of these involved street prostitution, some involved escort girls, and some involved children and men. About ten percent were not prostitution-related, and many involved internet interactions between adults and children. Probably less than a fifth involved massage parlor women. So, OC MPs have trafficked 10 to 20 women this year.
According to RM, there are at least 400 MPs in OC. Given the high turnover, let's assign five women to each MP annually. Thus, 2000 MP women work in OC each year. Of these, fewer than 1% of MP girls are trafficked according to the Cal State penal code definition.
Now, just so we know what we are talking about, what is the California definition of human trafficking? It is precisely "violating or depriving the personal liberty of another with the intent to obtain forced labor or services, sell or procure the person for commercial sex, or exploit the person in an obscene manner. " For example, one person was convicted of trafficking because he, one time, offered a 17-year-old girl the potential to work in an incall brothel. The girl refused and reported the guy who went to jail.
It is lucrative for police departments and especially for NGOs like the Polaris Group to find "trafficked" women. To do so, they often use "evidence of the kind that Grimmy uses in his post, that is, that the trafficking "victim" lives in the home of the business owner or on the property of the business. However, this custom is a rule in many Asian countries. I ran a small medical charity business in China and frequently housed my employees in my home / clinic / office. Restaurant owners and hotels, large and small, all do this. According to xxx and the California police and NGOs, we all were trafficking.Again, not to stoke heated debate, but I would argue that trafficking is a bit more prominent than you're led to believe. Not all of the girls in all of the MPs are trafficked, and OC isn't a trafficking hotspot. Trafficking is a lot more prominent in the San Gabriel Valley than it is in OC. But also keep in mind what I pointed out in my last post. There are a lot of girls in OC who aren't trafficked per se. They're free to come and go if they wish. But the conditions they are under could easily be argued as quid pro quo trafficking.
As you say, the definition of trafficking according to California Penal Code is "violating or depriving the personal liberty of another with the intent to obtain forced labor or services, sell or procure the person for commercial sex, or exploit the person in an obscene manner. " So let's say you're a girl working for the prominent OC AMP that I referenced earlier but still won't name names because that's not the point of these posts. You're a Chinese woman in her 40's or 50's, you work for this AMP, you're given a place to live and the food you need. You have to pay room and board to the owner, but the costs are reasonable. In order to keep living there and having room and board covered for a reasonable and affordable cost, you have to work in their dark, dingy, and dirty (and yes, all of these AMPs are dirty. Not a single one of them meets any health code standard even if they appear clean on the surface) shop, 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. You have to jerk off 12 random guys every day, many of whom you've never met. You have to stick your finger up at least some of their asses. You have to suck some of their dicks. All while they try to pull your clothes off and touch your intimate parts. You might even have to have sex with a few of them. Again, you're free to go. An argument can be made that you're doing it voluntarily, so therefore you aren't trafficked. However, if you go, then what? You're in a country where you don't speak much of the language. If you quit you have nowhere to live. You have no marketable skills. Maybe if you did well in the business you saved up enough to get your own apartment for a while, but eventually you need another job, and minimum wage jobs aren't going to cut it for very long. So you're kind of stuck, and the spa owner knows you're stuck and fully exploits the fact that you're stuck. That's quid pro quo trafficking.
You can argue that even with that, it's "better living conditions that the girl had in China. " That may be true, but this isn't China. This is the USA where it isn't acceptable for workers to be treated that way.
Again, this doesn't apply to all AMPs, or even a majority of AMPs, especially in OC. But it is out there in fairly substantial numbers. It's also not limited to sex trafficking, and it certainly isn't limited to Asians. Trafficking is also prominent in the restaurant and hospitality industries. Hotel maids, dish washers, etc.
This all plays into the argument that prostitution should be legalized. Literally 100% of these AMPs are evading the law in one form or another, in addition to providing sexual services that are illegal. They are violating pretty much every labor law in the book. They're evading taxes. They're laundering money. All of that is necessary due to them having to operate in the shadows. I'd rather have it all be legal, with the girls being treated as actual employees and the shops following labor and tax laws, and keeping their places more in line with health code sanitation standards.
If you've ever been to Toronto you know that there's legal body rub shops there. You go in, pick a girl out of the lineup (and various nationalities are usually available), then go into the room where she gets naked and gives an erotic massage with a happy ending. They're HJ only, but usually young, hot girls who are doing it legally and earning real wages. The places are meticulously clean, get frequent health inspections like any other massage shop should, and as a customer you don't have to worry about the place getting raided while you're getting your dick stroked. Yes, it's more expensive than an AMP, but you're paying for quality and an overall better experience.
Lift Her Up
06-19-24, 13:57
If our site monitor Admin were to give awards for thoughtful and well researched postings, these should go to Grimmy and BSouthGate.
I think the definition of "human trafficking" varies according to whoever is saying it. The California definition cited by BSouthGate emphasizes the involuntary part. Otoh I just read the UN protocol written up in the Wiki article on human trafficking. This one sticks closer to the US's Mann Act (1910): Any transportation or "harboring" for prostitution fits the definition. So when someone complains about human trafficking, one might inquire just what the speaker means. There is little trafficking under the California definition and our providers are almost all trafficked under the UN definition.
In my own mind, the part that is wrong is the involuntary nature. I hope I've never had sex with a sex worker who's in this involuntarily. Would I want any of my younger female relatives involved in this? No. But if they were, I'd want them to have a safe protected environment and be able to screen their clients, and I'd want them to have a realistic back-up plan for when the business fades for them or they otherwise want to get out. I wouldn't want society to condemn them for their prior choice. And I am so grateful for the women who are willing to help me enjoy sexual expression, thus the motive for my handle here.
And now, having blown off steam here, it's time to go out and blow my wad (1960's term), looking for a vagina to slide into and move back and forth inside.
Lift Her Up.
BSouthgate
06-19-24, 15:25
Again, not to stoke heated debate, but I would argue that trafficking is a bit more prominent than you're led to believe. Not all of the girls in all of the MPs are trafficked, and OC isn't a trafficking hotspot. Trafficking is a lot more prominent in the San Gabriel Valley than it is in OC. But also keep in mind what I pointed out in my last post. There are a lot of girls in OC who aren't trafficked per se. They're free to come and go if they wish. But the conditions they are under could easily be argued as quid pro quo trafficking.
As you say, the definition of trafficking according to California Penal Code is "violating or depriving the personal liberty of another with the intent to obtain forced labor or services, sell or procure the person for commercial sex, or exploit the person in an obscene manner. " So let's say you're a girl working for the prominent OC AMP that I referenced earlier but still won't name names because that's not the point of these posts. You're a Chinese woman in her 40's or 50's, you work for this AMP, you're given a place to live and the food you need. You have to pay room and board to the owner, but the costs are reasonable. In order to keep living there and having room and board covered for a reasonable and affordable cost, you have to work in their dark, dingy, and dirty (and yes, all of these AMPs are dirty. Not a single one of them meets any health code standard even if they appear clean on the surface) shop, 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. You have to jerk off 12 random guys every day, many of whom you've never met. You have to stick your finger up at least some of their asses. You have to suck some of their dicks. All while they try to pull your clothes off and touch your intimate parts. You might even have to have sex with a few of them. Again, you're free to go. An argument can be made that you're doing it voluntarily, so therefore you aren't trafficked. However, if you go, then what? You're in a country where you don't speak much of the language. If you quit you have nowhere to live. You have no marketable skills. Maybe if you did well in the business you saved up enough to get your own apartment for a while, but eventually you need another job, and minimum wage jobs aren't going to cut it for very long. So you're kind of stuck, and the spa owner knows you're stuck and fully exploits the fact that you're stuck. That's quid pro quo trafficking.
You can argue that even with that, it's "better living conditions that the girl had in China. " That may be true, but this isn't China. This is the USA where it isn't acceptable for workers to be treated that way.
Again, this doesn't apply to all AMPs, or even a majority of AMPs, especially in OC. But it is out there in fairly substantial numbers. It's also not limited to sex trafficking, and it certainly isn't limited to Asians. Trafficking is also prominent in the restaurant and hospitality industries. Hotel maids, dish washers, etc..Grimmy, thank you for the effort and time you put into this post and the hordes of information and knowledge you shared in your previous posts. This site is lucky to have you. I understand that you are in the legitimate massage business and have extensive knowledge about all aspects of it.
I am highly skeptical about the prevalence of trafficking in OC or even in the SG Valley.
First of all, I'm not at all convinced that renting a room to a 45-year-old non-documented Chinese employee is, in any way, exploitative or even close to what one should call trafficking. To think that providing cheap rent to one's employees approaches being unfair or abusive seems way off the mark. It also implies ethnocentrism. My home / office in China was a large townhouse across the street from the dormitory of the local Hilton Hotel. Both the Hilton and I housed employees and volunteers on our property. Neither the Hilton nor I charged rent. How on earth is this exploitative? This is the way it is done in other countries. It is better there than here. It is a different culture with different practices.
Second, I made my estimate that less than one percent of massage women are trafficked in OC based on the California police stats. Of course, I can be wrong. You are in the business and must have more knowledge than I about trafficked women who are unknown to the police. But if the number is even as high as ten percent, would there not be many reports on these review sites of mongers who had encountered trafficked massage girls?
I have personally experienced a couple of US streetwalkers who described a trafficking situation. So, I will grant you that trafficking is probably prevalent among street women, but I have never detected any evidence that anyone from an American MP had been trafficked. This is even though I am fluent in Mandarin and Spanish, have dated massage girls, and have met their families. What other reader has had different experiences?
So, if you know of places that are trafficking women (not renting cheap rooms), you should let us all know so we can avoid these places.
Thanks again for all your contributions. I very much enjoy reading your posts.
Grimmy, thank you for the effort and time you put into this post and the hordes of information and knowledge you shared in your previous posts. This site is lucky to have you. I understand that you are in the legitimate massage business and have extensive knowledge about all aspects of it.
I am highly skeptical about the prevalence of trafficking in OC or even in the SG Valley.
First of all, I'm not at all convinced that renting a room to a 45-year-old non-documented Chinese employee is, in any way, exploitative or even close to what one should call trafficking. To think that providing cheap rent to one's employees approaches being unfair or abusive seems way off the mark. It also implies ethnocentrism. My home / office in China was a large townhouse across the street from the dormitory of the local Hilton Hotel. Both the Hilton and I housed employees and volunteers on our property. Neither the Hilton nor I charged rent. How on earth is this exploitative? This is the way it is done in other countries. It is better there than here. It is a different culture with different practices.
Second, I made my estimate that less than one percent of massage women are trafficked in OC based on the California police stats. Of course, I can be wrong. You are in the business and must have more knowledge than I about trafficked women who are unknown to the police. But if the number is even as high as ten percent, would there not be many reports on these review sites of mongers who had encountered trafficked massage girls?
I have personally experienced a couple of US streetwalkers who described a trafficking situation. So, I will grant you that trafficking is probably prevalent among street women, but I have never detected any evidence that anyone from an American MP had been trafficked. This is even though I am fluent in Mandarin and Spanish, have dated massage girls, and have met their families. What other reader has had different experiences?
So, if you know of places that are trafficking women (not renting cheap rooms), you should let us all know so we can avoid these places.
Thanks again for all your contributions. I very much enjoy reading your posts.Thank you as well! This is a great discussion and I appreciate keeping everything civil, even though we may not agree on all points.
About the free or low cost room and board and being exploitative, it's about the girls being "stuck. " Again, it isn't jail. They can leave if they wish. There's no walls around them. But if they leave they aren't likely to have anywhere to go. They may not even be documented as you pointed out. There are AMP owners who exploit that. I won't mention which spas they are because I'm not here to call anybody out. There are even some spas where the girls are expected to have sex with the owner at his whim. I know a couple girls who have "escaped" that setting, only to go back later because once they escaped they found they had no other options to keep a roof over their heads. Some of them ultimately got their own places. Good for them. They're much more free than they were before, but still stuck giving HJs and BJs for a living because they have no other skills that pay enough to meet their living expenses.
Offering affordable houses to employees is one thing. Offering affordable housing to employees under condition of them continuing to work in your illegal shop, while said employees are undocumented and clearly have no other options, and subjecting them to deplorable working conditions is another thing entirely. Many of these girls are literally stuck.
Once again I won't name names of spas here because I'm not here to call anybody out, but there are clear warning signs that make me avoid certain spas. Places that rotate girls frequently, as in they have an entirely new staff every week or two. That's an indication that they may be getting shuffled around to stay a step ahead of law enforcement and immigration officials. I've seen many cases where girls are even taken from state to state, literally coast to coast. Any signs of the girls living in the shops is a huge red flag. They're literally being kept in there under squalid conditions, being served minimal food, pretty much not being allowed to leave the shop. And then they're shuttled from that shop to another in a couple weeks. Signs of meals being prepared in the spas also tends to point to the girls living there. Not always of course, but it's one of the thing that makes me raise my eyebrows a little and wonder what's going on behind the scenes. And just the overall mood of the girls. I can usually sense when something just seems a bit off. They're visibly not happy, just going through the motions to get through the day.
Police stats are only based on what they know. Violation of California law. There are a lot of things that fall well outside their jurisdiction and / or are extremely difficult to prove in a court of law. Quid pro quo trafficking a I described it for example. In order to bust the owners of one of those spas for quid pro quo trafficking you would have to gather a ton of very difficult to collect evidence, which would include getting the girls to admit that they were doing this beyond their will. Of course if they're undocumented or here on expired visas it would be tough to get them to talk. They don't want to risk deportation, and they don't know what the unknown is. What exactly happens to them if they cooperate. In their home country, cooperating with the police can often lead to dire consequences. So exactly how do you get them to come out and say that they want to leave the business but can't because the owner will kick them out of the house and they have nowhere to go?
Bottom line is it's a very, very complicated subject with no easy answers to anything. One thing is for certain, and that is that it's pretty easy to ascertain that not many of these girls do this voluntarily. Some of them do for the money. They're in love with the money and they know they can't make anywhere near that much doing anything else, so they continue to tolerate it. Think about it though, as another poster here pointed out earlier. Say your job is to finger a dozen random women a day, eat some of them out, suck their tits, maybe even have sex with some of them. Out of the dozen you see every day, most are older, unattractive, overweight, and have less than stellar hygiene. They're trying to grab at you, rip your clothes off, kiss you, stick their fingers up your ass, and who knows what else. That's your job and you have to keep doing it in order to continue living in the owners' hose and eating the food you're provided. How many of you would enjoy that? Probably not many. Some maybe enjoy sex enough that they would enjoy it. Most would just tolerate it because it's a living, and perhaps a very good living.
It's been a great debate but I probably won't make any additional comments about it because we will probably never be in full agreement. Thanks again for the thoughtful discussion!
Snip
They may not even be documented as you pointed out.
Snip for brevity
I know a couple girls who have "escaped" that setting, only to go back later because once they escaped they found they had no other options to keep a roof over their heads. Some of them ultimately got their own places. Grimmy, thanks for your comments, I generally learn something from your posts.
Not a question on whether a gal is trapped or trafficked, but rather the administrative side. Applicable to nearly any business that would lease / rent to a Tennant.
How does one go about leasing a place if one doesen't have a paper trail, credit score etc. , etc??
I've always been curious about that. Does the landlord not check things out?
I equate it to a "normal" residential landlord I. E. Written minimal criteria for any prospective tenants, verifying references, etc.
Just curious.
Grimmy, thanks for your comments, I generally learn something from your posts.
Not a question on whether a gal is trapped or trafficked, but rather the administrative side. Applicable to nearly any business that would lease / rent to a Tennant.
How does one go about leasing a place if one doesen't have a paper trail, credit score etc. , etc??
I've always been curious about that. Does the landlord not check things out?
I equate it to a "normal" residential landlord I. E. Written minimal criteria for any prospective tenants, verifying references, etc.
Just curious.I'm going to have to speculate a bit, and before I do that I'll have to give some background because it's pretty complicated. Commercial real estate is much more complicated than residential real estate with a lot more moving parts, so forgive me if I get long winded here because I probably will.
With residential rentals, the only thing really on the table is how much the rent is. With commercial storefront rentals the rent is just one of many pieces. There's CAM fees, clauses about who pays dfor what if something breaks. There's signage rights. Do you get to be on the strip malls landmark sign, and if yea, what position on the sign do you get? There's the issue of what sign you put over your door. A business can't just put up whatever sign it wants. There's local ordinances and everything has to be approved by the landlord. Who pays for the electricity for your sign? Businesses all have two names. A legal entity name and the name that the public knows you by. The public needs to be able to figure out who to sue if they need to, so the DBA name (which is the name you hang over your door) has to be traceable to a legal entity that can be served process.
There's something called Tenant Improvement (TI) allowance which is customary. That means when you finish your construction and open your business, the landlord often cuts you a check to cover some or all of your construction costs. For the business I opened, TImeas typically in the $50 k range. I didn't get TI. In my case I got free rent while construction was being done and for the first 4 months of being open. After that I had half price rent which gradually ramped up to full rent to give my business time to ramp up.
Them there's things like exclusivity clauses. No other massage business can come into my shopping center because I got exclusivity. There's clauses on who can move in next door. When you're running a massage shop you don't want a kickboxing or karate studio moving in next door, or a Korean kimchi restaurant where that emits foul odors. And then there's things like what if the restaurant next door wants to expand. The landlord can move you to another space but then they have to pay for your new construction and relocation.
Bottom line is it's very, very complicated. Because it's so complicated they do meddle in your affairs quite a bit. Personal financial statements, business financial statements, personal and business credit references, business plans with revenue projections, etc. They usually even require a personal guarantee. In my case Inhad to personally guarantee the rent for the entire 10 year term of my lease. If my business goes under they can foreclose on my house to collect rent for as long as the space stays vacant.
Now back to you pr question. How do the AMPs do it? I can only speculate, but one thing is very clear. Just look at the shopping centers that most of these places are in. Quite often they're old, run down centers where filling empty space isn't that easy. Quite often they're Asian owned. I suspect there's a lot of looking the other way going on. I wouldn't even be surprised to hear that the center owners are complicit in the AMP business and even helping to launder some of their money. I can't think of too many AMPs that are in nice modern centers, comfortably nestled between a Starbucks and a Crumble Cookies.
BSouthgate
06-20-24, 12:27
Thank you as well! This is a great discussion and I appreciate keeping everything civil, even though we may not agree on all points.
About the free or low cost room and board and being exploitative, it's about the girls being "stuck. " Again, it isn't jail. They can leave if they wish. There's no walls around them. But if they leave they aren't likely to have anywhere to go. They may not even be documented as you pointed out. There are AMP owners who exploit that. I won't mention which spas they are because I'm not here to call anybody out. There are even some spas where the girls are expected to have sex with the owner at his whim. I know a couple girls who have "escaped" that setting, only to go back later because once they escaped they found they had no other options to keep a roof over their heads. Some of them ultimately got their own places. Good for them. They're much more free than they were before, but still stuck giving HJs and BJs for a living because they have no other skills that pay enough to meet their living expenses.
Offering affordable houses to employees is one thing. Offering affordable housing to employees under condition of them continuing to work in your illegal shop, while said employees are undocumented and clearly have no other options, and subjecting them to deplorable working conditions is another thing entirely. Many of these girls are literally stuck..This has been a great dialogue. I, too, feel it should end here. My closing statement is to ask you to watch this poor exploited woman who is suffering through an hour with a monger in order to make a few hundred dollars.
https://pornzog.com/video/3808001/oral-wonderland/
BSouthgate
06-20-24, 12:48
I'm going to have to speculate a bit, and before I do that I'll have to give some background because it's pretty complicated. Commercial real estate is much more complicated than residential real estate with a lot more moving parts, so forgive me if I get long winded here because I probably will.
With residential rentals, the only thing really on the table is how much the rent is. With commercial storefront rentals the rent is just one of many pieces. There's CAM fees, clauses about who pays dfor what if something breaks. There's signage rights. Do you get to be on the strip malls landmark sign, and if yea, what position on the sign do you get? There's the issue of what sign you put over your door. A business can't just put up whatever sign it wants. There's local ordinances and everything has to be approved by the landlord. Who pays for the electricity for your sign? Businesses all have two names. A legal entity name and the name that the public knows you by. The public needs to be able to figure out who to sue if they need to, so the DBA name (which is the name you hang over your door) has to be traceable to a legal entity that can be served process.
There's something called Tenant Improvement (TI) allowance which is customary. That means when you finish your construction and open your business, the landlord often cuts you a check to cover some or all of your construction costs. For the business I opened, TImeas typically in the $50 k range. I didn't get TI. In my case I got free rent while construction was being done and for the first 4 months of being open. After that I had half price rent which gradually ramped up to full rent to give my business time to ramp up.
Them there's things like exclusivity clauses. No other massage business can come into my shopping center because I got exclusivity. There's clauses on who can move in next door. When you're running a massage shop you don't want a kickboxing or karate studio moving in next door, or a Korean kimchi restaurant where that emits foul odors..I know nothing about renting commercial space. Grimmy's excellent description can serve as a guide for anyone who wants to open their own AMP.
Many of the masseuses we see are undocumented. That does NOT mean that they are trafficked. Most Mexican gardeners are in the same boat. Also, they are not trafficked.
You will note that most Chinese masseuses have 626 area code phones. They live in subletted rooms and apartments in the SG Valley. These subletted rooms and apartments are advertised in the local Chinese newspapers and online. They may be illegal—I do not know—but they are widespread. I even knew of a Chinese colleague, now a scientist working at the World Bank in Beijing, who rented one of these rooms when he was studying for his PhD at USC. My friend was not trafficked. Neither are the masseuses who stay in these modest and very economical accommodations.
The women are used to this kind of arrangement. In China, millions of migrant workers who move from the country to the big cities have similar arrangements or even live in dormitory-style houses with four to six people in a room. Yes, in China, some of these migrants are also sex workers, on call in brothels, saunas, and massage parlors. In other cases, the businesses provide rooms for these sex workers.
A portion of these Chinese big-city sex workers migrate legally or illegally to the US or other countries. They learn about AMPs from friends and relatives and earn five times what they earn in China, but they usually save a lot, send a lot home to family, and continue a meager existence.
I am still looking for a young intellectually inclined monger to start a survey of AMP women. Knowledge of Mandarin preferable. Pay is zero. Any takers?
Now back to you pr question. How do the AMPs do it? I can only speculate, but one thing is very clear. Just look at the shopping centers that most of these places are in. Quite often they're old, run down centers where filling empty space isn't that easy. Quite often they're Asian owned. I suspect there's a lot of looking the other way going on. I wouldn't even be surprised to hear that the center owners are complicit in the AMP business and even helping to launder some of their money. I can't think of too many AMPs that are in nice modern centers, comfortably nestled between a Starbucks and a Crumble Cookies.Thanks for your EXCELLENT response, I appreciate that. I am vaguely familiar with some of what you referenced, but no direct first hand knowledge (our office having moved several times in the last 20 years (our lease process takes about 9 months and has to go through a myriad of administrative hoops and bureaucracy) Mostly Class A, sometimes Class B.
Your speculation on a potential conniving between AMP & building (at least to some degree) is I would think (not knowing better) the most likely.
I know nothing about renting commercial space. Grimmy's excellent description can serve as a guide for anyone who wants to open their own AMP.
Many of the masseuses we see are undocumented. That does NOT mean that they are trafficked. Most Mexican gardeners are in the same boat. Also, they are not trafficked.
You will note that most Chinese masseuses have 626 area code phones. They live in subletted rooms and apartments in the SG Valley. These subletted rooms and apartments are advertised in the local Chinese newspapers and online. They may be illegalI do not knowbut they are widespread. I even knew of a Chinese colleague, now a scientist working at the World Bank in Beijing, who rented one of these rooms when he was studying for his PhD at USC. My friend was not trafficked. Neither are the masseuses who stay in these modest and very economical accommodations.
The women are used to this kind of arrangement. In China, millions of migrant workers who move from the country to the big cities have similar arrangements or even live in dormitory-style houses with four to six people in a room. Yes, in China, some of these migrants are also sex workers, on call in brothels, saunas, and massage parlors. In other cases, the businesses provide rooms for these sex workers.
A portion of these Chinese big-city sex workers migrate legally or illegally to the US or other countries. They learn about AMPs from friends and relatives and earn five times what they earn in China, but they usually save a lot, send a lot home to family, and continue a meager existence.
I am still looking for a young intellectually inclined monger to start a survey of AMP women. Knowledge of Mandarin preferable. Pay is zero. Any takers?Back in my previous career before owning my own business, I spent countless hours hanging around various types of factories in Asia and other parts of the country. Some of those were stereotypical Chinese sweatshops with absolutely deplorable working and living conditions. Some of them were nicer factories, but they had a couple things in common with the sweatshops. They were staffed predominantly by young Chinese girls (16 to early 20's). The girls often came off of family farms and were working for the equivalent of $1 or $2 per day. They lived in dormitories next to the factory and they had their meals provided. The quality of the food varied from factory to factory, ranging from almost inedible prison type food to "pretty decent. ".
I remember walking into one of these places. I'm a fairly tall white guy, and at the time I was in my late 20's or early 30's. I walk in and instantly every girl in the place stopped working and looked at me for a moment. It was very awkward, but my colleague said something like don't worry, you're probably the first white guy they've ever seen.
Some of those young girls working in the factory were very cute. I have vivid memories of one of the bosses there asking if I liked any of them. If so, he could arrange for one or two of them to be delivered to my hotel room tonight. I never did and never would have considered it. They all worked hard, and all long days for very little pay, and I wasn't about to exploit them like that. Stuff like that is more normal over there. I suppose I could have paid one of those girls something like $20 for a night in my hotel room. That would have been 10 days worth of wages and a lot of those girls would have eagerly accepted it. But it's not normal here and would of course be considered extremely exploitative. But the fact that it's normal there, and conditions are "better" here, doesn't make it acceptable in my book.
By the same token, I was surprisingly often approached by hotel workers in China. Say a cute young girl working the front desk would strike up conversation with me, and it would turn to "I get off work in an hour. Would you like to have a drink together?" Of course that's leading up to her ending up in my room. A hotel front desk job in a big city like Shanghai would earn them something like $500/ month. If they got some American businessman to give them 100 for a couple hours of sex, it was a win / win.
By the same token, I was surprisingly often approached by hotel workers in China. Say a cute young girl working the front desk would strike up conversation with me, and it would turn to "I get off work in an hour. Would you like to have a drink together?" Of course that's leading up to her ending up in my room. A hotel front desk job in a big city like Shanghai would earn them something like $500/ month. If they got some American businessman to give them 100 for a couple hours of sex, it was a win / win.I was reminded of a story that a colleague told me about his first visit to Moscow. Stayed in a five-star international hotel (Marriott or Hyatt). There were girls in the lobby and every elevator lobby of every floor. The first night, he was tired from the flight and didn't think anything of it, and nobody approached him. The next day, he was propositioned in the lobby and as he got off the elevator. Said no, and went to his room. The front desk rang him and asked if everything was alright, and if he didn't like the girls, should the hotel send up a boy? NO!
Next evening, he picked a girl at random, went to his room. Told her to sit, he locked himself in the bathroom, came out 20 minutes later, gave her some money and sent her on her way. It was a win-win in his mind. He was a newly married man, and he wasn't into the hobby. But in these countries, it isn't a hobby, it is a living to these girls.
FarFarAway
06-21-24, 00:26
I was reminded of a story that a colleague told me about his first visit to Moscow. Stayed in a five-star international hotel (Marriott or Hyatt). There were girls in the lobby and every elevator lobby of every floor. The first night, he was tired from the flight and didn't think anything of it, and nobody approached him. The next day, he was propositioned in the lobby and as he got off the elevator. Said no, and went to his room. The front desk rang him and asked if everything was alright, and if he didn't like the girls, should the hotel send up a boy? NO!
Next evening, he picked a girl at random, went to his room. Told her to sit, he locked himself in the bathroom, came out 20 minutes later, gave her some money and sent her on her way. It was a win-win in his mind. He was a newly married man, and he wasn't into the hobby. But in these countries, it isn't a hobby, it is a living to these girls.Yeah, known in Russia, they call that a honey trap, allegedly what caught DJT; of course there are surveillance cameras in the rooms, so they can file that footage away to use as they wish. Called 'compromat'.
Yeah, known in Russia, they call that a honey trap, allegedly what caught DJT; of course there are surveillance cameras in the rooms, so they can file that footage away to use as they wish. Called 'compromat'.If you're a public figure, especially a high profile politician, and you fall into one of those Russian honey traps, you're a dumbshit. At very least, have your security detail comb the room for hidden cameras. It isn't that hard. As an ordinary citizen I don't think they'd find hidden cam footage of me nailing a working girl that interesting or useful for much of anything.
BSouthgate
06-23-24, 19:54
Back in my previous career before owning my own business, I spent countless hours hanging around various types of factories in Asia and other parts of the country. Some of those were stereotypical Chinese sweatshops with absolutely deplorable working and living conditions.There is so much to unpack in Grimmy's post. Lets start with the first sentence:
"Back in my previous career before owning my own business, I spent countless hours hanging around various types of factories in Asia and other parts of the country. ".
In which country is Asia located, Grimmy?
I assume you mean the PRC. Is that correct?
It is also not clear which time period Grimmy is talking about. If I assume that his estimate of factory workers' wages is accurate, it was probably the early to mid 1990's. I get that from the attached graph showing the exponential increase in average Chinese manufacturing wage vs year. In the early 1990's, Chinese workers did make very little.
I have a problem with Grimmy's story about the factory boss offering any employee that Grimmy fancies for a night of fun. Even during the extreme corruption of the late Jiang Zemin and early Hu Jintao eras, it is highly unlikely that the boss could just offer any factory worker, like they do from lineups in brothels. Probably a misunderstanding.
You see Grimmy, I did not like you spend "countless hours" in Asia, I spent 18 years there, almost 12 months each year. I have a Chinese wife and I am fluent in Mandarin. I have studied Chinese culture especially related to health care. So lets go on.
The boss could have no doubt found a girl willing to share a good time with Grimmy but not just any girl. To understand this, some historical context is helpful.
It is so helpful to understand historical context of a cultural phenomenon.
Prostitution was a state supported profession during most of the Chinese dynasties. There was no shame in visiting a brothel in Tang (618-906 AD), Song (960-1279 AD), Ming (1368-1640 AD) or Qing (1644-1912 AD) China. During the Song and Ming Dynasties (960-1640 AD, about 700 years), brothels were openly frequented by poets, artists, scholars and nobility. These customers had to provide monetary gifts and court the prostitutes to win their favor. If a prostitute did not want to make love with a customer, even after he had paid her, that was her right. In the preceding Tang Dynasty (300 years), prostitutes were greatly respected as women who had broken free from rural poverty to achieve economic success and sexual freedom. During the reign of the Tang empress Wu, prostitutes achieved their highest status in Chinese society. To sum it up, there were never any sanctions on prostitutes, male or female in Ancient China until the CCP took over in 1949. The CCP banned and successfully suppressed prostitution.
Since imperial China's sex workers had served the wealthy classes and since the CCP's goal was to create a classless society, between 1950 and 1978, prostitution was crushed with police raids and confinement of sex workers in re-education centers.
In parallel with the Chinese commercial sex industry, there was a larger society of millions of Chinese families who believed that, though sex was fun, its main purpose was procreation. In these situations, first marriages for boys were arranged by the families and were a kind of business deal to mutually benefit the two families. There was a silver lining for the groom. If his family farm was economically successful, he could, after his first wife had a few children, take and keep more wives for more fun and more children. Read for example "The Good Earth" by Pearl Buck.
This did not work out so well for rural women who had little or no choice regarding marriage partners, who were forbidden to have extra-marital relationships and who could not divorce their husbands. During the CCP period (1950 1978), a more gender equal society was created by allowing only one wife per husband and allowing fairly easy divorce for either party. However, premarital and extramarital sex was forbidden for everyone.
In 1978, Deng Xiao Ping, the new leader of the PRC instituted widespread economic and political reforms. Private businesses spread across China, especially in designated areas along the southeast coast. The hukou laws that restricted the internal travel of rural people were loosened and prostitution bans were lifted or not enforced. This resulted in massive relocations of people from rural to urban regions and the growth of a wealthy class of business elites who had money to burn on recreational fun. Young rural women and girls, some single, some married moved from the poor rural areas to the growing prosperity of the cities to work in factories and shops so they could better support themselves and their families.
These new female arrivals also found employment in brothels, saunas, massage parlors.
https://pornzog.com/video/11127138/an-erotic-masseuse-little-wei-by-party-manny/
As hotel ding-dong xiaojies shown here.
https://pornzog.com/video/12354886/an-erotic-masseuse-little-sugar-original-by-party-manny/
And in the alley cathouses like the one shown below.
https://motherless.com/AB6FB8D
Some of these young women sought out jobs in the hotel, restaurant and entertainment industries. They had hopes to meet wealthy travelling Chinese and foreign executives and professionals. Their visions included both compensated dates and long term lucrative relationships with male visitors from other Chinese cities, from Hong Kong, Taiwan and from foreign countries. Enter our hero, Grimmy. It would have been so interesting if Grimmy had accepted the date with the front desk hotel employee and lived to tell us about it. On one occasion, a waitress approached me with a similar proposition. After she ended her shift, I walked her home quite platonically. I took her number but never saw her again.
This was part of the Chinese sexual revolution. One study of Chinese women's sexual practices found that as many as 29% of older men who had undergone graduate education had, at some time in their lives, paid money or other material compensation directly for sexual services. This is higher than in the US or most European countries. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2057150X221114599.
Seen in the context of the prior imperial history of social acceptance of prostitution, this sexual revolution was like a re-awakening of an ancient cultural norm. Like their predecessors in the dynastic era, young women who, in childhood, had experienced destitution and the humiliation of arranged marriages on the farms were elevated to the status of modern day concubines and courtesans. They did not have to marry a grubby farmer in their home town. Instead, they could have countless husbands, each for a few hours and each providing financial support that was unheard of back home.
A part of this revolution was the liberation of both men and women to receive material benefits in exchange for sex. Yes, this applied to young men sought out by wealthy Chinese women as well as to female pros. One study showed that 2 to 5 % of Chinese women had purchased sex from a man during their lifetimes.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2057150X221114599
Note that this is much higher than similar percentages of western women who pay for sex with men. I experienced two such "dates" where Chinese business women paid for my air transport and hotels to their home cities and gave me an allowance if I would sexually entertain them in hotel rooms. These two women were far from attractive but were ardent lovers who especially enjoyed cunnilingus, a treat that they had a hard time finding among local men. Attached is a photo of one of my two "clients" enjoying my company.
Unfortunately, Chairman Xi stifled this sexual revolution starting in about 2012 until the present. It is still fairly easy to find pros in the big cities but the rates have gone up, the quality of service has dropped and it is difficult to impossible to take the girl to your hotel room.
I am a cautious fan of Chairman Xi because he has done much to alleviate the poverty that in rural areas and he has supported health care and education in China. However, I do wish he would allow the return of ding-dong xiaojies and massage saunas.
I hope you guys will all visit China some day. But please make an effort to understand this wonderful country. Read a good history like that by Spencer or Wasserstrom. Read something about Confucianism and go with an open mind.
DarkRoomDaddy
06-24-24, 02:01
Thank you as well! This is a great discussion and I appreciate keeping everything civil, even though we may not agree on all points.
About the free or low cost room and board and being exploitative, it's about the girls being "stuck. " Again, it isn't jail. They can leave if they wish. There's no walls around them. But if they leave they aren't likely to have anywhere to go. They may not even be documented as you pointed out. There are AMP owners who exploit that. I won't mention which spas they are because I'm not here to call anybody out. There are even some spas where the girls are expected to have sex with the owner at his whim. I know a couple girls who have "escaped" that setting, only to go back later because once they escaped they found they had no other options to keep a roof over their heads. Some of them ultimately got their own places. Good for them. They're much more free than they were before, but still stuck giving HJs and BJs for a living because they have no other skills that pay enough to meet their living expenses.
Offering affordable houses to employees is one thing. Offering affordable housing to employees under condition of them continuing to work in your illegal shop, while said employees are undocumented and clearly have no other options, and subjecting them to deplorable working conditions is another thing entirely. Many of these girls are literally stuck.I know of shops in Westminster where the girls sleep overnight in the shop. I am sure that's not legal. Other local shops have a safe house provided by owner, where they get rent from their employees. In one case, owner has several manufactured homes across the street from the shop. In almost all shops, you can catch a girl catching a catnap during business hours too.
As for whether its imprisonment or not. Just imagine if someone dropped you into the middle of China illegally. How well could you navigate the roads, much less ask anyone for help, or go to the authorities. That's not imprisonment, but its defacto "up a creek". When providers do jump ship, they seem to have access to some networks on WeChat where there is word of mouth announcements of other jobs. In some cases, one girl saves enough money to open her own shop, and then invites some trusted friends to come to her new shop.
BSouthgate
06-24-24, 11:59
There is so much to unpack in Grimmy's post. Lets start with the first sentence:
"Back in my previous career before owning my own business, I spent countless hours hanging around various types of factories in Asia and other parts of the country. ".
In which country is Asia located, Grimmy?
I assume you mean the PRC. Is that correct?
It is also not clear which time period Grimmy is talking about. If I assume that his estimate of factory workers' wages is accurate, it was probably the early to mid 1990's. I get that from the attached graph showing the exponential increase in average Chinese manufacturing wage vs year. In the early 1990's, Chinese workers did make very little.
I have a problem with Grimmy's story about the factory boss offering any employee that Grimmy fancies for a night of fun. Even during the extreme corruption of the late Jiang Zemin and early Hu Jintao eras, it is highly unlikely that the boss could just offer any factory worker, like they do from lineups in brothels. Probably a misunderstanding.
You see Grimmy, I did not like you spend "countless hours" in Asia, I spent 18 years there, almost 12 months each year. I have a Chinese wife and I am fluent in Mandarin. I have studied Chinese culture especially related to health care. So lets go on.
The boss could have no doubt found a girl willing to share a good time with Grimmy but not just any girl. To understand this, some historical context is helpful.
It is so helpful to understand historical context of a cultural phenomenon.
Prostitution was a state supported profession during most of the Chinese dynasties. There was no shame in visiting a brothel in Tang (618-906 AD), Song (960-1279 AD), Ming (1368-1640 AD) or Qing (1644-1912 AD) China. During the Song and Ming Dynasties (960-1640 AD, about 700 years), brothels were openly frequented by poets, artists, scholars and nobility. These customers had to provide monetary gifts and court the prostitutes to win their favor. If a prostitute did not want to make love with a customer, even after he had paid her, that was her right. In the preceding Tang Dynasty (300 years), prostitutes were greatly respected as women who had broken free from rural poverty to achieve economic success and sexual freedom. During the reign of the Tang empress Wu, prostitutes achieved their highest status in Chinese society. To sum it up, there were never any sanctions on prostitutes, male or female in Ancient China until the CCP took over in 1949. The CCP banned and successfully suppressed prostitution.
Since imperial China's sex workers had served the wealthy classes and since the CCP's goal was to create a classless society, between 1950 and 1978, prostitution was crushed with police raids and confinement of sex workers in re-education centers.
In parallel with the Chinese commercial sex industry, there was a larger society of millions of Chinese families who believed that, though sex was fun, its main purpose was procreation. In these situations, first marriages for boys were arranged by the families and were a kind of business deal to mutually benefit the two families. There was a silver lining for the groom. If his family farm was economically successful, he could, after his first wife had a few children, take and keep more wives for more fun and more children. Read for example "The Good Earth" by Pearl Buck.
This did not work out so well for rural women who had little or no choice regarding marriage partners, who were forbidden to have extra-marital relationships and who could not divorce their husbands. During the CCP period (1950 1978), a more gender equal society was created by allowing only one wife per husband and allowing fairly easy divorce for either party. However, premarital and extramarital sex was forbidden for everyone.
In 1978, Deng Xiao Ping, the new leader of the PRC instituted widespread economic and political reforms. Private businesses spread across China, especially in designated areas along the southeast coast. The hukou laws that restricted the internal travel of rural people were loosened and prostitution bans were lifted or not enforced. This resulted in massive relocations of people from rural to urban regions and the growth of a wealthy class of business elites who had money to burn on recreational fun. Young rural women and girls, some single, some married moved from the poor rural areas to the growing prosperity of the cities to work in factories and shops so they could better support themselves and their families.
These new female arrivals also found employment in brothels, saunas, massage parlors.
https://pornzog.com/video/11127138/an-erotic-masseuse-little-wei-by-party-manny/
As hotel ding-dong xiaojies shown here.
https://pornzog.com/video/12354886/an-erotic-masseuse-little-sugar-original-by-party-manny/
And in the alley cathouses like the one shown below.
https://motherless.com/AB6FB8D
Some of these young women sought out jobs in the hotel, restaurant and entertainment industries. They had hopes to meet wealthy travelling Chinese and foreign executives and professionals. Their visions included both compensated dates and long term lucrative relationships with male visitors from other Chinese cities, from Hong Kong, Taiwan and from foreign countries. Enter our hero, Grimmy. It would have been so interesting if Grimmy had accepted the date with the front desk hotel employee and lived to tell us about it. On one occasion, a waitress approached me with a similar proposition. After she ended her shift, I walked her home quite platonically. I took her number but never saw her again.
This was part of the Chinese sexual revolution. One study of Chinese women's sexual practices found that as many as 29% of older men who had undergone graduate education had, at some time in their lives, paid money or other material compensation directly for sexual services. This is higher than in the US or most European countries. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2057150X221114599.
Seen in the context of the prior imperial history of social acceptance of prostitution, this sexual revolution was like a re-awakening of an ancient cultural norm. Like their predecessors in the dynastic era, young women who, in childhood, had experienced destitution and the humiliation of arranged marriages on the farms were elevated to the status of modern day concubines and courtesans. They did not have to marry a grubby farmer in their home town. Instead, they could have countless husbands, each for a few hours and each providing financial support that was unheard of back home.
A part of this revolution was the liberation of both men and women to receive material benefits in exchange for sex. Yes, this applied to young men sought out by wealthy Chinese women as well as to female pros. One study showed that 2 to 5 % of Chinese women had purchased sex from a man during their lifetimes.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2057150X221114599
Note that this is much higher than similar percentages of western women who pay for sex with men. I experienced two such "dates" where Chinese business women paid for my air transport and hotels to their home cities and gave me an allowance if I would sexually entertain them in hotel rooms. These two women were far from attractive but were ardent lovers who especially enjoyed cunnilingus, a treat that they had a hard time finding among local men. Attached is a photo of one of my two "clients" enjoying my company.
Unfortunately, Chairman Xi stifled this sexual revolution starting in about 2012 until the present. It is still fairly easy to find pros in the big cities but the rates have gone up, the quality of service has dropped and it is difficult to impossible to take the girl to your hotel room.
I am a cautious fan of Chairman Xi because he has done much to alleviate the poverty that in rural areas and he has supported health care and education in China. However, I do wish he would allow the return of ding-dong xiaojies and massage saunas.
I hope you guys will all visit China some day. But please make an effort to understand this wonderful country. Read a good history like that by Spencer or Wasserstrom. Read something about Confucianism and go with an open mind.There is so much to unpack in Grimmy's post. Lets start with the first sentence:
"Back in my previous career before owning my own business, I spent countless hours hanging around various types of factories in Asia and other parts of the country."
In which country is Asia located, Grimmy?
I assume you mean the PRC. Is that correct?
It is also not clear which time period Grimmy is talking about. If I assume that his estimate of factory workers' wages is accurate, it was probably the early to mid 1990's. I get that from the attached graph showing the exponential increase in average Chinese manufacturing wage vs year. In the early 1990's, Chinese workers did make very little.
I have a problem with Grimmy's story about the factory boss offering any employee that Grimmy fancies for a night of fun. Even during the extreme corruption of the late Jiang Zemin and early Hu Jintao eras, it is highly unlikely that the boss could just offer any factory worker, like they do from lineups in brothels. Probably a misunderstanding.
You see Grimmy, I did not like you spend "countless hours" in Asia, I spent 18 years there, almost 12 months each year. I have a Chinese wife and I am fluent in Mandarin. I have studied Chinese culture especially related to health care. So lets go on.
The boss could have no doubt found a girl willing to share a good time with Grimmy but not just any girl. To understand this, some historical context is helpful.
It is so helpful to understand historical context of a cultural phenomenon.
Prostitution was a state supported profession during most of the Chinese dynasties. There was no shame in visiting a brothel in Tang (618-906 AD), Song (960-1279 AD), Ming (1368-1640 AD) or Qing (1644-1912 AD) China. During the Song and Ming Dynasties (960-1640 AD, about 700 years), brothels were openly frequented by poets, artists, scholars and nobility. These customers had to provide monetary gifts and court the prostitutes to win their favor. If a prostitute did not want to make love with a customer, even after he had paid her, that was her right. In the preceding Tang Dynasty (300 years), prostitutes were greatly respected as women who had broken free from rural poverty to achieve economic success and sexual freedom. During the reign of the Tang empress Wu, prostitutes achieved their highest status in Chinese society. To sum it up, there were never any sanctions on prostitutes, male or female in Ancient China until the CCP took over in 1949. The CCP banned and successfully suppressed prostitution.
Since imperial China's sex workers had served the wealthy classes and since the CCP's goal was to create a classless society, between 1950 and 1978, prostitution was crushed with police raids and confinement of sex workers in re-education centers.
In parallel with the Chinese commercial sex industry, there was a larger society of millions of Chinese families who believed that, though sex was fun, its main purpose was procreation. In these situations, first marriages for boys were arranged by the families and were a kind of business deal to mutually benefit the two families. There was a silver lining for the groom. If his family farm was economically successful, he could, after his first wife had a few children, take and keep more wives for more fun and more children. Read for example "The Good Earth" by Pearl Buck.
This did not work out so well for rural women who had little or no choice regarding marriage partners, who were forbidden to have extra-marital relationships and who could not divorce their husbands. During the CCP period (1950 1978), a more gender equal society was created by allowing only one wife per husband and allowing fairly easy divorce for either party. However, premarital and extramarital sex was forbidden for everyone.
In 1978, Deng Xiao Ping, the new leader of the PRC instituted widespread economic and political reforms. Private businesses spread across China, especially in designated areas along the southeast coast. The hukou laws that restricted the internal travel of rural people were loosened and prostitution bans were lifted or not enforced. This resulted in massive relocations of people from rural to urban regions and the growth of a wealthy class of business elites who had money to burn on recreational fun. Young rural women and girls, some single, some married moved from the poor rural areas to the growing prosperity of the cities to work in factories and shops so they could better support themselves and their families.
These new female arrivals also found employment in brothels, saunas, massage parlors.
https://pornzog.com/video/11127138/a...y-party-manny/
As hotel ding-dong xiaojies shown here.
https://pornzog.com/video/12354886/a...y-party-manny/
And in the alley cathouses like the one shown below.
https://motherless.com/AB6FB8D
Some of these young women sought out jobs in the hotel, restaurant and entertainment industries. They had hopes to meet wealthy travelling Chinese and foreign executives and professionals. Their visions included both compensated dates and long term lucrative relationships with male visitors from other Chinese cities, from Hong Kong, Taiwan and from foreign countries. Enter our hero, Grimmy. It would have been so interesting if Grimmy had accepted the date with the front desk hotel employee and lived to tell us about it. On one occasion, a waitress approached me with a similar proposition. After she ended her shift, I walked her home quite platonically. I took her number but never saw her again.
This was part of the Chinese sexual revolution. One study of Chinese women's sexual practices found that as many as 29% of older men who had undergone graduate education had, at some time in their lives, paid money or other material compensation directly for sexual services. This is higher than in the US or most European countries. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/ful...7150X221114599.
Seen in the context of the prior imperial history of social acceptance of prostitution, this sexual revolution was like a re-awakening of an ancient cultural norm. Like their predecessors in the dynastic era, young women who, in childhood, had experienced destitution and the humiliation of arranged marriages on the farms were elevated to the status of modern day concubines and courtesans. They did not have to marry a grubby farmer in their home town. Instead, they could have countless husbands, each for a few hours and each providing financial support that was unheard of back home.
A part of this revolution was the liberation of both men and women to receive material benefits in exchange for sex. Yes, this applied to young men sought out by wealthy Chinese women as well as to female pros. One study showed that 2 to 5 % of Chinese women had purchased sex from a man during their lifetimes.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/ful...7150X221114599
Note that this is much higher than similar percentages of western women who pay for sex with men. I experienced two such "dates" where Chinese business women paid for my air transport and hotels to their home cities and gave me an allowance if I would sexually entertain them in hotel rooms. These two women were far from attractive but were ardent lovers who especially enjoyed cunnilingus, a treat that they had a hard time finding among local men. Attached is a photo of one of my two "clients" enjoying my company.
Unfortunately, Chairman Xi stifled this sexual revolution starting in about 2012 until the present. It is still fairly easy to find pros in the big cities but the rates have gone up, the quality of service has dropped and it is difficult to impossible to take the girl to your hotel room.
I am a cautious fan of Chairman Xi because he has done much to alleviate the poverty that in rural areas and he has supported health care and education in China. However, I do wish he would allow the return of ding-dong xiaojies and massage saunas.
I hope you guys will all visit China some day. But please make an effort to understand this wonderful country. Read a good history like that by Spencer or Wasserstrom. Read something about Confucianism and go with an open mind.
BSouthgate
06-24-24, 12:05
I know of shops in Westminster where the girls sleep overnight in the shop. I am sure that's not legal. Other local shops have a safe house provided by owner, where they get rent from their employees. In one case, owner has several manufactured homes across the street from the shop. In almost all shops, you can catch a girl catching a catnap during business hours too.
As for whether its imprisonment or not. Just imagine if someone dropped you into the middle of China illegally. How well could you navigate the roads, much less ask anyone for help, or go to the authorities. That's not imprisonment, but its defacto "up a creek". When providers do jump ship, they seem to have access to some networks on WeChat where there is word of mouth announcements of other jobs. In some cases, one girl saves enough money to open her own shop, and then invites some trusted friends to come to her new shop.I know a guy who goes to massage parlors to find angels to have fun with. I am sure that is not legal. Other guys take hotel rooms across the street and invite the massage women to join them for a night.
Dark Room. It may not be legal in the US but neither are our escapades at the OC MPs.
"Just imagine if someone dropped you into the middle of China illegally."
I am imagining. I would head for the nearest sauna or massage parlor. I would be greeted by loads of curious and kind people who would direct me to where I can get help from the local police or social services or maybe I would watch Karaoke in the park like this lady. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rteCO3uPAMk
Don't make so many assumptions about a country you know almost nothing about. Go there and see for yourself.
There is so much to unpack in Grimmy's post. Lets start with the first sentence:
"Back in my previous career before owning my own business, I spent countless hours hanging around various types of factories in Asia and other parts of the country. ".
In which country is Asia located, Grimmy?
I assume you mean the PRC. Is that correct?
It is also not clear which time period Grimmy is talking about. If I assume that his estimate of factory workers' wages is accurate, it was probably the early to mid 1990's. I get that from the attached graph showing the exponential increase in average Chinese manufacturing wage vs year. In the early 1990's, Chinese workers did make very little.
I have a problem with Grimmy's story about the factory boss offering any employee that Grimmy fancies for a night of fun. Even during the extreme corruption of the late Jiang Zemin and early Hu Jintao eras, it is highly unlikely that the boss could just offer any factory worker, like they do from lineups in brothels. Probably a misunderstanding.
A couple points of clarification.
First of all, what I meant to say was "various other places around the WORLD. " Yes, I spent a crap ton of time in China. I also spent a lot of time in places like the Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia, Japan, and many other Asian countries. I even visited a factory in North Korea and spent a night in the DPRK which was an entirely different experience. Long story, but there was a short window of time when the two Koreas were cooperating, and they had a joint factory in the North so that the North Koreans would have jobs and the South had access to cheap North Korean labor. Up there you're literally locked in your hotel room. You can't leave without your government assigned guide. I was encouraged to get a massage in the hotel "spa" since I couldn't go anywhere. The spa was really a BJ factory staffed by Chinese girls who were there to service the foreigners who weren't allowed to leave the building. Anyway, I digress. I also did many other similar work trips in Europe.
Out of all of the places I've been, which at last count is somewhere between 65 and 70 countries, there are three where I feel like sex literally followed me everywhere: China, the Philippines, and Thailand. There are many other countries where it's readily available, including many in Europe, but in those countries you have to go looking for it. In these three it just shows up at your door whether you're looking for it it not. This isn't to say I have a bad opinion of any of these countries' cultures. I definitely do not. But it is very safe to say that attitudes towards sex and sex workers are very different than the western attitudes towards them.
Yes, the days of the Chinese factory workers making $1 or $2/ day wages was from my first trip to China in 1990. Using the standard rule of thumb of the cost of things doubling every 10 years, that would be closer to $16-$18/ day today. As recently as 2016 I was working for a very large and very deep pocketed multi-national corporation with 250,000 employees. I know for a fact that our factory workers, who were working in a very nice, modern factory just outside of Shanghai, were making about $500/ month, which was above the local average wage. My $18/ day estimate is pretty much right on par with that.
China is in many ways (ignoring its government and human rights record, of course) a beautiful and amazing country with a very vibrant culture. In other ways, there are things that are incredibly disturbing. For example, the last factory I mentioned was about 15-20 minutes outside of central Shanghai. It was a really nice, modern building with all of the modern amenities and better working conditions than many US factories I've been in. However, it was in the middle of a neighborhood full of houses that were literally falling down, with families still living in them. Literally, one or two of the walls would be piles of brick rubble, and were replaced by blue tarps. The car ride into the factory was always pretty depressing as I saw more poverty than I've seen almost anywhere else on Earth (with one exception being in Cap Haitian, Haiti). I spent a good deal of my time in China off the beaten path in areas like this.
As for the factory story and girls being offered to me, that may have been partially a misunderstanding. Again, it was back in the early 90's. I was in my early 20's and obviously not as seasoned and well traveled as I am now. There was a definite language barrier in play. I spoke no Mandarin (and still don't) and my hosts spoke only basic English. I can say with 100% certainty that I was offered girls from the factory to be delivered to my hotel room. Maybe I misunderstood it to mean "any girl I wanted. " Maybe they just had a select few who were willing to have fun outside of work. I don't know and I wasn't really interested in finding out back then. It was a new thing to me that I wasn't expecting, and I was just getting my career started and wasn't willing to take any risks without knowing the landscape.
Regarding the hotel workers, I can also say with 100% confidence that I was propositioned by them as recently as 2016. This was in a nice business class hotel in central Shanghai, and it happened more than once. I didn't partake on that trip, but on one occasion on an earlier trip I did take the opportunity to "have a drink" with one of the front desk girls after she got off work and it resulted in her ending up my room for about $100. So it still happens there, or at least did still happen there as recently as 8 years ago. Perhaps an American there by himself on a business trip gets treated a little differently, and perhaps things have changed since then.
Please note that none of this is me knocking Chinese society or culture at all. I had some of my best mongering times ever in China. The sauna clubs in Shanghai were amazing. Better than anything I ever had in Thailand for less money, and usually with younger, prettier girls. No need to get deep into details here, but I had things done to me there that I still haven't experienced anywhere else. I have heard that the CCP cracked down on most of that shortly after my last visit. All of the sauna clubs got raided and shut down, and the scene has been a lot tighter ever since. I abruptly left the Corporate world in the middle of 2016 and from what I've heard it wasn't a moment too soon. I'm sure the sex industry is still thriving there. You don't just pull the plug on something like that and expect it to go away. But it seems like it is much more underground now than it once was.
I know of shops in Westminster where the girls sleep overnight in the shop. I am sure that's not legal. Other local shops have a safe house provided by owner, where they get rent from their employees. In one case, owner has several manufactured homes across the street from the shop. In almost all shops, you can catch a girl catching a catnap during business hours too.
As for whether its imprisonment or not. Just imagine if someone dropped you into the middle of China illegally. How well could you navigate the roads, much less ask anyone for help, or go to the authorities. That's not imprisonment, but its defacto "up a creek". When providers do jump ship, they seem to have access to some networks on WeChat where there is word of mouth announcements of other jobs. In some cases, one girl saves enough money to open her own shop, and then invites some trusted friends to come to her new shop.Sleeping overnight in the shop is most definitely illegal. I don't know of a single city in California that allows people to sleep in a massage related business. It is specifically spelled out in the terms of your business license. Mine says that we can't be open past 10 PM and all occupants must be out of the building no later than 11. There are also usually zoning regulations in place that specify no sleeping in storefronts.
BSouthgate
06-24-24, 14:50
A couple points of clarification.
First of all, what I meant to say was "various other places around the WORLD. " Yes, I spent a crap ton of time in China. I also spent a lot of time in places like the Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia, Japan, and many other Asian countries. I even visited a factory in North Korea and spent a night in the DPRK which was an entirely different experience. Long story, but there was a short window of time when the two Koreas were cooperating, and they had a joint factory in the North so that the North Koreans would have jobs and the South had access to cheap North Korean labor. Up there you're literally locked in your hotel room. You can't leave without your government assigned guide. I was encouraged to get a massage in the hotel "spa" since I couldn't go anywhere. The spa was really a BJ factory staffed by Chinese girls who were there to service the foreigners who weren't allowed to leave the building. Anyway, I digress. I also did many other similar work trips in Europe.
Out of all of the places I've been, which at last count is somewhere between 65 and 70 countries, there are three where I feel like sex literally followed me everywhere: China, the Philippines, and Thailand. There are many other countries where it's readily available, including many in Europe, but in those countries you have to go looking for it. In these three it just shows up at your door whether you're looking for it it not. This isn't to say I have a bad opinion of any of these countries' cultures. I definitely do not. But it is very safe to say that attitudes towards sex and sex workers are very different than the western attitudes towards them.
Yes, the days of the Chinese factory workers making $1 or $2/ day wages was from my first trip to China in 1990. Using the standard rule of thumb of the cost of things doubling every 10 years, that would be closer to $16-$18/ day today. As recently as 2016 I was working for a very large and very deep pocketed multi-national corporation with 250,000 employees. I know for a fact that our factory workers, who were working in a very nice, modern factory just outside of Shanghai, were making about $500/ month, which was above the local average wage. My $18/ day estimate is pretty much right on par with that.Thanks for these clarifications. You are approaching something like accuracy regarding the PRC and prostitution therein. Still some homework to do.
1. Chinese factory workers made on average more than $40 per day in 2023. So your estimate of $16 to $18 is still way off the mark. See attached graph.
2. If you read my prior post, you will understand that there are Chinese women who enter the hotel business for access to relatively wealthy male customers. Some, like your Shanghai date 8 years ago, want casual compensated dates. Some are looking for marriage partners. Perhaps the waitress in the story in my post below was looking for a husband.
3. Yes, the CCP has cracked down on prostitution. Read my prior post for details. P4 P is still available but harder to find and more expensive.
4. On the positive side, besides the enormous increases in workers wages since 1990, there have been many other positive development within the PRC. Among them,
A. Life expectancy at birth continues to increase. The highest LE is in large cities like Shanghai where it approaches that in large US cities. However, the biggest increases are in the rural hinterlands.
B. China has the highest per capita survival rate from the recent COVID pandemic.
C. Medical insurance coverage has been extended to include 96% of the population from about 50% when I started doing medical work in China in 2003.
D. Poverty as defined by the World Bank has decreased to almost zero in China.
E. China is leading the world in production of clean technology, especially solar panels and EVs.
So, if you want to witness a socio-economic miracle, go to China and stay awhile. If you want to have a sex vacation, Thailand is better. Hong Kong also pretty good.
Thank you for this great exchange.
Thanks for these clarifications. You are approaching something like accuracy regarding the PRC and prostitution therein. Still some homework to do.
Thank you for this great exchange.Thank you as well. It's nice to be able to have a civil discussion on here once in a while.
Once again, my last trip to China was in 2016, which was 8 years ago. If you once again follow the "10 year rule," my $18/ day estimate would be approaching $36/ day now. So my numbers are still tracking relatively closely with what you are reporting.
It's good to know the poverty level is down. I still have vivid pictures etched in my mind of being driven to the factory in the Minhang district of Shanghai and seeing all of the people living in houses that had half fallen down. The only other place I've seen something like that was in Haiti, and what I saw in Minhang was every bit as bad and in some cases worse.
I know the famous Shanghai sauna clubs got abruptly taken out shortly after my last visit and haven't made a comeback. I had many fun and memorable visits to those places, so it's sad to see them gone even though I will never be likely to travel to China alone again. So many memories of picking a girl out of the fishbowl and feeling like a kid in a candy shop and having a hard time making a decision. And if I didn't feel like going to a sauna club, rest assured a girl would magically show up in the hotel lobby. I knew if I sat there longer than half an hour or so at least one or two would show up. And once in a while that girl would even be part of the hotel staff.
Back in the 90's it was very, very difficult to find any action in Hong Kong. What was available in HK was prohibitively expensive for me at the time. I understand that has changed significantly. I used to go to HK and then cross the border into Shenzhen. Sex was very much available in Shenzhen. The street hookers were out in full force. I literally couldn't walk 10 feet down a public street without being propositioned. I even remember checking into hotels in Shenzhen, Guangzhao, Donguan, and a few other cities and the hookers literally started calling me in my room. "Hello. Chinese girl. Massagee? That was pre-cell phone days obviously. I remember I usually had to unplug the phone in my room to get any sleep.
China had the highest Covid survival rate because the government took very draconian measures to lock people down. Was that the right approach? Well you can't argue with how successful it was in limiting the spread, but you also have to realize that those types of measures would never have worked here. People raised holy hell over just being required to wear masks in public places. If we started locking people into their housing units we would have had widespread civil unrest. That's an entirely different discussion that goes well outside the scope of this forum though.
BSouthgate
06-24-24, 17:54
Thank you as well. It's nice to be able to have a civil discussion on here once in a while.
Once again, my last trip to China was in 2016, which was 8 years ago. If you once again follow the "10 year rule," my $18/ day estimate would be approaching $36/ day now. So my numbers are still tracking relatively closely with what you are reporting.
It's good to know the poverty level is down. I still have vivid pictures etched in my mind of being driven to the factory in the Minhang district of Shanghai and seeing all of the people living in houses that had half fallen down. The only other place I've seen something like that was in Haiti, and what I saw in Minhang was every bit as bad and in some cases worse.
I know the famous Shanghai sauna clubs got abruptly taken out shortly after my last visit and haven't made a comeback. I had many fun and memorable visits to those places, so it's sad to see them gone even though I will never be likely to travel to China alone again. So many memories of picking a girl out of the fishbowl and feeling like a kid in a candy shop and having a hard time making a decision. And if I didn't feel like going to a sauna club, rest assured a girl would magically show up in the hotel lobby. I knew if I sat there longer than half an hour or so at least one or two would show up. And once in a while that girl would even be part of the hotel staff..I also loved these places. Many of those that I frequented catered to families as well as to single guys looking for sex. You registered at a checkin desk like in a hotel. There you had take off your shoes and exchange them for the house flip flops. Men and women went to different shower facilities to shower and bathe in hot tubs. There was a guy in the locker room who gave non sexual massages using a kind of sand paper sponge that rubbed off all of the dead skin on all of your body. For the guys, this was a way of making your skin more sensitive when you got to the top floor (See below). After showering and changing into the house paper pajamas, you went up stairs to a large lounge that had dozens of massage sofas. Next to the lounge, there was a restaurant where you could eat a simple lunch. Young masseurs and masseuses circulated among the sofas offering Chinese foot massage which is very relaxing. For single guys, a floor manager would come by and ask if you wanted to take to the elevator to the top floor for special service massage. There was very little pressure. All very relaxed.
If you wanted to go to the top floor, the floor manager would accompany you to the elevator and send you on your way. When the door opened on the top floor, you would step into heaven. Scantily clad angels were everywhere. One would lead you to a room, exit and return with five or six other women. You had to choose. I usually chose by eye contact. If she was looking directly at me, I pointed at her. Maybe you had a better way of choosing.
After all the girls left the room, it was kind of like in this video:
https://motherless.com/7107D9A
Your masseuse would negotiate a price with you. It was usually $50 to $100 depending on the sauna, masseuse and services. I do not ever remember being rushed and I always was completely satisfied. Rimming and BBBJ were standard. Intercourse always with a condom.
After your blissful session, back downstairs for another foot massage or a plate of fried rice. Then back to the locker room to change clothes. On the way out, you paid a running tab that included everything. Wonderful establishments. Too bad they are gone.
I also loved these places. Many of those that I frequented catered to families as well as to single guys looking for sex. You registered at a checkin desk like in a hotel. There you had take off your shoes and exchange them for the house flip flops. Men and women went to different shower facilities to shower and bathe in hot tubs. There was a guy in the locker room who gave non sexual massages using a kind of sand paper sponge that rubbed off all of the dead skin on all of your body. For the guys, this was a way of making your skin more sensitive when you got to the top floor (See below). After showering and changing into the house paper pajamas, you went up stairs to a large lounge that had dozens of massage sofas. Next to the lounge, there was a restaurant where you could eat a simple lunch. Young masseurs and masseuses circulated among the sofas offering Chinese foot massage which is very relaxing. For single guys, a floor manager would come by and ask if you wanted to take to the elevator to the top floor for special service massage. There was very little pressure. All very relaxed.
If you wanted to go to the top floor, the floor manager would accompany you to the elevator and send you on your way. When the door opened on the top floor, you would step into heaven. Scantily clad angels were everywhere. One would lead you to a room, exit and return with five or six other women. You had to choose. I usually chose by eye contact. If she was looking directly at me, I pointed at her. Maybe you had a better way of choosing.
After all the girls left the room, it was kind of like in this video:
https://motherless.com/7107D9A
Your masseuse would negotiate a price with you. It was usually $50 to $100 depending on the sauna, masseuse and services. I do not ever remember being rushed and I always was completely satisfied. Rimming and BBBJ were standard. Intercourse always with a condom.
After your blissful session, back downstairs for another foot massage or a plate of fried rice. Then back to the locker room to change clothes. On the way out, you paid a running tab that included everything. Wonderful establishments. Too bad they are gone.My Chinese sauna experience was slightly different. I had 3 or 4 that I frequented that were all within walking distance of the Shanghai hotel I always stayed in. The routine in all four of them was I was immediately ushered into a locker room. None of these places were family friendly at all. They were strictly men's saunas. Things got a little weird (by Western standards) for the next few minutes. There were always male attendants helping you through the next few steps. In the locker room you'd strip naked and a male attendant would help you get your clothes in the locker and give you the key, which you wore around your wrist. You'd then walk down the hall to the showers and take a shower in full view of a bunch of other people (other naked male customers as well as clothed attendants). In a couple of them, male technicians would literally walk right into your shower stall (while fully clothed) to offer you the body scrub services. I always declined that. I just felt really weird having a clothed male walk up to me while I was showering to try to upsell me a scrub that he would be performing. When you were done showering, a male attendant would summon you over to his area where he would help dry you off and help you get dressed in the PJs. Again, just a little weird by our standards, but I know it wasn't seen as weird there so I just went with it. Somewhere along the way it seemed that there were always at least 1 or 2 Chinese customers doing push-ups naked. Just another slightly weird thing that I never understood. No biggie. Just deal with it.
After all of that, I would be escorted to a lounge room and directed to kick back in a comfortable recliner. The room had TVs playing some Chinese show. Not sure what it was. An attendant, usually slightly older female, would come up to offer me a drink and tell me to just relax for a little bit. Usually after about 10-15 minutes, a guy would get me and walk me to the fishbowl area where there would usually be between 15-20 girls standing behind glass. Unlike in Thailand, this was 2-way glass where the girls can see you. This was total kid in a candy store time. Some girls would make eye contact, some wouldn't. Some would smile at you or give you kind of a flirty seductive look. Some would give you more of a cold stare or look away or to the ground. I'd obviously avoid the latter. They didn't seem too interested in getting it on with a white guy. I'd go for the ones who smiled and seemed interested, but at the same time were a little bit shy. The one thing I learned was to not let the male rush you, as he usually would. He'd always say things like "you should select number 72. She gives a great massage. " But I just learned over time to tune him out and take my time. Some of the girls were very scantily clad in skimpy bikinis. Some were more modestly dressed. Some were extremely young looking. Some were older. There was a ton of variation and I always put a lot of thought into who to choose.
Once I chose a girl and got into the room, almost always the first thing that would happen is she would give me a big hug and DFK, then immediately pull my PJs off and direct me to the wet area. She'd remove her clothes and give me a very thorough bathing, starting with me sitting in the plastic chair that had a big slit in the center so that she could easily wash everything. That usually resulted in her soapy finger going up my back door to get it nice and clean. From there it was off to the table where she would do a soapy body slide back and front. A nice long rim job was always part of this step. Shanghai is where I got my first ever rim job and they were always absolutely heavenly. Then she'd dry me off and the real fun started. Everything was always on the table. BBBJ, CFS, sometimes even anal, but that depended on the girl.
After the main event the girl would walk you out to the hall, where you'd be met by another hot young scantily clad girl who wanted to sell you something like ear wax removal. I did it once or twice. There was no real hanky panky. Her clothes would stay on. She'd allow your hands to wander a little bit and hers might wander a little bit as well, but it was more of having a young Chinese hottie get flirty with you while she used a wooden tool to pick the wax out of your ears. They had other services like manicures and such as well.
After that you were offered the opportunity to either go back to your locker and change, or go back to the TV room for another round with another girl. I've never been one who could pop twice in fairly rapid succession. Even when I was younger I always needed a couple hours to recharge. So I always just left at this point and maybe went back later in the evening if I felt up to it.
I would give almost anything for an experience like that again. We don't have anything in the US that even comes close to matching up, and Shanghai no longer has them either (outside of maybe a couple that are operating underground). Those sauna clubs rank right up there among my best mongering experiences of all time, and they might even be #1 on my list.
DarkRoomDaddy
06-25-24, 13:04
Thanks for these clarifications. You are approaching something like accuracy regarding the PRC and prostitution therein. Still some homework to do.
1. Chinese factory workers made on average more than $40 per day in 2023. So your estimate of $16 to $18 is still way off the mark. See attached graph.
2. If you read my prior post, you will understand that there are Chinese women who enter the hotel business for access to relatively wealthy male customers. Some, like your Shanghai date 8 years ago, want casual compensated dates. Some are looking for marriage partners. Perhaps the waitress in the story in my post below was looking for a husband.
3. Yes, the CCP has cracked down on prostitution. Read my prior post for details. P4 P is still available but harder to find and more expensive.
4. On the positive side, besides the enormous increases in workers wages since 1990, there have been many other positive development within the PRC. Among them,
A. Life expectancy at birth continues to increase. The highest LE is in large cities like Shanghai where it approaches that in large US cities. However, the biggest increases are in the rural hinterlands.This disagrees with all the info I have. And I am on this daily.
As of a year ago, the #2 guy in China after Xi was Li Kechiang who said that 900,000 Chinese make less than $300 a year. Now that was the good times. Now its all hitting the fan. The Chinese economy is about to implode. The housing market is crashing, some of the biggest developers have gone bankrupt, the cities which financed their operations through landsales are now screwed, people are losing their life savings in homes that are paid for but never built. There is growing social unrest. With employees not paid for months, people unable to withdraw their savings, etc. There is a demographic bomb of a huge number of baby boomers about to retire but with a small number of young Chinese to take their place. And those that do, are not willing to work the same as past generations. There is a "lie flat" or "let it rot" attitude among the young people.
According to state controlled media, China is number one in the world in everything. During the early stages of the pandemic almost no one was dying in China. Unlike the rest of the world. And yet independent studies on the number of cremations going 24 hours a day, and the number of phone lines disconnected during that period suggest the death toll was 10-100 times as bad as they said it was.
China is one of the most polluted countries on earth. In most big cities rare to see the sunshine through the smog. There are epidemics of fake dangerous food stuff and tofu dreg buildings, bridges, roads, and subway tunnels collapsing.
Virtually all of their technological achievements have come from forced tech transfers or outright espionage. Christopher Wray, director of FBI, said that China is mounting the largest espionage and tech stealing program in the world. Bigger than the rest of the world put together.
On the flip side, the tiny country of Taiwan and even smaller Singapore and Hong Kong demonstrate the potential of Chinese people. Allowed to prosper without the shackles of the military dictatorship of mainland China.
So that's the context of ladies coming to the US to work. They can make enough to support a huge family back home. In one day of taking their clothes off, they can make more than hubby or dad makes in a year. If you have dated or married any woman. Chinese, other Asian, American, Latina, etc. What percentage love sucking cum, and taking it up the ass? Maybe 0.1%? That's when they love you. Now imagine your a perfect stranger in a dark room. How much do you think they genuinely love all this stuff hour and hour with nameless dudes? Chinese culture is actually conservative. And you almost never see kissing or holding hands on Chinese tv. And for these girls to go total kink? Nah, its all for the benjamins baby.
BSouthgate
06-26-24, 00:43
This disagrees with all the info I have. And I am on this daily.
As of a year ago, the #2 guy in China after Xi was Li Kechiang who said that 900,000 Chinese make less than $300 a year. Now that was the good times. Now its all hitting the fan. The Chinese economy is about to implode. The housing market is crashing, some of the biggest developers have gone bankrupt, the cities which financed their operations through landsales are now screwed, people are losing their life savings in homes that are paid for but never built. There is growing social unrest. With employees not paid for months, people unable to withdraw their savings, etc. There is a demographic bomb of a huge number of baby boomers about to retire but with a small number of young Chinese to take their place. And those that do, are not willing to work the same as past generations. There is a "lie flat" or "let it rot" attitude among the young people.
According to state controlled media, China is number one in the world in everything. During the early stages of the pandemic almost no one was dying in China. Unlike the rest of the world. And yet independent studies on the number of cremations going 24 hours a day, and the number of phone lines disconnected during that period suggest the death toll was 10-100 times as bad as they said it was.
China is one of the most polluted countries on earth. In most big cities rare to see the sunshine through the smog. There are epidemics of fake dangerous food stuff and tofu dreg buildings, bridges, roads, and subway tunnels collapsing.
Virtually all of their technological achievements have come from forced tech transfers or outright espionage. Christopher Wray, director of FBI, said that China is mounting the largest espionage and tech stealing program in the world. Bigger than the rest of the world put together.DRD obviously hates China. But the Chinese people do not. How much time has DRD spent in China? Where are the sources of his bullshit? There are none cited.
BSouthgate
06-26-24, 00:48
My Chinese sauna experience was slightly different. I had 3 or 4 that I frequented that were all within walking distance of the Shanghai hotel I always stayed in. The routine in all four of them was I was immediately ushered into a locker room. None of these places were family friendly at all. They were strictly men's saunas. Things got a little weird (by Western standards) for the next few minutes. There were always male attendants helping you through the next few steps. In the locker room you'd strip naked and a male attendant would help you get your clothes in the locker and give you the key, which you wore around your wrist. You'd then walk down the hall to the showers and take a shower in full view of a bunch of other people (other naked male customers as well as clothed attendants). In a couple of them, male technicians would literally walk right into your shower stall (while fully clothed) to offer you the body scrub services. I always declined that. I just felt really weird having a clothed male walk up to me while I was showering to try to upsell me a scrub that he would be performing. When you were done showering, a male attendant would summon you over to his area where he would help dry you off and help you get dressed in the PJs. Again, just a little weird by our standards, but I know it wasn't seen as weird there so I just went with it. Somewhere along the way it seemed that there were always at least 1 or 2 Chinese customers doing push-ups naked. Just another slightly weird thing that I never understood. No biggie. Just deal with it.
After all of that, I would be escorted to a lounge room and directed to kick back in a comfortable recliner. The room had TVs playing some Chinese show. Not sure what it was. An attendant, usually slightly older female, would come up to offer me a drink and tell me to just relax for a little bit. Usually after about 10-15 minutes, a guy would get me and walk me to the fishbowl area where there would usually be between 15-20 girls standing behind glass. Unlike in Thailand, this was 2-way glass where the girls can see you. This was total kid in a candy store time. Some girls would make eye contact, some wouldn't. Some would smile at you or give you kind of a flirty seductive look. Some would give you more of a cold stare or look away or to the ground. I'd obviously avoid the latter. They didn't seem too interested in getting it on with a white guy. I'd go for the ones who smiled and seemed interested, but at the same time were a little bit shy. The one thing I learned was to not let the male rush you, as he usually would. He'd always say things like "you should select number 72. She gives a great massage. " But I just learned over time to tune him out and take my time. Some of the girls were very scantily clad in skimpy bikinis. Some were more modestly dressed. Some were extremely young looking. Some were older. There was a ton of variation and I always put a lot of thought into who to choose.You have a great memory Grimmy.
The all male saunas were mostly in Shanghai, Shenzhen, east coast. Most of those that I frequented were in provincial cities like Chengdu and Kunming. All of them were great.
You have a great memory Grimmy.
The all male saunas were mostly in Shanghai, Shenzhen, east coast. Most of those that I frequented were in provincial cities like Chengdu and Kunming. All of them were great.Ugh, Shenzhen. I used to call it Shitzhen. To be fair, most of my experiences there were in the early to mid-90's when that town was just a shithole. I literally couldn't walk more than 10 feet down a sidewalk without hookers not just propositioning me, but literally grabbing me and trying to pull me into a building. Most of them looked like low class street hookers. Nobody I'd want a toss in the hay with. I don't recall if saunas were a thing there at that time or not. I was still pretty naive about that sort of thing and you didn't just hop on the internet in those days to research stuff. I haven't been back to Shenzhen for many years but I do understand that the city has cleaned up a lot. Quangzhou was a similarly crappy city in those years, and that city has certainly cleaned up significantly.
I remember the Shanghai saunas having red rope service which is something I haven't seen anywhere else. That is where there were a set of red ropes above the bed. The girl would suspend herself from them upside down, then twist the ropes up and start giving you a BJ. As she was blowing you the ropes would untwist, so she's spinning around in a circle while bobbing her head up and down on your dick. It was interesting to say the least. I'm not sure I can say it felt better than a regular BJ but it was an interesting visual.
DarkRoomDaddy
06-26-24, 18:25
DRD obviously hates China. But the Chinese people do not. How much time has DRD spent in China? Where are the sources of his bullshit? There are none cited.I don't appreciate the discourteous response which feels like a personal attack tinged with some unnecessary hostility because I dared to disagree, and provided inconvenient facts that undermined your off topic pro-CCP propoganda narrative. The facts are widely available online.
I am familiar with both China and Chinese for decades. May I ask one question of you? Do you seriously believe what you are saying that mimics the state controlled / censored media and Chinese Communist Party talking points? Or, like the pro-CCP shills on Youtube (who claim there is no genocide or Uighurs, etc.), do you get paid to deliver this kind of message? Its been documented by some YT commentators that Chinese government agents reach out and offer cash payments for people to get online and propagate nonsense.
Yes, many Chinese are unaware of what is happening because they live in a dictatorship. There is no freedom of speech, and no neutral news sources. Several Chinese are in jail now for merely reporting what was happening with the pandemic. Another Chinese lady just got sentenced to 4 years in jail, for claiming she was sexually harassed. Many Chinese believe their media that Americans and Japanese are to blame for their downfall, and are lashing out with stabbing attacks on Americans and Japanese in the past week or two. On the other hand, Chinese are so desperate to get into the US, and they are lining up for miles at the US embassy in Beijing daily, and some sneak across the Mexican boarder now in record numbers.
BSouthgate
06-26-24, 23:10
I don't appreciate the discourteous response which feels like a personal attack tinged with some unnecessary hostility because I dared to disagree, and provided inconvenient facts that undermined your off topic pro-CCP propoganda narrative. The facts are widely available online.
I am familiar with both China and Chinese for decades. May I ask one question of you? Do you seriously believe what you are saying that mimics the state controlled / censored media and Chinese Communist Party talking points? Or, like the pro-CCP shills on Youtube (who claim there is no genocide or Uighurs, etc.), do you get paid to deliver this kind of message? Its been documented by some YT commentators that Chinese government agents reach out and offer cash payments for people to get online and propagate nonsense.
Yes, many Chinese are unaware of what is happening because they live in a dictatorship. There is no freedom of speech, and no neutral news sources. Several Chinese are in jail now for merely reporting what was happening with the pandemic. Another Chinese lady just got sentenced to 4 years in jail, for claiming she was sexually harassed. Many Chinese believe their media that Americans and Japanese are to blame for their downfall, and are lashing out with stabbing attacks on Americans and Japanese in the past week or two. On the other hand, Chinese are so desperate to get into the US, and they are lining up for miles at the US embassy in Beijing daily, and some sneak across the Mexican boarder now in record numbers.Consider this possibility. The Western media propaganda told us that Saddam had WMD. They told us that Putin would be overthrown in a few months after he ordered the Ukraine invasion. They told us that the Russian economy would collapse under western sanctions.
They always make these kinds of lies about China. You are thoroughly convinced because you only read and listen to the western media. Your remarks reflect that since they mirror almost the exact words found in the legacy press (NYT, WP, NYP, BBC, CNN, FOX, etc) Perhaps DRD, you are being lied to like in the case of Saddam and Putin. I can only ask that you consider reading the work of Eric Li.
https://www.amazon.com/Party-Life-Chinese-Governance-Liberalism/dp/9819945216/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3KGID2AC92A4B&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.5OYROleLcu4fnjqBr8cJSu9jwqaMOO0wBbIfI9we42XGjHj071QN20LucGBJIEps.gFN7Eg1i7meTsAFxeQyQLfcKLZMmgC4JEdsbKaQ3Pcw&dib_tag=se&keywords=eric+li+party+life&qid=1719457038&sprefix=eric+li+party+life%2 Caps%2 C135&sr=8-1.
Or, if you don't like to read, try his TED talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0YjL9rZyR0.
Or try this book by a Singaporean foreign minister:
https://www.amazon.com/Has-China-Won-Challenge-American-ebook/dp/B07W55F4G9/ref=sr_1_1?crid=JWICTN7WT9PG&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.y5tageeD9JWWU8Uv6n-wWaKrAzGbtacetj3_CdoSuJzcGndB1-kkrOMiRlnYpz4IlPkOYXt6mD6_mA-43pQGiqNYxSqYm8hBmgMm-WtkAQ8.ia8rAJ3qJPqwu3L8Otp0DoKC65_dij5sbiYvfw4lv40&dib_tag=se&keywords=mahbubani+has+China+won&qid=1719457169&sprefix=mahbubani+has+China+won%2 Caps%2 C136&sr=8-1.
You like Singapore. In your comments you implied that this autocratically run city state is a liberal democracy. Guess you got that from the NYT or Fox.
Or you can try watching Cyrus Jansen.
https://www.capitaleconomics.com/quarterly-china-economic-outlook?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_name=outlook_leadgen_prospect_chn_glb_apr2024_q2chinaeconomicoutlook&utm_term=us_china_outlook&utm_content=responsive&salesforce_campaign_id=701Sj000005sPWQIA2&gad_source=2&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxZqx5uX6hgMVbQCtBh0K4QnPEAAYASAAEgI4SvD_BwE
Or better still, try visiting China for just a month and talking confidentially to some of its people.
No, DRD, I am not paid nor was I ever paid by the CCP. I sacrificed a lot in my life, to help China and I am proud of my contributions.
While the US government degenerates into forever political bickering between politicians controlled by corporations and wealthy donors, China is steadily moving ahead. I helped China a little tiny bit and I am so proud.
You mentioned Li Ke Qiang (correct spelling) in one of your posts. I shook hands with this guy in 2018, October. He probably did say something about 900,000 people still in poverty. Do the math if you are up to it. What percent is 900,000 out of 1.4 billion?
BSouthgate
06-27-24, 10:27
Do the hookers sometimes really enjoy sex? This has been discussed in a few points recently in the MP thread.
My contribution to the discussion is to suggest two books. The first is Martha Stein, Lovers friends slaves, the nine male sexual types and their psycho-sexual transactions with call girls. Stein says she observed about 3,000 sex acts, perhaps exceeding Masters and Johnson's record. The second is Alexa Albert, Brothel, the Mustant Ranch and its women.
I put a lot of credence in women who have spend a whole lot of time with sex workers, talking with them.
Lift Her Up.Thank you for referring this book, Brothel by Alexa Albert, to us.
Albert sees the Mustang Ranch women through the cultural lens that includes the strangeness of prostitutes enjoying sex with clients. Her cultural belief is that it is still novel for women to enjoy sex at all and certainly they cannot enjoy sex with so many guys with whom they have only a casual acquaintance. Despite this flaw in the author's psychology, she does admit that at least 70% of the Mustang hookers orgasm "sometimes" and one orgasms as many as 7 times a day with clients. She notes that the brothel girls do not want to admit sexual enjoyment with clients and mock women who do admit such enjoyment.
Before the 1960's and the American sexual revolution, women rarely admitted enjoying sex and men did not know what a clit was. It was not important for women to enjoy sex though it was clear to me as a child from the sounds emanating from my parents bedroom that Mama was having more fun than Papa. I lived through that era. I remember.
Actually, women can enjoy sex and orgasm much more frequently than men can. They can enjoy with more partners than we can enjoy with. Prostitutes are no different. In fact, they choose their career because their libido and frequency of enjoyment is on the high side.
Thanks again for referring this book. Please enjoy again this video showing hookers having fun.
https://pornzog.com/video/13191912/hookers-in-ecstasy-a-compilation-by-party-manny/
BSouthgate
06-27-24, 13:07
Ugh, Shenzhen. I used to call it Shitzhen. To be fair, most of my experiences there were in the early to mid-90's when that town was just a shithole. I literally couldn't walk more than 10 feet down a sidewalk without hookers not just propositioning me, but literally grabbing me and trying to pull me into a building. Most of them looked like low class street hookers. Nobody I'd want a toss in the hay with. I don't recall if saunas were a thing there at that time or not. I was still pretty naive about that sort of thing and you didn't just hop on the internet in those days to research stuff. I haven't been back to Shenzhen for many years but I do understand that the city has cleaned up a lot. Quangzhou was a similarly crappy city in those years, and that city has certainly cleaned up significantly.
I remember the Shanghai saunas having red rope service which is something I haven't seen anywhere else. That is where there were a set of red ropes above the bed. The girl would suspend herself from them upside down, then twist the ropes up and start giving you a BJ. As she was blowing you the ropes would untwist, so she's spinning around in a circle while bobbing her head up and down on your dick. It was interesting to say the least. I'm not sure I can say it felt better than a regular BJ but it was an interesting visual.Experienced red rope in Shanghai and Beijing. Nowhere else.
Found this video showing how it works:
https://xhamster.com/videos/aerial-rope-girl-spins-and-gives-head-5237053
Thank you for referring this book, Brothel by Alexa Albert, to us.
Albert sees the Mustang Ranch women through the cultural lens that includes the strangeness of prostitutes enjoying sex with clients. Her cultural belief is that it is still novel for women to enjoy sex at all and certainly they cannot enjoy sex with so many guys with whom they have only a casual acquaintance. Despite this flaw in the author's psychology, she does admit that at least 70% of the Mustang hookers orgasm "sometimes" and one orgasms as many as 7 times a day with clients. She notes that the brothel girls do not want to admit sexual enjoyment with clients and mock women who do admit such enjoyment.
Before the 1960's and the American sexual revolution, women rarely admitted enjoying sex and men did not know what a clit was. It was not important for women to enjoy sex though it was clear to me as a child from the sounds emanating from my parents bedroom that Mama was having more fun than Papa. I lived through that era. I remember.
Actually, women can enjoy sex and orgasm much more frequently than men can. They can enjoy with more partners than we can enjoy with. Prostitutes are no different. In fact, they choose their career because their libido and frequency of enjoyment is on the high side.
Thanks again for referring this book. Please enjoy again this video showing hookers having fun.
https://pornzog.com/video/13191912/hookers-in-ecstasy-a-compilation-by-party-manny/I strongly believe that this is a subject that you can't paint with a wide brush. Girls get into prostitution for a wide variety of reasons. Some do it because they're young runaways and drug addicts and need a source of income. Some do it strictly to earn a buck. Some do it at least partially because they immensely enjoy sex, and even more so enjoy getting paid for it. I've seen escorts who claimed to not need the money. They had good jobs during the week but saw 3 or 4 clients on weekends because a) the extra cash was nice. Gave them a little extra discretionary spending money; and b) they enjoyed the sex. I've been with SWs who had unmistakable huge orgasms. You know the orgasms were real because there are just certain things that can't be faked. I've been with others who claimed to orgasm but I saw no discernable evidence of it during the session. I've had others who had "orgasms" that seemed very fake. You can usually pick out the over the top porn flick style moaning and tell that it's fake. Uncontrollable body spasms, sweating, and hip bucking accompanied by moaning and a gush of fluids probably isn't fake. So it very much runs the gamut between spreading their legs just for the money and doing it because they're incredibly horny and like getting laid as much as we do.
As for the high end Nevada brothels, I'm not an expert because I've never visited one, but the 70% figure is probably pretty close to spot on. Some of the girls may very well have high sex drive and cum multiple times a day with multiple clients. Others may be put off by the sex part (but obviously not put off by the money) and never cum at all with clients. And I think those numbers probably fairly readily transfer to AMP girls. There's a couple Chinese I've been with in OC who had very intense orgasms after I spent 15-20 minutes with my head clamped between their thighs. I've had just as many who I've practiced my oral skills on who didn't seem to get turned on by it at all. They stayed dry and pretty much just went through the motions. In fairness, it's hard to expect them to get turned on and have orgasms with every client when their job is to spread their legs for a dozen strangers a day in a dark, cramped, dingy room. It's not so hard seeing a girl orgasm when she sees at most 1 or 2 per day, and those 1 or 2 are ones she hand selects and verifies out of dozens of requests she gets every day.
BSouthgate
06-27-24, 14:40
I strongly believe that this is a subject that you can't paint with a wide brush. Girls get into prostitution for a wide variety of reasons. Some do it because they're young runaways and drug addicts and need a source of income. Some do it strictly to earn a buck. Some do it at least partially because they immensely enjoy sex, and even more so enjoy getting paid for it. I've seen escorts who claimed to not need the money. They had good jobs during the week but saw 3 or 4 clients on weekends because a) the extra cash was nice. Gave them a little extra discretionary spending money; and b) they enjoyed the sex. I've been with SWs who had unmistakable huge orgasms. You know the orgasms were real because there are just certain things that can't be faked. I've been with others who claimed to orgasm but I saw no discernable evidence of it during the session. I've had others who had "orgasms" that seemed very fake. You can usually pick out the over the top porn flick style moaning and tell that it's fake. Uncontrollable body spasms, sweating, and hip bucking accompanied by moaning and a gush of fluids probably isn't fake. So it very much runs the gamut between spreading their legs just for the money and doing it because they're incredibly horny and like getting laid as much as we do.
As for the high end Nevada brothels, I'm not an expert because I've never visited one, but the 70% figure is probably pretty close to spot on. Some of the girls may very well have high sex drive and cum multiple times a day with multiple clients..Your review is right on the mark. My experiences have been similar to yours.
Chinese women in China and those who have recently immigrated are more sexually responsive and enjoy more.
The thing that I learned from this book was not that hookers often enjoy sex. Their enjoyment is repressed by cultural pressures not to enjoy. Very few if any of the Nevada brothel women were recent immigrants from Asia. Their groupthink was to mock and make fun of women who had the courage to admit frequent orgasms with their tricks. Imagine if, on this site, guys were afraid to admit that they enjoyed orgasms with their massage girls. That is the way it still is for many prostitutes.
Liberate.
BSouthgate
06-28-24, 21:35
Up to about 45 years of age, I preferred younger beautiful women to older women who had lost their sparkle. Thia pertained to pros and what I think you call civvies (non pros). I married my first wife when I was in my twenties. She was knockout beautiful. She had the body of a model and the innocent cute face of an actress.
Then as age progressed, I started preferring older more mature women for sex but still liked girlfriends and wives to be at least ten years younger than myself. When I mongered in Gardena and Inglewood in my 60's, I had both young and old masseuses. Gradually, I learned to like the older girls (at least 40) more as lovers. They knew more and were less inhibited.
Now I am ancient. I am near life's end. I don't fight with my pot belly anymore because I know it is useless to fight. I have an ugly pacemaker box sticking through the skin of my chest. My hair is grey and it is no longer easy to get it up. I had taken a vacation from mongering for about five years and only recently have returned to this great hobby. In the past few months, I have tried to young spinners at Right and the grannies in Westminster. I prefer the latter by far.
I would love to read others' views on this topic.
How do you guys enjoy doing that for these girls who are getting pumped unprotected in both holes daily?
Not even talking about the risks of std or sti. But the actual act you're kissing other dudes no matter how well you think they clean.
Big Zhang Mang
06-29-24, 21:14
How do you guys enjoy doing that for these girls who are getting pumped unprotected in both holes daily?
Not even talking about the risks of std or sti. But the actual act you're kissing other dudes no matter how well you think they clean.I frequent a handful of AMP providers. Wherever they get rotated to, I'll go there if it ain't too far. I have them shower and brush their teeth beforehand.
How do you guys enjoy doing that for these girls who are getting pumped unprotected in both holes daily?
Not even talking about the risks of std or sti. But the actual act you're kissing other dudes no matter how well you think they clean.Hit 'them up early! Some of my regulars will come in and let me in early. I'll contact them the night before. They'll know to rooter out that snatch and rush and floss got some DFK an 69. I'll also be freshly showered They'll require the same from me, inspecting the balls, shaft and under the head for lint or smegma.
BSouthgate
06-29-24, 21:36
How do you guys enjoy doing that for these girls who are getting pumped unprotected in both holes daily?
Not even talking about the risks of std or sti. But the actual act you're kissing other dudes no matter how well you think they clean.Today, I ate lunch in a restaurant using a fork that has been used one thousand times in the past month.
How do you guys enjoy doing that for these girls who are getting pumped unprotected in both holes daily?
Not even talking about the risks of std or sti. But the actual act you're kissing other dudes no matter how well you think they clean.I'm responding to you on the Rants thread in order to appease the listmasters.
How do you guys enjoy doing that for these girls who are getting pumped unprotected in both holes daily? Not even talking about the risks of std or sti. But the actual act you're kissing other dudes no matter how well you think they clean.Try your best not to put forth your Victorian constraints here. Just chill and don't proselytize. Let mongers be mongers, and if you, personally, don't wish to enjoy the spectrum of enjoyment at AMPs like Right, Nature and other similar establishments, go elsewhere. You may save a few buckos in the process.
Hygiene varies, but in my three decades of mongering experiences, most AMP girls like to keep themselves clean between play sessions. They gargle, shower, rinse, wipe and use those little squeeze douche devices. But what the heck, even if one or more of them don't have perfect clean-up skills, consider your own daily activities out and about. Whether it's a high-end Laguna oceanfront eatery, or a Mickey D's drive through in GG, do you really think the minimum wagers practice perfect hygiene while dishing you up? And do you wipe down every doorknob you touch in any establishment beforehand? Or any other public venue, from a gym, a park a grocery store, etc. ?
I totally get that some guys get anxious / worried about what bacteria may be lingering on these accommodating AMP lovelies, but please let each monger decide for him (or her) self. No need to raise those questions publicly, In-My-Less-Than-Humble-Opinion. If you are truly worried, as opposed to just being a holier-than-thou monger-basher, just DM the monger directly. Even me. If I know you're legitimately confused and a mongering neophyte (as opposed to a troll or shill), I will respond to you and help guide you along the evil pathways 😊.
DolfString111
06-29-24, 23:45
How do you guys enjoy doing that for these girls who are getting pumped unprotected in both holes daily?
Not even talking about the risks of std or sti. But the actual act you're kissing other dudes no matter how well you think they clean.Yep early nuff sed.
James D 2004
06-30-24, 00:43
Up to about 45 years of age, I preferred younger beautiful women to older women who had lost their sparkle. Thia pertained to pros and what I think you call civvies (non pros). I married my first wife when I was in my twenties. She was knockout beautiful. She had the body of a model and the innocent cute face of an actress.
I would love to read others' views on this topic.I spent my kindergarten in a school where the girls wore sailor uniforms. That was a legendary place and the pre-owned uniforms are still collectibles. I am attracted to tiny or tall girls as long as they have nice legs and are pretty. Maybe I have a pedo tendency. When we were buying a house, the agent couldn't help but bring out the registered sex offender topic. I didn't know what she was talking about. But looking back, when she looked at my Asian wife, at 25, she was afraid that I was a registered sex offender. If she sold a house to me, that would be the end of her career there.
When I started mongering, I looked for model materials. Why not? But then it was disappointments, especially in the US. You are not going to get that for $300 to $400. Paying more didn't get any better. TER is only useful to some extent. I did meet a few cira 2015, the DDG era. No K girls call themselves Drop Dead Gorgeous now. But they all did and some looked the part, tall, young, in good shape, and with breast enhancements superior to US surgeons. They also dolled up pretty well so everybody was pretty. It was totally unlike the situation now. But then those DDGs aren't allowing you to do anything like the MILF / GILFs.
As I grow older, I am clearer about what I want. I want nicer things if I can. I have a finite amount of time left. First, no baby damage. No tired nipples or pancakes. Flat is OK as long as not TS flat. Pretty girls who can wear sailor uniforms well. I'm vulnerable to visual stimulation. So it's easier to go down on young pussy. For the starfish, you can't pretend to be a teen, which has an impenetrable shield. I also developed a foot fetish with my first ATF. I have known her since 19 who is a quarter French, half Chinese, the rest Viet with unbelievable skin. She retired at 23. Older ladies can have nice feet but the odds are decreasing.
So I turned out to be Rob's loyal customer. I knew about HX but never big about it before Rob. I met Jazzy when she first came out. Nice ass but defective natural breasts at the time. When I was done early she put back her clothes on and sat far away to have a conversation giving me no chance to attempt the 2nd pop. I was in heaven when Macey. Lin first came out at 19. Rob had an unlimited supply of these girls. I didn't have a crush on Macey because I met her only once before my economic downturn. I tried to catch up on the lost years before she retired but it wasn't the same.
As for service, DFK is a high priority. It's not intimate without it. I don't really need fancy things, I've experienced them all over the years. I have no bucket lists. I'm good as long as they are open to be fucked in my favorite positions. It's like going to the gym. First, a full erection then a full workout. Covered is fine as long as I come in pussy during intense probing. Oral and CIM aren't that important. That comes back to DFK when I can do it and cum in pussy at the same time.
Maybe I'll change my strategy when I'm not getting what I want. But now I still have to bother to cut my hair often enough to avoid looking like a homeless. Out of the blue, Erica Clapton asked me how is my martial arts training. I had a dad bod and a growing stomach. It dawned on maybe I fucked her quite hard. She had been moaning like she was practicing martial arts. I think it's because she has the right thickness. The thickness of her body between the bed and me while I was flat ironing her. Sometimes I moan myself when it's intense. Also out of the blue, she told me "I'm glad you came. " I don't know why she said that. But it was reassuring because she has the teen body and look that I like. And I kiss her non-stop. Sometimes I feel a bit too much but I can't help it. But she isn't the only one. April also said that to me once. Again I kissed her non-stop because GFE is her talent. Maybe Rob coached them to say that? I don't know how effective is that. I see them anyway.
KylieMaris isn't really my type. I still have her paid album. But then I heard she has inverse nipples. And her breasts look good. She's more model material than the teens. And she's very welcoming from the start. She's pretty despite the blue hair and not dolled up. After a long kiss, I looked at her and felt that I didn't kiss her enough. Then I dive in for the DFK again. She always received it with a smile. When I repeated, I liked her longer legs, she looked at me in a different way. You heard that first time a client, 2nd time a GF, and 3rd time a wife. I think she believes in that somewhat. She knew I paid attention to her ass and showed it off when she was reverse cowgirling me without prompting. It seems she was inviting me to finger her ass or even anal. But I wasn't prepared, not prepared to pay more. I was very happy about her already. What she did wrong was telling me that she would be gone come summer, in a month or two. I hate to gain an ATF and then lose it.
Another well-known one is JesikaRose, young, pretty, and nice body. Again she was very enthusiastic at the 2nd visit, talking about cars, mostly about her new car. Very open to kissing. About the same time, I tried Sabina Valentine a year late because her booker flashed her face pictures, so cute. I still saw her a few times despite no smiling, and no kissing. Because she allowed video. I put up two fixed cameras with portable studio lights and held my phone for close up shots. She was very cooperative holding the camera for me when I needed both hands. On the 3rd visit, she was like a different person. She smiled and danced without prompting. I told her to do a strip tease instead. She started kissing me, told me to fuck harder, and after sex held my arms around her waist in a fetal position. Sadly, I got 3 tickets in a row, one because of them, including an over 100 mph one. I put everything aside to deal with it. Now Sabina becomes Celeste, providing PSE in Koreatown.
Pretty black girls are so hard to find. I picked one up on Hottie Gallery. She has a better body than many strippers. Not small but very maneuverable. Her face isn't a compromise. I actually dig her face as much as her body. But she did everything covered, so no kissing, no BBBJ, no DATY, no DATO. So after I satisfied my black girl craving, I told her I wasn't coming back unless she offered more service. She offered anal that I hadn't thought of. So she became my favorite along with Rob's girls. I would have spent more money on her if she didn't work and live far from me. I had to take the toll road, the 405 express lane, and then the 110 express lane to get to Figueroa or the toll road then the 91 express lane to get to her house.
But as time went on she looked hotter. I could overlook many things. When I took her out I couldn't stop looking at her legs and everything else. She had barely any hair when I first picked her up. When she had money to spare she wore beautiful wigs. Nowadays wigs are more beautiful than real hair, barely noticeable and you can wear it to the shower. Imagine you pick the most sexy wig for your $6000 sex doll. She had lots of tattoos but they faded so I don't see them anymore and lick her except for the several places she doesn't want.
Every time it was a thorough workout, flat ironing her on both sides and both holes. She does shower together as well as on video, or showering on video. She's not on the internet so she doesn't care what I video. I found out that she wasn't allergic to me after all. I can kiss and lick her face, kiss her neck, and anywhere else, just not on the holes. So I figured out that she doesn't want to catch anything or she doesn't want to give me anything. So I tried the dental dam. It's good for DFK too. But it was hilarious when she complained that she couldn't breathe because it was covering her nose. And I could satisfy my craving licking her pussy and her starfish. And she doesn't mind if I poke her holes with finger condoms on. Finger condoms are optional but I prefer that because I can do it harder without the risk of hurting her with my fingernails and I wouldn't want my fingers to smell after deep in her ass.
But they are all rip-offs. Saran wrap is thinner and clear. Simpler still, just grab a thin plastic bag for food and rip out a big piece. It's almost clear but you aren't able to see the difference. It won't stick to itself, easier to carry. If you need finger condoms, just bring some latex gloves, cutting off the fingers or not. Best of all, they don't invite suspicion.
Have you heard something like taking the girl out of the ghetto? She lived in a nice neighborhood but I ended up frequenting the south central neighborhood, nails, eyebrows, clothes, eating. She wouldn't touch any junk food since I met her. Once I asked her to do an outcall in the parking structure in Irvine Spectrum. It was a disaster. She was late, late, late, defeating the purpose of coming to Irvine while I ran errands. When she arrived she texted me e2. We were talking about parking anywhere, the numbered entrances, or the parking structure. I immediately rushed to Entry Point 2 but there was no such thing. I could only find 1 and 3. Then she send me a picture on level 2 of the parking structure. So I drove all over the 2nd level, kept asking her which aisle was she, A,B,C? If she just send me a picture with the alphabet I could have found her. If she got out of the car I could have seen her. But we wasted half an hour. So I had to go without seeing her. Afterward, it dawned on me she told me she was on level 2 aisle E. But nobody says e2. She may be familiar with South Central but not any malls elsewhere. In addition, there's no aisle E in the parking structure, not on level 2. There is aisle E in the other parking lot. But it's not near the freeway. It's next to Target and the signs are different.
SeanKonnery
06-30-24, 09:49
This feels fake to me. Anyone agree?I looked up his posts and they all seem fake. SOmeone even mentioned a while back that it may be someone advertising their own.
Up to about 45 years of age, I preferred younger beautiful women to older women who had lost their sparkle. Thia pertained to pros and what I think you call civvies (non pros). I married my first wife when I was in my twenties. She was knockout beautiful. She had the body of a model and the innocent cute face of an actress.
Then as age progressed, I started preferring older more mature women for sex but still liked girlfriends and wives to be at least ten years younger than myself. When I mongered in Gardena and Inglewood in my 60's, I had both young and old masseuses. Gradually, I learned to like the older girls (at least 40) more as lovers. They knew more and were less inhibited.
Now I am ancient. I am near life's end. I don't fight with my pot belly anymore because I know it is useless to fight. I have an ugly pacemaker box sticking through the skin of my chest. My hair is grey and it is no longer easy to get it up. I had taken a vacation from mongering for about five years and only recently have returned to this great hobby. In the past few months, I have tried to young spinners at Right and the grannies in Westminster. I prefer the latter by far.
I would love to read others' views on this topic.I have mixed feelings about this. I'm in my late 50's. I have a young fetish and have always had a young fetish. There's nothing quite like having a pretty young girl naked in bed next to me. But at the same time, generally in the mongering world, the younger and prettier they are, the more they charge and the worse their service is. So a lot of the time I have to weigh between going for the young hottie who is going to overcharge and probably rush me or cut corners, or someone older and less attractive who's going to be a little more humble and make sure I'm completely satisfied. I can make arguments either way with pros and cons of each, so for me it comes down to what I'm craving at that moment.
Try your best not to put forth your Victorian constraints here. Just chill and don't proselytize. Let mongers be mongers, and if you, personally, don't wish to enjoy the spectrum of enjoyment at AMPs like Right, Nature and other similar establishments, go elsewhere. You may save a few buckos in the process.
Hygiene varies, but in my three decades of mongering experiences, most AMP girls like to keep themselves clean between play sessions. They gargle, shower, rinse, wipe and use those little squeeze douche devices. But what the heck, even if one or more of them don't have perfect clean-up skills, consider your own daily activities out and about. Whether it's a high-end Laguna oceanfront eatery, or a Mickey D's drive through in GG, do you really think the minimum wagers practice perfect hygiene while dishing you up? And do you wipe down every doorknob you touch in any establishment beforehand? Or any other public venue, from a gym, a park a grocery store, etc. ?
I totally get that some guys get anxious / worried about what bacteria may be lingering on these accommodating AMP lovelies, but please let each monger decide for him (or her) self. No need to raise those questions publicly, In-My-Less-Than-Humble-Opinion. If you are truly worried, as opposed to just being a holier-than-thou monger-basher, just DM the monger directly. Even me. If I know you're legitimately confused and a mongering neophyte (as opposed to a troll or shill), I will respond to you and help guide you along the evil pathways 😊.Great response. I haven't done BBCIP providers, but 95% of AMP or AAMP providers have excellent hygiene and easily pass the sniff test with flying scents of womanhood. Most are super diligent about hygiene with their money maker- I have a very good nose. Other great points of all the daily bacteria and pathogens humans ingest on a daily basis- and have for hundreds of thousands of years. The mouth is more evolved to deal with most pathogens than the penis.
I looked up his posts and they all seem fake. SOmeone even mentioned a while back that it may be someone advertising their own.I TOFFT on one of his recommendations. It wasnt bad by any means, but also not as great as he made it out to be. So I'm inclined to not follow his recommendations.
James D 2004
06-30-24, 21:25
STDs are transmitted via connect with infected persons. More sex means higher odds of meeting infected persons. If you have sex with a higher risk person your risk is higher. Rinsing the pussy and the mouth in between sex doesn't prevent transmission.
BSouthgate
06-30-24, 22:37
I spent my kindergarten in a school where the girls wore sailor uniforms. That was a legendary place and the pre-owned uniforms are still collectibles. I am attracted to tiny or tall girls as long as they have nice legs and are pretty. Maybe I have a pedo tendency. When we were buying a house, the agent couldn't help but bring out the registered sex offender topic. I didn't know what she was talking about. But looking back, when she looked at my Asian wife, at 25, she was afraid that I was a registered sex offender. If she sold a house to me, that would be the end of her career there.
When I started mongering, I looked for model materials. Why not? But then it was disappointments, especially in the US. You are not going to get that for $300 to $400. Paying more didn't get any better. TER is only useful to some extent. I did meet a few cira 2015, the DDG era. No K girls call themselves Drop Dead Gorgeous now. But they all did and some looked the part, tall, young, in good shape, and with breast enhancements superior to US surgeons. They also dolled up pretty well so everybody was pretty. It was totally unlike the situation now. But then those DDGs aren't allowing you to do anything like the MILF / GILFs.
As I grow older, I am clearer about what I want. I want nicer things if I can. I have a finite amount of time left. First, no baby damage. No tired nipples or pancakes. Flat is OK as long as not TS flat. Pretty girls who can wear sailor uniforms well. I'm vulnerable to visual stimulation. So it's easier to go down on young pussy. For the starfish, you can't pretend to be a teen, which has an impenetrable shield. I also developed a foot fetish with my first ATF. I have known her since 19 who is a quarter French, half Chinese, the rest Viet with unbelievable skin. She retired at 23. Older ladies can have nice feet but the odds are decreasing..Thanks for sharing James.
Lets say you knew that today you would have sex for the last time in your life. You go to a brothel and there are two women in the lineup.
One is an 19 y / o virgin who is DDG. Her face and body are beyond your wildest imagination.
The other woman is a 45 year old attractive but not DDG woman who you know enjoys providing all the services you wrote as your favorite services.
I would pick the second woman. Which do you pick?
BSouthgate
06-30-24, 22:39
I have mixed feelings about this. I'm in my late 50's. I have a young fetish and have always had a young fetish. There's nothing quite like having a pretty young girl naked in bed next to me. But at the same time, generally in the mongering world, the younger and prettier they are, the more they charge and the worse their service is. So a lot of the time I have to weigh between going for the young hottie who is going to overcharge and probably rush me or cut corners, or someone older and less attractive who's going to be a little more humble and make sure I'm completely satisfied. I can make arguments either way with pros and cons of each, so for me it comes down to what I'm craving at that moment.Great answer, Grimmy.
DarkRoomDaddy
07-01-24, 01:28
Great response. I haven't done BBCIP providers, but 95% of AMP or AAMP providers have excellent hygiene and easily pass the sniff test with flying scents of womanhood. Most are super diligent about hygiene with their money maker- I have a very good nose. Other great points of all the daily bacteria and pathogens humans ingest on a daily basis- and have for hundreds of thousands of years. The mouth is more evolved to deal with most pathogens than the penis.A lot of interesting theories. These could revolutionize Gynecology. With doctors giving woman's hoo-hahs, a simple sniff test.
More seriously, women's pussies have a variety of smells depending on their genetics and the bacteria involved. That's one reason I have been attracted with Asian women because about 90% of the time they small very neutral and fresh. On the other hand Latinas, Indian / Pakistani women, blond white girls, and black girls all have their distinctive smells. In general they are not pretty smells, but when you are a young guy with a dick as hard as steel, the smell of rotten fish is a turn on until you spill your seed, then immediately afterward the stench hits you. Wow really stinky. Famously Napoleon wrote to Josephine and asked her not to bathe for days to build up a healthy flora growing in her tender folds.
DarkRoomDaddy
07-01-24, 01:32
I have mixed feelings about this. I'm in my late 50's. I have a young fetish and have always had a young fetish. There's nothing quite like having a pretty young girl naked in bed next to me. But at the same time, generally in the mongering world, the younger and prettier they are, the more they charge and the worse their service is. So a lot of the time I have to weigh between going for the young hottie who is going to overcharge and probably rush me or cut corners, or someone older and less attractive who's going to be a little more humble and make sure I'm completely satisfied. I can make arguments either way with pros and cons of each, so for me it comes down to what I'm craving at that moment.I guess you could analyze your attraction to young-uns. Is the firm body? The innocence, and lack of being jaded and seeing too many dicks already? Is it the looks? Is it the body style often thin?
There are some spinners who are 40-50 but in dark light and a bit of imagination, you can think of them as being 20. Some girls like Cindy at Bali really look like high school girls even though more like 25.
I think there is a slight thrill of being with a girl who really doesn't know shit, and you are in a position to be her first teacher. But those same girls are probably not going to know what to do at all, and not get off.
As for me, I just don't a really old droopy woman. Same as me is too damn old to pay for!
DarkRoomDaddy
07-01-24, 01:36
This feels fake to me. Anyone agree?Yes. I felt so for a long time.
DarkRoomDaddy
07-01-24, 01:45
Try your best not to put forth your Victorian constraints here. Just chill and don't proselytize. Let mongers be mongers, and if you, personally, don't wish to enjoy the spectrum of enjoyment at AMPs like Right, Nature and other similar establishments, go elsewhere. You may save a few buckos in the process.
Hygiene varies, but in my three decades of mongering experiences, most AMP girls like to keep themselves clean between play sessions. They gargle, shower, rinse, wipe and use those little squeeze douche devices. But what the heck, even if one or more of them don't have perfect clean-up skills, consider your own daily activities out and about. Whether it's a high-end Laguna oceanfront eatery, or a Mickey D's drive through in GG, do you really think the minimum wagers practice perfect hygiene while dishing you up? And do you wipe down every doorknob you touch in any establishment beforehand? Or any other public venue, from a gym, a park a grocery store, etc. ?
I totally get that some guys get anxious / worried about what bacteria may be lingering on these accommodating AMP lovelies, but please let each monger decide for him (or her) self. No need to raise those questions publicly, In-My-Less-Than-Humble-Opinion. If you are truly worried, as opposed to just being a holier-than-thou monger-basher, just DM the monger directly. Even me. If I know you're legitimately confused and a mongering neophyte (as opposed to a troll or shill), I will respond to you and help guide you along the evil pathways 😊.We all have some confusion thinking with our brain on one hand, and dick on the other. We all want the sensations of BB but we read a few articles or had sex education in school years ago. The real question to consider is what is the probability of trouble if you throw caution to the wind. Obviously all these girls are not interchangeable. Your biggest risk is with girls who do it all with everyone. The safer route is to find girls known not to give up for anyone and be HJ only. But get them to give you special goodies that "no one else" gets. That lowers the probability of problems.
BraveNuPengwin
07-01-24, 10:48
Today, I ate lunch in a restaurant using a fork that has been used one thousand times in the past month.I got gonorrhea in my throat few years back from eating seashell, I switched over to only Dato and been good ever since.
Apparently a mouth full of shit is safer than one of spoiled crab. Careful out there gentleman.
I guess you could analyze your attraction to young-uns. Is the firm body? The innocence, and lack of being jaded and seeing too many dicks already? Is it the looks? Is it the body style often thin?
There are some spinners who are 40-50 but in dark light and a bit of imagination, you can think of them as being 20. Some girls like Cindy at Bali really look like high school girls even though more like 25.
I think there is a slight thrill of being with a girl who really doesn't know shit, and you are in a position to be her first teacher. But those same girls are probably not going to know what to do at all, and not get off.
As for me, I just don't a really old droopy woman. Same as me is too damn old to pay for!I've analyzed it to death. I think it's a number of things. When I was a teenager I didn't get a lot of tail. I was just one of those nerdy types who wasn't confident enough in myself to get the hot girls. Even into my mid-20's I didn't get much. It wasn't until I got to be 25+ when I started to realize hey, these girls were all interested in me, I've never once had a girl say no when I asked them out on a date, so I should be getting laid a lot more than I am. I guess you could say I was just a late developer in that arena. So there's a part of me that wants the hot 18 year olds that I didn't get when I was 18. There's also something about the look of a young pristine body that gets me going. I wouldn't go so far as to say I have a pedo fetish, but something about that developing body that hasn't been touched much or at all, showing these girls how much pleasure an older, more experienced guy can deliver as opposed to a nerdy 18 year old who doesn't know how to make a girl cum. But intellectually I have no desire to hang out with girls that age. As much fun as they can be in bed, I'm usually bored with talking to them after about 30 minutes because there's too much generational gap stuff going on. On the flip side, give me a 40 year old spinner. She's going to be more jaded, having been around the block a few times. But if she has taken care of herself she can also have a tight and fairly pristine looking body and can be a lot of fun in the sack, along with providing some nice stimulating conversation. But I don't get the pleasure of doing things to her that have never been done to her before.
At the end of 2023 I took what is now a rare solo trip where I was alone in a hotel room for a couple nights. It's rare for me to travel on business anymore, so when I do I try to take advantage of it. I found an 18 year old escort who was a local college student. That sounds like a pipe dream, but after meeting this girl I have no doubts that she was actually 18 as advertised. She was kind of tomboy-ish. Showed up wearing a T-shirt, jeans, and a varsity jacket and carrying a backpack. She advertised that she was a submissive and very inexperienced. Again, that sounds like ad fodder, but she was either one hell of an actress or she actually was very shy and inexperienced. Short story was it was a very fun session. I don't get many opportunities to get it on with a barely legal 18 year old, but she let me take control, undress her, have her undress me, tell her what to do and when to do it. Would I want that every time I monger? No. Sometimes I just want to lay back and enjoy her doing whatever she does to get me off. It all depends on what's available at the moment and what I'm craving.
BSouthgate
07-01-24, 13:34
We all have some confusion thinking with our brain on one hand, and dick on the other. We all want the sensations of BB but we read a few articles or had sex education in school years ago. The real question to consider is what is the probability of trouble if you throw caution to the wind. Obviously all these girls are not interchangeable. Your biggest risk is with girls who do it all with everyone. The safer route is to find girls known not to give up for anyone and be HJ only. But get them to give you special goodies that "no one else" gets. That lowers the probability of problems.Whenever you have sex, you take risks like that of contracting an STD. With pros, the risk may be higher but the sense of adventure is also greater. I remember reading an article where married men who frequent working women wore heart monitors. Their heart rates were significantly higher when they were fucking the pros than when they were fucking their wives. Think about it. When you look down and see the face of a strange woman passionately sucking your rock hard shaft, isn't that more exciting than when you see the face of your gf or wife? It is for me.
On the risk side, I have contracted STDs twice that I can remember. About 35 years ago, I was with a pagan priestess who ran the sex church of Isis. Some of you old guys may remember that woman. She charged about one hundred dollars for sex in her apartment in Santa Monica. She said it was a way to achieve atonement for your sins. She insisted on no condom. My other STD experience was from a girlfriend in China. This girlfriend was not a pro and told me that she did not have other boyfriends. At the time, I was having sex only with her also without a condom. With both the sex priestess and the supposed faithful gf, I contracted non gonorrheal urethritis that was cured with antibiotics. It was more fun with the priestess but also harder to kick the infection.
I recommend taking a Doxycline before every party with a hooker or any woman you do not know. I also recommend using a condom for vaginal or anal sex. I don't like a condom for oral but if you don't mind covering up for BJ, then do so.
BSouthgate
07-01-24, 13:42
I've analyzed it to death. I think it's a number of things. When I was a teenager I didn't get a lot of tail. I was just one of those nerdy types who wasn't confident enough in myself to get the hot girls. Even into my mid-20's I didn't get much. It wasn't until I got to be 25+ when I started to realize hey, these girls were all interested in me, I've never once had a girl say no when I asked them out on a date, so I should be getting laid a lot more than I am. I guess you could say I was just a late developer in that arena. So there's a part of me that wants the hot 18 year olds that I didn't get when I was 18. There's also something about the look of a young pristine body that gets me going. I wouldn't go so far as to say I have a pedo fetish, but something about that developing body that hasn't been touched much or at all, showing these girls how much pleasure an older, more experienced guy can deliver as opposed to a nerdy 18 year old who doesn't know how to make a girl cum. But intellectually I have no desire to hang out with girls that age. As much fun as they can be in bed, I'm usually bored with talking to them after about 30 minutes because there's too much generational gap stuff going on. On the flip side, give me a 40 year old spinner. She's going to be more jaded, having been around the block a few times. But if she has taken care of herself she can also have a tight and fairly pristine looking body and can be a lot of fun in the sack, along with providing some nice stimulating conversation. But I don't get the pleasure of doing things to her that have never been done to her before.Thanks for sharing this great story about the college student.
I had such an experience with a Guangzhou hooker who said she was 20 years old. Though not a virgin, she looked like a high school girl and, I am sure, she had never given or received oral sex. She was very willing to learn. All through the hour, she had a nervous frightened and bewildered expression. Perhaps because it was her first inter-racial experience or perhaps because of the novelty of a new kind of sex. I like teaching her but I would have preferred a more experienced partner.
Sexaholic777
07-02-24, 02:19
This feels fake to me. Anyone agree?Just because you don't get good service there?
Mai thai spa is fake?
I reviewed right spa and green room and nature spa.
There's another nature spa in wm. Beach and Bolsa.
Just because. You don't get any action? YMMv. U got to pay the minimum. This isn’t Tj
I seen your reviews. Looks fake to me too.
Sexaholic777
07-02-24, 02:31
We all have some confusion thinking with our brain on one hand, and dick on the other. We all want the sensations of BB but we read a few articles or had sex education in school years ago. The real question to consider is what is the probability of trouble if you throw caution to the wind. Obviously all these girls are not interchangeable. Your biggest risk is with girls who do it all with everyone. The safer route is to find girls known not to give up for anyone and be HJ only. But get them to give you special goodies that "no one else" gets. That lowers the probability of problems.No intel. Just rambling about sex Ed. Anyone else think so?
BSouthgate
07-02-24, 10:40
No intel. Just rambling about sex Ed. Anyone else think so?So what is the problem with rambling about sex Ed? We would like to read your rambles, Sexaholic.
Sexaholic777
07-02-24, 13:02
So what is the problem with rambling about sex Ed? We would like to read your rambles, Sexaholic.It wasn't in here at first. Calm down. 5 0.
Weird but Bedpage has been down for a few days. I don't see the FB I badge and all that bullshit that would indicate they got busted (like Backpage back in 2015) My feeling is Bedpage just got taken down by hackers or ransomware. Any thoughts?
Panchito33
07-05-24, 13:07
Dude is posting same reviews on RMs. Posted a review on BLUE and CRYSTAL with the same ID joesmith8899. Reviews are word for word, copy and paste. Here, he posts with TimtheExplorer and TomBrady. Lame. Owner paid review most likely.
After a fantastic encounter with the gorgeous petite spinner Blue at Spa Royal several days back, I wanted to come back again for round two. However, when I arrived, Blue was busy (not surprised at all given how talented she is) so I decided to switch things up. Turned out to be a fantastic decision.
I usually encounter Chinese girls at AMPs, but today was a unique experience. As I entered inside, I was greeted by an exotic beauty named Crystal. She would later tell me that she's half Viet and half French. What a special mix.
BSouthgate
07-05-24, 15:13
Dude is posting same reviews on RMs. Posted a review on BLUE and CRYSTAL with the same ID joesmith8899. Reviews are word for word, copy and paste. Here, he posts with TimtheExplorer and TomBrady. Lame. Owner paid review most likely.
After a fantastic encounter with the gorgeous petite spinner Blue at Spa Royal several days back, I wanted to come back again for round two. However, when I arrived, Blue was busy (not surprised at all given how talented she is) so I decided to switch things up. Turned out to be a fantastic decision.
I usually encounter Chinese girls at AMPs, but today was a unique experience. As I entered inside, I was greeted by an exotic beauty named Crystal. She would later tell me that she's half Viet and half French. What a special mix.If it is true that Timtheexplorer is posting fake reviews, we need more evidence than noting that he posts the same reviews on another site. Is there no Crystal at Royal Spa? Is there no Blue?
Dude is posting same reviews on RMs. Posted a review on BLUE and CRYSTAL with the same ID joesmith8899. Reviews are word for word, copy and paste. Here, he posts with TimtheExplorer and TomBrady. Lame. Owner paid review most likely.
After a fantastic encounter with the gorgeous petite spinner Blue at Spa Royal several days back, I wanted to come back again for round two. However, when I arrived, Blue was busy (not surprised at all given how talented she is) so I decided to switch things up. Turned out to be a fantastic decision.
I usually encounter Chinese girls at AMPs, but today was a unique experience. As I entered inside, I was greeted by an exotic beauty named Crystal. She would later tell me that she's half Viet and half French. What a special mix.I don't think Joesmith on RM is a shill because he reviews a bunch of different spas and I've seen quite a few of the same girls and his description is pretty accurate. However, not sure about the person who reposts on here, though. Probably not Joesmith.
Man o man. Lisa at right spa is a total doll. Good kisser (not great, but really good). Amazing Oral. Thin. Looks like mid thirties (late twenties looks but I know how they function). I couldn't believe she was real. It was like"you're servicing me? Tasty kitty. Just great service all around.
L: 9/10. Thin, nice boobs, nice small ass. Stands at about 5'3". Gorgeous face. If she was slightly younger and had a little more back side I'd say 10/10.
A: 10/10. Was down, agreed to everything. Just great attitude.
S: 10/10. I nearly popped from kissing, BBBJ, bls, Daty, and ultimately finished in ACG. I think I was just crushed by her incredibly hot looks imo that I couldn't keep it together.
E: and / a. Standard pricing. Worth it.
Are: For Sure 10/10.
Hope this helps. Idk what it was about her, but I thought she was drop dead gorgeous.
Samurai 316.Unless something changed recently that ws not announced by others, but if you claim she is down with EVERYTHING, that is a huge claim there bud. She down for greek? She down for BBFS? I had Lisa on multiple occasions, those 2 are part of EVERYTHING, but she was not up for it or was offered with extra donstion either, care to elaborate? You know who from Right spa was down for absolutely everything Yaya was, pretty sure that was known at the end that she was literally down for EVERYTHING.
And not sure what were you trying to spell out with that cap use on single letter there?
Unless something changed recently that ws not announced by others, but if you claim she is down with EVERYTHING, that is a huge claim there bud. She down for greek? She down for BBFS? I had Lisa on multiple occasions, those 2 are part of EVERYTHING, but she was not up for it or was offered with extra donstion either, care to elaborate? You know who from Right spa was down for absolutely everything Yaya was, pretty sure that was known at the end that she was literally down for EVERYTHING.
And not sure what were you trying to spell out with that cap use on single letter there?Let me help you out my guy. Classic LASER rating template:
Looks.
Attitude.
Sex.
Expense.
Repeat.
So you mean I've been getting short changed all this time? Provider- "what do you want?" me- "EVERYTHING". Provider goes to get "supplies" and CFS ensues. I thought EVERYTHING meant I don't want HJ or BJ. I could've been getting greek and BBFS when they agreed to EVERYTHING? I want my money back.
Samurai316
07-06-24, 10:25
Unless something changed recently that ws not announced by others, but if you claim she is down with EVERYTHING, that is a huge claim there bud. She down for greek? She down for BBFS? I had Lisa on multiple occasions, those 2 are part of EVERYTHING, but she was not up for it or was offered with extra donstion either, care to elaborate? You know who from Right spa was down for absolutely everything Yaya was, pretty sure that was known at the end that she was literally down for EVERYTHING.
And not sure what were you trying to spell out with that cap use on single letter there?I did not say "she is down for everything", Bud. You didn't include golden shower in your everything. If that's how my "everything" was interpreted, let me clarify. When I said she agreed to everything, I figured that listing what services were provided right after would entail everything she agreed to.
What can I say? She's service oriented? She's agreeable?
All I can say is that she provided great service. In case I wasn't clear, no Greek, no BBFS, no Golden Shower, nothing extreme.
Sorry that I was excited writing the review. You said you've seen her. I hope you understand where I'm coming from. I also understand that some people could misinterpret what was stated. I'll leave it at that.
Not sure what you mean by the single capital letter. Expense not applicable changed when it posted. E: not applicable bc it's the standard pricing. No discounts, just the same. 5 and 1. 4 charge.
Slammer6008
07-06-24, 11:08
I did not say "she is down for everything", Bud. You didn't include golden shower in your everything. If that's how my "everything" was interpreted, let me clarify. When I said she agreed to everything, I figured that listing what services were provided right after would entail everything she agreed to.
What can I say? She's service oriented? She's agreeable?
All I can say is that she provided great service. In case I wasn't clear, no Greek, no BBFS, no Golden Shower, nothing extreme.
Sorry that I was excited writing the review. You said you've seen her. I hope you understand where I'm coming from. I also understand that some people could misinterpret what was stated. I'll leave it at that..Hey Sam you did great!
Unless something changed recently that ws not announced by others, but if you claim she is down with EVERYTHING, that is a huge claim there bud. She down for greek? She down for BBFS? I had Lisa on multiple occasions, those 2 are part of EVERYTHING, but she was not up for it or was offered with extra donstion either, care to elaborate? You know who from Right spa was down for absolutely everything Yaya was, pretty sure that was known at the end that she was literally down for EVERYTHING.
And not sure what were you trying to spell out with that cap use on single letter there?Who in the fuck are you to tell him what he should or should not post?
This forum is a place for guys to talk about pussy, it's not here for you to review their posts, if you have some stupid shit like this to say in the future then bring it to this thread. It's not just you, I just wasted 20 minutes finding and moving 19 posts from a review thread to this thread.
Let me break it down for those who are intellectually challenged. You read about pussy, you go fuck the pussy, then you write about pussy. On review threads it's all about the pussy.
Don't make me do this again or some of you seniors who are used to being bullies are going to find yourselves back on moderation.
Same thing goes to you guys saying somebody is a shill. Use the report post button so we can check them out, we fucking hate shills as well.
I get so sick of fucking babysitting.
A2
DarkRoomDaddy
07-06-24, 15:22
STDs are transmitted via connect with infected persons. More sex means higher odds of meeting infected persons. If you have sex with a higher risk person your risk is higher. Rinsing the pussy and the mouth in between sex doesn't prevent transmission.Yes. Good post. Actually you can quantify it a bit. If 20% of our lady friends have some extra lifeforms who have colonized their love canals, then every time you go for a BB romp, there is an 80% chance you come home clean. But if you go once a week for three months with some BB fun, your odds of not getting anything are 0. 812 = about 7%. So that means you have a 93% of getting something nasty in that 3 month period. Over a single year, its essentially 100% chance. Some things can be cured with antibiotics, but some things are for life. Maybe better to meet a girl on the beach or in the market for the BB. As Dirty Harry might say "Do you feel lucky today? Well do you punk?
MongerSeeker
07-15-24, 12:55
This is odd you wonder what customers they are hoping for. In TJ there is a lot of Trannies on Primera st. There is a least 10-12 of them. What guy would knowingly pickup a trannie. !!
It's hard to tell if they're the same person. After visiting an nearby AMP last night, I decided to stop by again to do some research. As I was leaving and headed back towards the freeway, I stopped by the 2 blondes standing next to the intersection. They took one look at me and said "You wouldn't want us" in a very deep manly voice. LOL. I got out of there fast.
Encino Chad
07-16-24, 20:59
Yapping alert / disclaimer.
Man, what the hell is up with the rotation of girls in AMPs.
Like, I finally have time to catch up on some recommendations from some mongers on here, then by the time I get to them, the ladies that I want to try out are not there anymore. And a lot of recommendations are from fresh reviews as well from places that haven't been shut down.
This some limited-time only bs loll.
The only thing I could think of is that they're following the cinema / theater model where new releases brings peeps to the theater to buy tickets, in this case, we're buying "tickets" to "see" 304's. Idk, I just think this whole rotation thing is dumb.
Lift Her Up
07-17-24, 12:34
Yes. Good post. Actually you can quantify it a bit. If 20% of our lady friends have some extra lifeforms who have colonized their love canals, then every time you go for a BB romp, there is an 80% chance you come home clean. But if you go once a week for three months with some BB fun, your odds of not getting anything are 0. 812 = about 7%. So that means you have a 93% of getting something nasty in that 3 month period. Over a single year, its essentially 100% chance. Some things can be cured with antibiotics, but some things are for life. Maybe better to meet a girl on the beach or in the market for the BB. As Dirty Harry might say "Do you feel lucky today? Well do you punk?Hooray, there's someone out there who understands joint probability. Too bad the text software deleted the circumflex or maybe the double asterisk between the 8 and the 1, LOL. I would just add that the chance of getting infected from an infected girl is less than 1. For catching HIV through the vagina I've read anywhere from 1/1000 to 1/400 for one fuck. I imagine it's a lot higher for syph or clap but I don't know what it is. Is there a public health expert in our group who can add to this?
Lift Her Up.
Yapping alert / disclaimer.
Man, what the hell is up with the rotation of girls in AMPs.
Like, I finally have time to catch up on some recommendations from some mongers on here, then by the time I get to them, the ladies that I want to try out are not there anymore. And a lot of recommendations are from fresh reviews as well from places that haven't been shut down.
This some limited-time only bs loll.
The only thing I could think of is that they're following the cinema / theater model where new releases brings peeps to the theater to buy tickets, in this case, we're buying "tickets" to "see" 304's. Idk, I just think this whole rotation thing is dumb.Rotating girls can mean one of two things: Either the AMP owner is moving the girls around to keep things "fresh" for the clients, or they're part of a trafficking network and they're shuffling girls around to keep them a couple steps ahead of immigration authorities. Unfortunately the latter does happen. There are discussions touching on that not too many posts down. I generally won't go to shops that constantly shuffle girls for that reason. Whether they're trafficking or not, I don't want to be complicitly supporting a trafficking operation, or even taking a remote risk of doing so. But that's just me.
Back when I used to travel constantly for business, I visited a shop back east somewhere. I think it was in the Pittsburgh area, I don't recall exactly. I was chatting with the girl and she asked if I was a local. I said no, I'm visiting from California. Before she'd give me any extras she said "prove that you're from California. " Apparently there were a lot of stings in the area at that time and she wanted to make sure I wasn't a cop. I showed her my drivers license. At the time I lived in Downey. She gasped and said "Downey?? Did you go to Downey Massage? Most of the girls here used to work there!" They were being shuttled around from town to town, state to state, most likely as part of some underground trafficking network. I saw a room with air mattresses in it on my way out. Very bad sign when the girls are sleeping in the shops.
STDs are transmitted via connect with infected persons. More sex means higher odds of meeting infected persons. If you have sex with a higher risk person your risk is higher. Rinsing the pussy and the mouth in between sex doesn't prevent transmission.Correct. Yes, we are always taking a chance, esp w professionals. There are slight co-factors involved however. If a provider has an odor, something is off in the flora balance, which may lead to other vulnerabilities for both of you. Also, although good thorough hygiene may not prevent STDs de facto, a girl who practices that shows conscientiousness, for one, and also may reduce somewhat the accessible bacterial or viral population, even if temporarily, which may very slightly affect infectiousness (ie principle of minimum effective dose).
But yes, your point is correct, it does not prevent transmission. We are taking a risk. Personally I try to avoid unprotected activity w known BBFS providers, but other brothers have higher risk tolerance. Peace.
Hooray, there's someone out there who understands joint probability. Too bad the text software deleted the circumflex or maybe the double asterisk between the 8 and the 1, LOL. I would just add that the chance of getting infected from an infected girl is less than 1. For catching HIV through the vagina I've read anywhere from 1/1000 to 1/400 for one fuck. I imagine it's a lot higher for syph or clap but I don't know what it is. Is there a public health expert in our group who can add to this?
Lift Her Up.Hi, I can speak to some of this. There have been very many studies so you will see different odds, that's to be expected. I will just cite one meta-study (combining results of many studies) to keep it simple:
https://stanfordhealthcare.org/medical-conditions/sexual-and-reproductive-health/hiv-aids/causes/risk-of-exposure.html
To keep it simple, it's 04% for penis in vagina as the man (1 in 2500), .08% for vagina taking a penis as the woman (1 in 1250), .06% to .62% penis in anus as the fucker (na due to range), 1.4% penis in anus as the fucked (1 in 70). Huge difference. Not to mention the most important point. The chance of getting HIV from having sex with someone who is not infected is exactly 0. Do not forget this obvious fact in your calculations! Most people don't have HIV. So having PIV sex with a random SW is going to be much lower than .04%. Very hard to estimate that especially with kgirls but even if it was 1% then that is going to be 1 in 250,000. Now HIV is much rarer in South Korea, especially among ethnic South Koreans (HIV in SK is disproportionately visiting foreigners), but then these are SWs so it depends on how long and who they fucked and how (and if they used PrEP). The real calculation is simply not possible but it i probably much rarer and scales with how many years they have worked abroad.
Lastly, there has never been a single documented case of HIV transmission through oral sex (BBBJ). Not one. It is possible, and no study can capture something that rare. So it is listed as a "non-zero" chance, meaning it is greater than 0 chance but not statistically significant or measurable. It has to do with HIV being blood transmitted - it cannot be transmitted by saliva. So no bloody bbbjs when you have a wounded dick.
Some girls I know take PrEP. It is really important if they are offering anal, especially if it gets bloody. In any case PrEP can cause nausea so not everyone is going to use it.
Lastly, I will say something a bit controverial, and that is that washing and hygene matters with bacterial stds especially. So I will start by simply pointing out contradictory facts long supported by medical studies. First, medical studies show that women are far more susceptible to bacterial UTI infections than men (both STD and non-STD). The official medical explanation is their urethra is very short, while a man's urethra is very long. That is, it is hard for bacterial to travel the further distance in men and find a better location to colonize. They have to fight gravity and urination, which tends to push the bacteria out (these are the studies' claims, not mine). This is a scientific fact and an official medical explanation. Another scientific fact, circumcized men have less chance of bacterial infections (both STD and non-STD). The official scientific explanation is less bacterial is trapped under foreskin, giving less time and bacterial load to later travel down the urethra and colonize. Notice both of these are hygene facts that are proven in many medical studies. But they will never say that washing is effective, because it would encourage people to believe that washing was an effective way to prevent STDs. Yes we know of course it isn't effective at preventing them entirely, but the point is they help and studies prove hygene is a big factor. I have even seen some sources erroneously claim that it has no effect (note they cannot cite a single study backing this up), as a result of this policy of "don't promote washing". Contrary to all these decades of medical research. Same way they say pulling out isn't effective (it isn't, but it helps). Same way they said N95 masks weren't necessary before they were - they were actually flat out lying when they said that. To sum it up they aren't allowed to say that. But it helps.
Do not believe medical claims not supported by medical studies. I have only used proven facts to make my last statements. That is all.
Rotating girls can mean one of two things: Either the AMP owner is moving the girls around to keep things "fresh" for the clients, or they're part of a trafficking network and they're shuffling girls around to keep them a couple steps ahead of immigration authorities. Unfortunately the latter does happen. There are discussions touching on that not too many posts down. I generally won't go to shops that constantly shuffle girls for that reason. Whether they're trafficking or not, I don't want to be complicitly supporting a trafficking operation, or even taking a remote risk of doing so. But that's just me.
......I saw a room with air mattresses in it on my way out. Very bad sign when the girls are sleeping in the shops.I in no way want to support trafficking. Being forced to do this job, is beyond cruel.
Having said that, I've read in the past, many times about girls living in the shops, and always equated to trafficking. Compare that with say, a KAAMP, when the ladies come go, they bring suitcases to support their stay at the spot. That is the Koreans, and probably any other ethnicity that is using apartments these days.
Here in these pages, we read about once or more StoreFront parlors. Won't mention by name, but they open early enough, and stay late enough. Girls are very enthusiastic, so much so, I think most of us would be surprised if there was anything forced. They also provide 2 or more girls for our pleasure, if so desired and timing is correct.
Pretty sure, they stay in that StoreFront. I know they stayed in the previous locations StoreFront.
So, mattresses or staying in the location, eating or preparing food, that in my opinion isn't the standard to determine if they are trafficked. Given these things seem to happen in the Chinese shops and those shops provide very enthusiastic services, I'm not sure what criteria to use.
I will add, I've asked some of the girls why they do this. Money is a top answer, usually answered in such a way, that to me, it feels like that is their genuine answer. It does seem, they have free time, once they complete their duty tour at any particular shop.
One girl, did answer, she had some kind of breast cancer and she was doing this to get the funds to get the necessary medical attention. That did not leave a good feeling with me, at all. Felt a bit disgusted with what had happened.
Guess, nearly all girls that are trafficked, tend to live at the shops, but one can't not say just because they stay in the shop and eat in the shop, that means they are trafficked, especially when taking into consideration the kgirl situation.
I in no way want to support trafficking. Being forced to do this job, is beyond cruel.The phrase "sex trafficking" is beyond stupid. Let us look at the definition of it:
"The action or practice of illegally transporting people from one country or area to another for the purpose of sexual exploitation. ".
Nothing about consent. If you transport a girl from A to B for prostitution, and it is legal for her to prostitute, it is not sex trafficking. If you do so and it is illegal at one point or the other, it is sex trafficking.
In fact, let's go further with ridiculous examples. Forcing someone to be a prostitute is not sex trafficking. Since there is no transportation. Actual slaves in India and the Middle East sold for sex have not been sex trafficked. Trafficked being the word of course.
A woman who bangs 1000 guys around the world with a pimp is not being sex trafficked, if it is legal in each those countries to have a pimp. If she steps in one where it isn't (the majority), she has just been sex trafficked.
It is a very stupid phrase. It is used by politicians and officials to say they are doing more than they actually are, regardless of their intentions or effectiveness. And used by groups who simply don't like even consensual prostitution. We know since they call women who on their very own travel countries for sex work - but who meet a local handler that tells them what locations will take them - sex trafficking victims.
I know women who work tour multiple countries. They can choose when and where they go in general terms, but they have to make a contact in other countries because otherwise they won't know where it is safe to work. They aren't going to be streetwalkers, they want a safe place to set up. And you know what, they keep the vast majority of their take. They make more than a police chief. So it is ironic.
Notice that with any other kind of work the same trafficking happens. I know friends who went to work in Japan because a headhunter said an IT firm there needed their talent (ChatGPT craze). The headhunter was paid a small bonus, and enticed my friend with the job offer. He was trafficked!
I am against exploitation. That's completely different than a woman making her life savings in a few years. And you know what, the public will still call that woman exploited and sex trafficked no matter how much she makes and how much choice or consent she gives. There are a few girls who bought a house and retired to other work.
No one will question this because this is America. SW is heavily stigmatized here and you can't touch it. In Thailand and Japan if there is full consent then nobody cares, it is just work.
The phrase "sex trafficking" is beyond stupid. Let us look at the definition of it:
"The action or practice of illegally transporting people from one country or area to another for the purpose of sexual exploitation. ".
Nothing about consent. If you transport a girl from A to B for prostitution, and it is legal for her to prostitute, it is not sex trafficking. If you do so and it is illegal at one point or the other, it is sex trafficking.
In fact, let's go further with ridiculous examples. Forcing someone to be a prostitute is not sex trafficking. Since there is no transportation. Actual slaves in India and the Middle East sold for sex have not been sex trafficked. Trafficked being the word of course.
A woman who bangs 1000 guys around the world with a pimp is not being sex trafficked, if it is legal in each those countries to have a pimp. If she steps in one where it isn't (the majority), she has just been sex trafficked.
It is a very stupid phrase. It is used by politicians and officials to say they are doing more than they actually are, regardless of their intentions or effectiveness. And used by groups who simply don't like even consensual prostitution. We know since they call women who on their very own travel countries for sex work - but who meet a local handler that tells them what locations will take them - sex trafficking victims.
I know women who work tour multiple countries. They can choose when and where they go in general terms, but they have to make a contact in other countries because otherwise they won't know where it is safe to work. They aren't going to be streetwalkers, they want a safe place to set up. And you know what, they keep the vast majority of their take. They make more than a police chief. So it is ironic.
Notice that with any other kind of work the same trafficking happens. I know friends who went to work in Japan because a headhunter said an IT firm there needed their talent (ChatGPT craze). The headhunter was paid a small bonus, and enticed my friend with the job offer. He was trafficked!
I am against exploitation. That's completely different than a woman making her life savings in a few years. And you know what, the public will still call that woman exploited and sex trafficked no matter how much she makes and how much choice or consent she gives. There are a few girls who bought a house and retired to other work.
No one will question this because this is America. SW is heavily stigmatized here and you can't touch it. In Thailand and Japan if there is full consent then nobody cares, it is just work.You are correct. Mattresses and cooking food in a shop isn't necessarily an indicator of trafficking (sleeping in the shop is, however, illegal as hell in most jurisdictions). But signs of the girls sleeping in the shops is one indicator that trafficking might be going on.
I should also clarify that most trafficking going on in the US isn't sex trafficking. Restaurant staff, hotel staff, cleaning companies etc. Are all industries where workers are trafficked quite heavily.
With all due respect, I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion of "sex trafficking" being stupid. It does go on. It isn't the case in every AMP by any means, and it isn't the case at a lot of the more prominent AMPs in OC that are discussed on this site, but it does happen and in bigger numbers than most of you realize. There's also the quid pro quos version that I mentioned earlier, and I'll mention again here. Without mentioning names of shops, say the girls from your favorite shop move at the MMS's house and pay her room and board. That's fairly common. Room and board is cheap. Say $500/ month. She shares a bedroom with 3 or 4 other girls. No big deal. It's a hell of a lot cheaper than an apartment. She is free to come and go as she pleases, so she isn't trafficked per se. But in order to get that cheap room and board she had to keep working at that shop. She can quit at any time but the moment she quits she has to move out. Now where does she go? She speaks little English and has no marketable skills to earn a living, and now doesn't have a roof over her head. She's kind of stuck. That's quid pro quo trafficking. Most people wouldn't recognize it as such because she's working there by choice, but the reality is she really has no other choice other than being homeless. And again, it happens not just in the sex trade but in other trades as well.
So trafficking isn't always about sneaking people around in the dead of night. There's other forms of it.
With all due respect, I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion of "sex trafficking" being stupid. It does go on. All I'm saying is police, politicians, and activists will all call most SWs trafficked without considering the individual facts. They broadly equate kidnap victims and slaves with consenting independent sex workers who are offered jobs. They never make that distinction, nor do they even care. That is all I'm saying when I say the definition itself is meaningless.
Here, look at this article. It is 100% typical of EVERY article on the subject:
https://deliverfund.org/blog/facts-about-human-trafficking-in-united-states/
The very first sentence reads: "Human trafficking, also known as modern-day slavery, is alive and well in the United States. Every year, millions of people in the world, including in the USA, are bought and sold for the purposes of forced labor or sexual exploitation. ".
It flat out claims that ALL trafficking is slavery. It flat out claims that ALL trafficking involves women BOUGHT AND SOLD. I hope you get that. They have no idea what they're talking about. They aren't even trying.
......She is free to come and go as she pleases, so she isn't trafficked per se. But in order to get that cheap room and board she had to keep working at that shop. She can quit at any time but the moment she quits she has to move out. Now where does she go? ............. So trafficking isn't always about sneaking people around in the dead of night. There's other forms of it.Grimmy, I always appreciate your posts, reading your post, I got to thinking about another arrangement we had in this country so many years ago during reconstruction sharecropping. - are they slaves? No, there were many white sharecroppers, but many would argue that they were forced into a situation that was technically not slavery, but a different kind of servitude.
Not something new or unique to the south, or more broadly the USA, Serfdom was very common centuries before in Europe, similar deal. , but closer to slavery.
Just a thought.
OrangeGoku
07-17-24, 21:34
Where can I find an Asian girl in LA that just came to USA or needs a green card or papers and is down for a mural situation. I know there has to be be a few I see tons of broke Asian people in LA all the time.
Fell free to dm me.
Where can I find an Asian girl in LA that just came to USA or needs a green card or papers and is down for a mural situation. I know there has to be be a few I see tons of broke Asian people in LA all the time.
Fell free to dm me.The Mexican border is a good place to start. Find out where they're getting processed and released at. Then, keep a look out for the hot ones. And swoop in like an eagle with a suitcase of $$ It probably doesn't even matter if they're already married. Enough $$$ and the husband will agree to the terms.
BSouthgate
07-18-24, 01:19
All I'm saying is police, politicians, and activists will all call most SWs trafficked without considering the individual facts. They broadly equate kidnap victims and slaves with consenting independent sex workers who are offered jobs. They never make that distinction, nor do they even care. That is all I'm saying when I say the definition itself is meaningless.
Here, look at this article. It is 100% typical of EVERY article on the subject:
https://deliverfund.org/blog/facts-about-human-trafficking-in-united-states/
The very first sentence reads: "Human trafficking, also known as modern-day slavery, is alive and well in the United States. Every year, millions of people in the world, including in the USA, are bought and sold for the purposes of forced labor or sexual exploitation. ".
It flat out claims that ALL trafficking is slavery. It flat out claims that ALL trafficking involves women BOUGHT AND SOLD. I hope you get that. They have no idea what they're talking about. They aren't even trying.There is an industry consisting of Police Vice and Trafficking Departments, Politicians, NGOs and government agencies that grows and profits on how well they can convince the public that sex trafficking is a big problem. Yes there is a problem; but it is grossly exaggerated.
Regarding Grimmy's issue with Chinese masseuses sleeping in the store, can we not view this as an extension of the same problem, these same girls faced when they moved from the backwoods rural hills of western China to sleep in a Shanghai sauna? They have just made one more move from Shanghai to Santa Ana. They can and sometimes do go back home.
Grimmy, I always appreciate your posts, reading your post, I got to thinking about another arrangement we had in this country so many years ago during reconstruction sharecropping. - are they slaves? No, there were many white sharecroppers, but many would argue that they were forced into a situation that was technically not slavery, but a different kind of servitude.
Not something new or unique to the south, or more broadly the USA, Serfdom was very common centuries before in Europe, similar deal. , but closer to slavery.
Just a thought.Yep, by today's definition that would be trafficking. What confuses people is that the word trafficking implies moving people around, but most forms of trafficking don't involve moving them at all. I already illustrated the quid pro quo. There also debt bondage which is very common.
Lift Her Up
07-18-24, 13:18
Yep, by today's definition that would be trafficking. What confuses people is that the word trafficking implies moving people around, but most forms of trafficking don't involve moving them at all. I already illustrated the quid pro quo. There also debt bondage which is very common.Indeed.
And, see my post 1067, on 6/19, about various legal definitions.
IMO no matter what the definition, what is morally wrong is for the girl (OK, woman, but I'm an old guy) to find herself stuck in a situation she can't get out of, or to realize she's been deceived. I hope I've never entered the pussy of a girl in that situation.
Lift Her Up.
Indeed.
And, see my post 1067, on 6/19, about various legal definitions.
IMO no matter what the definition, what is morally wrong is for the girl (OK, woman, but I'm an old guy) to find herself stuck in a situation she can't get out of, or to realize she's been deceived. I hope I've never entered the pussy of a girl in that situation.
Lift Her Up.Unfortunately I probably have in my lifetime been serviced by girls who were trafficked. Most of us probably have. I'm just super aware of it now and avoid those situations if even the slightest sign of it potentially going on is there.
SukijoSeiwaka
07-20-24, 06:47
This is odd you wonder what customers they are hoping for. In TJ there is a lot of Trannies on Primera st. There is a least 10-12 of them. What guy would knowingly pickup a trannie. !!I'm an asexual but, I just don't see the point of it. I'm not into plastic surgery but, there are a lot of girls from Latin america or asia that come here with plastic surgery work. From my understanding, a lot of guys who have oicked up transgenders are normally buzzed, drunk, high or very tired. This is what streetwalkers (females) told me in LA.
Lift Her Up
07-20-24, 12:11
I'm just super aware of it now and avoid those situations if even the slightest sign of it potentially going on is there.Thanks for heightening my awareness too. Your name may be Grime, but your contributions are not grime.
Lift Her Up.
BSouthgate
07-20-24, 13:05
I'm an asexual but, I just don't see the point of it. I'm not into plastic surgery but, there are a lot of girls from Latin america or asia that come here with plastic surgery work. From my understanding, a lot of guys who have oicked up transgenders are normally buzzed, drunk, high or very tired. This is what streetwalkers (females) told me in LA.Or they are closet gays.
Many guys, who transition, do so because they are gay, want sex with men and find it more socially acceptable to be thought of as women. Men who like sex with trannies are also gay or bisexual.
SukijoSeiwaka
07-21-24, 02:30
Or they are closet gays.
Many guys, who transition, do so because they are gay, want sex with men and find it more socially acceptable to be thought of as women. Men who like sex with trannies are also gay or bisexual.If the attraction is opposite sex features then, you aren't gay. Sexology, psychology and Neuroscience proved this wrong decades ago. A lot of guys from a sociologically stance are buzzed, tired or high. Most street prostitution is blowjobs so, a transgender who just blows or knows howto conceal their penis can easily hook a lot of Johns.
DarkRoomDaddy
07-21-24, 08:03
Yapping alert / disclaimer.
Man, what the hell is up with the rotation of girls in AMPs.
Like, I finally have time to catch up on some recommendations from some mongers on here, then by the time I get to them, the ladies that I want to try out are not there anymore. And a lot of recommendations are from fresh reviews as well from places that haven't been shut down.
This some limited-time only bs loll.
The only thing I could think of is that they're following the cinema / theater model where new releases brings peeps to the theater to buy tickets, in this case, we're buying "tickets" to "see" 304's. Idk, I just think this whole rotation thing is dumb.There was a newspaper article in OC Register I think with an expose of trafficking. It claimed that Asian girls working MP's in OC had no idea what city they were in, and were moved city to city every few weeks. I have never seen any evidence of that. Most of the shops have regular girls there for years. Universally they have cellphones and will give you their number. If they were in desparate straights you would assume they would seek some assistance or to get word to the authorities to rescue them. But no, they just want you to become a regular customer. In some shops, girls will even meet you outside the shop. I have seen a few who sleep over in the shop, but I believe this is unsupervised, and essentially just saves the girl the need to pay rent, keeping more money in her pocket.
I think the misunderstanding comes from a cultural difference. Many American women speak of any kind of sex with an older man as if its disgusting, and almost a form of sexual abuse if there is a 20 year age gap in a marriage. There is disgust with men's sexual needs and satisfaction, and an anti-male anti-boomer attitude in many quarters. So the idea of a woman doing sex work, and doing her job happily is unimaginable. Most of these Chinese women working the shops do not seem to be nymphomaniacs, they are just women who are ok with the job, and making more money than they ever dreamed possible. There is also some simple-minded racist views of Asian women as weak and compliant. Which comes from people who have not been around Chinese or Korean women much.
Happily we have arrived at a point, where the LE seems to leave us and the girls alone, and we can happily engage in the hobby, and they can make money, and the American ladies can get their $120 massages with their aroma therapy.
There was a newspaper article in OC Register I think with an expose of trafficking. It claimed that Asian girls working MP's in OC had no idea what city they were in, and were moved city to city every few weeks. I have never seen any evidence of that. Most of the shops have regular girls there for years. Universally they have cellphones and will give you their number. If they were in desparate straights you would assume they would seek some assistance or to get word to the authorities to rescue them. But no, they just want you to become a regular customer. In some shops, girls will even meet you outside the shop. I have seen a few who sleep over in the shop, but I believe this is unsupervised, and essentially just saves the girl the need to pay rent, keeping more money in her pocket.
I think the misunderstanding comes from a cultural difference. Many American women speak of any kind of sex with an older man as if its disgusting, and almost a form of sexual abuse if there is a 20 year age gap in a marriage. There is disgust with men's sexual needs and satisfaction, and an anti-male anti-boomer attitude in many quarters. So the idea of a woman doing sex work, and doing her job happily is unimaginable. Most of these Chinese women working the shops do not seem to be nymphomaniacs, they are just women who are ok with the job, and making more money than they ever dreamed possible. There is also some simple-minded racist views of Asian women as weak and compliant. Which comes from people who have not been around Chinese or Korean women much.
Happily we have arrived at a point, where the LE seems to leave us and the girls alone, and we can happily engage in the hobby, and they can make money, and the American ladies can get their $120 massages with their aroma therapy.I've done a little work with Polaris, which is a group that assists trafficked individuals. There absolutely are reports of girls who were forced to work in sex shops and had their docs taken from them and / or weren't in the country legally. The more prominent groups are Latina and Korean. Most of the shops that are discussed in OC are Chinese, and oddly enough the Chinese aren't a prominent group that gets trafficked. Again, shuffling the girls around from city to city or state to state isn't the most common form of trafficking. Debt bondage is the most common. That's where they paid someone to help them get into the US, under the guise of them having "work" once they're in, and having to pay back the debt which is often well north of $50 k. Their docs are confiscated until they're paid off. So now you have this girl in the US either illegally or without access to her docs, speaks little to no English, and owes some handler $50 k. She isn't a prisoner per se. She has some freedom. But she also has nowhere to go. She's afraid to go to the authorities because she may not be here legally. That's far more common than people realize. It's also prominent even more so with hotel and restaurant workers.
Now to clarify, there are some favorite shops in the OC that have some of the signs of trafficking. For example (I won't mention names but most of you will know who I'm referencing) there's a Westminster shop where the girls live with MMS and PPS and work 6 days a week, 12 hrs a day in a storefront with no rooms, just curtains so they have almost zero privacy. On the surface you might call that trafficking since some of the telltale signs are there. However, those girls have been known to go back home to China once in a while. If they were trafficked and here illegally they wouldn't be going home and coming back, so that place is safe.
Plasma Spray
07-21-24, 17:54
This "trafficking" is almost always bindage by debt repayment. Itnis what it is. "willingly" is a relative term.
Much like a lot of guys remaining "married" in a sexless marriage becuase of perceived obligation. To the kids. Or whatever.
James D 2004
07-21-24, 18:04
Yapping alert / disclaimer.
Man, what the hell is up with the rotation of girls in AMPs.
Like, I finally have time to catch up on some recommendations from some mongers on here, then by the time I get to them, the ladies that I want to try out are not there anymore. And a lot of recommendations are from fresh reviews as well from places that haven't been shut down.
This some limited-time only bs loll.
The only thing I could think of is that they're following the cinema / theater model where new releases brings peeps to the theater to buy tickets, in this case, we're buying "tickets" to "see" 304's. Idk, I just think this whole rotation thing is dumb.I couldn't find it to comment. You have to understand that the earth does not rotate around you. The current ways exist for good reasons. This is a free guide so you should be grateful if you can even get something useful out of it.
What AMP? What rotation? How can Taylor make so much money if the Eras Tour doesn't go around the country? If there is no rotation, the bookings for a lady will keep dropping.
BSouthgate
07-22-24, 07:39
If the attraction is opposite sex features then, you aren't gay. Sexology, psychology and Neuroscience proved this wrong decades ago. A lot of guys from a sociologically stance are buzzed, tired or high. Most street prostitution is blowjobs so, a transgender who just blows or knows howto conceal their penis can easily hook a lot of Johns.I think we agree Sukijo.
Trans women, like Dylan Mulvaney, were gay guys before they transitioned. A large proportion reverse transition to again become gay men. Those trannies on Beach Blvd like to suck cock. They are gay men. If you enjoy them sucking your cock, knowing that they are biological men, then you are bi or gay. Is that not true?
Trying to figure out if it's coincidence or me.
I changed mobile providers yesterday, and I'm unable to get onto bedpage. Not sure if it's blocked by the new provider, or by the account by default with the new provider, or might just be that page is coincidentally down just as I switch.
I guess first question, is it really down? Second question would be, how do you address this with the cell company?
Trying to figure out if it's coincidence or me.
I changed mobile providers yesterday, and I'm unable to get onto bedpage. Not sure if it's blocked by the new provider, or by the account by default with the new provider, or might just be that page is coincidentally down just as I switch.
I guess first question, is it really down? Second question would be, how do you address this with the cell company?I check BP almost everyday. Never seen it down before. If you ever want to check if any site is down, just run a ping or check the down or not sites. If you think your ISP is blocking a site, either use a VPN or use a free proxy site. Such as.
https://proxyium.com/
Trying to figure out if it's coincidence or me.
I changed mobile providers yesterday, and I'm unable to get onto bedpage. Not sure if it's blocked by the new provider, or by the account by default with the new provider, or might just be that page is coincidentally down just as I switch.
I guess first question, is it really down? Second question would be, how do you address this with the cell company?Bedpage isn't down. I can get in easily from all devices and networks.
Try accessing via WiFi instead of over the cell network and see if that makes a difference. I've never heard of cell networks blocking sites like that but I guess it's not outside of the realm of possibilities. If you can get in via WiFi then it's something related to the wireless network. If not, then it's something on your device that's preventing it. Maybe try a different browser.
James D 2004
07-24-24, 13:57
Trying to figure out if it's coincidence or me.
I changed mobile providers yesterday, and I'm unable to get onto bedpage. Not sure if it's blocked by the new provider, or by the account by default with the new provider, or might just be that page is coincidentally down just as I switch.
I guess first question, is it really down? Second question would be, how do you address this with the cell company?You can test on downforeveryoneorjustme.com.
Maybe the parental blocking is on. Otherwise it's easier to switch than deal with it.
Trans women, like Dylan Mulvaney, were gay guys before they transitioned. A large proportion reverse transition to again become gay men. Those trannies on Beach Blvd like to suck cock. They are gay men. If you enjoy them sucking your cock, knowing that they are biological men, then you are bi or gay. Is that not true?I'd say if you seek them out thinking that they are men, then yes. If you enjoy getting your cock sucked by someone who looks like a woman, but it turns out they are a man of any degree, then no.
But sexuality is a spectrum, not a lot of people are completely straight or gay based on long-standing studies. In our society there's a lot of stigma so some of the most gay people of all swear up and down they are totally straight. You will never get past that issue here in the US, so any conversation is a non-starter.
Whereas in Thailand there's very little stigma. Ladyboys are common and generally don't consider themselves male or female (there are trans people in Thailand, but they aren't ladyboys). Either you like your dick sucked by them or you don't. No profound questions necessary, obviously you aren't completely straight if you do but neither is almost anybody. It is quite normal for a "straight" woman to find other women attractive, but not enough to want sexual relationships with them. Same for men. There are a lot more 1's and 2's on the Kinsey scale than 0's. Most of the 0's are extremely closeted due to religion. I have a best friend that to this day is a 6 who pretends to be a 0 because of religion, he won't leave it.
Trying to figure out if it's coincidence or me.
I changed mobile providers yesterday, and I'm unable to get onto bedpage. Not sure if it's blocked by the new provider, or by the account by default with the new provider, or might just be that page is coincidentally down just as I switch.
I guess first question, is it really down? Second question would be, how do you address this with the cell company?Like Grimmy said, using WiFi should use the rules of the WiFi provider instead of the cell provider. If that doesn't work try using a free VPN just to check if something is filtering web IP addresses. If that doesn't work look up changing your DNS on your phone and use a public DNS.
Like Grimmy said, using WiFi should use the rules of the WiFi provider instead of the cell provider. If that doesn't work try using a free VPN just to check if something is filtering web IP addresses. If that doesn't work look up changing your DNS on your phone and use a public DNS.It's also possible (just trying to exhaust everything because I don't know how techie you are) that you are trying to connect to the site while you're also connected to the WiFi network of wherever you are. Disable the WiFi and try connecting through the cell network. I think it is extremely unlikely that the cell network is keeping you out. Cell networks allow you to log into porn sites, escort sites, and all kinds of stuff, so there's no reason they'd try to keep you off of bedpage.
BSouthgate
07-24-24, 23:40
I'd say if you seek them out thinking that they are men, then yes. If you enjoy getting your cock sucked by someone who looks like a woman, but it turns out they are a man of any degree, then no.
But sexuality is a spectrum, not a lot of people are completely straight or gay based on long-standing studies. In our society there's a lot of stigma so some of the most gay people of all swear up and down they are totally straight. You will never get past that issue here in the US, so any conversation is a non-starter.
Whereas in Thailand there's very little stigma. Ladyboys are common and generally don't consider themselves male or female (there are trans people in Thailand, but they aren't ladyboys). Either you like your dick sucked by them or you don't. No profound questions necessary, obviously you aren't completely straight if you do but neither is almost anybody. It is quite normal for a "straight" woman to find other women attractive, but not enough to want sexual relationships with them. Same for men. There are a lot more 1's and 2's on the Kinsey scale than 0's. Most of the 0's are extremely closeted due to religion. I have a best friend that to this day is a 6 who pretends to be a 0 because of religion, he won't leave it.I agree with Wally on this. Good discussion.
Trying to figure out if it's coincidence or me.
I changed mobile providers yesterday, and I'm unable to get onto bedpage. Not sure if it's blocked by the new provider, or by the account by default with the new provider, or might just be that page is coincidentally down just as I switch.
I guess first question, is it really down? Second question would be, how do you address this with the cell company?If you're using an iPhone, check this post:
http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?3578-General-Reports&p=6937336&viewfull=1#post6937336.
DarkRoomDaddy
07-28-24, 00:19
Trying to figure out if it's coincidence or me.
I changed mobile providers yesterday, and I'm unable to get onto bedpage. Not sure if it's blocked by the new provider, or by the account by default with the new provider, or might just be that page is coincidentally down just as I switch.
I guess first question, is it really down? Second question would be, how do you address this with the cell company?Did you try purging all your cookies and history? Sometimes a browser will remember a page and its subpage. So if something changed on their end, your browser might be trying to go to a dead page. Or try a different browswer or different computer. Also, some public places have wifi, and there are sites which are black listed from use. Which is a good idea so a bunch of high school kids go to the public library to watch porn online.
Encino Chad
07-28-24, 01:49
I've seen many SWs in my first year of mongering so far, and I just realized that I haven't seen a single American provider: thinking_emoji:.
I mainly been seeing latinas and sometimes asians.
The thing is. . . I feel like I'm not missing out on much loll.
But a thick curvy white MILF is definitely on my wishlist.
Side note:
I wish more MPs and even escorts have 45 min sessions as a provided service.
30 min can be too fast, and 1 hour can be a bit too long for me sometimes.
But 45 minutes is that sweet spot for me. Angela Spa in Santa Ana has 45 min sessions, and shit was so clutch.
Trying to figure out if it's coincidence or me.
I changed mobile providers yesterday, and I'm unable to get onto bedpage. Not sure if it's blocked by the new provider, or by the account by default with the new provider, or might just be that page is coincidentally down just as I switch.
I guess first question, is it really down? Second question would be, how do you address this with the cell company?I'm sure you have found, the sites in question are not down. Lots of good troubleshooting advise already given, so hopefully you've tried those.
I would try side by side, your cell phone and another device. That will tell you, that in fact you can reach site a / b or if its your phone / provider.
As others have said, isolate the issue. Is it your phone or your mobile service provider. You can turn on wifi, turn off cell service, etc.
If you find its the device, then you'll need to work thru the settings. If the issue seems to be the carrier, I don't think you stand a chance of getting it corrected. IF it is the carrier, they've blocked it for whatever reason they have. Getting that issue communicated, well that might be humbling as well.
True story, a friend worked for a wireless carrier in IT. Their IT department had issues with devices connecting from their own carriers wireless network, Some required ports for the application were blocked, where any other carrier was not blocked. Totally common app. The internal IT team tried to reach out to the wireless team that would be responsible. Not sure they ever got to the correct team.
Lift Her Up
07-30-24, 18:30
I think the misunderstanding comes from a cultural difference. Many American women speak of any kind of sex with an older man as if its disgusting, and almost a form of sexual abuse if there is a 20 year age gap in a marriage. There is disgust with men's sexual needs and satisfaction, and an anti-male anti-boomer attitude in many quarters. So the idea of a woman doing sex work, and doing her job happily is unimaginable. Most of these Chinese women working the shops do not seem to be nymphomaniacs, they are just women who are ok with the job, and making more money than they ever dreamed possible. There is also some simple-minded racist views of Asian women as weak and compliant. Which comes from people who have not been around Chinese or Korean women much.I got to know several hundred young Asian women in my professional life and I absolutely agree, not weak or compliant. You have to look below the surface-level Confucious proper etiquette.
And then, to build on the first part of Dark's paragraph, I think another cultural difference is the acceptance of men's sex drive. In China, women think that's just how men are, accept them for what they are. In the US, if you want more sex than your White wife wants, well, that just proves how bad you are, thoughtless, selfish. Also, in the US it seems like a lot of White women look down on other women who really enjoy sex, and that's an inhibiting influence. Just my 2 c worth, could be wrong.
Lift Her Up.
Lift Her Up
07-30-24, 18:34
I got to know several hundred young Asian women in my professional life and I absolutely agree, not weak or compliant. You have to look below the surface-level Confucious proper etiquette.
And then, to build on the first part of Dark's paragraph, I think another cultural difference is the acceptance of men's sex drive. In China, women think that's just how men are, accept them for what they are. In the US, if you want more sex than your White wife wants, well, that just proves how bad you are, thoughtless, selfish. Also, in the US it seems like a lot of White women look down on other women who really enjoy sex, and that's an inhibiting influence. Just my 2 c worth, could be wrong.
Lift Her Up.I tried to add a note of informality by writing as one word "g o t t a," but the site rewrote that as "got to," and somehow that didn't seem right, so I gave up and wrote "have to". Also just now I see it won't let me but the period inside the quotes. Jes' sayin'.
Otherwise this site is wonderful.
Lift Her Up.
I've seen many SWs in my first year of mongering so far, and I just realized that I haven't seen a single American provider: thinking_emoji:.
I mainly been seeing latinas and sometimes asians.
The thing is. . . I feel like I'm not missing out on much loll.
But a thick curvy white MILF is definitely on my wishlist.
Side note:
I wish more MPs and even escorts have 45 min sessions as a provided service.
30 min can be too fast, and 1 hour can be a bit too long for me sometimes.
But 45 minutes is that sweet spot for me. Angela Spa in Santa Ana has 45 min sessions, and shit was so clutch.When you say "American" are you referring to those who are American citizens, or are you referring to something else? If the former, how do you know the Latinas and Asians you've seen weren't American citizens?
Encino Chad
07-31-24, 01:25
When you say "American" are you referring to those who are American citizens, or are you referring to something else? If the former, how do you know the Latinas and Asians you've seen weren't American citizens?American provider = provider that grew up here in the states.
The providers I've seen all told me that they're from other countries, they also knew little to no English.
I have to break out my Spanish for most of my visits.
DarkRoomDaddy
07-31-24, 14:48
I got to know several hundred young Asian women in my professional life and I absolutely agree, not weak or compliant. You have to look below the surface-level Confucious proper etiquette.
And then, to build on the first part of Dark's paragraph, I think another cultural difference is the acceptance of men's sex drive. In China, women think that's just how men are, accept them for what they are. In the US, if you want more sex than your White wife wants, well, that just proves how bad you are, thoughtless, selfish. Also, in the US it seems like a lot of White women look down on other women who really enjoy sex, and that's an inhibiting influence. Just my 2 c worth, could be wrong.
Lift Her Up.I was in Japan in a convenience store and my American friend was showing me some anime that was fairly x-rated. At that point, a Japanese guy came in to look for a magazine, and I felt a little embarrassed that we were looking at soft-porn, but my friend said "hey in Asia there is no shame about this". And it then became clear why so many American guys end up in Asia but relatively few American women. On the other hand, places like Paris or Italy, you see American women or older people, but not single guys hanging out and teaching English.
Taking even a broader perspective even of Western culture going back to kings and emperors going back 2000 years, its clear that even married men have an appetite for some side honey. Its natural, and going back to cave man days, then men who loved'them-and-leaved'them had more offspring than stodgy guys who stayed with one woman. Of course it was better for the woman to have a big guy protect her and the kids, and to bring home a mastodon steak every once in a while. This is one theory as to why, we as dudes are horny 365 days a year, but most other animals are only horny when they encounter a female in heat. If a woman can dangle some tuna and keep us interested all year, we are better providers and will keep coming back for more. Or in our parlance, we become "regulars".
BSouthgate
08-01-24, 11:46
I was in Japan in a convenience store and my American friend was showing me some anime that was fairly x-rated. At that point, a Japanese guy came in to look for a magazine, and I felt a little embarrassed that we were looking at soft-porn, but my friend said "hey in Asia there is no shame about this". And it then became clear why so many American guys end up in Asia but relatively few American women. On the other hand, places like Paris or Italy, you see American women or older people, but not single guys hanging out and teaching English.
Taking even a broader perspective even of Western culture going back to kings and emperors going back 2000 years, its clear that even married men have an appetite for some side honey. Its natural, and going back to cave man days, then men who loved'them-and-leaved'them had more offspring than stodgy guys who stayed with one woman. Of course it was better for the woman to have a big guy protect her and the kids, and to bring home a mastodon steak every once in a while. This is one theory as to why, we as dudes are horny 365 days a year, but most other animals are only horny when they encounter a female in heat. If a woman can dangle some tuna and keep us interested all year, we are better providers and will keep coming back for more. Or in our parlance, we become "regulars".I lived for years in big cities and small, in China. I knew thousands of women, fucked hundreds, and married one.
Chinese women have a shell of Confucian conformity around them. On the outside, you see a songbird. If you can break through the shell, you find a tigress.
For example, I dated a woman about 15 years younger than me. When I met her, a mutual attraction was evident. She introduced her father, who was in his 80's. The old man impressed me with stories of the long March, his meeting with Mao, and the Western author CP Snow. My interest in Daddy aroused intense jealousy in the daughter with whom I had not yet had sex. She took me to her small room in the family apartment.
"Can I get you to like me as much as you like my father". She opened my fly, pulled my flaccid penis out of the opening in my boxers, and started to lick and suck the tip sensually. The shell was broken.
I had similar dating experiences with other women. All equally horny and all expecting horniness from me. When I was horny, and they were not, they always worshiped and satisfied my bodily excitement.
I have more stories if you want to hear.
I was in Japan in a convenience store and my American friend was showing me some anime that was fairly x-rated. At that point, a Japanese guy came in to look for a magazine, and I felt a little embarrassed that we were looking at soft-porn, but my friend said "hey in Asia there is no shame about this". And it then became clear why so many American guys end up in Asia but relatively few American women. On the other hand, places like Paris or Italy, you see American women or older people, but not single guys hanging out and teaching English.
Taking even a broader perspective even of Western culture going back to kings and emperors going back 2000 years, its clear that even married men have an appetite for some side honey. Its natural, and going back to cave man days, then men who loved'them-and-leaved'them had more offspring than stodgy guys who stayed with one woman. Of course it was better for the woman to have a big guy protect her and the kids, and to bring home a mastodon steak every once in a while. This is one theory as to why, we as dudes are horny 365 days a year, but most other animals are only horny when they encounter a female in heat. If a woman can dangle some tuna and keep us interested all year, we are better providers and will keep coming back for more. Or in our parlance, we become "regulars".I honestly believe that we aren't meant to be monogamous. At least men aren't. Women maybe, but men are hardwired to be horny and to be attracted to certain physical attributes in women. Culturally most of us want to be monogamous. I have a great marriage and family life and wouldn't want it any other way. But at the same time, sex in a monogamous life gets pretty boring, and that's why the world invented things like prostitution and swinging. I have long held the belief that my mongering over the years has kept my marriage and family life healthy. I do feel guilty about it sometimes (or often actually). If my SO ever found out it would be absolutely devastating for her, and that alone bothers me. But at the same time it is fully transactional. I don't have any emotional attachment to anybody I've ever mongered with. I show up, do the deed, pay my money, and leave. Up until fairly recently almost all of my mongering was overseas, so I never saw anybody more than once. This building up relationships to get better service thing that is prominent around here now is a new thing to me, and I'm hesitant to go there because after seeing a girl more than once or twice I start to feel a little bit attached. So there's a very fine line to walk there. One between building up just enough trust to get good service and being "too attached" or looking forward to seeing that person a little too much.
BSouthgate
08-01-24, 22:43
I honestly believe that we aren't meant to be monogamous. At least men aren't. Women maybe, but men are hardwired to be horny and to be attracted to certain physical attributes in women. Culturally most of us want to be monogamous. I have a great marriage and family life and wouldn't want it any other way. But at the same time, sex in a monogamous life gets pretty boring, and that's why the world invented things like prostitution and swinging. I have long held the belief that my mongering over the years has kept my marriage and family life healthy. I do feel guilty about it sometimes (or often actually). If my SO ever found out it would be absolutely devastating for her, and that alone bothers me. But at the same time it is fully transactional. I don't have any emotional attachment to anybody I've ever mongered with. I show up, do the deed, pay my money, and leave. Up until fairly recently almost all of my mongering was overseas, so I never saw anybody more than once. This building up relationships to get better service thing that is prominent around here now is a new thing to me, and I'm hesitant to go there because after seeing a girl more than once or twice I start to feel a little bit attached. So there's a very fine line to walk there. One between building up just enough trust to get good service and being "too attached" or looking forward to seeing that person a little too much.I totally agree with you, Grimmy. I suspect that women are also biologically polyamorous.
DarkRoomDaddy
08-02-24, 00:29
I honestly believe that we aren't meant to be monogamous. At least men aren't. Women maybe, but men are hardwired to be horny and to be attracted to certain physical attributes in women. Culturally most of us want to be monogamous. I have a great marriage and family life and wouldn't want it any other way. But at the same time, sex in a monogamous life gets pretty boring, and that's why the world invented things like prostitution and swinging. I have long held the belief that my mongering over the years has kept my marriage and family life healthy. I do feel guilty about it sometimes (or often actually). If my SO ever found out it would be absolutely devastating for her, and that alone bothers me. But at the same time it is fully transactional. I don't have any emotional attachment to anybody I've ever mongered with. I show up, do the deed, pay my money, and leave. Up until fairly recently almost all of my mongering was overseas, so I never saw anybody more than once. This building up relationships to get better service thing that is prominent around here now is a new thing to me, and I'm hesitant to go there because after seeing a girl more than once or twice I start to feel a little bit attached. So there's a very fine line to walk there. One between building up just enough trust to get good service and being "too attached" or looking forward to seeing that person a little too much.I bet some guys start feeling the "7 year itch", or have a "mid-life crisis" or whatever. The idea of having boring sex with the same woman who is involved in all kinds of non-sexual business with you all day. Then it gradually comes to your mind how hot it would be to have some wild sex with a new woman. What an adventure! It would make you feel 10 years younger and remind you of how you used to be in your single days. So you meet someone, and end up in a love affair, and maybe end up in a divorce.
So mongering takes the pressure off. Its a safety value so the pressure does not build up to an explosion. Its never as satisfying as being with a woman who is with you just because she likes you, but its a decent approximation. And when the hour is up, you leave with a spring in your step, and feel great. And then everything else is a little easier to take. You might even appreciate being with a woman who cares about you more than she cares about what tip you will be handing over.
So mongering probably does save many marriages.
I honestly believe that we aren't meant to be monogamous. At least men aren't. Women maybe, but men are hardwired to be horny and to be attracted to certain physical attributes in women. Culturally most of us want to be monogamous. I have a great marriage and family life and wouldn't want it any other way. But at the same time, sex in a monogamous life gets pretty boring, and that's why the world invented things like prostitution and swinging. I have long held the belief that my mongering over the years has kept my marriage and family life healthy. I do feel guilty about it sometimes (or often actually). If my SO ever found out it would be absolutely devastating for her, and that alone bothers me. But at the same time it is fully transactional. I don't have any emotional attachment to anybody I've ever mongered with. I show up, do the deed, pay my money, and leave. Up until fairly recently almost all of my mongering was overseas, so I never saw anybody more than once. This building up relationships to get better service thing that is prominent around here now is a new thing to me, and I'm hesitant to go there because after seeing a girl more than once or twice I start to feel a little bit attached. So there's a very fine line to walk there. One between building up just enough trust to get good service and being "too attached" or looking forward to seeing that person a little too much.In my humble opinion, Men aren't meant to be monogamous. There's 7 billion people in the world. It wouldn't happen if everyone was monogamous. Also Men and Women cheat differently. Women cheat emotionally and bond differently when they have sex. When women have sex, they pair bond with that person. Their biology works differently than men.
Men can have sex with no emotional attachment. Men cheat by providing for that other person such as buying houses or providing for that person.
Depending on your SO, it might be better for you to come up with an agreement between the both of you where you can have sex with multiple people. Just don't embarrass her and don't bring any outside babies or diseases.
Just food for thought.
BSouthgate
08-02-24, 23:46
In my humble opinion, Men aren't meant to be monogamous. There's 7 billion people in the world. It wouldn't happen if everyone was monogamous. Also Men and Women cheat differently. Women cheat emotionally and bond differently when they have sex. When women have sex, they pair bond with that person. Their biology works differently than men.
Men can have sex with no emotional attachment. Men cheat by providing for that other person such as buying houses or providing for that person.
Depending on your SO, it might be better for you to come up with an agreement between the both of you where you can have sex with multiple people. Just don't embarrass her and don't bring any outside babies or diseases.
Just food for thought.Men and women are not so biologically different. The difference is cultural. Women cheat differently because of cultural mores and expectations, not because of any biological difference. Read the book "Sex at Dawn" by Ryan https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sex+at+dawn&crid=3 JJFHA0652 ZCZ&sprefix=sex+at+dawn%2 Caps%2 C162&ref=nb_sb_noss_2.
I married my first wife when I was about 25 years old because she was very sexual, and very culturally uninhibited. We fucked five times a day on weekends and twice every weekday night. But such a sexual woman cannot fuck with just one guy. Her first cheating was with a guy in her university chemistry course. She told me how being near him made her pussy drip so much that her jeans were soaked. Then there was the gas station attendant and the lawyer and the travelling European student she met in a bar. I was immature and could not put up with the cheating and my jealousy. Funny thing was that she was the only woman I was ever faithful with. I have not heard from her in 55 years. I bet she chalked up at least as many lovers as I did in my life.
DarkRoomDaddy
08-07-24, 00:09
Men and women are not so biologically different. The difference is cultural. Women cheat differently because of cultural mores and expectations, not because of any biological difference. Read the book "Sex at Dawn" by Ryan https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sex+at+dawn&crid=3 JJFHA0652 ZCZ&sprefix=sex+at+dawn%2 Caps%2 C162&ref=nb_sb_noss_2.
I married my first wife when I was about 25 years old because she was very sexual, and very culturally uninhibited. We fucked five times a day on weekends and twice every weekday night. But such a sexual woman cannot fuck with just one guy. Her first cheating was with a guy in her university chemistry course. She told me how being near him made her pussy drip so much that her jeans were soaked. Then there was the gas station attendant and the lawyer and the travelling European student she met in a bar. I was immature and could not put up with the cheating and my jealousy. Funny thing was that she was the only woman I was ever faithful with. I have not heard from her in 55 years. I bet she chalked up at least as many lovers as I did in my life.Dogs and cats are different because they are trained differently too. Without these cultural expectations, dogs would meow, and cats would bark. .
The thing with women is that they are more variable than men. As dudes, we behave more or less the same, and we want the same things more or less. And our DNA shows this. But women are more all over the place. There are some like the case you mention. There are also women who can go years without sex and not miss it. There are women who would prefer a good clothed cuddle to penetration. How many guys would be happy to without sex, after some cuddling and kissing, and you have rock hard wood poking a hole in your pants?
All mammals have gender differentiation. Almost all males want to sew their wild oats, then take off and find more females to impregnate. Women / females either don't want males around at all (who might eat her babies) or need their protection and help I child raising.
Lift Her Up
08-07-24, 00:57
This is in response to a recent post in the MP thread about how much we're spending. I think it's better to continue it here.
For years I went for FS twice a month. Last year I had tighten the belt somewhat and I cut back to once a month, FS. Now I'm loosening up a little and go twice a month sometimes. My appetite for FS ideally is once every week or two. The cost of a session for me is usually $. 6, because I'm a regular with someone who asks just $. 2 extra donation.
Most of you guys probably need it more often. I'm in my late 70's now. When I was in my 20's and 30's I had to do it, with partner or alone, 10 times per week. This was the result of an early puberty. Kinsey BTW found that those of us with early puberties had to do it more often.
Lift Her Up.
BSouthgate
08-07-24, 02:44
This is in response to a recent post in the MP thread about how much we're spending. I think it's better to continue it here.
For years I went for FS twice a month. Last year I had tighten the belt somewhat and I cut back to once a month, FS. Now I'm loosening up a little and go twice a month sometimes. My appetite for FS ideally is once every week or two. The cost of a session for me is usually $. 6, because I'm a regular with someone who asks just $. 2 extra donation.
Most of you guys probably need it more often. I'm in my late 70's now. When I was in my 20's and 30's I had to do it, with partner or alone, 10 times per week. This was the result of an early puberty. Kinsey BTW found that those of us with early puberties had to do it more often.
Lift Her Up.I am pretty close to LHU. When I was in my 20's, I could have sex five times in a day and kind of needed sex at least three or four times a week. Now 80. I can still fuck twice a week but can also control the urge much better. Due to financial restrictions, once a month is fine. I love reading the reports on this site and the opinions of other brothers. Thank you all for contributing.
BS.
This is in response to a recent post in the MP thread about how much we're spending. I think it's better to continue it here.
For years I went for FS twice a month. Last year I had tighten the belt somewhat and I cut back to once a month, FS. Now I'm loosening up a little and go twice a month sometimes. My appetite for FS ideally is once every week or two. The cost of a session for me is usually $. 6, because I'm a regular with someone who asks just $. 2 extra donation.
Most of you guys probably need it more often. I'm in my late 70's now. When I was in my 20's and 30's I had to do it, with partner or alone, 10 times per week. This was the result of an early puberty. Kinsey BTW found that those of us with early puberties had to do it more often..I'm still relatively young compared to you, with no kids or wife. Paid off my mortgage, recently sold one of my businesses, and have some good stable passive income from various investments and other businesses. So, it gives me a decent budget to spend every month. I average about 3-4 per week, or about 15 visits per month. Not all are spa visits. It's a mix between spas, house spas (C-Orgs), and escorts. I found that sometimes I would get bored with spas with mostly Chinese girls, so I tried to mix it up a bit with Latinas and Caucasians.
BSouthgate
08-08-24, 01:45
Dogs and cats are different because they are trained differently too. Without these cultural expectations, dogs would meow, and cats would bark. .
The thing with women is that they are more variable than men. As dudes, we behave more or less the same, and we want the same things more or less. And our DNA shows this. But women are more all over the place. There are some like the case you mention. There are also women who can go years without sex and not miss it. There are women who would prefer a good clothed cuddle to penetration. How many guys would be happy to without sex, after some cuddling and kissing, and you have rock hard wood poking a hole in your pants?
All mammals have gender differentiation. Almost all males want to sew their wild oats, then take off and find more females to impregnate. Women / females either don't want males around at all (who might eat her babies) or need their protection and help I child raising.Totally agree with you DRD. Women's libido is more variable than men's. Some never want sex. Some like it several times a day. However, there is also significant variability in men's sex drive.
I postulate that most hookers come from the latter type of woman and most johns are also those with the higher sex drive.
Years ago, I was with an escort who told me that she got into the business after her divorce. With her x, she was fucking almost every night. After he left her, she needed two things, an income source and an opportunity to satisfy her hypersexuality. She found the solution in hooking.
Encino Chad
08-08-24, 12:58
I stumbled upon the instagram profile of a mamasan who's location I used to frequent.
God damn, these folks are living large.
Uppity hotels, luxury items, fashion events, fancy upscale dinners, etc. Etc.
Almost makes me want to become a papasan and assemble an all-star crew. Loll.
I wonder if her family knows how she gets her money.
Totally agree with you DRD. Women's libido is more variable than men's. Some never want sex. Some like it several times a day. However, there is also significant variability in men's sex drive.
I postulate that most hookers come from the latter type of woman and most johns are also those with the higher sex drive.
Years ago, I was with an escort who told me that she got into the business after her divorce. With her x, she was fucking almost every night. After he left her, she needed two things, an income source and an opportunity to satisfy her hypersexuality. She found the solution in hooking.I think that with prostitutes you get the whole spectrum. Some just need the money so badly that they'll do anything for it (and unfortunately, for some of them it's to support an unsavory habit). Some like they money they make for it and don't mind opening up their legs for multiple guys a day. They don't necessarily enjoy the sex but it's what they do for a living and they accept it. They culturally don't see it as an immoral profession, and that's fine. Some actually like the sex, some a lot more than others. But here's the thing. Even if you're a woman and you love sex and have a high sex drive, think about the prospect of a dozen random guys showing up to bang you every day. You probably don't enjoy sex with all of them. Some of them probably flat out disgust you, but your job is to open your legs for them and pretend that you enjoy the sex so you hold your nose and do it. I think it's misguided to believe that every sex worker we see is going to enjoy having sex with us every time we see them. On the other hand, some of them might be absolutely insatiable, but those are likely in the extreme minority.
BSouthgate
08-09-24, 02:16
I think that with prostitutes you get the whole spectrum. Some just need the money so badly that they'll do anything for it (and unfortunately, for some of them it's to support an unsavory habit). Some like they money they make for it and don't mind opening up their legs for multiple guys a day. They don't necessarily enjoy the sex but it's what they do for a living and they accept it. They culturally don't see it as an immoral profession, and that's fine. Some actually like the sex, some a lot more than others. But here's the thing. Even if you're a woman and you love sex and have a high sex drive, think about the prospect of a dozen random guys showing up to bang you every day. You probably don't enjoy sex with all of them. Some of them probably flat out disgust you, but your job is to open your legs for them and pretend that you enjoy the sex so you hold your nose and do it. I think it's misguided to believe that every sex worker we see is going to enjoy having sex with us every time we see them. On the other hand, some of them might be absolutely insatiable, but those are likely in the extreme minority.The barber has to cut everybody's' hair. Some are easy when they come for their monthly trim. Some are a pain in the ass when they ask for a Matt Damon special. Some stink and have head lice. But the barber never has an orgasm while cutting. The hooker has several.
Member #1492
08-13-24, 01:18
I am pretty close to LHU. When I was in my 20's, I could have sex five times in a day and kind of needed sex at least three or four times a week. Now 80. I can still fuck twice a week but can also control the urge much better. Due to financial restrictions, once a month is fine. I love reading the reports on this site and the opinions of other brothers. Thank you all for contributing. BS.Not as old, and not as experienced, but would like to give a shout out to all the great posters for your reviews and wealth of comments in this world. Thank you and a tip of the hat to you all. Much appreciated.
. Some stink and have head lice. But the barber never has an orgasm while cutting. The hooker has several.It's my understanding that in most if not all states, a barber, if they see head lice cannot continue to serve that client, they have to stop & ask person to leave due to possibility of contamination to other clients.
The girls here, yeah, I bet they get some pretty disgusting guys, those that are slobs and can't get attention elsewhere.
But I might be wrong.
BSouthgate
08-13-24, 14:19
It's my understanding that in most if not all states, a barber, if they see head lice cannot continue to serve that client, they have to stop & ask person to leave due to possibility of contamination to other clients.
The girls here, yeah, I bet they get some pretty disgusting guys, those that are slobs and can't get attention elsewhere.
But I might be wrong.Taws6, your point needs to be clarified.
If you are implying that a hooker cannot refuse service to a diseased client, you are dead wrong.
Indeed, escorts do refuse service to diseased clients. Massage girls, in most establishments, would have no problem refusing service if they found lice or cooties or evidence of STD. One massage girl insisted I wear a mask because I was coughing. Street girls are probably the same.
If your point regards clients with poor hygiene or ugly, it would depend on the girl. Most MP girls would hold their noses like the barber would hold his if I guy stunk.
More interesting is your assumption that Johns "can't get attention elsewhere" because they are fat, ugly, socially awkward, and sloppy. This is not the case at all. Most men who go to pros are polyamorous (genetically programmed to need multiple partners), 2. In a social situation (married or with gf) or financial situation, where they do not have the time, convenience, or money to seek sex partners on Tinder or in bars. Hookers are convenient, socially low profile (you pay them to leave), and relatively inexpensive of time and money compared to most other dating opportunities.
In my last review of Lucy at Four Seasons (below), I observed two other Johns who entered the same brothel. Neither of these was particularly ugly, overweight, or sloppy looking. Neither am I. I am old but socially adjusted, outgoing, have many friends, and very handsome. I always bathe, shave and comb my hair before I meet a woman for sex. I prefer sex with hookers to sex with pickups because I can program my time and spend less money.
I wonder if low self-esteem may be a motivation for your assumption that we brothers are all a bunch of socially backward fat nerds.
BSouthgate
08-13-24, 19:34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjQikPddpQg
You might want to re-read my post. Missed my point I think you did.
Taws6, your point needs to be clarified.
If you are implying that a hooker cannot refuse service to a diseased client, you are dead wrong.
Indeed, escorts do refuse service to diseased clients. Massage girls, in most establishments, would have no problem refusing service if they found lice or cooties or evidence of STD. One massage girl insisted I wear a mask because I was coughing. Street girls are probably the same.
If your point regards clients with poor hygiene or ugly, it would depend on the girl. Most MP girls would hold their noses like the barber would hold his if I guy stunk.
More interesting is your assumption that Johns "can't get attention elsewhere" because they are fat, ugly, socially awkward, and sloppy. This is not the case at all. Most men who go to pros are polyamorous (genetically programmed to need multiple partners), 2. In a social situation (married or with gf) or financial situation, where they do not have the time, convenience, or money to seek sex partners on Tinder or in bars. Hookers are convenient, socially low profile (you pay them to leave), and relatively inexpensive of time and money compared to most other dating opportunities.
In my last review of Lucy at Four Seasons (below), I observed two other Johns who entered the same brothel. Neither of these was particularly ugly, overweight, or sloppy looking. Neither am I. I am old but socially adjusted, outgoing, have many friends, and very handsome. I always bathe, shave and comb my hair before I meet a woman for sex. I prefer sex with hookers to sex with pickups because I can program my time and spend less money.
I wonder if low self-esteem may be a motivation for your assumption that we brothers are all a bunch of socially backward fat nerds.
DarkRoomDaddy
08-14-24, 02:42
I think that with prostitutes you get the whole spectrum. Some just need the money so badly that they'll do anything for it (and unfortunately, for some of them it's to support an unsavory habit). Some like they money they make for it and don't mind opening up their legs for multiple guys a day. They don't necessarily enjoy the sex but it's what they do for a living and they accept it. They culturally don't see it as an immoral profession, and that's fine. Some actually like the sex, some a lot more than others. But here's the thing. Even if you're a woman and you love sex and have a high sex drive, think about the prospect of a dozen random guys showing up to bang you every day. You probably don't enjoy sex with all of them. Some of them probably flat out disgust you, but your job is to open your legs for them and pretend that you enjoy the sex so you hold your nose and do it. I think it's misguided to believe that every sex worker we see is going to enjoy having sex with us every time we see them. On the other hand, some of them might be absolutely insatiable, but those are likely in the extreme minority.We're talking as if a bunch of girls graduate from high school, and some decide to go to university and some decide to go into the lucrative prostitution career because they like dick. I think the the missing element from this discussion is that most of these women are divorced and have a kid to support, or they have a deadbeat husband and kid to support, or they have six parents with little pension to support. A pension in China might be $300 a month, and that does not cover medical care.
I just saw a video on YT about a current scandal that blew up in China where people gave money to a children's charity, and so a single mother had a sick kid and applied to get some money for some life-saving medical treatment for her child. So the scumbag charity director would only give money to the woman if she slept with him, and she had to keep coming back to be fucked and he would dribble out a little more this charity money. Eventually her kid died, and then he kept the money for himself. Obviously that woman was not looking for a good boning, and dying to suck a dick. She did what she had to do for the love of her child.
BSouthgate
08-14-24, 15:54
You might want to re-read my post. Missed my point I think you did.Your post read as follows:
"It's my understanding that in most if not all states, a barber, if they see head lice cannot continue to serve that client, they have to stop & ask person to leave due to possibility of contamination to other clients.
The girls here, yeah, I bet they get some pretty disgusting guys, those that are slobs and can't get attention elsewhere.
But I might be wrong. ".
I found it slightly offensive. I am not "pretty disgusting" or "a slob" and I have always been able to attract sexual attention from women and occasionally, even at the age of 81, I occasionally encounter a smiling flirting face.
There is a tendency among some mongers to say things like, "How could a massage girl enjoy sex with guys like us" or "Why do you think your hooker is really enjoying your pathetic DATY?" These statements exhibit self-deprecation and low self-esteem. From my experience, from my extensive reading of research findings, and even from my survey of ten OC massage women, I find no support for hookers hating their jobs. On the contrary, like barbers, many enjoy their jobs immensely, but some do not enjoy them. But that has nothing to do with the customers all being fat, ugly and socially awkward.
See ALLLLLL the talk in massage thread from accounts with like 8-20 posts. How many of these are shills in your estimation?
BSouthgate
08-15-24, 13:45
See ALLLLLL the talk in massage thread from accounts with like 8-20 posts. How many of these are shills in your estimation?How can we know it is a shill?
This is a response to those saying that there's no girls under 30 working in AMPs. The main reason you may have not been seeing them is because you're probably not exploring enough, not researching enough, following the crowd, and only sticking 1-3 spas that keeps on getting pushed on the OC forum. If I'm finding them and others are finding them, you can also.
The argument that someone made that they don't exist is because any girls under 30 have boyfriends to support them. This is the most absurd reasoning. If that were true, all the girls under 30 found on popular escorts sites wouldn't exist. Sex workers under 30 wouldn't exist.
James D 2004
08-15-24, 17:15
See ALLLLLL the talk in massage thread from accounts with like 8-20 posts. How many of these are shills in your estimation?I think there may be a rule not to point fingers or else I would have doubled my post count. Make it triple.
This is a response to those saying that there's no girls under 30 working in AMPs. The main reason you may have not been seeing them is because you're probably not exploring enough, not researching enough, following the crowd, and only sticking 1-3 spas that keeps on getting pushed on the OC forum. If I'm finding them and others are finding them, you can also.
The argument that someone made that they don't exist is because any girls under 30 have boyfriends to support them. This is the most absurd reasoning. If that were true, all the girls under 30 found on popular escorts sites wouldn't exist. Sex workers under 30 wouldn't exist. Yeh! Or the one I keep running into is mwb (mongering while black) it was hard enough to have an established booker take a chance (an I think it's only cause I look mixedish).
I want to explore but and be diverse in my selection, I can't tell you how many times I've tried different AMPs just to be led in a room and left there for 20 minutes before I left.. Yeh!
SO if you have some tips on how to find these gems so I can be an bigger asset on these forums. And possibly a plug for Sammy Sosa strength industrial skin bleaching cream.
It'd be appreciated.
Yeh!
I think there may be a rule not to point fingers or else I would have doubled my post count. Make it triple.I don't even remember the names. I'm just asking for an estimate LOL but you answered as if I as asking something I wasn't!
Other guy: How can you tell a shill account? Look at the content of what they write paired with their account information like how many posts and if you want, you can even click their profile and see all the things they've written!
This is a response to those saying that there's no girls under 30 working in AMPs. The main reason you may have not been seeing them is because you're probably not exploring enough, not researching enough, following the crowd, and only sticking 1-3 spas that keeps on getting pushed on the OC forum. If I'm finding them and others are finding them, you can also.
The argument that someone made that they don't exist is because any girls under 30 have boyfriends to support them. This is the most absurd reasoning. If that were true, all the girls under 30 found on popular escorts sites wouldn't exist. Sex workers under 30 wouldn't exist.I figure I've been mongering for about 35 years. In all that time I've encountered maybe 2 or 3 girls in MPs (AMPs and LMPs) that I'd consider young hotties. Young being under about 25. I had a young Latina hottie in Downey once who couldn't have been much older than 20. I had a couple of Asian hotties who were probably in the 23 - 25 range. Outside of that, girls in their 30's and up is more the norm.
I've had a couple escorts who claimed to be 18 and their appearance supported them actually being that age. But of course they were quite expensive as compared to AMP prices.
So yeah they're out there, but you generally won't run into one by just walking into a massage shop. If you do, then you better buy a lottery ticket on your way out.
Way back in the day, I used to go to a place that was operating out of a big mansion in Bel Air. That was pre-internet days when you had to drop a quarter into the dispensers on the sidewalks and pick up a copy of the La X-Press. You'd always look around until you had a clear break to go get one because you felt like a royal pervert getting one of those in broad daylight. For those who don't know, those were newspapers with pictures of topless girls on the front page with stars covering their nipples, and they were full of sex ads. This place advertised "real college girls" and all of the girls literally looked like they could have just walked off the UCLA campus. I actually tried dating one but could never get her to fully agree. She was 18 and I was in my early 20's at the time. Basically it was a fancy jack shack. She'd get naked and spend an hour rubbing her tits all over you and then jerk you off. I went there about half a dozen times before it disappeared. Unfortunately I've never seen anything like it pop up since. I mean it wasn't a whole lot different than today's nuru shops, except all of the girls were very young and very hot, and most were white, locally grown girls.
https://www.newsweek.com/mpox-wastewater-california-san-francisco-1940156 (Mpox Detected in San Francisco Wastewater).
https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/health/2024/08/16/mpox-covid-california-your-morning
** IMP ** http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/media/monkeypox/data/index.htm (PLEASE SEE THESE WORRYING NUMBERS, over 95% of the infected are MALE).
Though not fatal unless you have a really compromised immune system, it is a horrible thing to contract with the lesions and all. It might leave you scarred. So take care mongers and if you do suspect or have symptoms of the virus infection, please stay away from infecting the ladies.
P.S.: I'm taking a hiatus till this thing blows over. Might consider getting vaccinated.
Domelike2020
08-17-24, 13:09
https://www.newsweek.com/mpox-wastewater-california-san-francisco-1940156 (Mpox Detected in San Francisco Wastewater).
https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/health/2024/08/16/mpox-covid-california-your-morning
** IMP ** http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/media/monkeypox/data/index.htm (PLEASE SEE THESE WORRYING NUMBERS, over 95% of the infected are MALE).
Though not fatal unless you have a really compromised immune system, it is a horrible thing to contract with the lesions and all. It might leave you scarred. So take care mongers and if you do suspect or have symptoms of the virus infection, please stay away from infecting the ladies.
P.S.: I'm taking a hiatus till this thing blows over. Might consider getting vaccinated.Isn't this mainly a disease spreading through the gay community?
Last time around I heard it was primarily hitting the gay community.
I figure I've been mongering for about 35 years. In all that time I've encountered maybe 2 or 3 girls in MPs (AMPs and LMPs) that I'd consider young hotties. Young being under about 25. I had a young Latina hottie in Downey once who couldn't have been much older than 20. I had a couple of Asian hotties who were probably in the 23 - 25 range. Outside of that, girls in their 30's and up is more the norm.
I've had a couple escorts who claimed to be 18 and their appearance supported them actually being that age. But of course they were quite expensive as compared to AMP prices.
So yeah they're out there, but you generally won't run into one by just walking into a massage shop. If you do, then you better buy a lottery ticket on your way out.
I started with this in the late 90's. At that time, the korean girls weren't all that old. Would have put me in Mid / Late 20's, and some were younger than me, most felt about my age, few felt older than I.
Today, well, a good number are younger than I, some older, some same age. It is rare to find a girl that I would suspect would be in lower 20's, most, in 30's I'd guess, probably some in 40's.
Even the K-Girls, all advertise as being 24 ish, and have been advertising that age for nearly 20 years. I have one specifically in mind, LOL.
Isn't this mainly a disease spreading through the gay community?
Last time around I heard it was primarily hitting the gay community.No, its not. It is transmitted through contact with an infected individual.
Lift Her Up
08-17-24, 20:53
No, its not. It is transmitted through contact with an infected individual.Looking at the site for the third link cited below, it looks like the LA County infection rate is 48 men to 1 woman, setting aside our transgender and nonbinary friends. So it would seem like it's mostly gays. For now. But it does give me pause.
Lift Her Up.
Domelike2020
08-18-24, 01:15
Looking at the site for the third link cited below, it looks like the LA County infection rate is 48 men to 1 woman, setting aside our transgender and nonbinary friends. So it would seem like it's mostly gays. For now. But it does give me pause.
Lift Her Up.2% of women are infected versus 96% men. Unless the 2% of women are fucking all the guys, the numbers point to it spreading in the gay community.
I'm not making any type of judgment. I'm just trying to be accurate in regards to the risk to straight males.
Mpduration
08-21-24, 11:40
https://www.newsweek.com/mpox-wastewater-california-san-francisco-1940156 (Mpox Detected in San Francisco Wastewater).
https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/health/2024/08/16/mpox-covid-california-your-morning
** IMP ** http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/media/monkeypox/data/index.htm (PLEASE SEE THESE WORRYING NUMBERS, over 95% of the infected are MALE).
Though not fatal unless you have a really compromised immune system, it is a horrible thing to contract with the lesions and all. It might leave you scarred. So take care mongers and if you do suspect or have symptoms of the virus infection, please stay away from infecting the ladies.
P.S.: I'm taking a hiatus till this thing blows over. Might consider getting vaccinated.More contiguous that the last strain.
"appears to be spreading through sexual networks".
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/21/why-the-latest-mpox-outbreak-is-raising-alarm-among-health-experts.html
For example, if a 300 lb man with pimples and scars on his face walks in, and he stinks like a homeless man. If it's a slow day, would most providers take him in, or make an excuse to turn him away?
For example, if a 300 lb man with pimples and scars on his face walks in, and he stinks like a homeless man. If it's a slow day, would most providers take him in, or make an excuse to turn him away?Without exception they say as long as they are clean so if he stank no but they would offer him a shower.
Some chicks won't do cowgirl on a guy that fat because the have to spread their legs and some aren't comfortable in missionary if they are working alone (he dies they are trapped under him).
But the VAST majority don't care as long as you are clean.
Dildo Baggens
08-24-24, 14:49
Agreed, In my decades of this hobby and the numerous conversations I've had with every kind of provider there is one universal axiom, they don't like stinky dirty guys. If you're new to this game, use the old time Honored triple S rule,(shit shower and shave). If you can't bathe, at least use their bathroom and clean yourself with soap water and towels.
Without exception they say as long as they are clean so if he stank no but they would offer him a shower.
Some chicks won't do cowgirl on a guy that fat because the have to spread their legs and some aren't comfortable in missionary if they are working alone (he dies they are trapped under him).
But the VAST majority don't care as long as you are clean.
ArtVandalay90
08-25-24, 03:22
For example, if a 300 lb man with pimples and scars on his face walks in, and he stinks like a homeless man. If it's a slow day, would most providers take him in, or make an excuse to turn him away?One of my ATF's told me she would tell undesirable clients HJ only instead of FS, and just take less money so she could move on to the next guy.
BSouthgate
08-25-24, 13:15
One of my ATF's told me she would tell undesirable clients HJ only instead of FS, and just take less money so she could move on to the next guy.That sounds reasonable. I am sure many use that strategy.
BSouthgate
08-25-24, 13:29
For example, if a 300 lb man with pimples and scars on his face walks in, and he stinks like a homeless man. If it's a slow day, would most providers take him in, or make an excuse to turn him away?Despite the bullshit that the Holier than Thou NGOs spread, most hookers are free to refuse any client for any reason (like the sign says in restaurants and bars). Of course if a woman continually refuses clients, the boss may decide that she is not suited for the position and hire another to replace her. That is just like any job at all except the hookers have more leeway to refuse clients than waitresses or hairdressers.
On the other hand, aside from guys who are so dirty and stinky that they offend even the mamasan who takes their house fee, why should a masseuse refuse a guy? He is a source of income. She has a lot of control over the situation. She can say she only does handjobs; no FS, no BJ, not even massage. Just hand release. She can ask for as much tip as she likes.
The lesson for you brothers is you should try to be as presentable and clean and smell as nice as you can. Shit, shave and wash before you play. The play will be more fun.
DarkRoomDaddy
08-25-24, 17:28
For example, if a 300 lb man with pimples and scars on his face walks in, and he stinks like a homeless man. If it's a slow day, would most providers take him in, or make an excuse to turn him away?On average, from seeing other mongers coming and going, they are not many Brad Pitts. Moreover, women generally care less about looks than men do. Valuing decency, kindness, and yes cleanliness. And even further, Chinese women in the sex business are probably even less picky about good looks or six packs. I think they appreciate a clean guy who is respectful and somewhat generous. Its possible if they see the proverbial 300 lb dude in the dark, they won't see the pimples. And they may think that this guy will be more appreciative of a good time than us seasoned mongers whose dicks have a high gloss finish after being hand waxed and polished so many times. When she is pulling his pickle, she is probably thinking more about how this 10 minute episode will earn her as much money as she would make in a week back home.
DarkRoomDaddy
08-25-24, 17:32
I figure I've been mongering for about 35 years. In all that time I've encountered maybe 2 or 3 girls in MPs (AMPs and LMPs) that I'd consider young hotties. Young being under about 25. I had a young Latina hottie in Downey once who couldn't have been much older than 20. I had a couple of Asian hotties who were probably in the 23 - 25 range. Outside of that, girls in their 30's and up is more the norm.
I've had a couple escorts who claimed to be 18 and their appearance supported them actually being that age. But of course they were quite expensive as compared to AMP prices.
So yeah they're out there, but you generally won't run into one by just walking into a massage shop. If you do, then you better buy a lottery ticket on your way out.
Way back in the day, I used to go to a place that was operating out of a big mansion in Bel Air. That was pre-internet days when you had to drop a quarter into the dispensers on the sidewalks and pick up a copy of the La X-Press. You'd always look around until you had a clear break to go get one because you felt like a royal pervert getting one of those in broad daylight. For those who don't know, those were newspapers with pictures of topless girls on the front page with stars covering their nipples, and they were full of sex ads. This place advertised "real college girls" and all of the girls literally looked like they could have just walked off the UCLA campus. I actually tried dating one but could never get her to fully agree. She was 18 and I was in my early 20's at the time. Basically it was a fancy jack shack. She'd get naked and spend an hour rubbing her tits all over you and then jerk you off. I went there about half a dozen times before it disappeared. Unfortunately I've never seen anything like it pop up since. I mean it wasn't a whole lot different than today's nuru shops, except all of the girls were very young and very hot, and most were white, locally grown girls.There is a really cute 19 year old in SH on Mag and Westmin. Gorgeous. Soft long hair that kinds of brushes against you as she leans over you. She kinda presses her B-cups into your head from behdi as she is doing the seated massage. She is graceful and wonderful. Only one slight downside. She only does legit massage. Not even a hint of a tease. She won't even touch your legs except through the towel. She doesn't even bring water to you as you get dressed. Personally I can't imagine trying to corrupt an innocent youth, so I just let her do her thing and don't push it or shove it into her hand.
DarkRoomDaddy
08-25-24, 23:36
Despite the bullshit that the Holier than Thou NGOs spread, most hookers are free to refuse any client for any reason (like the sign says in restaurants and bars). Of course if a woman continually refuses clients, the boss may decide that she is not suited for the position and hire another to replace her. That is just like any job at all except the hookers have more leeway to refuse clients than waitresses or hairdressers.
On the other hand, aside from guys who are so dirty and stinky that they offend even the mamasan who takes their house fee, why should a masseuse refuse a guy? He is a source of income. She has a lot of control over the situation. She can say she only does handjobs; no FS, no BJ, not even massage. Just hand release. She can ask for as much tip as she likes.
The lesson for you brothers is you should try to be as presentable and clean and smell as nice as you can. Shit, shave and wash before you play. The play will be more fun.One of the girls at SH told me that she never has to deal with a customer she doesn't want to, and that PPS is supportive of the girls. That being said, I have never at any time seen any evidence that others mongers or myself were ever approved or vetted by girls. Usually PPS says "1 hour combo" and you are lead to the darkened mini-room of carnal pleasures. I have never seen a girl look you up and down, and say "Well OK, I'll accept this one as a client". Maybe if they are going to reject they tell you that your girl has another appointment and suggest you see the new girl who doesn't know how to massage at all as a substitute.
Anyone got recommendations for psych counseling around Costa Mesa, Santa Ana that deals with this stuff?
(I hear that now they're saying it can be related to ADHD).
Sure feels a lot like when I was psychologically addicted to weed back in the 90's and 00's.
One of my ATF's told me she would tell undesirable clients HJ only instead of FS, and just take less money so she could move on to the next guy.One of the girls I used to visit a lot told me that if she didn't like someone, she would just ask another girl to attend to him. I've also read some Rubmaps reviews where a girl would do the massage part and then have a different girl do the main event part.
BSouthgate
08-26-24, 17:09
Anyone got recommendations for psych counseling around Costa Mesa, Santa Ana that deals with this stuff?
(I hear that now they're saying it can be related to ADHD).
Sure feels a lot like when I was psychologically addicted to weed back in the 90's and 00's.Some men like sex with men. They are not addicted. They are gay. It is useless to try to "convert" them with therapy or medicines.
Some men like sex with multiple partners. They are not addicted. They are polyamorous. It is useless to try to convert them.
Don't fall for the bullshit about sex addiction. You will always want sex with more partners. It is completely normal. Accept yourself and find a way to adjust to life as a polyamorous man.
See this post for more info:
http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4228-Sexual-Addiction-Reports
Some men like sex with men. They are not addicted. They are gay. It is useless to try to "convert" them with therapy or medicines.
Some men like sex with multiple partners. They are not addicted. They are polyamorous. It is useless to try to convert them.
Don't fall for the bullshit about sex addiction. You will always want sex with more partners. It is completely normal. Accept yourself and find a way to adjust to life as a polyamorous man.
See this post for more info:
http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4228-Sexual-Addiction-ReportsInteresting. I thought poly "amory" was about "love," which is not my problem. Looked it up though, and it seems you're right.
That said, I'm married to a wonderful woman who did NOT sign up for this, and being able to CHOOSE our behavior instead of being ruled by impulse is supposed to be a part of what separates us from the animals, so.
In my case, "adjust (ing) to life as a polyamorous man" would ideally mean learning to live without mongering. Sort of like I don't eat Prime Rib with horseradish or McDonald's much anymore because my cholesterol is high. And sadly. So far. I lack the self discipline for mongering that I seem to have towards my favorite foods.
Without exception they say as long as they are clean so if he stank no but they would offer him a shower.
Some chicks won't do cowgirl on a guy that fat because the have to spread their legs and some aren't comfortable in missionary if they are working alone (he dies they are trapped under him).
But the VAST majority don't care as long as you are clean.Words of wisdom here. People overthink attraction but what matters is cleanliness and behavior. In countries where it is legal the rules list always say you have to be clean, off drugs, and not violent. The women don't care about your attractiveness. If you are very large they may have to work around it in practical terms, that's all.
I have never had a stripper or SW hop off of me and say you are an old man I'm not doing this. Quite the opposite I present myself well and they let me go to town on them.
Interesting. I thought poly "amory" was about "love," which is not my problem. Looked it up though, and it seems you're right.
That said, I'm married to a wonderful woman who did NOT sign up for this, and being able to CHOOSE our behavior instead of being ruled by impulse is supposed to be a part of what separates us from the animals, so.
In my case, "adjust (ing) to life as a polyamorous man" would ideally mean learning to live without mongering. Sort of like I don't eat Prime Rib with horseradish or McDonald's much anymore because my cholesterol is high. And sadly. So far. I lack the self discipline for mongering that I seem to have towards my favorite foods.I am also very happily married to a wonderful wife. The way I look at mongering is that it's a transactional thing that keeps me and my marriage healthy. Do I feel good that I monger? For the most part, no. Sometimes knowing that I do this makes me feel like a piece of shit. It kills me that I have this little secret part of my life that I'll never be able to let my SO in on. But at the same time I have sexual urges and desires that being monogamous doesn't fulfill. I can't / won't have an actual affair or hook up with a sex partner at a bar. I'd never be able to forgive myself if I did. That's acting on a physical and / or emotional attraction and would fall firmly in the cheating category, and I just wouldn't be able to live with myself if I ever did that. But by going to see a provider once in a while, it's a purely transactional thing where she gets me off, I pay my money, and leave. There's no emotional attachment. There may or may not be a little bit of physical attraction. But once I have my clothes back on and am out the door, it's over, and I likely won't ever see that person again. There are very few providers that I've seen more than once or twice. That's all I normally do, because if I do become a regular it starts to become an attachment, and I don't want that. That arm's length relationship is how I personally deal with it. By going to see a provider to get my pipes cleaned once in a while, I've never had a desire to have a real fling with anyone else.
BSouthgate
08-27-24, 15:31
Interesting. I thought poly "amory" was about "love," which is not my problem. Looked it up though, and it seems you're right.
That said, I'm married to a wonderful woman who did NOT sign up for this, and being able to CHOOSE our behavior instead of being ruled by impulse is supposed to be a part of what separates us from the animals, so.
In my case, "adjust (ing) to life as a polyamorous man" would ideally mean learning to live without mongering. Sort of like I don't eat Prime Rib with horseradish or McDonald's much anymore because my cholesterol is high. And sadly. So far. I lack the self discipline for mongering that I seem to have towards my favorite foods.Before you were married, did you have multiple sex partners? Perhaps Tinder dates? Perhaps, women you met in bars? Perhaps friends at work, college, etc. ? I would bet that your wife is not your first lover. She did not sign up for marriage to a man who needs sex with multiple women. Just like a woman who marries a gay or bisexual man did not sign up for a man who needs sex with guys. But bisexual and polyamorous men cannot change.
With therapy two or three times a week and weekly attendance at those twelve-step programs, with pills for ADHD, your behavior may be reversed. But your nature will never be converted. You will suffer depression and anxiety worse than you now suffer. You will dream about sex with other women. You are likely to slip and have sex with a colleague on a business trip or with a woman you meet in a museum or with a massage girl at Right Spa. You will suffer so much because you are normal and you are trying to force yourself to confirm to what is not normal for you.
There are other ways around this.
Does your wife love you? If she does, she may be much more understanding than you imagine. Consider squaring with her. There are lots of ways you can be fulfilled as a polyamorous man. Some choose swinging. Some partners allow their spouses weekly or monthly trips to the brothel. Think hard about this before you do it. But this might be the best solution to this problem.
Is your wife, like you, secretly polyamorous? You can immediately say "no". But are you 100% sure she is not having affairs, or trysting with work partners or even seeing male masseuses once in a while? She may be suffering from the same ambiguity and guilt you suffer. She may be suffering extreme anxiety because she has to repress normal desires, just like you.
If you cannot open up with her, that is too bad, but there is still a solution. See my post here. http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4228-Sexual-Addiction-Reports.
BSouthgate
08-27-24, 15:32
Words of wisdom here. People overthink attraction but what matters is cleanliness and behavior. In countries where it is legal the rules list always say you have to be clean, off drugs, and not violent. The women don't care about your attractiveness. If you are very large they may have to work around it in practical terms, that's all.
I have never had a stripper or SW hop off of me and say you are an old man I'm not doing this. Quite the opposite I present myself well and they let me go to town on them.Totally agree. Too bad so many of these new MPs do not have showers.
Does your wife love you? If she does, she may be much more understanding than you imagine. Consider squaring with her. There are lots of ways you can be fulfilled as a polyamorous man. Some choose swinging. Some partners allow their spouses weekly or monthly trips to the brothel. Think hard about this before you do it. But this might be the best solution to this problem.
.You are certainly entitled to your opinion and can run your life the way you want to. But to advise others to follow your path, is reckless. For anyone considering doing what BSouthgate is advocating; Once you let the cat out of the bag, there's no going back. You will never know how your partner will react to this news. If you do decide to go down this path, be prepared for the consequences, upto and including divorce.
BSouthgate
08-28-24, 01:38
You are certainly entitled to your opinion and can run your life the way you want to. But to advise others to follow your path, is reckless. For anyone considering doing what BSouthgate is advocating; Once you let the cat out of the bag, there's no going back. You will never know how your partner will react to this news. If you do decide to go down this path, be prepared for the consequences, upto and including divorce.If he takes the path of sex addiction treatment. Part of that treatment is to square with your partner. And if you do not square, you have to continuously lie about why you are going to therapy sessions twice a week, why you have a 12-step sponsor, and why you are taking those pills for ADHD.
SCjohn, if you had read all of my post, including the reference, you would see that I propose another path which is not the ridiculous sex addiction treatment nor letting the cat out. Here is the reference again. http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4228-Sexual-Addiction-Reports.
Jhadiib's problem is not that he needs sex with multiple partners. All of us have this need. His problem, and the problem many of us suffer from, is that we do not want to admit that we are polyamorous. Not even to ourselves, let alone to our loved ones. Polyamorous people need to come out of the closet as gay people did in the end of the last century. Polyamorous people are not sick, perverted or addicted. They are genetically predisposed to a certain sexual preference.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion and can run your life the way you want to. But to advise others to follow your path, is reckless. For anyone considering doing what BSouthgate is advocating; Once you let the cat out of the bag, there's no going back. You will never know how your partner will react to this news. If you do decide to go down this path, be prepared for the consequences, upto and including divorce.Yeah. I knew when I posted that this was an odd place to ask for a therapist referral. LOL.
An even more unlikely place to actually GET the counseling I'm looking for (BSouthgate).
Happy Mongering, gentlemen. I'll figure it out.
James D 2004
08-28-24, 11:33
Coffee is an addiction. But it's affordable for most people. Numerous studies claim that coffee is beneficial (probably sponsored by Starbucks). It's not going to hurt any other people. If you want to save some money paying for sex, go for counseling by all means if you think it will work. Sex by itself is not harmful and somewhat self-regulated. I don't think you need to suppress your urges; that's evolution.
Guilt is what you feel. If your sexual urges are not satisfied by your SO, it's only natural to find satisfaction somewhere else. Just don't let your religion or morality get the better of you.
By definition, I'm somewhat in a polyamorous relationship. I have various (paid) partners, and they have other partners. Do I like it? Hell no. Do I like my ATF being fucked by other clients and put their dick into her mouth? No. But for money makes it OK; I can't afford exclusive. If she goes to bed with another person because she likes it, I'm jealous. I'm not only paying for pure sex and attraction. I need more to get more buck out of the money.
Am I mono or poly? I tend to settle down on the one who satisfies me most and enough. But mostly I'm in various stages of audition.
BSouthgate
08-28-24, 12:02
Yeah. I knew when I posted that this was an odd place to ask for a therapist referral. LOL.
An even more unlikely place to actually GET the counseling I'm looking for (BSouthgate).
Happy Mongering, gentlemen. I'll figure it out.I understand precisely what you are going through. I have been there. I wasted thousands on sex addiction therapy. I wasted hours at "I am Bobby. I am a sex addict. " 12-step meetings. After all the useless therapy and meetings, I divorced my former wife, realizing that "I am who I am. I am polyamorous".
I found my way out of the shadows of shame and guilt and into the light of self-realization. I am now married to a truly loving woman who understands me for who I am, not for what her church tells her I should be. I enjoy her love immensely as well as an occasional visit to the massage parlor.
Polyamorous of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your shame; you have a hell of a lot of pussy to win.
Yeah. I knew when I posted that this was an odd place to ask for a therapist referral. LOL.
An even more unlikely place to actually GET the counseling I'm looking for (BSouthgate).
Happy Mongering, gentlemen. I'll figure it out.There are some app-based counseling services where you can go on a video call with a therapist once a week and it isn't that expensive. Like $30 for a counseling session. Mindspace and Better Help are two that I can think of off the top of my head. You could do that somewhat anonymously without having to worry about actually going to a therapy session and explaining to people why you're in therapy.
BSouthgate
08-28-24, 13:47
There are some app-based counseling services where you can go on a video call with a therapist once a week and it isn't that expensive. Like $30 for a counseling session. Mindspace and Better Help are two that I can think of off the top of my head. You could do that somewhat anonymously without having to worry about actually going to a therapy session and explaining to people why you're in therapy.Should have figured that some clever therapist would figure out a new way to surreptitiously rip us off for our normal behaviour.
Try it and report back.
There are some app-based counseling services where you can go on a video call with a therapist once a week and it isn't that expensive. Like $30 for a counseling session. Mindspace and Better Help are two that I can think of off the top of my head. You could do that somewhat anonymously without having to worry about actually going to a therapy session and explaining to people why you're in therapy.Appreciate your thoughts and good intentions. All of you guys. Not sure there's a wrong or right. Why'know: different strokes (no pun intended) for different folks.
Each of you has hit on some truths, and the rest is just individual circumstances and preferences.
BSouthgate
08-29-24, 11:45
Appreciate your thoughts and good intentions. All of you guys. Not sure there's a wrong or right. Why'know: different strokes (no pun intended) for different folks.
Each of you has hit on some truths, and the rest is just individual circumstances and preferences.I have to say this now.
A brother recently criticized my advice to a third brother regarding opening up to one's spouse. I had advised a troubled brother who was concerned about his perceived "sexual addiction" to square with his wife and try to get her to accept him for who he was rather than for what she wanted him to be. Alternatively, since he would always be polyamorous and seek relations with other women, he could continue the hobby and cease having sex with his wife. The criticizing brother called my advice reckless because it might lead to divorce.
It is reckless to continue living a lie. It is irresponsible for polyamorous people who have had multiple relationships before marriage to promise their spouses that they will be loyal forever when it is likely that they will not be loyal forever. Many, including myself, have made this mistake.
I married, loved, fathered two children, and secretly led a second life with lovers, affairs, one-night stands, and hookers. My wife contracted asymptomatic HPV and, during her pregnancy, contracted PID. My God! What shame for such disgusting recklessness. She eventually discovered my second life.
To save my sick marriage, I underwent useless sex addiction therapy and absurd 12-step programs and read Patrick Carnes's book, only to find that I could not change my nature. Like a closeted gay guy who dreams every night about cocks, I dreamt every night about pussies, lots of them. The one thing that the addiction therapists got right was that I should have opened up to my wife earlier in my life. What they got wrong was that I could somehow change my nature.
After a six months of celibacy, I picked up a street girl for a joyous hour of uninhibited sex in a hotel room. The shame of that hit me the next day after I had come down from the bliss of the event. Again, I tried celibacy, therapy, "I am Bobby, I am a sexaholic" meetings. I spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours trying to convert.
A month later, on a business trip, I took a dinner companion to my hotel room for a night of orgasmic joy. Again, guilty, guilty, guilty.
Finally, I realized that I would never change. I decided that I could induce my wife to change. I urged her to try swinging groups with me and to go to singles bars to meet new guys and have new experiences. I loved her and wanted her to enjoy the kind of joy I had with other people. No luck. She was not polyamorous. She could not convert, and neither could I. She could not accept me, and I could never change.
I left to live in another country. I divorced.
I finally found a partner who accepts me for who I am. I am delighted with her and want to die in her arms. She is my angel.
So, guys, it is not reckless to tell your spouse. It is reckless not to tell her and to endanger her health without her knowledge. You are not sex addicts or perverts. You are polyamorous. Be honest with her and with yourselves. Accept yourself and rejoice. Polyamorous pride forever.
See my other post on this here.
http://www.usasexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4228-Sexual-Addiction-Reports
So, guys, it is not reckless to tell your spouse. It is reckless not to tell her and to endanger her health without her knowledge. You are not sex addicts or perverts. You are polyamorous. Be honest with her and with yourselves. Accept yourself and rejoice. Polyamorous pride forever.Glad that works for you.
Although I don't really know what goes on inside a woman's head (who here does?) - I can only speak from my experiences.
As the old saying goes, Men are from Mars, women from Venus.
We are built differently.
Especially after a woman starts squeezing out puppies, their priorities change. We don't (by and large).
By that I mean that for the vast majority here, having an occasional side thing going on without disclosure to he wife is far healthier than telling your wife that you are going go be fucking around on her.
Women want that loving dedicated husband, father etc. Take that from her, you do far more damage and the odds are far against any conceivable percentage of chance that she will "understand".
From where I sit, I disagree wholeheartedly.
RedRoddddd
08-29-24, 20:27
Glad that works for you.
Although I don't really know what goes on inside a woman's head (who here does?) - I can only speak from my experiences.
As the old saying goes, Men are from Mars, women from Venus.
We are built differently.
Especially after a woman starts squeezing out puppies, their priorities change. We don't (by and large).
By that I mean that for the vast majority here, having an occasional side thing going on without disclosure to he wife is far healthier than telling your wife that you are going go be fucking around on her.
Women want that loving dedicated husband, father etc. Take that from her, you do far more damage and the odds are far against any conceivable percentage of chance that she will "understand".
From where I sit, I disagree wholeheartedly.American girls want Princess Charming, and all the she's the one and only one rules.
Tell your wife, I had a porn star experience with Megan ans Sofia / Selina BBBJCIM and all. Oh and I went backdoor on YaYa last time. It was dark and tight.
No bueno. Be smart. Be safe. She might want BBFS but you do not. Or go Buddhist and be free.
Happy hunting.
Red.
DarkRoomDaddy
08-31-24, 20:56
Should have figured that some clever therapist would figure out a new way to surreptitiously rip us off for our normal behaviour.
Try it and report back.We probably all share a lov of fresh tuna. But did you ever ask yourself why? If you go see 30 different massage girls to pay and spray, and maybe get a handful (or mouthful) of some salty fish broth, what exactly are we looking for? To compare to eating, its boring to eat the same meal at the same restaurant every night. Its much more fun to have tacos one night, beef burgundy the next, pizza the following night, followed by some Chinese then Thai. That variety seems natural. But when we (me included) to 30 different AMP's and get the same experience, its like just going out to different restaurants to try their different variations of tacos. And once I found the place that serves the best tacos, I would probably just keep going back there.
If its a matter of seeing if you can convince a gilr to do naughty things because of your personal charm, that would be another motivation. Although is it your witty banter or your c-note that she loves? And actuallly your wit and humor and knowledge of fine wines might seduce a high class woman, but those thigns fall kind of flat on sex workers. There are some who get into the cuddling arena for whom that scenario makes much more sense, and is not about money so much. That is closer to the situatoin of going out in the street, and picking up a woman and charming her and seducing her. Thats the real challenge.
Bottom line. Don't put too much mental effort or congratulations into mongering. Just enjoy the ride for what its worth.
I understand precisely what you are going through. I have been there. I wasted thousands on sex addiction therapy. I wasted hours at "I am Bobby. I am a sex addict. " 12-step meetings. After all the useless therapy and meetings, I divorced my former wife, realizing that "I am who I am. I am polyamorous".
I found my way out of the shadows of shame and guilt and into the light of self-realization. I am now married to a truly loving woman who understands me for who I am, not for what her church tells her I should be. I enjoy her love immensely as well as an occasional visit to the massage parlor.
Polyamorous of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your shame; you have a hell of a lot of pussy to win.I think there are two sides of this and culture plays a big role. Yes, if therapy consists of admissions of guilt and pretending not to be who you are, it is a waste. But actual therapy can be useful, it's not hopeless there. My friend recommended a therapist who did none of that and helped a lot. It made me more of who I am, not less. Be who you really are, as early as you can in life.
As you say religion and culture play a big role. It makes a huge difference to avoid religious women for that reason.
BSouthgate
09-01-24, 01:12
Glad that works for you.
Although I don't really know what goes on inside a woman's head (who here does?) - I can only speak from my experiences.
As the old saying goes, Men are from Mars, women from Venus.
We are built differently.
Especially after a woman starts squeezing out puppies, their priorities change. We don't (by and large).
By that I mean that for the vast majority here, having an occasional side thing going on without disclosure to he wife is far healthier than telling your wife that you are going go be fucking around on her.
Women want that loving dedicated husband, father etc. Take that from her, you do far more damage and the odds are far against any conceivable percentage of chance that she will "understand".
From where I sit, I disagree wholeheartedly.From experience with three wives, dozens of gfs, scores of casual encounters and hundreds of hookers, I have some idea what goes on in their heads.
There are two levels: physical and cultural.
Physical. Women, like men, have libido or sexuality. They want sexual release ten times a day, one time a week or not at all. Like men, they masturbate. According to research, more frequently than we do. A guy, who posted on a porn site, worked as a hotel night clerk. He put hidden clock cameras in some of the hotel rooms. He recorded single women occupants masturbating. He revealed in a PM that the majority of females hotel room occupants masturbated at least once a night. Some masturbated several times each night. Some not at all.
Hetero women do not just get off by themselves. They also like to fuck with men. Of my three wives, the first was hypersexual and wanted sex several times per day, more than I did. That is one of the reasons we separated and divorced. The third wife does not like sex hardly at all. The second liked it once or twice per week.
Women also have different sexual preferences. Some like to have one partner; some two; some several.
All of the above describe women's physical sexuality. These features are largely genetically programmed and not learned.
Cultural learned sexuality. Women, more than men, learn cultural mores, rules and taboos about sex. Most women are more conformist than men. They need to fit their image to the ideal that they learned as little girls. For most, they need to look like princesses, searching for Prince Charming to sweep them off their feet. When they think they have found Prince Charming, they want him to also conform to their ideal marriage image. He must work hard, support the family and be sexually faithful. She, the princess, must also be faithful. She can enjoy fucking but only with her prince and he can enjoy only with her, the princess.
However, if she is a high libido woman with a physical preference for multiple partners, she will have problems adjusting to monogamy. My first wife was such a woman. She naturally needed to fuck with multiple partners. I was immature and could not accept this. We divorced.
Women will be less honest about their sex lives especially when they discuss them with other women. Even modern women will try to mould their stories into the princess cultural ideology. They will not admit to masturbating often; they will deny enjoying sex with multiple partners. It is only within the last two generations that they started to admit to like sex at all. Before that, nobody even imagined that women could enjoy orgasms, much less orgasms from their fingers, vibrators or tongues.
There is a dichotomous contradiction between their physical and cultural sexuality. Physically, they are hornier than we are. Culturally they dare not admit horniness. This applies to prostitutes, certainly to Chinese pros. I am Caucasian but lived in China for years. I am fluent in Mandarin. I once overheard Chinese pros in China talking about their customers. Two sex workers, one who was assigned to service me as soon a a room was free, were competing in convincing each other about how much they disliked sex work. I sat quietly and listened. I expected my hour with the woman to be mechanical, boring and disappointing. It was not. She was very responsive and had several convulsive orgasms. No, she was not faking. Those of you with experience know the difference. She would never admit to her colleague that she really enjoyed sex with her clients. Her colleague probably the same. This is the dichotomous contradiction. They like the sex with lots of guys but they cannot admit it. Many if not most women have this contradiction.
I advised a brother who mistakenly thinks he has sex addiction to square with his wife. I understand why you disagree with that advice. She may be so overwhelmed with cultural mores about sexual fidelity and she may find it impossible to allow that both the brother, her husband, and she, the aspiring princess, are just physical beings that need sex but actually love each other with a pure love that can liberate them from cultural bonds.
In my long life, I have found it better to be honest in my truly intimate relationships with spouses and children; that may not work for everyone.
<<SNIPPED>> I advised a brother who mistakenly thinks he has sex addiction to square with his wife. I understand why you disagree with that advice. She may be so overwhelmed with cultural mores about sexual fidelity and she may find it impossible to allow that both the brother, her husband, and she, the aspiring princess, are just physical beings that need sex but actually love each other with a pure love that can liberate them from cultural bonds.
In my long life, I have found it better to be honest in my truly intimate relationships with spouses and children; that may not work for everyone.Not attacking you, but I hope no one reading this runs off and overshares with their significant other that they are fucking hookers. I think it's a terrible idea. The fact that you mention you are on wife number three should be enough to convince everyone reading that you may not be the best source of advice regarding marital matters.
My advice. Deny, deny, deny if you want to stay married. If not, simply get divorced on the best possible terms and go fuck all you want.
BSouthgate
09-01-24, 16:36
Not attacking you, but I hope no one reading this runs off and overshares with their significant other that they are fucking hookers. I think it's a terrible idea. The fact that you mention you are on wife number three should be enough to convince everyone reading that you may not be the best source of advice regarding marital matters.
My advice. Deny, deny, deny if you want to stay married. If not, simply get divorced on the best possible terms and go fuck all you want.Note that when my second wife and I got divorced, it was not because I shared that I was fucking ******. She found out and we got divorced because she she was puzzled as to how she had contracted HPV infection. She figured it out. That is the tragedy I hope does not happen to any other brothers here. Of course I could have just denied denied denied and told her she got infected from a toilet seat.
BTW, two thirds of American marriages end in divorce. So the prevalence of twice divorced males is high.
Now, I am married to a woman who allows my sexual freedom and takes care of me. Not a bad end for an 80 year old!!
Note that when my second wife and I got divorced, it was not because I shared that I was fucking ******. She found out and we got divorced because she she was puzzled as to how she had contracted HPV infection. She figured it out. That is the tragedy I hope does not happen to any other brothers here. Of course I could have just denied denied denied and told her she got infected from a toilet seat.
BTW, two thirds of American marriages end in divorce. So the prevalence of twice divorced males is high.
Now, I am married to a woman who allows my sexual freedom and takes care of me. Not a bad end for an 80 year old!!So the tragedy was barebacking hookers and then barebacking your significant other, in my opinion. That was poor decision-making regarding where and how you're managing your dick, not a need to mitigate the problem by telling the wife.
But given that you managed to give your wife an HPV infection, the result would likely have been the same regardless of whether you denied it or not. Anyway, I've said my piece. Everyone will make their own decisions—best of luck to all.
DarkRoomDaddy
09-02-24, 18:33
From experience with three wives, dozens of gfs, scores of casual encounters and hundreds of hookers, I have some idea what goes on in their heads.
There are two levels: physical and cultural.
Physical. Women, like men, have libido or sexuality. They want sexual release ten times a day, one time a week or not at all. Like men, they masturbate. According to research, more frequently than we do. A guy, who posted on a porn site, worked as a hotel night clerk. He put hidden clock cameras in some of the hotel rooms. He recorded single women occupants masturbating. He revealed in a PM that the majority of females hotel room occupants masturbated at least once a night. Some masturbated several times each night. Some not at all.
Hetero women do not just get off by themselves. They also like to fuck with men. Of my three wives, the first was hypersexual and wanted sex several times per day, more than I did. That is one of the reasons we separated and divorced. The third wife does not like sex hardly at all. The second liked it once or twice per week.
Women also have different sexual preferences. Some like to have one partner; some two; some several.
All of the above describe women's physical sexuality. These features are largely genetically programmed and not learned.Where do you get a job at that hotel? But with our society, a hidden camera like that will probably get you more jail time than hiring a hooker. But those videos would be nice to see.
There are also women who can go 5-10 years without sex, and who prefer cuddling. And on the other end of the spectrum there are something like 10% of women who get off on anal sex. There is much more variety in women than there is in men. We are more alike than we like to think.
BSouthgate
09-03-24, 00:49
Where do you get a job at that hotel? But with our society, a hidden camera like that will probably get you more jail time than hiring a hooker. But those videos would be nice to see.
There are also women who can go 5-10 years without sex, and who prefer cuddling. And on the other end of the spectrum there are something like 10% of women who get off on anal sex. There is much more variety in women than there is in men. We are more alike than we like to think.Totally agree that women are extremely variable. Men are also variable but less so.
Regarding the hotel clerk who video recorded clients, he posted on one of major tube sites that starts with x. He made loads of videos of women masturbating in their rooms. His videos have been taken down and I have not seen them on the lesser sites like p. Zog. If I see them, I will let you know.
He responded to my PMs for a while explaining how he made the videos and how often single women would masturbate. I remember him saying that most single women did self love and some did it several times before retiring. But some women stayed multiple nites without touching themselves.
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