Massage Parlor Reports

[DominicanPete]

I'm not a lawyer but:
1. I never negotiate. If a masseuse starts down that road I just don't talk. I usually get what I want. Remember, the masseuse usually turns the lights waaay down toward the end of massage, so cameras may not do well. And i believe ifrared cameras are conspicuous. Microphones, however, will work.

2. I do look around the room for cameras while she leaves me to undress. I got caught once by the masseuse returning while had a picture frame in my hand trying to rehab it. She laughed and said "very good! We don't want any bugs!" I've always felt a little paranoid doing it but not anymore.

3. Do not EVER admit to anything, even an HE. You came to get a massage and did. I have a bad back. I'm not interested in anything else. I see Asian masseuses bc they are the best trained.

If you watch the television shows filmed in hotels on Polk county attempting to bust prostitutes and backpage users, the never prosecuted Johns who did not admit to anything.

In regards to point 1 there were quite a few guys who had that experience and they are now facing charges. The exact scenario you described happened in quite a few of the Martin County cases and microphones were not used there. You can read the full details of the arrest reports online.

In regards to point 3 none of these guys were questioned. They visited the spa and a few weeks / months later LEO is at their door with warrants because there is hard video evidence and surveillance from inside and outside the spa.

Also I'm sure for most of us we really shouldn't be worried if some lawyer can get us off. The bigger impact is just being named in something like this and the impact they have financially, professionally, and on the family. The legal process is just background noise.

[Indian River]

Many good reasons why LEO took so long to close the AMP. They mention trafficking as the reason. But as one monger said if that is case why wait 8 months. They should go in there quickly to save the girls but they did not. The reason is very clear. LEO knows there is no trafficking. They just say this to get media coverage. The real reason for 8 months to get as many Johns as they can. Sure they arrest the AMTs but they want the Johns more. 100 or 200 arrests makes their arrest stats high and keeps their court system busy. As they say, follow the money. It may sound untrue but think about it. They can get allot of Johns in 8 months. The AMTs can come later. They are not going anywhere. Just my opinion.

[DarkKnight2K]

Is this the Serenity on and trail Or Dr. Phillips?

On the trail, same shopping plaza as a pizza joint.

[SevenYearMitch]

3. Do not EVER admit to anything, even an HE. You came to get a massage and did. I have a bad back. I'm not interested in anything else. I see Asian masseuses bc they are the best trained.

If you watch the television shows filmed in hotels on Polk county attempting to bust prostitutes and backpage users, the never prosecuted Johns who did not admit to anything.

Good advice Frank! Not only would I not admit to anything, I wouldn't say ANYTHING to the police, not one fucking word. Talking to the police will never help you. Everyone in this hobby should watch this vid by a law professor if you haven't already:

https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE

SYM.

[FrankCuba]

I'm not a lawyer but:
1. I never negotiate. If a masseuse starts down that road I just don't talk. I usually get what I want. Remember, the masseuse usually turns the lights waaay down toward the end of massage, so cameras may not do well. And i believe ifrared cameras are conspicuous. Microphones, however, will work.

2. I do look around the room for cameras while she leaves me to undress. I got caught once by the masseuse returning while had a picture frame in my hand trying to rehab it. She laughed and said "very good! We don't want any bugs!" I've always felt a little paranoid doing it but not anymore.

3. Do not EVER admit to anything, even an HE. You came to get a massage and did. I have a bad back. I'm not interested in anything else. I see Asian masseuses bc they are the best trained.

If you watch the television shows filmed in hotels on Polk county attempting to bust prostitutes and backpage users, the never prosecuted Johns who did not admit to anything.

[James185]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/johnny-...224726267.html

[Wolverines]

This was shared in our forum. Lots of surveillance details.

Spotted this on a Detroit thread:

https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/...db0/hua-pc.pdf

Stay safe out there, MH2.

[DirkDig1]

With all due respect to Kalafina, I'm not buying this explanation. The police claim to have high quality video depicting the exchange of money for sexual acts. Once you have one or two cases, why wait another 8 months before taking action to "rescue" the women from sex trafficking and to bust the traffickers? There is another more plausible explanation-- the police were collecting evidence to bust a larger group of customers, maybe even waiting for a high profile customer, so they could publish embarrassing photos of men who were accused but not yet found guilty of a crime (whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty? Whatever happened to the "protect and serve" motto for police?

If the police and the politicians were truly interested in putting a dent into human trafficking, they would push to make prostitution legal, safe and regulated. This would provide women who were willing to provide sexual services for pay with a safe place to ply their freely chosen profession (and yes, some women would freely choose this line of work, especially when compared with alternative sources of employment). Legalized prostitution would also provide men with a safe and legal alternative for seeking sexual services. Legalizing prostitution would undercut the economic motivation that drives human trafficking (in somewhat the same way that the 21st Amendment repealed Prohibition and undercut the economic motivation for illegally produced alcohol, much of which was dangerous for the consumer (check the history books on Al Capone and bootleggers). There is a reason that prostitution is the wold's oldest profession-- you aren't going to prevent men from being interested in sex, no matter how many "johns" you bust and how many mug shots you publish in the news media. Why not experiment with a different approach and make prostitution safe, legal and regulated? This would afford the female sex workers that same employee rights and protections as would be applied in any business sector and also provide a legal alternative where otherwise law abiding men would direct their spending for sexual services.

Of course, efforts to legalize prostitution would could provoke the ire of religious leaders who want to impose their morals about sex on others. But given the number of churches that are embroiled in sex scandals, I suggest that it is time to rethink the role of religion as it pertains to sex. Said another way, don't impose your values on others until you clean up your own house, and don't expect to clean up your own house until you recognize that sex is a basic human need, nearly on the same level as food and water.

The focus should be on preventing human trafficking (forcing another person into provide labor, be it sexual or otherwise), not on preventing sex between consenting adults, even if money (or other valuables) is exchanged in the sexual service.

Note: I know it is politically correct to use gender neutral pronouns but history documents that the vast majority of prostitutes are women and the vast majority of customers are men- thus the pronouns are reflective of historical practice.

It won't be legalized because it would decrease the back ways these big time politicians, religous leaders and rich business guys get theirs. By legalizing it, it could be taxed and refulated, making it safer, but also making it less discrete and those aholes mentioned above all have secret pussy on the side. I don't get why kraft just doesn't say I paid at the door for a massage and that is it, when I got in there we both, being adults, found eachother very attractive and had consensual sex. No money changed hands for that. Oh and I did get the massage, for what I paid for. Thats what I'd say. The police want to shame guys. Where if we make it legal educate people especially in US, sex is needed, nothing wrong with it. I admit to my family that since my wife died 12 yrs ago, I've been to AMPs and have seen escorts. Only a couple of them had issues, and those were becuase they've watched too much tv. LOL. Hell when my son turned 21 I took him to an AMP in Boston. I'm going to still go to gg or bo soon amd hopefully their prices go down.

[MCOlocal]

I was thinking, I You are on a MP and at the time of the negotiation you tell the provider that you will give her a Monetary gift or Donation. Is that will get you off the hook with uncle LEO?

Let me know your feedback.

MCOlocal.

[KalaFina]

You're on point on the apartment part even though they could easily lie about the income but the car part is a negative, the ones who work in the same state for years have their own car and house if you know of one who doesn't that means they came from a different state, they don't like to spend money but they do spend it in houses and cars designer clothes etc if they reside in one state, then later on if they want to get into another type of business after making enough they choose CA or NY for the most part downtown areas are the best you can find ex providers running different types of businesses.

Not likely they were actual trafficking victims--possible, but not very likely. It's pretty rare in actual massage parlors. All this stuff about the girls not having their own transportation and sleeping in the spas--true. But it's because the girls don't want to buy cars and they don't want to spend money on apartments, plus it being difficult for them to actually rent an apartment without a job and income that they want to put down on a rental application. Most actual of the actual sex trafficking is in hotels and private residences.

[KalaFina]

There are cases like this one that you can find if you look for them I've seen quite a couple but I don't remember the dates or names to post every single one, even journalists do this you know.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/81315165-157.html

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/coconut-creek/fl-coconut-creek-yacobellis-fired-20150227-story.html

With all due respect to Kalafina, I'm not buying this explanation. The police claim to have high quality video depicting the exchange of money for sexual acts. Once you have one or two cases, why wait another 8 months before taking action to "rescue" the women from sex trafficking and to bust the traffickers? There is another more plausible explanation-- the police were collecting evidence to bust a larger group of customers, maybe even waiting for a high profile customer, so they could publish embarrassing photos of men who were accused but not yet found guilty of a crime (whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty? Whatever happened to the "protect and serve" motto for police?

If the police and the politicians were truly interested in putting a dent into human trafficking, they would push to make prostitution legal, safe and regulated. This would provide women who were willing to provide sexual services for pay with a safe place to ply their freely chosen profession (and yes, some women would freely choose this line of work, especially when compared with alternative sources of employment). Legalized prostitution would also provide men with a safe and legal alternative for seeking sexual services. Legalizing prostitution would undercut the economic motivation that drives human trafficking (in somewhat the same way that the 21st Amendment repealed Prohibition and undercut the economic motivation for illegally produced alcohol, much of which was dangerous for the consumer (check the history books on Al Capone and bootleggers). There is a reason that prostitution is the wold's oldest profession-- you aren't going to prevent men from being interested in sex, no matter how many "johns" you bust and how many mug shots you publish in the news media. Why not experiment with a different approach and make prostitution safe, legal and regulated? This would afford the female sex workers that same employee rights and protections as would be applied in any business sector and also provide a legal alternative where otherwise law abiding men would direct their spending for sexual services.

Of course, efforts to legalize prostitution would could provoke the ire of religious leaders who want to impose their morals about sex on others. But given the number of churches that are embroiled in sex scandals, I suggest that it is time to rethink the role of religion as it pertains to sex. Said another way, don't impose your values on others until you clean up your own house, and don't expect to clean up your own house until you recognize that sex is a basic human need, nearly on the same level as food and water.

The focus should be on preventing human trafficking (forcing another person into provide labor, be it sexual or otherwise), not on preventing sex between consenting adults, even if money (or other valuables) is exchanged in the sexual service.

Note: I know it is politically correct to use gender neutral pronouns but history documents that the vast majority of prostitutes are women and the vast majority of customers are men- thus the pronouns are reflective of historical practice.

[Jokester1]

It's a process brother they can't just bust the doors open and arrest people left and right, think like a cop mate, if they do that chances are the girls will be taken back by their handlers because 1 they are the ones keeping the girls I'd info etc, and 2 they don't have a place to go (not a deal breaker), but also if they do this imagine the amount of criminals (think like a cop) who will get away and continue to fuck the trafficking victims. They need solid proof that the owners are involved and that they are aware of what's happening inside the shop to close it or they could just say they didn't know anything and then kick the girls bring a new set and it's fucky and sucky all over again and about the properties have you read the news about previous things found in owners houses? Or do you know anyone who has been involved in said type of arrest? I mean in some occasions naked girls have been found inside owners houses with customers inside waiting their turn as I stated before this shouldn't be something new to most of us trafficking victims don't stay in the same place for too long but 6 months is the earliest amount of time needed to gather as much intel as they can if they don't then detaining the would mean nothing and it would just be a waste of time.

Not likely they were actual trafficking victims--possible, but not very likely. It's pretty rare in actual massage parlors. All this stuff about the girls not having their own transportation and sleeping in the spas--true. But it's because the girls don't want to buy cars and they don't want to spend money on apartments, plus it being difficult for them to actually rent an apartment without a job and income that they want to put down on a rental application. Most actual of the actual sex trafficking is in hotels and private residences.

[SevenYearMitch]

SYM,

I got your point and I don't disagree. Heck, if I had that kind of money I would probably do exactly what you stated in your post.

My point and I think it is valid, there is always the thrill of the unknown. I get the "Fish in a barrel" comment, but when you go to a AMP, or see a provider for the first time there is always a little uncertainty / unknown and that is what I am talking about.

Anyway, not really worth arguing about. There was no slight intended in my post. In fact I got a good chuckle from yours. Thanks for the post.

Gator.

Thanks Gator, I've actually never been to an AMP so I'll defer to your expertise on the subject. I do agree with your "thrill of the unknown" as one possible explanation for Mr. Kraft's penchant for visiting an AMP. I think it was Forrest Gump who once said: "AMPs are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get. " LOL. Unfortunately these days you might get video surveillance.

SYM.

[Why Try]

Bert didn't die until September 2018. He COULD have had a death bed wish for an Asian Boom Boom Rub Down towards the end. The 8 month timing works out. Just saying.

Grain 56.

I just saw Gator yesterday. If Gator could take down the syndicate then, who better to take down this law enforcement syndicate now?

[Redsox2005]

Why would our LE allow this to go on for 8 months? If we see something we are told to report it, not let it continue for our own benefit. In this country from a young age we are told sex is bad. Why do we call our dick, balls, and pussy "private's? That's our culture in the USA. Sex And nudity are bad. Everything we need in today's society we pay for, and I mean everything, from, food to shelter and everything in between. There is a price for everything. So yea, make it legal and the government can take a cut from that too just like weed.

Sox.

With all due respect to Kalafina, I'm not buying this explanation. The police claim to have high quality video depicting the exchange of money for sexual acts. Once you have one or two cases, why wait another 8 months before taking action to "rescue" the women from sex trafficking and to bust the traffickers? There is another more plausible explanation-- the police were collecting evidence to bust a larger group of customers, maybe even waiting for a high profile customer, so they could publish embarrassing photos of men who were accused but not yet found guilty of a crime (whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty? Whatever happened to the "protect and serve" motto for police?

If the police and the politicians were truly interested in putting a dent into human trafficking, they would push to make prostitution legal, safe and regulated. This would provide women who were willing to provide sexual services for pay with a safe place to ply their freely chosen profession (and yes, some women would freely choose this line of work, especially when compared with alternative sources of employment). Legalized prostitution would also provide men with a safe and legal alternative for seeking sexual services. Legalizing prostitution would undercut the economic motivation that drives human trafficking (in somewhat the same way that the 21st Amendment repealed Prohibition and undercut the economic motivation for illegally produced alcohol, much of which was dangerous for the consumer (check the history books on Al Capone and bootleggers). There is a reason that prostitution is the wold's oldest profession-- you aren't going to prevent men from being interested in sex, no matter how many "johns" you bust and how many mug shots you publish in the news media. Why not experiment with a different approach and make prostitution safe, legal and regulated? This would afford the female sex workers that same employee rights and protections as would be applied in any business sector and also provide a legal alternative where otherwise law abiding men would direct their spending for sexual services.

Of course, efforts to legalize prostitution would could provoke the ire of religious leaders who want to impose their morals about sex on others. But given the number of churches that are embroiled in sex scandals, I suggest that it is time to rethink the role of religion as it pertains to sex. Said another way, don't impose your values on others until you clean up your own house, and don't expect to clean up your own house until you recognize that sex is a basic human need, nearly on the same level as food and water.

The focus should be on preventing human trafficking (forcing another person into provide labor, be it sexual or otherwise), not on preventing sex between consenting adults, even if money (or other valuables) is exchanged in the sexual service.

Note: I know it is politically correct to use gender neutral pronouns but history documents that the vast majority of prostitutes are women and the vast majority of customers are men- thus the pronouns are reflective of historical practice.