"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[BookerTNelson]

I agree. I'm mid-50's, but still considered attractive for my age. I have no problem getting to the FC for 200 or less with my first choices! I have noticed in recent years it has become more difficult with guys willing to pay 400+ per meet, Social Media telling girls they can make lots of money with platonic or online only dating and the fact I am getting older.

It takes more effort than it used to, but with game it can be done.

Here is where having some game makes SA the best. With my first choices, they're always pointing to someone saying they'll do $400+ per meet and when I see their social media's it is full of what I like to call "SB whistling" and them screaming they need someone to show them the way. So when I am talking to them I push back HARD against the $400+ comments and call their bluffs on it because let's be honest. If they were getting $400+ with someone they enjoyed being in the FC with then they wouldn't be entertaining me. Displaying some game has made SA like shooting fish in a barrel for me. Even to the point that after I've ended the arrangement they'll text me or e-mail me asking if they can meet for drinks and a good fucking. Shit, sometimes I even just send a quick flirt on Social media and it turns out well.

[OliverNP]

I'm very aware that I'll infect this girl with GPS if I'm able to seal the deal for 1 k and it's very unfortunate because I'd only see her once for that much $. She just happened to be my very first target when I got started with this hobby so I don't think I'll be content until I reach that goal. Unfortunately for me she won't respond to texts / messages from me at all so I think I'll just have to accept defeat. The site is just so full or 22-25 yo girls that are seasoned in the bowl and I've grown bored of them and the number of 18-19 yo that are interested in anything physical is just so limited. Every 18-19 yo I message either doesn't read the message or just wants a platonic relationship and to sell pics / vids. Edit: I just noticed you quoted me about Mia and not Lily. I paid Mia 4$ each of the 3 times I met her. Not 1k.

She's doing you a favor by not responding if you're willing to pay 1 k to bang a girl. You wouldn't feel the sense of closure that you're looking for, you would only feel buyer's remorse eventually, and at very best you'd look back on the experience and laugh at all the things you regret doing when you were learning the hobby.

Not only is there not a vagina on this planet that's worth 1 k, but giving them that kind of money is really putting the SD in a subordinate position under the SB.

Monetarily, every SB wants an SD who is willing to give them everything they ask for and more. Sexually, most of them want to be dominated by a ambitious, successful older male who got where he is in life by not being a chump and not caving into the demands of women, but by knowing what he wants and knowing how to get it. So there is a bit of a conflict there, and this is the ironic nature of women. Hot young females often find themselves caught between these two conflicting sets of wants (or needs) and not knowing which one to pursue unless something persuades them one way or another.

Its up to you as an SD whether to be the chump that caves into high-money demands, or to be the one that meets that sexual need. There's no way to be both simultaneously, regardless of what they say.

[OliverNP]

No, to me the difference is not price. It's actually incredible value done correctly because the same number of FC's from SA should cost about the same as FC's with working girls, for an experience that is 100 times better. No the drawback to SA TIME. This takes a ton of effort. An absolute ton. And time has value too.

That's the thing. Pussy has a cost, and with SBs the real cost is time (and for me hotel rooms). If I place a dollar amount, per hour on what I spend on a girl it is somewhere between $25-50 an hour depending on the girl and what sort of chemistry we have. Sometimes they want to spend more time with me than I do them, sometimes they are headed home after a second round of fucking while I really wanted a third round.

But if I truly summed up the amount of overall effort I put into this, and put a dollar amount on time, compared it to their rate of earnings per hour. Then they are making out like bandits! Getting paid to have a good time at a rate that their time just isn't worth yet at that age, being enabled to do all the naughty shit they want to do without fear of their friends finding out. Then go shopping afterwards. How I envy young people.

We're both having fun but I'm not sure the SDs are winning.

If your time is valuable by the hour, escorts are a much better value I'm sure. I just never was a fuck-for-an-hour-then-bye kinda guy.

I enjoy reflecting on some of the memories I've made with SBs, and that's how I justify the hobby.

[ItsAHobby45]

Anyone have intel on this SB?

Sexy_Serena11 - https://www.seeking.com/member/01633...a-f876d265730b.

Feel free to PM me or share here. Good either way. Thanks in advance fellas.

Her pictures on SA are better than she actually looks. Her body is nice but she's not very pretty. If you are flexible with your time she can host when her multiple roommates aren't home. $$ is what I paid and she requires protection for anything below the waist. She seems extremely experienced even though she claims she's new to this. I didn't repeat.

[TomDickNHarry]

I agree the main cost of SA is it is a time suck. However, since it is a time suck for everyone that cancels out as a cost increasing variable. FC costs are also pretty consistent for everyone as well. Therefore, the only variable directly affecting an increase in SA overall costs is what we choose to ppm. That is what my post is addressing.

My last sentence summed it up well in that for the price the pussy on SA is much better and more enjoyable. My overall rate is something like $40/ hr (includes FC costs, food and ppm). Then again, I choose SBs who want fun, not just sex, so they stick around a long time. I do not do car dates or a quick trip to the FC and leave. For each SB, I have spent a good long afternoon or the major part of an evening into early morning and get to hit it at least twice.

Quoted yours b / c it was a good summation of the difference between escorts and sugar babies. I'm meaning to chime into the post about it being more expensive, than escorts, it definitely is not if you know what you're doing. It might even be cheaper, and while the time involved can be taxing, the experience is in a different galaxy than with the pros. If you can afford the time, it's a no brainer, will get you much better experiences for similar money.

[AssLuVA]

Anyone have intel on this SB?

Sexy_Serena11 - https://www.seeking.com/member/01633...a-f876d265730b.

Feel free to PM me or share here. Good either way. Thanks in advance fellas.

[HappyHunter44]

No, to me the difference is not price. It's actually incredible value done correctly because the same number of FC's from SA should cost about the same as FC's with working girls, for an experience that is 100 times better. No the drawback to SA TIME. This takes a ton of effort. An absolute ton. And time has value too.

I agree the main cost of SA is it is a time suck. However, since it is a time suck for everyone that cancels out as a cost increasing variable. FC costs are also pretty consistent for everyone as well. Therefore, the only variable directly affecting an increase in SA overall costs is what we choose to ppm. That is what my post is addressing.

My last sentence summed it up well in that for the price the pussy on SA is much better and more enjoyable. My overall rate is something like $40/ hr (includes FC costs, food and ppm). Then again, I choose SBs who want fun, not just sex, so they stick around a long time. I do not do car dates or a quick trip to the FC and leave. For each SB, I have spent a good long afternoon or the major part of an evening into early morning and get to hit it at least twice.

[TomDickNHarry]

I suppose it can depend on your area, but done correctly SA is not more expensive than the escort scene here judging by that board. They're paying $$ for an hour or less in most cases, which is similar what I pay ongoing gals for multiple hours. When you consider the quality difference, the idea that I can get longer for the same price makes it a much better value. Those girls are not that attractive, older, and most are druggies here. Yes if someone is on SA and agreeing to $$ and you only keep them 45 minutes for one pop I can see how they find it expensive but that's their approach.

No, to me the difference is not price. It's actually incredible value done correctly because the same number of FC's from SA should cost about the same as FC's with working girls, for an experience that is 100 times better. No the drawback to SA TIME. This takes a ton of effort. An absolute ton. And time has value too.

On a per hour / value of pussy basis, the SBs are multiple times less expensive. Even at $$ or $$$, a pro would give you like 45 minutes to 1 hr max. SBs easily stay 3-4 hours and fuck you 3 times.

Therefore, I do think it is kind of comparing apples to oranges; yes, both are fruits, but completely different experiences for the money. At least for me, the SBs are a much higher value and higher pussy enjoyment overall, as none feel like a pro / escort transaction and the session lasts for hrs.

[TomDickNHarry]

There has been some discussion on here about whether to treat these girls like dates, or whether your interaction is different. I would like to offer my views. I try to project a mix of several personas. One is a date. Not a good guy, earnest kind of date that they could see a long term relationship with, but a "bad boy" who clearly wants to get in their pants, is leaving town next week, but is hell of lot of fun in the meantime. Another persona I think of as that high school gym teacher or coach that made them kind of nervous because they weren't sure if he was checking their ass out, but they still liked him and wanted his approval. The third is an authority figure, like a professor or a boss. They clearly want his approval and aren't sure if they are good enough to get it. So I sort of cycle back and forth between these personas and keep them off balance. For example, I don't hesitate to offer value judgments on their life choices or to tell them what they should do. This is something the bad boy date would never do. Conversely, after a glass or two of wine I don't hide it I am looking down their blouse or checking their ass when they get up to go to the bathroom. This is something their professor or boss (usually) doesn't want to be seen doing. Finally, of course, is Daddy. An enormous percentage, maybe all, of these girls have daddy issues. I don't want to act like THEIR daddy, of course. The incest angle creeps me out. But I am a real daddy, and I talk about how my kids get a lot of attention and opportunities. I make it clear that they come before nay sugar daddy activities. I want to seem like the daddy they wish they had had, so they will crave my attention and approval. And we ll know how they can get my attention and approval, right?

Thanks for sharing, our experiences are really really similar from top to bottom. The above part of this great post is what I found the most interesting b / c I've been handling many of them this way and switching between almost the exact same personas, without realizing the different roles I'm playing. That's not to say it's something that came naturally, it didn't at all, it's more been a process of just repeating and refining what seems to work over many girls and many years.

[HappyHunter44]

I agree. I'm mid-50's, but still considered attractive for my age. I have no problem getting to the FC for 200 or less with my first choices! I have noticed in recent years it has become more difficult with guys willing to pay 400+ per meet, Social Media telling girls they can make lots of money with platonic or online only dating and the fact I am getting older.

It takes more effort than it used to, but with game it can be done.

This is dead on.

One thing about SBs is they are all different re motives. I specifically scope out girls who are not there just for the money. I can tell which girls are there for the thrill, companionship, or they are just plain tired of guys their age. Those SBs are not motivated solely by the money. Bottomline, many are tired of giving it away for free to younger guys who treat them bad. Plus, the young guys do not know how to fuck them well.

You are correct. Social Media is selling these girls a bunch of nonsense. Yes, SDs exist who pay exorbitant amounts, but they are in very limited in supply. Unless the girl is beyond awesome, he might see once or twice. However, that is very different than getting a steady SD or a stream of SDs over time to pay that. Very few SBs ever get to that level. I told a couple who quoted me (w / out my prompting) 4 and 5 bills. I told them get back to me when they are more reasonable. A month later after I am off the site, guess who I get 2 texts from? They never found those regular SDs at that rate. But, I had already moved on with better, nicer prospects at 1 bill ppm, so they were not even worth the 2 bills they wanted now.

[Madaboutmax]

All I'll say is that If you're a decent looking guy and relatively young, your cost per meet should be lower than 200.

I agree. I'm mid-50's, but still considered attractive for my age. I have no problem getting to the FC for 200 or less with my first choices! I have noticed in recent years it has become more difficult with guys willing to pay 400+ per meet, Social Media telling girls they can make lots of money with platonic or online only dating and the fact I am getting older.

It takes more effort than it used to, but with game it can be done.

[Truncated]

I'm not sure that this is a hobby that I'd consider inexpensive to participate in. I'm sure there are ways to save money here and there but from what I've learned in my short 7 ish weeks is you have to pay to play. Rough numbers here but I had 14 meeting at a FC with 7 girls ranging from 19-22 yo in 6 weeks and have spent about 4200 in total between the girls and hotel rooms and SA membership. 3 of the girls provided the FC so there was no cost involved for those. I don't meet these girls anywhere except the FC so there have been no lunch / dinner / coffee expenses. The one I did meet at tropical smoothie I didn't ever get to the FC. I have bought a couple of the girls a vibrator because they said they never owned one and agreed to toy play during the meeting.

You also have to look at the time that is involved as time is money. I'm a relatively young and decent looking guy and it takes a ton of time to convince these girls to meet you. I've messaged hundreds of girls within 100 miles of Richmond and spent many hours talking to the ones that message back. Sure you'll find one that will agree to meet you in the first 10 texts but those are really just pros advertising on SA. I know one guy recently said he is only paying $ on average for his sb's per meet but in my experience, the 18-22 yo sb's aren't interested in anything less than $250 per meet and it's usually higher. I'm basically just saying that this is much harder and more expensive than calling up a escort or pro.

When I first joined Seeking, which was many years ago, I overpaid to meet some SBs. I remember giving one really hot SB four figures for CIM. It was worth it, but I'm sure I could have gotten it for $$ if I was thinking with the big head.

I also chased hot ones who were far away from me.

Over time, I've gotten better at being s SD, including realizing that it's never worth driving more than 30 minutes to see a SB. Even better, just offer them some extra cash to drive to you if you want to see a specific one who is far away. If they show up, great. If not, you don't waste your time and feel like a jackass for driving 1. 5 hours to be ghosted.

Most of these SBs are deeply damaged, on psych meds, and / or in deep financial and personal trouble. The kind of people who win the lottery and are bankrupt a year later. Don't invest too much time or thought into why they do what they do. Many are delusional about their worth. But will come back to reality of you are somewhat attractive to them and they need money.

No matter what anyone tells you, most of these SBs will go to the FC with you for $ to $$$ depending on hotness and desperation and sanity. There are far more SBs than SDs. If you are younger and attractive, $ is totally possible PPM.

[Hal1957]

Even if you're not that young, 150 to 250 is pretty good for 2-4 hours of fun with a fresh flower under 30. And guys my age have plenty of time to invest in the chase.

All I'll say is that If you're a decent looking guy and relatively young, your cost per meet should be lower than 200.

[BookerTNelson]

I'm not sure that this is a hobby that I'd consider inexpensive to participate in. I'm sure there are ways to save money here and there but from what I've learned in my short 7 ish weeks is you have to pay to play. Rough numbers here but I had 14 meeting at a FC with 7 girls ranging from 19-22 yo in 6 weeks and have spent about 4200 in total between the girls and hotel rooms and SA membership. 3 of the girls provided the FC so there was no cost involved for those. I don't meet these girls anywhere except the FC so there have been no lunch / dinner / coffee expenses. The one I did meet at tropical smoothie I didn't ever get to the FC. I have bought a couple of the girls a vibrator because they said they never owned one and agreed to toy play during the meeting.

You also have to look at the time that is involved as time is money. I'm a relatively young and decent looking guy and it takes a ton of time to convince these girls to meet you. I've messaged hundreds of girls within 100 miles of Richmond and spent many hours talking to the ones that message back. Sure you'll find one that will agree to meet you in the first 10 texts but those are really just pros advertising on SA. I know one guy recently said he is only paying $ on average for his sb's per meet but in my experience, the 18-22 yo sb's aren't interested in anything less than $250 per meet and it's usually higher. I'm basically just saying that this is much harder and more expensive than calling up a escort or pro.

All I'll say is that If you're a decent looking guy and relatively young, your cost per meet should be lower than 200.

[HappyHunter44]

I'm basically just saying that this is much harder and more expensive than calling up a escort or pro.

Please allow me to give a slightly different perspective:

I do think this is accurate only if one is continuously chasing different girls and essentially paying for a one-off experience each time. One-offs are more expensive because one-offs do not afford one scheduling efficiency and to amortize the costs. Plus, it requires the time to get each one.

I have been at the FC regularly now for a month after my membership paused and have had no additional costs in time, membership fees, and I am getting a better value each time because the SBs stay longer and longer for the same ppm.

On a per hour / value of pussy basis, the SBs are multiple times less expensive. Even at $$ or $$$, a pro would give you like 45 minutes to 1 hr max. SBs easily stay 3-4 hours and fuck you 3 times.

Therefore, I do think it is kind of comparing apples to oranges; yes, both are fruits, but completely different experiences for the money. At least for me, the SBs are a much higher value and higher pussy enjoyment overall, as none feel like a pro / escort transaction and the session lasts for hrs.