"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[DogBert77]

You pay for the stay thru the hotels.com site using the branded gift card. If they ask for a deposit or card for incidentals, give them cash.

Again, you can usually get any SB who is not a student to book the room in her name, give her the gift card to cover and warn her they might swipe a card for deposit. YOU are taking the risk she flakes, not her so she should not complain too much. I've done this with nearly a dozen gals. No real issues. If they don't have a credit or debit card with a $100 to their name, I'd be worried about bigger risks from desparation. Plus, if she has half a brain, she'll understand nothing is being charged.

I have seen signs on the desk at at least a couple of hotels that said debit or credit card is required for check in, and I have asked to pay a cash deposit at a couple of others and been turned down. I tend to patronize fairly nice hotels that are usually part of a chain. The independent places in my area are not really the image that I want to project, plus I live in a large metropolitan area and range over a pretty wide area to get the delectable young pussy I crave. So its not really practical to patronize just one place where I can work out a cash deposit. The chains seem to have pretty well-defined policies on this. I don't give a shit what the desk clerk thinks about me, and doubt that he thinks about it all. I just want to get in the room quickly and without the desk clerk having to hunt down the manager, ask for an exception, maybe ask me questions, etc.

I do have the SB book the room if I have seen her before, and that has worked just fine. But I like to keep refreshing the rotation list, as I am sure most of us do, and it just seems incredibly awkward to ask a new, never before been to FC with me, SB to do this. A lot of the ones I really want are sort of naive, and may never have checked into a hotel themselves before. I want to get them into the FC as smoothly as possible, and fuck them without throwing up any additional roadblocks.

So I think I need to get a debit card with my name on it to use for the deposit, which I guess means a re-loadable one. Someone mentioned an American Express debit card. Like thoughts on that. I want something widely accepted, and to minimize fees if possible. I have great credit but don't want any statements coming to house (should be easy to avoid with paperless option) and also want to avoid a credit inquiry that my wife might see later. I have no experience with debit cards and would like recommendations.

[UKnowWho]

For example, say you agreed with 300 per date for first date, but after the session found her performance less than expected and not want to cont to offer 300 per date, can you re-negotiate a lower allowance with SB? How do you approach this that it doesn't hurt the feelings and chemistry BTW you and the SB.

I've been in that position before, and like you, I couldn't think of any way to say "you're not worth as much as I thought you were" that wouldn't be taken as an insult. I didn't want her to feel insulted, and I expected her company would be less enjoyable after an insult like that, too.

So, I just told her things had changed at work and I wouldn't be able to afford to see her anymore. I wasn't trying to renegotiate, I was breaking it off. A day or two later, she came back offering to cut the rate in half, so I agreed, and she wasn't insulted since it was her idea.

I'd seen her a few times before this happened, though, not just one time, and that may make a difference.

[EvilTmp]

It's your money. Just tell her what you have in mind and if she's not happy with it, walk away. You're not doing nuclear fusion here for christ's sake. Man up and stop being afraid of what she'll think or do.

Hey guys,

This is the question has beening lingering around my head recenrtly. Is that possible to re negotiate the allowance amount after FC visit?

For example, say you agreed with 300 per date for first date, but after the session found her performance less than expected and not want to cont to offer 300 per date, can you re-negotiate a lower allowance with SB? How do you approach this that it doesn't hurt the feelings and chemistry BTW you and the SB.

[FarFarAway]

Hey guys,

This is the question has beening lingering around my head recenrtly. Is that possible to re negotiate the allowance amount after FC visit?

For example, say you agreed with 300 per date for first date, but after the session found her performance less than expected and not want to cont to offer 300 per date, can you re-negotiate a lower allowance with SB? How do you approach this that it doesn't hurt the feelings and chemistry BTW you and the SB.

There's a well-known phenomenon in pricing, known as anchoring. People are psychologically resistant to change once an expectation is established. This is proven true in real estate, for example. Bigger listing prices led to bigger selling prices in homes that were comparable. Read the great books by Nobel economist Dan Kahnemann on this score.

In my specific case, I made a serious mistake in an initial meet w / a totally hot Russian MILF, who turned out to be the ideal SB, but was just too much $ for me. I tried to plead her down w / saying that I had had business setbacks and couldn't afford the sugar I'd been giving her. She never said 'meet less often,' or agree to less per meet. Just ' oh, I really like you, we could just have lunch instead'.

[Statecho]

Hey guys,

This is the question has beening lingering around my head recenrtly. Is that possible to re negotiate the allowance amount after FC visit?

For example, say you agreed with 300 per date for first date, but after the session found her performance less than expected and not want to cont to offer 300 per date, can you re-negotiate a lower allowance with SB? How do you approach this that it doesn't hurt the feelings and chemistry BTW you and the SB.

[Mark User]

I use a couple different hotels in the area. With a little salesmanship and conversation with a hotel owner, Not a big chain but a clean locally owned hotel you can create an arrangement where you call with little notice and get a nice clean room for a discount cash price. I call, go by and give the cash and pick up a key no paperwork. I only use the room for a few hours. I leave the key in the room and I move on. Indian or oriental seems to work the best and I am not talking about inner city dumps. Clean non smoking rooms.

Not from the area but drive through often, and would like to find such an arrangement. But how does one search for such a place without going door-to-door? If you have found some good places, please share! Thanks in Advance!

[Bald Eagle]

I use a couple different hotels in the area. With a little salesmanship and conversation with a hotel owner, Not a big chain but a clean locally owned hotel you can create an arrangement where you call with little notice and get a nice clean room for a discount cash price. I call, go by and give the cash and pick up a key no paperwork. I only use the room for a few hours. I leave the key in the room and I move on. Indian or oriental seems to work the best and I am not talking about inner city dumps. Clean non smoking rooms.

[Ernest Ll]

Can you elaborate on the Hotels.com deposit? Are you saying that if you book through Hotels.com any participating hotel will know that they have agreed to accept a deposit in cash? Or are you saying that you can use a $100 Hotels.com gift card at any hotel booked through Hotels.com? I am a skeptical that all the desks clerks will know this. Is this something you can do online in advance? Also, I usually can only play in the day so use Dayuse.com a lot. Any input on deposits that is more generally applicable is appreciated.

You pay for the stay thru the hotels.com site using the branded gift card. If they ask for a deposit or card for incidentals, give them cash.

Again, you can usually get any SB who is not a student to book the room in her name, give her the gift card to cover and warn her they might swipe a card for deposit. YOU are taking the risk she flakes, not her so she should not complain too much. I've done this with nearly a dozen gals. No real issues. If they don't have a credit or debit card with a $100 to their name, I'd be worried about bigger risks from desparation. Plus, if she has half a brain, she'll understand nothing is being charged.

[Zcochran00]

First time caller, long time listener.

Let me first say I've been reading through this amazing thread for a few months in my spare time. I am around page 730. Obviously I have a ways to go, but I have been taking notes as I've gone. It is interesting to see the ebb and flow of everyone. Grand Daddy Lit2, F Scott, Nando, Revvo, SubCmdr. Pretty entertaining, and above all, informative! I compare those to the giant's whose shoulders we stand upon. Please, don't let me know if they are still around because that will spoil the surprise.

So, I got a bit ahead of myself after doing some basic math and realizing that I wouldn't get caught up until 2020 and signed up for SA.

My first night I had an SB contact me, agree to a M&G that same night with the possibility of a trip to the FC. Maybe a UTR, but exhilarating nonetheless. Unfortunately, I was a few drinks in and no condition to go anywhere so I passed. I also screwed up the negotiation, and while it wasn't out of my price range, it was darn near the top. I understand if you have money this is easy, but what is the fun in that?

Re-reading through my notes and through the "archive" thread I realized that a big gap in my understanding is something terribly basic. What is the purpose of your profile and what should go in there?

I'm partial to HG's explanation in his 4 step email process that what we are trying to do is initiate an off-site line of communication, pre-qualify them based on what you're looking for, and agree to at least a M&G if everything checks out.

The initial contact has them going to your profile and then emailing you if they like what they see. I understand that the general purpose it to convert profile views to emails in the inbox, but not much has been said about the contents, outside of don't be explicit or crude. Should it be short and sweet? Generalizations of what is in your pre-qualifying emails? Some fantasy pie in the sky BS like the SBs?

I'm trying to understand where in the puzzle the profile fits.

Anyway, that's it for now. I look forward to contributing to this great piece of internet history.

I started off with HG's approach for contacting, but I've since simplified it down conceptually:

- If contacting them first: hey, saw your profile, seems like we're both looking for something NSA and beneficial. Check out my profile and get back to me.

- What are your main reasons for being on here?

- I'm looking for something fun, intimate, with a connection, and I can help out. Interested?

If yes, then here's my contact info.

The actual paragraphs I use are noticeably longer than that, but that's the basic message.

My profile itself actually a straight-up legit description of my personality and interests. Not overly detailed, but long enough to show I'm an actual person with some depth to me.

Not going to say that either of these is the "right" way to do things, and my success rate isn't anywhere as high as some of the folks who have posted in this thread, but I'm a pretty straightforward kind of guy and that's how I've approached it. FWIW, I _have_ had a number of contacts saying "I really liked your profile".

[Walruscl]

I know this comes around every few months, and partially my fault. As background, after having my LTSB of 5 years leave me on a whim last summer, my depression had me losing weight like crazy, and I upped my workout routine accordingly. 20 lbs later and with a definitively better-than-dad-bod physique, I am seeing at least some intangibles.

Data point one: fairly early in my current SB's relationship I asked how old I looked. I'm low-50's but she pegged me for mid-forties. When I asked about my personality, she pegged mid-30's. Which to me it meant wisdom and experience without be dragged down by age.

Data point two: recently was invited to my SB's burlesque show where she would have friends, her GF, and even her dad there. Obviously interacting with dear-old-only-two-years-older-than-me dad was not an option. And dear-old-dad has only two years on me but looks ten years older. But I saw the interaction where my SB pointed me out of the crowd to her GF. Later I would find out that the verdict was that "he's cute!

A bit off-topic, but I just got back from a FetLife Kink / Swinger event. Lots of older, unattractive folk there, but at least the equipment works. Also have to have a new kind of game where the play is the networking and building relationships with the leaders of each tribe. Decided to pursue (with some promise) one of the more attractive ones, which sadly isn't saying much. But she wanted to know how old I was, and I told her (she's an even 50) and the response was "Wow! You're older than me! So I asked her to peg my age, and she guessed low 40's.

This is the benefit of hitting the gym, losing the 20 lbs. , paying attention to your clothing and hairstyle. All these things can literally subtract ten years off your looks. And in the bowl, while you have lots of POTS attracted to older guys, no need to push the envelope on that. You want the older gentlemen to be the demeanor in which you treat her, while projecting as youthful and virile vibe as possible.

[Cruzier1]

First time caller, long time listener.

Let me first say I've been reading through this amazing thread for a few months in my spare time. I am around page 730. Obviously I have a ways to go, but I have been taking notes as I've gone. It is interesting to see the ebb and flow of everyone. Grand Daddy Lit2, F Scott, Nando, Revvo, SubCmdr. Pretty entertaining, and above all, informative! I compare those to the giant's whose shoulders we stand upon. Please, don't let me know if they are still around because that will spoil the surprise.

So, I got a bit ahead of myself after doing some basic math and realizing that I wouldn't get caught up until 2020 and signed up for SA.

My first night I had an SB contact me, agree to a M&G that same night with the possibility of a trip to the FC. Maybe a UTR, but exhilarating nonetheless. Unfortunately, I was a few drinks in and no condition to go anywhere so I passed. I also screwed up the negotiation, and while it wasn't out of my price range, it was darn near the top. I understand if you have money this is easy, but what is the fun in that?

Re-reading through my notes and through the "archive" thread I realized that a big gap in my understanding is something terribly basic. What is the purpose of your profile and what should go in there?

I'm partial to HG's explanation in his 4 step email process that what we are trying to do is initiate an off-site line of communication, pre-qualify them based on what you're looking for, and agree to at least a M&G if everything checks out.

The initial contact has them going to your profile and then emailing you if they like what they see. I understand that the general purpose it to convert profile views to emails in the inbox, but not much has been said about the contents, outside of don't be explicit or crude. Should it be short and sweet? Generalizations of what is in your pre-qualifying emails? Some fantasy pie in the sky BS like the SBs?

I'm trying to understand where in the puzzle the profile fits.

Anyway, that's it for now. I look forward to contributing to this great piece of internet history.

[DogBert77]

As opposed to the cost of your wife finding a hotel charge on your credit card statement. Don't be Penny wise, and pounding-Sugar-Babies foolish.

So you're more concerned about how some 20 something front desk dope -- who doesn't care if you are fucking goats, so long as you don't ruin the sheets or smoke in your room -- views you vs the risk of having your wife find a transaction somewhere becasue that same dope was distracted watching youtube and ran your card 3 x by mistake? But at least you feel like a fine upstanding citizen in the eyes of Joe Hampton Inn while you drill three holes of a girl half your age for money and your wife none the wiser. For now. Puleez.

Ernie,

You sure have a way with words. I do have this tendency to be penny wise and pounding foolish. Point well taken. If a POT needs another drink to get in the mood, no sweat. But I am used to getting all sorts of perks and upgrades on travel, so having to pay for debit card grates on me. And being out $150 due to lack of security really chafes my ass. But I take your point. One minor point, just for the record. Any girl half my age is over the hill! I only go for the young ones.

Can you elaborate on the Hotels.com deposit? Are you saying that if you book through Hotels.com any participating hotel will know that they have agreed to accept a deposit in cash? Or are you saying that you can use a $100 Hotels.com gift card at any hotel booked through Hotels.com? I am a skeptical that all the desks clerks will know this. Is this something you can do online in advance? Also, I usually can only play in the day so use Dayuse.com a lot. Any input on deposits that is more generally applicable is appreciated.

[FarFarAway]

Responding to the thread generally, don't be penny-wise and pound foolish. It is a cost of being in the bowl that you might lose a little $ at times from a deposit charged against a card that wasn't refunded after you pay cash. I made this mistake, keeping a receipt to 'prove' I had paid the cash (while SO out of town) at a FC hotel, then forgetting about it. It turned up later and nearly cost the king his kingdom.

I used to have a AmEx debit card, reloadable, I used for hotel deposits, and never really had to reload it. Many hotels require something like that, w / your realname on it, not a prepaid debit card, for deposits. However, when I had to go totally submarine on the hotels, I closed that account. Now, the SB gets the room or we don't FC.

Just an analogy. So you go to the drugstore for condoms, they don't have 3-packs of your favorite brand, they only have 12-packs. So you spring for the dozen, then you take the extras home afterward for the 'next time' . Right? LOL.

[Ernest Ll]

One other thing with respect to hotels to be aware of and consider. I have gotten Christmas cards and thank you notes from hotels in the Hilton family at the address on file after a stay. Luckily the cards and notes were for business related travel but it did cause me to change the address on file to my office.

When you book on Hotels.com or other OTA, you don't put in your address but the front desk will take it off your license. Two ways to prevent -- 1 - ask them to put in your business address since this is a business expense. 2 - give them a phony address altogether with the same excuse.

When you book through a hotel brand site, you can pay using generic gift cards, and can put in any address you want. When you check in and they check I'd, if they ask about the discrepancy, tell them "I've moved but haven't updated my license" or "that's the office address on my Res".

NEVER try to earn points on a sugar hotel stay -- another reason to have your regular SB do the booking. Mine used Hotels.com and got a free fuck stay for us after 10 sugar sessions.

[Ernest Ll]

Hotels are definitely one of the biggest risks to operational security. I have gotten into the habit of reserving them in my real name, either through Dayuse.com or Hotels.com. When I check in, I show my driver's license and give them a Platinum American Express card. I tell them I will pay with cash, either on check or check out. Some of them place a hold on the credit card for the whole price of the room plus $50 for incidentals, others only do the $50 for incidentals. All of them accept cash for the room without issues, although sometimes they have to hunt around for change since no one uses cash anymore. The hold is always removed, sometimes immediately, sometimes it takes up to five days. Until it is removed, it shows as a "pending charge" on my account, then it disappears completely. While it is showing pending, it creates a security risk, but only I have online access to the account so this has not been a problem (yet).

Anotehr reason for using Hotels.com. You can give them a $100 cash deposit for incidentals on check in. Again, if you find the right SB, you can give her the Hotels.com card number, have her book in her name and give her card for incidentals for which their will be none.

Recently I stayed at a Hilton affiliate using the above procedure, at a hotel I had used before and it worked fine the previous time. This time, a few days after my stay, instead of clearing the pending charge on my account, they charged it. I think whoever did that immediately realized they screwed up, and tried again, which resulted in them charging it again. Then they gave me a credit in the same amount, again doing it twice. The net result is no charge, but a paper trail on the statement that is a flashing neon sign for the warden. I intercepted the paper statement before my wife saw it, and have changed my settings to paperless. But my wife has been in the habit of paying all our bills, as she is more reliable at doing this on time than I am. So this will be a change in process that may itself be a red flag.

The same sort of red flag can result if there is any charge that you don't clear at check out, like a move, music or wifi in the room. So using a credit card definitely carries risk.

Changing to Estatments does not matter if she logs into the account and looks at charges as my wife has done when looking to return something. Again, gift cards. Many hotels won't accept generic gift cards at check in due to high incidences of fraud.

I like the idea of paying with gift cards, and especially Ernest Li's suggestion for Hotels.com gift cards at 5% off. But I have a couple of issues I would like you guys' input on. (1) Gift cards seem inherently less secure than a credit card. Anyone who gets your number can basically drain it, and I am not sure how cooperative the issuer is going to be in giving you a chargeback.

As opposed to the cost of your wife finding a hotel charge on your credit card statement. Don't be Penny wise, and pounding-Sugar-Babies foolish.

C.

(2) Some hotels have signs saying that if you use a debit card for the deposit, it may take much longer for the refund to be processed as compared to a credit card, again up to 60-90 days. I am curious as to other guys experience with this.

Up to, is just covering their ass in legalese. Again, do everythign possible to avoid any electronic transactions to account linkable to you.

(3) This is kind of hard to pin down, but I feel that when you are paying with cash the front desk immediately views you as sort of sketchy, and using a gift card for the deposit is only going to make that worse. When I use a solid credit card, I feel that it sort of smooths the whole transaction. Again, this is just feeling, and I can't really point to anything concrete.

So you're more concerned about how some 20 something front desk dope -- who doesn't care if you are fucking goats, so long as you don't ruin the sheets or smoke in your room -- views you vs the risk of having your wife find a transaction somewhere becasue that same dope was distracted watching youtube and ran your card 3 x by mistake? But at least you feel like a fine upstanding citizen in the eyes of Joe Hampton Inn while you drill three holes of a girl half your age for money and your wife none the wiser. For now. Puleez.