"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[Dandy Don]

It's been years since I used POF, but to the best of my knowledge it does have "age matching" features that will typically make it challenging to contact girls if you are outside of the age range they've specified being interested in. Pretty much all the civy dating sites do this in one way or another, otherwise the young hot ones would get flooded with hits from guys outside their range, and that's not good for business because it frustrates them into avoiding the site. Some of them only limit your search results to women for which your profile meets their requirements, and some of them even block messages -- POF may be one of the latter, I simply don't remember.

One thing you can try to do is create a profile that takes 15 years or so off your age, then simply come out in your intro letter and explain what you're looking for. Do not expect a high level of response from this approach, in fact it's going to be a fraction of your response rate from SA and some might flat out tell you to fuck off. Don't get discouraged -- civy sites are very different from the SD sites. You might find girls on POF that subconsciously want to be an SB but have not really given it enough consideration yet. Your note propositioning her might get the mental juices flowing. She may not respond at all, but in a few weeks you may see her on one of the SD sites. So if nothing else it does help to recruit new SBs. So, even if it looks like you're not getting results, you may actually be benefiting by an increase in female membership on the SD sites in your area.

I found some good stuff on POF several years back -- I wasn't SB hunting, it was free pussy costing me only maybe dinner and drinks -- but it didn't come easy. Lots of requests sent out, many of whom never respond at all. All it takes is that one that rocks your world though.

I thought at first I would play it straight and see what happens but that isn't going so well so far. So probably in another week I will create a more fake profile and take that approach of saying I am younger than trying to explain. I am usually a good talker.

[FotoGuy1970]

After taking a few months leave of absence, I've jumped back into the sugar world. No success yet, but I have several nibbles I'm working on:

CL POT 1: Really nice girl next door type with just a few extra pounds in all the right places. Really interested in the whole SD / SB relationship, but it's been tough to arrange even so much as a M&G with her as she lives 90+ minutes away and still lives with parents. But her communication skills have been solid and she's been giving a GFE through texts so far and she has zero expectations as far as what I would provide to her. The only hurdles will be actually getting to see each other.

CL POT 2: Hot college girl who is financially strapped, so is looking for a SD to help her out. She's really hot, but she's 2 hours away. However, she is willing to meet halfway. We've discussed a possible M&G for next weekend. However, her communication skills are the worst and she admits that. Long, long breaks of silence between text messages, which I hate. Between the distance and the lack of communication, I'm not sure how this one will work out.

SA POT 1: Young hot, sexual blonde with big tits. She has a busy schedule, but we're trying to work it out. She indicated she may be good with skipping the M&G and just going to the FC, which I normally don't like to do. If she's as kinky and wild as she claims to be, she'll be a keeper.

SA POT 2: Had a M&G with this really cute young college girl last night. She liked to talk. She says that she's been in 2 arrangements before and both were mutually beneficial, but so far there hasn't been any discussion of sex, which is a bit of a red flag for me. I've heard the "I've been in mutually beneficial arrangements before!" line in the past, but when it came down to it, the girl was only interested in getting paid and giving nothing in return. I'm kinda worried that that may be the case here. It's been hard to get a bead on her: She seems awkward and uncomfortable and nervous, but I don't know if that was just first meeting nerves. We're supposed to have a lunch date today and "see where it goes", so I guess today will give me a better indication of what to expect from this one. Regardless, the wallet stays closed until we go to the FC.

I have a few other random POTs on SA and CL who have expressed interest, but so far the ones I discussed above are the best / most interesting ones. I will report more when I have more to report.

[JZLizard]

This is a great idea and I created a profile on POF. And sure enough, several girls from SA are on POF. But here's what I have been encountering. Every time I message them I get this automated message: So and So accepts messages only from certain users. Why not message one of your Matches instead? Return to your inbox.

A little research revealed that POF allows users to block messages based on various criteria, including age. I am in my mid-40's and of course I am messaging girls in their 20's. So far, I haven't been able to successfully message anyone under 30. I find it hard to believe that every single woman under 30 that I have message has ruled out older guys, especially if they have profile on SA. So I am led to believe that POF is doing this, but of course I could be wrong.

Anybody else experiencing this?

It's been years since I used POF, but to the best of my knowledge it does have "age matching" features that will typically make it challenging to contact girls if you are outside of the age range they've specified being interested in. Pretty much all the civy dating sites do this in one way or another, otherwise the young hot ones would get flooded with hits from guys outside their range, and that's not good for business because it frustrates them into avoiding the site. Some of them only limit your search results to women for which your profile meets their requirements, and some of them even block messages -- POF may be one of the latter, I simply don't remember.

One thing you can try to do is create a profile that takes 15 years or so off your age, then simply come out in your intro letter and explain what you're looking for. Do not expect a high level of response from this approach, in fact it's going to be a fraction of your response rate from SA and some might flat out tell you to fuck off. Don't get discouraged -- civy sites are very different from the SD sites. You might find girls on POF that subconsciously want to be an SB but have not really given it enough consideration yet. Your note propositioning her might get the mental juices flowing. She may not respond at all, but in a few weeks you may see her on one of the SD sites. So if nothing else it does help to recruit new SBs. So, even if it looks like you're not getting results, you may actually be benefiting by an increase in female membership on the SD sites in your area.

I found some good stuff on POF several years back -- I wasn't SB hunting, it was free pussy costing me only maybe dinner and drinks -- but it didn't come easy. Lots of requests sent out, many of whom never respond at all. All it takes is that one that rocks your world though.

[DogSun]

This is a great idea and I created a profile on POF. And sure enough, several girls from SA are on POF. But here's what I have been encountering. Every time I message them I get this automated message: So and So accepts messages only from certain users. Why not message one of your Matches instead? Return to your inbox.

A little research revealed that POF allows users to block messages based on various criteria, including age. I am in my mid-40's and of course I am messaging girls in their 20's. So far, I haven't been able to successfully message anyone under 30. I find it hard to believe that every single woman under 30 that I have message has ruled out older guys, especially if they have profile on SA. So I am led to believe that POF is doing this, but of course I could be wrong.

Anybody else experiencing this?

For her dating life, she probably wants someone younger, which is why she has the age restriction. Probably not going to be so picky when it comes to sugar. So the solution is simple. Create a new profile and lie about your age. If all you're looking for is a sugar relationship, and the girl is into that, she's not going to care that you're older than your profile states.

[Dandy Don]

Here's something I've used with some success. pof.com It's a free dating site, and you will find women on here that are interested in a sugar relationship. One thing you can do if you're not a paying member for SA, is to sign up for a free membership and look at the women that are active in your area. You'll find more than a few that are also on POF. Once you find them, proposition them on POF and they're usually at least receptive to some negotiating. It's takes more work this way, but if you're not willing to pay the monthly membership fee, it is an option.

This is a great idea and I created a profile on POF. And sure enough, several girls from SA are on POF. But here's what I have been encountering. Every time I message them I get this automated message: So and So accepts messages only from certain users. Why not message one of your Matches instead? Return to your inbox.

A little research revealed that POF allows users to block messages based on various criteria, including age. I am in my mid-40's and of course I am messaging girls in their 20's. So far, I haven't been able to successfully message anyone under 30. I find it hard to believe that every single woman under 30 that I have message has ruled out older guys, especially if they have profile on SA. So I am led to believe that POF is doing this, but of course I could be wrong.

Anybody else experiencing this?

[JZLizard]

In my experience, what makes an SB an SB is that they are selective.

That is pretty much the defining criteria. Where it gets tricky is that there are varying degrees of each type of girl.

The characteristic of a pro is that they will fuck anyone for the right price, and there is no emotional investment on their part. The characteristic of a true SB is that they expect financial help, but they still choose their partners and often get emotionally invested. I personally don't stay with any SB long enough to see how bad it can get, but I've met girls who told me flat out they fell in love with their last SD and they are looking for something similar in their next relationship, it happens.

There are a lot of girls who have daddy issues or for whatever reason are genuinely attracted to older men. It's been that way since the beginning of time. If they do have that itch to scratch, are they more likely to look for some old dude that hasn't got a pot to piss in, or are they more likely to seek out someone who can take them on nice trips and buy them nice things? Pretty much common sense. They are drawn to SD sites because there is some perception of wealth among the men and an upscale vibe (as well as the verification of credit card payment from the men which helps them feel safer about their dating preference and meet ups). If they just wanted to get fucked by a random cock, they can get on Tinder and make that happen in about 10 minutes. They are looking for cock that's a little less random and comes with additional benefits.

An escort / UTR girl doesn't care who you are or what you look like as long as you're not too creepy and are willing to pay.

[Madaboutmax]

In my experience, what makes an SB an SB is that they are selective. They are looking for financial support, but are not willing to do anything for anyone to get it. As much as the financial support, they are looking to be treated better than they are typically treated by guys closer to their own age. They want a gentleman that cab show them the finer things, have fun and avoid the drama. They usually are surprised and how much of a difference experience makes in the bedroom.

I've had several SBs now that started off making it clear they want a "No Strings" relationship, but ended up wanted to be a girlfriend.

So many have sexual fantasies that younger guys just candle handle or can't make happen. When they have the best sex of their lives with a man twice their age it changes their view completely.

Some of my best experiences have been with new SB'S that enter the lifestyle reluctantly and appreciate someone who can guide them in their sexual exploration.

They all complain about guys on the Sugar sites that treat them like straight hookers off Backpage. There certainly on plenty of pros on the sites, but if you want a tru SB (in my definition), you need to bait your line for the fish you want to catch and act accordingly.

Just my thoughts.

[JeanSaulPartre]

I think "my friend" was playing this game for the last six years. Yes, he got a bit wrinkly with time, but in his hay days he was a model for a well-known brand. His experience with "sugar" has been very positive and he is now a big fan of SA. SA did well, for him, I believe.

I also think my friend have seen enough pros, UTRs, ERo $, BP and the oThER site material to tell a professional apart from a genuine person, who is new to this and trying to have a bit of fun while making an honest buck. He is a god tipper and his problem, I heard, not to line up SBs, but to figure out how to fit a few of them in his busy life. I would not immediately insult his intelligence just based on his never visiting this site.

What I said was that one finds people who will fit in their sugar lifestyle. His lifestyle is limited to a few hours after work. Since he is an intelligent and a decent looking man with some cash to burn, he does find and retain intelligent and good looking young women who would rather adjust to his timeline (which, on the surface, is no different from one's "appointment" with a pro) than look for anything more involved. If an SB agrees to seeing you in this setting, this automatically does not make her a UTR and / or a pro. In fact, I would argue that some SBs who agree to see my friend in this setting (that, in addition to a date may or may not include a fancy dinner or a gift card, but nothing else) consciously chose to limit their exposure so that they do not get themselves in that deeper. Again, I leave it up to you to take this at my word or draw your own conclusions.

The worst thing we can do is believe that what is truly out there is defined by our own limited experiences. In addition to the experiences I've shared here, others have posted fully believable anecdotal experiences to this thread about their "relationships" with real SBs, and anyone who has been paying attention can see that some of those encounters are far different than the hourly escort / UTR experience.

[JZLizard]

I think the notion that "the real SBs" of the non-escort type are keen to be a part of the SDs life and take two $hits about him being successful or what not is not quite true.

I'm not fully certain I understand the basis of your disagreement completely, but my most recent mention of real SBs being attracted to successful men has nothing to do with how much she cares about him as a person if that's what you mean.

I mean that women like successful men. They have money, they are smart, they have confidence that the average poor working stiffs don't have and they have status in life. Women are attracted to that. Anyone who has trouble understanding that has a long way to go toward understanding women. Whether you are talking about true SBs, hookers, or the typical housewife, you are going to have to search for a long time to find one who would express a preference for a run of the mill lackey over someone who has achieved some things in life.

I am quite certain "my friend' had the pleasure of the company of at least two "real SBs" absolutely non-escort type who were content with seeing him in a totally "escort-like" setting, for a couple of hours in a hotel, paid arrangements for purely intimate purposes. I think the SBs actually wanted to totally compartmentalize the encounter, so that "my friend" had no part in their "real" life once the sugar relationship started. Interestingly, while "my friend" went on dates before sugaring, he had a lot more in a way of intense engaging conversations and text exchanges. Once sugaring started, these stopped.

Just sounds like "your friend" encountered a couple of pros. If he has not yet been able to meet any real SBs, it's going to be impossible for him to create an *informed* (operative word) opinion about the differences between the two. There are a lot of guys whose approach to meeting girls completely determines the type of girls they will meet. They never modify their technique, so they never see any other type of girl.

Is your friend relatively young (by SD standards I mean), attractive and successful? To the point that he has no problems getting laid and attracting women significantly younger than him outside of the realm of SD websites? If so, he will quickly find he has the type of real SB I'm talking about lined up waiting to meet him on these sites. If he is 75 years old, not in the best physical condition of his life, or has never had much dating success anyway, he is going to find himself on a different end of the supply and demand spectrum in terms of the sugar world.

The worst thing we can do is believe that what is truly out there is defined by our own limited experiences. In addition to the experiences I've shared here, others have posted fully believable anecdotal experiences to this thread about their "relationships" with real SBs, and anyone who has been paying attention can see that some of those encounters are far different than the hourly escort / UTR experience.

[GetLost]

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[HollywoodGuy]

Going to visit my webcam baby over the thanksgiving holiday. Its been very hard to feel connected to someone that lives so far away. But since she is somewhat in the area of my relatives I rented a room for 2 days only 15 minutes away from her. This would be the most time allotted to spend with her since we met about 4 months ago. I believe her job drains her of her sexual energy so I am going to ask her to refrain a bit prior to our meet. This will impact her paycheck and I can not afford to totally makeup what she will lose by doing this. If we lived closer she could be my ATF. I find that a lot of the girls on the SD site have very busy lives. It's good if you need to keep some distance, but not so good when you want a little more.

[FredMoore]

It pays dividends to be direct in dealing with SBs. Optimally, a M&G in a public venue is necessary, whether coffee or dinner, then lay out your requirements.

" none of that fun stuff: no anal, no choking, no slapping, no CIM, no kink. " SloMo.

Kink takes a special type of girl and I would not be overy surprised if a newly minted SB in visit #1 at the FC would not be down for choking, etc. This should be discussed before if that is what you expect, to save you time and money.

Right now I am negotiating price up front before the M&G and it is not working out so well. The technique that works is a midlevel dining experience (don't waste too much money, but impress her a little) followed immediately by a trip to the FC. Do not give them time to think it over. "Let's go up to my place and have a drink / get comfortable / whatever " Most will move right away and no money needs to be discussed until the deed is done. The best fuck of my life bar none was a 18 yr old spinner who came up for a coke and pronounced that she never had sex on the 1st date. Well, soft music was playing, an invitation to dance around the room with nice groping of the goods resulted in weakening of resolve. We danced right into the bedroom, stripped her down to her birthday suit, and pounded the crap out of her sweet pussy for 2 hrs.

[HollywoodGuy]

So there you have it. My first sugar bowl FC visit! Took 2. 5 months on SA. May it be the first of many. SM.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Corny but true.

[Dolato]

I was curious how your m&g would go, so it was good to see a quick followup.

Seems like A had the initial phone "problem" to put you on hold while she followed another prospect. Her phone started working again when that didn't come through.

A part timer with a new infiniti has some kind of decent income coming in unless she's still living at home and all her earnings are going towards car payments.

See seems like a good situation, and I see no harm in going along. Has any $ talks been discussed yet? Even if things don't work out, it'll be a learning experience in what you should / shouldn't do with future POTs.

Be isn't a bargain at $$ so if there's no kink available with her, then you can get much cheaper dead fish lays anywhere. Even after she gets her own place, it'd be tough to lower the sugar and $$ just seems much for sex you're not enjoying. Just like you two discussed the sugar and agreed on what she's wanting, bring up what you're wanting in the FC.

Let us know how it goes with the trio.

[SlowMo]

In a testament for how quickly things can change in the bowl (see previous post), I have three M&G lined up for this week:

A- One with the girl who's phone presumably died on an earlier attempt. The only reason for a 2nd chance here is the quality of the communication (phone incident aside) and the hotness of the pix. She's the one who proposed the new date, time and place. That seems like a good sign.

B- One with a MILF who seems to know what to expect as she wants to make sure I understand she's not in her pre-kid physical condition. I anticipate a low level of expectation here due to her low-cost town and complex situation.

C- One with another hot girl with a self-described "practical" level of expectation, but I want to test that a bit as she works in a beauty salon.

Let's see what the count is by week's end. Place your bets now.

SM.

Busy week here gents. I was a bit like Ray Liotta in Good Fellas, juggling a few too many (meat) balls. Here's how it went down.

A- I let her talk me into meeting her at the Top of the Hub in Boston. For those who don't know, it's a posh bar / restaurant atop one of the tallest buildings. Expensive everything, but great view. She arrived 45 min late, though she did text throughout to update me on her status. Tardiness pisses me off to no end since I run a very tight ship (and have to in order to make this work). She did look fantastic (dress, heels, etc). I let her know right away at what time I'd have to leave so that she understand she inadvertently rushed us. Because the bar-bar was full, I asked for a table. Only afterward did it dawn on me that I had just unintentionally put three feet of solid wood between us (the table, not mr johnson). Conversation was OK, but not great. The girl itself would make a fantastic GF: beautiful, intelligent, fit, career aspirations, has a decent part-time job, is going for an advance degree, drives a new Infiniti. But those same traits may not make her a great SB candidate. The parting of the ways was a bit awkward but a barely-there hug on her part. We obviously didn't hit it off. I need to learn to keep M&G low effort on my part. I don't mind the money, but the driving around, parking and waiting was a 3 hr affair I don't have time for. I just sent her an email asking for her thoughts and expressing some doubt on my end. I'm not too keen on trying that again with her.

See- Met this one at a coffee shop in Boston's South End. Note to self: there is zero parking there. Total nightmare. I parked half a mile away and was sweating bullets by the time I got to her 10 min late. You'll gather that she was on time. She looked great. We shared coffee and a few stories of our experience. We're tentative for dinner next week where I need to dot I's and cross T's. She's beautiful, works a low end job and has her own apartment. That's much more SB material I reckon.

Be- This is where it got interesting. Been texting this one for a while. Nearly dropped her due to miscommunication, but I persevered and turns out she was just trying not to come across as pushy. A big plus in my book. We went for an early dinner at a place of her choice: Olive Garden, 30 miles out of the way. No drinks, no desert for her, so it was cheap. She looked just like her pics. Pretty darn cute but not as fit as I usually prefer. I gave her a ride to and fro, so back in the car she lays it out there. We settle on $$ to play, but since she can't host, notel fees come out of her budget (she hopes to be able to host in the near future). We concluded with a little making out.

Having a cancellation in late afternoon the next day I called her on a whim. She was available and would be delighted to see me. So I rushed over, got a room (paid cash, needed $ cash deposit, and had to provide a photo I'd apparently per state law to my great annoyance). I then picked her up, and we went straight at it. It was OK in the sense that there was no rush, though I did sense she was getting a bit annoyed after an hour of pumping in various positions. Hey, not knowing whether there was going to be a 2nd shot on goal, I wanted to make it count. But overall it was fairly uninspired on her part: she complied but didn't really participate. And none of that fun stuff: no anal, no choking, no slapping, no CIM, no kink. And sure enough, the moment I was done she started to get dressed. I was too dumb to address it right then and there, but that's another lesson learned: must spell out this is quiet time, not one and done. I don't think I'll make her a regular she doesn't get me all that excited. But she'd be great to pave over a dry spell.

So there you have it. My first sugar bowl FC visit! Took 2. 5 months on SA. May it be the first of many.

SM.