Thread: Rants, Raves and Opinions AKA "The Octagon"
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03-25-20 07:36 #11756
Posts: 517Originally Posted by BengalMan [View Original Post]
"The only meaningful economic indicator is the number of minutes a journeyman carpenter must work to buy a loaf of bread".
The price of that bread (and cars, and housing, and education, and healthcare) has gone up-a lot. The carpenter's wages haven't.
Tgd.
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03-25-20 07:26 #11755
Posts: 517Originally Posted by FortunateSon1 [View Original Post]
ALL of the indicators you claim support "Trump is better for the economy" are near-perfect linear increases from the 2009 to 2016 trends under Obama- except that Trump dramatically jumped the deficit with his tax cut, and the trade deficit with his tariffs. All the other metrics were exactly where they should have been if the economy had continued the same growth rates (obviously this last month is a statistical outlier and quite fairly is not and shouldn't be counted). Obama inherited a disastrous meltdown and turned it into steady growth. Trimp's number are the same growth continued at the same rate. Maybe pictures will help you get this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...conomy-charts/
This WaPo column is an opinion piece, but it makes the argument by showing the actual GDP, employment, etc. Data over the time period in question. It shows exactly what I have said- the economy WAS growing when Trump inherited it, and continues to grow steadily, at the same rate. Trump hasn't changed it in any meaningful way.
Since you obviously don't get economics, lets try a sports example- a football team is up by 42-0 at the end of the 3rd quarter (6 touchdowns) , when the head coach dies. The assistant coach takes over and the team scores 2 more touchdowns in the 4th quarter, for a final score of 56-nothing (an all-time scoring record for the team). The new coach proclaims that the greatest scoring day the team has ever recorded is due to HIS brilliant coaching!
In other words, the best you COULD HAVE said for Trump's handling of the economy is that he hasn't managed to fuck up what Obama accomplished. But I have faith in Don, he will manage it somehow!
Since you closed with a sports metaphor, I'll lob one back:
Game, set, and match.
The good dr.
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03-25-20 07:02 #11754
Posts: 73Originally Posted by BengalMan [View Original Post]
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03-25-20 06:06 #11753
Posts: 778Numbers
As a free market republican, we have always known that only one number encapsulates what the economy is doing, and that's GDP.
All the other statistical whimsies are nothing more than red herrings.
In high school the course was known as Econ 101.
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03-25-20 02:37 #11752
Posts: 542Proof
Originally Posted by FortunateSon1 [View Original Post]
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03-25-20 01:21 #11751
Posts: 2558Originally Posted by FortunateSon1 [View Original Post]
Now, comparing apples to apples, with only the first 36 months (up to Jan, 2020, before the COVID-19 crisis), the second chart will show that at the same point in their presidencies, President Obama grew the stock market 57%, while Donald Trump only grew it 47%; a 15% difference. So while it's true that the stock market was on a record high, that upward trajectory started in March, 2009. Also, it's worth pointing out that in 2017, the GOP Congress, Senate, and Donald Trump cut corporate taxes from 35% to 20%, and corporations used the savings for STOCK BUYBACKS, artificially inflating the stock market, without actually expanding business.
I'm sure someone will attempt to bring up the TARP program of 2009, injecting $780 BILLION dollars in corporate and bank relief and that's the same as the tax cuts. The difference is that TARP was 100% paid back. In fact, it made a PROFIT of $40 million dollars after all the loans were repaid and the stocks issued to the government as collateral was sold. So while the 2017 tax cut was just money lost, TARP made a profit for the Federal Govt. And Joe Taxpayer.
Now, if we were to inject real world numbers, we can't ignore that in the last 3 month, all the stock market increase that came about starting in January 2017, has been wiped out. Currently, the stocks are back to about what they were when Donald Trump was sworn into office. I am not saying that Trump created the COVID-19 global pandemic. But you can only use COVID-19 so often as an excuse.
Although this has nothing to do with the stock market, let me point out 2 key differences in the personalities of President Obama and President Trump. The day after President Obama was sworn in, January 21,2009, he was assembled in the White House with the new cabinet, the Fed chairman, and members of the banking industry working to stop the global economic meltdown. It was May, 2009, before he took time off. (his schedule is public record). The day after President Trump was sworn into office, January 21 of 2017, he flew on Air Force One to Florida and golfed that weekend. He took a break from work, before he did one second of work; a trip that cost taxpayers $3 MILLION, some of which was paid to Trump Resorts to house and feed his staff and security detail. Like I said, the Presidential vacation time doesn't have any bearing on the stock market, but it sheds a lot of light on the type of people they were.
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03-24-20 22:39 #11750
Posts: 44Numbers
Originally Posted by FortunateSon1 [View Original Post]
Lets be one forever.
Both sides playing dirty politics with Corona. Let the bollot speak and elect ones who worked for us and are capable.
Lets put end and end to "Help the poor trick" and "Look good on TV charade".
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03-24-20 21:55 #11749
Posts: 243Numbers
Originally Posted by Muncher2323 [View Original Post]
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03-24-20 21:25 #11748
Posts: 435Checking In
So what has the local hobby scene been like the last couple weeks? Are the providers getting much business? Is our least favorite uncle finally focused on other things for a change?
I'm kind of sidelined, as the wife is home all the time now and it's much harder to get away with extracurricular activities. So I guess I have to live vicariously through you all for the time being.
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03-24-20 13:57 #11747
Posts: 778Well said
Originally Posted by WChris927 [View Original Post]
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03-24-20 12:23 #11746
Posts: 107Is that you, Donald?
Originally Posted by BamBam [View Original Post]
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03-24-20 09:46 #11745
Posts: 778Economics
Originally Posted by Jeh123 [View Original Post]
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03-24-20 08:50 #11744
Posts: 141Politics
Originally Posted by BengalMan [View Original Post]
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03-24-20 06:49 #11743
Posts: 73Originally Posted by JoeKent [View Original Post]
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03-24-20 05:49 #11742
Posts: 778Not true
Originally Posted by MondoMan [View Original Post]
They sew jeans in Mexico for 2 bucks an hour. A border collie can do this work. No need to pay Americans 20 bucks to do it. The displaced simply needed to get advanced skills or advanced education. The FREE job training programs were there for decades; some were just too lazy to partake.
The facts of NAFTA. They hurt. Sorry.
And all you fellow Republicans, know this, we Republicans voted for it, support it, and love it. It is PURE CAPITALISM. The free market.