Streetwalker Reports

[Grain 56]

Was cruising through your town. Had heard a lot about obt and other streets in the vicinity. After some night scouting saw some sws, white and blavk. By the dolls strip club and torwards the mall...
...Did get a lot of valuable info. Will attenpt again soonish. No images as camera was buszed up.

Click on the "see original post" link in the post below to open up a layout of OBT by area. Not totally comprehensive but covers the main 7 mile stretch you may be interested in.

This post comes out of hibernation a couple times a year. It's not all inclusive but gives general guidance to those wanting to learn the Trail.

It's just a general overview. I am certain that many will see exclusions or may have additions. Some may not agree totally with the list as a whole and that's OK. This is for newcomers and visitors. This isn't meant to replace RTFF, as there are literally tons of info buried throughout the forum.

Grain 56.

P.S. Be careful this week, there's a big event in town and LEO may be out in force. Also, you mentioned some of the basic rules you saw trying to be violated, like asking to be paid in advance and won't get in the car, etc. , you are right to be leery, follow the rules and don't ever let your guard down.

[Sicilia21]

Was cruising through your town. Had heard a lot about obt and other streets in the vicinity. After some night scouting saw some sws, white and blavk. By the dolls strip club and torwards the mall. Originally didn't head to the mall that night. Had no gps and was searching and getting a layout of the land. Scooped up 2 bsws. But due to cop precense. Lavk of knowledge of spots and price negotiations. Didn't fuck any of them. They either wanted to hold the cash or more than what I was offering. The suply was there so I didn't budge on pricing. Early morning scouted the areas some more, did approach one but she didn't want a ride. Then saw on3 by the schools torwards downtown but cops and school crossing guards were in the vicinity and didn't partake. Did notice a SW but wasnt sure if they were trans so called off the search. Did get a lot of valuable info. Will attenpt again soonish. No images as camera was buszed up.

[VincentGambini]

I can assure you the only crime here was committed by the deputies which is called false arrest. They already pulled this shit by arresting girls during police checks where nothing was said except asking to see their little dicks. This does not meet the probable cause proof in any way as nothing about sex for anything of value was mentioned to remotely satisfy the requirements. Some of the girls arrested for these police checks were Sara, Green Eyed Jess, Barbie and our beloved Ice Pick Ashely (just to name a few). State refused to file charges on any of these girls arrested for prostitution as their police check did not meet the probable cause requirements even the slightest. Nor do the recent loitering arrests unless they admit to it. Loitering is usually a tack on charge for a crime that was done just like resisting arrest. It's rare to be charged with it alone unless the person arrested admitted to a crime. As for Tampa's loitering for purposes of prostitution charge to be valid short of the WG openly admitting / confessing to the crime they would have to prove they were hanging out to offer sex for anything of value; which is simply impossible unless the WG was holding a sex for sale sign or the LEO overheard a deal between a john.

It's not a false arrest where there's a statute or ordinance in place allowing such an arrest. Does not matter if said statute or ordinance is later overturned, if the law was in place at the time of the arrest, the arrest itself was still valid. Also, keep in mind that the loitering for purposes of prostitution would not necessarily require "sex for anything of value" to be mentioned. In theory, the arrest could come about based on a "known prostitute", meaning conviction within the past year, being in an "area known for prostitution, pretty much all of OBT, and waving at drivers as they pass by. Please keep in mind we're talking about an ARREST, not a CONVICTION. For the conviction to occur, certainly a prosecutor would want more.

That's why they target these poor drug dependent girls and other low hanging fruit. All false arrests are actionable and once the LEOs and county starts getting sued in the federal court and victims submit complaints to the DOJ and FBI's div of corruption things will change very rapidly, but not until then. Might even get a few LEOs arrested as well. It's in the constitution that you have the right to roam free. Fight these fucking assholes back.

Probably some truth to that first sentence about low hanging fruit. As I stated previously, LE often looks to effectuate an arrest even when there is not a certainty of conviction, after all, that gets the person off of the streets and, as Grain pointed out, it certainly may discourage the ladies from going right back to those some locations. As to the rest of your post, certainly debatable. As I stated above, if there is a statute or ordinance in place, these are NOT false arrests. Even if charges are dropped later, does not make it a false arrest. Huge difference between what LE needs, probable cause, and what a prosecutor needs, beyond any reasonable doubt. As to suing anyone in federal court, that is not an easy, or inexpensive, thing to do. These are second degree misdemeanor offenses. The provider gets arrested. She's taken to the county jail. She appears before a judge. The prosecutor says they'll offer the provider credit time served and she's done. Is the provider going to accept that offer and be released or is she going to stand her ground, dispute the charges and later on sue in federal court? COULD this happen? Sure. WILL it happen? Seems like the vast majority of people would take option 1, credit time served and done.

https://www.thecentersquare.com/cali...3198028c2.html

That's California. This is Florida. Governor there is a Democrat. Governor here is a Republican. I'd submit that they are complete opposites. I'd also point out that, in your article, he clearly states that they are NOT legalizing prostitution. Probably not the best article to support the argument for prostitution being on the cusp of legalization.

This is where the problem lies, few bother to fight and when you don't fight you lose every time. Unfair laws only get changed by fighting and challenging them. Admitting guilt to them only encourages to prosecute even more. Remember the counties that arrest for prostitution also do it as a money maker and once these cases start getting dropped by the state or won by the defendants in court it will become a liability. As mentioned before the burden of proof has to be met of an actual crime committed before any arrest is made, no one can be arrested just for nothing. Not legally anyway. At the end of the day it's going to be up to the jury. Do you think they give a fuck about 2 people fucking over money? I bet they'd be pissed to be there to hear such BS charges. It only takes 1 juror to side with you and with the majority these days believing this to be a non-criminal offense are really shitty odds for the prosecutor. During Prohibition, juries who disagreed with alcohol control laws often acquitted defendants who had been caught red handed smuggling alcohol. In reality it would never get to court with a competent attorney. Think the state has time to answer a ton of questions from the interrogatories? You'll never get the answers back on time. What about a depo for an entire day? Not happening on a 2nd misdemeanor charge as the prosecutors don't have time to even handle felony charges on their other cases. When was the last time a defendant with a competent attorney found guilty by a jury over prostitution charges in the last 10 years?

So right and so wrong all at the same time. True, laws get changed based on people challenging those laws. Also true that the prosecution has the burden of proof and that a defendant, or his attorney, need only convince one juror to avoid a guilty verdict. Otherwise though, I'd disagree with many of the comments. I'd suggest one issue is simply the reality of the court system. I had a cousin once (yep, a lot of cousins getting arrested) that was charged with prostitution. He had a great case, he never mentioned money or sex, never took off any clothes or exposed himself in anyway and never touched the UC in any sexual way. His attorney suggested he should go to trial because he believed he could get a not guilty verdict. However, my cousin had a plea offer for a reduced charge and decided to take that instead of going to trial. He made that decision because he didn't want to pay the attorney a trial fee and then be in court (you know, open to the public) where there would be testimony that he contacted a UC to get laid in exchange for money. He had a wife and kids and didn't want the embarrassment that could come from a public trial. And as to the comment of whether people give a fuck about people fucking over money, yes, plenty of people do. Rest assured, a fair portion of the jury pool will be staunchly religious, or they'll believe the hype about trafficking or they'll have some other reason, whether real or imagined, to think prostitution is morally wrong or, more relevant, legally wrong.

Bottom line, play smart, follow the rules we all know, including educating oneself with the shared information available on these boards and you should be fine, yes, SHOULD be fine. If you want a guarantee you'll never visit with Uncle LEO, probably time to change hobbies.

[Grain 56]

I made about 4 passes through the Greater Mall Area from Wendy's at Consulate to the Wawa up in the NQ, starting about 6:30 pm last night. I didn't see a single SW out in the Greater Mall Area from the OQ to Sand Lake. Not a BCBJC Member, not a local SW regular, not a stray DB, not a working soul! I only saw a few civi's. I even stopped at both Wawa's in the two quadrants.

Further to the north, it was a little better. I did see a few at Jordan in the NQ area and then as I continued even further north, I saw a handful in the 40's, 20's and Teen-Numbered Streets.

One thing I will say is that the 7-11 at 39th seems to be one of the places that some of the former OQ girls are hanging out these days. As I have mentioned before, they are centered at the Zada Hotel. Over the past week, I have seen some really decent looking, mostly BSWs that appear that they were formerly OQ regulars. Dressed up, flaunting openly, etc. There were 3 girls hanging out there earlier in the afternoon yesterday, all trying to get dates, that looked better than most of the advertisers you see on many of the sites.

They are pretty bold and blatant. I reported on a couple of them a few weeks back, out walking on 40th exposing a lot of skin. Yesterday, one of the girls out there, wearing a mini skirt, was fully squatting beside the dumpster with her knees spread and her goods on full display. As I passed, she didn't even flinch. At first, I though she was peeing, then I realized that she wasn't peeing and actually was too busy sucking on a glass candy stick to worry about me seeing her fully on display.

I also saw another HSW that looked pretty good across OBT with a handler in tow.

Grain 56.

[Bjceb]

They love to do this around big events, so totally makes sense. The bowls games is another time were they do sweeps of the area.

Makes perfect sense.

The Biggest Golf Event of the Year is in town this week. That may explain some of the heat turned up in the South End of the Trail.

Uncle seems to be doing some other clean up as well. For example, there is a family with 2 small children that literally have taken up "camp" in the swale along Sand Lake Road near the Publix on the West side of the road near Dr. Phillips. They have a large make-shift shelter made from various coverings set up on the swale and have been living there for months and months. They probably make big bank from donations of caring citizens, especially with all the upscale patrons that frequent that area. Anyway, unless I missed them being out there today when I passed by, I didn't see them or their tent. They were there earlier this week. I saw them twice. Quite odd.

My guess, knowing that the PGA is in town this coming week and Orlando will be on the World Stage (in that very same general area) plus knowing that some of the most high-end and popular restaurants are on that very strip, where they have their colorful shelter built along the road, is that they have been conveniently relocated. Maybe to an actual hotel for a period of time, all to get them from shedding such a horrible light on that high-end area for all to see.

Anyway, it's a big event week here in the city beautiful. Uncle usually sets up shop and many times goes after the providers as well as the mongers before and during the event. Stay safe, mind your P's & Q's.

Gran 56.

[Savage33]

The other day I had a dream with Jessica. In my dream she was walking along the mall area. She is a petite brunette WSW and looks like she is in her 30's. Took her to a quite spot and got some nice dtbbbj. She did a good job and also let me have fiv. Took her time and did not rush. Standard 20 tokens and she was on her way. She didn't have digits and I dropped her off in same area then dream was over.

[LonelyMan718]

Did a little searchimg on the form and didn't see much. Is there a decent spot to keep an eye out?

[Grain 56]

The Biggest Golf Event of the Year is in town this week. That may explain some of the heat turned up in the South End of the Trail.

Uncle seems to be doing some other clean up as well. For example, there is a family with 2 small children that literally have taken up "camp" in the swale along Sand Lake Road near the Publix on the West side of the road near Dr. Phillips. They have a large make-shift shelter made from various coverings set up on the swale and have been living there for months and months. They probably make big bank from donations of caring citizens, especially with all the upscale patrons that frequent that area. Anyway, unless I missed them being out there today when I passed by, I didn't see them or their tent. They were there earlier this week. I saw them twice. Quite odd.

My guess, knowing that the PGA is in town this coming week and Orlando will be on the World Stage (in that very same general area) plus knowing that some of the most high-end and popular restaurants are on that very strip, where they have their colorful shelter built along the road, is that they have been conveniently relocated. Maybe to an actual hotel for a period of time, all to get them from shedding such a horrible light on that high-end area for all to see.

Anyway, it's a big event week here in the city beautiful. Uncle usually sets up shop and many times goes after the providers as well as the mongers before and during the event. Stay safe, mind your P's & Q's.

Gran 56.

[Grain 56]

Was out yesterday (Saturday) from around 3 pm till 7, from consulate to Americana. Made a number of passes and saw absolutely nothing. Checked all the normal spots in that stretch. Even the mall area and was dry. The blatant half dressed walkers we have become accustomed to are MIA. The Walmart area saw one girl squatting on side walk near gas station relieving herself. Not exactly a turn on, well at least not for me. Scat does not excite me.

Saw very little if any LEO's so can't understand where have all the SW's gone?

Other than it was mid-day during the dog-days of summer-like weather we are having, there is no real reason the Greater Mall area wasn't busier unless the new enforcement is to blame. The WM area and the NQ have been meh at best of late already.

The county charge of "loitering for unlawful purposes" is working it appears, down near the mall anyway, based on your observations. Once the Texas and Cali Girls aka the BCBJC Members catch wind that Uncle is hitting them back with petty charges, they may be less likely to come out. Making them take a limo ride, pay check-out fees to leave, then be expected to show up for a time share presentation at a future date, isn't sitting well. Even if the charges are bogus, they still have to go through the motions and risk a FTA charge later on if they don't show up for the first bogus charge date. That of course, if the charges aren't already dropped by then.

I am not aware of any of those loitering for UP charges (as well as the uptick in the "remaining in a place for prost" charges) taking place outside of the Greater Mall area. They seem to leaving the NQ and North alone.

The 20's and 40's Streets have been a little lighter in attendance, but they are still out there.

As far as worrying about dudes getting that same charge for just driving by or by talking to someone, I haven't seen a single male charged with that county charge. Yet. What this uptick in activity does show though is that they are definitely watching the activities of the blatant SWs in the South part of the Trail. I think it was mentioned earlier, I am sure the businesses have been complaining, plus Spring Break is just around the corner and you know the Mouse and Wizard want your hard earned money to be spent on family entertainment inside their respective walls, not out on OBT. LOL.

The local tax money being wasted on all the "free" legal help, room, board, etc. For all these out of town ne'er-do-wells will eventually be called out as well, as was mentioned. I am sure once they get zero guilty results or fines paid for dozens and dozens of arrests.

Grain 56.

[MongerSeeker]

Also if you are stopped only say that you were offer her a ride. Do say anything or exp; ain further. Just remember you are innocent until proven guilty. The police or the prosecutor cannot prove otherwise unless you admit to it for loiteing.

If you are stopped for loitering. Just tell him you just stopped to offer her a ride. LE cannot arrest you and make it stick if you tell the. It is your right to offer a ride regardless if she is a SW or not. There is case law that backs this up.

[AhBigDrew]

Christina will be out between BK and wawa. Seniors can get #.

[NotACop1]

Was out yesterday (Saturday) from around 3 pm till 7, from consulate to Americana. Made a number of passes and saw absolutely nothing. Checked all the normal spots in that stretch. Even the mall area and was dry. The blatant half dressed walkers we have become accustomed to are MIA. The Walmart area saw one girl squatting on side walk near gas station relieving herself. Not exactly a turn on, well at least not for me. Scat does not excite me.

Saw very little if any LEO's so can't understand where have all the SW's gone?

[MongerSeeker]

If you are stopped for loitering. Just tell him you just stopped to offer her a ride. LE cannot arrest you and make it stick if you tell the. It is your right to offer a ride regardless if she is a SW or not. There is case law that backs this up.

Someone call for me? No problem, here's my two cents!

The State of Florida has had a loitering and prowling statute on the books for years, the current form of the statute has been in place for at least 25 years. As to that statute, it's a second degree misdemeanor, the lowest level of criminal offense we have in Florida. For an arrest, LE needs to observe a person in a place, at a time or manner that would be unusual for a law abiding citizen and under circumstances that warrant a reasonable cause for concern for the safety of persons or property.

I've got a lot of cousins, seems one or the other is always getting arrested. One of my cousins was arrested awhile back and charged with loitering. He decided to go to trial and have the State prove up the charges. To do so, the prosecutors would need to prove two things beyond any reasonable doubt to the jury, that my cousin was in a place at a time or in some manner that was unusual for a law abiding citizen and that said loitering warranted justifiable concern for persons or property. In my cousins case, he was in the alleyway behind a shopping plaza at about midnight when all the businesses had closed hours before. LE saw him turn a few door knobs on the back doors of some businesses and also look up for security cameras. Then, when LE drove up, my cousin tried to hide behind a dumpster. He was found guilty at trial and filed an appeal. The appellate court ruled that my cousins actions were sufficient to leave the conviction in place.

It seems like legal challenges are more likely to prevail with city or county ordinances. I was at a pool hall in Tampa a few years back. The guy I was playing wanted to challenge a city ordinance. Seems Tampa had passed an ordinance outlawing loitering for purposes of prostitution. That ordinance made it unlawful to be standing by the roadway and talking to other people or waving at cars going by. As I was sinking the 8-ball and taking his money, I told him he had a great issue to challenge, the court should rule that the actions contemplated by the ordinance could easily be actions taken by normal, law-abiding citizens.

On the next table, my girl Mona Lisa was working some other sucker. Seems he had been arrested recently for violating another Tampa ordinance. Much like the prostitution one, it made it a crime to loiter for purposes of selling, purchasing, possessing or transferring controlled substances. Having helped me with legal research, Mona Lisa knew to tell that guy, as she was working him for a couple Franklins, that he should challenge his arrest too. She told him that this ordinance also possibly made it criminal to beckon, stop, wave or call to passers-by, actions that could be taken on any given day by any number of law-abiding citizens. Sure, he lost a couple hundred bucks to my girl, but he got a valuable legal lesson, while the state law on loitering has been upheld many times, cities and counties have had a difficult time taking that law and crafting something stricter, something geared towards other specific crimes such as prostitution or drug sales.

Unfortunately, none of the local ladies were at the pool hall so I didn't have the chance to chat any of them up or get the details on how / why they got arrested. If anyone has looked up those details yet, I'd certainly be interested!

Again, the state law is a second degree misdemeanor, something prosecutors typically don't much care about. I'd guess most prosecutors will want to get rid of that charge as quickly as they can, probably just court costs and nothing more. As to LE, they likely continue to make the arrests because they can. It gets the suspect off the streets at that moment in time, has them processed through the jail and then, potentially, has them think more about their actions the next time. Combining these things, I'd say LE looks at it as a tool to use to "clean up" the streets, regardless of what the prosecutors do on down the road. In fact, wouldn't surprise me if, at some point, some chief or sheriff makes a statement about how his agency is doing everything it can to "rid our city" of this criminal element but the damn prosecutors keep giving away plea deals like candy. Age old way to pass the buck! If you're looking to avoid an arrest for loitering, don't do what my cousin did, don't be in a place where there's no legitimate reason to be there, don't test door knobs on closed businesses, don't hide behind the dumpster. If you're just walking along, or driving along and keep on moving, you should be fine. If you get stopped anyway, be prepared with a plausible explanation. While there's no way to guarantee you won't get arrested, those things should go a long way towards avoiding it.

[Orlando Monger]

Despite visiting various and sundry pool halls throughout Florida, Orange County included, I've not yet encountered an individual that challenged ordinance 26.51. That said, I did compare it to the ordinance from the Tampa area. In Tampa, the ordinance included language such as "repeatedly beckons to, stops, or attempts to stop, or engages passersby in conversation, or repeatedly stops or attempts to stop motor vehicle operators by hailing, waving of arms, or any other bodily gesture for the purpose of inducing, enticing, soliciting, or procuring another to commit an act of prostitution. " That's the language that led to the appellate court ruling against the prosecution. The Orange County ordinance contains no such language. Instead, the Orange County ordinance seems to rely more on LE observing a "known prostitute or panderer" engage in certain actions, the "known prostitute or panderer" defined as a person that has a prostitution related conviction within the past year, that conviction being known to LE at the time of the observation.

Certainly possible someone may challenge this ordinance at some point, perhaps someone already has and I'm just not aware of it. But, as detailed previously, it's a second degree misdemeanor that is usually quickly resolved, maybe even dropped. Should a person get arrested and spend a day or two in the county jail, the prosecutor may well offer credit time served and the case is done. Even without any jail time, this low level offense would typically be resolved with little more than court costs. That being the case, from a financial perspective, or even a time commitment perspective, it's often not worth the hassle to challenge such an ordinance.

P.S. Mona Lisa said to say "thanks" to you! Despite our disagreements, frequent and loud though they may be, that girls my ride or die! Really should marry her one day! Maybe after I win my next case!

This is where the problem lies, few bother to fight and when you don't fight you lose every time. Unfair laws only get changed by fighting and challenging them. Admitting guilt to them only encourages to prosecute even more. Remember the counties that arrest for prostitution also do it as a money maker and once these cases start getting dropped by the state or won by the defendants in court it will become a liability. As mentioned before the burden of proof has to be met of an actual crime committed before any arrest is made, no one can be arrested just for nothing. Not legally anyway. At the end of the day it's going to be up to the jury. Do you think they give a fuck about 2 people fucking over money? I bet they'd be pissed to be there to hear such BS charges. It only takes 1 juror to side with you and with the majority these days believing this to be a non-criminal offense are really shitty odds for the prosecutor. During Prohibition, juries who disagreed with alcohol control laws often acquitted defendants who had been caught red handed smuggling alcohol. In reality it would never get to court with a competent attorney. Think the state has time to answer a ton of questions from the interrogatories? You'll never get the answers back on time. What about a depo for an entire day? Not happening on a 2nd misdemeanor charge as the prosecutors don't have time to even handle felony charges on their other cases. When was the last time a defendant with a competent attorney found guilty by a jury over prostitution charges in the last 10 years?

[Orlando Monger]

https://www.thecentersquare.com/cali...3198028c2.html