General Reports

[Tongue]

From the FBI web site "Until data users examine all the variables that affect crime in a town, city, county, state, region, or college or university, they can make no meaningful comparisons." Detroit is no more dangerous than other large cities in the US. The problem (as the FBI and the nation's leading society of professional criminologists have been pointing out for several years now) is that CQ's list takes useful data and translates them into a list that tells us next to nothing about who's at risk of becoming a crime victim.

Don't kid yourself. If you think that all of the cities are the same. Wear a lot of bling and walk down the middle of downtown detroit at midnight, and I will do the same in Indianapolis. I bet I make it with all of my stuff and you won't make it a block. I bet I will see a cop of 3 down there and I bet you won't see one. Unless you are speeding or trying to pick up a SW or some other crime where they can stop you and write you a $900 ticket.

I watch these shows where they have 15-20 guys involved in a sting to take down someone selling $10 rocks, or bust SW's charging $10-$30. Each guy there making 50-70K X 15 people is a million dollars of payroll to keep me from being terrorized by a $10 rock seller. While over in the other neighborhood, someone is killing the cook in a coney island, or breaking into a house. They only put the cops where the money is. Don't fool yourself.

[Bigboi47]

Am I wrong to be upset when I read that Detroit is the most dangerous city, but if you count the number of police on 94 between the airport and Telegraph road, they could clean up the city in 2 weeks with that much firepower.

It's all about money. HEY DETROIT, quit your fucking whining and concentrate on read crime, not just the ones that line your pockets.

From the FBI web site "Until data users examine all the variables that affect crime in a town, city, county, state, region, or college or university, they can make no meaningful comparisons." Detroit is no more dangerous than other large cities in the US. The problem (as the FBI and the nation's leading society of professional criminologists have been pointing out for several years now) is that CQ's list takes useful data and translates them into a list that tells us next to nothing about who's at risk of becoming a crime victim.

[Tongue]

Am I wrong to be upset when I read that Detroit is the most dangerous city, but if you count the number of police on 94 between the airport and Telegraph road, they could clean up the city in 2 weeks with that much firepower.

It's all about money. HEY DETROIT, quit your fucking whining and concentrate on read crime, not just the ones that line your pockets.

[Bigboi47]

I lost my car and got a ticket.

Could someone give me some advice on what to do. This is my first offense and I'm really concerned about getting put in the sex offender database.

I picked up a girl had some bad vibes/changed my mind and told her to get after traveling a few blocks. Then a mile later LE all over me.

Should I find a lawyer myself or will a court appointed going to get me the same outcome for my first offense.

What does it say on the ticket? LE probably saw you pick up a sw they were watching. Go to court take a lawyer if you can afford one if not there will be some there. Picking up a sw or soliciting does not get you put on the sex offender list. This happened to me about 9 years ago lawyer cost $400, fees to get my car back about 1k. Had to go to john school where they warn you about the dangers of prostitution. Next court date lawyer took care of everything I waited in the hall way no record or anything. just don't get caught again was my warning.

[AllwaysLookin]

I lost my car and got a ticket.

Could someone give me some advice on what to do. This is my first offense and I'm really concerned about getting put in the sex offender database.

I picked up a girl had some bad vibes/changed my mind and told her to get after traveling a few blocks. Then a mile later LE all over me.

Should I find a lawyer myself or will a court apppointed going to get me the same outcome for my first offense.

Get your own lawyer. btw post the details. if you did not do anything how did you get popped?

[Waxon1]

Cornelius Pitts was Melvin Butch Hollowell lawyer and he got him off that would be a good place to start.

You have a PM with his address and number
Let me know how you come out.

Good luck.

[Waxon1]

AND THIS
Web-posted Jan 15, 2005


By SARAH KARUSH
Of The Associated Press

DETROIT - A judge threw out a solicitation charge Friday against former Michigan Democratic Party Chairman Melvin "Butch" Hollowell.
Circuit Judge Prentis Edwards said Wayne County sheriff's deputies did not have the authority to pull over Hollowell on Aug. 17 near his home in Detroit's exclusive Palmer Woods neighborhood.

Hollowell, a longtime fixture in state Democratic politics, was issued a citation accusing him of soliciting a prostitute after deputies saw Hollowell pick up a woman. They followed him briefly before making the stop.

"I'm glad it's over. It's been devastating. The recovery has begun," Hollowell said following a five-minute hearing in Detroit.

A district court judge initially rejected Hollowell's argument about the authority of the Wayne County sheriff. Hollowell then appealed to Wayne County Circuit Court.

"There remains serious questions about how and why this case was initiated," said Cornelius Pitts, Hollowell's lawyer, who declined to elaborate.

Pitts has argued the Wayne County sheriff's deputy who issued the citation did not see any sexual activity, hear any financial propositions or witness any illegal activity between Hollowell and the woman who got into his car.

The defense attorney also argued that the deputy didn't have the right to pull over Hollowell because the county sheriff's office lacks the authority to enforce city ordinances unless it is in pursuit of a suspect or working with city police.

Hollowell pleaded not guilty in late August to the misdemeanor of receiving and admitting another for an act of prostitution, a violation punishable by up to 90 days in jail and $500 in fines.

He left his Democratic Party post to become an unpaid adviser to John Kerry's national legal team, but stepped down after he was issued the solicitation citation. He also resigned his appointment to the Michigan Civil Rights Commission and his position with the Butzel Long law firm in Detroit.

Hollowell has called the incident a "gross misunderstanding." He said he noticed a woman who appeared to be in distress and offered to take her to the police station a few blocks away. He said she declined and asked him to drop her off at a house around the corner.

The woman told officers she was working as a prostitute in front of the Dutch Girl Donut Shop when Hollowell picked her up. She said Hollowell paid her $60 for a sex act.

I found it! this was from 2004

Two weeks ago, the Detroit Free Press published two long, front-page stories that graphically destroyed the career of — and probably immensely damaged the life of — Melvin Butch Hollowell, a man who is not an elected official or on the public payroll, and who has been convicted of nothing.

He has, in fact, been charged with only a low-grade misdemeanor. But they ran these stories, with large headlines (“Hollowell accused of picking up hooker” and “Police report: Woman says Hollowell paid her $60 for sex”) because they involved a prominent person and gave them an excuse to write what amounted to soft porn disguised as journalism.

The newspaper described the supposed sex act in especially graphic detail in its earlier outstate editions, basing the account on what the “known prostitute,” also identified as a heroin addict, told police. (Hollowell denied doing anything except stopping to help a woman he thought was in trouble.)


Naturally, this was extremely responsible behavior on the part of the newspaper. Who could be more credible, after all, than an addict who would likely say anything to avoid being locked up? Any reporter who has worked the police beat ought to know she would have said that Hollowell made her a watercress sandwich, if she thought that’s what the cops wanted her to say.

No wonder journalists rank lower than politicians in public esteem.

What all this means is that whatever happens, Butch Hollowell, a man who has accomplished a lot and who has two teenage children, will forever be identified in the public mind as the man who gave “three folded $20 bills” to a cheap blond prostitute working in front of a dimly lit donut shop.

That’s how the media culture works, and that will be the case, even if he is exonerated. Even if it somehow turns out, say, that Hollowell is telling the truth, the vast majority of people who heard about the story will still remember him as the man who had oral sex with a cheap hooker.

“Here ruining people is considered sport.” That’s what Vincent Foster, a close friend of the Clinton family, wrote before killing himself in July 1993, after suffering a series of savage attacks on the Wall Street Journal’s editorial page.

Either the Free Press editors feel the same way — or with the smug sanctimony of all righteous idiots, imagine they are doing “a public service.” They may even feel they are showing virtue by destroying a man whose wife is a prominent columnist for their newspaper. (It has also been suggested that the editor, Carole Leigh Hutton, is overcompensating for her controversial decision killing a review that criticized best boy Mitch Albom’s latest bad book.)

Let’s look at the background. Had Butch Hollowell been the Democratic nominee for governor, the Free Press crucifixion might have been justified.

But even before this incident, he was a man whose political career was pretty much over. Ten years ago, he gave John Conyers a fairly stiff primary challenge. Smart, polished, a highly educated and compelling speaker, he was marked as a person destined for great things, though some worried that his ambition was running ahead of his record of accomplishment.

Two years ago, he ran for secretary of state, and openly hoped to become the first black governor. But he ran a poor campaign and was walloped by Terri Lynn Land, who heavily outspent him. Jennifer Granholm then attempted to make Hollowell party chairman, but was too politically weak to overcome labor’s desire to keep their boy, Mark Brewer, in the job.

Democrats tried, as a compromise, to have two party chairmen, with Butch very clearly second among equals. (Brewer got paid; Hollowell didn’t.) The situation was impossible, and neither man distinguished himself in the role.

Frankly, most Democrats I know thought Hollowell seemed more petty. Just before the hooker incident, Hollowell was pushed into resigning and becoming an unpaid legal adviser to the Kerry presidential campaign.

He also got a seat on the Michigan Civil Rights Commission. Most politicos figured his career as a candidate for elective office was essentially over.

Now that is certainly true. Naturally, the Detroit Free Press made sure that it surrounded its public lynching with the usual legally correct weasel words, mainly “alleged.” They even wrote an editorial further stomping on him, which began with the pompous words “The legal system will have to decide whether Melvin Butch Hollowell broke the law ...”

What nonsense. He’s already been convicted in print. If he is convicted in court, do you know what will happen to him? The electric chair? Alcatraz? Not quite. He may have to pay $500, probably less.

When you cover news, the first thing you learn is that you don’t have space and time for everything. It all comes down to priorities.

Those of the Free Press are clear. On the day all the lurid details were published, the newspaper buried these far-less-important items inside the paper in its local news briefs column: The largest currency smuggling arrest in Detroit history; two Christian missionaries, one from Michigan, were murdered in California, and a dead man was found at a local recycling station.

Most murdered children get far less attention in the Free Press than the minor misdemeanor of Butch Hollowell. What he did was stupid at best — even if he is telling the truth — and newsworthy to some degree; he is a political figure.

Had it been my newspaper, I would have put a story on the front of the metro section when he was arrested, and had another story when the case was resolved in court. Politically, this would have had the same effect.

You might say that wouldn’t sell papers. Here’s a fact: Twenty years ago, the Free Press sold 630,000 copies every day. They sell barely 340,000 now. Not so many people seem to love them anymore. I can’t imagine why.

[Waxon1]

I found it! this was from 2004

Two weeks ago, the Detroit Free Press published two long, front-page stories that graphically destroyed the career of — and probably immensely damaged the life of — Melvin Butch Hollowell, a man who is not an elected official or on the public payroll, and who has been convicted of nothing.

He has, in fact, been charged with only a low-grade misdemeanor. But they ran these stories, with large headlines (“Hollowell accused of picking up hooker” and “Police report: Woman says Hollowell paid her $60 for sex”) because they involved a prominent person and gave them an excuse to write what amounted to soft porn disguised as journalism.

The newspaper described the supposed sex act in especially graphic detail in its earlier outstate editions, basing the account on what the “known prostitute,” also identified as a heroin addict, told police. (Hollowell denied doing anything except stopping to help a woman he thought was in trouble.)


Naturally, this was extremely responsible behavior on the part of the newspaper. Who could be more credible, after all, than an addict who would likely say anything to avoid being locked up? Any reporter who has worked the police beat ought to know she would have said that Hollowell made her a watercress sandwich, if she thought that’s what the cops wanted her to say.

No wonder journalists rank lower than politicians in public esteem.

What all this means is that whatever happens, Butch Hollowell, a man who has accomplished a lot and who has two teenage children, will forever be identified in the public mind as the man who gave “three folded $20 bills” to a cheap blond prostitute working in front of a dimly lit donut shop.

That’s how the media culture works, and that will be the case, even if he is exonerated. Even if it somehow turns out, say, that Hollowell is telling the truth, the vast majority of people who heard about the story will still remember him as the man who had oral sex with a cheap hooker.

“Here ruining people is considered sport.” That’s what Vincent Foster, a close friend of the Clinton family, wrote before killing himself in July 1993, after suffering a series of savage attacks on the Wall Street Journal’s editorial page.

Either the Free Press editors feel the same way — or with the smug sanctimony of all righteous idiots, imagine they are doing “a public service.” They may even feel they are showing virtue by destroying a man whose wife is a prominent columnist for their newspaper. (It has also been suggested that the editor, Carole Leigh Hutton, is overcompensating for her controversial decision killing a review that criticized best boy Mitch Albom’s latest bad book.)

Let’s look at the background. Had Butch Hollowell been the Democratic nominee for governor, the Free Press crucifixion might have been justified.

But even before this incident, he was a man whose political career was pretty much over. Ten years ago, he gave John Conyers a fairly stiff primary challenge. Smart, polished, a highly educated and compelling speaker, he was marked as a person destined for great things, though some worried that his ambition was running ahead of his record of accomplishment.

Two years ago, he ran for secretary of state, and openly hoped to become the first black governor. But he ran a poor campaign and was walloped by Terri Lynn Land, who heavily outspent him. Jennifer Granholm then attempted to make Hollowell party chairman, but was too politically weak to overcome labor’s desire to keep their boy, Mark Brewer, in the job.

Democrats tried, as a compromise, to have two party chairmen, with Butch very clearly second among equals. (Brewer got paid; Hollowell didn’t.) The situation was impossible, and neither man distinguished himself in the role.

Frankly, most Democrats I know thought Hollowell seemed more petty. Just before the hooker incident, Hollowell was pushed into resigning and becoming an unpaid legal adviser to the Kerry presidential campaign.

He also got a seat on the Michigan Civil Rights Commission. Most politicos figured his career as a candidate for elective office was essentially over.

Now that is certainly true. Naturally, the Detroit Free Press made sure that it surrounded its public lynching with the usual legally correct weasel words, mainly “alleged.” They even wrote an editorial further stomping on him, which began with the pompous words “The legal system will have to decide whether Melvin Butch Hollowell broke the law ...”

What nonsense. He’s already been convicted in print. If he is convicted in court, do you know what will happen to him? The electric chair? Alcatraz? Not quite. He may have to pay $500, probably less.

When you cover news, the first thing you learn is that you don’t have space and time for everything. It all comes down to priorities.

Those of the Free Press are clear. On the day all the lurid details were published, the newspaper buried these far-less-important items inside the paper in its local news briefs column: The largest currency smuggling arrest in Detroit history; two Christian missionaries, one from Michigan, were murdered in California, and a dead man was found at a local recycling station.

Most murdered children get far less attention in the Free Press than the minor misdemeanor of Butch Hollowell. What he did was stupid at best — even if he is telling the truth — and newsworthy to some degree; he is a political figure.

Had it been my newspaper, I would have put a story on the front of the metro section when he was arrested, and had another story when the case was resolved in court. Politically, this would have had the same effect.

You might say that wouldn’t sell papers. Here’s a fact: Twenty years ago, the Free Press sold 630,000 copies every day. They sell barely 340,000 now. Not so many people seem to love them anymore. I can’t imagine why.

You may be in good shape if you did not admit anything to the cop.
You could say you just offered the woman a ride then you let her out when she offered you a service for cash not wanting any part if that. If I recall one local politician got off that way about a year ago.
Anyone recall his name? May be able to do a google search to find out who his lawyer was.

[Waxon1]

You may be in good shape if you did not admit anything to the cop.
You could say you just offered the woman a ride then you let her out when she offered you a service for cash not wanting any part if that. If I recall one local politician got off that way about a year ago.
Anyone recall his name? May be able to do a google search to find out who his lawyer was.

Definitely get your own lawyer!!! If you are talking the 36th district, there will always be a couple of on-site lawyers that will try getting you to go with them. It is absolutely worth the money to save you some of the aggravation that is coming your way.

Having just went through this, I can tell you that mine was pleaded down to disorderly conduct. The only reason I took this offer was because I was nabbed by a sting group and there were up to 4 officers that could have shown up if I had taken it to court.

If you were ticketed by a single cop, your lawyer will probably tell you to see it through to the end as most times in the 36th, the officer will not show up.

All said and done... 4 trips to the courthouse (Zoo), just under $3,000 spent and lots of work missed.

If you are married, complain about missing mail and have your mail forwarded to a new p.o. box out of her way, "close to your work".

[Lord Helmet]

I lost my car and got a ticket.

Could someone give me some advice on what to do. This is my first offense and I'm really concerned about getting put in the sex offender database.

I picked up a girl had some bad vibes/changed my mind and told her to get after traveling a few blocks. Then a mile later LE all over me.

Should I find a lawyer myself or will a court apppointed going to get me the same outcome for my first offense.

Definitely get your own lawyer!!! If you are talking the 36th district, there will always be a couple of on-site lawyers that will try getting you to go with them. It is absolutely worth the money to save you some of the aggravation that is coming your way.

Having just went through this, I can tell you that mine was pleaded down to disorderly conduct. The only reason I took this offer was because I was nabbed by a sting group and there were up to 4 officers that could have shown up if I had taken it to court.

If you were ticketed by a single cop, your lawyer will probably tell you to see it through to the end as most times in the 36th, the officer will not show up.

All said and done... 4 trips to the courthouse (Zoo), just under $3,000 spent and lots of work missed.

If you are married, complain about missing mail and have your mail forwarded to a new p.o. box out of her way, "close to your work".

[Waxon1]

Get yourself a law dog on your own.
Court Appointed is never a good way to go.
A good law dog will plea it down and may be able to prevent you fron haveing a record. Look into a deversion program most citys have one for first timers you pay a fine do some community service work and are on probation for a year or two then your record is clean.
But first get your car out of inpound you will have to pay a storage fee every day it is in.
This always costs a lot of cash just spend the money and put it behind you.

Good luck

I lost my car and got a ticket.

Could someone give me some advice on what to do. This is my first offense and I'm really concerned about getting put in the sex offender database.

I picked up a girl had some bad vibes/changed my mind and told her to get after traveling a few blocks. Then a mile later LE all over me.

Should I find a lawyer myself or will a court apppointed going to get me the same outcome for my first offense.

[Hoffman99]

I lost my car and got a ticket.

Could someone give me some advice on what to do. This is my first offense and I'm really concerned about getting put in the sex offender database.

I picked up a girl had some bad vibes/changed my mind and told her to get after traveling a few blocks. Then a mile later LE all over me.

Should I find a lawyer myself or will a court apppointed going to get me the same outcome for my first offense.

If you can afford it I'd suggest getting a lawyer. Personally I can't stand lawyers, they charge way too much. But I believe you would have a better chance to get off lightly by paying for one.

BTW, if you don't mind me asking where did you get popped?

[Punishr]

I lost my car and got a ticket.

Could someone give me some advice on what to do. This is my first offense and I'm really concerned about getting put in the sex offender database.

I picked up a girl had some bad vibes/changed my mind and told her to get after traveling a few blocks. Then a mile later LE all over me.

Should I find a lawyer myself or will a court apppointed going to get me the same outcome for my first offense.

[Spartan99]

Spartan,

Craziest day in your life, just doesn't do it justice. You are one lucky SOG. You could write a book, and then sell movie rights.

Nickel,

Yes, I felt lucky of sorts trying to fall asleep last night after the whole experience. All I could think about was the cop prodding me about why I was where I was, how I did not become a smart guy (which is a lot like me), and how being respectful and private about my "being" paid off! He kept asking me to be honest and tell him why and what I was doing in the area. I politely alluded to being allowed to travel anywhere, and he quickly said, "absolutely, you can go anywhere you want to go. " I didn't want to get into a constitutional law debate with a beat cop with handcuffs, but legally, I didn't have to explain my existence. I can hardly give advice after yesterday's complete stupidity, but I gotta say that never admitting to anything related to a SW is the best plan. Say you were picking something up from a guy on E-bay or something. Don't try to explain too much, just keep it simple, and don't say too much. I'd rather get a ticket for picking up a hitchiker than solicitation because of LE's imagination. There is a phrase in the Michigan statue that mentions admitting to solicitation. Admitting to anything isn't my style when it comes to LE looking for revenue in the form of my car. Even the LE yesterday told me he knew what the girl was all about and that I was parked in front of a shoot up spot. Did he want her for a likely felony charge of solicitation? No. He wasn't interested in the shoot up spot either. Its all about revenue. If it was about the social I'll of it all, they would legalize, tax, and regulate it.

[T Nickel]

Spartan,

Craziest day in your life, just doesn't do it justice. You are one lucky SOG. You could write a book, and then sell movie rights.