Starting a picture / video thread

**Herbie53** · 07-23-18 17:28

Originally Posted by IIIII [View Original Post]

The number that I have for her gives me the "The person you have called cannot accept calls at this time" message.

It seems to be my regular outcome, LOL.

**IIIII** · 07-23-18 17:07

Originally Posted by Herbie53 [View Original Post]

Always good to meet fellow command liners. I worked a good stint for AT&T in the early to mid 80's, and cut my teeth on early iterations of System V Unix and C. After AT&T, BSD was my game, and back then, basically the same OS. However, I'm very happy to not be programming anymore, or even working in any development or system management. Crap is getting real out there now with all the security breaches.

Being that your CPU is 2017 era, and Premier Pro is 2015, there likely has been a big jump in refinement and performance ability to take advantage of the more modern CPU cores that you have, than what the 2015 release can exploit.

Good to find another nix user, and sudo. Somebody has to know how to pilot the ship.

I'm still in the field and I still enjoy it. Its very satisfying when a script that you spent hours on works and does what you designed it to do. Biggest shit eating grin on my face every time it happens.

You make a very valid point about me using Premiere Pro 2015 and it possibly not being optimized for newer hardware. So I went and got a hold of Premiere Pro CC 2018, just need to install it and give it a run. I won't be able to mess with it for a few more days though, I don't have physical access to my PC at the moment. Thanks for all of the suggestions and input, it has helped me greatly and cleared up a few things too.

And since we went so far off topic of the thread title, here is a couple of screen caps from a petite sweet thing I met a few months back. Saw her twice during the great blackout, she let me video the second time for a few more pesos and then she went ghost on me. The number that I have for her gives me the "The person you have called cannot accept calls at this time" message. She was under 100 lbs, 5' 5" or so, had ant bites for titties and a had tiny cute little butt. Such a sweetheart and took anything and everything that you could throw her way. Crossing my fingers that her number will work again.

**Herbie53** · 07-22-18 19:17

Originally Posted by Admin2 [View Original Post]

Indeed you are. This was a great post. I especially liked the Engineers and Space Aliens line.

A2.

Thanks for the compliment. Just trying to spread the knowledge. Some of those that I've worked with / for in the past do seem like they're from another planet and time / space dimension, because they do not think or act like regular folks. The reference isn't that far from reality in my circles. The technology stuff that will be coming down the pipe in the next 5-10 years will make the year 2000 look like the 1600's. Never quit learning. Truth.

**TopGun9** · 07-22-18 10:48

Originally Posted by IIIII [View Original Post]

Video is actually fun, you can get very creative. Its the learning how to do it that takes awhile if you are new to it. Don't know how many hours I've spent on Youtube watching tutorials in my spare time.

My PC isn't bad either, I-7700 K Overclocked to 5 Ghz, 16 GB Ram, SSD for OS / storage and a 1070 Ti GPU, wish I had an i9-7980 XE 18 Core Intel Chip and a Titan V GPU though! To import / render a 10 min 4 k to 1080 P video would only take minutes, instead of the hour or so currently. Thanks for the offer but I'll keep at it for now.

Yes, it is fun indeed. Just very tedious and time consuming. I have an older I5 CPU, but I am only dealing with photos so it's not much of an issue.

**RogerOver** · 07-22-18 10:21

Originally Posted by Herbie53 [View Original Post]

I would think you have plenty of computer to edit video. Generally, when someone has a fast computer and editing is slow, it's usually because of one or more of the following: <snip>

Hope this helps. I'm not really a nerd, I've just been doing this stuff professionally for a very long time with many lessons learned because time is money. As with all hobbies, video too can get quite costly, but yes, it is fun and creative. Enjoy!

Originally Posted by Admin2 [View Original Post]

Indeed you are. This was a great post. I especially liked the Engineers and Space Aliens line.

A2.

I'm a nerd too and enjoyed this post. Seriously hadn't thought about the NAND issue, but the upside is that it has allowed faster development of storage density in SSD drives.

Regarding the ability (or lack thereof) to destroy or over-write data, I try to overcome this with whole disk encryption.

Thanks!

**Herbie53** · 07-22-18 05:09

Originally Posted by IIIII [View Original Post]

Lots of good info in there!

Definitely not a nerd, if you're a nerd, then I'm a nerd too. Unix is my bread and butter, AIX, Linux, and HP-UX, give me a command line over pretty windows and I'll be happy! I hate PC's actually, haha, only use them cause I have to (gaming).

I am using Adobe Premiere Pro CC 2015 Release 2015.2

Always good to meet fellow command liners. I worked a good stint for AT&T in the early to mid 80's, and cut my teeth on early iterations of System V Unix and C. After AT&T, BSD was my game, and back then, basically the same OS. However, I'm very happy to not be programming anymore, or even working in any development or system management. Crap is getting real out there now with all the security breaches.

Being that your CPU is 2017 era, and Premier Pro is 2015, there likely has been a big jump in refinement and performance ability to take advantage of the more modern CPU cores that you have, than what the 2015 release can exploit. While it may not be worth the monthly or annual fee for the latest version of Premier Pro, it could be interesting to see how it performs, and a 30 day free trial may be worth looking at to see if it helps render performance. Of course, as with any newer version, stuff gets moved and there is a new learning curve. And I have no idea now installing a trail version may affect your current installation. Perhaps being wary is wise, or using a small dual boot partition to test it out. I have used unregistered versions of Win10 on several machines to test stuff then reformat, and other than the occasion nag screen or inability to change wallpaper (oh my! It runs just like a registered copy.

With that said, and I'm speaking from a 2018 point of view, and don't have any current experience with Premier Pro from 2015, you may try rendering out at single pass, at a max bit rate of 15 mbps. Single pass encoding has really improved visually in the past couple years, so I don't know how it will look with 2015 iterations, but I rarely use multi-pass encoding unless it is something going on TV, large projections, or high end viewing systems.

Web streaming, computer playback, 60 inch 1080 p HDTVs et al. , all look fine (to me) at single pass and 15 mbps, and I've never had any client issues on uploads to the major streaming services. Even at 1080 p, improvements in visual quality above 12 mbps single pass are difficult for most people to see outside of a studio quality environment.

Consumer gear can't show the difference. It's like for audio, they want "the best" and yeah, I can record your audio at 64 bits at 192 kHz, but the typical user is going to listen to it as an mp3 on $12 earbuds, speakers from Best Buy, or worse, built in TV speakers, and the streaming services are going to be 16 or 24 bit at 160 kHz. Why bother? It's a TV commercial that will die in 90 days, and at best, be on YouTube for a few decades. Most people don't have class A amplifiers and Genelec monitors in their home, or acoustically treated rooms, so why waste the resources and storage space to record audio at such fidelity for ordinary projects? But if they pay for it, so it shall be done.

Anyway, I always generate a ProRes 422 or 444 master file from a finished project and archive it, in addition to the lower bitrate and quality mp4 files. That way I can always bring the master file into a new project file and render in other formats or quality settings if needed.

My typical settings for 4 K to 1080 p mp4 output are: single pass, 15 mbps max bitrate, frame reordering turned on (helps a bit with compression size for some types of source video, but not so much for others), optimized for web streaming, (also called fast start) which puts the moov atom (kind of a table of contents of the mp4 container) at the front of the file, so html 5 video playback can start immediately instead of waiting to start playback.

I have played, tweaked, tested and generally spent too much time trying different combinations of settings, and I have found that for me, these settings produce consistent quality results and good render speed. On average, I'd say rendering is about 1. 5 times faster than real time. Of course, render times are greatly affected by the content of the images in the frames, but my shooting is varied and I consistently get faster than real time rendering using these settings when going 4 K to 1080 p mp4, on systems with specs similar to yours.

Perhaps testing a short 1 minute clip render using settings similar to what I use, and then the same 1 minute clip using what you normally use, and comparing the output quality and render time, then seeing how they land. I too would be frustrated with a 10 minute clip taking 45 minutes to render. Also, if you find that a 1 minute clip can meet your visual standards and give better render time using a configuration similar to what I use, but then find that a 10 minute clip using the same still takes 45 minutes or so, then it may be a heat dissipation and throttling issue causing the CPU to slow down when long clips are rendered. Notwithstanding that, since you have a great hardware setup for your system, then perhaps the older version of Premier Pro is the bottleneck if it's not a heat issue, since you have ample hardware.

Good to find another nix user, and sudo. Somebody has to know how to pilot the ship.

**IIIII** · 07-22-18 00:19

Originally Posted by Herbie53 [View Original Post]

Hope this helps. I'm not really a nerd, I've just been doing this stuff professionally for a very long time with many lessons learned because time is money. As with all hobbies, video too can get quite costly, but yes, it is fun and creative. Enjoy!

Lots of good info in there!

Definitely not a nerd, if you're a nerd, then I'm a nerd too. Unix is my bread and butter, AIX, Linux, and HP-UX, give me a command line over pretty windows and I'll be happy! I hate PC's actually, haha, only use them cause I have to (gaming).

I am using Adobe Premiere Pro CC 2015 Release 2015.2 (Free copy, don't ask LOL), checked all my settings and did the "Speed up Adobe Premiere CC" tutorials. I have it set to use my GPU to export, I can't do proxies in this release which would help out some in saving time while editing. When scrubbing and the drop down for scrubbing quality is set to full I only get a few dropped frames here and there. Also I was exaggerating a little bit when I said it took an hour, it just felt like it! Everything that I use my PC for usually flies by. Never really started to edit videos until recently. Always just took videos and then moved them to storage straight off the camera. Video editing definitely taxes the system hard. Export setting are; h. 264, HD 1080 p 29.97, VBR, 2 passes and have the target / min bitrates to match the video and Max Rendering Quality checked. I hate how long it takes to export / render but I do want the best quality video when exported. It takes about 45 minutes to export a 10 min 4 K at the settings I use, tested it out earlier today. I am using the Samsumg 960 EVO NVME m. 2 250 GB for the OS and a Crucial MX500 1 TB for games and sort of a waiting area for files before I move them to an encrypted 6 TB Raid 1 HDD setup using Intel's RST for storage. I am on Windows 10 and at the current release. Thanks for all the suggestions, if I do upgrade anything it will be when intel releases their next generation chipsets and nvidias new generation GPU's come out. I plan on going balls to the wall on my next build.

Also when exporting, all 4 cores are at 100% and the GPU hovers around 30-40% and spikes to 70-80% at times. From the research that I have done it seems like everything is running ok, I don't really have anything to compare it to besides what I have read online so I could be off and could probably speed it up somewhere too.

**Rouleur** · 07-21-18 23:51

Originally Posted by Herbie53 [View Original Post]

I would think you have plenty of computer to edit video. Generally, when someone has a fast computer and editing is slow, it's usually because of one or more of the following:...

...Hope this helps. I'm not really a nerd, I've just been doing this stuff professionally for a very long time with many lessons learned because time is money. As with all hobbies, video too can get quite costly, but yes, it is fun and creative. Enjoy!

Malcolm Gladwell says it takes about 10 K hours to master a craft or sport. You Sir are definitely a master! Much respect for you and your willingness to share with us!

**Admin2** · 07-21-18 23:23

Originally Posted by Herbie53 [View Original Post]

Hope this helps. I'm not really a nerd,!

Indeed you are. This was a great post. I especially liked the Engineers and Space Aliens line.

A2.

**Herbie53** · 07-21-18 19:16

Originally Posted by IIIII [View Original Post]

Video is actually fun, you can get very creative. Its the learning how to do it that takes awhile if you are new to it. Don't know how many hours I've spent on Youtube watching tutorials in my spare time.

My PC isn't bad either, I-7700 K Overclocked to 5 Ghz, 16 GB Ram, SSD for OS / storage and a 1070 Ti GPU, wish I had an i9-7980 XE 18 Core Intel Chip and a Titan V GPU though! To import / render a 10 min 4 k to 1080 P video would only take minutes, instead of the hour or so currently. Thanks for the offer but I'll keep at it for now.

I would think you have plenty of computer to edit video. Generally, when someone has a fast computer and editing is slow, it's usually because of one or more of the following:

1) The software being used is consumer level software instead of pro level software. Generally, consumer level software will only use (or be "somewhat" optimized) for two CPU cores, regardless of how many cores the CPU has, and those cores are not used the same way that they are in pro level software.

Adobe Premier Elements is popular, but is consumer level, so it generally will not be a fast car in the race. The stuff that comes bundled free with computers, whether PC or Mac is not designed for speed, but to be free and easily usable (if editing video can be considered easy). While task manager (PC) or activity monitor (Mac) may show all cores being used, consumer grade video software isn't designed for pro / business level work or productivity, and generally won't efficiently use more than 2 cores, and at least in my experience, won't really push those two, either.

Consumer software is designed for vacation videos and such, since consumers generally have more time than money, don't shoot that much, and the software is inexpensive or free. No publisher of commercial video editing software is going to put all their horsepower in a consumer or free edition, because they know that a lot of what pros do it small, short length, single cam stuff with B-roll footage. Licensing 10 copies of Adobe Premier Elements is a lot cheaper (one time cost), than 10 annual recurring subscriptions to Adobe Premier Pro CC, so publishers are not going to put the same efficiency and power in their consumer grade software. Just not going to happen. Yes, there is free Linux stuff that kicks ass, but that is probably beyond the scope of those reading this, and enough said about that. I have and do use them all. I'm a best tool for the job kind of guy, not a fan boy.

Adobe Premier Pro CC for PC, or Final Cut Pro or DaVinci Resolve for Mac, efficiently use all cores on their respective platforms, and all of them will generally max out whatever someone's computer has to offer, so the more beastly the machine, the better the performance. FYI on this though, Adobe Premier Pro CC Mac version is notoriously slower than either Final Cut Pro or Resolve. Could be because Adobe and Apple are not friends, but that's only an opinion.

For PCs, Adobe Premier Pro CC is the go to program for power, and on the Mac either of the other two mentioned. Final Cut Pro is really freakin' fast on a souped up, later generation Mac and is professional quality after a quite messy rewrite and launch back in 2011. There have been many upgrades and improvement in the past 7 years (all free, BTW) for Final Cut Pro.

2) The computer hard drive subsystem is slow. While SSDs are fast, many are known to create some bottlenecks when editing video because while to the OS they look like "regular" hard drives, at the firmware level, there is a lot of black-box magic going on that only engineers and space aliens can understand. This is because of the use of NAND memory chips.

NAND memory in SSDs is a temperamental child for sure. This is why an SSD generally cannot be securely erased. The wiping program thinks it is working, but the SSD firmware basically ignores it but reports it did it. It does this since NAND memory chips have a finite lifespan, and the firmware controls what gets written, where, when, and how, and how often, to optimize NAND life. Video bottlenecks are especially true if the SSD is actually a hybrid drive (the first 256 or 512 gigs of say a 2 TB drive is SSD, but the rest is a conventional drive). Since video files are so large, by default, the OS will use the slower conventional hard drive part of an SSD for video work if the drive is a hybrid, saving the SSD part for the OS, programs, apps, to speed booting, program launch, and opening much smaller files for "normal" usage. Video editing is not normal usage by anyone's definition. Hybrid SSDs are another form of space alien weird crap, so are best avoided for video editing.

An external high speed USB 3 RAID-0 drive for video editing is quite fast and can quite easily handle two 4 K streams for multicam ending if that's desired, and will most always be faster than any internal drive. They are cheap (in video dollars) and easy to DIY. A couple 2 TB internal SATA drives, and an external SATA to USB 3 RAID-0 enclosure (Vantec NexStar MX on Amazon) can be had for well under $300. Just be sure to use a certified USB 3. 0 high speed cable (the internal connector ends are blue and they are inexpensive). Do this, and one has 4 TB of really fast (but not fault tolerant) editing hard drive (always backup project files, as they can be re-rendered if needed should the RAID-0 take a dive). I've been using this DIY setup on personal stuff for years, and it flies. It's a great, inexpensive solution for personal use. For studio and professional use, there are faster and more fault tolerant solutions, but they are expensive, as is time in those environments. Time = Money. Just ask any service provider, LOL.

3) Video cards. The one you list should be fine for personal use, so I don't think that would cause a lot of hit on rendering. More is better of course, but it should at least do real time rendering for 10 minutes of output, not hours. The GPUs on systems with mobo built-in the video cards are, IMO, horrid, but the one for the card you list is fine.

GPUs are used a lot for rendering in pro video editing software, and CGI. On PCs, a video card upgrade, and multiple video cards with fast GPUs on MOBOs that support it, are impressive (but expensive). On Macs however, there really isn't a non-Hollywood style budget video upgrade option, so the lesson for Macs is to buy big and cry once from the start. It's expensive, but worth it (however, I'm not so sure about that on the just released new MacBook Pro, as it seems to have heating issues and throttles the CPU, which is unacceptable on a $3 K+ pro / business laptop. Best to wait on those IMO).

The computer specs you list are very good. I have similar specs on one of my machines as you list (it's a Mac though, using Final Cut Pro), and it can edit 4 K real-time without lag using an external USB 3 high speed RAID-0 drive. An edited video at 10 minute 4 K, rendered out to 1080 P, will render 2-4 x faster than real-time on that Mac, depending on the bit rate quality, compression, and multi-pass settings for export.

Before spending money on something faster, because what you have hardware wise rocks, you may want to run a benchmark program to: 1) See how fast the hard drive actually is in a small and large file block, sequential and random, read / write transfer test. Large block sequential read and writes should be fast. If not, it will cause editing and render performance hits, because in video, most everything is large block size. 2) See how efficient the cores are in the current OS version you are running compared to other similar systems with similar specs. If the cores benchmark slower than expected, then it's likely a good idea to get up to the most current version of the OS being used, especially if running Windows 10.

Older Windows OS are never going to be tweaked beyond what they are, and that's that, so if running anything but Win10, it is what it is. However, if on Windows 10, run the latest release. If the drive benchmark comes back slow for video, then try a DIY an external RAID-0. If the cores are not efficient are the most current OS is running, then take a critical look at the video editing software being used. Check if any updates have been released for that version, download and install them, though if it is consumer level software, don't expect miracles.

If not using pro / business level video editing software to start with don't expect a lot of performance upgrade tweaks for that version. Even with a current version of consumer level video editing software, a fast external RAID-0 isn't going to help a lot, as the main bottleneck is the rendering efficiency of the consumer grade software, not the CPU, GPU, or hard drive subsystem.

Hope this helps. I'm not really a nerd, I've just been doing this stuff professionally for a very long time with many lessons learned because time is money. As with all hobbies, video too can get quite costly, but yes, it is fun and creative. Enjoy!

**IIIII** · 07-21-18 15:42

Originally Posted by TopGun9 [View Original Post]

Agreed. I take photos as a hobby. It takes hours to edit a few dozens of photos with Lightroom.

Haven't try video, but if you need a volunteer to edit your videos, you know when to find me.

Video is actually fun, you can get very creative. Its the learning how to do it that takes awhile if you are new to it. Don't know how many hours I've spent on Youtube watching tutorials in my spare time.

My PC isn't bad either, I-7700 K Overclocked to 5 Ghz, 16 GB Ram, SSD for OS / storage and a 1070 Ti GPU, wish I had an i9-7980 XE 18 Core Intel Chip and a Titan V GPU though! To import / render a 10 min 4 k to 1080 P video would only take minutes, instead of the hour or so currently. Thanks for the offer but I'll keep at it for now.

**TopGun9** · 07-21-18 15:21

Originally Posted by IIIII [View Original Post]

Thinking about it, still would have to edit it down to a 4-5 min video. Hate editing a long / large video takes forever on editing / exporting side.

Agreed. I take photos as a hobby. It takes hours to edit a few dozens of photos with Lightroom.

Haven't try video, but if you need a volunteer to edit your videos, you know when to find me.