2000-2004 Archived Reports

[Bysshe]

Greets to all those regulars here. I'm a contributor to the Wash DC, Baltimore, and Virginia boards. My presence here is because info about Wolfgang's post below was cross-posted to our area, and I came here to read it. Having read it, I have some reactions:

You realize that if Mr OJ had been videotaped by LE making these reviews as an interview, they would be equivalent to confessions to multiple crimes insofar as LE is concerned. In the words of evidence rules, each review could be a party admission against penal interest, a recently recorded recollection, a statement of mental condition following a session, and a regularly kept business record by the Review Board. Those are multiple grounds for admission into evidence.

I don't agree that the business records exception would be particularly availing, since it requires that the record be "...the regular practice of that business activity to make the memorandum, report, record or data compilation, all as shown by the testimony of the custodian or other qualified witness..." (Rule 803(6)). The recorded recollection exception is available only when the declarant "...now has insufficient recollection to enable [him] to testify fully and accurately, shown to have been made or adopted by [him] when the matter was fresh in [his] memory and to reflect that knowledge correctly..." (Rule 803(5)).

The present sense exception is not relevant except if the fact at issue is intent, plan, motive, design, mental feeling, or the like. It does not make the matter asserted in the statement relevant. In other words, unless there is a defense of mistake of fact, or absence of intent, this is not available.

I agree that, if authenticated properly, the statements would be admissions against penal interest. I believe this is the only ground upon which they may be admitted.

The problem for LE is authenticating the reviews as statements made by our hypothetical Mr OJ. LE can do this in several ways.

One is to go to the agencies and indys with search warrants, arrest warrants, and threats. Providers are much easier to find than reviewers, and most have info on Mr OJ, such as date of encounter, hotel room number, maybe even credit card info. They sing, or are compelled to by court order, perhaps given immunity. The CC# or tel# leads to Mr OJ's, medical office, home or both, and his wife answers the door. LE seizes his files, records, receipts, diaries, personal & biz computers to verify the e-mail address and everything else they need.

You missed a few vital links in the chain, counselor. How does verifying the e-mail address go to authenticating a post made on a message board? Our e-mail addresses are not displayed here. Certainly if his home computer had copies of reports, those might be admissible against him. But you've put the cart before the horse: the man is already identified by means that have nothing to do with message board posts. Unless the IP address used to make the post on the message board can be determined, and then matched definitively with the IP address used by the accused at that time, there's insufficient foundation to authenticate posts.

LE method two is to go to the Review site, HnH in Chicago, ***, **** in Texas, TRB in Seattle. LE hits them with search warrants, takes, and studies their servers and computers to verify the ID of Mr OJ and authenticate the reviews by him and those of Ms Naughty. LE comes up with e-mails, posts, and reviews, and at least a CC# or po box address. LE threatens the Board with conspiracy charges. Nobody has an offshore server, so the data is in there. An offshore server could withhold its contents. It happens all the time in various other areas of activity. That would not make things worse.

The question is not about the recovery of e-mails, posts, and reviews, at least as far as posts on this board go. If the server logs IP addresses, you may have a point. The mere presence of e-mail addresses does not show a definitive link between a purported poster and a specific computer.

Then LE draws up charges: Mann Act for facilitating transport across state lines for unlawful sex; Travel Act racketeering; prostitution; conspiracy; soliciting; and both felony statutory or common law sodomy & adultery. Maybe a little money laundering or tax evasion. LE offers the reviews as evidence of those crimes, as actually admissions and descriptions.

There is no general federal criminal common law. I weep for your students. I also would like to point out that even if there were, Lawrence v. Texas effectively destroyed criminalization of sodomy in the United States.

You have taken some extremely weak connecting points and built them into a bridge.

This is nonsense. LE has plenty of effective tools in their arsenal, all of which net mongers relatively easily. Going to heroic lengths to make anonymous message board post admissible as hearsay exceptions is absurd and doomed to fail. Given the exaggeration and bragging that goes on, the posts "lack the requisite indicia of reliability" in any case.

Good grief.

Bysshe

[Wolfgang]

Dear Jackson,

I found this on "another" boards discussion page and I thought it would be good reading. To post or not to post, that is the question.

Last fall two task forces were established in the twin cities area involving agents from federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies. The agencies that are involved include the FBI, BATFE, Minnesota BCA, Minnesota gang strike force, Mpls police, St. Paul police and prosecutors from the US attorney’s office and the Hennepin Co attorney’s office. One of the area’s they will be addressing is juvenile prostitution…plus other related areas.

In case you missed it this, I was searching through *** legal board for some information on the “mann act” since we have a number of ladies that travel here, and how that act effects it. So here is an interesting post that I did find, there are many other good posts.

This is a non-legal corner summary exercise of the worst nightmare of how Reviews can be used against hobbyists and providers, from the perspective of someone who taught federal evidence in another life. A married hobbyist pal from the health care world in the NE asked me to explore the problem carefully with the rules of evidence in hand. This is what I found:

LE sometime really wants to GET some people whom they know are hobbyists or providers. LE has little sympathy with prostitution and Johns, as they characterize this, nor with cutesy disclaimers and the doublespeak talk about "companionship." All they may have to start with are reviews, from different cities & States, with anonymous tags. There is usually vivid detail of bbj's, Greek with porn stars, amounts paid, general location, approximate dates, etc. LE may also want to prosecute a few agencies, and ensnare a hot porn star & porn agency for the media publicity. They can easily find ten reviews from say "Ms Naughty - the French & Greek Mistress," who travels all over for "companionship," and whose webpage is "not a solicitation for prostitution." Those disclaimers really crack up FBI agents we can be sure. (Sound of donuts and coffee spilling! LOL)

The targeted male "Mr OJ" flies to see some women. He flies in others to see him, always crossing state lines in interstate commerce. He encourages even more to tour his home city, Boston for instance. He pays with cash, uses CC's only at hotels, and regularly withdraws from ATMs to keep his cash stash handy.
He uses both indys and agencies.

First, LE prints out all of their reviews and identifies possible crimes and potential witnesses, such as the ladies in question, and the agency operators, the hobbyists who posted reviews of Ms Naughty.

You realize that if Mr OJ had been videotaped by LE making these reviews as an interview, they would be equivalent to confessions to multiple crimes insofar as LE is concerned. In the words of evidence rules, each review could be a party admission against penal interest, a recently recorded recollection, a statement of mental condition following a session, and a regularly kept business record by the Review Board. Those are multiple grounds for admission into evidence. The problem for LE is authenticating the reviews as statements made by our hypothetical Mr OJ. LE can do this in several ways.

One is to go to the agencies and indys with search warrants, arrest warrants, and threats. Providers are much easier to find than reviewers, and most have info on Mr OJ, such as date of encounter, hotel room number, maybe even credit card info. They sing, or are compelled to by court order, perhaps given immunity. The CC# or tel# leads to Mr OJ's, medical office, home or both, and his wife answers the door. LE seizes his files, records, receipts, diaries, personal & biz computers to verify the e-mail address and everything else they need.

LE method two is to go to the Review site, HnH in Chicago, ***, **** in Texas, TRB in Seattle. LE hits them with search warrants, takes, and studies their servers and computers to verify the ID of Mr OJ and authenticate the reviews by him and those of Ms Naughty. LE comes up with e-mails, posts, and reviews, and at least a CC# or po box address. LE threatens the Board with conspiracy charges. Nobody has an offshore server, so the data is in there. An offshore server could withhold its contents. It happens all the time in various other areas of activity. That would not make things worse.

Then LE draws up charges: Mann Act for facilitating transport across state lines for unlawful sex; Travel Act racketeering; prostitution; conspiracy; soliciting; and both felony statutory or common law sodomy & adultery. Maybe a little money laundering or tax evasion. LE offers the reviews as evidence of those crimes, as actually admissions and descriptions.

Authenticating the e-mails and reviews is the hard part, but that is what cybercrime LE people do all the time.

The lesson to Mr OJ is not what he wants to hear. It is probably too late. The reviews are there. LE has probably long since made copies of all of them and started investigating. The links of the e mail addy and posting names are weak ones. Too many people know. Too many paper trails exist. The database is too huge for selective deletion, and that raises questions of obstruction.

We all need to know that anonymity is many cases is an illusion, to hope for the best - being ignored - and to become better prepared for the worst.

There has been a pattern with the feds in hot button areas, that you can see by going through US Atty websites. A few prosecutions each year for porno, child porno, ID theft, other select areas. I expect we soon will see a few federal and state prosecutions in each district of a few hobbyists and a few providers. Fed resources are finite. Some will be very unlucky. Many will be frightened out of the hobby.

I do not like my conclusions on this at all.

[tassder12]

This MUST be the site they reference.

As posted by Crap Game on the previous page:

"Just thought I'd throw in my experiences with SW's in Minneapolis.

The best action I've found is still on Lake Street, East of 35W and West of Hiawatha Ave."

Great.

[Superman8272]

Anyone have any info on MP's? HJ's, BJ's, Full Service, young ladies. Preferably north suburb. Please either leave report here or leave me a private message.

Thanks

[Pugilist]

from today's Star Tribune. Could this be the site referenced in the article?
_____________________________
Lori Harris had mixed feelings Monday as she watched Minneapolis police arrest a man who had just propositioned a police decoy at E. Lake St. and 19th Av. S.

After police stopped the suspect's red pickup truck, he ran past Harris' home through several yards and into a duplex, where police arrested him about 12:30 p.m.

"It is scary to see that happening in our neighborhood," said Harris, standing in her front yard in the 3100 block of Longfellow Av. S. But, she added, prostitution is a common problem in the area and "It is lovely to see something happening."

The decoy operation was launched after police found a Web site promoting E. Lake Street from Hiawatha Avenue west to Interstate Hwy. 35W as a relatively easy place to find prostitutes, said Sgt. William Blake. He said the Web site noted that police don't put pictures of convicted johns (customers of prostitutes) online, as St. Paul does.

Minneapolis police plan to start posting such mugs on the Internet this spring, Blake said.

"We want to get the information out there that this is not the place to come if you want to have sex for cash," Blake told reporters who watched the decoy operation from a distance Monday. "You can say the prostitutes are victims, but the real victims are the people who live here that have to deal with this activity day in and day out."

Prostitution often leads to other crimes affecting residents, including robberies, assaults and drug use, said Lt. Rick Thomas.

He said two decoy stings Monday netted a dozen arrests in about four hours. Seven men, ranging from 20 to 81 years old, were booked for allegedly soliciting undercover officers; another for promoting prostitution and one for loitering with intent to commit prostitution.

Two other men were booked for drug possession, and a woman who let the fleeing man into her apartment building was tagged for obstructing justice. Police also recovered $1,600 cash in the fleeing man's car and a small amount of crack cocaine, Thomas said. And papers were filed to seize five of six vehicles: two sport-utility vehicles, two cars and a truck.

Citywide, prostitution arrests totaled 886 last year, down from 1,184 in 2002, said CODEFOR crime analyst Doug Hicks. More than half of the arrests in each year occurred in the Third Precinct. That area, where the decoy operations occurred, runs from I-35W west to the Mississippi River and from I-94 downtown south to Hwy. 62.

The decoy stings will continue several times a month, said Third Precinct Inspector Scott Gerlicher. He said prostitution arrests in the precinct dropped from 657 to 472 in the past two years because of manpower cuts and because the night community response team focus shifted last year from prostitution in 2002 to drugs, other street crime and chronic offenders.

This year the decoy stings will focus on arresting johns instead of prostitutes as happened in the past, Gerlicher added. He said police are also working with PRIDE, a local group aimed at getting women out of prostitution and into jobs. "Over the years Lake Street has gotten a reputation as a place to go for prostitution," he said. "We want people to know if you come here for prostitutes, your vehicle will be seized, you will be arrested and it will be a very public event for you."

[Swissman]

Hi all, hi superman

here ist the websid of Kings of Dimond

http://www.king-diamonds.com/

is realy a very good club i was there many time where i was working in MN.

Have Fun!
Swissman

[Wolfgang]

I went cruising on the 7th of March in the afternoon hours and it was very slim pickings. I did spot one chick, drove on, and on finding nothing, drove back. As I was picking her up my gut feeling was telling me to drive on, but the little general had other ideas.

We parked behind what she told me was an OK location [please note that my car, being European, can be locked and locked out from my seat - I took some precautions]. I asked for a BJ and she said OK. She licked once and then jumped up on her seat, pulled her pants down and said, f"or an extra 10 you can have this. Great ass, huh?" It was skank central. I took a look and there was even a prolapse in her anus. Not a pleasant site. I told her again that I just wanted some skull, she said OK, whined for more money and jumped up to show her skanky ass to me again. she spotted a box of tissue in the backseat, grabbed some and blew about 10 pounds of snot into a tissue and then threw it on the floor of my car.

At this point I saw a man coming out of his house with some garbage. I told her to get down to which she replied, "he's mexican and doesn't care." The problem was that he was asian, had a cell phone and did care. I buttoned up and booked out of there. She got kicked to the curb in about a block. I did slow the car down.

Man I hate the stupid ones. I went home and took a long bath in some pinesol disinfectant.

Trust your guts guys, and don't tap on the brakes unless it feels right. Exercise your right to do a 180 and walk away.

Watch your back

[Dexadrine]

There's also a place called the Lamplighter in St. Paul. In a seedy strip mall on Larpenteur Ave. at Rice St. I've never been there but I've heard it's higher-mileage than the clubs in DT Minneapolis.

The MP I was talking about, it's near the Embassy Suites hotel downtown Minneapoils on 7th. That places advertises a bunch in the City Pages too.

[Mozart]

Superman,

The best one is probably King of Diamonds in Inver Grove Heights. It may be a bit of a drive from where you're staying, but as far as I know, it's the only one that goes totally nude *and* serves alcohol.

If you do a google search, you should be able to find a website for the club that will give you more details.

[Superman8272]

Whats the best Strip club to go to around Minneapolis? What do they offer?

[Superman8272]

Visiting Minneapolis next week, I'm staying in the north suburbs near Maple Grove. Any MP's around there? If not, where? Looking for a good MP. As much info is appreciated.

Thanks

[Mozart]

Dexadrine,

Any more info on this MP you reffered to? After Minneapolis' finest shut down Yoshiko's, I thought we were all out of luck. Any names to mention to help get one in the door?

Any information would be appreciated.

[Superman8272]

Dexadrine,

I'll be traveling to Minneapolis next week; where is this MP you were talking about? How much is it there? Can I just walk in or do I need to call ahead?

Thanks

[Dexadrine]

There is a lot of action to be had in the TC area. Even if it is slightly more expensive than in other cities, it's still cheaper and easier to get laid for cash here than in Chicago or other places nearby. So it would be cool to see more posts, and maybe even work together to rate providers and drive down the costs. Even Madison, Wisconsin, which a smaller city where sex is more expensive and harder to come by, has a more active board.

There is a decent scene of hos who take out ads in the City Pages adult section, accessible online at tcuncovered.com. Going rate for FS is $, sometimes 1.25 if she is hot or young. Lots of them will ask for 1.5 or $$, and we should refuse to pay that in this city. If you call the entries at tcuncovered.com and offer .8 for FS or .6 for BJ, someone will accept.

Some tcuncovered.com ads are for independents but most are represented by pimps. Sometimes the indies are better but sometimes it doesn't make a difference.

There are a few ads for MPs on that site too, I think. As far as I know (and I haven't actually mongered in Mpls for several months) there aren't really any cheap MPs in town, and Kim Yi's on East Lake is a notorious ripoff (I have never been there). There is a decent MP on 7th just north of Portland downtown which isn't really cheap but is reasonably priced given that it has no real competition. It is open often and easy to get to if you're staying downtown; if you're a business traveler, have some cash and are looking for a convenient place to get off it would be perfect. The girls there are 7-9s in a selection of races. YMMV but a full menu is offered I believe. This place is run by a guy who seems like an sex industry veteran and probably has a lot of experience pimping. He seems intent on running a clean, honest establishment and I reccomend his place.

I have not seen many SWs in the cities, but I've seen some reports. Frankly picking up SWs kinda scares me anyways, I'd rather just jack off than have a smelly, unstable druggie in my car. But if there are other experiences speak up!

Of course, be safe and always wear a jacket.

[BobEastSide]

J Boy

The tantric folks I have tried have been in the Chicago and Madison areas. If you are still interested, send me a pm and I'll tell you what I know.

Bob.