Space Cadets

[VincentGambini]

Yes, of course LE wants to "attempt to gather evidence of intent" prior to making an arrest. That would obviously be true for any investigation for any crime, hobby related or otherwise. One must keep in mind though that what constitutes "evidence" will be different in every single case. People routinely believe every DUI will have video recordings and breath test results. That is absolutely not true. While I've never done a thorough review of that issue, I'd guess less than 50% (probably closer to 30%) of cases have both of those. Same goes for hobby related arrests, some will have incriminating text messages, some will not. I am personally aware of a case where an individual replied to an ad on STG, he texted the "provider" to inquire as to where she was located, an address, a time to meet and to let her know he had arrived at the location. He NEVER mentioned money, fees, costs, sex, nothing that would be considered incriminating. He went into the room and, again, mentioned nothing about sex or money. He was arrested and prosecuted. He received a plea to an amended charge, probation and fines. Rather than face the uncertainty of a trial, not to mention costs, possible incarceration and any public embarrassment, he accepted the offer and moved on. Additionally, LE is protected by qualified immunity, meaning that, so long as they reasonably acted within the scope of their official capacity, they cannot be sued. In the real life example I just detailed, had that person decided to sue (entering a plea aside) LE likely would be found to have acted reasonably within the scope of his official capacity and, in turn, been protected from a lawsuit. While my guess is he would have been found not guilty at a criminal trial, at the civil trial for the lawsuit against LE, the facts of posting the ad, the person replying to the ad and then meeting the "provider" at the hotel would almost certainly be sufficient for LE to prevail. With the lower burden of proof for a civil trial versus a criminal trial, the arrested individual likely loses the civil trial despite winning the criminal trial.

As to your comment of not being "unique in that a settlement for (your) wrongful arrest & legal fees" wouldn't prevent you from pursuing all legal remedies, the individual I detailed above was married, had high school age children and a fairly white collar occupation with a nice income. My belief is that those factors played into his decision to accept the plea offer to the lesser charge.

Qualified Immunity protects the individual officers from being sued personally not the department for wrongful arrest. So again. Your friend did nothing illegal & allowed himself to be bullied into pleading guilty to a crime that he didn't commit. Cops can arrest you illegally for anything in any circumstance since they are doing it illegally, following the law is no protection from an illegal arrest (hence what makes it illegal.) I actually once was arrested for drunk driving after refusing to do the field sobriety test & requesting a breathalyzer. As I was over 5 years sober at the time it was a test that I knew I would pass. The cop trying to be cute refused to do it and instead arrested me to take down to the station for a blood test which of course came back 0. 00%. He left so mad after I had been making fun of him for being dumb and even the other cops were chuckling at arresting a guy with a 5 year sober medallion in his pocket for drunk driving (then one of them gave me a ride back to my car.) So your premise that cops can just arrest you cause they want to like that cop did when he was staked outside the strip club looking to arrest drunk drivers but since I wasn't drunk driving then the charges were dropped and the cop was definitely going to be mocked for quite a while among his cop peers for that one.

It's unclear to me what point it was you intended to convey. In my post above (which you partially deleted) I stated that a civil lawsuit stemming from the detailed arrest would likely be unsuccessful and I stated that would be due to qualified immunity and the difference in the level of proof necessary to prevail. As to such a trial, I indicated the evidence would include the ad that had been posted, the person replying to that ad, continued communications and, ultimately, meeting the "provider" at the hotel. While such evidence may well be insufficient for a conviction at a criminal trial, I strongly suspect the outcome would be much different in a civil trial, the OJ Simpson case comes to mind. While you provided some detail as to a possible DUI arrest sometime ago, it's unclear if you were actually arrested, what with the comment of another officer taking you back to your car. Additionally, you did not offer any detail as to whether you initiated a civil lawsuit after your interaction with law enforcement.

Going back to my first post in this conversation, I stated that you were "mostly correct" in your comment of "don't do anything illegal" so as to avoid being arrested. You further stated that "escorting is totally legal" and "any business discussion" could be had "after you both have gotten naked / exposed" if that was what you were "so inclined" to do. If we're being honest, that's likely the exact intent for damn near every interaction described by every anonymous poster on this board, myself included. Of course we're looking to avoid arrest, of course we want to take steps to ensure that outcome, but, that act is precisely what we are "so inclined" to do. Hence the inability to prevail in a civil lawsuit. I'm personally unaware of any lawsuit for a false arrest with the facts we've been discussing; an ad on a site known for such transactions, a person replying to that ad, there being an ongoing discussion to set up a meeting, ultimately meeting the "provider" and being arrested, though without discussion as to sex and money. My guess is you would be hardpressed to find such a lawsuit, even harder to find one where the plaintiff prevailed.

[ThatBoatGuy]

So much drama. LOL.

Less fighting, more BJ's.

[BigStud47]

Looking at DocSters posts he has positive reviews about the same gals he trashes Willie for. You and BigStud should get married. Won't reply to flames just pointing out that hypocrisy thing.

Nope I have plenty from SA and wyp I get to play with, and no I won't promote them! Willie has said 20.

Times he's done, shit just two weeks ago he pm telling me I was correct about his girl Julie going down rabbit hole but will still see and promote her as well!

Cheers bs.

[UninhibitedFla]

I am glad someone said what a lot of us are thinking! Last year it was Avalon and Berlin, get to be like a broken record! All just to get your post count up!

Cheers,

DS.

Looking at DocSters posts he has positive reviews about the same gals he trashes Willie for. You and BigStud should get married. Won't reply to flames just pointing out that hypocrisy thing.

[BigStud47]

Thanks StymieChula for coming to my defense. Champions don't take criticism personally (not that I'm a champion in the slightest!) I just report and recommend my favorites to you guys and try and help. But, am I a "White Knight"? Probably, but because of my age I tend to get excited about these women because they have and some still continue to provide a great experience, usually free of drugs and drama and in a great setting for a fair price. Tired of my reviews and posts? That's okay because I'm resigning from the debating society and heading off the way of my heroes and mentors like Bonerific, Erickson73 and RoadWarrior2 K who helped me tremendously years ago when I was a babe in the woods and world of mongering and to whom I'm eternally grateful! I will just continue to see my favorites from time to time and as long as my health allows and junior still works and leave all the reviews and reporting to you younger guys. So, farewell, adieu and adios! You won't have Willie24 to kick around anymore! But, here's some pictures of my "old hags"! Too bad if you never had a chance to see any of them, they were and all the best over the last decade. Cheers Willie.

Only came out due to your boyfriend defending you!! You'll might be able to get a discount from Val I see she's in your neck of the woods Willie!

Bs.

[Willie24]

You guys are funny I guess cause your all so f kin stupid.

You guys knock Willie who is a Real contributor to this forum.

Willie don't go around attacking people if you disagree with him bigstud47 does.

Let me ask you guys a simple question can you respond to any post from bigdud47 ?? NOOO you can't.

Your forced to read his REPLY he don't have original post of his own you dumbass's.

Thanks StymieChula for coming to my defense. Champions don't take criticism personally (not that I'm a champion in the slightest!) I just report and recommend my favorites to you guys and try and help. But, am I a "White Knight"? Probably, but because of my age I tend to get excited about these women because they have and some still continue to provide a great experience, usually free of drugs and drama and in a great setting for a fair price. Tired of my reviews and posts? That's okay because I'm resigning from the debating society and heading off the way of my heroes and mentors like Bonerific, Erickson73 and RoadWarrior2 K who helped me tremendously years ago when I was a babe in the woods and world of mongering and to whom I'm eternally grateful! I will just continue to see my favorites from time to time and as long as my health allows and junior still works and leave all the reviews and reporting to you younger guys. So, farewell, adieu and adios! You won't have Willie24 to kick around anymore! But, here's some pictures of my "old hags"! Too bad if you never had a chance to see any of them, they were and all the best over the last decade. Cheers Willie.

[StymieChula]

I am glad someone said what a lot of us are thinking! Last year it was Avalon and Berlin, get to be like a broken record! All just to get your post count up!

Cheers,

DS.

You guys are funny I guess cause your all so f kin stupid.

You guys knock Willie who is a Real contributor to this forum.

Willie don't go around attacking people if you disagree with him bigstud47 does.

Let me ask you guys a simple question can you respond to any post from bigdud47 ?? NOOO you can't.

Your forced to read his REPLY he don't have original post of his own you dumbass's.

[AveImperator14]

Yes, of course LE wants to "attempt to gather evidence of intent" prior to making an arrest. That would obviously be true for any investigation for any crime, hobby related or otherwise. One must keep in mind though that what constitutes "evidence" will be different in every single case. People routinely believe every DUI will have video recordings and breath test results. That is absolutely not true. While I've never done a thorough review of that issue, I'd guess less than 50% (probably closer to 30%) of cases have both of those. Same goes for hobby related arrests, some will have incriminating text messages, some will not. I am personally aware of a case where an individual replied to an ad on STG, he texted the "provider" to inquire as to where she was located, an address, a time to meet and to let her know he had arrived at the location. He NEVER mentioned money, fees, costs, sex, nothing that would be considered incriminating. He went into the room and, again, mentioned nothing about sex or money. He was arrested and prosecuted. He received a plea to an amended charge, probation and fines. Rather than face the uncertainty of a trial, not to mention costs, possible incarceration and any public embarrassment, he accepted the offer and moved on.

Qualified Immunity protects the individual officers from being sued personally not the department for wrongful arrest. So again. Your friend did nothing illegal & allowed himself to be bullied into pleading guilty to a crime that he didn't commit. Cops can arrest you illegally for anything in any circumstance since they are doing it illegally, following the law is no protection from an illegal arrest (hence what makes it illegal.) I actually once was arrested for drunk driving after refusing to do the field sobriety test & requesting a breathalyzer. As I was over 5 years sober at the time it was a test that I knew I would pass. The cop trying to be cute refused to do it and instead arrested me to take down to the station for a blood test which of course came back 0. 00%. He left so mad after I had been making fun of him for being dumb and even the other cops were chuckling at arresting a guy with a 5 year sober medallion in his pocket for drunk driving (then one of them gave me a ride back to my car.) So your premise that cops can just arrest you cause they want to like that cop did when he was staked outside the strip club looking to arrest drunk drivers but since I wasn't drunk driving then the charges were dropped and the cop was definitely going to be mocked for quite a while among his cop peers for that one.

[BigStud47]

I am glad someone said what a lot of us are thinking! Last year it was Avalon and Berlin, get to be like a broken record! All just to get your post count up!.

Too bad others won't speak up! I'm not afraid to. Just like how Tdrag, oldguy222, and Asianflyer well like to tell providers shit about me. Boy the stories I have heard about Tdrag also from providers. Don't worry Tdrag you're blocked now. There my moles are out in open now!

Merry Christmas all.

Bs.

[VincentGambini]

Again in your hypothetical. There would be some attempt to gather evidence of Intent instead of just falsely arresting everyone they can in the hope that there are no lawsuits for false imprisonment in response for illegal arrests. I mean I understand that someone like me isn't the majority but I can't be unique in that a settlement for my wrongful arrest & legal fees for my lawyer in the criminal case isn't terrifying.

Yes, of course LE wants to "attempt to gather evidence of intent" prior to making an arrest. That would obviously be true for any investigation for any crime, hobby related or otherwise. One must keep in mind though that what constitutes "evidence" will be different in every single case. People routinely believe every DUI will have video recordings and breath test results. That is absolutely not true. While I've never done a thorough review of that issue, I'd guess less than 50% (probably closer to 30%) of cases have both of those. Same goes for hobby related arrests, some will have incriminating text messages, some will not. I am personally aware of a case where an individual replied to an ad on STG, he texted the "provider" to inquire as to where she was located, an address, a time to meet and to let her know he had arrived at the location. He NEVER mentioned money, fees, costs, sex, nothing that would be considered incriminating. He went into the room and, again, mentioned nothing about sex or money. He was arrested and prosecuted. He received a plea to an amended charge, probation and fines. Rather than face the uncertainty of a trial, not to mention costs, possible incarceration and any public embarrassment, he accepted the offer and moved on. Additionally, LE is protected by qualified immunity, meaning that, so long as they reasonably acted within the scope of their official capacity, they cannot be sued. In the real life example I just detailed, had that person decided to sue (entering a plea aside) LE likely would be found to have acted reasonably within the scope of his official capacity and, in turn, been protected from a lawsuit. While my guess is he would have been found not guilty at a criminal trial, at the civil trial for the lawsuit against LE, the facts of posting the ad, the person replying to the ad and then meeting the "provider" at the hotel would almost certainly be sufficient for LE to prevail. With the lower burden of proof for a civil trial versus a criminal trial, the arrested individual likely loses the civil trial despite winning the criminal trial.

As to your comment of not being "unique in that a settlement for (your) wrongful arrest & legal fees" wouldn't prevent you from pursuing all legal remedies, the individual I detailed above was married, had high school age children and a fairly white collar occupation with a nice income. My belief is that those factors played into his decision to accept the plea offer to the lesser charge.

[DocSter]

Wait didn't I hear a rumor that high old dollar Vivian wants to see your drivers license? Oh hell no. Willie please stop white knighting.

Bs.

And you don't? That's okay, you work your side of the street and I will work mine! Cheers.

Willie no where and I mean NO WHERE near as like you do, almost every post you put up you write the same damn shit. Lots of guys are tired of reading the same shit over and over. I mean when we see your name we don't even waste our time. And also the fact that some post about Michelle and what you know you have to jump.

In about your old hag girlfriends!! Get back with Julie she needs you really bad!

Cheers to old Willie and hags.

I am glad someone said what a lot of us are thinking! Last year it was Avalon and Berlin, get to be like a broken record! All just to get your post count up!

Cheers,

DS.

[AveImperator14]

In theory, you are correct. The reality though is often quite different. First, as I stated previously, if you merely follow through and show up at the location of the sting, there is a high probability you will be arrested. A big part of the reason for that as the investment in setting up the sting, by that time, LE has put together an ad, posted it on a website, set up the location, placed multiple officers there, located a UC for the job, got her up to speed on the operation and put it all in motion. There's a ton of time and effort put into that. Then, if they let someone walk away, it would be very easy for that person to then post on whatever websites and otherwise alert other possible targets to the sting. LE isn't going to let that happen. Another problem is that, when faced with any type of prostitution charge, most defendants will gladly accept some reasonable plea bargain over going to trial. Trials are very public things, Florida courtrooms are wide open, allowing anyone and everyone to come in. News media may be present. Testimony would include how the defendant allegedly engaged in the illegal act of offering money for sexual services. Stated differently, it ain't fun for the accused! Rather than go through that, many will gladly accept a plea offer that includes not much more than probation and fines, and hopefully a reduced charge. Then, once that person has entered a plea, any "action () against the department" has been eliminated, you won't be successful suing LE if you entered a plea to some offense that came from the arrest, even if the charge is reduced or modified. And, of course, the public embarrassment factor comes into play again as well..

Again in your hypothetical. There would be some attempt to gather evidence of Intent instead of just falsely arresting everyone they can in the hope that there are no lawsuits for false imprisonment in response for illegal arrests. I mean I understand that someone like me isn't the majority but I can't be unique in that a settlement for my wrongful arrest & legal fees for my lawyer in the criminal case isn't terrifying.

[VincentGambini]

It's really easy. Just don't do anything illegal. We are all upstanding law abiding characters on this board. Prostitution is the selling of services for a specific price which is illegal, escorting is totally legal which is the selling of time not services. Don't talk about specific services for specific prices. You can handle any business discussion like that after you both have gotten naked / exposed, if you were so inclined.

AI is mostly correct, though not entirely so. As he correctly pointed out, prostitution is illegal in Florida, prostitution being defined as the giving or receiving of the body for sexual activity for hire, stated more succinctly, an exchange of money for sexual favors. However, stating "don't do anything illegal" is a bit too simplistic. I say this as I am personally aware of situations where both a monger and a provider were arrested after having done nothing illegal. As has been stated on the forum before, if you merely show up at the site of a sting, you will almost certainly be arrested, from the perspective of LE, they've got too much invested to simply let you walk.

My point being that if there was a sting trying to get people to demonstrate Intent to commit a crime. Then the provider will be sending you incriminating messages to gather that proof. Just as it's our responsibility to be vague our speech / words then the correlation is if the other person isn't being vague as well which would be in her best interest, that's a red flag. The very evidence that a crime is intended to be committed is what that would be trying to gained from that hypothetical message exchange. Setting up stings that lead to lots of false arrests which are legally actionable against the department instead of convictions for the the office are bad for all parties involved.

In theory, you are correct. The reality though is often quite different. First, as I stated previously, if you merely follow through and show up at the location of the sting, there is a high probability you will be arrested. A big part of the reason for that as the investment in setting up the sting, by that time, LE has put together an ad, posted it on a website, set up the location, placed multiple officers there, located a UC for the job, got her up to speed on the operation and put it all in motion. There's a ton of time and effort put into that. Then, if they let someone walk away, it would be very easy for that person to then post on whatever websites and otherwise alert other possible targets to the sting. LE isn't going to let that happen. Another problem is that, when faced with any type of prostitution charge, most defendants will gladly accept some reasonable plea bargain over going to trial. Trials are very public things, Florida courtrooms are wide open, allowing anyone and everyone to come in. News media may be present. Testimony would include how the defendant allegedly engaged in the illegal act of offering money for sexual services. Stated differently, it ain't fun for the accused! Rather than go through that, many will gladly accept a plea offer that includes not much more than probation and fines, and hopefully a reduced charge. Then, once that person has entered a plea, any "action () against the department" has been eliminated, you won't be successful suing LE if you entered a plea to some offense that came from the arrest, even if the charge is reduced or modified. And, of course, the public embarrassment factor comes into play again as well.

Getting back to the original point, yes, certainly prudent to say "don't do anything illegal" in these situations. My point was simply that merely responding to any of the ads in the sites we are all familiar with puts you at risk. Not putting anything incriminating in a text is absolutely a wise thing to do, I'm a big proponent of that myself. So too is being on these forums and educating yourself on the providers out there. That said, much like one puts himself at risk for a DUI arrest by drinking any amount of alcohol and driving a car, so too does one put himself at risk by responding to any ads out there, whether your text messages are innocuous or not. For anyone that wants a totally safe hobby, perhaps consider quilting.

[BigStud47]

Here you go I bet she's saying she doesn't do drugs!

Bs.

Well she maybe dry now as her dealer was busted last week unless she found another fentanyl dealer to offer her self to for product.

Bs.

[BigStud47]

Wait didn't I hear a rumor that high old dollar Vivian wants to see your drivers license? Oh hell no. Willie please stop white knighting.

Bs.

And you don't? That's okay, you work your side of the street and I will work mine! Cheers.

Willie no where and I mean NO WHERE near as like you do, almost every post you put up you write the same damn shit. Lots of guys are tired of reading the same shit over and over. I mean when we see your name we don't even waste our time. And also the fact that some post about Michelle and what you know you have to jump.

In about your old hag girlfriends!! Get back with Julie she needs you really bad!

Cheers to old Willie and hags.