Legal Discussions / Raids / Busts

[Varoom]

Illustration:

Page 1, last line of a police report, at the bottom of the page:

"The defendant admitted firing his weapon at the decedent"

(continued to the top of page 2)

"in self defense."

Maybe I'm the only one troubled by this.

And here I didn't even realize that LE had to use deadly force to bring these five criminals to justice. LOL.

Just kiddding of course; good point on the illustration, as usual there Golfcart.

To the point of posting only pg 1 of a multi page report, maybe the poster was attempting to protect the identifty of his source that provided the report, or some other reason for not posting more than what was seen by his scan. Just a thought, but I suppose the jbg can clear that up, rather me or others speculating on it.

[Golfcart]

I have no stake in the 1501 situation or debate, but I read and I don't understand why anyone with an official document they thought important to prove a point would post only a part of a page and not the entire page, and in the situation of a multi-page document why they would not post all the pages.

The point they make in the part they post could be undermined by what appears in the remainder they do not post.

Illustration:
Page 1, last line of a police report, at the bottom of the page:
"The defendant admitted firing his weapon at the decedent"
(continued to the top of page 2)
"in self defense."

Maybe I'm the only one troubled by this.

[WildRider]

John, I think your best positioning in getting a bad officer off the force is to have someone go to IA. There are reasons officers can break the law. How would a speeder ever be caught if an officer didn't break the speed limit? Lets say an officer reports he went 100mph to catch up to a speeder to pull them over. That might sound like the officer had a necessity to to 100 until someone reported to IA that they witnessed the pursuit in a school zone marked 25mph and the speeder was doing about 30mph. So there was no necessity to do 100mph. As far as AI is concerned the officer has a duty to perform work properly. He / she should not be negligent in their actions. In this case can it be proven that the officer was in full control and was directly responsible for a bad act. While being arrested did the suspect become victimized by the arresting officer. Would any other officer do the same to enforce the law if they were making an arrest? IA will work the case by looking at these areas and it may result in the officer facing charges. At that time the media may take interest on behalf of the community. Out community does want fair and accurate enforcement.

WR

[Legal Eagle]

Thanks for your response, Jim. The comparison with the other report in your possession is definitely helpful. It explains several of what appeared to be logical discrepancies in the report. The complete original report should answer any remaining questions. It should also confirm the information reflected in the computer and video records seized during the police investigation. This is the only source which reflects all the relevant information upon which to form an objective opinion about this case.

As for the other "gentleman" participating in this discussion, you indicated that you and I had nothing further to discuss. You're correct about at least one fact.

[Johnballgame]

I have a police report right in front of me (not for 1501 but on another case). The "run" time is in 24 hr time at the top of the page and then time in the content of the report is on a 12 hr clock just as this copy is so apparently that is standard for a police report. Thus John's copy could be legit.

Additionally the paper is crumpled probably because he obtained a copy and then he folded it and put it in his pocket, because he probably didn't know he was going to be asked to scan it and show it to you on this site. This to me, makes it seem more like a legit copy. If I was going to,"alter" a copy by retyping it and posting it on here, it wouldn't be crumpled. Now fellows as you can see by the repeated requests on here from members, we are being asked to move this to a thread. I have created a thread that shows near the bottom of live threads on the home page. It is tltled "Legal Discussions". Join me down there from now on, will you?

I can promise this document was obtained from and written by jeffersonville and indy police on what happened during the session, legal you really need to man / woman up and accept some people knew more than you and your informants werent totally truthful. As far as wrinkled paper, yes it has been folded for a week sitting in a bowl at my house, didn't think I would have to defend the truth on here, but after being called out and pretty much called a liar, I opened it and scanned it just to shut legal up. But if you go back, my whole reason I brought this up wasnt to have a debate on what happened, it was to ask lawyers / or people who know more than I do, can this officer legally due this and can he be held responsible for his actions? I can't believe an officer can legally due this without any consequences and if he can legally, I want to know morally / ethically what does his superiors, community, family think about his actions? I thought years ago the officers in lmpd were given reprimands and suspensions for theses same actions, anyone with info or opinion, I would like to hear.

[Bon Denver]

Looking at the document more closely, I do have a couple of questions that some of you may be able to answer.

1. The top-left hand corner contains a date and time reference for the creation of the report. That is standard information for law enforcement documents. The date and time reference is reflected using a 24-hour clock: also stand practice. Why then does the date and time references in the body of the report appear in 12-hour clock format?

2. The document itself appears to have been folded, crinkled or crumpled in some manner. I mentioned this earlier because it would not be consistent with a document maintained in a public record for review. The text on the document, however, appears to "FLOAT" above the page. If you look along the left-hand margin, the border of the text is nearly surveyor-line straight despite the appearance of wrinkles along the left side of the page. I could be wrong about this, so I wondered if anyone else is seeing this on their computer rendition of the document.

3. Finally, as Golfcart points out, this is apparently a portion of a report. The problem, among others, is that the document itself contains no address, law enforcement subdivision or contact information along its caption at the top. If it is a legitimate police report, this would be the first such police report compiled in this fashion that I have ever seen.

Again, John, if this information proves accurate you will hear nothing other than a formal apology. I am, respectfully, not persuaded at this point. I will confirm and offer you the appropriate response once I am satisfied either way.

I have a police report right in front of me (not for 1501 but on another case). The "run" time is in 24 hr time at the top of the page and then time in the content of the report is on a 12 hr clock just as this copy is so apparently that is standard for a police report. Thus John's copy could be legit.

Additionally the paper is crumpled probably because he obtained a copy and then he folded it and put it in his pocket, because he probably didn't know he was going to be asked to scan it and show it to you on this site. This to me, makes it seem more like a legit copy. If I was going to,"alter" a copy by retyping it and posting it on here, it wouldn't be crumpled. Now fellows as you can see by the repeated requests on here from members, we are being asked to move this to a thread. I have created a thread that shows near the bottom of live threads on the home page. It is tltled "Legal Discussions". Join me down there from now on, will you?

[WildRider]

This is a much better place to get up to speed on these three particulars that needed a separate heading. I am glad this opened up because I have had questions in the past that fell into this area. While I never visited 1501 I would think a simple denial of ever being present would stop any further questions from LEO. I have not known anyone to be questioned about being with a provider after leaving left the scene and the trail is cold.

WR

[Kyowa]

Since the recent raid of My1501 and other local busts have become such a huge discussion among some members here and has been clogging up our forum for several weeks ongoing now and and many have requested we stop or take it to a new thread, I started this one. Those interested can continue the discussion here and I'm certain My1501 won't be the last so now interested parties can come here to discuss recent busts, news articles/events, etc in relation to our hobby. Thanks in advance!

I like it just fine: really the "busts / stings / raids / legal_issues" forum should be a regular category for every city; or better still: one NATIONWIDE forum on the "Forum's\Front_Page" As some other boards do for info about l' e' o's op's anywhere in the nation! There especially needs to be some way to educate our fellow hobbyists about what the legal definitions & legal differences are between accusation\allegation, & evidence\"proof" when it comes to both arrests_&_charges against hobbyists or providers, or to l' e' o's conduct of undercover arrests!

[Bon Denver]

Since the recent raid of My1501 and other local busts have become such a huge discussion among some members here and has been clogging up our forum for several weeks ongoing now and and many have requested we stop or take it to a new thread, I started this one.

Those interested can continue the discussion here and I'm certain My1501 won't be the last so now interested parties can come here to discuss recent busts, news articles/events, etc in relation to our hobby

*Dear Jackson, if this category name is not a good one, please feel free to edit mine. Thanks in advance!