My Suggestions. Rules For BackPage
Look, bottom line is that paying for a rubdown, dancing, stripping or some other service is NOT illegal. You can pay a girl to read Emily Dickinson to you if you want. If that heats you up. If you want to talk to all of your potential dates about illegal things that include "sex acts for money," then hey, have at it! Yeah, in those cases, you would have said whatever LE needs you to say in order to make an arrest, so look to end up on the evening news. But if you have an agreement with your date for a rub or dancing then what happens after that might be hard to prove was paid for.
Not that I have omnipotent observations but. Me thinks the decoy / cop is going to try to get you to say some form of "sex for money" in their presence. Often there are two girls in the room which IMHO is a red flag for a couple of reasons. Also assume that the room is bugged. Have not seen cases where phone conversations or emails were used as the "proof" for solicitation without the dude offering "sex for money" in person. Connecting a 'voice on a phone,' a phone number or emails with the live person standing in the room would require the kind of time (warrants, subpoena) that just aren't worth it for a misdemeanor. But hey, call or text them from your cell phone registered in your name and by all means carry that phone into the date! NOT!
So here are my 22 Rules for Dating off BP? Can you take short cuts from all this work? Sure and you can become a statistic too.
1) Look at the pics. If it is too good to be true (TGTBT), then it probably is. Top pros with websites and Eros level prices are usually the exception.
2) Check out the images. Use Tineye or Google Image.
3) What do the pictures tell you? Traveler? Regular poster? Fake pictures?
4) Fake pictures are ones that are borrowed from another website. Fake pics are also pro level shots "altered" to look amateur like. If you can't tell the difference. Back off and watch the posts for 3-months until your eye is trained.
5) Travelers, while they maybe legit and good dates can tend to have low incentive to provide a great date under the hit & run philosophy. If your not looking for repeat clients because your gone in a week, then level of service isn't of concern. Also watch for Vegas and NV area codes! You want to avoid the hardcore pro girls who know how to separate you from your hard earned cash.
6) Check the girl's number with a search engine or one of the Escort Phone number search sites. Ibid all of the above.
7) Check for reviews of the girl on USA, TER or other review type sites.
8) NEVER call a potential date from your regular cell phone that has your name, address, etc, attached to it!
8) Have a Google Voice account set up. USE IT!
9) Use a burner or hobby phone with the GV.
10) Don't buy a hobby phone with a credit card, ATM card or debit card, don't set it up with your name, address, etc.
11) When contacting the girl, be polite, know your spending limits.
12) Ask the girl about the value of her time for a massage, rubdown, dancing or reading poetry to you!
13) NEVER ask about specific acts and / or the cost of such.
14) Any girl that says it is $100 for a s*ck & f*ck is breaking the law and is either a cop or is incredibly ignorant. I'd avoid both.
15) If meeting a girl at a hotel / motel get there well in advance and do some recon. See a bunch of unmarked cars in the lot? Any vans with tinted windows and people inside? Any buses or meat packing style trucks around? When approaching the room what does one hear in the hallway from the other rooms. Bunch of cops shooting the breeze, interrogating the last suspect? What happens if you walk past the door and return a few minutes later?
16) When entering the room. Is there more than one girl there? Better ask about that right away. Consider leaving.
17) Check the rest of the room or suite for other people. More than just the girl is a red flag. Check for an unlocked adjoining door.
18) When closing the door, add the security chain or throw the safety bar. Can't imagine a cop allowing them self to be cut-off from outside help like that.
19) Ask to do the cop check thing and do a verbal play-by-play! Say, "Oh yer pussy feels so wet", or "Oh your hand on my hard di*ck feels nice!" If the prosecutor is going to use a tape to nab you, might as well get embarrassing evidence included.
20) Never take anything into the date that you don't want to loose or have used against you. Suggest carrying just the Poetry Reading Fee, your copy of Emily Dickinson and a car key. Period. No cell phones, no wads of cash, no expensive jewelry, no high-priced watches, etc.
21) NEVER TALK SEX FOR MONEY! Never hand the money to the girl! Lay it on a table, TV, counter, etc, away from the girl with NO comment. You can look at it, just do not talk about it. Some slick ways to do this is have it in an envelop with the words, "fee for reading poetry" written on it. You can use the bathroom and leave it in there and then ask the girl to check something in the bathroom for you.
22) If she makes statements about sex for money, before she is fully naked and holding yer Johnson, say "I have no idea what your talking about, I came for a rub, dancing, poetry reading and turn and leave.
Can you follow all of these rules and still get arrested? Sure. Anything can happen. But if you follow these rules the chances of anything sticking are pretty darn slim.
Play safe, play knowledgeable.
Happy hunting!
[i]these are just the best I could come up with. I hope others with more experience will add to the list[/i]
Interesting Points Added. Acceptable Risk and Risk Management
Thanks to those who have posted so far!
I think what this demonstrates is that there are various ways to manage hobbying risk and everyone has their own methods and levels of what constitutes "acceptable risk. ".
For example, sticking with girls that are only well reviewed certainly is a way to reduce risk. Girls that are "in business" and value their reputation are less likely to provide a bad date or run a rip-off scheme. Of course, like anything it isn't 100% as everyone has a bad day and often styles don't match, so YMMV. However, someone has to be "first" with a new or unreviewed girl, so that presents higher levels of risk. Be thankful, grateful & complimentary to the dudes who step up to the plate and go "first!" They have higher risk tolerance or employ additional measures to manage that risk.
But looking for a girl's posts elsewhere and comparing rates is an excellent idea! This hobby is not like buying fruit at a fruit stand. One can usually negotiate the price here. It is the dudes that pay the first (High?) price that drives the curve up. It never hurts to ask politely if she will take XX off her price (10%-20%) especially if she is WAY above others on BP and not as attractive. Paying list is crazy, so good suggestion to look for lower prices elsewhere- usually means the price is "fluid. ".
Important point - To manage risk at an incall date make sure one scopes out the lot and other lots visible to it, before making a move to the room! This means [b]get to the date early[/b] enough to look around as much as needed. Recon, recon, recon! And of course in such a higher risk situation, no cell phone, GV number and don't talk $$ for sex.
But another point is correct, in most jurisdictions, solicitation is a misdemeanor and thus not worthy of the expenditure of large amounts unless they can demonstrate several busts. So yeah, monger stings are incall dates. [i]{Also, they like to have Media tag along for the deterrence this provides. }[/i] Avoiding incalls altogether is one method of risk management. Techniques discussed here, provide alternative methods of risk management. Doing nothing suggested and bumbling along, whether consciously or not, is of course another type of decision of how to manage risk.
I agree with paying heed to area codes as a way to I'd out of towners. However, this is something that may require some rethink in the future. First with cell phones being ubiquitous and portability of numbers being the rule (law?) I have found many girls, who moved legitimately to an area, kept their out of town phone number. Also with the spread of Google Voice and cellphone apps, it is easy for a traveling girl to post a number that looks local. So a local number is no indication she isn't a traveler. This is where further investigation of the number and the girl comes in handy.
As far as keys go - YES! I would take the car key with me to the room, but NOT house, office or other keys. [i]Just saw a report from a dude where the pimp came in the room during the date and the girl pushed him into the bathroom to hide while the money was exchanged, So his pants and other valuables were there where the pimp could have riffled through them.[/i] I never take the house keys with me. Also, I'm not driving at the point I'm headed to her room and thus don't need a wallet. I do like the magnetic key holder idea as long as no one sees you placing it. So that is a good way to manage risk. Just take the poetry reading fee with you and nothing else!
So good suggestions on methods of managing risk in the hobby!
[I]Wonder if there are more out there?[/I]
Thread is about Learning to Manage Risk
[QUOTE=Cheech1;2869315]I think that incalls are just too risky unless it is with a provider you know and trust thru having been with her multiple times. Any incall location can be set up by the cops to snag mongers easily with today's technology. IMHO, a motel room at $50 to $70 dollars is available pretty much any time across the country, and renting your own room is in every case going to be safer than a girl's incall. In fact, no undercover cop is going to let you pick her up somewhere and take her for a ride to a motel. And if you do pick up a girl with a room in mind and she starts asking you about money for services before she is in the car and you are rolling well away from the pick up spot, then what you have is a huge red flag waving in your face. The answer to such questions is "We are just going to find a nice place to have a cup of joe," and keep driving. If you pick up a girl to drive to a place, make sure you watch your 6, change direction and watch for any cars that seem to be following. Again, it would be, I think, extremely rare for a sting group to allow their bait to be drivin 100 yards down the road for anything. So the expense of a motel room is again I think well worth the decrease in risk. Lawyers are a lot more than $70.00.
Cheech.[/QUOTE]Yes, you are correct as with Street Walkers, very few LE decoys are going to get in your car and loose control over their person by doing so. So that is correct.
But this thread is about techniques and ideas of how to reduce the risks associated with dating off BP which inevitably involves going to a girl's hotel room. IF one follows the steps laid out here, then they have minimized the risk of an arrest. Where is the risk if you have NOT discussed sex acts for money and have asked for a legitimate service like massage, dancing, or Poetry Reading?
Then again, why couldn't one pick up the girl, under the pretense of going to a motel, drive her around the block and then return to HER motel room? Wouldn't that remove the risk, using your theory that no LE decoy is going to get into your car?
Just avoiding incall is one way to manage risk, hopefully one can learn other methods or techniques from this thread for managing risk.